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@Delano you should know by now, other than trolls and spammers, i don't place any restrictions on what people say here. That would defeat the purpose. Obviously I dont agree with everthing people say here. When you deny climate change I don't delete your posts, i want to better understand your reasoning maybe hear something i dont know. Look if I or any of you want to read only things that fit your world view, go to Facebook. For example, @NubianFellow's reaction to the white guy's was quite harsh and a weak person might be put off to the point that wo n't reply. If you are too intimidated to reply then this forum is not for you...again there is always Facebook. @Cynique came through and explained why Nubian's reaction was misguided. That exchange between two smart and talented writers (Nubian and Cynique) was much better that me deleting a post and the exchange never taking place. The "tone" I set Del is free expression. The benefit is in the diversity of expression. Me "setting the tone" is the opposite if that.

These responses don't push me into the arms of white men, but they do crystallize the reason why certain black men make me roll my eyes upward. If i was a young woman on the market, looking for a boyfriend, I'd wouldn't set my sites on somebody who eats drinks and sleeps black fanaticism, constantly nagging and droning and pouting about how a black woman should represent what they have decided is acceptable. Guys who can only be described as envying white men who have out-foxed black ones and now run the world. You have completely overreacted to the post from the innocuous white man, and Mel's having been married to a white guy who she found attractive on many levels. Get over it. Stop wallowing in your insecurities. and whining about the irrepressible racism that is not cramping your style, just your flexibility. Not to mention that you are not altogether infallible in your views and solutions. You are not visionaries, you are maladjusted malcontents, victims of your own brainwashing. Petulant because you can't mold black women to fit your specifications, never considering that you yourselves might leave something to be desired as you walk around exemplifying your own brand of European mediocrity. Yes, racism is ubiquitous but you can't conceive of the idea that it will run its course because diversity is the wave of the future. No, you're stuck in the mire of a viscous tar pit that hampers your inability to cope with an indifferent world that ignores your grievances. Go out and find the type of women who meet your standards and spare the rest of black women your Afro-centric vigilance. Thank you Troy and Del for your posts representing broadminded guys. (BTW, i said before that i don't really think little black girls today would prefer a Lady Gaga doll over a Nikki Minaj one.) This is 2019.

@Pioneer1 get out more. Meet people outside your culture, age, geography. I actually know several male "Lorens." There is even one on the site Dr. Loren Due. I approved an account for @Loren Carle so if he comes back he'll see that tag hopefully react to your replies; take what is meaningful and throw away the rest (side eyeing you know who ).

Guest Loren Carle Guests Report post (IP: 204.113.88.245) This guest post was buried in the "Black Women are Beautiful' thread, invisible because it had not been approved by a monitor. I rarely exercise my monitor privilege on this site but this was an interesting commentary so i took the liberty of approving it and hope Troy doesn't have a problem with my doing so. Cynique. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted 1 hour ago This topic hurts my heart. I am a white man, and so feel that very little I have to say in the matter will be helpful. However, here goes. My personal response over the few decades of my adult life has been a decision to have my natural facial hair, and a relaxed attitude to my head hair. I don't spend any money on shaving stuff, and ask my wife to cut my beard the way she likes best once in a while. I keep my head hair in some kind of reasonable state of tidiness, without thinking too much about it. I used to have it long and in a braid, hoping for solidarity with Native American men. I'm not sure anymore that the effect of a long, thin blonde braid on a white man with a red beard was the desired one. I recognise that I probably experience a lot of privilege in making these decisions, but I hope it's one way that I can reject the privilege afforded to shaven, short-haired white men. The difficulty seems to lie in black women being forced to choose their battles. Do their employers or co-workers comment on their self-presentation in ways that give them fear for their income that supports their children? This is what should not be! I would like to hear from black women about this topic. If we men, of any origin, presume to tell any women how they should appear, it's just the same old sad story of men presuming to dictate how women should present themselves, expressing the same old sick power dynamic. We gotta just stop, guys, and love the women and men we love by honouring their dignity with acceptance, support, and appreciation of their own personal aesthetic—wait for it—choices. What we can do is examine work on our own attitudes honestly and privately, without looking for kudos (or to get laid) for being woke: nobody owes us anything. We need then to notice how those attitudes are reflected in whom we find attractive, and whether and how we express that attraction. peace

Join the club Nubian you are attacking a man that suggested you listen to the choices Black Women make. Okay. Thanks Cynique your post encapsulated everything I felt.

The house nigga lives in the massa's house and enjoys all the privileges which come with this, but this doesn't mean he likes being a slave. The field nigga is breakin his back pickin cotton or tobacco or cane, which today would be equivalete to being a street person living in the inner city/ghetto hustling. i didn't get the idea that this is your lifestyle. You sound very middleclass but discontented. I described you as ambiguous because after you vent, you retreat and come very close to apologizing.

