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8 Reasons For Marital Failure Amongst African Americans


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Until Death Do Us Part: 8 Reasons For Marital Failure Amongst African Americans

By Dr. Umar Abdullah-Johnson, Psy.D., NCSP, M.Ed.

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Nationwide (November 6, 2011) -- Discussions about the epidemic are everywhere, from the latest best-selling novels to academic discussions on college campuses, to passionate discussions between Frat brothers & Sister circles. The question everyone wants answered is "WHY?" Unfortunately, many of the traditional reasons you have been given for the premature romantic meltdowns amongst Blacks are inaccurate and insufficient. These very same factors were present when successful Black marriages, created 30 or 40 years ago, were forged but yet many a couple managed to stay together.

As a child therapist, who spends much of my time navigating the parental relationship in order to create an atmosphere of normalcy in which our children can function, and as a doctor of clinical psychology, who studies the emotional and psychological conditions that give rise to relationship difficulties that are unique to African-Americans, I have discovered that there are several themes running through failed families that if brought to your consciousness may help you escape a dead end relationship, or be able to help resuscitate a dying one back into new life.

With nearly most Black children being reared in single parent households it shouldn't come as a surprise that the ADHD diagnosis has been on the rise, which in most cases has nothing to do with any neurologically-based brain dysfunction, but rather a family-based emotional dysfunction that I refer to sarcastically but truthfully as "Absence of Daddy from Home Disorder," which is the real ADHD. If we want to save the Black community, we have to save the Black family, for if the most essential of institutions is destroyed then almost no other can function effectively.

1) SEARCHING FOR SECURITY: UNMET EMOTIONAL NEEDS FROM CHILDHOOD - Because so many of us either come from families that were dysfunctional, or had relationships with parents that were dysfunctional, it's not difficult to understand how one's unconscious conflicts may lead you on a search to find what you never had (i.e., SECURE ATTACHMENT TO A CAREGIVER, ATTENTION, ACCEPTANCE, LOVE/INTIMACY, APPROVAL, TRUST, RECIPROCITY). Because one's relationship behavior, under such circumstances, is largely under the control of unconscious impulses it should come as no surprise to you that selfishness ranks at the top of the list of reasons for relationship dissatisfaction. When your dating or mating behavior is largely driven by an unmet childhood need, your partner simply becomes a means to an end, but NOT the end itself. Thusly, you end up using and exploiting them, for what they can give to you, without offering anything in return. You must become conscious of how your poor relationships with parents, or siblings, is continuing to play out in your romantic behavior, transforming you into an exploiter or victim of emotional exploitation. Before settling down, you'd being doing yourself a huge favor by having an in-depth discussion with your bride or groom to be, to ensure their reasons for marriage are not based upon attempting to overcome childhood insecurities that have plagued them for most of their lives.

2) SELF-HATRED: LOOKING FOR SOMEONE TO LOVE YOU - Many people are their own worse enemy but are totally unconscious of this fact. When something goes wrong in your life do you chalk it up to a learning experience, or human error, or are you one of many Blacks who begins to replay old abusive audiotapes from memory, with your parents' voices (or older siblings) disguised as your own. Do you beat yourself up without mercy, or are you able to comfort yourself when you make mistakes. If your inner voice is that of an abusive and overly punitive parent, chances are you suffer from self-hatred, and it is this self-hatred that is driving you to find a mate who can put out your self-inflicted emotional arson with their cool waters of love and compassion. You can spend a significant portion of your life trying to find love until you come to the realization that you will not be able to reciprocate the love you find if you do not ALREADY love yourself. No matter how much another person loves you, until you love yourself, you will never be able to love them in return appropriately or effectively. In fact, they may choose to walk away from the arrangement after having their emotional forces sucked dry without reciprocity. You don't need a lover, you need a therapist.

3) MATERIALISM MELTDOWN: BUYING HAPPINESS - Needless to say that in a capitalistic society the corporate-owned media will actually be able to convince some African-Americans that marrying someone with economic potential, and the education to go along with it (i.e., MBA, JD, MD, PhD, PsyD, etc) may actually brainwash you into thinking that to find a person who appears able to help your purchase an upper middle class lifestyle may lead to lasting happiness. Nothing could be further from the truth. Listen to me carefully, "money buys pleasure, it can never buy happiness." In fact, the pleasures that money buy often lead to addictions that destroy relationships. This is not an invitation to a life of poverty often so well propagated by the religious sector, that many Blacks erroneously find poverty to be a blessings, but rather this is just a dosage of psychological realism that peace of mind cannot be purchased. Many Black marriages simply dissolve when one superficial partner is no longer content with the "financial ceiling" their partner has hit. A high maintenance partner, man or woman, spells disaster. These individuals are self-centered and emotionally distant. They never get the last laugh as sooner or later old age creeps upon them, and the wisdom of contentment begins to haunt them, but not before then with they give up their self-centered capitalistic mindset to begin the search for an intimacy and love that cannot be purchased with a credit card.

4) ESCAPING MISERY: LOOKING FOR A WAY OUT OF YOUR PAIN - Many of us look for relationships not to satisfy our unmet needs, or our economic desires, but rather as a life jacket to save us from dealing with personal challenges that we don't care to address. All of us have things about ourselves that cause us great discomfort (i.e, problems with relatives, health concerns, dietary issues, professional barriers, unfinished goals, problems on the job, unearned degrees, poor relations with our children, emotional concerns, etc), but yet we don't have the resolve or discipline to face them. Just as an alcoholic or drug user reaches for substances in times of inner pain and turmoil, you simply reach for a new relationship. As all drugs must ultimately reach a point of tolerance, where more is required to retain the desired effect, as soon as one relationship is no longer sufficient to distract us from our personal emotional issues, we discard it and reach for another. RELATIONSHIP ADDICTS, Blacks who cannot be without a romantic partner, is a very real and prevalent concern in our community. Being addicted to relationships is certain to land one in an ongoing, yet unfulfilling, cycle of relationships that are devoid of true reciprocity and intimacy. The problem with relationship addiction is that the relationship cannot save you from yourself, nor can it ever serve as an effective band-aid for your inner conflicts. It's better to fix yourself than destroy someone else's life. Anyone who cannot be alone long enough to develop a relationship with themselves can never build a happy one with another person.

