BEGIN:VCALENDAR VERSION:2.0 PRODID:-//InvisionCommunity Events 5.0.18//EN METHOD:PUBLISH CALSCALE:GREGORIAN REFRESH-INTERVAL:PT15M X-PUBLISHED-TTL:PT15M X-WR-CALNAME:RMCommunityCalendar NAME:RMCommunityCalendar BEGIN:VTIMEZONE TZID:Europe/London TZURL:https://tzurl.org/zoneinfo/Europe/London X-LIC-LOCATION:Europe/London BEGIN:DAYLIGHT TZOFFSETFROM:+0000 TZOFFSETTO:+0100 TZNAME:BST DTSTART:20250330T020000Z RRULE:FREQ=YEARLY;BYMONTH=3;BYDAY=-1SU END:DAYLIGHT BEGIN:STANDARD TZOFFSETFROM:+0100 TZOFFSETTO:+0000 TZNAME:GMT DTSTART:20251026T020000Z RRULE:FREQ=YEARLY;BYMONTH=10;BYDAY=-1SU END:STANDARD END:VTIMEZONE BEGIN:VEVENT SUMMARY:BREAKING the DEADLOCK: A Power Play 05/22/2025 DTSTAMP:20250522T160610Z SEQUENCE:0 UID:275-7-c3fe8195a3dde498d013e477e2142422@aalbc.com ORGANIZER;CN="richardmurray":noreply@aalbc.com DESCRIPTION:\n BREAKING the DEADLOCK: A Power Play\n\n https://www.pbs.o rg/video/breaking-the-deadlock-a-power-play-14yofj/\n\n\n\n VIDEO\n\n\n\n \n\n\n\n  \n\n\n\n TRANSCRIPT\n\n\n\n If you don't rein in executive powe r when it's your guy in office\, then we're just on this never-ending cycl e.\n\nRight now\, we have a system that's electing performance artists in the highest levels of government.\n\nTIM RYAN: We need leaders with guts.\ n\n\"Can\" does not mean \"should.\"\n\nI've been in the Oval Office befor e with a resignation letter in my pocket.\n\nIt's not easy.\n\nDon't you h ave a responsibility to hold up your institution?\n\nJust do proximate jus tice.\n\nJust try to get in the ballpark.\n\nThe oath that I took put my a llegiance to the Constitution of the United States\, not to any one partic ular elected president.\n\nI am salivating at the subpoena power.\n\n(laug hter) Consider your political position before you step out here and cause a problem for yourself or the president.\n\nALLYSON K. DUNCAN: Criticism i s legitimate.\n\nThreats are not.\n\nI've had death threats.\n\nPower is s o intoxicating.\n\nJON TESTER: You've got to start talking to one another and you've got to develop trust.\n\nAnd you use the Constitution as the fo undation for moving forward.\n\n♪ ♪ ANNOUNCER: This program is made po ssible in part by viewers like you.\n\nThank you.\n\nLocation furnished by The New York Historical.\n\nANNOUNCER: Introducing \"Breaking the Deadloc k\" is Katie Couric.\n\nIn September 1787\, at the end of the Constitution al Convention\, Benjamin Franklin was confronted with a question.\n\n\"Wel l\, Dr. Franklin\,\" he was asked\, \"do we have a monarchy or a republic? \"\n\nFranklin responded\, \"We have a republic-- if we can keep it.\"\n\n Franklin and the other founders understood that this experiment in democra cy wouldn't be easy.\n\nTheir instruction manual for us-- that's the U.S. Constitution-- laid out the duties and powers of each branch of government .\n\nBut they understood that whether or not it would work would depend on our ability to find and respect common civic norms and values.\n\nSo\, wh ere are we today?\n\nWhat do we agree on?\n\nAnd what values can we share? \n\nIn this program\, we challenge a group of panelists to wrestle with th e same basic questions about power-- power to determine how we live\, work \, and think\, and whether the people would rule or those in power would r ule us.\n\nNow we go to Professor Aaron Tang and our hypothetical scenario : A Power Play.\n\nAARON TANG: Welcome.\n\nThis is a story about power.\n\ nWe begin in the state of Middlevania\, during the first-term presidency o f a person that many of you voted for.\n\nPaul Powerton.\n\nNow Powerton i s getting to work\, and he's wielding presidential power in some bold ways to do it.\n\nIt's gonna lead to some hard questions\, starting with one f or you\, Jon Tester.\n\nFor generations\, your family has owned a farm her e in Middlevania.\n\nBut now that farm is about to go under\, all because President Powerton canceled a major federal grant program\, and it's left you\, Jon Tester\, and thousands of other small business owners deep in th e hole.\n\nHow does it feel knowing that you might lose the family farm?\n \nWell\, it feels pretty bad.\n\nMy grandfather came out to the farm and h omesteaded that place\, uh\, when there was nothing but grass there.\n\nIt 's part of my person.\n\nIt's part of what I've done my entire life.\n\nUh \, and\, uh\, to lose that\, is losing a part of yourself.\n\nAnd if the f arm goes under\, are you the only one\, you and your wife\, who'll be affe cted?\n\nTESTER: Yeah\, probably not.\n\nTANG: Your community?\n\nThe fact is that rural America will be affected.\n\nIf I'm\, if I'm going under\, it's probably a lot of others going under\, too.\n\nAnd then the community gets smaller\, Main Street gets smaller\, the schools get smaller\, and r ural America continues to dry up.\n\nSo it's bad all the way around.\n\nTA NG: Option number one\, you could take out a second mortgage on your home\ , go further into debt and maybe things will get better.\n\nIf they do\, y ou might save the farm.\n\nBut if they don't\, you'd lose it all-- the far m\, your house\, your savings.\n\nOption number two\, you could sell the f arm.\n\nI think I would try to keep the farm under all\, all options.\n\nI f you sell the farm\, I mean\, you've literally let down generations of yo ur family\, uh\, and you failed them.\n\nAnd you failed your kids and your grandkids\, too.\n\nTANG: Hard decisions like this are happening at kitch en tables around the country.\n\nBut Jon\, like generations of Testers bef ore you\, you steel yourself\, and you forge ahead\, because today is goin g to be a special day.\n\nIt's your favorite day of the year\, the annual family barbecue.\n\nDave Brat.\n\nDave\, you are a retired United States c ongressman.\n\nYou're also Jon's closest cousin.\n\nPractically like broth ers.\n\nHere's what's going through your mind as you head over to the farm .\n\nYou've got mixed feelings.\n\nYou know this could be the last barbecu e at the farm.\n\nAnd you know it's all because President Powerton cancele d that major grant program.\n\nAnd by the way\, the name of the grant-maki ng agency that President Powerton has canceled is the Green Business Burea u\, GBB.\n\nIt provides grants for clean energy\, environmental projects f or small businesses.\n\nFor Jon's farm\, it was solar panels.\n\nSo\, here 's the question.\n\nWhen you see Cousin Jon\, are you gonna tell him what you believe\, which is that the president was right to cancel the Green Bu siness Bureau even if it destroys the farm?\n\nBRAT: I'm very sorry to hea r about the\, the grant and the impact that's gonna have on your farm.\n\n But we have $37 trillion in debt.\n\nWe've fired five million manufacturin g folks.\n\nSo we feel bad for a lot of people in the country right now.\n \nAnd\, uh\, how do you look at this?\n\nI thought that grant would do\, u h\, some things to help do my part in\, in the climate change fight.\n\nTh e bottom line is\, though\, is that\, uh\, in the end\, uh\, we lose the f arm.\n\nAnd that...\n\nI don't think that's a good thing for me\, uh\, my family or the community.\n\nAnd I don't think it's a good thing for societ y either.\n\nYou're talking in the front yard when you hear another truck pull up\, and you turn and you look and you both smile because it's your f avorite niece\, Sarah Isgur.\n\nYour uncles call you over.\n\n\"Sarah\, Sa rah\, we're having a debate.