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has the nonviolent integrated path the Black DOS Community in the USA chose, been worth it ?


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The black people of  Lowndes county not Black Alabamians. The USA's media, white or black or other , love's grandiosing every single positive thing don't they. One county in Alabama is getting a little help from the Biden Administration for environmental needs and that is deemed justice. I love how in the usa, dead people can gain justice for the crimes applied to them by whites. A truly historic day will be when most Black people in the USA or one of its states actually gain something positive. From MArijuana in NYC to Alabama Septic systems, a few Black people are getting and these things are being touted by whites or blacks like the gateway t the spiritworld is opening up, and we can see  the ancestors dancing... I am happy for the Black people of Lowndes county. but I continue to ponder a simple question. Has the choice by Black people to be nonviolent or integrated to whites in the usa been worth it for the Black DOS populace? I know it has been worth it for a Black 10% but for the majority of the village, has it been worth it? 

 

ARTICLE CONTENT

 

Black Alabamians endured poor sewage for decades. Now they may see justice.
Story by Brady Dennis • Yesterday 1:14 PM

Officials in Alabama discriminated against Black residents in a rural county by denying them access to adequate sanitation systems, imposing burdensome fines and liens, and ignoring the serious health risks plaguing the community, according to a landmark environmental justice agreement announced Thursday by the Biden administration.
“Today starts a new chapter for Black residents of Lowndes County, Ala., who have endured health dangers, indignities and racial injustice for far too long,” Kristen Clarke, an assistant attorney general at the Justice Department’s Civil Rights Division, said in announcing the agreement with local health officials and the Alabama Department of Public Health.

Monday’s agreement comes 18 months after the federal government launched an investigation into the situation in Lowndes — and after years of complaints from civic activists about sewage backups caused by failing septic tanks and exacerbated by climate change, including increased flooding.

“Overall, it’s a great day,” Catherine Coleman Flowers, who founded the Center for Rural Enterprise and Environmental Justice and has long worked to improve the sanitation problem in Lowndes, said in an interview Thursday. “It’s one step. And Lowndes County is just one of the many counties across the United States that is grappling with this particular issue. … It’s a first step. But it’s historic.”

Investigators from the Justice Department and the Department of Health and Human Services found that ADPH’s enforcement of sanitation laws “threatened residents of Lowndes County with criminal penalties and even potential property loss for sanitation conditions they did not have the capacity to alleviate.”

Their investigation also found that officials engaged in a “consistent pattern” of inaction and neglect concerning the health risks associated with raw sewage that permeated the soil and lingered near numerous homes. Alabama health officials were aware of the “disproportionate burden and impact” the problems imposed on Lowndes residents, investigators said, but they “failed to take meaningful actions to remedy these conditions.”

In a statement Thursday afternoon, ADPH underscored that it cooperated with the federal investigation and “maintains that it has never conducted its on-site sewage or infectious diseases and outbreaks programs in a discriminatory manner.”

“ADPH is pleased to have been able to reach this agreement, and looks forward to its implementation to benefit residents of Lowndes County,” the agency wrote.

For now, the central problem that led to the federal probe remain.

“In this community, literally, kids can’t go play outside. … You can’t step outside without seeing and smelling what is happening, in a way that affluent, White communities do not face,” Melanie Fontes Rainer, director of HHS’s Office for Civil Rights, said in an interview Thursday. “The fact this has gone on so long without action is significant.”

A litany of actions could now be on the way for the nearly 10,000 residents in Lowndes, a sparsely populated county located between Selma and Montgomery, where many people live in unincorporated areas that are not connected to municipal sanitation systems.

Nearly three-quarters of residents are Black, according to the latest census, and large numbers lack access to even the most basic municipal sewer systems — a consequence of years of underinvestment in infrastructure in poor and minority communities, environmental advocates said.

On rainy days, septic systems that residents rely on to treat waste often fail to drain properly into the region’s heavy clay soil. Raw sewage bubbles up into yards and homes. Federal officials said the high cost of purchasing septic tanks has led some residents to instead rely upon inadequate and stopgap measures, including using crudely constructed pipes or ditches to redirect wastewater away from their homes.