5) POST-TRAUMATIC RELATIONSHIP DISORDER: THE GHOST OF RELATIONSHIPS PAST - In an attempt to acquire happiness, which cannot be obtained from any outside source, including people, many of us do not allow ourselves sufficient time to heal from long-term relationships, or short-term exhausting relationships, that have sapped our emotional, spiritual and psychological energies. Between relationships we all need a period of fasting, where we give our minds and souls the opportunity to heal and rest, before we attempt to "get it right the next time." We always hear talk about the need for dietary fasting and spiritual fasting, but now is the time for me to introduce the concept of relationship fasting. Yes, a period of NON-DATING, that should last at least a season (3 months) before you infect some innocent person's life with the negative energy of a past relationship. Just as with all traumas, you need time to re-stabilize your inner self and regain a sense of reality. When you don't give yourself TIME OFF from forging new romantic attachments you risk spoiling what otherwise would have been a perfectly good relationship with your psychic baggage from your previous love(s). You are not able to trust, love, commit, reciprocate and be emotionally available for fear that he or she may be a rendition of the previous failed partnership. If you are still afraid, that means you are still suffering the aftershocks of post-traumatic relationship disorder, and should not be dating. This is one of the biggest problems with relationships in our community, as too many of us are spiritually infected with the unhealthy energies of past encounters, not to mention still in love with previous partners, thusly wasting the time of an innocent person who has healthy relationship needs that you are not able to fulfill since you are still preoccupied with someone who is no longer in your life, or shouldn't be. You have to get over your past in order to get on with your life. There is a season for everything, including a time to heal.

6) TYRANNY OF YOUR INNER CHILD: THE PAIN BODY EXPERIENCE - Everyone, regardless of Race, has a pain body. An inner child who has never really grown up, and has been wounded in some way during our earlier years. This inner child usually sleeps and never bothers us until something happens, usually something that causes an intense insecurity, embarrassment or fear, sufficient enough to awake the sleeping inner kid and causes him/her to have a temper tantrum. When we date we are usually selling our conscious better selves to our partner, like a good salesperson we tend to hide, consciously or unconsciously, the negative aspects of our character, which tend to reveal themselves until an experience occurs that lessens our ego's desire to hide its TRUE SELF. So you've been dating for 3 years and now she's pregnant, or the two of you decide to co-habitate, or get engaged, or get married. Now, finally, the real you will begin to reveal itself. That's right, not just the positive side of your personality that has been on display the past 3 years, but the negative side of your personality is about to show itself for the very first time, and in full effect. Once your partner's pain body has been awaken, that tyrannical inner child, you are face-to-face with a person that you never really knew. You have never seen him/her under real stress until now, and you realize you have been sold a false personality picture, and you thusly decide it's time to end a situation that has been 3 years in the making but only 3 months in duration. This is why most Black divorcees do so within 2 years of jumping the broom - they never saw their partner's pain body until it's too late. That is why, as a therapist, I am in full support, despite opposition of religious circles, that pre-marital co-habitation is a must. Only when you actually share 24 hrs a day with your mate-to-be will you truly be able to assess who they really are. It is so very easy to hide one's negative traits behind a false façade of being the "perfect catch." Until you have seen his/her pain body, regardless of how many years into the relationship, you are still dating a stranger.

7) WE DON'T HAVE ANYTHING IN COMMON: THE CLASH OF VALUES - One of the biggest misconceptions regarding Black marriage is the need to have things in common. This is so not true, you don't need to have anything in common (i.e, careers, hobbies, interests, etc) EXCEPT VALUES. Two people may appears to be twins on the outside, coming from the same types of homes, same religious backgrounds, same careers, same hobbies and interests but yet be total opposites INTERNALLY. Non-identical values are destroying Black families faster than fire consumes wood. At the top of the list is finances. You may love to spend money, and live paycheck to paycheck, but your mate values saving over the long term, and not being a spendthrift. Such a clash of values is likely to erode the foundation upon which the marriage stands. Another is GOD. You love going to worship service, and it's a regular part of your weekly routine. However, your mate, who is of the same religion and claims to value God as much as you do, doesn't see the need to attend bible study or Friday/Sunday worship at the Masjid/Church. This is going to cause a major conflict because it heightens the true values gap that exists between the two of you. Some of the others include intimacy, in-laws & friends. You may like to spend more time with your friends that your family, or you mother may like to play a bigger role in your marriage than she should, or you think that physical intimacy one night a week should be sufficient while your partner values regular intimacy as a foundational aspect to his/her marriage. Clashes over values can be easily avoided by making sure they are discussed during the dating/courting process. When you clash over values it's because you really didn't take sufficient time to get to know your mate. You were so busy focusing on your own values that you didn't bother to study his/hers.

8) BLENDING THE UNBLENDABLE FAMILY: YOUR CHILDREN OR OUR CHILDREN - Co-Raising children, even if the children are biologically your own, can be a very difficult issue to tackle in marriage. However, when you have children and your mate has children of his/her own, brining all of those personalities under the same family governmental system can be quite a challenge. Sometimes, we never prepare ourselves for the fact that marriage truly means "what is yours is also mine." Thusly, it becomes difficult for us to allow someone else to chastise our children. When partners feel that you don't want them raising your children they begin to question the commitment your have for them overall. Think about it, what better way to show trust and true reciprocity than to allow him/her the opportunity to share in the decision-making duties of their non-biological children. When you are not able to do this it creates a trust gap in the relationship that can only widen with time. Still further, when you differ over how the children should be raised and discipline techniques, or even just the need for discipline itself, things can begin to get really rocky in that once peaceful household. As a therapist, I have seen the Black mothers' traditional over-protection of her son lead to standoffs with her new husband, who refuses to share power, nor should he, with a spoiled teenage boy. I have also seen where a biological father's love for his daughter has prevented him from making it clear that his wife is not one of her girlfriends. When these small fires are not stamped out of existence, they threaten to burn down the entire marriage. Before settling down, spend some time with your mate's children, get to know them, and ask yourself if you can tolerate those particular personalities for the rest of YOUR life. Study how different your discipline approaches are, and whether or not you can find common ground, especially when you don't share the role of biological parent. Most importantly, check your own possessiveness, and readiness for having another person treat your children like their own. If you are not ready for this, then you are not ready for marriage.

