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Black & Write - A documentary on black authors and the publishing business


Troy

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@ Troy

Side A

You're playing with semantics

Intrique and interest are the same thing by definition

Intrique - to arouse the curiosity or INTEREST of by unusual, new, or otherwise fascinating or compelling qualities; appeal strongly to;

I see I'm not the only one who has a way with words

Side B

I'm not your son

You're getting emotional now

You don't know how old I am...I was alive, well, and aware during the 80s

Once again, Hip-Hop is not even 40 years old

Just because you were alive during the inception of Hip-Hop doesn't mean you were active in the culture with an understanding of it

Just like living in the projects doesn't make someone tough with street smarts

Get off the age thing...the horse is dead

Side C

I'm basing my opinions of your thoughts on Hip-Hop on the strength your posts

You don't strike me as someone who has a vast knowledge of Hip-Hop regardless of living in Harlem during that time

There's people living in Harlem today who've never heard of the 5 Percent Nation of Gods and Earths when the Allah School is right there on 126th street and 7th Ave

C'mon now...LOL

I salute anybody who corrects me on any form of history

Side D

I NEVER said Cab Calloway originated the call and response style

I used his name to answer Cynique to show similiarites and a bridge between rappers and jazz musicians in modern times on a mainstream level

Hell, they showed the call and response style amongst slaves on the field in the movie Roots

You're preaching to the choir when you mention the griots of West Africa and Kemetic storytellers

Stop with the condescension by tossing in history lessons...LOL

Side E

Rap IS the last American art-form

What came after rap???

I thought so

It's unfair to put an age limit on rap and Hip-Hop...you can't put an age limit on timeless music

And yes, I don't know a world without rap

However, you don't know me on a personal level to make a statement about my worldly views...LOL

Side F

There are different forms of rap music

And THAT'S why I see myself as a Hip-Hopper until the lights go out in this small world

I'm sure Professor Griff is hitting 50...he's still reppin Hip-Hop

How is Hip-Hop a flash in the pan when it's WORLDWIDE, Troy?

We're not talking about the pet rock here

WIth all due respect, you're not making any sense with that last post

I seriously doubt something that lasted this long with the power of bringing nationalities and ethniticites together is a flash in the pan

That power is the reason why Hip-Hop was co-opted in the first place

I'm starting to believe you're arguing just for the sake of doing it

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OK. Now I understand how you draw false conclusions based upon what I wrote. There is a language challenge; interesting and intriguing are not synonymous -- in anyone's dictionary.

Emotional, as in angry, or something like that -- nah. I've been online debating and arguing with people for the better part of 20 years, Nah'SonSun ;)

Did you know "Son" was a term of endearment used between peers, sort of like Nigga or in other quarters "ace" as in ace boon coon.

At this point, I can see where you might say I'm arguing to be arguing, considering this conversation originally started on a "documentary on black authors and the publishing business", but it takes two to tangle, so we are both guilty.

I think this is our fundamental disagreement:

Rap music is part of my very upbringing and because of that reason I have a nostalgic affinity for it. There was a time I thought it was the best thing out there. At the time, I thought I would always feel that way. But I changed, took on adult responsibilities, raised a couple of kids, traveled, moved out of the ghetto -- my struggle changed. The music no longer speaks to me. I aged grew out of the genre.

On top of that commercial Rap (what most of world is exposed to) degraded -- even by your standards, Nah'Sun.

Again, I believe one eventually outgrows Rap music which is designed to appeal to teenagers or those whose maturity is stunted.

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@ Troy

Side A

Around my parts, we say SUN…not son

Whassup, sun?

That’s how we rock n roll

Not even boy or dog because we aren’t children or animals

Side B

I don’t have a problem with your stance or your views on rap and Hip-Hop per se

It just irks the hell outta me when my elders and those a few years older than me wanna use age as a measurement of knowing history

Your views on Hip-Hop as a whole isn’t complete in my opinion

Just like how mines aren’t complete on book publishing

Most likely I wouldn’t spar with you about book publishing because I don’t know too much about the game in its totality

I’m still learning

I know my lane

Side C

Of course commercialized rap music is trash

On the flip side, commercialized rap music never represented the genre as a whole

You always had to go to the streets to get that raw, uncut style of rap

The only time I listen to today’s rap is when I hit the clubs…mainly because I don’t have a choice

Like I told you before…I stick with the 80s and 90s style of rap

Side D

I beg to differ about outgrowing Hip-Hop because as rap gets older, the people along with it get older as well

