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Troy and Cynique, What About A Time Called Now!? Election 2012

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HOWDY YAWL! Whatsup... what's shakin'... how's it hangin'? It's been a while - huh? Well I just noticed that this portion of the discussion board has been named Cynique's Corner. That's great, she deserved it. Yeah... I remember when. Anyway, I dropped this on the other board but after seeing her name over here, I thought, well hell, let me drop this at her doorstep. Btw, that title is actually my motto. You know, I've danced with the devil (and loved it) and kissed the sky, but today i'm just happy to be alive, hence "What about a time called now"? Okay, here we go, my thoughts on election day 2012. --> Sorry for the intrusion but HEY HEY HEY... IT'S ME, A FLASH FROM THE PAST, Mr. CareyCarey :-) . Greeting all. It appears I've arrived a little late for this party -- ongoing discussion. However, I only stopped by to gloat :P . That's right, for those who are new to this site, on several occasions since president Obama took office, Troy, Cynique and a few others have debated our presidents' chances of gaining a second term. Well, on several occasions Cynique and Troy implied it was a done deal. Yep, Troy thought he (Obama) was one and done (I believe he said he wouldn't vote for him). Now, on the other hand I was persistent in my opinion that he's a lock for a second term. So now I am coming back to gloat.... HOW YOU LIKE US NOW -_-! You know, let me remind you guys that I always asked the question "if not Obama than who?". But nawl, Troy and his sidekick always ran from that question. Anyway, now that the out-of-touch Mr. Get-Rich Romney is the Republican's choice, there's no turning back. Now we have that clown sticking his foot in his big rich mouth, overseas and at home. Consequently, this election is a done deal. When he slapped practically every middle-class American with his 47% remark, the fat lady stood-up to sing. And please, don't even think about the upcoming debates.... SLAM-DUNK... LAY UP... this will be like taking candy from a baby. Listen, President Obama is arguably the best orator of the last 50 years. Heck, in my opinion he's in the top 5 of ALL TIME! So, as I've said in the past, most people vote by their hearts, not because of their concerns on the issues ( i.e, Obama's stand on medicare, the jobless rate or tax issues) . Therefore, since Romney is plastic, wooden and basically a flip-flopper, the debates will only add to -- expose -- his out of touch with the average American persona. Now I am sure you guys have heard the saying "what leaves the heart will find another's". Well, in short, you can fool some of the people some of the time, but Romney has stuck his foot in his mouth one too many times. The upcoming debates WILL NOT be his saving grace. Lights out and game over... landslide victory forBarack Hussein Obama, the 44th and current President of the United States. Having said that, it's now time for me to sing a few words from a song by the Ohio Players," IT'S ALL OVER" --> Put that suitcase down, darlin'

we ain't leavin' town, they know they need us around. It's all over - but the shoutin'. :D

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I have never predicted that Obama would lose, Carey. I restricted my comments to his inept staff of advisors and his silly partisan loyalty to Chicago sports teams and, later, to his incessant fund raising. I've always felt the Republican field of possible candidates was so sorry, that Obama could win by default. Even so, you're treading a slippery slope with your extravagant predictions. I don't think even Obama considers his victory a slam dunk. He's not that stupid. That's why he's rehearsing like mad for these debates, hoping not to repeat any of the gaffes he's made in the past. And you'd better hope people don't follow their hearts because they're an awful lot of them who'd rather vote for a bad white candidate than a mediocre black one. The latest polls show the candidates neck-and-neck. You and your one track mind are just like the talking heads on the Fox network.

And it ain't like your not getting an answer to asking "if not Obama , than who?", was some kind of a coup d'tat. All it proves is that, sadly, there is a paucity of capable black leaders.

So your stupid gloating falls on deaf ears because I ain't particular about who wins. My days of being a naive cheer leading political groupie for puppets of corporate America are over. I'll leave that to you. ^_^

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...puppets of corporate America...

Real talk!...Word up!...Fresh!!!

Seriously, I too believe that's what we're looking at when dealing with these politicians. How can one get excited about that - for either side? Can someone please answer me this?

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Carey! Long time no read.

Yes, I did predict that Obama would not gain a second term. I said so early on in his presidency.

I also accurately predicted that he would win the 1st term -- before he even announced.

While I don't feel nearly as strongly about an Obama 2nd term defeat, I definitely don't think he is out of the woods -- despite a $1 Billion+ war chest. The only thing saving him is his lackluster republican opposition.

I never wrote or said I was not voting for Obama. At least you wrote "I believe" instead of stating it as a fact an running with it. I see you've come a long way ;)

The best orator in the last 50 years -- 'ole man you must be mad! Obama can't even lick the bottom on Farrakhan's shoes in the oration department. Obama does not have the range of emotion nor the intensity, to make him one of the greatest. Sure he is good but great -- naw. He always looks like he is watching a tennis match while he is speaking.

Obama does not even stack up well against Al Sharpton. Others that would knock Obama out the top 5, all of whom I heard speak personally, include; Iyanla Vanzant, TD Jakes, and if I thought for two more minutes I could name another 10 and get Barack down to under the top 15 -- without even considering non-Black speakers.