These are just a few major issues that can threaten, add oftentimes destroy, what could have otherwise been a happy marriage in the Black community. Certainly, a book can be written about each of the above-mentioned issues, and I plan to follow-up by doing just that. Nonetheless, we should want what's best for our children, and that is a safe and happy home with their biological parents. None of us are perfect, and there is nothing wrong with moving past a terrible situation, as staying in an emotionally unfulfilling relationship, just for the sake of the kids, can end up hurting the children more than you. Let's face it, we live in a psychologically unhealthy society, where the pursuit of material, economic & professional accomplishment has reduced the importance of family and children to being nothing more than social assets we use to given the impression that we are psychologically healthy, when in all actuality we are rotting from the stench of American Capitalism. Just take a look at the suicide and homicide rates in the Black community, and you will see that we are a people in crisis. Still further, just take a look at the rates of depression, bipolar & borderline personality disorders in our community, and you will see that our people, a historically faithful people, are now dying from spiritual hunger. Domestic violence and child molestation are two taboo topics that neither the Black Masjid or Black Church is willing to discuss openly and honestly, which leaves it to crusading Black behavioral specialists, like myself, to set the record straight as to why so many of us are living as "functional depressives." The Black family is facing extinction because the spiritually-grounded non-materialistic African-American personality is facing extinction. Two spiritually unhealthy individuals cannot build a healthy family. The point of intervention should not be the family, but the individuals who created it. Stop putting the cart before the horse, career before family, and money before GOD.

Umar Abdullah-Johnson is a Doctor of Clinical Psychology, Nationally Certified School Psychologist, Certified K-12 School Principal, and political scientist. He is an expert independent special education evaluator. He trains educators, principals and mental health technicians on various psycho-educational topics, including ADHD & disruptive behavior disorders. He is an outspoken opponent against the mass psychiatric drugging of Black boys in public schools, and the mass diagnosing of Black children as mildly mentally retarded and learning disabled. He has appeared on the Tom Joyner Morning Show, the Bev Smith Show, and countless radio and talk shows across the country, in Africa and in the Caribbean. He will be speaking at Arcadia University's Black Male Development Symposium in Philadelphia on May 12th, 2012, HBCU Charles Drew University, Keck Lecture Hall, in Los Angeles on December 2nd 2012 & the 12th Annual Central Texas African-American Family Conference in Austin on February 16th 2012, discussing the topic of his highly anticipated upcoming debut book, "The Psycho-Academic War Against Black Boys: From Grade School to the Grave Yard." He is Founder/President of the National Movement to Save Black Boys (NMSBB), and a blood relative of Frederick Douglass, the 19th century Abolitionist & Orator. He can be reached for consultation or lecture scheduling at DrUmarJohnson@yahoo.com or (215) 989-9858.

http://www.blacknews.com/news/marital_failure_african_americans101.shtml

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  • 5 years later...
On 11/7/2011 at 0:10 PM, anika99 said:

With nearly most Black children being reared in single parent households it shouldn't come as a surprise that the ADHD diagnosis has been on the rise, which in most cases has nothing to do with any neurologically-based brain dysfunction, but rather a family-based emotional dysfunction that I refer to sarcastically but truthfully as "Absence of Daddy from Home Disorder,"

The absence of a relationship-role model should be recognized as the no. 1 reason for marital failure... Having an understanding on how to relate to a partner/spouse will allow the couple to navigate the other obstacles presented here.

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True, but I think the biggest problem we have is the culture.  

The world was a very different place 50 years ago when Black marriages were far more likely to succeed.  Today there are so many things that work against a successful marriage it is amazing anyone can make one last at all. Perhaps that is why a substantial majority of marriage don't make it.

I think it is wrong to lay this problem down solely at the feet of the individual.  

There is no relationship role model because the culture changes so rapidly as soon a relationship model emerges it is obsolete.  

It was not that long ago when finding a mate online was impossible, then it was considered weird, now it is one of the top ways people find their mates. I prefer the old fashioned way because it is much easier to assess someone in person than it is online.

I don't like algorithms used for this purpose I think humans are losing valuable skills by relying on some corporate algorithm to find a mate.  Given the steady decline in the rates of marriage and increasing divorce rates, these algorithms are obviously not doing a very good job and may be making thing worse

I don't have the answer.  I actually don't think there is an answer in the context of our current culture.  The writing has been on the wall for some time now: the days of monogamous, to-death-do-us-part days or marriage are over.  The end of children being raised in a household with to opposite-sex biological parents is natural consequence

Of course, there will never be a shortage of people who will profit off telling people how to achieve a successful marriage.  What surprises me is that the individuals making the most money doing this, including Dr. Umar, have failed to demonstrate the ability in their own lives.

I speak as someone who has been married to the same woman since 1990.

 

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Ah man.....Dr Umar Johnson is my boy!

I see him as one of the greatest Black leaders in America today.
His knowledge and charisma puts him on the level of a modern Malcolm.


I agree with most of what Dr Johnson has listed, but I agree with what Troy said that the BIGGEST reason for failure in Black marriages today is CULTURE.

Modern American culture and especially AfroAmerican culture promotes individualism, sexual freedom, and doesn't punish or ostracize people for being single or even single with children today like it did in the past so people are free to live their lives however they want.

We're not as religious as we used to be which was also a major part in why we got married.