@NubianFellow I don't think this guy has seen these posts. What i liked about him was that he was secure enough to not take himself too seriously. He poked fun at himself, and seemed mostly to be motivated by the "me too" movement, wanting to give women their due; black ones in particular. You and Pioneer were immediately on the defensive, with Pioneer right off the bat, insinuating about his gender, and you drilling and criticizing him, insecure reactions because you both regarded him as threat in spite of the fact that his approach was not aggressive.

It's like you are passive aggressive when it comes to white people, and it's clear that your resentment toward them is simmering just beneath the surface. But you actually don't owe anybody an explanation or justification for this. This is your right. The person being most harmed by your ambivalence is you because your vacillating emotions frustrate you. Whether you realize it or not you are a house nigga who has a love-hate relationship with your status. LOL But i adore you. Why? Because your intelligence empowers you and i can sense that you are kind, and of course have a great affection for black woman. Some woman will be lucky to win your devotion. And you are a welcome addition to this board. I am from another generation, and my attitude toward whites came out my experience of growing up in a small northern interracial town and attending integrated schools. My resentment toward white folks was tempered by how me and my small group of peers never sought white approval or acceptance. We were comfortable in our own skins and liked the lives we created for ourselves. In high school i was engulfed in a white sea of classmates, casually acquainted with typical blonde, blue-eyed or swarthy white guys, all-american honor students and sports jocks, the last astronaut to walk on the moon being one of them. They were never mean or disrespectful to me. Black guys, were were not as kind. Because they had their own issues. And during both my high school and college days, white people would often seek us blacks out, wanting to be our friends and wanting to be taught how to dance and play bid whist and be cool. This was during the 1950s. Once the Civil Rights movement got underway, we were surrounded by do-gooder bleeding heart white Liberals, eager to show how unprejudiced they were, unaware of being benign racists steeped in white privilege. They were almost amusing. We were actually the type who would blow off black face, attributing it to white stupidity, not black shame. That's where i come from. No denying it is not the typical black experience nor one to be celebrated, but it is mine. (One that, nonetheless, didn't not my dull capacity for hating Donald Trump and all he represents. ) I married a black man whose background was similar to mine, and later worked around white men who would laugh and joke and flirt with me. And were kind. What can i say? As Mel has astutely noted, "we are not a single story people."

@Pioneer1 In Texas, or in that part of Texas, he was definitely White--Lily White. The high school was predominantly White and Mexican, almost 50% for both, with only a very small minority of Black students. However, the Black community was very strong. A lot of the Black students were well rounded students, and a significant aspect of the school programs, such as the sports programs, and the marching band and etc. The Black community did not rely only on the school programs for their children, but had a strong community base. The different Church communities would come together and have social functions for the Black kids. They would pass out invitations for social functions like 'dances', 'recitals', beauty competitions, and etc. and there was always a big attendance. They would send buses, vans, and cars, around the community to pick up students for these functions and different churches would host certain affairs. It was one of the best experiences of my life. There was a lot of confidence amongst the Black kids in this community.

False - Women give birth to men. - men come from women. The first rhythm a man hears is his mother’s heart beat. Therefore, if anything. a man sees his reflection in woman. How a man treats a woman is how he feels about himself. But that is just as ridiculous as what you’ve written. Every animal including humans imitate their immediate environment. If I see my reflection in anyone, it’s my parents. It’s those two who taught me how to carry myself and relate to the world. Further, it’s not only black women and men who come from the same place, EVERY human on the planet comes from the same place; Africa. Now, if we’re speaking about which area of the huge continent we migrated/or kidnapped from and when; then matrilineally/genetically speaking My ancestors ascended from Ethiopia - allegedly 85,000 + years ago. There are no enslaved Africans in America on my maternal side. I doubt I even share a genetic code with anyone here. Let alone a “reflection”. Besides Troy, I’ve yet to meet a black man on here or on my journey who has shared or had the same experiences as I. Delano and I share a similar metaphysical consciousness. So generally speaking it would be impossible to see my reflection in any black man. I rarely have anything in common with black men specifically, men generally. I think the challenge here as Delano mentioned is speaking in generalities to individuals. We are not a single story people. But if you chose to make us ONE then it must include all modern humans who ascended out of Africa. All shades and colors.

@Pioneer1 The Caucasus mountains are NOT in Mt Ararat! That is crazy! I suppose you think all of the colleges all over the world are wrong!? There is no dispute. They are both completely separate mountain chains. The Caucasus mountain chains are in another country. Mt. Ararat mountain chains begins in East Turkey. There is no historical document that will place the Caucasians in East Turkey as an origin. But, if you have a reference, I would like to see this. This is historical and has not changed since ancient civilizations have scripted these locations. You don't have go in circles with me, LOL. Please quote a reference for this. I know you won't be able to do that, but again, I am asking. LOL. Thank you!!! I tell you that the Colchians and the Caucasians are one and the same!!! The Colchians are also scripted at the time of the 12th Dynasty pharaoh and these people are well documented to be Black [ie Egyptians].

