Pioneer1 Posted May 27 Author Report Posted May 27 frankster I brought it up because it is relevant You can present all the articles you like trying to shoe-horn your out-dated and erroneous religious beliefs into logic and contemporary science- .....but they won't fit. We know that evil thoughts, murder, theft, and adultery do NOT come from the heart. The heart is an organ used to circulate blood around the body. Not for thinking up evil thoughts. The needle used to administer the anesthesia...will cause pain And??? That pain is usually TOLERATED by the patient who knows that something GOOD is coming on the other side of it. Whether they agree or not does not stop the harm and the pain that will ensue Pain and even harm itself is NOT what determines intolerance. The decision to and immediate effect is what makes it intolerant Not sure what you mean by "the decision to" but the immediate effect of an act does NOT necessarily make it intolerant. Perhaps if they die because of it; that means their body couldn't tolerate it. Other than that..... ProfD The heart is a muscle with the sole purpose of pumping blood throughout our bodies. Right? I thought MOST people over 10 years old knew this already and it didn't have to be explained...lol. Thanks for posting BTW.... As much as I like debating and educating, it feels good to know that others are watching and keeping up with the discussion also.
frankster Posted May 28 Report Posted May 28 9 hours ago, ProfD said: The heart is a muscle with the sole purpose of pumping blood throughout our bodies. The brain made up of 60% fat is the super-computer running the whole show. When the heart shuts down, the brain is still processing for a few minutes. OK. I'll sit back and continue to enjoy the tennis match. Carry on fellas. Did you see the link I provided.....which says it has a role in memory and personality? Thats not just me saying it....thats a scientific study .
Pioneer1 Posted May 28 Author Report Posted May 28 14 minutes ago, frankster said: Did you see the link I provided.....which says it has a role in memory and personality? Thats not just me saying it....thats a scientific study . Did the link you provided state that evil thoughts, murder, adultery, and theft come from the heart? If not....what are we discussing here????
frankster Posted May 28 Report Posted May 28 43 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said: frankster I brought it up because it is relevant You can present all the articles you like trying to shoe-horn your out-dated and erroneous religious beliefs into logic and contemporary science- .....but they won't fit. We know that evil thoughts, murder, theft, and adultery do NOT come from the heart. The heart is an organ used to circulate blood around the body. Not for thinking up evil thoughts. Science seems to disagree and is aligning with ancient knowledge.... Did you read the link I provided? 43 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said: The needle used to administer the anesthesia...will cause pain And??? That pain is usually TOLERATED by the patient who knows that something GOOD is coming on the other side of it. You are causing pain damage and harm....thats intolerable. 43 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said: Whether they agree or not does not stop the harm and the pain that will ensue Pain and even harm itself is NOT what determines intolerance. 43 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said: Then what does? 43 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said: The decision to and immediate effect is what makes it intolerant Not sure what you mean by "the decision to" but the immediate effect of an act does NOT necessarily make it intolerant. Perhaps if they die because of it; that means their body couldn't tolerate it. Other than that..... So are you now saying..... tolerance has limits 43 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said: ProfD The heart is a muscle with the sole purpose of pumping blood throughout our bodies. Right? I thought MOST people over 10 years old knew this already and it didn't have to be explained...lol. Thanks for posting BTW.... As much as I like debating and educating, it feels good to know that others are watching and keeping up with the discussion also. You both late....the heart is now known to have a rolein both memory and personality You both being schooled today. 2 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said: Did the link you provided state that evil thoughts, murder, adultery, and theft come from the heart? If not....what are we discussing here???? it does not have to ...it states that it has a role in personality and memory. Personality dictates who you arr and what you think and do
ProfD Posted May 28 Report Posted May 28 39 minutes ago, frankster said: Did you see the link I provided.....which says it has a role in memory and personality? Thats not just me saying it....thats a scientific study . Yep. I read the linked scientific study. Just like a Masters thesis or PhD dissertation...the study was merely an exercise in musing that the heart could have a mini-brain and/or transfer feelings and emotions toba recipient. It doesn't. The heart is just a muscle. No more or less.
frankster Posted May 28 Report Posted May 28 6 minutes ago, ProfD said: Yep. I read the linked scientific study. Just like a Masters thesis or PhD dissertation...the study was merely an exercise in musing that the heart could have a mini-brain and/or transfer feelings and emotions toba recipient. It doesn't. The heart is just a muscle. No more or less. So are you saying the study is wrong and misleading?
ProfD Posted May 28 Report Posted May 28 Just now, frankster said: So are you saying the study is wrong and misleading? The study is neither right or wrong or misleading. It is basically a collective opinion of the authors. Nothing provable via scientific method. When the definition of a heart changes from muscle to mini-brain...it will be front page news. Every textbook will have to be rewritten too. 1
frankster Posted May 28 Report Posted May 28 1 minute ago, ProfD said: The study is neither right or wrong or misleading. It is basically a collective opinion of the authors. Nothing provable via scientific method. When the definition of a heart changes from muscle to mini-brain...it will be front page news. Every textbook will have to be rewritten too. Forgive me for the following....time The idea of heart having a brain is not new ....in the seventies I first read about it and never came back till the 90's when they found a brain in the stomach(gut) then Candace Pert did a full break down of the whole thing in a book finally Russell Targ and David Bohm got a big grant to study it and where on the cutting edge then all went silent when I have time i will link some scientific papers......HeartMath institute also got grants for this study.
ProfD Posted May 28 Report Posted May 28 22 minutes ago, frankster said: The idea of heart having a brain is not new ....got a big grant to study it and where on the cutting edge then all went silent ......HeartMath institute also got grants for this study. The operative word is study. One after another. No definitive facts. Just looking at the same thing from another angle...maybe.