\"\n\nYou\, you know about the farm.\n\nYou kn ow it might be lost.\n\nWhat would you say to your Uncle Jon?\n\nI'd say\, I think you're making all the right decisions.\n\nYou know\, you took the grants because you thought it would provide a little extra income even th ough you kinda knew you didn't want to.\n\nIt didn't pan out.\n\nI think t he delay would've been nice.\n\nIt's not what happened.\n\nUh...\n\nI cert ainly would want to look at some legal options for how that grant got canc eled.\n\nI'm curious about President Powerton's powers to unilaterally can cel that.\n\nBut\, uh\, but I support the second mortgage.\n\nDon't give u p the farm yet.\n\nTANG: All right.\n\nIt's a good niece.\n\nTANG: It's a good niece.\n\nIt's a good niece.\n\nAs you're talking in the front lawn\, a family member calls out from inside the house.\n\n\"Hey!\n\nIt's a brea king news story.\"\n\nYou look up at the TV and there's a special press ev ent about to start at the White House.\n\nSo let's go to Washington\, DC\, now where one of you is in charge.\n\nScott Jennings\, you are President Powerton's press secretary.\n\nAnd he's put you in charge today with a sim ple goal-- \"Communicate to the American people how great it is \"that I a m shutting down the Green Business Bureau.\n\n\"Billions in dollars in gra nts for solar panels and windmills.\n\n\"Because of me\, this executive or der I've issued\, we're saving all of that money for the American people.\ "\n\nSo\, are you excited to communicate that message today?\n\nAbsolutely .\n\nBecause it's what President Powerton ran on and was elected to do.\n\ nAnd the truth is\, what we've uncovered in our investigation since we've taken office\, is that billions upon billions of dollars that we don't rea lly have\, that we borrow from China\, have been spent on political cronie s and technologies and unproven ideas.\n\nAnd so what we're doing is we're canceling these grants.\n\nAnd it's unfortunate that there are going to b e some people who are going to feel some pain.\n\nTANG: You have wisely br ought three prominent leaders from your party to join you today to help yo u spread this message to the American people.\n\nShould we meet them?\n\n- Absolutely.\n\nTANG: All right.\n\nChris Christie.\n\nYou are a United St ates Senator from Middlevania.\n\nYou are a maverick\, not afraid to tell it as it is.\n\n(chuckles) Marc Short.\n\nYou are a representative in the United States House of Representatives.\n\nIn fact\, the Speaker of the Ho use.\n\nYou have a reputation in Powerton's party for getting things done. \n\nRoger Severino\, you're at the press event\, too.\n\nYou are a close a dvisor to the president and the former head of a think tank that is very p opular with the president's base.\n\nCongress\, in the past\, has debated bills\, considered bills to eliminate the Green Business Bureau\, to defun d the Green Business Bureau\, but Congress didn't have the votes.\n\nSo no w President Powerton is doing\, through an executive order\, what Congress couldn't do.\n\nSo you're each gonna have an opportunity to get on nation al TV and thank President Powerton for standing up in Congress's place.\n\ nSenator Christie\, any qualms about standing up on that stage and thankin g the President?\n\nWell\, I'm a little concerned about whether the presid ent has the authority to do that\, take away\, um\, monies that were alrea dy appropriated by the House and the Senate.\n\nProbably are going to want to talk to the president about whether or not there might be another way to get done what he wants to get done.\n\nSo\, um\, as most of my colleagu es in the Senate often do\, I'll wait and see.\n\nOkay.\n\n(laughter) JENN INGS: Senator\, consider your political position and consider what the Ame rican people asked us to do last November\, uh\, before you step out here and cause a problem for yourself or the president.\n\nDon't be on the wron g side of history.\n\nSave the republic's fiscal situation.\n\nCHRISTIE: W ell\, while I often take advice on history from press secretaries\, um... (laughter) ...I\, I\, I would\, I would\, with\, with all due respect to\, to Mr. Jennings\, say that\, you know\, the oath that I took as a United States senator um\, put my allegiance to the Constitution of the United St ates\, not to any one particular man or woman who happens to be elected pr esident or at any other position.\n\nAnd\, um\, if they're uncomfortable w ith me saying that this is something that I'm gonna have to really think a bout\, then they could just take me out of the press conference\, and I'll hold my own press availability\, you know\, in front of the West Wing.\n\ n- Well... - Wow.\n\n(laughter) Do you mind\, do you mind if I call the Se cret Service and have his\, uh... (laughter) - Credentials.\n\nJENNINGS: . ..credentials revoked for the day\, or...?\n\nTANG: Senator Christie\, Mr. Jennings' history lesson wasn't persuasive.\n\nHis political appeal... CH RISTIE: It could be persuasive.\n\nNo\, no\, I... as with many of my colle agues\, I just haven't made up my mind yet.\n\nTANG: Yeah.\n\nAnd I don't think that I should go out there and just read a position of talking point s that was written by the White House.\n\nI was elected by the people of M iddlevania\, and I took an oath to the Constitution.\n\nAnd those two thin gs are my most important constituencies.\n\nTANG: Will you be willing at l east to stand at the press conference but not speak?\n\nNo.\n\nSo you're g onna leave?\n\nCHRISTIE: Well\, if that's the choice I'm given.\n\nI'd lik e to go and say\, \"I'm willing to work with the White House \"along with my colleagues in the Senate to try to get to a legal and appropriate resol ution.\"\n\nAre you okay with him saying that?\n\nWell\, I'm\, I'm okay wi th him saying that he supports the president's mission.\n\nI am not okay i f he wants to stand at our press event and call into question the presiden t's motivations or\, uh\, authority to do it\, because we obviously have a different view on that.\n\nDon't want to have a public debate at our pres s event over method\, if that's something that we can work out in private later.\n\nCHRISTIE: Well\, I mean that's okay.\n\nI got invited to the pre ss event\; I didn't ask to be there\; if they're now rescinding the invita tion\, based on the fact that I can't speak my mind\, that's their\, that' s their right-- it's their White House.\n\nYou could be sure\, though\, th at I'll have a press event someplace else.\n\nSo... SEVERINO: If I could j ump in.\n\nSenator\, the problem is that Congress has not cut this program \, which requires a president to step in.\n\nWhen there's a vacuum of lead ership\, the president has the authority to say we're not gonna be spendin g the money on the Green Business Bureau.\n\nAnd I know there's people tha t are hurt by this\, but there's another side to this equation\, the Ameri can taxpayer.\n\nAnd the authority of the president to say\, \"Look\, \"th is is what is best for the American people.\n\n\"The president ran on this .\n\n\"We're gonna cut the waste.\n\n\"We're going to cut the cronyism \"w ith this Green Business Bureau.\n\n\"And Congress was unwilling to act.\n\ nSo that's why we're in the situation we're in.\"\n\nThose are really all good think tank points.