Sister Melissa
Born in Seattle, Washington on October 2, 1973, but raised in
Charlottesville and Chester, Virginia,
Melissa V. Harris-Perry
is a professor
of political science at Tulane University where she is the founding director
of the project on gender, race, and politics in the South. Her previous
book, Barbershops, Bibles, and BET: Everyday Talk and Black Political
Thought, won the 2005 W. E. B. Du Bois Book Award from the National
Conference of Black Political Scientists and the 2005 Best Book Award from
the Race and Ethnic Politics Section of the American Political Science
Association.
Melissa lives in New Orleans with her husband, James Perry, and her daughter, Parker. Here, she reflects on her life and career and on American culture and politics while discussing her new book, Sister Citizen.
Melissa Harris-Perry - The "Sister Citizen" Interview
with Kam Williams
Kam Williams: Hi Melissa, thanks for the interview.
Melissa Harris-Perry: Absolutely, Kam! How are you?
KW: I�m fine. You know, I was walking across Princeton�s campus at dusk one
evening this past spring, and just by coincidence I came upon you speaking
at an outdoor event. Had I known at the time that you were leaving for
Tulane, I�d have stuck around to meet you.
MHP: That probably was for "Take Back the Night."
KW: I have a slew of questions from readers, so let me jump right into them.
Jerry Doran says: You�re the prettiest and smartest political pundit on
television today. He would like to know if there�s any way he and his wife
could take you to dinner in Stony Brook out on Long Island.
MHP: [Laughs] Sorry, Jerry, but it�d be pretty hard for me to make it out
there.
KW: Jerry would also like to know when you�re going to get your own prime
time TV show.
MHP: At the moment, there definitely aren�t any plans for a prime-time show.
I really love sitting in for both Rachel [Maddow] and for Lawrence
[O�Donnell], and I will do that again to support their having a little time
off during holidays and over the summer. But my experience guest-hosting
meant going in around noon and not leaving until about 10 PM. That�s quite
time-consuming, especially since my whole life takes place between noon and
10.
KW: San Francisco attorney Randy Knox, says he�s friends with your sister
Elizabeth.
MHP: She�s the best! I�m the youngest of five, and Beth�s the sister closest
to me in age. She�s the one I grew up in the house with, and therefore
shared all the sibling rivalry and sisterly joys with. She has two gorgeous
children and has lived in the Bay Area since she went to law school.
KW: Randy, who moved to San Francisco from New Orleans, would like to know
how you like The Big Easy, and if you�ve ever been to a place called The
Bunch Club.
MHP: I�ve never been to The Bunch Club. Not yet. I absolutely adore New
Orleans. I�d been living here a few months out of every year since Hurricane
Katrina. Being here full-time now is just a real pleasure. I love it!
KW: Does your husband have any plans to run for mayor or any other political
office again?
MHP: Not at the moment. There is a race or two that he�s considering, but he
hasn�t decided yet.
Sister
Citizen: Shame, Stereotypes, and Black Women in America
Click to order via Amazon
Hardcover: 392 pages
Publisher: Yale University Press (9/2011)
Read an AALBC.com Book Review
KW: What interested you in writing Sister Citizen?
MHP: I had started the project before Hurricane Katrina, but the real
turning point for me was the race and gender politics that emerged on the
national stage after the levee failure. That was, for me, a consolidating
moment in my attempt to understand the experience of contemporary black
women trying to be American citizens.
KW: What message do you hope readers will take away from the book?
MHP: I suspect different audiences will take away different things from the
book. For instance, my editor at Yale University Press, who is a white male,
felt that he�d been introduced to some black women�s literature he�d never
read and to some stereotypes and ideas that he�d previously never engaged
with. By contrast, some black women I�ve talked to about the book weren�t
surprised by what they read. They found that it resonated with their
experiences and perhaps contributed to their vocabulary and gave them some
new ways of thinking about the political meaning of those experiences.
KW: Judyth Piazza asks: What was the most important lesson you learned from
this project?
MHP: I learned two lessons: one from the research, one from the writing.
From the research, this idea that you just have to be strong if you�re a
black woman. And in the process of writing, I learned that you can�t write a
book in the margins of your life. I�d forgotten how much uninterrupted time
it takes to write chapters, and how you have to push everything else aside
and really focus.