You can’t deny the classics…no matter how old you get

Remember...I'm not a casual listener...I view Hip-Hop as a CULTURE

The young MCs are getting older…Jay, Nas, and Eminem are top selling rappers that are either in their 40s or teetering on that milestone

There are many ways to celebrate Hip-Hop besides the music

Michael Eric Dyson speaks on Hip-Hop…even Kevin Powell drops editorials on Hip-Hop…KRS One, Professor Griff, Chuck D, Black Dot and others speak at colleges and universities on the subject of rap and Hip-Hop

What about your man Anthony Whyte…he’s an older cat who claims I am Hip Hop Lit

Hip-Hop is not about the music all the time…it’s multi-faceted

As an MC and author, rap has played a major part in my style of writing when I pen novels...so Hip-Hop is with me til the Omega

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I'm sure you are collecting your thoughts to respond to Nah'sun's riffs, Troy, so I'll do my little rant and run. The most off-putting thing about Nah'Sun is how oblivious he seems to be when it comes to the status of Rap. He's deluded. The music scene, in general, is nonchalant about Rap and the world at large doesn't give a good shit about it. The most credible interest in Rap may, indeed, come from the academic community - the sociologist and anthropologists who study things like culture as it relates to the music of an ethnic group..

To millions and miillions of people, Rap is regarded as gibberish they wouldn't pay money to hear, preferring, instead to hum along with elevator music. But because Nah is so insulated, he obviously thinks that there is something monumental about Rap, a brand which gets more mudane by the day except for the insignificant esoteric underground community he is so invested in.

And, actually, there is a good reason for Rap's limited appeal. There is nothing more outstanding about it than, say, C&W or Jazz or Rock 'N Roll. They all have their rabid fans and their sub-genres, and they all have their purists and afficionados and they all have interesting roots. They also all have world-world wide appeal. Just because Nah'Suh is a fanatic about Rap doesn't anoint it as being "sacred" or special. And considering how society is evolving and science advancing, it's myopic to believe that Rap is the final frontier in music. Music is the universal language, there might be something new out there in space that is just waiting to be tapped into.

If Nah'sun, with all of his arrogance, is older than we think he is, he's doing a good job of misleading us.

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And considering how society is evolving and science advancing, it's myopic to believe that Rap is the final frontier in music. Music is the universal language, there might be something new out there in space that is just waiting to be tapped into.

Absolutely! This sums up nicely my train of thought when I said that it will be interesting to see what my kids' generation comes up with.

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Yes it is clear at this point the age thing irks you. You'll be more sensitive when you are older and realize youngins have increasingly little respect for the experience and knowledge age brings.

Nah'Sun you may know more about some aspects of the book world than I do. It depends on a combination of your experiences, study and interests. No one knows everything about anything. We are all continuously learning.

The fact that you view Hip-hop as a culture really explains the rest.

I fully appreciate there are Brothers out there who have are attempting to elevate Hip-hop into a culture, a way of living, giving it religious significance --- and that is cool. I just don't buy into it at that level.

The folks you mentioned Kevin Powell (who has posted here in the past), KRS-1 and the others make their living talking to the youth. The average working stiff really does not care that much.

Michael Dyson and Cornell, speak the language of those they talk to and are quite skilled at it. So when a Michael Dyson spits some lyric he has committed to memory it is a gimmick used to show he is "down with the masses". The audience is generally entertained and young folks find it endearing, "Look ma, the old ivy league professor knows a Nas rap!" It is the same reason Barack sang Al Green, and had a "beer summit" with the Boston red neck.

I'm intrigued by hip-hop culture though. I'll start another conversation and see if I can recruit some hip-hip heads to participate.

But don't get me wrong I'm not enemy of hip-hop:

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Well said, Troy. Your remarks were the reflection of an overview that bespeaks of maturity.

I'm sure Nah'Sun skipped my post because he thinks I'm unqualified to speak on the subject. He reason for this would probably include the opinion that I am "old and over the hill". Like you suggest, Nah'sun's sensitivity about the age thing only seems to apply his chronology

I admit I am not qualified to speak on the dyamics of Rap but I can give input on how its totality resonates with society at large; this is where the question of a broad perspective comes in. And I am also attuned enough to detect the underlying tone of Nah'sun's posts, the gist of which was a condesending attitude and an assumption that his undying devotion to hip-hop made him above reproach. Yes, he is knowledgable about the subject so near and dear to his heart, but not being able to see past your nose is a short sightedness more commonly found in youth. :rolleyes:

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Cynique, I give credit to Nah'Sun for even engaging. But what is the point of engaging if you are so closed minded? You lose the benefit of the activity. It is not about showing how smart you are or how much you know. It is about benefiting from the exchange by exposing your ideas to critique and hopefully having a little fun while you are at it.