@Troy Bravo for this response! And I know from speaking with one of your daughters you and your former wife were successful! Your daughter is lovely. And absolutely, it is more complex than that video. But why are we seeing a video of a baby girl in her private moments? Why is there someone making fun of her while the world watches? Why is there a man - who sounds decidely like a black man chastising a baby girl? We don’t know if this will leave psychological scars on a child who is experiencing life in her environment. And how is this supposed to build up the black community, again? Smh

In a word, "yes." Slavery imposed strict rules, incarceration imposes strict rules, living in your momma's house imposes strict rules. Free adults abhor strict rules -- it is the opposite of freedom. I've often said I understand where @Pioneer1 is coming from, because some of what he says are postions I once held but the we disagree on so much now because my positions have changed. Similarly with @NubianFellow he is so striden, forcefull, and skilled in expressing his opinions he is hard to ignore. But he too, on this issue, is painting with too broad a brush. I'd seen the video before and depending upon your world view it might seem like compeling proof of a little Black girl who wants deperately to be white and have long flowing hair. The reality is shit is often more complex. I've raised to girls and if you take a toy from them yhat they were playing, for no apparent reason, they might get upset and if could be a stick they just found on the ground. Maybe the kid was minimiking a older person whose hair was blown dry (a natural hair style that would presumably pass muster with pioneer and nubian). Maybe her parents have her in front of the TV all day and she watched one too many Pantene commercials. This video proves nothing. What Black women do what they with their is far more complex than being brainwashed to be like white people. The Maasai women shave their hair and the warriors (men) run around braiding there hair. How do you think American Brothers would react if Black women adopted the hair styles of our African sisters in present day Kenya/Tanzania?

Can’t forget! I -got tired of dealing with them—So, -I wrote the book then I conjured up THE BEST MAN!

You’re wrong for assuming the best man is a white man for everyone. A white man wasn’t the best man for my mom. But since you believe the white man is the best man - I’m going to step out of the argument you seem to be having with yourself. Well, since 2/3 of my daughters are biologically his daughters... Believing their dad is supreme is awesome. I know I think my dad is/was the greatest. Don’t you think your dad is supreme too? Wow- just wow.

Pioneer there's a difference between specifity and generalities. I'll make this very understandable. Mel said man, you say men. Are white people better than black people not in my personal experience. You clearly have a different experience. You are conflating colour, wealth and Class. In the day time I worked in financial services met and saw the heavy weights in the field. Saw Michael Milken on the elevator at Drexel Burnham, said hi to Reggie Lewis who was on his way to meet Michael Milken, was at a meet and greet with Max Chapman, and spoke with Ken Chenault, meet presidential candidate Michael Dukakis. Had a personal chat with Peter Lord about astrology. He is in the Family Stand and he wrote Touch for Paula Abdul. I hung with artists musicians and night people. I have experienced different circles. And like i said earlier it doesn't make me more evolved. It just means my perspective is broader. You clearly have a different temperament, experience and perspective. Its pointless for me to argue with Anyone who takes their world to be the entire world.

"Other words", being your words which automatically voids their substance. Not all white men are powerful or intelligent or kind, obviously. (That's your subconscious concession to white supremacy) If I find those 3 traits in a kind, secure white man who treats me with consideration and respect, then he's easy to find appealing. And i certainly don't have to justify what would attract me to a white man. It's my prerogative to prefer one over a black man like you. Fortunately, there are other black men around who are not like you who, themselves, are secure, powerful, intelligent, and kind.