Plus, most Black men just want to have fun rather than take on the responsibilities of marriage that many intuitively know they aren't qualified for in this society.

The truth be told, I think the only reason most White men still get married is so that they can dominate someone and have authority over them.
They'll go all the way over to Thailand or Indonesia and pay hundreds of thousands of dollars with a promised monthly payment to the family of thousands MORE just to get ONE skinny little woman he can call his "own" to bring back to America and rule her around.

*If I ever had to leave the country and pay money for a wife, I'm gonna get SEVERAL while I'm there....lol.

Which reminds me of another reason so many Black men are reluctant to get married......this society forces monogamy both legally and socially.
Most Black men tend to be polygamous by nature and because this society was founded by White men from northern Europe where monogamy and celibacy was the norm....it was imposed upon them.
Once we got the freedom to get out form under that structure, most of us abandoned it and because that was the ONLY type of marriage allowed in this society...unfortunately many of us abandoned marriage all together.



Honestly, I don't think MOST human beings were meant to be married.
I think it's an artificial social institution that was developed as a way to:
1. Keep men from killing eachother over women so much by
2. Because women were considered property for so much of the world, wives were a sign of wealth and status.

I think the NEW way of families in the NEW world will be GROUP FAMILIES.
Instead of the typical nuclear family with one man with one wife having children, it will be several men and several women in one household raising all of their children together as a small village like structure but inside an urban environment.

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2 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

White men still get married is so that they can dominate someone and have authority over them

LOL! You clearly haven't been married to a white man...hahaha

2 hours ago, Troy said:

I think the biggest problem we have is the culture

@Troy, why is culture a problem? 

When I say a relationship -role model, I'm referring to the fact we learn how to relate to others from the relationships we witness early on. We model what we see - so the first intimate relationship we witness is our parents.  What ever they do in their partnership - is what we will do/and seek in our own intimate relationships.  In the absence of witnessing a relationship of mommy and daddy - we go to grandma and granddad...after that it's to the streets and "relationship gurus"

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Pioneer do you think Dr Umar should be telling people how to run the lives given his behavior?  

Mel, my parent's marriage lasted from 1960 until 1977 when my father died.  Even if their marriage was ideal, the world is so different today than it was back then their experiences would almost be irrelevant today.

The culture is a problem is more ways than I can get into in right now, but pioneer touched a many of them.  Do you remember the dance we used to call "the freak?" Nevermind, I would have to tell you things about ghetto culture and how men relate to women that I don't honestly feel like talking about it...

Del grew up in Hunts Point he can probably relate a little bit about what I'm talking about.

The model's many Black men are exposed to do NOTHING to facilitate a long term relationship with women.  But this ghetto mentality has spilled over into the larger culture.  Have you listened to rap music lyrics the generation after us was exposed to?

Have you considered the consumer mentality, have you considered the transition from books to screens and the information these screen relate... I don't know Mel if you don't see (or perceive) how the culture we live in adversely impact long-term relationship before they get started I'm not sure what I can tell you...

Surely you understand how hyper-incarceration, shitty schools, predatory lending, etc have disproportionately destroyed Black families right?  

 

 

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Troy

Not exactly sure what behavior of his you're referring to.

I know you mentioned that he was unmarried.
I also believe there was some controversy about him and his past relationship with an exotic dancer.

Other than that, he seems like a well educated and structured professional Black man who hasn't personally chosen marriage for himself.

But you may have to fill in your question with a little more context.
 

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There is nothing about him that you probably don't already know. You probably know more about him than I do Pioneer.  After looking just now I do see the stuff about him and what you call an "exotic dancer" we used to just call them whores.  But at any rate, he has children by different women he is not married to.

While this is not unusual behavior today, most of the folks that do this stuff don't go around presenting themselves as someone who can help others. 

Again, Pioneer do you think he is the right person to be talking about maintaining healthy marriages? 

I know he is a dynamic and popular speaker, so I understand the appeal.  But I think we should be a bit more discriminating when we start throwing around accolades like "greatest Black leader," to men based on charisma.

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52 minutes ago, Troy said:

Mel, my parent's marriage lasted from 1960 until 1977 when my father died.  Even if their marriage was ideal, the world is so different today than it was back then their experiences would almost be irrelevant today.

It doesn't have to be ideal but a model so you'd have a bit of road map on how to cultivate a relationship.  Growing a relationship isn't dependent on a changing culture - relationship building skills are timeless.

My parents  grew up together and were best friends - I took my first clues from their marriage and modeled my intimate relationships after there's; sometimes with mixed results.  You've been married since the 1990...this would give an indication you have a clue to how to build your relationship with your spouse.  Now this doesn't mean you can advise me on how to build a relationship but you do know how to build a relationship that matters and it's a long-term one with your partner.  That's what I meant.  Today,  many people don't have that first relationship to imitate.  So they turn to the streets...and then as you mentioned " do NOTHING to facilitate a long term relationship with women." and that's problematic.

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Troy

Again, Pioneer do you think he is the right person to be talking about maintaining healthy marriages?

The greatness of a leader isn't necessarily in the example he gives in his personal life, but what he inspires OTHERS to do in their own lives.

Because he is charismatic enough to motivate and educate Black people into making better choices....yes.....I think he is.

Andrew Carnegie didn't know the first thing about chemistry or the making of steel, but he built a fortune inspiring OTHERS to make it for him.

 

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@Mel Hopkins I guess I should have written "positive role model." I'd image most of have models but are they ones worth replicating.  Still even if they were would they hold today in a world that is so very different.

For example, my Mother says her father treated his wife like she was one of the other children.  This, however, was not unusual behavior for the time in the south.  However, my mom would never allow a man to treat her in the same manner in the midst of the women's lib era, even by a man who was raised with the same model--it would never work. 

I've demonstrated far more skill at maintaining a marriage than Umar, but I would never go around telling people how to do it. Obviously, all of his training has not helped him very much.  How could he possibly help someone else?