While Nah'Sun may be knowledgeable his level of knowledge is constrained by the box he has put himself in.

It is like the American, who has never had a passport, has never read anything written by someone outside his community and still KNOWS the US is the best country in the world.

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@ Troy

Side A

As a person who learns from different School of Thoughts, I’m far from closed minded

Now you're attacking my character...I'll let that one slide and take that comment as tongue and cheek

I admitted to not knowing much about the book publishing industry...so how the hell admitting my ignorance about certain things a mark of closed mindedness or immaturity?

You're reaching for the moon hoping to grab Mercury

Side B

I didn’t say rap music is the be-all-end-all of American music

I’m saying it’s the last American art form in music because nothing has come out AFTER it

Side C

The reason why the age thing irks me is because older people think that a numerical value based on the Gregorian calendar gives them validity to know everything or have a larger range of knowledge, wisdom and understanding when that’s a farce

My ego is not massive to not learn from those who are younger than me

You NEVER stop learning, like you stated…I don’t give a damn if you’re 200 years old…you’re ignorant of something that someone can give you knowledge about even if a youth brings something new to your attention

The elders not learning from the youth and vice versa is one of the major reasons why a generation gap is present

It’s funny how older folk place their ego on age as if that’s the only thing they have worth living for…LOL

Side D

Culture - the quality in a person or society that arises from a concern for what is regarded as excellent in arts, letters, manners, scholarly pursuits, etc.

By definition, Hip-Hop IS a culture with its own way of talking, fashion, literature, arts, music, dancing, etc.

The Zulu Nation can tell you that…LOL

They study Hip-Hop in colleges and universities

Hip-Hop was thought of as a culture years before money came into play

We have two different views about Hip-Hop (which means Higher Infinite Power Healing Our People)

And I got that definition from Professor Griff and the Black Dot

As far as Michael Eric Dyson…I agree that he’s robotic when it comes to rap and tries way too hard…but hey, at least he’s trying…LOL

Oh yeah...Kevin Powell used to write for Vibe Magazine...he's been writing about Hip-Hop before he stepped into the political arena

Side E

As far as Cynique…I studied her posting style as a lurker…therefore, I won’t bother replying to her in this particular subject since she admitted to having no knowledge to back her so-called debate

I never said rap and Hip-Hop are perfect, but don't act like other forms of music don't have their share of criticism

As far as yourself…

I don’t think you’re an enemy of Hip-Hop…you just don’t know much about the culture to engage in an argument with someone who does

You saying Hip-Hop is not a culture gives validity to my thought

Point blank

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All old people don't think what you accuse them of thinking in your self-serving statement, Nah'Sun. Many of them draw their conclusions by simply listening to the self-indicting things that young people say. (I noticed you felt the need to tell us that you've been referred to as an "old soul".) And your oblique response to what I've written in my posts is well-noted. Come up with a better rationale for being chicken. Fact of the matter is, I wasn't debating. I was broadening the discussion by expressing another point of view. And, actually, your contentions weren't objective enough to spark a good debate. In attempting to score points against Troy, you didn't rebut him, all you did was contradict him. :wacko:

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I'm serious, Nah'Sun, when I say that you take the same stance about old people that you accuse us of taking about young people. But you can't seem to discern this. You whine about old people talking down to you, yet it doesn't seem to occur to you how you try to dismiss older people. Somebody as advanced as you think you are, would recognize this inconsistency. :wacko:

If you were really cool, you'd do a Jay-Z and brush off references to your age like crumbs on your shoulder. But, nooooo, you continue to pout about us not regarding you as our peer. Me, I don't give a damn if you think I'm "over-the-hill", particularly since the wisdom that comes with age allows me to accept that I ain't never been on top of the hill when it comes to being an author. ^_^

Go somewhere and spin your frisbee - oops, I mean your records. :P

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@ Cynique

Here you go with the classic Cynique baiting

I'll take the bait to entertain myself for the moment

I'm not whining about "old" people taking down to me...I think it's funny in the grand scheme of things

Especially since no one in this thread knows how old I am :lol:

And yes, I still own a record player...Gemini to be exact...vinyl in great shape as well

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So Nah'Sun you are opened minded? It was not an attack, just an observation. But if you can point to anything you've written in the week or so that we've been carrying on this conversation I'd be glad to read it and reconsider my observation.