Troy Posted May 28 Report Posted May 28 14 hours ago, ProfD said: The heart is a muscle with the sole purpose of pumping blood throughout our bodies. You should read the NIH study, you may feel differently about that belief. Never mind I’m just now reading the replies on another page and I see that you read the study. It’s hard for me to believe that after reading the study, you would be so certain about the function of the heart. It wasn’t merely the musings of people they were reacting to the fact that traits and memories moved from a heart donor to the heart recipient. I guess, after a certain age people beliefs become fixed. You can’t teach an old dog new tricks.
ProfD Posted May 28 Report Posted May 28 1 hour ago, Troy said: It’s hard for me to believe that after reading the study, you would be so certain about the function of the heart. It's hard for me to believe that after reading one study anyone would change their mind about heart function. 1 hour ago, Troy said: It wasn’t merely the musings of people they were reacting to the fact that traits and memories moved from a heart donor to the heart recipient. I'd like to see the evidence of how they know for a fact that traits and memories move from one person to another. it's easy for people to believe anything written. Case in point is the bible. 1 hour ago, Troy said: I guess, after a certain age people beliefs become fixed. You can’t teach an old dog new tricks. Maybe so. There is a point in life where old dogs stop chasing cars.
Troy Posted May 28 Report Posted May 28 So you are equating a scientific study with the Bible? The study is presenting information and sure new information will expand upon those ideas or perhaps ultimately reject them, but at least for me the new affirmation certainly casts strong found out that the heart only pumps blood. The Bible on the other hand is a document who’s adherence accept on Faith. The only debate is differences and interpretation.
ProfD Posted May 28 Report Posted May 28 1 hour ago, Troy said: So you are equating a scientific study with the Bible? To the extent that both are written by humans. Anything man writes without verifiable facts is subject to interpretation. There's no shortage of studies that don't prove or solve anything. Just words on a paper. Like a thesis or dissertation. 1 hour ago, Troy said: The study is presenting information and sure new information will expand upon those ideas or perhaps ultimately reject them, but at least for me the new affirmation certainly casts strong found out that the heart only pumps blood. I'm 100% certain that this study won't move the needle in terms of our understanding as it relates to heart function. Let me know when textbooks are rewritten to include this heart as a mini-brain. 1 hour ago, Troy said: The Bible on the other hand is a document who’s adherence accept on Faith. The only debate is differences and interpretation. An old book of fairy tales written by scholars that people choose to believe is a manifesto for how humans should live as inspired by the Supreme Being. Books and studies are great reading material. Better time sink than less constructive behaviors. Sometimes reading can inspire people to make more money or improve their own lives or treat each other better. Hopefully the heart study will yield tangible significance in one way or another. 1
Troy Posted May 28 Report Posted May 28 37 minutes ago, ProfD said: Anything man writes without verifiable facts is subject to interpretation. By that standard there is very little that is not subject to interpretation. This is why we have to have debates over the fact that race is a social construct with nor basis in science, whether the earth is flat or whether vaccines are bad for people. 43 minutes ago, ProfD said: I'm 100% certain that this study won't move the needle in terms of our understanding as it relates to heart function. That statement is obviously refuted by the study you've ready but rejected. Do you think writing it was a waste of time? 46 minutes ago, ProfD said: Hopefully the heart study will yield tangible significance in one way or another. The advancement of knowledge and understanding of our bodies is always a good thing -- even if people uneducated or trained in science, medicine, or neurobiology rejects it's value as a "collection of opinions" on it from the peanut gallery
ProfD Posted May 28 Report Posted May 28 1 hour ago, Troy said: By that standard there is very little that is not subject to interpretation. This is why we have to have debates over the fact that race is a social construct with nor basis in science, whether the earth is flat or whether vaccines are bad for people. Correct. 1 hour ago, Troy said: That statement is obviously refuted by the study you've ready but rejected. Do you think writing it was a waste of time? Not a complete waste of time. It gives people something to do. 1 hour ago, Troy said: The advancement of knowledge and understanding of our bodies is always a good thing -- even if people uneducated or trained in science, medicine, or neurobiology rejects it's value as a "collection of opinions" on it from the peanut gallery Right. We're all entitled to our opinions even from the peanut gallery.
Troy Posted May 28 Report Posted May 28 Sure, @ProfD we're entitled to our own opinions, but some opinions are worth for more than others on any given subject. For example, surely, you'd agree that your opinion on the function of the heart is far less valuable than a Pd.D. who has studied the organ for a couple of decades. Do you agree? Why or why not?
ProfD Posted May 28 Report Posted May 28 1 hour ago, Troy said: For example, surely, you'd agree that your opinion on the function of the heart is far less valuable than a Pd.D. who has studied the organ for a couple of decades. Do you agree? Why or why not? My opinion or belief in heart function is commonly shared by the medical establishment over a couple hundred years. A PhD studying heart function doesn't know too much more than the doctors who preceded them. In fact, many highly educated folks have been *wrong* about all kinds of stuff. That's why we don't know how the steel was distributed down the Twin Towers. Otherwise, due to the nature of how we credentialize folks, I would not expect anyone to value my opinion over a PhD in heart study.
frankster Posted May 28 Report Posted May 28 17 hours ago, ProfD said: The study is neither right or wrong or misleading. It is basically a collective opinion of the authors. Nothing provable via scientific method. These are Scientists publishing their work in a Scientific Publication....Adding their names to it and Accreditations. This is how the process of scientific review and research is done 17 hours ago, ProfD said: When the definition of a heart changes from muscle to mini-brain...it will be front page news. Every textbook will have to be rewritten too. The definition of the heart will not change....just adjusted to say it has and acts like a mini brain or some other scientific sounding synonym - Mini brain just is too simple and pedestrian.
