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GOD,GENESIS, THE BIG BANG THEORY.

BLACK SPIRITUAL OPINION

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#1 boitumelo

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 01:38 PM

ON TV,SCIENTIST WERE TALKING.DID GOD CREATE THE HEAVENS AND EARTH OR WAS IT THE BIG BANG THEORY.THE BIG BANG THEORY, THE UNIVERSE APPEARED FROM NOWHERE BILLIONS OF YEARS AGO...GENESIS 1. 1-25.GOD SAID LET US MAKE MANKIND IN OUR IMAGE SO HE MAY RULE OVER THE FISH, BIRDS, LIVESTOCK AND WILD ANIMALS, -MILLIONS OF YEARS AGO DINOSAURS ROAMED THE EARTH, DINOSAURS WERE NOT ON NOAH'S ARK,DESCENDANTS OF DINOSAURS BIRDS AND CROCODILES WERE THEY, ON THE ARK/ -HOW,GOD CREATE THE ANIMALS BIRDS AND CROCODILES,ALLIGATORS,,WHEN DID DINOSAURS APPEAR,SCIENTIST MILLIONS OF YEARS AGO..THERE ARE INCLUDING ANIMALS,,THOSE VERTEBRATE,INVERTEBRATE,PLANTS AND OTHERS ,OVER A MILLION SPECIES OF ANIMALS NOAH HAD TWO OF EVERY ANIMAL ON THE ARK..NOAH MUST HAVE BUILT ARK BACK THEN THAT EQUALS TODAY'S, LUXURY CRUISE SHIPS ....... , ,

#2 Troy

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 08:58 PM

If you are trying to change the mind of a Christian you are wasting your time.
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#3 Cynique

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 01:20 AM

I agree.Troy. Christianity is the most entrenched cult in the world. I've never found any reason to disagree with the statement that religion is the opiate of the masses. <_<

#4 anika99

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 10:41 AM

It may be opiate for some and liberation for others.

#5 Cynique

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 03:49 PM

Just for the sake of argument, what does religion liberate you from? You can't be a free-thinker if you embrace Christianity. You have to be obedient and obey what the interpreters of the bible, - a combination almanac, historical chronicle, self-help manual, infused with meta-physical mysticism and Egyptian and Greek mythology, all rolled into one, - declare as the gospel.

Moreover, in order to hope for redemption and eternal life, you have to be enslaved to the idea that you are not entitled to any blessings unless you worship and adore a vengeful, petty, jealous old man in the sky and indulge his suicidal, multiple personality disorder by accepting that the son, - who is really him - is your savior since he was crucified for the sins which Man comitted through no fault of his own because his creator screwed up when he made him imperfect. And just for good measure if you're Catholic, you have to bring a Jewish virgin into the mix and designate her as an arbitrator between you and her son.

You also have to believe that any one who disputes all of this is doing the work of Satan, - a bad ol devil who seems to be more powerful than the Almighty.

But, I guess some people do consider Blind Faith liberating. Others might find it stifling.

#6 anika99

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 04:36 PM

I am not a Christian but i do know of sincere people of different faiths.And some have talked about how their faith have given them strength and change their life around for the better.We hear so much about the Eddie Longs and Clefo Dollars,we forget about the genuine people of faith.But everyone is entitled to their opinion.

#7 Cynique

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 11:20 PM

Yep. Whatever floats your boat.

#8 Troy

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 07:27 AM

Cynique, I guess that is the bottom line, whatever floats your boat and gets you through this thing called life.

Anika99, how do you feel about Cynique's point, "You can't be a free-thinker if you embrace Christianity"?

You can't be a Christian and question the faith's most basic tenets. People who are not Christian would find that to be the exact opposite of "liberating".

As an aside, free thinkers recognize the Eddies Longs of the world for what they are. It is the rest of the folks that give me cause for concern...
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#9 anika99

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 07:51 AM

Oh i believe many people recognize Eddie Long for what he is.I heard his church is like a ghost town now.

I feel one can be a person of faith and and question things...i think we all do that.There are people who have their heads in the sand but that can include the freethinkers too.Like i don't trust Obama.I feel he answer to others over him.Some black people you can't say anything bad about Obama simply because of his color.And they will accuse you of self-hatred.So i usually keep my mouth shut about Obama.