Some residents have been found to have hookworm, an intestinal parasite once thought to be largely eradicated in the South that hatches in moist soil and latches onto barefooted humans.

Federal officials said they hope Thursday’s voluntary agreement will begin to alter that reality in Lowndes.

 

In announcing the agreement, investigators said ADPH “fully cooperated” with the federal inquiry, and that the Justice Department and HHS agreed to suspend their ongoing investigation if Alabama officials follow through on a series of promised actions. Those include:

Suspending the enforcement of sanitation laws that result in criminal charges, fines, jail time and potential property loss for Lowndes residents who lack the means to purchase functioning septic systems.
Undertaking a “comprehensive assessment” of the septic and wastewater needs for residents in Lowndes, and outlining a “meaningful path” to improve access to adequate systems.
Working with the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention to assess health risks to different populations from exposure to raw sewage, and working with the CDC to adopt any public health recommendations.
Developing a public health awareness campaign using radio, print ads, fliers, mailers and door-to-door outreach, in an effort to “ensure residents receive critical health and safety information.”
Creating a “sustainable and equitable” plan within one year to improve public health and infrastructure in Lowndes County. The focus will be on improving access to adequate sanitation systems and alleviating health risks that come with exposure to raw sewage.
Transparency and collaboration with the local community. The agreement compels ADPH to “consistently engage with community residents, local government officials, experts in wastewater, infrastructure, soil and engineering, and environmental and public health experts and advocates” — and to inform the community at least quarterly on what progress is being made.
The effort to create a fairer and less toxic system for residents in Lowndes is in line with President Biden’s broader push to right long-standing environmental injustices around the country, which disproportionally fall upon low-income and minority communities.

Biden has ordered that all federal agencies take environmental justice into account in their decision-making, and he established a White House advisory council on the issue made up of veteran activists and experts. The administration also has said that it plans to ensure that 40 percent of new federal investments in clean energy and other climate-related initiatives go to communities that historically have been marginalized and overburdened by pollution.

Earlier this year, the administration began to roll out the first $100 million in environmental justice grants made possible by last year’s Inflation Reduction Act. The grants, which will be overseen by a new office of environmental justice and external civil rights at the Environmental Protection Agency, are among the first of an anticipated $3 billion in block grants that Congress created in August as part of Biden’s landmark climate bill.

“Unacceptable,” was how EPA Administrator Michael Regan described the situation in Lowndes after a visit last year, calling access to safe drinking water and sewer systems a basic right.

In a speech the following day, Regan said the struggles in Lowndes show “injustices that folks have been living with for decades — pipes protruding from the side of their homes, spilling waste into the same places where their children play.”

“The good people of Lowndes County show us that the fight for civil rights is inseparable from the fight for environmental justice, for health justice, for racial justice, for economic justice,” Regan added. “We cannot be for one without the other.”

Fontes Rainer said she believes Thursday’s agreement is a tangible step toward long-overdue justice for residents in Lowndes, but that it won’t be the last place where historic wrongs must be reversed.

“I hope that this agreement will serve as a warning sign and a notification to communities everywhere that this is not acceptable,” she said.

URL
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/these-black-alabamians-endured-poor-sewage-for-decades-now-they-may-see-justice/ar-AA1aKhn9?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=feffda06249b47af8d4c79e0d9965600&ei=13

 

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Interesting question and observations.

The first question that comes to MY mind about this article -especially when I read the title- is, are Black Americans truly NON-VIOLENT?
Seems to me a lot of violence is going on in many AfroAmerican communities; BY other AfroAmericans.
 

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@Pioneer1 I have two parts to my reply.

the first part is an assumption but I think a fair one. It isn't important to read cause you know the history. And the assumption while it may be insulting, I merely state bluntly. 

the second is a question.this is the part that for me has true value. 

 

FIRST PART

when I combine my point or your reply, I come to a simple position. 

Gardless of the poor choices of the black dos community in the usa or its white european imperial predecessor in the past, gardless of the poor leadership of black leaders in the black dos community in the usa or its european imperial predecessor  in the past, gardless of the quality of internal crime in non black communities whether more or less than the black community collectively or a segment of the black community in the usa today, you want black on black crime in the black community or a part like the Black DOS in the USA today to be zero. 