ProfD Posted May 28 Report Posted May 28 18 minutes ago, frankster said: These are Scientists publishing their work in a Scientific Publication....Adding their names to it and Accreditations. This is how the process of scientific review and research is done Right. Nothing has changed otherwise. 18 minutes ago, frankster said: The definition of the heart will not change....just adjusted to say it has and acts like a mini brain or some other scientific sounding synonym - Mini brain just is too simple and pedestrian. I look forward to hearing that what we know about the heart has been updated based on this study.
Troy Posted May 28 Report Posted May 28 2 hours ago, ProfD said: My opinion or belief in heart function is commonly shared by the medical establishment over a couple hundred years. Dude, our knowledge about the heart human body has advanced by light years in last 50 years let alone hundreds. The first heart transplant took place in our lifetime. Indeed, this is how the notion of information being stored in the heart was even realized. 3 hours ago, ProfD said: In fact, many highly educated folks have been *wrong* about all kinds of stuff. This is both dodging the question and being intellectually dishonest. If you needed to have bypass surgery (God forbid), would you want me to do it or a trained heart surgeon? Credentials matter Bruh.
ProfD Posted May 28 Report Posted May 28 49 minutes ago, Troy said: Dude, our knowledge about the heart human body has advanced by light years in last 50 years let alone hundreds. The first heart transplant took place in our lifetime. Indeed, this is how the notion of information being stored in the heart was even realized. Surely, modern medicine has advanced to the point where a Black man was able to perform the 1st open heart surgery. The basic function of the heart remains unchanged. 49 minutes ago, Troy said: This is both dodging the question and being intellectually dishonest. If you needed to have bypass surgery (God forbid), would you want me to do it or a trained heart surgeon? Credentials matter Bruh. IMO, I neither dodged the question nor was I being intellectually dishonest. I was referring to someone doing a study. A PhD isn't the same as an MD. You've added heart surgeon to the dialog. Apples and oranges mayne.
frankster Posted May 29 Report Posted May 29 4 hours ago, ProfD said: Right. Nothing has changed otherwise. Wrong..... A lot has changed and is changing..... The heart is no longer consider just a pump by many scientists in the fields of Organ Transplantation and Neuroscience....That is new 4 hours ago, ProfD said: I look forward to hearing that what we know about the heart has been updated based on this study. This is the process of "updating"....the change is happening now.
Pioneer1 Posted May 29 Author Report Posted May 29 frankster Science seems to disagree and is aligning with ancient knowledge.... Did you read the link I provided? Did the "link you provided" state that murder, adultery, and evil thoughts come from the heart? If not, why would I read something that's irrelevant to the discussion? I read material all day long, I don't need more shit to just sit up and read for the sake of reading. If it's not relevant to what I'm focusing on....why? You are causing pain damage and harm....thats intolerable. Plenty of people tolerate pain, damage and harm. Do you break down and cry or go crazy when you cut yourself or have a tooth ache? So are you now saying..... tolerance has limits I don't have to say it...it's clearly understood. That was never an issue. The issue is you seem to not understand when tolerance ends and violence begins. You both being schooled today. The heart is a muscle. Who on here hasn't heard of "muscle memory"???? it does not have to .. Yes it DOES, in order for it to be proof of YOUR assertion that it backs up ancient teachings. If ancient teachings claim that evil thoughts, theft, murder, and adultery comes from the hearts of men....then your article needs to plainly and clearly state that. The idea of heart having a brain is not new . The stomach and digestive system itself is said to be the "second brain" in human beings. Why didn't the "ancient teachings" speak on that? Infact, ALL the cells in the body have a certain amount of "consciousness" to them...not just the cells of the heart. The heart is the organ of circulation...plain and simple. You want to take it and MAKE it something other than what it is to MAKE it fit into your scriptural/religious beliefs.
ProfD Posted May 29 Report Posted May 29 30 minutes ago, frankster said: Wrong..... A lot has changed and is changing..... The heart is no longer consider just a pump by many scientists in the fields of Organ Transplantation and Neuroscience....That is new This is the process of "updating"....the change is happening now. Cool. I look forward to the books being updated to include the heart is a mini-brain with emotions and memories. People claim to be heart-broken when a relationship goes sour. Miraculously, that same heart seems to repair itself as soon they start bumping uglies with someone else. I cannot speak for anyone else but I know for a fact that my heart doesn't have any emotions. H8ll, my brain hardly has any either.
Troy Posted May 29 Report Posted May 29 6 hours ago, ProfD said: PhD isn't the same as an MD Really? What makes it different? Besides why play games with semantics. You questioned the credibility of credentials. This is the kind of game @Pioneer1 plays. Just admit that you know much less than a PhD (or an MD) when it comes to the heart.