\n\nBut they\, they don't\, they don't take into co nsideration the Constitution\, which they may have misplaced over there at the foundation.\n\nUm\, the fact is that Congress has the power of the pu rse.\n\nUm\, the president is not permitted to just unilaterally take away spending that has been appropriated in a budget that was signed by a pres ident.\n\nBut the foundation did not misplace the Constitution.\n\nCHRISTI E: Maybe just didn't... Maybe just didn't read it\, I don't know.\n\nWell\ , let's see.\n\nTANG: All right.\n\nSpeaker Short.\n\nAre you a thumbs up to speak at the event?\n\nWhile I would encourage the executive branch for what they're doing\, would want to stand behind it... - Uh-oh.\n\n- Senat or Christie\, I think\, is\, is correct that the power of the purse belong s with Congress.\n\nAnd if the courts decide that the executive branch can unilaterally eliminate these programs\, then the next time you elect a le ft-wing president\, he can unilaterally restore these programs.\n\nTANG: W ow.\n\nScott\, some tough calls.\n\nSo I think\, I think I'm okay with the speaker because he obviously shares the president's vision about what the outcome needs to be.\n\nAnd we actually do agree\, uh\, that we would lik e to see some permanency in the restoration of fiscal sanity to the nation al budget.\n\nTANG: Okay.\n\nFolks\, the press starts to enter the room\, and one of our members of the press is Lesley Stahl.\n\nYou are the senior White House correspondent for the Global News Network\, GNN.\n\nAs you ar e walking in\, you get a phone call.\n\nYou look down at your phone\, and it's from corporate headquarters... Ooh... TANG: ...parent company of GNN. \n\nAnd somebody at the parent company says\, \"Lesley\, you know we are o n thin ice \"with the Powerton administration.\n\n\"This might be our last press conference \"if we don't get this one right.\n\n\"So\, please\, if you get a chance to ask a question\, \"make it a softball\, \"something th at will make President Powerton look good \"or at least okay.\n\nWill you please do that?\"\n\nI\, I hear what you're saying\, but I have to do my j ob.\n\nThis is what I was hired to do... TANG: Fierce.\n\n- ...ask tough q uestions.\n\nThat's my role in society.\n\nTANG: So it's not a hard call f or you\, what you say.\n\nBut I have to ask you this\, Lesley\, if this is \, in fact\, your last press conference in that seat\, who do you think th e administration will put in the seat at the next press conference?\n\nIs it a media outlet that will scrutinize the administration the same way tha t you and that GNN would?\n\nNo.\n\nBut to be honest\, I don't think you h ave to be sitting at the White House to cover the president.\n\nAnd I thin k you're freer to cover the president in the way I think the press should handle these tough issues... TANG: Okay.\n\nSTAHL: ...from outside because you can become a captive when you're inside the gate.\n\nTANG: Okay.\n\nM r. Jennings\, do you want to kick off the event?\n\n- Absolutely.\n\nTANG: Who are you gonna call?\n\nIs your hand up\, Lesley?\n\nSTAHL: Oh\, yeah. \n\nTANG: Who are you gonna call?\n\nIs there only one journalist...?\n\n( laughter) Yes\, I'm willing to call on Lesley Stahl.\n\nTANG: Lesley.\n\nS TAHL: My question is about the farmers.\n\nThis is a huge\, important\, uh \, block within your constituency\, um\, and I know that they are not at a ll pleased.\n\nSo please address the problems that the farms are having.\n \nJENNINGS: President Powerton loves farmers.\n\nWe know that.\n\nAnd ulti mately what we think we're gonna be able to do is give them better economi c opportunities to make a living without having to have artificial income supports from the federal government.\n\nSTAHL: But why aren't you leaving this up to Congress?\n\nI mean\, to the speaker\, this whole structure th at the founders organized is crumbling.\n\nDon't you have a responsibility to hold up\, as Nancy Pelosi used to say all the time\, to hold up the po wer of your institution?\n\nLesley\, appreciate the question.\n\nUh\, Spea ker Pelosi's not the model that I'm looking to follow\, but\, um\, nonethe less\, I think that it is our job in the legislative branch to\, uh\, figh t for the power of purse.\n\nAnd we're the ones that allocate the resource s.\n\nAnd it's also our jobs to pass legislation that cuts these programs. \n\nCongress has an essential role.\n\nIt's the role of the purse.\n\nSEVE RINO: But Congress has refused to act.\n\nThe\, the budget is out of contr ol.\n\nThe American people spoke loudly.\n\nAnd may I add\, the only perso n who has the weight of the entirety of the American people behind him is the president.\n\nEverybody else gets elected by constituents or a state.\ n\nOnly the president speaks for the entirety of the American people.\n\nA nd the American people have said\, \"Enough is enough.\n\nWe have to cut t he spending and give it back to the Americans.\"\n\nTANG: Let's get some q uotes from the opposition party\, who hasn't had a chance to chime in yet. \n\nWe have Senator Tim Ryan\, United States Senator\, in fact the Senate minority leader.\n\nAnd we have Middlevania's very own attorney general\, elected attorney general\, Dan Goldman.\n\nWho are you gonna call first?\n \nI c...\n\nI would call the senator first.\n\nRYAN: Good to be a senator\ , I guess.\n\n(laughter) STAHL: Um\, I assume you saw the press conference from the White House.\n\nUm\, what do you think about the\, the legal iss ue\, and what do you think about the power of Congress?\n\nI would like to challenge the Speaker of the House\, the president of the Senate\, to sta nd up for the Constitution.\n\nThe founders\, who were breaking free from a king\, wanted the people to have the power and the authority.\n\nTo acqu iesce to the president\, I think is\, is tragic\, uh\, and completely unde rmining our democracy.\n\nTANG: Okay.\n\nLesley\, do you have a question f or Attorney General Goldman?\n\nSTAHL: Given the legal issues involved her e\, and the fact that you are the attorney general of the farm state\, whi ch will be hurt dramatically\, is there anything you can do um\, to get th at money back for your farmers?\n\nYes.\n\nI'll immediately be filing a la wsuit\, uh\, for a violation of the Impoundment Control Act.\n\nIt does no t allow for a president to unilaterally\, uh\, cancel appropriated funds.\ n\nIt is\, uh\, the law of the land.\n\nAnd we will protect our farmers at any cost.\n\nWe have heard a very forceful case for the president's power to save this money for the American people.\n\nAnd we've also heard some competing arguments.\n\nLet's return to Middlevania\, to the Tester family farm.\n\nFarmer Jon\, I heard you have that big audience on the YouTube w ith the tractor repair videos\, you know the ones?\n\n300\,000 subscribers \, right?\n\nWill you make a video and tell your people what's really happ ening to us with this GBB thing?\n\nWhat I would say is\, is\, uh\, I will \, but there's got to be more than just me.\n\nTANG: Okay.\n\n- There's go t to be more people so that it\, so that it looks as broad-base of a probl em as what I and you think it is.\n\nTANG: Are there any risks?\n\nSarah\, will you tell your uncle is there anything he should worry about before h e posts this video on his tractor channel?\n\nSure.\n\nI mean\, anytime yo u're calling attention to yourself in the political arena\, uh\, there's h uge risks within your community\, within your church.