I write that you are closed minded because you don't seem willing to let new information in, if it goes counter to your current beliefs. Again that is nothing new; it is more common than not.

Here is an example; If I tell you I witnessed, first hand, the birth of hip-hop. People who are really interested in learning more might take pause and say hey -- as much as I know about hip-hop here is a Brother that witnessed it from the beginning; maybe it is worth hearing what he has to say, perhaps it will give me a new perspective -- better yet I'll take advantage of the forum and ask him some questions. Maybe I'll try to understand why he no longer feels the same way he used to feel.

But because I tell you I don't by into all the depth and gravitas others ascribe to hip-hop, you tell me I don't know anything about it. This is a religious debate -- pointless. As pointless as a scientist trying to get a Christian to believe dinosaurs were long extinct before man came along or that there is nothing wrong with same sex marriage...

But like your relative age, your are also sensitive about any slight against hip-hop. I'm just not sure why, unless the strengths of your beliefs are a little shaky.

As an aside, and I'm just speaking for myself here, I try not to insult, demean or attack people personally here or anywhere or in the real world. I do try to be honest and sometimes when you are not mincing words that can be construed as an attack.

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Sorry for the intrusion but HEY HEY HEY... IT'S ME, A FLASH FROM THE PAST, Mr. CareyCarey :-) . Greeting all. It appears I've arrived a little late for this party -- ongoing discussion. However, I only stopped by to gloat :P . That's right, for those who are new to this site, on several occasions since president Obama took office, Troy, Cynique and a few others have debated our presidents' chances of gaining a second term. Well, on several occasions Cynique and Troy implied it was a done deal. Yep, Troy thought he (Obama) was one and done (I believe he said he wouldn't vote for him). Now, on the other hand I was persistent in my opinion that he's a lock for a second term. So now I am coming back to gloat.... HOW YOU LIKE US NOW -_-! You know, let me remind you guys that I always asked the question "if not Obama than who?". But nawl, Troy and his sidekick always ran from that question. Anyway, now that the out-of-touch Mr. Get-Rich Romney is the Republican's choice, there's no turning back. Now we have that clown sticking his foot in his big rich mouth, overseas and at home. Consequently, this election is a done deal. When he slapped practically every middle-class American with his 47% remark, the fat lady stood-up to sing. And please, don't even think about the upcoming debates.... SLAM-DUNK... LAY UP... this will be like taking candy from a baby. Listen, President Obama is arguably the best orator of the last 50 years. Heck, in my opinion he's in the top 5 of ALL TIME! So, as I've said in the past, most people vote by their hearts, not because of their concerns on the issues ( i.e, Obama's stand on medicare, the jobless rate or tax issues) . Therefore, since Romney is plastic, wooden and basically a flip-flopper, the debates will only add to -- expose -- his out of touch with the average American persona. Now I am sure you guys have heard the saying "what leaves the heart will find another's". Well, in short, you can fool some of the people some of the time, but Romney has stuck his foot in his mouth one too many times. The upcoming debates WILL NOT be his saving grace. Lights out and game over... landslide victory for Barack Hussein Obama, the 44th and current President of the United States. Having said that, it's now time for me to sing a song by the Ohio Players, IT'S ALL OVER! " Put that suitcase down, darlin'

we ain't leavin' town, they know they need us around. It's all over - but the shoutin'. :D

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@ Troy

Side A

Cut it out, Troy

Just because you were there in the beginning doesn’t mean you have a full understanding of the Hip-Hop culture

There are people who are older than you who STILL don’t get it

You have negroes who lived in the 60s and STILL don’t know much about the Black Panther Party

I’m not interested in learning about Hip-Hop from you because your knowledge of Hip-Hop is limited

Simple as that

You don’t view Hip-Hop as a culture like its forefathers do

So why would I learn anything from you about Hip-Hop besides surface information that I can get from someone who REALLY lived the culture?

That’s like asking a tiger how it’s like to live as an elephant

You remind me of that elder who claim they know everything about the Civil Rights Movement but never participated in marches, sit-ins, riots, etc

Side B

I take that back…I’m NOT open minded

I won’t smoke crack to try out its effects…so I guess I am closed minded

Side C

The age thing is dead…leave it alone

You don’t know how old I am…so that issue is moot

It’s funny how you switched from the topic of Hip-Hop to the issue of age to cover up your lack of knowledge about the subject we’re on now]

Classic example of diversion

I see you

LOL

Side D

I’m not religious…so I don’t know what it’s like to be dogmatic

*shrugs*

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In the interim of waiting for Troy's response to your stone-walling, Nah'Sun, because I am curious about what is so integral to who you are. What is the hip-hop culture?? I know - if I have to ask, I don't need to know.