ProfD Posted May 29 Report Posted May 29 52 minutes ago, Troy said: Really? What makes it different? Besides why play games with semantics. You questioned the credibility of credentials. No semantics. There's a huge difference between a PhD and a MD. Credentials can be bought. 52 minutes ago, Troy said: This is the kind of game @Pioneer1 plays. Just admit that you know much less than a PhD (or an MD) when it comes to the heart. I have no reason to play games. You're certainly entitled to your opinion and assumption too. Bottom line is that I don't believe everything I see, hear or read regardless of who wrote it. I'm entitled to that as well.
frankster Posted May 29 Report Posted May 29 10 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: frankster Science seems to disagree and is aligning with ancient knowledge.... Did you read the link I provided? Did the "link you provided" state that murder, adultery, and evil thoughts come from the heart? If not, why would I read something that's irrelevant to the discussion? As a matter of fact the article did..... The part I quoted mention memory and personality...both personality and memory has to do with Thoughts.. Personality speaks to the character of the individual ....whether they be good or bad Memories are composed of Thoughts and Images Some heart transplant recipients report experiencing memories that seemingly belong to their donors. These memories manifest as sensory perceptions, occurring during both wakefulness and sleep. For instance, one recipient describes sudden unusual tastes accompanied by thoughts about their donor's identity and life experiences https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11061817/ 10 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: I read material all day long, I don't need more shit to just sit up and read for the sake of reading. If it's not relevant to what I'm focusing on....why? What you feel you are experienencing Information overload? or Your world view being challenge is overwhelming? 10 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: You are causing pain damage and harm....thats intolerable. Plenty of people tolerate pain, damage and harm. Do you break down and cry or go crazy when you cut yourself or have a tooth ache? Inflicting or causing pain on yourself or another is intolerable. 10 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: So are you now saying..... tolerance has limits I don't have to say it...it's clearly understood. That was never an issue. The issue is you seem to not understand when tolerance ends and violence begins. Thank you.... 10 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: You both being schooled today. The heart is a muscle. Who on here hasn't heard of "muscle memory"???? Thank you But the heart is more than a muscle or muscle memory.... Muscle memory is memory or movement procedure with little or no conscious thought... The Thought and Memory of the heart However are both Conscious and Unconscious. 10 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: it does not have to .. Yes it DOES, in order for it to be proof of YOUR assertion that it backs up ancient teachings. If ancient teachings claim that evil thoughts, theft, murder, and adultery comes from the hearts of men....then your article needs to plainly and clearly state that. It clearly states Personality and Memory.... Look up Personality and Memory? Post your text and link 10 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: The idea of heart having a brain is not new . The stomach and digestive system itself is said to be the "second brain" in human beings. Why didn't the "ancient teachings" speak on that? Because the heartt was more important. The scripture I post said in part... I am Paraphrasing here: What goes into someone’s mouth(stomach) does not defile them, but what comes out of their mouth(heart), that is what defiles them 10 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Infact, ALL the cells in the body have a certain amount of "consciousness" to them...not just the cells of the heart. Yes.... Cellular Memory 10 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: The heart is the organ of circulation...plain and simple. No....it is not It is also apart of endocrine system.... 10 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: You want to take it and MAKE it something other than what it is to MAKE it fit into your scriptural/religious beliefs. Science is doing that.....not me.
Pioneer1 Posted May 29 Author Report Posted May 29 Troy This is the kind of game @Pioneer1 plays. Just admit that you know much less than a PhD (or an MD) when it comes to the heart. What games have I played? Since I play them so much...according to you...give me 2 examples of them. frankster As a matter of fact the article did..... The part I quoted mention memory and personality...both personality and memory has to do with Thoughts.. Personality speaks to the character of the individual ....whether they be good or bad Memories are composed of Thoughts and Images As a matter of fact, it did NOT. You want to sit up there and equate muscle memory and cellular consciousness with that crap you read in some book about adultery and murder rising out of a person's heart when you KNOW it's not true. You're stretching and reaching more than Richard Simmons What you feel you are experienencing Information overload? No, because I'm not going to take ON the load. I asked for specific examples that prove your point and I'm not going to read any article you present that does NOT provide them. Your world view being challenge is overwhelming? No, but wasting my time is a bit frustrating. Inflicting or causing pain on yourself or another is intolerable. So when a woman has a baby, is that "intolerable"??? It clearly states Personality and Memory.... Look up Personality and Memory? Post your text and link Does it prove that evil thoughts, theft, murder, and adultery comes from the hearts of men??? If not, then I'm not wasting my time on it. The heart is the organ of circulation...plain and simple. No....it is not It is also apart of endocrine system.... What do you mean "no it's not"??? It absolutely IS an organ that circulates the blood around the body.
frankster Posted May 30 Report Posted May 30 6 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Troy This is the kind of game @Pioneer1 plays. Just admit that you know much less than a PhD (or an MD) when it comes to the heart. What games have I played? Since I play them so much...according to you...give me 2 examples of them. frankster As a matter of fact the article did..... The part I quoted mention memory and personality...both personality and memory has to do with Thoughts.. Personality speaks to the character of the individual ....whether they be good or bad Memories are composed of Thoughts and Images As a matter of fact, it did NOT. You want to sit up there and equate muscle memory and cellular consciousness with that crap you read in some book about adultery and murder rising out of a person's heart when you KNOW it's not true. I printed and highlighted the word thought for you in the article....I see you choose to ignore it 6 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: You're stretching and reaching more than Richard Simmons What you feel you are experienencing Information overload? No, because I'm not going to take ON the load. I asked for specific examples that prove your point and I'm not going to read any article you present that does NOT provide them. If you do not read....then I now know why you struggle with ignorance 6 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Your world view being challenge is overwhelming? No, but wasting my time is a bit frustrating. Yes...i can see why you would say that - you feeling frustrated 6 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: nflicting or causing pain on yourself or another is intolerable. So when a woman has a baby, is that "intolerable"??? Dude you already admitted that "that Tolerance has limits" we need go no further 6 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: It clearly states Personality and Memory.... Look up Personality and Memory? Post your text and link Does it prove that evil thoughts, theft, murder, and adultery comes from the hearts of men??? If not, then I'm not wasting my time on it. If you cannot see the relationship between Thoughts Personality and Behavior... I cannot do all the work for you....at some point you must use your own brain 6 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: The heart is the organ of circulation...plain and simple. No....it is not It is also apart of endocrine system.... What do you mean "no it's not"??? It absolutely IS an organ that circulates the blood around the body. You being schooled....if only you would allow yourself to learn Yes it is a part of the Circulatory system....I am not denying that - I agree but It is also a part of the endocrine system that is responsible for hormone production.... The Heart also produces Hormones Hormones affect Mood Feelings and Behavior.