 

The Black DOS community is one of many Black communities in humanity. The Black DOS community has a set of historical phases: initial circa 1500s<black people from throughout all africa + within the indigenous american populace  are enslaved initially, ripped from their homes by whites, sometimes with black assistance, but always led by a white agenda> , complete enslavement, circa 1500s to circa 1865<blacks are still ripped like in the initial phase but most blacks, circa 90%, are born, raised,lived,and died, enslaved to whites in their entire life cycle>, reformation era, circa 1865 to circa 1965<black people are deemed by whites, not through violence, as citizens of the usa , and from the 13th amendment circa 1865 to the civil rights act circa 1965 black people spend one hundred years mostly nonviolent, mostly integrating to non blacks in the usa, gaining more legal rights slowly, while white violence becomes more complex through the usa states, where some states white populaces lessen violence towards blacks while most states white populace grow violence towards blacks>, integration era, circa 1965 to 2023 and till another major moment <Black people in the USA develop a growing one percent who are financially/governmentally integrated to whites in the usa, while the larger black community is functionally leaderless and absent any collective plan, forcing it to be a haven of hyper individualism, started by white violence circa 1965 which murdered countless numbers of black people who were willing to live their lives for collective solutions in the black community, honestly>

 

So three of said temporal phases: initial/complete enslavement/reformation era, by white historians, not Rich, are publicly stated as times of untold levels of white violence against black people. To restate in said three temporal phases of the Black DOS community, white violence to blacks was not a percentage of black violence to blacks but multiples of black violence to blacks. Even the black curator for the African American Museum in Washington D.C. , a member of that black one percent, that nonviolent stewards, that ardent integrationists, admitted that white hangings/burnings/maulings/drownings/simialrs to blacks people has an untold number. The proof is the article I shared above, for I am certain a black man hurt another black man in lowndes county Pioneer1, but I am also certain both of them are sick and lost a clan member through the sickness the entire black community in lowndes live in by the white community. 

 

So you are correct, in the integration era, where white violence is collectively lessened , black on black violence still occurs, freely absent a white slavemaster. And regardless of whether other communities have greater internal violence, which NYC current events can prove, What matters is Black on Black violence still exists and thus your goal is for it to be zero incidents. You may say I am wrong to assume. But considering history or other communities in modernity, that has to be the goal you feel need to be reached to not have a problem with black on black violence, which I admit I don't. In my view, the black community in the usa uses less violence toward its own than any other community except the native american which is a special case.  I can say for certain that white asians/white jews have far more internal violence toward their own than blacks and definitely black DOSers in NYC.

 

SECOND PART

You say that the black community in the usa isn't nonviolent, so it is violent. And you imply, though i can be wrong,  that the violence internally in the black community in the usa is at the least equal to any other group, regardless of population size or scale or circumstance. But the question is, why has black leadership not guided this violence? If the Black community in the usa is so violent then the black leadership in the usa has not guided or made more functional the violence of the black community in the usa to the benefit of the black community in the usa. My question, why is that? 

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16 hours ago, richardmurray said:

But the question is, why has black leadership not guided this violence? If the Black community in the usa is so violent then the black leadership in the usa has not guided or made more functional the violence of the black community in the usa to the benefit of the black community in the usa. My question, why is that? 

This question has been raised many times from the tone and tenor of your posts.

 

Surely, I've addressed it in some way at least once or twice or more. But, here goes again...

 

1) Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. (MLK Jr.), the most popular leader of ADOS (American Descendants of Slaves) aka AfroAmericans in the 20th century, preached non-violent resistance to the system of racism white supremacy.

 

Dr. King knew that a violent resistance would lead to the genocide of the AfroAmerican population.

 

The Afroamerican survivors of a violent resistance and their offspring would have been far worse off into perpetuity. 

 

America would resemble Great Britain if AfroAmericans had gone to war and lost a race war.

 

Also, losing a race war between AfroAmericans and whites would have wiped out the debt America owes to ADOS for 400 years of slavery and being marginalized as  2nd class citizens.