It has become popular to knock religion and and blame it for everything.We forget about the foodbanks,free clinics,help with other necessities that many people of faith[Christians,Muslims,etc.]provides for less fortunate in every state.

People can misuse anything...blame those people for their sick choices.And stop supporting them.Not throw the baby out with the bath water.Just saying.

#10 Troy

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Posted 24 November 2011 - 10:50 AM

Anika99 I fundamentally agree with you.

Consider your Obama argument for a moment. Speaking critically about Obama to many, Black folks, as you know, is like speaking critically about Jesus to a Christian. You can't reason with a rabid Obama supporter any more than you can reason with a Christian about their religion.

I suspect there is a very high correlation between those who are Black and Christian and those who are fanatical Obama supporters. If this is true I suspect the reason boils down to the individuals ability to think freely -- the ability to question themselves, what they are told, to have an open mind and a willingness to consider various view points and information...

I could use your religion argument against your being critical of Obama:

"It has become popular to knock Obama and and blame him for everything.We forget about the community organizing, lack of republican support, health care reform, and other necessities that many people of that he provided for less fortunate in every state."
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#11 anika99

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Posted 24 November 2011 - 02:59 PM

Troy i respect the good Obama has done...but he have not kept certain promises...but i feel he is limited to what he can do anyway.He is just a figurehead,there are others running the show.My opinion.

#12 sad2say

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Posted 25 November 2011 - 01:00 AM

Let me guess boitumelo, did you get the idea of this thread from the previous episode of curiosity on discover channel with their episode "DID GOD CREATE THE UNIVERSE?" It was a very good episode along with the commentaries of Stephen Hawking himself. That guy's really amazing.

#13 Troy

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Posted 25 November 2011 - 01:22 PM

Anika I don't disagree with you.

My point is that the same "reasoning" Christians use to dispatch those who'd question any aspect of the religion is the same some Black folks use to dismiss other Blacks critical of Obama.
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#14 ironsmith

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Posted 29 November 2011 - 11:00 PM

Hi, I am new here and I find this topic very interesting. In my opinion and knowledge the big bang is supported by evidence, and the creation story was made up by Shepherds. You might as well use your history book to prove Harry Potter is real. Just because London exists doesn't mean magic does too - and the same here, just because they might have a few things in common certainly doesn't mean creation is true. Well I'm not against where your faith is, I am a Christian too but this things will not make me convert to other religion nor destroy my Christianity.

#15 Cynique

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Posted 01 December 2011 - 01:44 AM

I find it interesting that you have such a perceptive view of the fallacies of Christianity yet you refer to yourself as a Christian. But I suspect this is not uncommon among the followers of Jesus. It's so much easier to just go along with religion. It's as good a way as any to envision the awesome power of the universe. Filtering Life's mysteries through the message of the bible apparently satisfies and comforts people. Anything to reinforce the hope for eternal life. -_-

#16 ironsmith

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Posted 02 December 2011 - 07:20 AM

I do support bigbang theory, but it doesn't mean my faith and beliefs aren't on God. Logically the bang had to come from somewhere, something doesn't come out of nothing. So in reference to my recent post I still believe in God and with my Christianity through my heart, but through intelligence, bigbang would be appropriate for as it has proof and evidence.

Am I confusing?

#17 Cynique

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Posted 02 December 2011 - 11:50 AM

Believing that god is the end-all, be-all force of the universe is one thing; believing that god is a person who impregnated a Jewish virgin who gave birth to Jesus Christ who is the path to life after death, - which is the core belief of the Christian religion, - is another thing.

Obviously, I prefer the first version. But Christians, in all of their humble arrogance believe the god can't be separated from their religion.