Pioneer1 Posted June 1 Author Report Posted June 1 frankster I printed and highlighted the word thought for you in the article....I see you choose to ignore it You're talking about this quote: Quote For instance, one recipient describes sudden unusual tastes accompanied by thoughts about their donor's identity and life experiences I didn't ignore it, but I didn't address it because it was ambiguous. It said the recipient had thoughts ABOUT the donor's identity and life experiences...not thoughts OF/FROM the donor's identity and life experiences. The difference? It sounded more like the article was saying these thoughts were FROM THE RECIPIENT merely thinking about the identity and life experiences of their donor; more than saying that these were the actual thoughts OF THE DONOR that were transmuted to the recipient via the heart transplant. If you do not read....then I now know why you struggle with ignorance The only struggle I have with ignorance is struggling with YOU, lol. Yes...i can see why you would say that - you feeling frustrated As can be expected...struggling and debating with ignorance on two feet, lol. Dude you already admitted that "that Tolerance has limits" we need go no further Why are you framing it as an "admission"; as if it's something I denied???? Yes it is a part of the Circulatory system....I am not denying that - I agree Ok then........... but It is also a part of the endocrine system that is responsible for hormone production.... The Heart also produces Hormones Hormones affect Mood Feelings and Behavior. Here we go again with the reaches and the stretches...lol. Man, whether or not you eat BREAKFAST in the morning can also affect your mood and behavior. What does the "ancient teachings" say about that???? Yes tolerance DOES have it's limits...and you're pushing its boundaries in this discussion.
frankster Posted June 1 Report Posted June 1 3 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: frankster I printed and highlighted the word thought for you in the article....I see you choose to ignore it You're talking about this quote: I didn't ignore it, but I didn't address it because it was ambiguous. It said the recipient had thoughts ABOUT the donor's identity and life experiences...not thoughts OF/FROM the donor's identity and life experiences. There is no ambiguity if you read the entire post or article.. Yes....."sudden unusual tastes accompanied by thoughts" 3 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: The difference? It sounded more like the article was saying these thoughts were FROM THE RECIPIENT merely thinking about the identity and life experiences of their donor; more than saying that these were the actual thoughts OF THE DONOR that were transmuted to the recipient via the heart transplant. In a sense he is experiencing these memories as his own...reliving them so to speak Though the articles spells his out and the whole field of this research leaves no doubt.. Here is the quote "Some heart transplant recipients report experiencing memories that seemingly belong to their donors. These memories manifest as sensory perceptions, occurring during both wakefulness and sleep. For instance, one recipient describes sudden unusual tastes accompanied by thoughts about their donor's identity and life experiences" https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11061817/ 3 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: If you do not read....then I now know why you struggle with ignorance The only struggle I have with ignorance is struggling with YOU, lol. Yes....I know that is not true But I restrain myself.... For Some conversation are best left where they are....as they are not edifying or profitable They serve no purpose but to do damage hurt and harm....with no reward beyond selfish pleasure at the expense of another. Unless you choose to continue with this line of ad hominem/personal attacks...then its On 3 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Yes...i can see why you would say that - you feeling frustrated As can be expected...struggling and debating with ignorance on two feet, lol. See above.... 3 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Dude you already admitted that "that Tolerance has limits" we need go no further Why are you framing it as an "admission"; as if it's something I denied???? It is something you ignored... 3 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Yes it is a part of the Circulatory system....I am not denying that - I agree Ok then........... but It is also a part of the endocrine system that is responsible for hormone production.... The Heart also produces Hormones Hormones affect Mood Feelings and Behavior. Here we go again with the reaches and the stretches...lol. Man, whether or not you eat BREAKFAST in the morning can also affect your mood and behavior. What does the "ancient teachings" say about that???? Yes....so does the heart. Proverbs 27:7 3 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Yes tolerance DOES have it's limits...and you're pushing its boundaries in this discussion. Cool....
Pioneer1 Posted June 1 Author Report Posted June 1 frankster I'm not going to wrestle with you for 10 weeks over this article as some sort of "proof" that thinking comes from the heart. Let me know when you've found some scientific articles that confirm that wicked thoughts, adultery, theft, and murder come from the HEARTS of men as that scripture you produced claims. If this is true, I wonder are there any articles confirming that some people have become serial killers or adulterers as a result of heart transplants??? Unless you choose to continue with this line of ad hominem/personal attacks...then its On If you didn't want to subject yourself to personal attacks, you wouldn't have admitted to being a weed head...lol. It is something you ignored... I've also "ignored" the color background of the discussion board, doesn't mean I deny it or believe it's a different color than they greyish color that it is. I tend to focus on more important things. Proverbs 27:7 Quote The full soul loatheth an honeycomb; but to the hungry soul every bitter thing is sweet. Ok? What's your point in bringing up this scripture?
