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TROY, DISCUSSION & RESPECT I have an inquiry about this community, but firstly, I want to say this: I want to just say, thank you Troy for having and maintaining this site, a site that I have been able to come to and learn and also share. I have a lot of respect for you for what you are doing. I love to engage in a scholarly debate on topics that I think revolve around the African American Community and topics that affect me, but I do not want to be insulting or disrespectful to anyone whether African American or not. I hope to obtain confirmations on certain topics of my interest and also learn new things. I could not even imagine what it takes to manage such a community, but I thank you for allowing me to be here in the little time that I have been so far. But now, I have an inquiry based on the tone that I am sensing due to some of the recent postings and debating that has been going on in some of the threads. I think that European Americans come from a background where they have conflicted violently amongst each other and the World Wars may be a marker for this, but what I wonder though, is that are people of African descent pre-conditioned or inherently different from other cultures in our well-known type of Black-vs-Black hatred meted out towards each other. Does the idea of ‘respect’ become impossible to do when we attempt to communicate and discuss issues that we feel may be important? Are we conditioned to feel that we must dominate and control each other’s thoughts and beliefs? What if another Black person disagrees with another stance, does this kind of disagreement warrant a slight or personal insult aimed to strike down, demean, bully and control? When a person has been dealt a personal attack on their character then, how should they respond in a community designed for discussion and debate? As for me, I come to this community to share and to gain other perspectives, but should I disagree, I am making a statement now, that I am going to ‘check myself’. There are some topics that are controversial but that should not mean that there is intent to harm. If I have offended someone wrongfully and it is brought to my attention, then I will try to make amends because I believe that this Discussion Community should not be used for the purpose of insulting another person. Some topics start out ‘intense’ but then humor is added in such a way that the interchange becomes a sharing experience. My coming here is not to attempt to control anyone or demean anyone who does not agree with me by dealing out personal insults or striking down someone’s humanity, freedom of speech or religious beliefs or whatever. If I write, for example, that I like psychedelic leaders, and then another poster states in response ‘that psychedelic leaders are freaks and practice beastiality’, well then, I might initially believe this is a personal attack, even after seeing valid references. Nevertheless, I am still going to try to receive it as criticism, but if there is truly no personal attack intended, then would it be so impossible to at least offer a respectful statement as an act of peaceful interchange? I want to share my beliefs and my research in hopes that I can gain or win someone over to what I have concluded but I have no intentions of hating or disrespecting anyone because of not agreeing with me. I hope that, at least, my input will be read and considered. But Troy, if I sense the urging to back off and leave this community that you have set up, then I will. I have much respect for the brilliance that so many Black African Americans and other people can bring to the table. But Hey!--If I am considered to stupid and ignorant to be respected too or to be given at least, the benefit of the doubt, and have my input weighed in on topics, I will refrain. Again, thank you Troy, for your genius.

Thank you for posting. I believe tat it's fine to attack and idea but not the person. I have been guilty of that more than once. I publicly apologised and felt quite contrite. It's great to be passionate however when it becomes aggressive, that's problematic. I don't think unity is possible amongst Black people. And I have used the dynamics that play out here as an example. I have been angered and saddened by the vindictiveness of of statements made to make a point. The Dove is an appropriate moniker. I have said you are so nice that I can't argue with you. I have also tried to change my debating style. Some perceptions of me are so ridiculous that I don't respond. And recently there seems to be an agitation or irritation that members display. Usually it towards one person. I want to do less of that venomous personal attack. It creates a negative vibe. At times I have found it so frustrating that I have gone on hiatus, or have not responded to statements.

@Chevdove hmm, this part has me conflicted on several levels. If you will, allow me to work it out. 1) How many close friends do you have of European descent? My ex-husband is closest and to let him tell it - I “hate” him. (Not really, but we’re a very close-knit family.) My last close white girlfriends was when I was in my 20s. We entered high school together, graduated, had babies etc.. We were close and would fall out of favor with each other and then get back together. I don’t think anyone would accuse us of black-vs-white hate... Folks just called us family. Couldn’t that be the same with black folks? Today, I roll alone - I have 3/5 heartbeats left and my sorority sisters. I no longer travel in a UN group or have white wo/men group to be petty in...no hatred to be meted out because there’s no group. Maybe those we tend to invest in emotionally are those who feel our wrath. Also, since Times Immemorial we’ve been fighting wars over resources and land - The europeans are on top now but this is the most recent history... “to the victor go the spoils” but should Africans act as if they’ve always been peaceful tree-hugging natives and this is the reason we’re getting our butts kicked? I say let us not go there... Currently, there are several brutal conflicts occurring throughout Africa ... There are several turf wars happening right here in metro atlanta - black folks gun-running human-trafficking and drug-selling... They don’t take prisoners either and unfortunately a police officer was just gunned down last night and the suspect is dead. We have folks fleeing el salvadore - honduras - guatemala because of gangs, guns, drugs... All this to say warmongers come in all colors and their goal is to control the resources - and each other. So possibly controlling other humans is the source of our collective malfunction. Maybe it is a human (pathological) behavior to annihilate those who oppose us.