 

2) IMO, the assassination of Dr. MLK Jr. in addition to others, also killed the future of AfroAmerican leadership.

 

For over 50 years and counting, AfroAmericans have been devoid of leadership and rudderless as a community. 

 

IMO, it is the 1) fear of racism white supremacy and 2) complacency with the status quo that leaves AfroAmericans in a perpetual holding pattern on several fronts.

 

While many AfroAmericans are enjoying the benefits and perks of middle-class citizenship and gross consumerism, there are rumblings that the system of racism white supremacy needs to be dismantled and replaced. 

 

I may not live long enough to see the rising Phoenix of a Black man who will come along and crush the system of racism white supremacy and restore order throughout the planet.  But, I do believe it will happen eventually. 😎

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richardmurray

 


You say that the black community in the usa isn't nonviolent, so it is violent. And you imply, though i can be wrong,  

 

No, you're right.
The Black community in the U.S.A collectively IS violent; as are the White and Latino communities of the U.S.
But the AfroAmerican community tends to be MORE violent toward eachother than the White community.

 


that the violence internally in the black community in the usa is at the least equal to any other group, regardless of population size or scale or circumstance. But the question is, why has black leadership not guided this violence?

 

Not sure if they can.
Not only is the AfroAmerican community violent but largely UNDISCIPLINED and don't obey their so-called "leaders"....and in many cases today no longer even ACKNOWLEDGE having any.

Many AfroAmericans today will tell you they don't HAVE a "leader" to tell them what to do.

 

 

 

 

 If the Black community in the usa is so violent then the black leadership in the usa has not guided or made more functional the violence of the black community in the usa to the benefit of the black community in the usa. My question, why is that?

 

As stated before, lot of our people are hard-headed and won't listen to their so-called leadership.

If the leadership was very strict and used violence and the threat of violence...like the Panthers and Nation of Islam used to do....to ENFORCE the laws and codes among our people, then we'd be more obedient to the leadership.
But they don't.

 

It's like what me and frankster were discussing in another thread.
People today are choosing LOVE over discipline.
While we need both....when dealing with a BARBARIAN and in some cases SAVAGE people like a lot of our people in the U.S. today, you need to instill DISCIPLINE in them first so that they don't end up killing eachother and will appreciate the love you show them later.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

ProfD

 

 

America would resemble Great Britain if AfroAmericans had gone to war and lost a race war.

 

I'm not sure if that would be a worse alternative than what the U.S. looks like now....even for Black folks.

Black British people seem to be smarter and more educated than AfroAmericans....collectively speaking.


On a sad note......
I had an uncle who was born in the 1800s and lived to be old enough to witness the Crack era, Gangsta Rap, and the violence that resulted.
He used to say (back in the 90's) that in a few years niggaz would get so far out of control with the not working, robbing and killing that they'll be BEGGING White folks to put them back in slavery.....and they'll do it.  And after a while the killing will stop and the niggaz will be happy because they are working, eating, and got somebody telling them what to do and keeping them out of trouble.
I look at the behavior in our community and every now and then think about what he said.

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@ProfD the only problem I have to the first part of your reply, is I mentioned black leadership and the first part of your reply  focuses on MLK jr. 

To be blunt, the black preachers in the past, collectively was the black leader, not one. Adam Clayton powell jr was a pastor. The college of pastors succeeded plus failed in their guidance. They succeeded because the black community in the usa today is what they wanted.  Said pastors wanted a black community in the usa non violent, integrated,  fiscal capitalist, and the black community in the usa is that. The problem is too many black people wanted the pastors goals but thought you could then get an organized black community like the germans under the nazi's and to be blunt, you can't get a highly organized community like the nazi's absent violence with integration. You can't. The reason isn't impossibility but functionality. Integration by default means you invite manipulations that go against the group, by default ... yes, MLK jr is lauded but he wasn't alone. The historical fact is black christian preachermen were the majority of black leaders from the end of the war between the states to the 1970s. And the reality is the guidance succeeded plus failed. It failed in that what most black people wanted the leadership didn't and whenever a leadership goes against the majority of the people it is supposed to be leading, you get problems, always. Look at the two white parties in the USA. White people in rural usa didn't want integration, they didn't want immigrants to become citizens or to share resources. But elephant and the donkey , leaders of the white community did it. And sequentially problems.  I said leadership, not one leader. Leadership. 