Nevertheless, in my limited understanding, this is what I have observed and deduced from my little senior citizen perch in a suburb of Chicago. Hip-hop is a mystique whose credo is about "keeping it real" as exemplified by an appreciation for authentic rap which is the music of the street, - an art form that incorporates the spoken word when expressing the violence, vulgarity and disillusionment of the hood. I'd guess hip-hop attire leans toward casual chic or sports gear, and for guys, a pair of Timberland boots and high-priced designer gym shoes a requisite. I'd assume an awareness of Afro American roots is a given, including a passing knowledge of cool jazz and an appreciation of R&B. Natural hair-dos would be the preference of hip-hoppers, ala afros, corn-rows, twists or the dread-locked extensions that can be defined as "affectations". Drug of choice: weed. Expensive booze a priority. Booty calls a plus. Marriage optional...bibliography: gritty street lit from the past and present, along with works of radical intellectualism...idiom bi-lingual, alternating between Ebonics and standard English. Demeanor: swagger. Politics: anti-establishment.

Correct me and explain what is it that makes the smug disciples of this ho-hum counter-culture consider it so special???

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Nah’Sun I am interested to see how you answer Cynique’s question. I think it is a valid one. To add to it, I figured I’d throw my own question out there for the "expert":

How do you feel about the negative images of women and the violent images of the black community as painted by many of the songs in rap/hip hop?

I personally loved hip hop in my younger days and can still remember watching my older brother and his friends break-dancing in my parents’ driveway to music blaring out of a big silver boom box. Dougie Fresh & the Get Fresh Crew, Lisa Lisa & Cult Jam, Slick Rick, LL Cool J (not in any particular order, just naming what comes to mind - and forgive me if I spelled some names wrong). I remember being a steady fan of the music all the way until Snoop & Dr. Dre hooked up together. I still smile when I hear “I, two, three and to the four…” Good times those were for me, and even a little bit when Eminem showed up on the scene.

But as I continued to get older and live life (get married, have kids, have divorces, lose people, gain people, etc etc), the music got older and took various twists and turns, and more and more I began to be bothered by the negativity of some of the music. Women really got targeted and I started getting sick of it. It got to the point where I didn’t want to listen to any of it.

And the truth of the matter is, today, my preferred music is Country. Reason? Simple. The stories they tell. They are true-like stories without all the demeaning attitudes toward women. I find it shameful that we who supposedly love our people and love our music and yeah, even love hip hop, can sit here and act like we don’t have a problem with some of the stuff that gets produced (and it isn’t just mainstream so don’t come at me with the radio argument).

One day, about 7 or 8 years ago I decided to listen to something different. Caught a music video on television by Kenney Chesney called “There Goes My Life.” I watched the video. It was one that I could relate to; a song about a man whose daughter grows up and leaves home. I ended up watching the whole video. Then I found myself trying to catch the video again so I could hear the song and listen to the story again. And that’s how I found that I liked country music. And I listen to it to this day - because of the stories it tells. Hip hop? Well, it just isn’t the same. It doesn’t give me anything useful or even entertaining (beyond a good beat; a beat which gets ruined by the words). Too much of hip hop is revolved around the exploitation of women and our black communities for my tastes.

Question repeat:

How do you feel about the negative images of women and the violent images of the black community as painted by many of the songs in rap/hip hop?

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Nah'Sun, I never wrote I have a full understanding of hip-hop. While I know a lot about some things I would never say I have a full understanding of anything.

However because I was there from the beginning of hip-hop, I have a knowledge of hip-hop you don't have and you will never will have because you are too arrogant to even be interested.

No, I don't view hip-hop the way you view it, but I don't view Christianity the way a church deacon might. That however that does not mean that I don't know anything about either one. To assume so is just... dumb.

It will be interesting to read your response to Cyqniue and Writergirl's questions.

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@ Writer Girl

Side A

For one, I already said rap music isn't perfect

And two, why not talk about the rap music that brings forth intellectual and consciousness to the masses???

It's funny how people who LEAST listen to rap music have MORE to say about it

The majority of rap music buyers are women

Why not ask THEM that question???