\n\nYou could get thr eats.\n\nYou could have people\, um\, coming to protest your farm or vanda lize your farm.\n\nAnd that can be really dangerous.\n\nTESTER: I'm willin g to take the risk.\n\nBut there needs to be more than just me.\n\nTANG: O kay.\n\nYou get a phone call from Middlevania's attorney general\, Dan Gol dman.\n\nHe is gonna file a lawsuit for the farmers of Middlevania\, and h e wants to know if you will join him.\n\nAbsolutely.\n\nTANG: Attorney Gen eral Goldman\, you have sued\, asking a court for an order that the presid ent cannot unilaterally shut down the Green Business Bureau and defund it without Congress.\n\nYes.\n\nUh\, Article One makes it very clear that Con gress has the power of the purse.\n\nThe president can come back to Congre ss with any recommendation to cut the GBB\, but the president cannot do it unilaterally.\n\nTANG: Okay\, so you filed this lawsuit.\n\nYou're asking for a court order that the Green Business Bureau be reopened.\n\nWho's th e defendant in that lawsuit?\n\nIt's you\, Roger Severino.\n\nThe presiden t was so pleased with your performance at the press event that he fired th e old GBB director\, and he put you in charge.\n\nYou're the new acting di rector.\n\nAnd as he gave you that job\, he winked at you.\n\nAnd he said\ , \"Roger\, you know the assignment.\n\n\"We've got to shut this thing dow n for the American people.\n\n\"And after you do that\, I've got your back .\n\nAny job you want in my administration\, it's yours.\"\n\nBut unfortun ately for you\, the federal judge in the district where Attorney General G oldman chose to file this lawsuit has issued an order requiring Director S everino to reopen the Green Business Bureau offices nationwide.\n\nNow\, R oger\, it's a moment of truth.\n\nYou have a mandate from your president.\ n\nYou have a core value about returning money to the American people.\n\n But you have a federal court order telling you you can't do it.\n\nWhat ar e you gonna do?\n\nSEVERINO: Well\, you can't have single judges dictating what a federal agency can or cannot do within the scope of the authority of the president.\n\nTANG: You need to make a decision.\n\nAre you going t o comply with the district court's order and reopen the Green Business Bur eau?\n\nWell\, if this single district judge wants to run my department\, we'll see how\, how well that goes.\n\nTANG: What does that mean\, Directo r Severino?\n\nAre you going to say\, \"No\, I'm not complying with this o rder\"?\n\nIs that what you're saying?\n\nAre you gonna... SEVERINO: No\, no.\n\nWe're\, we're gonna see how much stomach this judge has for this so rt of fight.\n\nBecause I think the Supreme Court will back us all the way .\n\nAnd if this judge wants to run my department\, have at it\, good luck with that.\n\nTANG: Okay\, folks.\n\nA week goes by after the federal jud ge has issued her order.\n\nTwo weeks.\n\nFolks like Jon are still not get ting their grant checks.\n\nAnd the American people don't know what to mak e of it.\n\nThey're looking around for somebody in the room to make a deci sion as to what is gonna happen when we've got a dispute over power betwee n a federal judge and the president's administration.\n\nAllyson K. Duncan \, You are the chief justice of the Supreme Court of the United States.\n\ nWhat's going through your mind?\n\nAre you worried to be watching a distr ict judge battling with the president's administration\, arguing about who 's gonna follow the law\, what the law is\, like this?\n\nIs that concerni ng for you?\n\n- I worry about everything that affects the integrity of th e court and the way in which it is regarded.\n\nThe federal judiciary\, th e judiciary\, is the weakest branch of government.\n\nIt lacks the power o f the purse\, which Congress has\, and the power of the sword\, which the president has.\n\nTANG: Are you worried that Director Severino hasn't full y complied with this order right away?\n\nDoes that worry you?\n\nIt certa inly worries me.\n\nIf the money leaves the gate\, we're not getting it ba ck.\n\nThat's the fact.\n\nThe president was elected to end the wasteful s pending.\n\nIf we reopen it\, that money's gone forever.\n\nWe're not gett ing it back.\n\nAnd that's hurting the American taxpayer.\n\nTANG: Attorne y General Goldman\, should those checks be going out the door while the fu ll case makes its way up?\n\nAbsolutely.\n\nAnd while I appreciate that th e president thinks that every single thing he does is valid because he won an election\, unfortunately\, every president wins an election.\n\nSo tha t's not actually a grounds to stop the payment.\n\nTANG: So\, Chief Justic e Duncan\, there is a person on this panel\, in fact\, who you know very w ell.\n\nThey're a former law clerk of yours\, smartest law clerk you've ev er had.\n\nYou trust her judgment implicitly.\n\nIt's Sarah Isgur.\n\nWoul d you give Sarah a call and ask her to help think through this case with y ou\, how you might approach it?\n\nAbsolutely not.\n\n(laughter) She's not working for me now.\n\nShe is\, she is not-- we are not in confidential r elationship with one another.\n\nShe can clerk for me now.\n\nYou can come back and clerk for me now.\n\nTANG: Would you clerk for her now\, or do y ou want to use a different...\n\nI've already clerked for her\, yes?\n\nTA NG: You've already clerked for her once.\n\nYeah.\n\n- Yeah\, I'm not goin g back.\n\nTANG: You're not going back.\n\n- (laughter) TANG: What a lonel y job\, Chief Justice Duncan.\n\nFortunately\, Sarah\, you have a platform of your own.\n\nYou are\, in fact\, a prominent social commentator.\n\nYo u've got a podcast.\n\nAnd Chief Justice Duncan is a big fan of the podcas t.\n\nSo you can say what you think about this case and maybe she'll hear it.\n\nWho should win?\n\nShould attorney general win\, and these checks g o out the door\, or should Director Severino?\n\nISGUR: Yeah\, I don't thi nk this is a close call.\n\nFor many of the arguments that the attorney ge neral has made\, this is simply not within the powers of the president.\n\ nAll the more so because Congress debated this\, had bills in front of it\ , and rejected them.\n\nThey didn't have the votes.\n\nThe process is supp osed to be exactly that.\n\nAnd if you don't have the popular political wi ll to pass it through Congress\, which is meant to be hard and annoying an d long and compromising\, then you don't get to do it.\n\nAnd just because you were elected president of the nation\, I don't give two anythings abo ut who elected you or by how much.\n\n(laughter) So Chief Justice Duncan.. . - Yes.\n\nTANG: ...we've heard the arguments.\n\nAnd you do have to cast a vote in this very hard case.\n\nDUNCAN: Okay.\n\n- What's it going to b e?\n\nI\, I vote that the president does not have the authority to cancel. \n\nTANG: The Supreme Court has spoken.\n\nLet's call it a five-four vote. \n\nDirector Severino\, what are you gonna do?\n\nYou have to comply with that order.\n\nAs erroneous as it may be.\n\n(chuckling) We get that half the time.\n\nUh\, it was close\, unexpected\, five-four.\n\nBut it's one o f those things where\, if the court has spoken in this sense... ...we'd ha ve to comply with it.\n\nNow\, doesn't mean it's the end of the fight.\n\n We will show how extraordinarily harmful this will be to the American peop le.