#18 careycarey

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Posted 04 December 2011 - 07:44 AM

It's a fool's errand to argue with those whose sole purpose is to convince others that their faith, religion and beliefs are wrong. That problem is complicated in a forum such as this because as noted in this discussion, the naysayers and doubt makers utter claims and opinions that are simply not true, and they're frequently extremely ambiguous. In essence, they usher in a ball of confusion and cloud the central issue - sometimes purposely, sometimes unconsciously. Consequently, I have to say I totally agree with anika99 and I understanding exactly what she is saying. I mean, in essence, I believe she is saying that a person will "get" what they are looking for. Think about that. If a person wishes to find alleged "errors", missteps and/or "misconduct" in any person, place or thing, they will most assuredly find it. That includes your lover, mother, father, sisters and brothers. And, your boss, neighbors, neighborhood, and what's playing on your TV screen.


On the other hand, there's peace and comfort in having a "THOUGH" faith, not an "IF" faith. In the end, it's not about Heaven & Hell, nor is it about who is right and who is wrong. It's about doing "right" solely because it's right to do right. Hey, I do know this, I'd rather be around individuals who have a faith and belief in solid moral principals, than those who have no faith at all. And thus, they might fall for anything, and take you with them. I also know those who knock the Bible are the ones who have never read the entire Bible. They show their hold card because in the Bible much of the information is a guide to simply being a better person. There's also illustrations and examples on how others have coped with life's many issues, i.e, depression, infidelity, bordom, loneliness, lose of a love one, sex, death, ect. Again, if they've read the Bible, they would not spend so much time trying to convince others that the words within it are not to be believed. In short, on the most elementary level, what's wrong with the 10 commandments? One does not have to consider themselves a "Christian" to believe in those 10 principles - do they? That reminds me, who among the nay say crowd has read the book of Solomon? Heck, who has read Psalms?

#19 Troy

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Posted 04 December 2011 - 08:21 AM

What's up Carey? On this Sunday morning as i write this my wife shortly be rising and preparing to go to church. Occasionally I join her or sometimes my mom, not so much for me, but for them.

I've not read the entire Bible, cover to cover, but I neither has many church going Christians. I have read Psalms, the 10 commandments, Genesis, Revelations, and a good chuck of the rest of Good Book. However, I'm not sure why you use reading the Bible as requirement for being a detractor of the religion. Indeed for the majority of time that Christianity has existed most of it's adherents were illiterate.

In reality many of the Bible's detractors or non-adherents have read not one but several versions of the Bible. Louis Farrakhan, for example, knows the bible better than most.

Of course there is nothing "wrong" with the 10 commandments. But when you have most right wing of Christians, who support wars on several fronts, have to say about thou shall not kill? Of course we could go on and on...

But as my very first post indicates, I agree with you it is a "fool's errand..."

Ironsmith, yeah that does sound confusing (but honest), because the beliefs are incompatible. Perhaps this is why so many Christians are either fighting creationism or trying to modify the religion to accommodate (evolution, homosexuality, etc).

I don't think the Big Bang theory, and it is still a theory, can be used as evidence to prove of disprove a God. Because the next logical question would be what was before the big bang? Then you are left to infinitely regress...

There are some things man is incapable of comprehending, the nature of the universe is certainly one of them. Read one of those books on quantum theory to really get you head twisted :o

Perhaps this is where faith come in.
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#20 Cynique

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Posted 04 December 2011 - 03:19 PM

Not surprising, our ol sermonizing Carey comes down from his mountain to voice what he thinks is some kind of a revelation. Puleeze.The idea that the 10 commandments are coping mechanisms is a “given“, which is why these caveats, along with the golden rule of “doing unto others as you would have them do unto you“, have their counterparts in ALL ancient philosophies and religions. Helloooo.

Steeped in all of his holier-than-thou delusions, Carey begrudges people their right to acknowledge a god-force without putting it in the context of religion, and the idea that they can be humanitarians without ever having cracked the bible. Or does it seem to occur to him that using the bible as an infallible reference does not wash with people who question the intent and authenticity of those who cobbled this document together, co-opting parables and folk lore from the “pagan” religions that preceded Christianity, incorporating the whims of drunk monks who in their hand-written chronicles were free to distort and misinterprete, not to mention how much else was lost in the translation. A remarkable book? Yes. The gospel? Debateable.

Predictably, Carey resorts to his usual habit of labeling people, calling anybody who doesn’t agree with him a “naysayer”, totally overlooking the fact that EVERYBODY on this thread agreed that people are entitled to embrace whatever provides them with peace and comfort, which in America is the Christian-Judeo religion. NOBODY tried to convince Christians that their beliefs were wrong. That is the real fool's errand.