KW: Lee Bailey asks: Do you enjoy being a guest news anchor for Rachel
Maddow, and do you plan to pursue anchoring your own show?
MHP: Sitting in for Rachel and Lawrence is beyond fun. It is one of the most
exciting and challenging things I�ve done in a very long time. Part of what
I love about it is that the host has already assembled a fantastic staff for
me, developed credibility and built an audience. So, I just have to walk in,
bring my ideas and work my butt off for a few days. It�s really the best of
both worlds. As far as anchoring my own show, I won�t say I wouldn�t do it,
but I can�t imagine how that would affect my ability to parent my child.
KW: Lee also asks: Why the negative response to
The Help?
MHP: Oh, Gosh! I could spend all day answering this one. The intensity of my
negative response was in part related to having just published Sister
Citizen. So, I had been thinking a lot about the stereotypes and the images
of black women. Both the book and the film are, for me, terribly
problematic, because they�re very, very dishonest, romanticized versions of
one of the most important aspects of African-American women�s working lives,
namely, being domestic servants.
For most of American history since slavery,
that�s the type of work that we�ve done. My grandmother was a domestic
worker. The Help claimed to be told from the perspective of the
African-American maids, but it isn�t. I could go on in considerable depth
about it, but let me address the two most dishonest aspects. The first is
the fact that although the author tried to illustrate the tension between
white women and their maids, she ignores the black women�s relationships
with two other very important groups in the household: the white men and the
white children.
She refuses to imagine that they could have felt anything other than pure love, attachment, affection and fidelity towards the kids they were hired to care for. It is such a bizarre, romantic notion that they didn�t have mixed feelings about spending so much time caring for children of privilege while their own offspring went neglected because they were in these white households. Clearly, the book was written from the perspective of a person who had been raised by one of these loving black maids and who therefore couldn�t imagine anything but affection on the part of the caretaker.
The second dishonest aspect of the book was how it ignored the violence by white men against blacks. One scene in the movie that just made me want to rip my hair out was when, in response to the Medgar Evers assassination, all the maids finally decide to talk to Miss Skeeter. That is made up! That is not what happened! The truth is that when Medgar Evers was murdered, the black maids of Jackson, Mississippi organized themselves and went out into the streets en masse, thereby not only putting their jobs in jeopardy but risking violent reprisals on the part of the police and the white community.
The Help ignores that brave, real-life effort in favor of a
fantasy suggesting that what they needed was to share their stories with a
white woman in secret. A careful author would�ve done her research and then
incorporated what actually transpired, because accounts about these maids�
bravery are readily available. The danger that I fear now is that The Help
will become the historical record because of its popularity, and that people
who see the movie will come to believe that that�s really what happened.
KW: Yeah, like how the misleading images in Gone with the Wind came to
replace the truth about The South during slavery.
MHP: Exactly! That�s precisely what happened with both Gone with the Wind
and The Birth of a Nation. Popular films are so powerful and compelling that
it�s often easier to accept their versions of history than the much more
complicated true stories. That�s why the most distressing aspect for me
about The Help has been the number of African-American women I�ve
encountered who didn�t know how dishonest the story was. I just don�t want
us, in our own politics, to fall into the trap of reproducing it.
KW: Do you then have a problem with Viola Davis for agreeing to play the
lead character?
MHP: I have no criticism of Viola Davis, just as I have none of Hattie
McDaniel�s performance in Gone with the Wind. In fact, I find them both to
have done exceptional work with the roles that they were given. Honestly, I
understand that, as Hollywood actresses, they need to work. I also
appreciate how Viola had tamped down her character to speak in a much more
recognizable, black Southern woman�s voice than the caricature which Kathryn
Stockett presented in the book. So, I�m not criticizing Viola Davis, but
rather I�m disappointed that this is the version of black womanhood that
American audiences are so jazzed-up and excited to consume. There�s nothing
like a redemptive mammy. [Sarcastically]
KW: Lisa Loving asks: Did you get any backlash over your live tweeting about
The Help?
MHP: Oh, yeah! But I need to point out that I wasn�t just losing my mind,
but that I had been assigned by my job to tweet live in the theater. That
was one of those rare occasions where my snarky, more animated side came
out. And I�ve learned over time that that is always the self that gets the
most criticism.
KW: Leah Fletcher would like to know whether you see a link between the
state of contemporary black men and Jim Crow segregation.