\n\nI want to come to Senator Christie for a comment.\n\nYou maybe call ed it.\n\nYou could have an \"I told you so\" moment.\n\nDo you go to the press and comment on this order?\n\nNo.\n\nI\, I go to the president.\n\nA nd I'm part of his party.\n\nUm\, I have the president's cell phone number \, and I call him.\n\nUh\, I'd go around Jennings and call him.\n\nI'd say to him\, \"You know\, Mr. President\, \"I'd like to cut Tester's funding\ , too.\n\n\"But I\, I want to cut it in a way that makes sense...\" TANG: Okay.\n\n...and that doesn't get overturned by the court.\"\n\nI wouldn't go to the press.\n\nThe press all knows I was right already.\n\nSo there's no reason for me to go back and reiterate it.\n\nTANG: All right.\n\nLesl ey Stahl.\n\nThe American people are very confused.\n\nThere's been a lot of orders\, questionable compliance.\n\nThe people are looking to you for clarity.\n\nWhat's your headline?\n\nHow are you covering this?\n\nSTAHL: Well\, the first thing I would do is that\, uh\, I would call Chris Christ ie and encourage him to leak to me every little thing that's going on.\n\n TANG: Senator Christie would never leak anything to you.\n\nYou don't know him very well.\n\n(laughter) Do you see what I'm dealing with every day?\ n\nI guess the headline is that\, uh\, \"The President Loses.\"\n\n\"Presi dent Loses.\"\n\nScott Jennings.\n\nLet me tell you something\, the presid ent didn't lose.\n\nThe American people lost.\n\nBut that's okay\, because we think we have enough allies in Congress to ultimately get what we want \, even if it's on delay.\n\nTANG: Okay.\n\nFolks\, we've had a big battle .\n\nCongress passed the law appropriating money for the Green Business Bu reau.\n\nThe president tried to cancel it.\n\nAnd the Supreme Court has ru led for Congress.\n\nPresident Powerton\, as you might expect\, is not hap py.\n\nHis supporters are not happy.\n\nThey're criticizing federal judges .\n\nCriticism is part of our tradition.\n\nThat's what democracy is.\n\nO kay\, so you're comfortable with criticizing federal courts.\n\nSenator Ry an\, is it appropriate to criticize federal judges?\n\nRYAN: Absolutely.\n \nAbsolutely.\n\nHave you criticized federal courts from time to time?\n\n RYAN: From time to time.\n\nTANG: Sounds like folks are very comfortable w ith criticism of judges.\n\nIt's American.\n\nRight to free speech.\n\nDUN CAN: Criticism is legitimate.\n\nThreats are not.\n\nSo will you make a pu blic statement?\n\nI will\, because I believe that this is important.\n\nI 've had death threats.\n\nI know what it's like to have my name and face a ppear on a program with a death threat from someone who didn't even unders tand the reading.\n\nThank you\, Chief Justice.\n\nFolks\, let's go back t o the White House.\n\nThe president can't believe that the Supreme Court h as ruled against him.\n\nBut he's got an idea.\n\nHe's got an idea for how he's going to fight back.\n\nAnd so he calls you into his office\, Albert o Gonzales.\n\nYou are now the United States Attorney General.\n\nPresiden t Powerton calls you in and says\, \"Mr. Attorney General\, priority numbe r one\, investigate Dan Goldman.\"\n\nYou'll do that\, right?\n\nInvestiga te Middlevania's attorney general\, Dan Goldman.\n\nWhat do you say to him ?\n\n\"Obviously\, this is a great concern to you\, \"Mr. President\, and\ , and we'll look at it.\n\n\"But I'm going to only move forward in an inve stigation \"and prosecution if\, in the judgment of my team\, we believe t hat something illegal has\, has occurred here.\"\n\nThe president says\, \ "Some of my loyal followers \"have been taking pictures\, photographs\, \" of Mr. Goldman's home.\n\nAnd it looks like he's gotten some fancy upgrade s lately.\"\n\nYou know\, of course\, that Mr. Goldman is now running for the United States Senate in Middlevania.\n\nThere's an open seat\, it's no t Senator Christie's seat.\n\nYou're good.\n\n- Thank you.\n\n(laughter) T oo bad.\n\nTANG: But the other seat is open\, and if he is using campaign funds to upgrade his house\, that would be illegal.\n\nSo you'll investiga te him now\, won't you?\n\nWe might-- we may look at that.\n\nYes\, we may look at that\, but without\, without it becoming public.\n\nThe president is looking at you and says\, \"I'll tell you what\, Mr. Attorney General\ , \"I want to make a statement to the press that the attorney general\, Mr . Goldman\, is under investigation.\"\n\nI would urge you\, Mr. President\ , not to make that statement.\n\nWe don't talk about pending investigation s publicly.\n\nTANG: What is driving you to resist the president's request ?\n\nIt's not the law.\n\nI don't hear you saying it would be illegal or u nlawful... Because we keep politics... if this is driven by politics\, we absolutely are not going to engage in any kind of investigation\, prosecut ion of our political enemies.\n\nWe don't do that.\n\nTANG: Would you call it... Would you call it a norm?\n\nWhat?\n\nThat we... TANG: That we don' t investigate our political enemies.\n\nAb... absolutely.\n\nTANG: You can tell president's not very happy with your answer.\n\nHe wanted you to be on his side.\n\nGONZALES: I've been there.\n\nI've been there.\n\nTANG: Ok ay.\n\nDecision time.\n\nThe president says\, \"I'm going to issue this pr ess statement.\n\n\"I've changed my mind: it's not seven days\, it's 24 ho urs.\n\n\"And I need to know if you will sign it\, \"as my attorney genera l\, that we are investigating \"Dan Goldman for campaign finance violation s.\n\nCan I put your name on it?\"\n\nFirst of all\, I would try to talk h im out of this.\n\nYou've tried.\n\nHe's very stubborn.\n\n(chuckling) GON ZALES: Then I would tell the president\, \"Mr. President... \"I can't sign this statement.\n\n\"And if that means that you would like me to resign\, then I will... then I will resign.\"\n\nI\, I've been in the Oval Office before with a resignation letter in my pocket.\n\nIt's not easy.\n\nTANG: It's not easy.\n\nBut you have to do what you believe is right in the inte rest of justice.\n\nOkay.\n\nI'm sorry to tell you\, you are no longer the United States Attorney General.\n\n(laughter) Mr. Severino.\n\nSEVERINO: The resignation is the proper course if you cannot execute it.\n\nBut the president is going to find somebody that will eventually follow his orders .\n\nHe wants to know if it'll be you.\n\nHe wants to know if you will inv estigate a person-- there is plausible evidence.\n\nWe've got the photogra phs.\n\nYou were good on the Green Business Bureau.\n\nWould you?\n\nYeah\ , if there's enough there there\, then I would investigate.\n\nTANG: You w ould investigate.\n\nThere would have to be sufficient suspicion.\n\nTANG: Well\, that's what we're finding out\, to find... SEVERINO: Right.\n\nLoo k\, we're not like the communists-- \"Show me the man\, I'll show you the crime.\"\n\nRight\, we don't do that in the United States.\n\nBut if there is enough there\, there... TANG: Yeah.\n\n- Then I would be able to inves tigate.\n\nTANG: Okay.\n\nIt all depends on the facts.\n\n- Yes.\n\nSEVERI NO: But the president does get to say\, \"We ought to look into this area. \"\n\n- Okay.\n\n- Look\, if the president says we're going to take down t he mob in New York... - Yes.\n\n- ...you go to New York and you shake down mobsters\, right?\n\nSo\, the president can order the attorney general... - Congratulations\, you are now the Attorney General of the United States .