@Pioneer1 , maybe you are right.  I don't know enough about him.  Although I did also see some indications that he was ripping people off with the money he was raising for some school (I did not read the articles, as I was looking for his marriage status). 

I suggest that you assess Dr. Umar with the same critical lens that you use to assess Del's psychic ability ;)

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2 hours ago, Troy said:

Still even if they were would they hold today in a world that is so very different.

This has been my experience... My relationship model hasn't worked for me until either he or I left the relationship.  I'm a firm believer in being friends with my intimate partner or spouse - but while in the relationship it seemed as if my mate was always suspicious of my motives.   When it was finally a bust - then the dude always came around to be one of my best confidants and friend...(you can imagine how many guy friends I have now - that I can actually count on when I need them. )

Still It was bizarre to me , still is,  but  from your perspective I can see how our culture breed adversaries and how and why my relationship model has been difficult at best.  

Good talk, good talk! :)

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I was married to the same man  from June 1956 to June of 2006. he died from cancer a month after our 50th wedding anniversary. Unfortunately this in no way makes me an expert of marriage. My input would be to say that sometimes marriage goes through stages and either gets better or worse. And it helps if the 2 participants are mature adults, not children playing house. 

Back in the 1950s, getting married  was something every girl wanted and expected. There was no shacking up and having babies outside of marriage was frowned upon. Even "shot gun marriages" were whispered about.


i wed at 22 because that was the age all the women in my family did.  My friends were all getting married and i met a guy who i had a lot in common with; who was "Mr. Alright". There were no bells and whistles or starry eyed love at first sight. But it did  come at second sight.  After taking the plunge, things didn't always go well due to growing pains.

By the time we reached our 40s , with the kids out of the way, and money no longer a major problem, our marriage came into its own and became fun and exciting.  i enjoyed and appreciated having him as a companion and a lover and somebody to go out with and have a good time, partying. i was glad we stuck it out instead of breaking up over a lot of silly things like some of my friends did.  

The final stage were just us trying to grow old gracefully, and i was there alone with him in the middle of the night, sitting beside his hospital bed,  when he took his last breath.  i squeezed his limp hand, kissed his parted lips and lost myself in a moment of silence.  I had no regrets.

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Troy

I suggest that you assess Dr. Umar with the same critical lens that you use to assess Del's psychic ability

I have.....and unlike Delano.....Dr Johnson has actually PASSED the exam....lol.

Really, with me....everyone who makes a claim starts off as NEUTRAL meaning I don't believe them nor do I consider them a liar.  I simply wait and see by observation whether or not their claims can be backed by facts and action.

In Umar Johnson's case, h
e claims to be a Pan African psychologist, organizor and motivator of Black people, and a defender of Black boys who are unfairly diagnosed with ADD and other disorders.
He has more than backed up all of those claims with facts and actions.

 

 

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Damn Cynique, you do know how to cut out all the superficiality and get right to the meat with ease.  It makes your writing very compelling.

@Cynique , do you think it was better for the culture when  "There was no shacking up and having babies outside of marriage was frowned upon."  I'm 55 and I remember those days--it was not that long ago.  I also remember all of my childhood friends came from two parent homes.  In fact, in order to get an apartment in "the projects," you had to be married.  But this was before "da' PJs" became associated with urban decay and blight.  The rule for marriage seen anachronistic by today's standards, and almost no one is married, thought different men do cycle through.

Unlike your generation Cynique I think more people struggle financially as they get older money problem increase, crazy mortgages, student loan debt, taxes, uncovered medical expenses, pillaged pension funds, expensive divorces, etc.

I hear you @Pioneer I have never seen Umar speak in person.  I actually I have never been able to get through any of his videos.  Can you direct me to a video that you like I'll listen to him with fresh ears.  I seem to remember him being really hard on homosexuals.

@Mel Hopkins, marriage is often different than friendship.you're more inclined to tell you friend how you'd like to bang the waitress who just served you, but you are less likely to tell your wife with the same enthusiasm.

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1 hour ago, Troy said:

marriage is often different than friendship.you're more inclined to tell you friend how you'd like to bang the waitress who just served you, but you are less likely to tell your wife with the same enthusiasm.

@Troy This is probably why I'm no longer married. I couldn't live with someone who is less than honest with me.  No stranger in my bed thank you very much. Even my children are honest with me, and I them, to the best of our ability.   Sometimes, they will stop me and say TMI... or I'll say to them, I'm glad you told me after the fact, or  would probably have lost my mind.   But family needs to be closer than friends in my book.  Friendship is where intimacy begins.   

@Cynique beautiful!  Your life stories always leave me verklempt. 

Yours, is what I was looking for in a marriage - now I wonder if I should have said yes, to "mr alright" too.  In fact, I see what Troy means - if it were the 50s I most likely would have.  My  mother still thinks I'm crazy for not saying yes to him too.  (he was kinda gorgeous and even successful for his age.) Ah hindsight - she really is 20-20

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@ Troy:  I think children fare better in the stability of a 2-parent home. But i don't think marriage necessarily improves a relationship between 2 people and  it may even stifle it. Which brings me to the point of having kids.  Women shouldn't feel obligated to have children.  If they want their freedom and their career and and a live-in or friends with benefits, then they shouldn't feel guilty about leading this kind of life.   Once a woman has children, her whole life changes and if she isn't committed to making all the sacrifices motherhood involves, then she should not succumb to the pressures of society. Some women are able to be successful at both, but others lose their identity to motherhood and live through their children.  My point is, a woman should have options and, of course, this includes the one of having a same sex partner.  

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Ahh the wisdom of age and hindsight.  Mel you and Cynique could probably team up and write a very interesting book on relationships, marriage, and children. Not a preaching how to book but stories that relate your experiences in revealing way that would strike a cord with people because they understand how you felt.

It is one thing to boast about being married for 50 years and quite another to explain why it was not perfect but that you still derived joy from it. You are not telling others how they can do it too, but you are helping them to see that their less than picture perfect marriage is perfectly normal because they can see themselves in your stories. Does that make sense?

