Religion versus Spirituality

[Troy]

This video describes Dogon religious beliefs, astrological knowledge, understanding of matter, and the beginning of the universe.

 

How can this knowledge square with Western religion?  

 

 

This brother makes interesting videos.

[Pioneer1]

 

Troy, you should have put this in the Race, Culture....thread, lol.


If we research deep enough, we'll find that the Dogon and nearly all Black African so-called "tribes" or ethnic groups are mere FRAGEMENTS of the ancient Kemetic Civilization that fell thousands of years ago. 
The various families and clans of ancient Kemet broke up and moved in different directions carrying fragments (often corrupted) of the original high culture and high science with them.

This is symbolized in the Kemetic story of Auset and Ausar.
Ausar was murdered and chopped up into little pieces and his wife Auset had to find those pieces and put them back together again.

Kemet was collapsed and fell into many tribes....known as Black Africa today.....but will eventually one day be brought back together.
 

[Chevdove]

9 hours ago, Troy said:

This video describes Dogon religious beliefs, astrological knowledge, understanding of matter, and the beginning of the universe.

 

WOW! That was insane! I've always been fascinated by the Dogon!

 

I did not realize that they were connected to the Mali.

I heard the commentator mention the Egyptologist Nicholas Grimal's research on them. I do believe too that they stem from the earliest Egyptian civilization. But I also think that the Dogon have a rich connection to the Cush Babylonians and the Philistines too because of their deep understanding of the constellations and outer space. Some modern scholars don't want to believe that the Dogon knew about the double star, Sirius, and that they knew about the rings around the planet saturn over a thousand years before they did. What an insult! The ancient Cush Hamites of the Babylonian empire were the ones noted for their genious in this field of science. They were the ones to develop the cirle and 60 degree concept! Like the Egyptians, they developed calendars and mapped constellations. They aligned certain stars with the earth and made constructions in this regards. 

 

This video mentioned their understanding of the electrons that are around the nucleus! Wow! That does correlate to the solar system as well, and in how certain stars and double stars revolve around each other. They mention the spindle and how the fertilized egg's membrane becomes hardened with it is fertilized, and that is my territory as I have a degree in Biology, so this is so fascinating to hear! They correlate biology to outer space, and I have been studying this concept for some years now. Love this! 

 

 

[Delano]

I'll check out the video later. They also arrange their huts in a fractal pattern before the west discovered fractals.

[Delano]

The Dogon cosmology has a name for Sirius that means heavy, it is a neutron star that is heavier than othe planets. However the star can not be seen by the naked eye.

[frankster]

Religion is Socio - Cultural institution with rules regulations practices and ritual on how to  worship the Divine, in that sense it is our first true science.  Where we record the past deeds admonitions and practice  of men and women we consider worthy of Imitation.  Thru the  codification of these  procedure it is believe that others who apply them will have accomplish proper worship of the Divine and achieve Favor and  Everlasting Bliss. The institutionalization of Religion has made it corrupt  because of Man's imperfection greed and ambition.

Spirituality is about find the links that binds you to All That I s.....You are another me - Man know thyself

[Chevdove]

On 5/1/2023 at 12:19 AM, Delano said:

They also arrange their huts in a fractal pattern before the west discovered fractals.

 

Interesting!

Yes, the video did mention something about how they constructed their dwellings.

I have to go back and listen again as it was the first time I heard it and am not sure of all that was said. 

But I remember that some dwellings are designed at the top in a feminine form. This is fascinating to me because, it does make me think about

ancient Egypt too and the French language in how some articles are feminine and some are masculine. 

So in terms of a feminine dwelling, it makes me also think about the letter 'M' in association to ancient Egypt letter that correlates to the human 'race' coming from 

THE WOMB!

In French, the word HOUSE is feminine; MA MAISON and this IMO connects to the idea of THE WOMB. 

 

Also, years ago when I was researching, I came to believe that some fo the Dogon structures looks astonishingly similar to ancient American structures in the Southwest and also correlate to ancient Babylon. 