frankster Posted June 1 Report Posted June 1 On 5/27/2025 at 10:29 AM, ProfD said: The heart is a muscle with the sole purpose of pumping blood throughout our bodies. That is not the sole purpose of the heart... The Heart is also part of the Endocrine System...producing synthesizing and secreting hormones On 5/27/2025 at 10:29 AM, ProfD said: The brain made up of 60% fat is the super-computer running the whole show. According to the most recent studies....the heart communicates with the brain - more than the brain communicates with the heart Causing many scientist to question which organ is the Lead.. On 5/27/2025 at 10:29 AM, ProfD said: When the heart shuts down, the brain is still processing for a few minutes. True.... On 5/27/2025 at 10:29 AM, ProfD said: OK. I'll sit back and continue to enjoy the tennis match. Carry on fellas. please enjoy 2 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: frankster I'm not going to wrestle with you for 10 weeks over this article as some sort of "proof" that thinking comes from the heart. Thoughts flow from both the heart and mind/brain 2 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Let me know when you've found some scientific articles that confirm that wicked thoughts, adultery, theft, and murder come from the HEARTS of men as that scripture you produced claims. The Article already answer that question...a persons thoughts can be deduce and predicted from his personality see below Moreover, the heart's intricate neural network, often referred to as the "heart brain," communicates bidirectionally with the brain and other organs, supporting the concept of heart-brain connection and its role in memory and personality. These cases underscore the complexity of psychological and behavioral changes that may occur post-heart transplant, possibly influenced by the donor's characteristics and experiences [3,10]. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11061817/ 2 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: If this is true, I wonder are there any articles confirming that some people have become serial killers or adulterers as a result of heart transplants??? None that I know of... But there is a case where in the heart recipient was able to describe the killer of the donor... 2 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Unless you choose to continue with this line of ad hominem/personal attacks...then its On If you didn't want to subject yourself to personal attacks, you wouldn't have admitted to being a weed head...lol. Calling me a weed head is up to you....as I do smoke cannabis. but it does affect you negatively if I mention your struggles with ignorance and confusion that you admitted to ? 2 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: It is something you ignored... I've also "ignored" the color background of the discussion board, doesn't mean I deny it or believe it's a different color than they greyish color that it is. I tend to focus on more important things. When you ignore something....I cannot know that you saw it or took it into consideration. 2 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Proverbs 27:7 Ok? What's your point in bringing up this scripture? It is a response to what you posted... So look it up and reread what you posted.
Pioneer1 Posted June 1 Author Report Posted June 1 frankster Thoughts flow from both the heart and mind/brain Well, on a similar note.... How do we know the mind is located in the brain? Lol, why not associate the mind with the heart too since you want to associate thinking and emotions with it? None that I know of... But there is a case where in the heart recipient was able to describe the killer of the donor... Hmmm.... Interesting, if true. However it does NOT provide the proof of your assertion that I've repeatedly asked for. but it does affect you negatively if I mention your struggles with ignorance and confusion that you admitted to ? I don't understand the question. Perhaps you can rephrase it.
frankster Posted June 2 Report Posted June 2 4 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: frankster Thoughts flow from both the heart and mind/brain Well, on a similar note.... How do we know the mind is located in the brain? Lol, why not associate the mind with the heart too since you want to associate thinking and emotions with it? I do associate the heart with the mind...... 4 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: None that I know of... But there is a case where in the heart recipient was able to describe the killer of the donor... Hmmm.... Interesting, if true. However it does NOT provide the proof of your assertion that I've repeatedly asked for. If transplantation affects Personality and Behavior....it affects thoughts - be they good or evil.. I need provide no further proof... If you want proof ;look up all the meanings of Personality and behaviour.. 4 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: but it does affect you negatively if I mention your struggles with ignorance and confusion that you admitted to ? I don't understand the question. Perhaps you can rephrase it. No need....
Pioneer1 Posted June 2 Author Report Posted June 2 frankster If transplantation affects Personality and Behavior....it affects thoughts - be they good or evil.. I need provide no further proof... That study is evidence, not proof. It's not established science that thoughts and emotions actually come from the human heart and you know it. Although it's not proof of your assertion, I won't continue arguing against it because it would come too dangerously close to contradicting my own beliefs about the possibilities that different parts of the human body...especially the blood and DNA...contain a certain degree of consciousness, memory, personality, personal vibration, etc...OF that particular individual. In other words..... If the blood, the DNA, or each living cell contains some consciousness or essence of the person...that would INCLUDE the heart (as well as other organs) by default. No need.... You said: but it does affect you negatively if I mention your struggles with ignorance and confusion that you admitted to ? If you want a clear answer, you need to ask a clear question...lol.
ProfD Posted June 2 Report Posted June 2 3 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: ...it would come too dangerously close to contradicting my own beliefs about the possibilities that different parts of the human body...especially the blood and DNA...contain a certain degree of consciousness, memory, personality, personal vibration, etc...OF that particular individual. Blood transfusions have been ongoing for a couple centuries now. If anything other than plasma (consciousness memory, personality, vibration, etc.), is transferred in the blood transfusion process, humans have been *mixed* up for a long time. Of course, DNA definitely has an effect on humans. Environmental factors play a huge role in a human development too. In my opinion, blood transfusions and organ transplants do help to save lives. Howeveer, those processes do not *transfer* any other aspect of the donors to recipients. When it comes to almost anything, there's no shortage of folks who will write articles, books or give interviews telling us about alternative possibilities and experiences based on *their* research. The human imagination and ingenuity makes us the most interesting creation on the planet.