@Mel Hopkins, I watched that film I Origins over the weekend.  {Spoiler Alert} Remeber the scene where the guy was masturbating to his ex-girlfriend's photos and perfume and his wife's reaction when she busted him?  Her reaction was to say don't stop I want to see what turns you on. That was a great reaction.  However the truth, when she learned it. hurt her deeply. Earlier in the film, she boasted about the one not being the jealous type.  

Sometimes I wonder if a spouse needs to know everything.  The film could have progressed with the same resolution and the wife could have been spared that unnecessary pain.

Indeed, though it was not raised in the film.  Would she want to adopt the child? She'd have good reason to balk at the idea.

@Cynique, I think most kids actually do have more than one adult in the home.  They just don't happen to be the biological father.  I don't have data, indeed I don't think anyone has good data on actual cohabitation rates, as people are not likely to reveal this information (as in the case of convicted felon living in the Projects, when they are not allowed to), or how fleeting the arrangements are. 

Are there any recent changes in our culture that you believe that have been detrimental to the family? For example, many people believe that a woman only can't raise a man (that includes two lesbians). However, there are others that say there is no difference, though these are usually women ;) who believe this one.

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55 minutes ago, Troy said:

It is one thing to boast about being married for 50 years and quite another to explain why it was not perfect but that you still derived joy from it. You are not telling others how they can do it too, but you are helping them to see that their less than picture perfect marriage is perfectly normal because they can see themselves in your stories. Does that make sense?

@Troy Absolutely this makes sense.  I never understood those "relationships books" that tell people what to do... but books that offer insight are awesome. This is why I enjoy @Cynique writing. She's never preachy - but instead touches you in that place that says "look at this"..."Oracle" (Matrix), comes to mind.

 

55 minutes ago, Troy said:

Remeber the scene where the guy was masturbating to his ex-girlfriend's photos and perfume and his wife's reaction when she busted him?  Her reaction was to say don't stop I want to see what turns you on. That was a great reaction.  However the truth, when she learned it. hurt her deeply. Earlier in the film, she boasted about the one not being the jealous type.  

Sometimes I wonder if a spouse needs to know everything.  The film could have progressed with the same resolution and the wife could have been spared that unnecessary pain.

Indeed, though it was not raised in the film.  Would she want to adopt the child? She'd have good reason to balk at the idea.

How insightful of you to touch on one of the scenes that struck me so deeply...

It was a beautiful scene to me because she was forced to confront her truth. She was jealous.  Her truth would have remained submerged (her shadow-self ) if her husband didn't "treat his body like an amusement park." (Seinfeld reference)  - When we don't reveal our truth - our partner may have expectations of us that aren't valid.

Such as how  her jealously would prevent her from adopting the "baby girl".

I believe intimate relationships when done honestly are actually selfish because they teach us so much about ourselves.  It's how we truly learn to love ourselves and subsequently evolve to a higher consciousness.

By the way, I would put a "like" on your comment but I reached my maximum of 25 likes for the day:D

1 hour ago, Troy said:

Ahh the wisdom of age and hindsight

Oh by the way, after I wrote that about "Mr. Alright"  I searched for him online.  I found him on facebook ...

I made the right choice. :lol:

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Man, if homeboy does not come across well on Facebook, thats definitely not a good sign.  It only goes down from there...

I swore the religious due in the hotel was gonna accuse the man of pedophilia after seeing him walk her to his bedroom.  Why introduce that character at all?

Your reaction to my comment is more than adequate Mel and speaks for itself. I did not know there was a limit on likes, I can probably change that setting.  Pioneer loves what I write, but he does not "like" anyone's posts.  Sometimes I don't like something that I actually do like--I don't want to go around liking everything.

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36 minutes ago, Troy said:

 Sometimes I don't like something that I actually do like--I don't want to go around liking everything.

Would you believe "liking" something is also for reference. Some social networking sites with news allow you to bookmark for reference. In its absence, if I like and want to refer back I will put a "like" on it".    According to the people who study us (Pew Research in this case), black people do it more than any other culture/ethnicity.  I guess we  like to follow up on what we read.  Isn't that something?

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@Mel Hopkins, would you believe when the notification that you left this reply I was reprinting articles from Pew (which I thing you referenced).  I'm considering incorporating information from these reports into a new lecture for the course I'm teaching this semester.

http://www.journalism.org/2016/07/07/pathways-to-news/

http://www.journalism.org/2016/05/26/news-use-across-social-media-platforms-2016/

Of course, I'll be reading the report you've just referenced.  Is that synchronicity or coincidence?

Mel the only place I like anything not is on indie websites.  This site, your blog and the like.

At this stage, I give social media as little information as possible. Who knows my beliefs may weaken my web presence as social platform continue to increase their domination. 

Do social media sites now allow you to more easily revisit content that you previously liked?  I don't recall that.  I just assumed they used the information to more effective get you to buy things.

It is depressing to read in the article Mel linked to;

“…blacks got online news through social media 41% of the time, on average, and whites did so 33% of the time. While this is not statistically different by traditional standards, the higher percentage among black online news consumers is in line with previous research showing that blacks get news from social media at a higher rate than whites.”

 

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59 minutes ago, Troy said:

Do social media sites now allow you to more easily revisit content that you previously liked?  I don't recall that.  I just assumed they used the information to more effective get you to buy things.

@Troy, I like/bookmark on Quora, "like" on Twitter ;  "like" here (aalbc)... and the rest of my likes are on wordpress blogs and disqus - all these sites allow me to return to my likes (well I haven't figured it out on quora yet - but I can return to my bookmarks on there. 

I don't get current events -news from these sites (well, I do get breaking news from twitter)  but I do get information to add to my research...

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I think the biggest challenge to traditional marriage among AfroAmericans is the plain and simple fact that most Black women don't respect Black men enough to be "traditional" wives to them.

The reasons for this are many.
....some justified and others unjustified.