[Delano]

Their dwellings weren't mentioned in this video 

[ProfD]

10 hours ago, frankster said:

Religion is Socio - Cultural institution with rules regulations practices and ritual on how to  worship the Divine, in that sense it is our first true science.  Where we record the past deeds admonitions and practice  of men and women we consider worthy of Imitation.  Thru the  codification of these  procedure it is believe that others who apply them will have accomplish proper worship of the Divine and achieve Favor and  Everlasting Bliss. The institutionalization of Religion has made it corrupt  because of Man's imperfection greed and ambition.

Spirituality is about find the links that binds you to All That I s.....You are another me - Man know thyself

Constantly on point bro.

 

As the resident agnostic around here, I approve of this message. 

[Pioneer1]

Chev

 

But I also think that the Dogon have a rich connection to the Cush Babylonians and the Philistines too because of their deep understanding of the constellations and outer space.

 

There is definitely a connection between the Dogon and the Philistines!

As I mentioned before, the Dogon are just a FRAGMENT of the larger ancient Kemetic Empire.
Those known as "philistines" in the Bible are actually the descendants of the "sea people" who tried to attack ancient Kemet and were subdued and subjugated by them.

They are said to come from an island in the Aegean Sea known as "Captor" but in reality they were among the first Caucasians produced during the grafting process on the island of Patmos.
As soon as they were produced, they organized themselves and set sail to head back to Africa/Kemet and try to dominate and conquer the original people.....and got whooped..lol
 

Anyway....

 

No doubt there was contact between the Kemetic ancestors of the Dogon and the ancestors of these "philistines" while they were being subjugated in Kemet.

 

BTW....
We can't confuse the Philistine with the Canaanites who....although dwelt in the same lands for a time....were much older and of an entirely different race.
 

[Pioneer1]

In keeping with the theme of this thread.......

The difference between religion and spirituality tends to be from the S/sources.

Religion tends to be MAN MADE while Spirituality (more properly called "Mysticism") is of a DIVINE origin.

Religion is STUDIED while Spirituality/Mysticism is EXPERIENCED.



 

[Troy]

I phrased my post’s subject as if the two were in conflict. I did not intend to do that. It probably comes from my personal bias though. I think however religion can be spiritual, indeed it should be. 
 

My religious upbringing did not leave me with a sense of spirituality. For me that came later and was distinct from my religion, which was based on a vengeful God that would damn you to an eternity of hell if you did not comply. 
 

@Pioneer1 i think many religious people do “experience” their religion and spirituality can be studied.

 

@ProfD as an agnostic do you believe this existence is so there is? Are you satisfied with that? Fits anything inside you suggest there is more?

 

 @Delano you’ve previously mentioned the Dogon on this site. I think the people we see today are not the same ones that knew about the star. I did not learn about the dogging until i started this site and heard Saul Williams mention them in  a poem and i looked them up. You kinda remind me of ole Saul. 

[ProfD]

 

 

49 minutes ago, Troy said:

@ProfD as an agnostic do you believe this existence is so there is? Are you satisfied with that? Fits anything inside you suggest there is more?

I believe this existence is it.  I'm satisfied because it's all *I* know. Nothing suggests to me there is more.

 

However, I do believe this existence could be better. Of course, it requires that human beings do a better job of taking care of each other.

[Mel Hopkins]

14 hours ago, Troy said:

. I think however religion can be spiritual, indeed it should be. 

It can be, but religion is externally based and has tenets that dictate your path.  Spiritually is internally based, and DIVINITY reveals ITSELF as you journey.

[Troy]

33 minutes ago, Mel Hopkins said:

Spiritually is internally based...

 

That resonates.  Spirituality, also, as Frankster stated...

 

On 5/2/2023 at 8:55 PM, frankster said:

Spirituality is about find the links that binds you to All...

 

This in my mind includes not just all other people, but the rest of the universe.

 

14 hours ago, ProfD said:

I believe this existence is it.  I'm satisfied because it's all *I* know. Nothing suggests to me there is more.

 

I hear you.  I used to feel that way to until I learned more.  I used to believe anything of value came from Western civilization from the Greek.  That is what I was taught, but as I got older and learned more I realized this was simply factually in accurate and that he true has been deliberately hidden, obfuscated, and distorted. 