Rap music is the reflection of society...if you wanna so-called clean up rap, then clean up the mentality of the people

Rap didn't create the public...the public created rap

Side B

Country music is your preference...I don't knock anyone for their choice of music

If that's your cup of henny, more power to you

You act like all rap is demeaning to women when you have songs like "Brown Skin Lady" by Black Star (Mos Def and Talib Kweli) and "Beautiful Skin" from Goodie Mobb that big up women

There are countless other songs that promote women in a positive light, but it seems like either you're only exposed to the so-called negative or you don't listen to a lot of rap to see the variety

That's like saying all Black men are criminals and dead beat dads based on shows like COPS and Maury

You need to stop

@ Troy

Once again...

You being there doesn't mean anything when you weren't an active participant

Because if you were an active participant in the 80s, you'll know Hip-Hop is a culture

Looking outside your window and watching from afar doesn't mean you know Hip-Hop

It ain't where you from, it's where you at - Rakim

You don't even know where I'm from...LOL

You a funny dude

And for someone who champions Street Lit, which has it's own share of misogny, you have the nerve to see how I response to those two posters

Okay, let me ask you these questions:

How do you feel about misogny in Street Fiction?

What do you know about Hip-Hop?

And don't Google either...LOL

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Nevertheless, in my limited understanding, this is what I have observed and deduced from my little senior citizen perch in a suburb of Chicago. Hip-hop is a mystique whose credo is about "keeping it real" as exemplified by an appreciation for authentic rap which is the music of the street, - an art form that incorporates the spoken word when expressing the violence, vulgarity and disillusionment of the hood. I'd guess hip-hop attire leans toward casual chic or sports gear, and for guys, a pair of Timberland boots and high-priced designer gym shoes a requisite. I'd assume an awareness of Afro American roots is a given, including a passing knowledge of cool jazz and an appreciation of R&B. Natural hair-dos would be the preference of hip-hoppers, ala afros, corn-rows, twists or the dread-locked extensions that can be defined as "affectations". Drug of choice: weed. Expensive booze a priority. Booty calls a plus. Marriage optional...bibliography: gritty street lit from the past and present, along with works of radical intellectualism...idiom bi-lingual, alternating between Ebonics and standard English. Demeanor: swagger. Politics: anti-establishment.

Correct me and explain what is it that makes the smug disciples of this ho-hum counter-culture consider it so special???

A few rappers advocated voting (remember Rock the Vote?)

David Banner loaded buses of food and water and was one of the FIRST to help out victims of Hurricane Katrina when Prez Bush was slow with his response

But nobody wants to bring that up, right?

LOL

The groups below (De La Soul, A Tribe Called Quest, Monie Love and The Jungle Brothers) are considered "real" Hip-Hop, and they don't fit your description of what Hip-Hop is about

In fact, they denounced the materialism and those same vulgarities you claim that's Hip-Hop in their albums

Rap music isn't monolithic

There are rappers who are vegetarian and rap about the dangers of eating red meat and the consumption of liquor (see Dead Prez "Healthy")

But nobody wants to bring that up, right?

The stereotype of Hip-Hop is hiliarious when it comes from Black people, those who are a victim of those same stereotypes...LOL

TheNativeTongue_page-bg_7541.jpg

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Nah'Sun

Perhaps nobody is bringing these groups (and these positive aspects) of hip hop up because nobody has any questions about them. The question I had, in particular, is regarding the negative side of hip hop. I even gave you an example of what keeps my interest concerning music (i.e. country music fan bc of the stories told in the music) and I thought I explained why I ventured away from hip hop (got tired of the negativity). And I asked what I thought was a straight forward question. You are the one who claims to BE hip hop, and so naturally one would think that you would be willing to discuss all sides - good, bad, and indifferent. But you do nothing more than answer questions with more questions and flat out rude, senseless accusations.

I'm done.

No, seriously...I'm done, even though I know you're going to come back with more insults.

And you won't see an LOL here because this isn't funny. This going around in circles is counterproductive.

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Tell 'em, writergirl! :angry:

In other words, Nah'Suh, like the world in general where types of people run the gamut from A-Z, hip-hoppers are just ordinary mopes with one thing in common: they call themselves "hip-hoppers". Big friggin deal. <_< zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Frankly at this point, I've decided that hip-hoppers take themselves a lot more seriously than I do. Suffice to say, I really couldn't care less what they represent. They are what they are, and I bet Halloween with its costumes and trick or treat tradition is their favorite holiday. :ph34r:

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Nah'Sun

Believe me, from one who has fought many "battles" (arguably over 200) with the duo of Troy and Cynique, you're handling your business. Keep in mind that Cynique will never-ever, no never concede a point. Troy might throw you a bone but not Cynique. She's an expert at clouding the issue and moving the goal post (you've probably noticed that). Anyway, I skimmed over this thread. You've made several valid points but your opposition will never admit to that, so don't be deterred by their indifference. Hold your ground... you're doing a good job.