But there's a LEARNED disrespect that a lot of Black women have towards Black men.
Much of it is taught by THEIR mothers.
Much of it is taught by other women.
Much of it is taught by the U.S. media which both overtly and subliminally demonizes and minimalizes Black males.
And much of it.....quite frankly....comes from LIFE EXPERIENCES many Black women have had dealing with Black males.

I believe many Black women subconsciously feel "unprotected" and vunerable in this society.  They feel that they aren't being protected or provided for (key factors that most women look for in men) like White women and they have a resentment towards Black men for this.

But the bottom line is until Black women AS A WHOLE (because although millions still do I still believe they are in the minority) begin to gain a healthy respect for Black men again,  the relationships whether they are marriage, common-law or just dating will continue to be dysfunctional and pocked with friction.

And the only way Black men are going to GET that respect is to earn it through changing the way we behave and the way we think that allows us to secure enough wealth and powers in this society AND USE THAT WEALTH AND POWER TO TAKE CARE OF BLACK WOMEN (as opposed to using it for other reckless purposes).


Troy

I hear you @Pioneer I have never seen Umar speak in person. I actually I have never been able to get through any of his videos. Can you direct me to a video that you like I'll listen to him with fresh ears. I seem to remember him being really hard on homosexuals.

His stance on homosexuality has been one of the reasons that despite how much I praise his work, it makes me have to take a step back from him.
Maybe 5 years ago I would be right on stage with him backing him up 100%, but over time my beliefs about the nature of homosexuality has changed so much that I doubt we'd see eye to eye on the issue.

I believe I said on another thread that I judge people by how much of their good out weighs their bad.....or much their assets outweigh their liabilities.
There so few intelligent, charismatic, professional Black males who are willing to stand up and be unapologetically pro-Black and especially pro-Black masculinity that I can't let 2 or 3 disagreements stop me from supporting my brother.

As far as getting through his lectures....lol...the brother IS long winded.
There are so many videos of him speaking that are powerful where do I start......

I think these 2 interviews are good primer introductions to his beliefs and objectives:

 

 

 

 

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Conversely, Black men do not earn the respect of Black women for women to behave in a traditional manner.  They also realize that we are essentially powerless to protect them.  This is saying the same thing you said but from a different perspective. 

When you say "traditional" do you mean where the man is the head of the household?  Forget about that man; those days are gone, perhaps irretrievably so.  Those traditional roles, especially in the Black community are essentially nonexistent with the exception of very Christain households when tend to be more socially conservative.

I'll check out the Umar videos.

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I listened to the first video (I'm coming to like the Breakfast club interviews as I listen to more of them) and many of Umar's statements reminded me of stuff I've been saying on these forums over the years.  

"You're dealing with a new Negro who has no obligation to the collective, no interest in the progress of his people, and is intentionally egotistical and individualist about his pursuits."

That was one of the first and hardest lessons I learned as an entrepreneur whose mission is to serve Black people. 

Umar has an enthusiasm and intensity that I sure would engage people.   When speaker begin to raise their voices that is a signal to me to listen more critically and try to not be emotionally influenced by an impassioned delivery.  

He also said Barack Obama did nothing for Black folks and that Black people did not hold him accountable. That is a bold statement, but I would not be inclined to argue with it because of Black people (save Cornel West and a few others), were never critical of Obama.  Any benefit Black folks received were part of programs designed to benefit mostly white folks (like "Obamacare") nothing I'm aware of was designed to target Black folks specifically and our collective conditions have worsened over the last 8 years... and God help us over the next 4 to 8. 

@Pioneer1 , when you described Umar as one of "the greatest Black leaders in America today." I did not agree, but if I were to think about Black leadership today, I can see why you would make the statement.  The bar is relatively low today isn't it?  No Malcolm X, no Dr. King, no Kwame Toure, no Huey Newton.

I would did not consider Umar a "great" leader because they ideally organizations and definitely followers.  Does Umar have followers that he can rally the way that an Al Sharpton can with his National Action Network, or Louis Farrakhan wth his NOI can or even Jessie Jackson?  

While I might disagree with his current level of greatness, he definitely has potential, but men with his ideology are generally not allowed to obtain great influence among Black people--any and all you come close are assassinated.  No Black leader has been assassinated in a long time... there has been no need.

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Troy

Conversely, Black men do not earn the respect of Black women for women to behave in a traditional manner. They also realize that we are essentially powerless to protect them. This is saying the same thing you said but from a different perspective.

Perhaps that explains the huge jump I've been seeing lately of White male Black female relationships.
Maybe many sisters have finally decided to just give up on the brothers and throw their lot in with White men who they feel can protect and provide for them.

I used to argue it and stopped.

Money talks....bullshit walks.

I found out as a young man that most women didn't give a damn how that dope dealer got his money, she just knows he was buying her what she wanted and showing her a good time.

I can argue with a Black woman all day long about White men this and White men that but at the end of the day if he has the money and power to protect her and provide for her and  all I have to offer her is a hard dick and excuses......from a scientific biological point of view she's justified in getting with the man who can take care of her.

 

When you say "traditional" do you mean where the man is the head of the household? Forget about that man; those days are gone, perhaps irretrievably so. Those traditional roles, especially in the Black community are essentially nonexistent with the exception of very Christain households when tend to be more socially conservative.

Yes, that's what I meant by traditional....however that is NOT what I personally advocate.

I was just explaining why the "traditional" marriages have such a high failure rate in Black America and that's just one reason, but I personally don't think that that patriarchal standard should be pushed or forced on our community.
I believe in a more liberal approach of people finding what works for THEM.

Sometimes the woman SHOULD be in charge.
Some women have a strong dominating personality, and they go good with weak ass men...lol.  They're happy together because the woman makes all the decisions and the weak man doesn't have to "man up" and can lay back and play the passive role that fits his personality.

Others like the more traditonal "man is in charge" type of relationship.