I do my best to focus on the idea- if I’ve veered from this aspect in debate charge it to my head - not my heart.

Pioneer repeatedly accused me of lying when it came to his position on sex between adult males and young females. This is how it went down: He said "As long as they were above puberty and he didn't physically force himself on them, he's not a monster in my opinion." In another exchange between us, I reminded: "So in your opinion once puberty kicks in a female is fair game for any man seeking sex, no mater what her age is." Later i said to him: YOU are who brought up the subject of puberty being what transforms a female into a sex object. This subject is not only about Elijah Muhammad but about your philosophy in general when it comes to male entitlement". This was his response: "the only thing I said that came remotely close to this is when I said as long as the females are ABOVE puberty then.....(and it's still not necessarily OK if you're already married to someone)....I don't give a damn. Those affairs are between them and his wife, not us." What he calls "lies", i call "implications". Bottom line; he left himself open for my interpretations. When a person tells you his opinion - believe him! Pioneer's confusion about the duration of puberty also didn't help his case. So he and i remain at an impasse - as usual. (1) puberty: the period during which adolescents reach sexual maturity and become capable of reproduction: (2) puberty: In humans, puberty occurs at the onset of adolescence, between the ages of about 11 and 14 in girls and 13 and 16 in boys. Pioneer also accused Mel of lying about him.

Propriety is important and mutual respect comes with propriety. On an internet discussion board, ongoing feuds can precipitate an exchange of insults. Online forums invariably become outlets for the kind of behavior that would not occur in a face-to-face confrontation. Anonymity emboldens some people prompting them to push the buttons because they don't have to suffer the consequences of their aggressiveness. That's life. That's what the board is a reflection of. We have all kinds of personalities here. i am tired and old and impatient. In the future i will curb my true cynical self and not name-call. That's the best i can do.

@Troy what you “think” and the tacit support you seem to offer others who practice child rape and child-marriage sends a conflicting message. So let me be very clear. Both parties need to be of the age of consent to enter into marriage. In some states this is not the case which mean a guardian must sign for a minor. That is considered a FORCED marriage. Both parties must be able to consent to engage in sex. This applies to both singles and married couples . A husband can’t force a wife to have sex and vice-versa. If this occurs it’s rape. Anyone under the age of consent is considered an “infant” in legal terms or minor in lay terms. Infants cannot consent to anything. A guardian or a parent can’t consent to sex for a child in any state in the U.S.A further it is ILLEGAL to have sex with anyone 13 or younger. It’s not love to force their selves or commit an illegal act against a child. @Pioneer1 where’s the lie? ”Above puberty” was your cut off point. Most girls are “ABOVE” puberty by 12...in many cases 10-years-old. It is only force if an adult man is having sex with a girl who is “ABOVE” puberty. Maybe you might want to include an age to clarify what you consider above puberty. Children UNDER the Age of Consent, in most cases, are “ABOVE puberty”

I know too, that many Black women have been hurt and abandoned. And, I believe for this reason, many of them have turned to other ways to gain that acknowledgement that they so deserve. This government has done so much damage to us. They have encouraged our gender conflicts because it gives them power over us. @Pioneer1 Number one, it's driven by the anger and hatred many AfroAmerican women have towards AfroAmerican men AS WELL as the ignorance many AfroAmerican women have about their own sexuality and African sexuality in general. Further, they see aligning themselves with Caucasian feminists as an opportunity to gain economic and political influence and power without realizing the tremendous toll it will take not only on them but the lives of future generations who will end up psychologically damaged and morally confused from their unwise alliances. I agree.