 

To your second part, I want to only add one thing. The murder spree extended to the world. I don't know how many leaders the USA government plus other governments murdered throughout humanity during the 1950s-1960s-early 1970s, but I am certain they murdered the 1960s functionally. You say the black community is devoid of leadership today and I oppose that view. but the goal of the white power sysyem was to devoid all communities, including white ones of leadership that wasn't... acceptable by their plans. . When you look at Latin America, where in many countries many people still can't read, or write, my point is, the job on our leadership was part of a larger systemic thing that I think needs to be said. And to end, the black community in the usa has leadership. Obama is a black leader, the problem is, his goals or path do not reflect the majority of black people in the usa's, dreams or desires. 

 

@Pioneer1 I am sure they could had, I am sure of that. The problem is, black leadership didn't want that. this goes back to Frederick douglass. again, I think black people make too light of our own history in this country or its predecessors. The black church had greater sway over the black community in the late 1800s more than any black organization since, they could had suggested any path. Remember the black community in the usa in the late 1800s was nearly 100% christian. Nearly 100% DOS. the path the Black Chruch chose is the historical problem. The current problem is more complex, but the complex problem of today arrived from the past. 

Well listen, be fair to the black community. When the million man march happened, the black men came, to be guided, not lectured to, not bemoaned , but guided. did the tons of black leaders get on the podium and guide? no, so as I said to profd, people in the usa, all phenotypes, have this dysfunctional logic where a group of people should not act like the people in their leadership are failing. The black leaders in washington dc during the million man march told a million black men to care only for their individual selves, and so they did, even though they were looking for something else. 

 

ahh the nation of islam wasn't pan black though. Again, you have to assess leaders weaknesses. Malcolm , the son of a garveyite , was about the entire village, but the nation of islam. They like the black church wanted converts to their religion, and the black panthers for self defense, wanted to bear arms, use arms and the black church was against that during that time or now. I paraphrase al sharpton when asked about his movement in NYC:  when you start these things there are many people who want to do various things, but I wanted to have a christian, non violent movement.  

Do you comprehend pioneer? The black panthers were a minority movement in the community. White media loved showing them but they were never a majority movement. It is like hippies in he white community. Movies and media made white hippies like they were taking over the white community, they were always a minority in the white community in the usa. so... their real power was far less. 

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Since the religion most Black preachers practice was handed down to them from white supremacists, they are playing the game from a compromised position. 

 

Religion forbids violence by way of its commandments.   Yet another reason that Black leaders of the Christian faith didn't believe in using violence against the oppressor.

 

Regardless of their religious beliefs, white folks will kill anybody who gets in the way including their own kinds when it comes to maintaining power which is the system of racism white supremacy.

 

To date, Black folks all over the planet through indoctrination (religion) and fear have been trained not to use violence in order to dismantle the system of racism white supremacy.  

 

POTUS Obama was a Black leader by virtue of his skin color but as stated, he did not represent the wants, needs and desires of AfroAmericans and/or Black people throughout the world.

 

POTUS Obama did what the system of racism white supremacy allowed him to do which for the majority of Black people was symbolism. He sat in the seat.

 

For 8 years, white folks let POTUS Obama pass laws for every other minority group but when it came to Black folks, he was sitting behind the sit behind the wheel of a vehicle parked in neutral, revving the engine and flashing the lights.🤣😎

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@ProfD :) I quote you religion forbids violence by way of its commandments So the people killed or harmed in the crusades , I believe four of them occurred, <soldiers/civilians/whomever>was by accident?

 

If black leaders of the christian faith in the usa were like the pope during the crusades in europe or the protestant preachers during the reformation in europe or the catholic preachers during the counter- reformation in europe , or nat turner in the usa who supposedly had an epiphany by the christian god... well .

 

fair enough to whites, but my original question was to black folk about the quality of black leadership and black leadership has always been in existence, and with choices to make,  even when whites had pure shackles on most black peoples neck, with all of white peoples influence or training. 