\n\n(laughter) CHRISTIE: Not so fast\, because I think Ryan and I have so mething to say about that.\n\nAnd if Gonzales resigned because he felt he was asked to do something by the president of the United States that was u nethical\, you can imagine that would be questions one through 50 for Seve rino at his confirmation hearing.\n\nTANG: Okay.\n\n- So\, not so fast.\n\ nTANG: Not so fast.\n\n- Not so fast on the attorney general... TANG: Acti ng Attorney General of the United States\, Roger Severino.\n\nAnd the pres ident says... \"Priority number two\, investigate that farmer guy who's on TV criticizing me.\"\n\nWill you do that?\n\nThere would have to be some basis.\n\nTANG: Oh\, he says... SEVERINO: ...to suspect A crime was done\, a federal crime.\n\nTANG: Totally.\n\nHe's looking on his desk\, he's lik e... \"He's got that tractor side hustle.\n\n\"You know people like this\, they don't report their income\, taking deductions.\"\n\nIRS\, everybody' s committed a little bit of tax fraud.\n\n(chuckling) TANG: Will you inves tigate Farmer Jon?\n\nFor tax fraud?\n\nThat would be a tough one.\n\nTANG : That would be a tough one?\n\nBecause I\, I know the context\, you see.\ n\nAnd I would go through the same thought process as my predecessor attor ney general\, that we should not be targeting our political enemies and se lectively enforce our law.\n\nSo you agree with the norm\, we should not u se the power of prosecution against a political enemy.\n\nThat should not. .. that should not be the way the law enforced... the law is enforced.\n\n No\, we are\, we are better than that as a nation.\n\nOkay.\n\nSo... You'r e not the attorney general anymore\, and Mr. Severino is no longer the att orney general\, either.\n\n(laughter) - Resigned.\n\nTANG: The president f inds another acting attorney general who will investigate Farmer Jon.\n\nM r. Tester\, you are under the most intrusive level of audit that the IRS c an perform.\n\nAnd I'm curious\, what's happening in your life now that yo u've been targeted in this way by the president?\n\nAre your kids\, your s pouse\, are they affected?\n\nYou've got to defend yourself.\n\nThat's add itional resources that are going out the door\, in a marginally... uh\, fi nancial situation.\n\nTANG: Yeah.\n\nSo\, it would probably push you over\ , you'd lose the farm quicker.\n\nYou mentioned your bank account.\n\nTEST ER: Yeah.\n\n- With lawyers' bills... TESTER: Yeah.\n\n- You've hit empty. \n\nYeah.\n\nTANG: So you call your niece\, who is\, after all\, the great est niece in the world.\n\nSarah\, you call around to some law firms.\n\nA nd crickets.\n\nNo one is willing to represent the farmer who is the presi dent's outspoken critic.\n\nWhat's happening?\n\nWhy not?\n\nObviously\, t he president's threats have worked and it's chilling people from wanting t o stand against the administration.\n\nIs that a problem?\n\nYeah.\n\n(lau ghter) TANG: But why?\n\nI mean\, are we really worried about elite DC\, N ew York\, San Francisco lawyers who are being cowed into silence?\n\nThey' re going to be fine\, they're rich.\n\nHow does it affect Americans?\n\nLe gal representation is at the foundation of our adversarial system.\n\nIf y ou're being accused of a crime under investigation\, just being under inve stigation alone will really require having legal representation.\n\nGreat legal representation\, ideally.\n\nAnd so\, if lawyers don't feel free to take on unpopular clients because of the political atmosphere\, then we've lost what we founded this country to do.\n\nTANG: Mr. Brat\, one final wo rd.\n\nBRAT: Yeah\, I just want to weigh on this... this-- the moral issue here and the legal issue is clouded by the fact that this President Power guy was targeted back in '16.\n\nYou have some concerns.\n\nBRAT: A few.\ n\n- About the other side... BRAT: Yes\, yes.\n\nTANG: ...using prosecutor ial power.\n\nThis is nothing new\, in other words.\n\nTANG: I understand. \n\nYes.\n\nWe're going to fast forward a little bit\, because I have some news.\n\nThere's a special election in Middlevania.\n\nAnd our winner of the election is none other than Attorney General Dan Goldman.\n\nSenator G oldman\, congratulations.\n\nThank you so much.\n\n(laughter) TANG: So\, t he House and the Senate were under control of the Powerton party by the sl immest of margins\, and the Senate was 50 to 50.\n\nSo that one election f lips control.\n\nWhich means\, Senator Ryan\, congratulations.\n\nYou are now the Senate majority leader.\n\nYou've got power\, maybe you've got som e options.\n\nso you are hosting a strategy call with some other prominent members of your party.\n\nIt's on Zoom.\n\nSenator-elect Goldman has join ed the Zoom call from his phone.\n\nMr. Tester is on the call.\n\nHe is ga ining some prominence in the party\, considering a run for public office h imself.\n\nHelp us think through what the opposition party's strategy shou ld be.\n\nShould you resist President Powerton at all costs or try to reac h across the aisle and find common ground?\n\nFrom kind of the power strug gle that we were talking about here earlier\, I think it would be construc tive.\n\nI think the American people want to see us working together.\n\nT ESTER: Absolutely\, unequivocally.\n\nYou reach across the aisle\, you try to find people that you can work with on the other side of the aisle and within your own party to retake the legislative branch's... power.\n\nTANG : Hold on\, I'm sorry.\n\nHold on.\n\nYou were under investigation... TEST ER: Yeah.\n\nFrom President Powerton's Department of Justice.\n\n- Yep.\n\ nTANG: An IRS audit.\n\nYou were almost bankrupted\, you almost lost the f arm.\n\nYeah.\n\nTANG: And now you want to work together?\n\nYeah.\n\nWith his administration\, his party?\n\nI\, I work with the people in the Cong ress to come up with a plan to take the power back that the executive bran ch has taken from the legislative branch.\n\nTANG: Wow.\n\n- Absolutely.\n \nIf\, if you go in with personal axes to grind\, and\, \"I want to just g rind this ax\,\" totally ineffective.\n\nAnd I want to be effective\, I wa nt to make sure this democracy works the way the forefathers intended.\n\n TANG: Senator-elect Goldman\, are you in agreement?\n\nNo.\n\n(laughter) I am salivating at the subpoena power.\n\n(laughter) TANG: You want to take it to the president?\n\nGOLDMAN: Well... You don't want to cooperate?\n\n I think you go on two different pathways.\n\nUm...\n\nThe abuse of power t hrough executive orders has to be reckoned with through oversight and\, if necessary\, through the subpoena power.\n\nTANG: The strategy call is dif ficult.\n\nYou can see the opposition party struggling with the weight of governing.\n\nBut while the Zoom strategy call is happening\, all of a sud den... loud boom.\n\nThere has been a terrible car accident.\n\nSomebody s lammed into Senator-elect Goldman as he was getting out of his car.\n\nHe' s in the hospital.\n\nHe's been badly injured\, but he will survive.\n\nTh e driver of the vehicle was a 28-year-old man named Kent Knightley.\n\nHe says it was an accident.\n\nKent Knightley is tried\, convicted of felony assault.\n\nPresident Powerton's most fervent supporters are sharing memes saying \"Pardon Kent Knightley.\"\n\nNow\, many of you are at a meeting w ith the president when he brings this up.