Sure some Europeans have DNA from Neanderthals, but they (and we) share FAR more DNA with Gorillas. Does that make us Gorillas? Of course not. There are very small difference in the genomes of humans -- almost trivial, but those small difference are enough to make all of unique while still being amazing similar. We are family. Racism is thrust upon Black people by people with small minds, so we must deal with it. But if you ask me, all the focus on racial differences is a big waste of time and divisive. So you believe that white supremacists (the alt right, skinheads, etc) have created a global agenda to promulgate homosexuality across all races? How will this advance their cause? Chevdove I'll tell you the truth any sentence that include this is one which I will normally will not finish reading. the Bible has NOTHING to do with science. Chevdove at the end of the day I believe you to be a sincere and righteous person who is seeking to increase their understanding of the world, but if there is one takeaway here don't confuse the Bible with science.

The action or crime of making a false spoken statement damaging to a person's reputation. ‘he is suing the TV company for slander’ Compare with libel More example sentencesSynonyms 1.1count noun A false and malicious spoken statement. Intent is important in slander. My mistake i was refering to the post. So I'll split it with you.

Troy You know there are FAR more gay white men in the united states than there are gay Black men. If there is a conspiracy, then it appears to be backfiring, dont you think? Yes there are far more gay White men in the United States and I also believe that the PERCENTAGE of homosexuality among them is higher also. However, homosexuality among them has ALWAYS been higher and is fairly common. Going back centuries if not millenia if you look at how common homosexual relationships were in ancient Rome and Greece. Homosexuality is nothing new or "uncommon" in Caucasian society. It just alternates from persecution to acceptance at different moments in history. However what IS new and uncommon is the increasing amount of homosexuality as well as it's acceptance being seen in African societies not only in the United States but in various communities around the globe! Although homosexuality may have existed among some Africans in the past, it is miniscule compared to the amount that you see among Black people today and it DEFINATELY wasn't accepted as much as it is today which means some OUTSIDE FORCE must be influencing this.

What if the oppressive white supremacist system steals this grand idea, like it has been known to do, and the movers and shakers in this country, who are secretly conspiring against black people, also embrace metaphysical concepts and do a better job of making thoughts things, thus sustaining the status quo? Seems to me this plan calls for re-location, a black exodus to someplace where the diaspora could fall back and re-group. There's also the possibility that diversity within the ranks would replace racism as a problem. I am a amenable to metaphysical concepts, but i think that becoming all you can be is an individual undertaking.

I think that's all the proof I need.

Once again there are four types of sentences. You say it is not nuanced , even though it is simple it is multi layered. Both Cynique and Chevdover answered the question. Which means one of three things. One they are lacking in complexity for answering such a simple or meaningless question. Two it is multivalent question since Chendive and Cynique not only answered but gave different answers. Which actually proves the validity of my statement. Three I reserve this option for Troyineer. Sailor Is that an acute or obtuse statement. Or are you dropping science? I can see by your statements how you reckon the world. Geometry. Good call @Pioneer1, better luck next time T. Troy doesn't think ...

Congratulations! That kind of recognition is earned by hard work.

Whew you scared me for a second Chevdove. You have answered your own question; there are more white men in the US than there are Black men. Which implies that you understand that homosexuality is not a function of race (obviously, because there is only one race). If you understand this you can move on from this fictional conspiracy theory. I feel your anger for how Kevin was treated. But I say F*ck the Academy. We are WAY TOO dependent upon white institutions for validation and continue to reject our own. So I'm not angry with the Academy, what I find troubling is our dependence upon them. Look, I understand hosting the Oscars comes with a big fat paycheck and the potential for bigger paydays and this is really the bottom line. But to get their money you have to sell out. Kevin refusing to sell out is why my level of respect for him went up. Kevin is not the only own one to make gay jokes, fat jokes, ugly jokes. retard jokes, race jokes, gender jokes marriage jokes, dead baby jokes, etc, etc. This is what comedians do.

@Mel Hopkins LOL!!!!!!!!!!!! BRING IT!!!!! Now I can sleep..... If I can stop laughing... Really, this ain't funny ... but yeah, how bout it? "It doesn’t matter what these boys were doing as kids, because those same state’s age-of-consent laws for marriage now also applies to boys. So now we have boys setting up house with grown men - because it’s legal and shouldn’t have any bearing on the man’s position - if he’s doing great things." I'm just trying to imagine one these fellas or perhpas 'a brotha' from the NOI all dressed up in a tux and in attendance of a wedding of a 6th grade boy being married to a grown man.... FAIR GAME???? @Troy I googled. Funny you would mention this, but did you read the reaction when this secret was let out and how the crowd went crazy on him!? He was completely BLACKLISTED when he returned from London back to the States for years. And I can't figure out how he was not prosecuted? At any rate, the laws today set the age of consent and, he surely would have been in trouble today.