Christians are constantly proselytizing their dogma, always trying to convert others, always claiming god is on their side, always preaching about their way being the only way, which is why those who don’t follow their beliefs are entitled to equal time, - entitled to air a different point of view. Nobody has a monopoly on the truth.Furtherrmore, people who question organized religion are no more illiterate and ignorant than those who blindly accept it.

Of course, in assessing my reply, Carey will resort to his favorite cop-out about “a fox smelling its own urine“, as is if this is an indication of anything other than the fact that he’s pissed off. Since I expressed rejection of organized religion, it’s reasonable to assume that I was among those he was griping about. So damned what? I willingly accept the role of being someone who responds to Carey’s attempt to repress free thought.

#21 careycarey

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Posted 04 December 2011 - 04:32 PM

Yes Cynique, you are right again, a fox does smell it's own hole and here you come arunnin'. Thanks for enhancing my point.

Now, first and foremost, I nor anyone else is trying to bind the hands of freedom of speech... lets get that straight! What I am doing and saying is that each of us are responsible for our words. To that degree, when a person chastises another for their beliefs, convictions and religion, I question the motives and purpose of them doing so. And as I've said many times, I think, I believe it's far more positive and enriching to highlight the good in ever religion, and person, than to swim in negativity. It's always been my opinion that gossip and the berating of anot religion serve no purpose and thus, it should be viewed as garbage and thrown in the trash can. Another way to look at that is TAKE THE GOOD and leave the rest behind. However, as been noted many times, over many years, many readers of this site love nothing more than ingratiating cynicism, confusion and negativity. That which I've come to believe serves little or no purpose whatsoever. And Cynique, without a doubt YOU are a leading voice in that form of "conversation".

In short, I believe it's safe to say that all (most) religions have a doctrine that they hope their followers will live by. That root and/or the birth of those "guidelines" may be debated, however, the substance of said "text" is where the rewards can be found. More importantly, it's also safe to say each (all) religions, text, Bible, etc, have a common goal. That is to inspire happiness, joy and understanding to each individual who takes the time to read said books. Then maybe, each of those individuals will pass their rewards forward.

#22 Cynique

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Posted 05 December 2011 - 12:34 AM

Surely after what you have just written, Carey, you are not suggesting the Christians don't chastise those who don't share their beliefs. How can you infer that Christians don't aggressively rebut the arguments of agnostics and atheists? Are you really trying to portray Christians as passive peaceful people who don't villify those who they consider satanic for daring to question the Christian idea of god? How can you ignore all the negativity and hate that is justified with obscure references from the bible? How can you dismiss the dissension within the Christians ranks wherein the different denominations reject each other; Catholics vs Protestants, Baptists vs Methodists, Lutherans vs Jehovah's Witnesses, Everybody vs Mormons. Get outta here.

In a subliminal attempt to make Christians the good guys and free thinkers the bad guys, you falsely accuse others here of trying to convince Christians to abandon their beliefs. Not so. I repeat: folks are entitled to rely on whatever floats their boats when it comes to coping with the this thing called Life.

And to say that you are not trying to stifle free thought is ridiculous in light of your patronizing suggestion that everyone here should just politely agree and never challenge the bland platitudes of others - this in a forum which is an arena for controversy. Go somewhere and sit down and stop trying to manage people.

Fortunately you inadvertly expose how the goal of all religions is to tout their way as the only way to achieve the happiness and peace of mind that spiritual people are able to generate without the contraints inspired by a fear of displeasing a white-haired old man in a flowing robe.

Yes, I admit I am a contrarian and what you and your shady self need to realize is that you aren't exactly a positive force with your ongoing ad hominen attempts to attack and belittle the messengers whose messsages don't conform with your muddled, narrow-minded opinions.

#23 careycarey

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Posted 05 December 2011 - 07:03 AM

"fear of displeasing a white-haired old man in a flowing robe" Really Cynique?! Seriously?! Surely you're being factious?