Oh, and as far as who I'm voting for; Jill Stein of the Green Party.

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TROY!!! NO....!!! Stop it! Al Sharpton... seriously? Although I am a fan of the Rev Sharpton, he's not even close to Obama. Sometimes his words are unintelligible and he has been known to "stumble" around. But I have to give it to you.. you picked a good one in TD Jakes. But lyania Vanzant, not. Her messages are poignant but unlike TD Jakes or Obama, her delivery does not appear to come from her heart... which instantly turns me off. And yes, Farrakhan would be in my top 5. But I am surprised you didn't mention Martin Luther King? None of the above possess his command of the English language, nor can they set-up their speech as expertly as he. In short, he commands attention. He may be my tippy top.

I don't know, but I believe some of your opinion of Obama's oratory skills is rooted in your dislike of his political positions? Also, I believe what you're seeing in his "delivery", those small nuances are born from the fact that he has to measure every single word and/or phrase that come from his mouth. But I disagree, he differently has a huge range of emotion. I just can't understand how you'd list him behind Al Sharpton?!

In respect to non-black speakers, off the top of my head, I can't think of one I'd even consider in the top 25. Please don't say Ronald Reagan. I thought he was a joke, not a speaker. What about you? Give me a few who you would list in front of President Obama. But wait, back up, Bill Clinton would have to be in the mix.

In reference to the presidential race, we'll agree to close the book on that one. I'm not even going to follow you down the Green Party road. And yes, I've come a long way ;) Dealing with you and Cynique for several years, I was forced to measure my words and choose my fights wisely.

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I did not mention King because that would be too easy. I could run a list of baptist ministers that would rings around Obama in their sleep. To help you with the white orators who are better than Obama -- look to the mega churches and you'll be able to answer your own question.

It has nothing to do with agreement with Obama, Sharpton has said a ton of things I disagree with. Sure Obama enunciates better than Sharpton, but Shaprton is funnier, better unscripted, but most importantly says what he feels in a much more compelling way than Obama. Even at a pep rally I videoed, in Harlem, of Obama speaking Cornel West was more dynamic than Barack. Barack is a good speaker, but overrated as the white media has a tendency to overate Black speakers who sound like them an devalue Black speakers who don't.

But you did hit on a point about Barack "...born from the fact that he has to measure every single word and/or phrase that come from his mouth". And this I'm sure is a factor in way I rank him below so many others.

Unfortunately this is one of the more disappointing things of the political process. ANYONE who speaks for more 5 minutes will make a mistake in speaking. The way these mistakes are blown out of proportion is a distraction away from real issues.

And no I don't expect you, or very many others, to follow me down the Green Party path. Honestly I'm not all that charged up about them either, as they have a snow ball's chance... Consider it a protest against both of the other parties. Besides I'm in NY I could cast 1,000 votes and it would not make a difference in the out come of the election; Obama still wins NY.

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" I could cast 1,000 votes and it would not make a difference in the out come of the election; Obama still wins NY". Disheartening isn't it. Yeah, and just think, there are several other states that fall in that same category. And if we really wanna uncover voting "unfairness"/discrepancies, look no further than the Electoral College. I was amazed to read when and how that system was developed.

On a related note, regardless of a state's population, isn't it interesting that each state has 2 senators? And each of their votes have the same power as senators from states with huge populations such as New York and California.

While I am here, I might as well mention the debate. In my opinion, based on past presidential debates, they have little affect on voters, and thus, the overall election. George Bush (Sr & Jr) were terrible debaters. I believe late night's debate was just a war of rhetoric. And it gives the talking heads more to squawk about,

"look to the mega churches and you'll be able to answer your own question". Well Troy, I don't believe that's true. It may for others but not me. See, I was raised in the church. I have a long line of "preachers" in my family. Consequently, having sat in many pews for many hours, in several states, I was forced to discern truth from fake. I am suggesting that a good speaker -- under my guidelines -- has to not only have a command of the English language (i.e. vocabulary, enunciation), they have to convince me that what they are saying is true, or at least, they believe it;s true. Sometimes, that's accomplished with one's facial expressions in tandem with their words. Eyes have a hard time lying. Therefore, the mega-church ministers you've referred to, by and large, are off the table.

I think we can agree that Obama is limited by his position of POTUS.

.

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I think Obama, in addition to being limited by his position, is also limited by his temperament.

Oh now if you wanna add "...convince me that what they are saying is true." to the mix sure I'd personally take every mega church leader I've heard off my personal list. but trust me after seeing TD Jakes in action at his potters house; there are many thousands of people who would disagree with both of us.

The debate was interesting. Romney had an advantage in that he could simply say what he was going to do (the same thing Obama did 4 years ago). While Obama has to defend what actually happened on his watch. Obama's ability to say what he is going to do is tempered by what he has actually done. The grandiose claims of "hope and change" are muted . Mitt does not have that disadvantage.