 

I recently shared information about Ancient African Writing Systems.  European historians know that the Greeks learned from Africa.  But our public schools teach us nothing about the African origins of Western knowledge including religion.  Everything we've learned from the West has been perverted primarily for the financial benefit of a few.

 

Pioneer wrote.

 

17 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Religion tends to be MAN MADE while Spirituality (more properly called "Mysticism") is of a DIVINE origin.

 

Some religions teach you that you must go through a man (always a man) to get to God, to experience the Divine.  Again, the West has stripped out the most important aspects of religion.  As a result, you have a culture of people who are spiritually vacuous.  The Western world is increasingly nonreligious for this reason.  We will never address any of the worlds most serious problems wars, climate change, poverty from this position.

 

Interestingly, Octavia Butlers Parable series examines, thought fiction, the potential consequence of a lack of spirituality and religious based fascism to grow unfettered.  In the second book in her series, Parable of the Talents, the presidential candidate, a Christian, issues a call to "Make American Great Again!"  Parable of the Talents was published in the 1998, long before Trumpism.

 

The spiritual emptiness of the world's most powerful nations is, in my opinion, the planet's most serious problem.

[Pioneer1]

Troy

 

 

 i think many religious people do “experience” their religion and spirituality can be studied.

 

They experience the DOGMATIC part of their religions, like:
-reading scriptures
-fellowship with other believers
-attending structured religious services inside buildings of worship

 

These are often pleasant activities, but they usually don't cause a "spiritual/mystical" experience.

They are man-made and man controlled.

 

Meditation and certain drug use often cause an actual MYSTICAL experience where you go beyond anything a human being can construct.  
You get into contact with the Realities and Beings outside of this one.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Some religions teach you that you must go through a man (always a man) to get to God, to experience the Divine. 

 

And even if they don't teach it outright...their very doctrines leave you no choice BUT to ask questions and seek advice through a man.

 

 

 

 

 

 Again, the West has stripped out the most important aspects of religion.  As a result, you have a culture of people who are spiritually vacuous.  The Western world is increasingly nonreligious for this reason.  We will never address any of the worlds most serious problems wars, climate change, poverty from this position.

 

Yes, but this isn't by accident....it's by DESIGN.
We must keep in mind that the LEADERS of Western civilization usually don't practice the same religion and spiritual beliefs that they encourage the common people to practice and believe in.

Most of them are Masons, Shriners, and belong to other secret societies where some SPIRITUAL TRUTHS are shared among them in their circles but kept away from the common general public.

 

Many of the same leaders of Western medicine and academics and other intellectuals will get on stage and claim to be atheist and declare that this reality is all that there is...while at the same time practice meditation and use certain drugs to leave their bodies and journey to other worlds to meet Superior Beings.

 

They KNOW the truth....but give the people lies in order to confuse them.

If you don't believe me, as the average White atheist why he decided to get MARRIED...lol.

 

 

 

 

The spiritual emptiness of the world's most powerful nations is, in my opinion, the planet's most serious problem.

In my opinion, they aren't suffering from spiritual "emptiness".
There is no such thing, because spirit and spirituality will ALWAYS be with us.  We are spiritual beings, so there is no way we can NOT be spiritual.

It's spiritual CONFUSION that they are suffering from.

In other words....
They are having spiritual experiences but being told it's OTHER THAN what it really is.  This causes a lot of confusion and frustration among the people.  
 

[Troy]

4 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

We are spiritual beings, so there is no way we can NOT be spiritual.

It's spiritual CONFUSION that they are suffering from

yes that is more accurate, but rather that confusion perhaps it is ignorance or being out of touch with your spiritual nature. 
 

 

[Delano]

On 5/4/2023 at 12:57 PM, Troy said:

you’ve previously mentioned the Dogon on this site. I think the people we see today are not the same ones that knew about the star. I did not learn about the dogging until i started this site and heard Saul Williams mention them in  a poem and i looked them up. You kinda remind me of ole Saul. 

It is the same people and the same story.

 

How do I remind you of Saul Williams?

[frankster]

On 5/3/2023 at 9:16 PM, Pioneer1 said:

In keeping with the theme of this thread.......