\n\n\"Have you guys heard how the y're calling \"this Kent Knightley kid a hero?\n\n\"I think they might be right.\n\nI think I'm going to pardon him.\"\n\nSenator Christie?\n\nI wou ld advise the president that\, you know\, he should look very carefully at the factors that are considered historically for these type of pardons to be granted.\n\nI would say to him\, you know\, it would be a very\, very unpopular decision to do that.\n\nBut it's his call.\n\nIt's...\n\nIt's th e president's judgment.\n\nThat's why we need to elect presidents with jud gment.\n\n(laughter) TANG: We've got something really interesting happenin g over at this table.\n\nConstitution of the United States is out on the t able.\n\nChief Justice Duncan\, Mr. Severino\, working together\, despite being on opposite sides\, looking at the Constitution.\n\nAny thoughts?\n\ nSEVERINO: Well\, yeah\, it goes back... DUNCAN: Excuse me\, I'm not on a side.\n\n(chuckling) Fair enough.\n\nSEVERINO: On the side of the Constitu tion.\n\n(applause) - Touché.\n\nTouché.\n\nSEVERINO: So\, it goes back to an earlier point: can you weaponize the justice system?\n\nAnd some pol itical parties do\, and some presidents do on occasion.\n\nVery recently\, we've had that experience of weaponization.\n\nThe pardon power is actual ly a check on that weaponization.\n\nIf one president goes too far\, the n ext president could pardon the people who are unjustly prosecuted for poli tical reasons.\n\nTANG: Okay.\n\n- Yeah.\n\nTANG: The president likes what he's hearing.\n\nThe president says... \"Roger\, absolutely.\"\n\nThe oth er side\, right\, they... Maybe he should have kept him as attorney genera l.\n\nTANG (laughing): Maybe... he's rethinking it.\n\nJENNINGS: Well\, th e discussion in the room among the president's advisors is very simple.\n\ n\"Can\" does not mean \"should.\"\n\nAnd as a political advisor to the pr esident\, the correct thing to say here is\, \"You can do this\, \"but you have to ask yourself whether you should do it \"as it relates to your own personal political influence in this country and your legacy.\"\n\nTANG: The president listens to everybody.\n\nHe really appreciates what you said \, Roger\, and he says to you\, \"You know what?\n\n\"The other side did t his.\n\n\"They were out there pardoning friends\, family members.\n\nI'm p ardoning Kent Knightley.\"\n\nFolks\, the Powerton administration continue s.\n\nIt's a bumpy ride\, but eventually he has to run for re-election\, a nd ladies and gentlemen\, he loses.\n\nHe loses to a firebrand young gover nor named Dana Novo.\n\nDana Novo is the president of the United States.\n \nHer vice president is somebody who's in this room\, a citizen whose plai n-talking style has connected with the American people.\n\n(laughter) Gold man.\n\n(laughter) TANG: Congratulations\, Mr. Tester\, you're now the vic e president of the United States.\n\n- Perfect.\n\n(applause) - God\, what a country.\n\nCHRISTIE: So sorry.\n\nI'm so sorry\, Jon.\n\n- Yeah\, I kn ow.\n\nTANG: Only in America.\n\n- What was that about a warm bucket of sp it?\n\n(laughter) TANG: You're going to have a chance\, Mr. Vice President \, to give some advice to your new president\, President Novo\, but right now she's on TV.\n\nShe's on TV giving a speech.\n\nIt's her first week in office\, she's rallying the base.\n\nSo here's what she says.\n\nShe says \, \"We fought against \"President Powerton's overreach at every turn.\n\n \"There were no limits on what President Powerton could do.\n\n\"Well\, tu rnabout is fair play.\n\n\"I am going to \"defund an institution\, an agen cy \"that we all know is wasteful.\n\n\"It's the Department of Defense.\n\ n\"$800 billion it spends.\n\n(panelist chuckling) \"I'm issuing an execut ive order\, \"cutting spending by 20%.\n\n\"The waste\, we're going to fin d it\, \"and we're going to cut it\, \"and here's what we're going to do w ith it.\n\n\"We're going to spend that money on the true source of \"Ameri can national security\, our public schools.\n\n\"We're going to buy books\ , not bombs.\n\nI'm calling it Operation Education.\"\n\nSenator Christie\ , you\, at the very beginning\, made a comment that predicted a lot of thi s.\n\nYou said\, \"You want to reduce funding at a federal agency\, go thr ough Congress.\"\n\nNow\, a president of the opposing party wants to do th e same thing.\n\nYou could run a victory lap.\n\nYou could tell us\, \"I t old you so.\"\n\nIt would be appropriate.\n\nAnything you'd like to say?\n \nYeah\, well\, now you do a press conference.\n\n(laughter) Sure\, now yo u definitely do a press conference\, and\, and you go after the current pr esident for\, I'm sure\, that the current president had negative things to say about President Powerton trying to cut the GBB.\n\nSo I would have my staff go and find those comments.\n\nAnd I would say\, you know\, the pre sident is a hypocrite.\n\nTANG: Okay.\n\nCHRISTIE: That the current presid ent isn't the flaming star you talked about\, but is a flaming hypocrite.. . TANG: Is a hypocrite.\n\n- ...for\, you know\, having prosecuted the cas e against the GBB\, but now is trying to do what I consider substantively the same thing.\n\nTANG: Mr. Severino\, do you agree that President Novo d oes have the legal power to cancel spending at the Department of Defense?\ n\nCancel\, yes.\n\nReallocate spending that was appropriated is a differe nt question.\n\nTANG: Got it.\n\nSo you would tell members of Powerton's b ase that\, yes\, she can cut $160 billion in defense spending.\n\nWhat you can't do is buy your kids books or good teachers.\n\nWouldn't frame it th at way.\n\n(laughter) TANG: Do you have any regrets about making such bold claims to presidential power when Powerton was in office now that the sho e is on the other foot?\n\nSEVERINO: No\, you have to be consistent about it.\n\nNow\, unfortunately\, we lost the Supreme Court\, so now they have to apply by those exact same rules-- play by those same rules\, so.\n\nTAN G: Oh.\n\nIs that what you were going to say\, Mr. Jennings?\n\nAbsolutely .\n\nWe had a legal point of view on it at the time\, we lost.\n\nWe tried to work with the Congress on it.\n\nThe new administration-- by the way\, I'd just like to get a little sympathy for Roger and I being unemployed a t this point.\n\n(laughter) And... and that\, you know\, that's the rules of the road.\n\nNow you got to play by the\, by the Supreme Court ruling.\ n\nAre you a little bit grateful now that the shoe is on the other foot\, that the Supreme Court\, our third branch of government\, has ruled agains t you on the first case?\n\nI'm neither grateful nor ingrateful.\n\nI just react to the circumstances as they exist in the moment.\n\nAt the time\, I was the president's spokesperson.\n\nWe had a point of view\, we lost\, and now I expect every subsequent administration to abide by that or have their own point of view.\n\nAnd when I'm\, you know\, the next administrat ion's spokesperson\, I'll... (chuckles) I'll abide by their point of view at that time as well.\n\nHe's enjoying his time in the private sector righ t now.\n\n(laughter) TANG: Chief Justice Duncan.\n\nAs you know\, the Supr eme Court establishes precedent in every case.\n\nIt's not necessarily bou nd\, except to the extent that it wishes to be viewed as consistent by wha t prior Supreme Courts have held\, but they are very clear about the facts of a case and whether those facts are on all fours.