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What points of Nah'Suh's haven't I conceded? I said I wasn't an expert and was giving my impression of hip-hop. Am I obligated to like hip-hop just because he does? As usual you're a day late and a dollar short, carey, seeing things that aren't there. What brought you back here? Nobody stopping by your sorrry-assed blog to read your drivel??? Poor ol fella. :wacko:

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Now now Cynique, don't be so mean. I thought fine black wine mellowed with age? Besides, you know the lick... there's no place like home. And since I was born and raised in this here brier patch, just because your name is now on the door, don't be asking me what brought me back. Just say that you missed me. :wub:

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Get over yourself, carey. I've missed you like I'd miss a toothache. And nobody cares about your tenure here. All of your old cohorts have moved on. You're just another name on the roster, somebody whose reappearance inspires nothing more than a squint.

Sulking about why you could never shut me down, is equivalent to an old dog licking his wounds while waiting for somebody to throw him a bone. You intruded on a perfectly good discussion with your ongoing need to discredit me. How pathetic can you get?

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@ Carey Carey

Thanks for the love, fam

I know what the hell I’m talking about…LOL

I speak on things I know…and look, listen and observe on subjects I know nothing about

Troy and Cynique are too stuck on the age factor to take heed of what I know considering I’ve LIVED the Hip-Hop culture

@ Cynique

Side A

Why not question me about the positive aspects of Hip-Hop?

Why negativity ALWAYS has to be synonymous with Hip-Hop in general and rap music specifically?

There are rappers and rap producers who are currently teachers and professors like 9th Wonder and NY Oil

Why not talk about that???

If someone in the Hip-Hop community does something righteous, the masses turn a blind eye

But let a rapper shoot someone or engages in criminality and you'll see that get full blown coverage

It seems like the only people who have lopsided views about Hip-Hop are those who are least knowledgeable about the culture such as yourself

Side B

You say you have a limited understanding about Hip-Hop, and yet you STILL find ways to stereotype Hip-Hop as a whole which is recklessness within itself

You negated the fact that every region and city has their own style

If you go to LA, you might see dudes wearing Khakis, Cortez Nikes, and Chuck Taylors instead of Timberlands and Hoodies

Of course rap music can be negative…America created that Frankenstein considering the conditions that a good number of the artists have come from

Rap music is American as apple pie

Point blank period

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Have I really said anything bad about hip-hop, Nah'Suh??? Just because I can take it or leave, doesn't mean I think it's worthless. It just ain't my cup of tea. As steeped as you are in your devotion to hip-hop, why do you even care what I think about it?? Since I preface what I say with the caveat that I don't know that much about hip-hop, then I'm exonerated. Didn't I request that you correct me? Did I dispute your accusation that I gave stereotypical examples in my limited knowledge of this subject?. And a lot of what I said was tongue in cheek. But you can't take teasing!

And I don't know who's any more stuck on the age thing than you. You're the one who can't let it go. Why should it make a difference to you if I think you've got some maturing to do. If you're secure in your skin, my opinion should'nt matter. And again, you attribute a lot of what I say to my age. You can dish it out, but can't take it. Grow up! :lol:

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Your getting uptight about me sterotyping hip-hoppers says a lot about you and your beloved "culture", Nah'Suh. If I can take you at your word, under close scrutiny, there is no such thing as a typical hip-hopper. They are not only "this", they can also be "that". They might be one way or - they may be another. This being the case, what makes them unique??? Presumably, the only way hip-hoppers can be identified is if they place this label on themselves. Apparently, they are a loose-knit segment of the black populace who have one thing in common: They are fans of Rap music and are tolerant of street lit. Whatever.

Your impression that I said "bad" things about your "cult" was a subjective reaction. In my post giving my version of hip-hop, I did not criticize. When I said that "keeping it real" was the hip-hop credo then, to me, this excused a multitude of sins, especially since I'm not a Polly-Anna. I'm not appalled by gangsta rap because I consider the source. I'm detached about fashion choices because folks are entitled to do their own thing. Booze and drugs? Whatever floats your boat. Booty calls? Enjoy. Anti-establishment? Count me in. In the twilight of my years, I've learned to live and let live. But I'm also a cynic and have concluded that some people live a little more sensibly than others.