The difference between religion and spirituality tends to be from the S/sources.

Religion tends to be MAN MADE while Spirituality (more properly called "Mysticism") is of a DIVINE origin.

Religion is STUDIED while Spirituality/Mysticism is EXPERIENCED.



 

We are are Spiritual Beings Have a Physical Experience....For many of Us their is a veil of Forgetfulness/Separation from our Spiritual Self done so in order for us to fully experience physicality.

There are as many ways/paths to reach/remember Spirit as their are human beings 

The Mystic is the Man who has Studied the Esoteric (hidden in libraries) Writings of Various Religious orders and have Practice and Mastered (experienced) them in order to Contact or Remember Their true Spirit.

The Shaman use Various traditional Herbs and Techniques  to achieve the same end....Pass on from mentor to mentee.

The Guru is one who teaches purely physical and mental techniques to achieve Spiritual Awakening

There is also direct Awakening by another - Shaktipa

There are many ways to Spirit each with its particular strengths and weaknesses.

Physicality and Spirituality are two ends of One Continuum....the difference is in Perspective and Perception not  in Actuality.

 

[Troy]

On 5/5/2023 at 6:03 AM, Delano said:

How do I remind you of Saul Williams?

 

I shared an evaluator ride with him once and he reminded me of you in terms of how he looked.  Plus you two are artists.  Not really too concerned with what other people think when it comes to how you live -- you do you.

 

2 hours ago, frankster said:

Physicality and Spirituality are two ends of One Continuum....the difference is in Perspective and Perception not  in Actuality.

Would you elaborate on this, because the analogy is lost on me. Physicality and Spirituality are indeed different, otherwise they would not be on different ends of a continuum. Darkness and light are on opposite ends of a continuum and are different.  The difference is not just perception, but reality.

 

Unless you are saying our perception of reality is artificial and that the differences we perceive are not really there at all...

 

[Delano]

We are on a creative planet and we learn spiritual lessons through mundane happenings

 

That's my take on it.

[frankster]

19 hours ago, Troy said:

Would you elaborate on this, because the analogy is lost on me. Physicality and Spirituality are indeed different, otherwise they would not be on different ends of a continuum. Darkness and light are on opposite ends of a continuum and are different.  The difference is not just perception, but reality.

The Continuum is One....Agreed.

So already you see you are not dealing with Two separate phenomenon.

Now instead of seeing the Continuum as a Flat Line ....Imagine it is a Circle - where then is the Ends??

To Truly appreciate Physicality it is necessary for your mind to censor out information That lets you know that all is truly one thereby creating Duality

 

 

The difference you see between darkness and light is limited to the ability of your eyes to perceive.....Should your eyes be capable of seeing in infrared then we would be talking about detecting (Energy)heat or cold juxtaposed one against the other..

 

All is Mental.... it is the organ of reception that dictates whether it be taste sound or color sometimes when the lines between censorship and organs of perception are crossed we taste shapes and see voices.....Synesthesia

 

19 hours ago, Troy said:

 

Unless you are saying our perception of reality is artificial and that the differences we perceive are not really there at all...

 

 

Reality is a product of your mind and its ability to censor how energy impacts on you

 

To see a World in a Grain of Sand

And a Heaven in a Wild Flower 

Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand 

And Eternity in an hour

William Blake.

[Pioneer1]

frankster

 

 

We are are Spiritual Beings Have a Physical Experience....For many of Us their is a veil of Forgetfulness/Separation from our Spiritual Self done so in order for us to fully experience physicality.

 

That's EXACTLY why humans usually are made to forget.
It makes the experience more "real" and more of a challenge.

We are put here on this plane not just to gain knowledge but experience to go WITH that knowledge = wisdom.

 

 

 

There are as many ways/paths to reach/remember Spirit as their are human beings 

 

Hence my divestment from organized religion.

 

 

 

 

 

Physicality and Spirituality are two ends of One Continuum....the difference is in Perspective and Perception not  in Actuality

 

I would agree with only one exception and I think we mentioned this before in our extended discourse in the other thread.

In my opinion....in most cases, perception IS actuality/reality.