frankster Posted June 2 Report Posted June 2 7 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: frankster If transplantation affects Personality and Behavior....it affects thoughts - be they good or evil.. I need provide no further proof... That study is evidence, not proof. It's not established science that thoughts and emotions actually come from the human heart and you know it. Yes it is evidence... To the Ancients the heart was more important than the brain Modern science is now questioning who is giving orders to who in the human body....is it the heart or the brain? 7 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Although it's not proof of your assertion, I won't continue arguing against it because it would come too dangerously close to contradicting my own beliefs about the possibilities that different parts of the human body...especially the blood and DNA...contain a certain degree of consciousness, memory, personality, personal vibration, etc...OF that particular individual. Every cell and organ is conscious.....according Ancients Knowledge The whole phenomena of Cellular memory is a result of Transplantation technology . 7 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: In other words..... If the blood, the DNA, or each living cell contains some consciousness or essence of the person...that would INCLUDE the heart (as well as other organs) by default. Yes...not just the cell - down to the molecules Your comment above takes it one step further.....physicist may call quantum entanglement. 7 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: No need.... You said: but it does affect you negatively if I mention your struggles with ignorance and confusion that you admitted to ? If you want a clear answer, you need to ask a clear question...lol. Look I cannot make it any clearer with out coming off as being condescending....Which you may interpete as an insult.
Pioneer1 Posted June 2 Author Report Posted June 2 ProfD In Voodoo, Hoodoo, Santeria, Eastern Mystical traditions, and indigenous magic in general...blood, bones, nail clippings, and hair are all used in rituals and spells. It's commonly believed that these body parts...even when they have been separated from the individual for an extended period of time contain the "essence" or "print" of the person. To frankster's point, science today is just now catching up to this with the DNA codes and other individual markers of a person. Hell, it took them thousands of years to realize that nearly each individual had their own unique FINGERPRINT...lol. The human body has also been likened to a "hologram" in which each pixel is actually a representative of the entire PICTURE. But to you that all sounds like magical mumbo-jumbo....lol. frankster Yes it is evidence... Yes, at this point that's all it is...not proof. Every cell and organ is conscious.....according Ancients Knowledge I can agree with that. No need to single the heart out. Yes...not just the cell - down to the molecules I can dig that too. Look I cannot make it any clearer with out coming off as being condescending....Which you may interpete as an insult. Cool. I'm not gonna ask you again.
ProfD Posted June 3 Report Posted June 3 1 hour ago, Pioneer1 said: In Voodoo, Hoodoo, Santeria, Eastern Mystical traditions, and indigenous magic in general...blood, bones, nail clippings, and hair are all used in rituals and spells. But to you that all sounds like magical mumbo-jumbo....lol. Yeah bro. I'm off the train way before it reaches that stop. Especially if Black folks could do anything magical it seems like we'd be running sh8t a long time ago instead of wallowing in or trying to get out of it.
Pioneer1 Posted June 3 Author Report Posted June 3 4 minutes ago, ProfD said: Yeah bro. I'm off the train way before it reaches that stop. Especially if Black folks could do anything magical it seems like we'd be running sh8t a long time ago instead of wallowing in or trying to get out of it. Regardless as to how bad it may seem to be for Black people, 2 things to be kept in mind: This isn't the only Reality. Death exists for a reason.
ProfD Posted June 3 Report Posted June 3 20 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said: Regardless as to how bad it may seem to be for Black people, 2 things to be kept in mind: This isn't the only Reality. Death exists for a reason. I have no idea of what's going on in death. Maybe the playing field is level there. I don't see any reason Black folks should have to wait until they're dead in order to have peace and prosperity abundantly. White folks are enjoying everything that life has to offer on this side. They're not waiting for an all expense paid trip to the other side of *glory*.
frankster Posted June 3 Report Posted June 3 3 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: ProfD In Voodoo, Hoodoo, Santeria, Eastern Mystical traditions, and indigenous magic in general...blood, bones, nail clippings, and hair are all used in rituals and spells. It's commonly believed that these body parts...even when they have been separated from the individual for an extended period of time contain the "essence" or "print" of the person. True 3 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: To frankster's point, science today is just now catching up to this with the DNA codes and other individual markers of a person. Hell, it took them thousands of years to realize that nearly each individual had their own unique FINGERPRINT...lol. The human body has also been likened to a "hologram" in which each pixel is actually a representative of the entire PICTURE. But to you that all sounds like magical mumbo-jumbo....lol. True 3 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: frankster Yes it is evidence... Yes, at this point that's all it is...not proof. For Scientific establishments it has not yet been accepted....They demand more test evidence and confirmation To scientists in the field it is already proof. 3 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Every cell and organ is conscious.....according Ancients Knowledge I can agree with that. No need to single the heart out. The Ancients single out the heart as the most important organ in the body....their wisdom is not yet known by scientists - but they found a brain in the heart This brain in the heart is talking to the brain in skull 9 times more than the brain is talking to the heart... The question then arises who is the boss.....Which one is giving directives 3 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Yes...not just the cell - down to the molecules I can dig that too. cool 3 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Look I cannot make it any clearer with out coming off as being condescending....Which you may interpete as an insult. Cool. I'm not gonna ask you again. cool
Pioneer1 Posted June 4 Author Report Posted June 4 ProfD I have no idea of what's going on in death. Maybe the playing field is level there. Study "Near Death Experiences" and perhaps they may change your mind. I don't see any reason Black folks should have to wait until they're dead in order to have peace and prosperity abundantly. Many don't. Much of it depends on how F/fortunate you are and how smart you are to make that happen for yourself. Even during Slavery some Black folks faired better than others. White folks are enjoying everything that life has to offer on this side. They're not waiting for an all expense paid trip to the other side of *glory*. Many White folks have enough sense (intelligence) to BUILD it for themselves instead of waiting on death or having faith in religion. Many of our people do to. The Nation of Islam teaches that there is no life after physical death and they encourage their members to NOT expect "a pie in the sky in the sweet bye-n-bye after they die" But to "get something SOUND on the GROUND why they're still around" I believe a person should strive for BOTH. Success in this physical life and even more importantly Success in the spiritual life or lives. How can you lose with all grounds covered? frankster The Ancients single out the heart as the most important organ in the body....their wisdom is not yet known by scientists - but they found a brain in the heart The exact quote is: Quote Moreover, the heart's intricate neural network, often referred to as the "heart brain," communicates bidirectionally with the brain and other organs, supporting the concept of heart-brain connection and its role in memory and personality." https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11061817/ First of all the article says the heart's neural network is OFTEN referred to as a "heart brain". That's not the same as finding an actual BRAIN in the heart. This is more colloquial talk in the medical field than actual accepted science. Kind of like how the calf muscle is casually referred to as the "second heart" because it helps pump blood back up into the rest of the body. Quote Many specialists refer to the calf muscle as “the secondary heart” because it plays a crucial role in our body’s circulatory system. Keep reading and learn more about what your second heart does, and how to take good care of it. https://yourhealthyveins.com/caring-for-your-second-heart/ It's not to be taken too seriously. Unless this "second heart" houses a "third brain"...lol.