MHP: Yes, for both black men and black women. We are barely removed from Jim
Crow. My father attended segregated public schools, and he�s not an old man.
Slavery is becoming more distant, but Jim Crow is not. There are so many
effects, but I�d say that the single most important residual impact of Jim
Crow is the continuing reality of residential segregation in most American
cities and towns. And that impacts everything from educational and
employment opportunities to real estate values to access to transportation
to the quality of one�s environment. Housing affects everything, and we
continue to live in very, very segregated communities.
KW: Teresa Emerson asks: When did we black women get so far off the mark
with our public image? With all we've accomplished, why is self-esteem still
such a problem in our communities?
MHP: In 1619 [when the first slaves were brought to America]. There has
never been a moment when African-American women were fundamentally
celebrated as model citizens. Even at this point in history when we have a
black First Lady, we see the power of these negative stereotypes about black
women in that the dishonest mythology continues to thrive.
KW: Teresa also asks: Do you feel the pervasiveness of mainstream media,
movies, TV reality shows, etcetera have tainted this generation's view of
black woman/black man relationships? How do we effectively change that when
bombarded with such crazy images?
MHP: That�s a really tough question. I stayed away from domestic, personal
relationships in the book. I decided to focus on the public and the
political, and to leave that ground to psychologists and sociologists.
KW: Harriet Pakula Teweles asks: How might female gender stereotyping in
other ethnic groups also become a �convenient� way for patriarchies to treat
women as objects rather than subjects?
MHP: The only thing in The Help that irritated and offended me more than how
it portrayed black women was how white women were portrayed. Look, I grew up
in, went to school in, and now live in the American South, and southern
white women are interesting, complex and quirky, even the ones with racial
anxieties. Stereotypes work to help divide women from recognizing their
common interests. Think of how hard it would be to create a gender-based
movement across racial lines as long as one group believes that it has to be
strong while seeing the other group as passive and weak. We could also go
into the stereotypes of the saucy, mercurial Latina and the docile,
easily-dominated Asian woman.
KW: Editor/Legist Patricia Turnier says: There are people who want to
identify themselves as biracial because they feel that they have to
acknowledge both cultural identities. What made you decide to identify
yourself as black?
MHP: This is the weirdest question that I am consistently asked. When I grew
up in Virginia in the Seventies, there was no such thing as biracial. I
understand that in 2011 you can opt to self-identify as biracial, although
others might still identify you differently. Having a white parent
undoubtedly makes for a different childhood experience than having two black
parents. However, I think the idea that you�re somehow rejecting whiteness
if you don�t identify yourself as biracial is odd because everybody engages
in whiteness. If you live in America, you�re doing whiteness all the time,
even if you have no white people in your family. So, I don�t know what
people mean when they ask me whether I�m embracing my whiteness. Whiteness
is ubiquitous. That being said, I believe that in 21st Century America it�s
perfectly legitimate for children with a black parent and a white parent to
identify themselves as biracial, if that�s their preference.
KW: I recently reviewed a very thought-provoking documentary called
Biracial, Not Black, Damn It! in which they interviewed dozens of mixed
people who don�t want to be seen as just black.
MHP: All I have to say is: Good luck with that in America! [LOL]
KW: I remember thinking it was odd when I was in college, when this brother
tried to befriend me by saying, �We mulatoes have to stick together.� I
told him we could be friends, but both my parents were black and I grew up
in a black community, so I didn�t have any identity crisis.
MHP: I never had one either, not at 7, 17, 27 or now.
KW: Patricia also says: We all know about the famous test done by Dr.
Kenneth Clark in 1954 for the Brown vs. Board of Education case. In 2006,
the filmmaker Kiri Davis recreated the doll study and documented it in a
film entitled A Girl Like Me. Despite the many changes in some parts of
society, Davis got the same results as Dr. Clark did a half-century earlier.
Recently, I heard about a five-year old African girl who put her black doll
in the garbage. What do you think needs to be done to put an end to the
perpetuation of harmful stereotypes which continue to affect black females?
MHP: I�m raising an African-American child who has both black and white
dolls. Something I was struck by was how she�s renamed two of them Malia and
Sasha when Barack Obama became President. As a parent, I have an
appreciation that there are counteracting, positive images for this
generation of little girls growing up with Malia and Sasha in the White
House as the First Daughters.