\n\nSubsequent facts.\ n\nJENNINGS: I will give you some political advice\, though\, which is tha t there's a big darn difference between canceling Farmer Jon's solar panel s and turning off the national security of the United States.\n\nAnd I do appreciate that\, and if I took political advice\, I would value it.\n\n(l aughter and applause) TANG: Senator Ryan\, Vice President-elect Tester\, S enator Goldman\, you are sitting in the Oval Office when President Novo co mes into the office after the speech\, and she's looking for high-fives.\n \n\"We did it.\n\nWe took it to them.\n\nEverything Powerton did\,\" right ?\n\n\"We're using it on him now.\n\nThis is great.\n\nIt's our moment.\"\ n\nSenator Goldman\, would you support her effort to use bold claims about presidential power for what she believes is good?\n\nNo\, I\, I think tha t you've got to follow the law.\n\nAnd that the law has to be adhered to\, regardless of which party.\n\nAnd unfortunately for our party\, we genera lly take the high road and make sure that we follow the law\, whereas... s ometimes that's not always the case in President Powerton's party.\n\nThat 's why he's the junior senator from our state.\n\n(laughter) TANG: Mr. Vic e President.\n\nThis country's been around for nearly 250 years and\, and we've got a constitution that is really the basis for this country moving forward.\n\nFollow the Constitution.\n\nMr. Vice President Tester has made a powerful plea to his president\, \"Please don't do this.\"\n\nIs that w hat you're saying?\n\nThat's exactly correct.\n\nTANG: Please don't do thi s.\n\nI am president of the Senate\, as vice president\, so yes.\n\nTANG: You are president of the Senate.\n\nPresident Novo looks at you and she sh akes her head.\n\nShe says\, \"No\, this is the way the game is played now .\n\nAnd as you shuffle out of the Oval Office\, you hear her call out som ething that sends shivers down your spine.\n\nShe says\, \"Bring me my att orney general.\n\nI've got a long list of political enemies.\"\n\nWe have one more question for all of the panelists.\n\nWe've seen a lot unfold tod ay.\n\nSome bold claims to power by presidents from two very different par ties.\n\nMaybe you were okay with some of those power plays.\n\nBut maybe you were deeply troubled.\n\nMy question for you is this: is there anythin g that we can do better\, anything we can agree on for how to move our cou ntry forward?\n\nISGUR: The source of a lot of these problems is Congress has dwindled in power and prestige.\n\nThe American people should be holdi ng Congress accountable for actually doing their job\, whether it's passin g appropriations\, reining in executive power\, insisting that their laws be actually passed\, holding investigations when they're not.\n\nNone of t hat is happening.\n\nAnd if you don't rein in executive power when it's yo ur guy in office\, then we're just on this never-ending cycle.\n\nTANG: Se nator Ryan.\n\nI think we need leaders with guts.\n\nLike we need leaders with\, with courage that are able to not just tell the opposition no\, but to tell your own party\, sometimes\, no.\n\nNo\, you're crossing a line.\ n\nTESTER: You've got to start talking to one another\, and you've got to develop trust.\n\nAnd that's how you do it\, and you use the Constitution as the foundation for moving forward.\n\nCongress can't be AWOL.\n\nGOLDMA N: I think the Senator Tester is correct that we have to be able to... TES TER: Vice President\, please.\n\n(laughter) RYAN: Way to go\, Jon.\n\n- So sorry.\n\n(laughter) That's why he's a freshman.\n\n(laughter) I...\n\nI think Mr. Vice President Tester is correct that we do need to be able to s it down and figure out a solution.\n\nBut before we get there\, we need ev erybody to commit to wanting to find a solution.\n\nSHORT: Strongly agree that Congress has abdicated a lot of responsibility.\n\nBut\, you know\, n ext year\, we celebrate 250 years of our country.\n\nAnd I think that we d on't often appreciate what an amazing system our founders created.\n\nBut our founders also said it's for a moral and highly educated people.\n\nAnd I think that\, right now\, we have a system that's electing performance a rtists in the highest levels of\, of government.\n\nAnd until the American people reclaim that responsibility\, I think you're going to continue to have challenges.\n\nAnd I think it\, it ultimately-- the system is working the way our founders intended\, but it's the responsibility of the Americ an people and the voters to elect people of high moral character who honor their oaths.\n\nYou know\, power is so intoxicating\, as we know.\n\nAnd so\, to place that power in someone who doesn't have the character to exer cise it responsibly\, as the president of the United States\, this is very \, very dangerous.\n\nOne last question.\n\nFolks\, is there any reason fo r hope?\n\nJENNINGS: I'm hopeful.\n\nAs long as we can speak and speak to each other\, and debate each other\, and vote and then do it all again two years later... it will-- it will all work out\, because this experiment i s working\, in my opinion\, even through troubled times.\n\nSTAHL: I'm not hopeful.\n\nTANG: You're not hopeful?\n\nSTAHL: I look at our institution s\, all of which have lost the respect and trust of the public.\n\nI worry about the future of democracy\, obviously.\n\nAnd I don't see the path ou t.\n\nSo\, I'm kind of down.\n\nTANG: Roger Severino.\n\nWell\, I'm hopefu l because the American people\, you never want to bet against them.\n\nAnd our system allows course correction.\n\nWe've gone through a massive cour se correction\, so I'm much more hopeful now than I was just a few months ago.\n\nAnd that really goes to the genius of our system.\n\nYou knew what you're getting once\, you try it out\, you see something different\, you don't like it\, you switch back.\n\nWhat really gives the\, the fundamenta l hope for us being able to go through all these problems\, still go home as Americans united because we know our democracy is what holds us togethe r.\n\nThis democracy is exactly what our founders represented it to be\, w hich is not perfect.\n\nAnd they say it right in the beginning of the Cons titution\, it was an effort to form a more perfect union.\n\nAnd so\, to m e\, I'm hopeful\, because I look at all the other alternatives out there-- I'm not moving.\n\nTANG: John Tester.\n\nThe young people that I've been around are going to do a hell of a lot better job of running this country than my generation.\n\nAnd I firmly believe that.\n\nAnd I think\, I tell them all the time\, \"Make a difference.\n\nRun for office.\n\n\"And then when you get in\, follow your gut\, because you got a better one than my g eneration has.\"\n\nTANG: And with that\, folks\, we bid farewell to Middl evania\, until the next time.\n\n(applause) - Thank you.\n\n- Thank you.\n \n- Appreciate it\, thank you.\n\n- Thank you so much.\n\n- Thank you so m uch.\n\nThank you.\n\nThank you\, Roger.\n\nAppreciate it.\n\nThank you.\n \n♪ ♪ ANNOUNCER: For more about \"Breaking the Deadlock\,\" visit us a t pbs.org/deadlock.\n\n♪ ♪ \"Breaking the Deadlock\" is available on a m*zon Prime Video.\n\n♪ ♪\n\n\n\n  \n\n DTSTART;VALUE=DATE:20250522 RRULE:FREQ=YEARLY;INTERVAL=1 END:VEVENT END:VCALENDAR