ProfD Posted June 5 Report Posted June 5 2 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Study "Near Death Experiences" and perhaps they may change your mind. I've already read about NDEs. Didn't change my mind any more than hearing someone prophesizing or speaking in tongues. 2 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: I believe a person should strive for BOTH. Success in this physical life and even more importantly Success in the spiritual life or lives. How can you lose with all grounds covered? Sure. Kinda like walking into a casino and up to the roulette table and dropping a chip on both red and black. I understand most people have to believe in something. It provides meaning and/or a sense of purpose to their lives in the physical and spiritual realms.
frankster Posted June 5 Report Posted June 5 11 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: frankster The Ancients single out the heart as the most important organ in the body....their wisdom is not yet known by scientists - but they found a brain in the heart The exact quote is: First of all the article says the heart's neural network is OFTEN referred to as a "heart brain". That's not the same as finding an actual BRAIN in the heart. You missing the point....I did not set out to prove that the heart just has a brain.....but that the heart has memory and personality which goes directly to the heart being able to have thoughts.. Also in medical terms referred to also means localized... "The notion of the "heart brain," also referred to as the "little brain" or "intrinsic cardiac nervous system," was initially proposed by Dr. J. Andrew Armour in 1991. This conceptualization suggests that the heart possesses its own neural network, comprising around 40,000 neurons capable of sensing, feeling, learning, and retaining memories. The neurons found in the heart share similarities with those present in the brain..... . The heart maintains continuous bidirectional communication with both the brain and the entire body..... , this implies that the heart transmits more signals to the brain than it receives in return" 11 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: This is more colloquial talk in the medical field than actual accepted science. It is emergent science....not colloquial talk 11 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Kind of like how the calf muscle is casually referred to as the "second heart" because it helps pump blood back up into the rest of the body. If it pumps and the heart is also a pump....then it is a localized heart (as in a pump) 11 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: It's not to be taken too seriously. It is to be taken seriously 12 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: .Unless this "second heart" houses a "third brain"...lol. Cool
Pioneer1 Posted June 5 Author Report Posted June 5 ProfD I've already read about NDEs. Didn't change my mind any more than hearing someone prophesizing or speaking in tongues. Well, if you have a half hour or so...check this brutha out: I understand most people have to believe in something. It provides meaning and/or a sense of purpose to their lives in the physical and spiritual realms. If this urge is in humans, perhaps it was given to us for a reason. frankster You missing the point You're missing MY point. MY point is you said that they found a "brain" in the heart. ....I did not set out to prove that the heart just has a brain Good, because you didn't...lol. If it pumps and the heart is also a pump....then it is a localized heart (as in a pump) So if a man uses his fingers to stimulate a woman sexually, is his finger now a "localized penis"???
frankster Posted June 6 Report Posted June 6 7 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: frankster You missing the point You're missing MY point. MY point is you said that they found a "brain" in the heart. If that is your point...then you still wrong I am not the one who named it as such..... Doctors with PhD has named it and called it as such... discovered that the heart has its "little brain" or "intrinsic cardiac nervous system." This "heart brain" is composed of approximately 40,000 neurons that are alike neurons in the brain, meaning that the heart has its own nervous system. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31728781/ The potential to interact with the ‘heart’s little brain’ through direct stimulation, pharmacological or ablative approaches will increase as our understanding of the fundamental science deepens. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7610721/ 7 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: ....I did not set out to prove that the heart just has a brain Good, because you didn't...lol. You silly... I do not have to Pubmed and the doctors did it for me 7 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: If it pumps and the heart is also a pump....then it is a localized heart (as in a pump) So if a man uses his fingers to stimulate a woman sexually, is his finger now a "localized penis"??? Thats up to you....call it what you want 7 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:
Troy Posted June 7 Report Posted June 7 @Pioneer1 interesting video. I'm not sure what we are supposed to take from it. Sounds like he was hallucinating.
ProfD Posted June 7 Report Posted June 7 3 hours ago, Troy said: @Pioneer1 interesting video. I'm not sure what we are supposed to take from it. Sounds like he was hallucinating. I watched the entire video too. I've seen similar and read stories about NDEs (Near Death Experiences). Of course, as the resident agnostic, I see and hear NDEs in the same way as religion and UAP/UFO/ET and ghost sightings, etc. Folks who claim NDE is so great and beautiful never seem to be in a rush to make it permanent. Instead, these same people continue going to doctor appointments or taking medications or whatever allows them to live longer. They become NRDs (Not Rushing to Death).
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