KW: Finally, Patricia says: You started the research for your book circa ten
years ago. What was the turning point which made you decide that you had to
write about the very important subject regarding the image of Black women?
MHP: As I mentioned before, it was what unfolded after Hurricane Katrina.
KW: Children�s book author Irene Smalls asks: To what do you attribute some
black women's denial of their hair, with weaves, extensions, relaxers and
wigs? Is there any remedy for this denial?
MHP: That�s rough! I don�t know if it�s a denial of our hair. I wear twists
that are extensions. I�m doing that because I�m growing out my natural hair,
and I can�t really do that on TV without some sort of intervention. I�ve
worn a perm during much of my adulthood. Look, I simply do not judge
African-American women�s grooming choices. I don�t think that a white woman
is in denial when she dyes her hair blonde. And I actually think we are the
most varied in terms of the choices we make about our hair. Some of it may
be political or psychological, but an awful lot of it is just aesthetic, how
we like to view ourselves when we look in the mirror.
KW: Irene continues: As a black woman I have seen white women look at black
women in blonde wigs and other white woman wanna be styles and smile. Do you
think black women rejecting their hair and other aspects of blackness
affects the power dynamic between white women and black women? Does this
affect the power dynamic between white men and black women, between black
women and black men, and ultimately of black women with themselves?
MHP: I can understand how someone might read wearing a blonde wig as a
desire to be white, but I suspect that the same shaming smirk can happen if
you wear a big afro or any number of other hairstyles. I find that non-black
women will engage me in conversation about my hair, if I wear it in anything
but the most nondescript perm.
From childhood forward, our hair is one of
the most critical, defining aspects of our embodied selves as black women:
how we get it done� how we have to focus on it� the questions we have to
answer about it... and so forth. In the book, I talk about how this desire
for whiteness can impact us psychologically. So, I don�t want in any way to
suggest that that sort of shaming, a desire for whiteness and white beauty
doesn�t exist. But I do think that we have to be careful not to assume that
getting a perm or wearing a blonde wig is a desire for whiteness. It may or
may not be. Listen, I live in a poor black neighborhood where women wear
blue hair, green hair, and all kinds of stuff. So, I simply see it as a
different set of choices.
KW: Rudy Lewis says: Melissa, you are spot on when it comes to white
feminism. But your responses to
Cornel West's attacks on U.S. economic
policies with respect to the poor and the middle classes and your support of
the Libyan War make me uncomfortable. Have these views been placed in
concrete?
MHP: I am a supporter of much of the Arab Spring, as a matter of indigenous
self-determination. So, I see the United States� role in Libya as an
appropriately restrained one in providing some international support for the
work of those trying to bring democratic change against a regime that has
undoubtedly been dictatorial, particularly in the past twenty years. I know
some people side with Cornel West and disagree with my support of the
Obama
Administration, but I think that�s part of the robust conversation of
Democratic politics.
KW: Yale grad Tommy Russell asks: Do you think
President Obama is doing
enough for African-American communities throughout the U.S., or have major
issues like wars, the oil spill, and The Great Recession been too much for
one administration during one term? What more do you think he could be doing
right now?
MHP: I think the most critical needs of the African-American communities
aren�t being addressed primarily because of decisions being made by
Republican Congressional leaders. The efforts to kill the President�s
healthcare, jobs and stimulus packages have all been at the behest of the
Republican leadership.
KW: Film director Kevin Williams says: Some polls indicate that President
Obama's support is waning in the African-American community given the state
of the economy and black unemployment rate. Do you foresee the Republican
Party increasing its efforts to get the black vote in 2012, and making any
inroads in that regard?
MHP: No, the Republicans don�t need black folks to vote Republican, they
just need them to not vote.
KW: Kevin also would like to know why you left Princeton to teach at Tulane,
which is where he got his Masters in 1993.
MHP: The number one reason was because I married a New Orleanian. Secondly,
Tulane offered me a promotion to full professor as well as an opportunity to
run my own program.
KW: H. Lewis Smith had this reaction to your article entitled "Black
President, Double Standard: Why White Liberals Are Abandoning Obama": Your point-of-view is reflective of many blacks
who are aware of the racism, but are blind to black people's complicity in
it all. The white man does not see us as his equal...period, and never will.