At the end of the day people see what they want to see. A local New York City poll should more than 80 of the viewers said Obama won the debate last night. While a CNBC poll (picked randomly from a query I just ran), shows 65% think Romney won with 10% said neither.

Carey, in my opinion, last night's debate did more to help Romney than Obama.

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Troy, I believe it's safe to say last nights debate did "more" to help Romney than Obama, but what is that really saying? As you said, people see what they want to see. And seriously, are these "supposed" undecided voters really undecided? Who are these people that wait until the 11th hour to decide which candidate best suits their interests?

At this point of the game, what are they waiting for? If they don't know the issues and each candidates position, something doesn't smell right. I believe they just like the attention, or they just love being contrary. Then again, there could actually be those who are waiting for Romney to clearly state how he will actually do the things he has proposed.- which he has never clearly define. He's good at speaking in ambiguous terms.

And you are correct, Obama is saddled with the burden of defending the indefensible. Also, he seems to run from confrontation. On the other hand, Romney loves it. He becomes sort of like a bully. That plays well to a certain segment of society, especially imo, some racial segments of America. To that point, again, Obama has to walk a very thin line. It's safe to say some whites would love nothing more than to take the side of "the white man"... if you know what I mean. So Obama has to pick his fights wisely, which puts him at a disadvantage.

But I'll tell you what. I've always thought Obama was the wisest man in the field. He knows that he who laughs last, laughs best. In other words, Romney may have won this battle but humans have a short memory, or at least they remember the last things first. I'm not saying he was pulling a rope-a-dope, but he will not be as soft and defensive next time.

That reminds me, many thought he erred by not mentioning Romney's 47% remark. Well, I believe he knew Romney had practiced his response over and over again, so he kept that close to his vest. But watch, he'll come back and hit him when and where he least expects it. Watch, the president will ramp up his offense -- I hope :(

In the end, I still believe this is a done deal. Romney may have "won" this first debate, but he can't carry the states (those non-red/non-blue states) he needs to become president. His position on Medicare reform and his disconnect with the middle-class will be his demise.

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Troy, I meant to add that I believe in TD Jakes. He appears to be a honest man who actually believes in his convictions.. He may be in the elite group of mega-church preachers, however, unlike many of today's pulpit pimps, he is not a "prosperity" preacher in the sense that if you send him 100 dollars, you're promised 1000 back. If he speaks on prosperity, it's generally related to the rewards as defined in the Bible, not monetary rewards.

I probably watch his program at least 3 times each week. My lady is one of those so called "church folks". She loves to listen to TD Jakes, Joyce Meyers and Creflo Dollar.

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Serious discussion about a ludicrous situation. Obama looked preoccupied and his face stoic, his monotone a drone. It was his wedding anniversary and he was probably out of viagra and worried that he may not be able to do to his wife what the politicians are doing to the country. ;)

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In my dotage, when it comes to the presidential campaign, I feel as tho I've earned the luxury of sitting back being a spectator as opposed to a member of Obama's cheer-leading squad. And what a view it is observing reaction to the latest debate between the candidates.

It's almost like Street Lit sparking an interest in reading for those who had no previous interest in books. Suddenly every black person, including me, has become a political pundit. And we all have our theories about Obama's stilted demeanor during the debate. None I've heard have conceded that Obama showed evidence that, without a prompter, he failed at being able to think on his feet in response to Romney's vague claims and half-truths. Others prefer to describe him as cool and contemplative - as in "timid" and "sheepish". Baaaa.

Romney's performance, on the other hand, is being called "crisp" by his supporters. Crisp? As in fattening potato chips and diet-friendly celery? Bring on the cheese dip-shit for this waffler! I'm lovin it.

But not to worry. Brother Barack will win because, if we are to believe his millions of black disciples, God is on his side. And we slave descendant perennial victims of racism all know how much God luvs us niggas. Praise the lord. And Obama...

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Jesus help me!!! I can't stop laughing!

The debate thing is so...so...reality-tv-ish! President Obama's face reminded me of that look I've seen on a few coworkers who slipped their way into a position they knew they weren't ready for...and I've been in that situation once too, now that I think about it. That moment when you realize: Shit! I don't know what the eff I'm doing! I guess I'm fired.

Who knows how this will turn out. It sure is funny to watch though. I won't lie. I laughed at the highlights as if I were watching a comedy show. Felt like I got my money's worth out of this overly-priced satellite service I pay for each month.

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I was watching this show on the History Channel about the President's job & what it's like to walk in those shoes. Talks about a book of secrets and a secret letter from the old president to the new.

I feel bad for President Obama, even though I laughed the other day. He couldn't have known what he was getting himself into. We can only imagine just how effed up things really are. Just like he could only imagine...until after he was sworn into office. I wouldn't be surprised if he wanted to lose this election and just be done with this job and go back to his old life. Sad part is, once you're in, you're in. President's club til death.

I hope Obama's story ends well. He seems likeable enough and he's got daughters to raise. I doubt that he would have taken the job if he knew then what he knows now. Whatever that is.

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