Mel CONTEXT is your friend, Black man! When I was creating my "THE BEST MAN"- he ain’t had no color!!! Just good character! I'm not illiterate, I can read and comprehend as well. You asked for the BEST MAN and you were sent a WHITE MAN. Therefore to you: best man = a White man. What did I get wrong? And Religion - I refused to allow my daughters to go black baptist or evangelical churches.  As long as you praised a White man as being the BEST man and the KINDEST man and held him high above all other men infront of your children....you already exposed them to religion. The religion of White Supremacy. .....one of the most powerful religions on the planet. I wonder how many black women, have denied themselves wonderful experiences and a life partner because they are waiting for these traits to appear in a black man. I'm sure during slavery very few of them did; because they didn't have much of a choice and these "wonderful experiences" were FORCED upon them. 　 　 Chev No, let's not look at the wording. It's like, you are attacking! IMO, you are missing the point here, @Mel Hopkins was married. This man married her and acknowledge her life, and this means that not only did she choose him, but he chose her! How beautiful. About as beautiful as Sally Hemmings being taken advantage of by Jefferson. I'm not attacking Mel...but I AM finger pointing. I'm pointing out the fact that her criticizms of Black men can't be trusted because of her previous relationship as well as the very words she's spoken in this thread. She sees Black men as "less than" the ideal man...which is a White man, by her own admission. 　 　 That was her husband!!! The two of them deserve an opportunity to work this out without being attacked for issues that ALL OF US--THE WHOLE WORLD HAS TO DEAL WITH.  Work "what" out? She's not confused, and neither am I. She knows exactly how she feels and why she feels this way and she's articulated it clearly. First you defend Black men who are gay, then you defend Black women who call White men better than Black men. Do you not see how both of these groups are counter-productive to the progress of Black society because their positions mean the destruction of the Black family? But you think that we, Black women should receive scrutiny from Black men who feel they have the 'masculinity' and right to 'check' Black women for wearing spandex, and blonde hiar and such. Spandex is not a problem....blonde hair is. @Pioneer1 Isn't that what you are doing? It is as if you are trying to make Mel's statement the blueprint for what you believe others have done. To answer your first question..NO. I'm actually taking Mel at her word and judging her by her own statements. She SAID a White man is the best man, why are you ignoring this or defending it? To answer your second question...YES. I've heard some of her statements echoed by other Black women who have attempted to justify their love for White men and hatred for Black men which is why I said those who make statements like this can't be trusted. I'm not saying this about Mel, but many of these women actually DO hate Black men so much they would join the KKK and help White men harm Black men if given the opportunity. They just make up excuses to justify it. They'll complain about how Black men treated them but ignore how a White men treated them 10 times worse. 　 Del I believe Mel said that both implicitly and explicitly. That he was the best Man for her Lol..... Man, you have a hard time articulating and expressing YOUR OWN thoughts, now how in the world are you going to speak for Mel and what she meant? Cynique When it comes to the appeal of white men, "power is a great aphrodisiac". Intelligence is sexy. What's even more appealing is a powerful white man who is secure enough to be a kind person. if this type is appreciative of a black woman, this erases a multitude of sins In other words, in your opinon White men are powerful and that makes them sexy. You're not denying the love and attraction toward White men....you're just attempting to JUSTIFY it. So as far as you're concerned all a Black woman needs to do is find one "kind enough" and "appreciative enough" for her to give herself to.....lol. Troy However, i dont think most people need the NOI and their restrictions. I'm not sure if some or most need the NOI's restrictiveness but judging by the way so many of our people are homeless, hooked on drugs and alcohol, in prison, and living a life of crime and begging....many of them could use the strict rules of the Nation of Islam to help them improve their lives. Others don't need them. It's about what works for the individual. You act as if strict rules are the worse thing a person can go through. Little children HATE the rules their parents place on them because they aren't wise enough to know how important they are. Sometimes our people act like little children who don't want to be told what to do....but then can't figure out why they run into so much trouble when they do what they " feels like doin' ". In that regard, @Mel Hopkins and @Delanomore evolved that we are. They're not "evolved", because that means transitioning to a higher state of being. They are just unabashed about their love for Caucasians.....which makes them no worse and certainly no better. I don't have a problem with people finding Caucasians attractive or even having sex with them, it's FALLING IN LOVE with them and calling them THE BEST and KINDEST that I take issue with because it makes them vulnerable to being used against our people. There have been many White people who've helped me out in many things...but I'm not going to call them or even one of them "the best" simply because I liked them or they helped me. Look at Kanye West's behavior as a great example of what happens when a Black person allows themselves to "fall inlove" or be so emotionally taken by a White person that they lose control of themselves.

　 Nubian Wow. I didn't expect to read this. I did..... I KNEW how they felt and I TOLD YOU that they are inlove with White men and to notice how as much as you call them "sister" they never called you "brother"....until I pointed it out. They see THEM as their savior and see YOU (not you personally but intelligent masculine Black men collectively) as the problem and in many cases their adversary and enemy. But it's not malicous bro, their minds are just poisoned from growing up in a poisonous system that tries to teach them to hate themselves and hate their men and even hate their children. Even they don't know where it comes from. Miracles can happen and they CAN possibly be changed, but one of the best things to do is for strong intelligent Black men to RAISE A NEW GENERATION of Black boys and girls with the correct frame of mind to break this generational.....uhh.....dilema (I won't use that other word). Mel 　 I conjured up "Conjured up"...... Interesting choice of words. When you first described the being you "conjured up" you said: Now you say: Seems to me you sound GRATEFUL that a "handsome" and "powerful" White man with blonde hair and blue eyes CAME DOWN (from being conjured up) and found a Black woman even worthy of consideration. But just remember.....demons and devils are also conjured up.