"And to say that you are not trying to stifle free thought is ridiculous in light of your patronizing suggestion that everyone here should just politely agree and never challenge the bland platitudes of others - this in a forum which is an arena for controversy. Go somewhere and sit down and stop trying to manage people" ~ Cynique

Is that right, is that what I'm doing? Are you sure about that? I don't think so! And look, so now this board, this place of thought provoking conversation is home to "controversy"? Seriously?! Personally, I do not believe that should be, nor is, the goal of a meeting place like this, and although Prince wrote a song about it, CONTROVERSY... is not for everyone. And please tell me the goal and reasoning behind your need to "[challenge the bland platitudes of others"???!!!

Listen Cynique, you have a penchant for stereotyping people of a religious faith. That's a very slippery and misleading slope. Just as we as blacks are not a monolithic group, so goes individuals who profess being Catholics, Baptist, Mormons or of a Jewish faith. So I don't quite understand the purpose nor your reasoning behind the following words. I surely did not make the following claims. Take a look:

"How can you infer that Christians don't aggressively rebut the arguments of agnostics and atheists? Are you really trying to portray Christians as passive peaceful people who don't villify those who they consider satanic for daring to question the Christian idea of god? How can you ignore all the negativity and hate that is justified with obscure references from the bible? How can you dismiss the dissension within the Christians ranks wherein the different dominantions reject each other; Catholics vs Protestants, Baptists vs Methodists, Lutherans vs Jehovah's Witnesses, Everybody vs Mormons" ~ Cynique

Now Cynique, those are your words, these are mine ---> "To that degree, when a person chastises another for their beliefs, convictions and religion, I question the motives and purpose of them doing so. And as I've said many times, I think, I believe it's far more positive and enriching to highlight the good in ever religion, and person, than to swim in negativity. It's always been my opinion that gossip and the berating of someones religion serves no purpose and thus, those opinions should be viewed as garbage and thrown in the trash can. Another way to look at that is TAKE THE GOOD and leave the rest behind. In short, I believe it's safe to say that all (most) religions have a doctrine that they HOPE their followers will live by.. More importantly, it's also safe to say each (all) religions, text, Bible, etc, have a COMMON GOAL. That is to inspire happiness, joy and understanding to each individual who reads their "respective sources of reference" ~CareyCarey

So Cynique, if controversy is your goal, I am suggesting you will most assuredly reap your rewards as long as you continue to frame and define your own arguments. But I can safely assume that most of the free thinking individuals who visit this site can see through your maze of deciet, poppycock and confusion. In short, you can fool some of the people some of the time but...

#24 Troy

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Posted 05 December 2011 - 10:08 AM

Classic Cynique!

Carey I hope you read what Cynique has written, think about it for a while, and reply with something that reflects that process.
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#25 Cynique

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Posted 05 December 2011 - 11:45 AM

So Carey has a problem with this board being a place of controversy? Boo-Hoo. Pardon me, but is this site the brainchild of Troy Johnson or is it under the jurisdiction of Carey? It's hard to tell since Carey wants to run things and dictate what and how things should be discussed. Control freak that he is, Carey further wants to tell everybody how to behave and if their actions don't meet with his approval then he desperately stoops to character assassination. In the process the only thing he kills is his own credibility. :wacko:

I'm disappointed that "the great arbitrator" couldn't give me any examples of the deceit and poppy cock and confusion that he attributed to me. But he couldn't do this because these are just excuses used to deflect from the fact that he doesn't have the chops to counteract what I say. And he's the one with a habit of framing his arguments; this is why he has set up his own blog so he can try to win friends and influence people in a pathetic attempt to convince himself that he's a man of substance. Too bad the substance he personifies is egocentric bull shit. :P

#26 ironsmith

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Posted 06 December 2011 - 10:17 PM

Wow, careycarey got a lot in there.

#27 Cynique

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Posted 07 December 2011 - 02:45 PM

Because, contrary to the dismay of those who want this dynamic discussion board to be a bland haven for those of one mind, I welcome your input, ironsmith, - whatever it entails.

And since this subject continues to draw comments, I once again say what distractors continue to ignore. People who don't embrace religion are regularly bombarded with the evangelism of those who do - forever being preached to by Christians, in particular, who assume that everybody accepts their way as the indisputable truth. (Most of the Eastern religions suggest that individuals seek their own path to becoming one with the universe.) Currently non-Christians are being scolded for wishing others a "Happy Holiday" instead of a "Merry Christimas", Watta sin.