Fine, I say. You don't have to like me...just respect me. And therein lies
the problem, the lack of respect. Until we as a race can show we have what
it takes to respect one another, none is ever going to be given to us as a
group. Your thoughts?
MHP: I would agree that liking is secondary to fairness and equality, but
recognition is tied to resource distribution. So, it actually does matter
what people think about you.
KW: Is there any question no one ever asks you, that you wish someone would?
MHP: No, I think I already reveal way too much.
KW: Then do you have a good, probing question I could ask other celebrities?
MHP: How about: How did your first big heartbreak impact who you are as a
person?
KW: Thanks, that�ll be my Melissa Harris-Perry question. Now, the
Tasha
Smith question: Are you ever afraid?
MHP: All the time.
KW: The Columbus Short question: Are you happy?
MHP: Yes.
KW: The Teri Emerson question: When was the last time you had a good laugh?
MHP: [Giggles] This morning with my husband.
KW: What is your guiltiest pleasure?
MHP: Reality-TV.
KW: The bookworm
Troy Johnson
question: What was the last book you read?
Girls in White Dresses
Click to Buy via Amazon.com
Why Are You Picking on Me?
Click to Buy via Amazon.com
Fatal Invention: How Science, Politics, and Big Business Re-create Race in the Twenty-First Century
Click to Buy via Amazon.com
Read an
AALBC.com Book Review
MHP: I�m reading three: A surprisingly good first novel
called Girls in White Dresses.
With my daughter, I just read a Marvin Redpost book called Why Are You
Picking on Me?
And Dorothy Roberts� new book, Fatal Invention.
KW: The music maven Heather Covington question: What was the last music you
listened to?
MHP: [Chuckles] That�s part of the good laugh that I had with my husband
this morning. I was playing Eric B. and Rakim really loud as I pulled into
our driveway.
KW: What is your favorite dish to cook?
MHP: Macaroni and cheese.
KW: The Sanaa Lathan question: What excites you?
MHP: International travel.
KW: The Uduak Oduok question: Who is your favorite clothes designer?
MHP: I have no idea. Sorry.
KW: Dante Lee, author of "Black Business Secrets, asks: �What was the best
business decision you ever made, and what was the worst?"
MHP: I�m horrible with money. I make bad business decisions every hour of
the day. My best professional decision was taking my first job at the
University of Chicago.
KW: When you look in the mirror, what do you see?
MHP: I just had a birthday, so I�d say I see my age.
KW: Happy birthday! If you could have one wish instantly granted, what would
that be for?
MHP: I would want to know that my daughter is going to enjoy a long, happy
and healthy life.
KW: The Pastor Alex Kendrick question: When do you feel the most content?
MHP: Sunday mornings before church, when I�m home with my husband and
daughter, and we�re kind of doing our Sunday morning routine.
KW: The Toure question: Who is the person who led you to become the person
you are today?
MHP: Undoubtedly, the biggest influence on my life is my mom, followed
pretty closely by my dad.
KW: The Ling-Ju Yen question: What is your earliest childhood memory?
MHP: Riding around the neighborhood in a plastic molded seat on the back of
my mom�s bike at about the age of 2.
KW: The Judyth Piazza questions: How do you define success? And, what key
quality do you believe all successful people share?
MHP: For me, success is when I�m making a contribution and fully engaging
all of my talents. In terms of the key quality, it�s being willing to
continue to believe in yourself even when other people don�t, and being able
to fail and to come back.
KW: What advice do you have for anyone who wants to follow in your
footsteps?
MHP: Woo! Drink lots of water, and nap. I�ve made some really big messes
along the way, whether on the academic side or on the media side. It hasn�t
been a straight path. But a lot of those mess-ups have led to opportunities,
so I guess I�d say be fearless, and keep bottled water with you, so you
don�t dehydrate.
KW: The Tavis Smiley question: How do you want to be remembered?
MHP: Fondly, by my family.
KW: Thanks again for the time, Melissa, and best of luck with the book,
MSNBC and teaching at Tulane this year.
MHP: Thanks so much Kam. It�s been fun!
Related Links
An Open Statement to the Fans of The Help
http://aalbc.com/reviews/the_help_historical_context.html
Biracial, Not Black, Damn It! - Groundbreaking Documentary
Explores Sensitive Subject of Biraciality
http://aalbc.com/reviews/biracial_not_black_damn_it.html