 

As a straight man I find Denzel Washington UN-attractive, but most women find him attractive.
So he IS attractive in the reality of most women even if he's unattractive in mine.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Troy

 

Physicality and Spirituality are indeed different, otherwise they would not be on different ends of a continuum. 

 

I agree with him so I can chime in on the answer as well....

Yes they are different....as in not the same.
But not necessarily OPPOSITE of eachother.

In truth....and I'm sure Delano would agree....much of the Spirit world is simple a different VIBRATION than this world we live in which we call physicality.
But if you were vibing at the same level...IT would seem must as physical to you as this one.

 

Most people who have had deep spiritual experiences like Near Death Experiences will tell you that the Reality and Physicality of the Spiritual world is FAR more solid and intense than this one.

 

They often feel that the SPIRITUAL WORLD is the "real" world while this world is the fake or non-physical one.

[Troy]

I watched a portion of the video @Pioneer1 posted.  How come people like this, who  can invoke a near death experience at will are not on Oprah and more widely known? seems like her ability could be easily proven. Since neither of these things have happened i find it hard to believe.

 

 Is it just me?

 

Now i would really would like to believe what he is saying is true, but i remain very skeptical.

[Pioneer1]

Troy

 

I don't believe the young man is claiming to have NEAR DEATH experiences at will, but he can often involve MYSTIC experiences without the traumatic prerequisites so many often have prior to theirs.

As far as him "proving" what he experienced.
Not sure how he can prove what he was and did in an entirely different realm UNLESS he had a way of taking the person who demands the proof into that other realm with him.



But indeed, Oprah HAS had many guests on discussing their NDE's, some of them famous:

 

 

Mystic spiritual experiences happen to all people in all walks of life.

 

[Addie98Stewart]

Hey! It's fascinating to explore different belief systems and how they intersect. While Dogon religious beliefs and astrological knowledge may differ from Western religions, it doesn't necessarily mean they can't coexist. Diversity in perspectives enriches our understanding of the world. If you're interested in exploring more about how different faiths can intersect and coexist, check out https://firstchurchlove.com. It's a great resource to foster dialogue and understanding.

[Troy]

On 5/13/2023 at 12:06 PM, Pioneer1 said:

But indeed, Oprah HAS had many guests on discussing their NDE's, some of them famous:

 

My bad, like I would know what is on the Orpah show -- I should have known better LOL!

 

>

.

 

 

 

[ProfD]

Of all the people who have died and/or NDEs (near death experiences), I never hear about them enjoying it so much that they expedite their exit from this existence. 

 

In other words, they aren't in a hurry to do anything to get back to that peaceful, beautiful place and make death permanent.  There must be some good in being alive.

[Pioneer1]

Troy

 

My bad, like I would know what is on the Orpah show -- I should have known better LOL!

 

You mean you never watched the Oprah Winfrey Show even when it was on regular television????

I wasn't the biggest fan of it, but I did watch my sista from time to time.

 

Now SHE should be the one running for President.
And I believe if she ran she'd actually GET IT....lol.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

ProfD

 

Of all the people who have died and/or NDEs (near death experiences), I never hear about them enjoying it so much that they expedite their exit from this existence.

 

Plenty of them have!

 

Two things you should keep in mind:

 

1. Most people who have a so-called NDE (and I call it "so-called" because it wasn't NEAR death but ACTUAL death....they just came back) will tell you clearly that they wanted to stay but either a Deity or an Ancestor told them it wasn't their "time" to stay yet and FORCED them to go back to this life.

The tiny few who actually wanted to come back said the ONLY reason they wanted to come back was to raise and protect their small children, but as soon as that was finished they wanted to immediately stay on the other side.

2. Many people who have had these so-called NDEs have attempted SUICIDE!
There are stories after stories about people who come back to this Reality and realize how dull and lifeless it is comparied to other Realities or Planes of existence.
I guess this is one of the reasons so many people like to get high.

The information/data is out there both scientifically and anecdotally.
Infact, any family member who has been close to death or has been around dying loved ones can confirm that your deceased family members are VERY MUCH alive on the other side and actually come back to comfort them and escort them through their death TO the other side.
It happens over and over and over and over again....undeniably.