 

I apologize if I said all black people , but if I said all <I didn't look at my prior message> I apologize again. I meant to say, Obama didn't reflect the wants desires or needs of a majority, overwhelming majority of black people in the usa or larger humanity, but being the leader of a minority group in the black community still makes you a leader. And Obama had choices, free for him to make, the myth is that all his actions were a predetermined algorithm, that is not true.  As Obama said to a white man, I paraphrase, he is not the president of black people but all people. And, for historical fairness, all Obama did was prescribe to the position of Frederick Douglass, ala Our Composite Nation speech , it is below, read it if you want proof, The way Obama led clearly makes him a disciple of Douglass. I could be wrong but I think Obama had a bust of douglass in his office. Which is telling.   

 

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Thou shalt not kill is one of the 10 commandments.

 

I've already mentioned that white folks do not follow the same book when it comes to killing folks.

 

Black folks are afraid to kill white folks.  They instinctively know the punishment will be harsh and severe.

 

Black *leadership* has always tried to operate within the parameters of the system of racism white supremacy.  They have never sought to overthrow and/or dismantle it.

 

37 minutes ago, richardmurray said:

I apologize if I said all black people , but if I said all <I didn't look at my prior message> I apologize again. I meant to say, Obama didn't reflect the wants desires or needs of a majority

No need for apology.  You did not type the world all Black folks.  You used the word majority.

 

38 minutes ago, richardmurray said:

As Obama said to a white man, I paraphrase, he is not the president of black people but all people.

That is the only reason white folks allowed him to be POTUS.  They knew he would not do anything to to help Black folks nor dismantle the system of racism white supremacy.

 

Nat Turner was the last Black man willing to put in the work that needed to be done in order to truly liberate Black folks from their white oppressors.  

 

The example white folks made out of killing at Turner; lynchings, state sanctioned executions and assassinations of Black men throughout history  has discouraged any and all ideas of a race war an/or a violent protest.

 

For 400 years and counting, Black folks have been trying to to peacefully coexist, survive and thrive within the system of racism white supremacy even when it literally kills us.😎

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@ProfD

 

Thank you, I unfortunately originally went into my repeating myself, with the original reply, but within, I realized. something. And , it is more functional than the reply I originally intended to you. Although said intention is truth, it leads to nothing. I do think to many black people including myself get into a battle of proselytization, stating their positions over and over, cause they don't connect. 

 

What is your vote ?

 

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Was the non-violent path charted by Dr. King, his associates and hundreds of others been worth it? Sure it was.

However, times have changed. If you really think that Black people can take on the vicious and heavily armed members of White Supremacy groups, then paint up some signs and begin advocating for it.

Or did you miss the latest mall shooting in Texas? The killer was dressed in military fatigues, was armed with an AR-15, the go-to tool of many mass killers and fools and also sported a patch beloved by those who cannot stand us that said "Right Wing Death Squad."

 

Now, if ya'll need a treatise on the non-violent approach meaning something that is no way symbolically or philosophically connected to Dr. King - then get someone competent and knowledgeable to author it.

I just cannot see gathering up a bunch of Black folks and getting violent over years of poor sewage. There are more intelligent ways to address that problem. 

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On 5/5/2023 at 7:08 PM, richardmurray said:

Has the choice by Black people to be nonviolent or integrated to whites in the usa been worth it for the Black DOS populace? I know it has been worth it for a Black 10% but for the majority of the village, has it been worth it? 

 

@richardmurray I don't think that there is an easy way to answer this question imo.

In a sense, I don't believe that dealing with certain issues like sewage problems in Black communities in a confrontational and violent manner would help the people suffering. If they would have protested, the question in my mind is how long would they have to protest before their voices would be heard? It great that this issue is being addressed but it is stressful to know that children were playing in areas where raw sewage existed in their communities. 

 

I read the entire speech of Frederick Douglas that was postedand I think that he believed that Chinese people should be allowed to immigrate to America without being oppressed and sent away along with any other kind of immigrants who have been welcomed into America. And so, if Obama think on the same lines as Frederick Douglass, then it makes sense to why some Black Americans feel their concerns were ignored! Man!

 

 

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