As I continue to stress, spiritual free-thinkers are entitled to equal time in expressing their views. Sometimes we elect to fight "fire and brimstone" with "enlightenment and concrete logic".This doesn't mean we are trying to convince people to abandon what provides them with a source of comfort . There's something to be said for strong faith. It's a great tranquilizer.

Obviously some people have a problem with a diversity of ideas. They want everybody to simultaneously smile and unanimously bob their heads in agreement. :rolleyes:

Finally, my complaints are directed to those to whom they apply. If you don't give a damn whether or not some people don't believe that Jesus walked on water, than I offer a hearty Amen. I don't much care, myself. ^_^

#28 careycarey

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Posted 07 December 2011 - 04:11 PM

"So Carey has a problem with this board being a place of controversy?" ~ Cynique


See Cynique, there you go again. Please excuse me, but I believe I've been a participating member of this board before you even arrived on the scene (long before you graced us with your venom). I've been do this for nearly 12 years, and controversy has followed many of my steps. So baby please, baby please, if you are going to quote me, come straight and save the pandering for another site.

Now, what I am saying is IF your words and intentions have the SOLE purpose of causing confusion, bending the truth and voicing gutter gossip. I'd say that's a poor mission statement.


So be careful Cynique, as you can see, folks like Ironsmith and others are not buying your whimsical rhetoric.

#29 Cynique

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Posted 08 December 2011 - 02:24 AM

Oh Puleeze, carey. I can't believe that you are denying that you were bitching about controversy. Now you're flip flopping and trying to tout yourself as controversial when actually you are not. You aren't that deep. You're just contradictory, talking out of both sides of your mouth. You never refute arguments, you just whine about people not agreeing with you. Why don't you give some examples of my "truth-bending gutter gossip" instead of trying to portray yourself as something other than a bumbling name-caller who accuses others of "spewing venom". Is that any relation to - "whimsical rhetoric"?? Good grief. You're never more pathetic than when you're trying to articulate. :wacko:

You're so busy moping around, pining for the good ol days of the last century back when the internet was stagnant instead of organic, back when you were holding forth, stinking up the place with your diarrhea of the mouth. Where is your little posse now? They all wimped out I guess because they didn't want this forum to reflect the real world; they wanted it to sugar coat it. :( Bleh.

And you kill me trying to pull rank as if your "seniority" is a big deal. I've been hangin around here since 1997 and I couldn't care less if you don't like my style.You just can't seem to wrap your brain around the idea that I am not seeking your sanction. Who cares about your disapproval? You ain't nobody. Poor ol fella. You've always wanted to be the moderator here, always wanted to set the tone for the discussions, always trying to whip others into line, always thinking you have people's number, never figuring out that you, yourself, ain't fooling anybody; you're just a blow-hard, wanna-be. :blink:

Also, where are all these board members who have a problem with me? Why don't they come forward and speak up? Why are they all so tacit and timid? Maybe you can corral them into your sheep farm. :mellow: You have your blog where you undoubtedly bask in your own admiration. Have all your fans from those wonderful old happy, foot-shuffling days followed you over there??? Or did they outgrow you and your irrelevance?? Easy to do. :lol:

And while you're taking bows because of ironsmith's ambiguous comment, don't fool yourself into thinking that there aren't others out there who understand where Troy was coming from when he co-signed to my post. ;)

#30 Troy

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Posted 10 December 2011 - 10:40 AM

ANYONE who has been here since the 90's have my gratitude and admiration!
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#31 Cynique

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Posted 10 December 2011 - 03:51 PM

Yea, Troy, I guess you do have to give Carey his props for what has apparently evolved into his being a glutton for punishment, - still here in spite of how he has to endure the "thorn in his side". :lol:

Kudos also to Kola who had the fortitude to weather many storms, and also Crystal who is just plain "good people". :)

I probably would've faded away long ago if there hadn't been so much opportunity for my devilment. :rolleyes:

But, that's what you get, Troy, for giving your posters free rein. ;)



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