But I still think the group relationships are the most healthy and will be the most beneficial in the future. It will prove to be the most stable type of family structure is a liberated society.

 

many of Umar's statements reminded me of stuff I've been saying on these forums over the years.

Most intelligent Black men have seen and are saying the same things in this society. All it takes is someone who actually has a brain and can THINK and comprehend to realize what's happening in the community.
But not everyone can ARTICULATE the problems in a way that those who are not as perceptive can grasp....and that's one of the things he seems to be able to do.




when you described Umar as one of "the greatest Black leaders in America today." I did not agree, but if I were to think about Black leadership today, I can see why you would make the statement. The bar is relatively low today isn't it? No Malcolm X, no Dr. King, no Kwame Toure, no Huey Newton.

Exactly!
That's why I was careful to say TODAY.
Yeah we had more effective Black leaders in the past, but if you compare him to what we have today....besides Minister Farrakhan....I don't know who else is as articulate and effective in stirring up the Black community.

But you're right, one of the traits of a TRULY great leader his his followers.
If you have no followers or no people visibly on your team, how great of a "leader" can you really be.  You can make speeches and rile people up all day long, but at the end of the day if they aren't lining up behind you following orders or carrying out your instructions like a M.L. King or even better a Marcus Garvey.....what good is it?

No, I haven't seen any "followers" of his in the few times that I've met him so far.  He gets a lot of love when he comes to the Detroit area and hundreds come out to hear him and he has connections tha accomodate him....but as far as a hard core group of people that surround him...I haven't seen it.

I think one of the problems is he isn't preaching RELIGION.
Most of our people tend to be religious minded and if you want to gain thier dedication and following you often have to come at them with a religion and make them think God wants them to follow you.
That's one of the reasons the Nation of Islam was/is so successful with Black people, the Jehovah's Witnesses too.

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No, it's Earl Graves Sr...founder of Black Enterprise magazine.

Not exactly sure why I chose his picture as an avatar; I guess because it looks rather dignified and intellectual...lol.

Why?
Do you like the picture and think he's a good looking  brother...lol.

Were you going to stop disagreeing with me so much if you thought THAT'S how I looked?

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Cynique I like seeing your face it is a nice shot.  I wonder if people would perceive what you write differently seeing what they look like. Would they react differently?  I wonder if Sara, for example, would have still been as rude?  I wonder which is better, the avatar or an actual photo?

I'm surprised you did not recognize Earl Graves. That is an old photo; Graves is in his 80's now.

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I'm not the best looking man in the world so trust me when I say you're not missing too much by me not showing my picture....lol.  But more so than that, I like a certain amount of privacy and anonimity....that's one of the benefits of the internet.

Ofcourse the government and spy agencies already know who you are, the biggest problems come from other regular people you interact with who you may fall out with over something silly and now they know all about you.

That's why I don't waste time on facebook and other forms of social media outside of what is absolutely necessary for business or networking.
How many people have been killed over conflicts that started on facebook or Instagram and spilled over into the real world?

Although I for the most part keep my associates in the cyber world seperate from my associates in the real world, they do cross over from time to time.
I remember a sister I met on a messageboard from Canada who was so compelling that we ended up sharing our information and MEETING eachother and she was even more wonderful in real life than online.

Infact, I have to admit that I DO expect to eventually meet Troy one of these days and most likely at some political or social event....lol.


It may sound kind of shallow to admit, but it often DOES make a difference in how you respond to people when you know how they look.
I've met a few people I kicked it with for months or years THINKING they looked a particular type of way and thought I had it nailed down...only to see someone completely different  when they posted their picture.
And it completely changed the way I talked to them from then on.

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i don't disagree with you anymore than i do any one else, do i, Pioneer?  You don't want "likes" so when i agree with you, i don't give you one.   

The picture of Earl Graves did look familiar to me, but i wasn't sure who  it was. i was even wondering if Pioneer was some well known person who'd adopted a screen name.( I don't get using a famous person as your profile picture, rather than just an avatar.)

An actual profile picture of me was used during a portion of my feud with sara during which time i retired from the board, Troy. Then i resurfaced and came back with the eye icon.  So she knew what i looked like but it didn't make any difference. To her i was always a snuff dippin old lady who wore men's shoes.  :o

i can understand people wanting their anonymity but i don't care if anymore sees me, or whether it will influence what i say.  i always use being old and crazy as an excuse for my outrageousness.

I think the manner in which people present themselves influences me, more than their physical appearance.  if they use hair and garb and other embellishments to make a statement, then i take them with a grain of salt.  

I have a tattoo on my wrist which i got at age 74, and this always invokes curiosity and even disapproval by some people.  i've never had  anyone of the medical profession who has to take blood pressure, pulse or blood from me who didn't remark about this tattoo. The last time i took a drivers test, the tester was so fascinated that he passed me, although he probably shouldn't have because i was too old to be driving.  :lol:  Cashiers at check-out lines always notice this tattoo and if they're young and male, they think it's cool.   What statement am i making by having a tattoo? That i want to carry the flower-crested names of my husband and grandson around with me since they are no longer with us.  Getting my nose pierced is on my bucket list, and time is running out.  We'll see. i want a diamond nose stud - just because...B)

 

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Cynique

Who said I didn't want "likes"?

I LOVE when posters give me "likes" !

I just don't GIVE them to other posters that much....lol.

Not sure why.

.....laziness?
.....inconsiderate?


I don't really know why I don't.....I just don't.

I suppose like either Mel or Troy mentioned on another thread if you agree with something you usually don't say anything, it's when you DISAGREE that you tend to be animated and voice your opionion.


Or perhaps my "likes" are like currency, the less it's used the more valuable it is.

It just so happens that I AGREE with the vast majority of what most of the posters on here have to say so if I went around "liking" every post I agreed with.....pretty soon I recon my "likes" would lose their value and become meaningless.

At any rate, you can "like" my posts all you want.
Just don't expect me to "like" yours in return....lol.
Not because I don't agree, but....I don't know.....just because.

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