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Your getting uptight about me sterotyping hip-hoppers says a lot about you and your beloved "culture", Nah'Suh. If I can take you at your word, under close scrutiny, there is no such thing as a typical hip-hopper. They are not only "this", they can also be "that". They might be one way or - they may be another. This being the case, what makes them unique??? Presumably, the only way hip-hoppers can be identified is if they place this label on themselves. Apparently, they are a loose-knit segment of the black populace who have one thing in common: They are fans of Rap music and are tolerant of street lit. Whatever.

Your impression that I said "bad" things about your "cult" was a subjective reaction. In my post giving my version of hip-hop, I did not criticize. When I said that "keeping it real" was the hip-hop credo then, to me, this excused a multitude of sins, especially since I'm not a Polly-Anna. I'm not appalled by gangsta rap because I consider the source. I'm detached about fashion choices because folks are entitled to do their own thing. Booze and drugs? Whatever floats your boat. Booty calls? Enjoy. Anti-establishment? Count me in. In the twilight of my years, I've learned to live and let live. But I'm also a cynic and have concluded that some people live a little more sensibly than others.

#Stereotypes

#Generalizations

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Because the last sentence in the above post would bring what was an intelligent discussion to an ignoble end, since I wrote it, I will take it upon myself to bring closure in a more civil manner. The sentence was a figurative one; graphic in the image it conjured up. :wacko: But it is an example of what an exchange can degenerate into when, to paraphrase writergirl's observation, people write and write for the sake of seeing their words in print. :unsure:

Nah'Sun wrote and wrote and wrote, pontificating on his favorite subject like a Trekkie at a Star Trek convention. Me and others offered our opinions, writing and writing and writing but this input rolled off Nah'Sun's back. Not only was he the undisputed authority on the subject of Hip-Hop, but - his age was just a number! The world gasped. :o Guess what happened next? Nah'Sun ran out of words. And nobody cared... -_- zzzzzzzz

What is the moral of this story? If you call yourself "Nah'Sun", don't be surprised if you get "Nah'Mooned". :blink:

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Cynique, please don't fool yourself into believing (and you're not convincing anyone else) that Nah'Sun points were not well taken by those of us whose views are not biased. On the other hand, I saw your comments as a severe case of DENIAL.

Listen, as I see it, Nah'Sun did not run out of words per se, he just got tired of trying to teach an old dog new tricks. I mean, you've admitted to be cynical and some have defined you as "bitter", so what purpose would it serve to continually build a platform for you to run around spewing hater-aid infused envy and jealousy?

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Do you ever know what the hell you're talking about in your ongoing efforts to monitor and moderate what goes on here, carey? Does it ever occur to you that as "you see it" may be skewed because of your resentment of me? You're the one in denial. Input by Troy and writergirl were the points that were not well taken by Nah'Sun as he continued to blow them off. None of us ever said that he didn't know what he was talking about, but when it came to me, he preferred to tap dance around everything I said because he couldn't bring himself to concede that I was not totally wrong in my impressions of hip-hop. Of course you can't discern this because you're too busy suckin up to Nah'Sun, probably hoping he'd check out your bog, - oops I mean blog.

And why would I be jealous because Nah'Sun knows more about hip hop than me? Is that something an old lady like me should be envious of? Does that make any sense? You're silly beyond words. And the pathetic thing about it is that you think you are so on point about everything. Get some new material. Bottom line is is that you want Troy to give you a corner because you've been here longer than I have and you're lealous.

Personally, I hope Nah'Sun comes back to discuss other subjects. The more the merrier, I always say. I also hope Milton returns. He always had interesting things to say - unlike you who are about as interesting as dirt.

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  • 2 weeks later...

@ Carey

I was on vacation...which means I have something that Cynique needs…A LIFE

Other than that, you’re absolutely right…I got bored with the discussion…time to move on

@ Cynique

*translates Cynique's post by the way of Charlie Brown's teacher*

Wha wha wha WHA wha WHA wha wha WHA wha WHA

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Yada, yada, yada, Nah'whatever. Yeah, you got a life, all right, stuck in your hIp-hop mode, a hopeless personification of Arrested Development. :wacko:

I've lived my life, and when you're a retired lady of leisure like me, the life I have left is made more amusing by people like you who are clueless as to what a joke you are. :blink:

Vacation, hell, You were probably somewhere curled up in a fetal position, sucking your thumb, trying to convince yourself that you matter. You and carey make a good couple. Tweedle-dee and Tweedle-dum. :P

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