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BLACK PEOPLE INTERPRETATION OF THE BIBLE//


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THERE  IS  CONFUSING  AMONG  BLACK PEOPLE  WITH THE  BIBLE..WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS/WHAT THE BIBLE DO NOT SAY//HOW,WHEN THEY  ARE  ALL READING THE SAME BIBLE  BOOK/BLACK PREACHERS   ARE NOT  DR.MARTIN LUTHER. KING/,THE  SPIRIT OF  DR.  KING IS NOT IN BLACK CHURCHES......REASON  THERE IS  CONFUSION////BLACK  RELIGIOUS  CONTROLLED  BY  PREACHERS  WHO  ARE  CONTROLLED BY POLITICIANS/BLACK  POLITICANS  CONTROLLED BY PREACHERS,MIGHT  EXPLAIN  HOW   MRGA CHURCHES  ARE BUILT,,POLITICIANS GIVING  PREACHERS  MONEY  NOT  THE COMMUNITY./////////////////DO   BIBLE READERS  REALLY  READ THE  BIBLE....//////.///

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Martin Luther King is a great historical figure, a courageous man of destiny.  But he was also an intellectual who used religion as a tool to advance his cause.  Like many iconic figures he was flawed, was a womanizer, liked his Scotch and smoked cigarettes. HIs cronies also report that he had a great sense of humor.  Which is what anybody who professes to be a man of god needs. 

 

These mega church ministers are false prophets and you won't likely  hear them quoting what the bible says about a  rich man having as much a chance of getting into heaven as a camel has going through the eye of a needle. Nobody is forcing their congregations to follow them.  Having a leader to assure them that Jesus is their savior is apparently all they require. 

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I attended a service at TD Jakes Church in Dallas a few years ago. I've been to a variety of churches in my life and I have never witnessed anything like this in my life.  The production quality (video, audio, lighting, pacing) was world class. 

 

The service contained a full blow gospel concert.  TD Jakes gave the "sermon" which was preceded by a commercial of a TV program that he was doing with Oprah (I believe).  I'm not sure if the program ever broadcast. 

 

By the end of the service the people next to me were in literally in tears.  I sat in the guest section which were actually the best seats in the house.  While I was not moved in the least I could very easily see why so many others were.

 

So, if an charismatic leader of a mega church, like TD Jakes, can give people who are hurting some hope and a reason to keep fighting; through song, a motivational speech and a few references to the Bible -- then good for him.  He deserves every penny he gets. 

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Much of the confusion Black people have about the Bible arises from the fact that most of them HAVEN'T READ IT.

If they'd take the time to actually open the book and read it for themselves instead of taking the preacher's word or the media's word on what it says then they would be able to make their own judgements concerning moral issues.

But politicians controlling preachers isn't a Black thing nor is it new, it's standard practice for Western civilization going back past the Mideval period, and even ancient Greece.

If you go all the way back to the foundations Hinduism you'll find that the Brahim (priests) controlled most of the society but they themselves were actually controled by the Kings.
They used religion to control the minds of the masses and keep order.

.....which isn't "necessarily" a bad thing.

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Pioneer1 for most of the history of Christianity the VAST majority of followers never read the bible. For the first 1,500 years there simply were not enough of the hand written tomes.  After the invention of the printing press the most people were still illiterate.  It was really in the last 150 years were individuals began read the book for themselves.

 

I'm sure all those illiterate Christians without access to physical Bible considered themselves true Christians.  Are you sure you actually HAVE TO READ IT.

 

Besides I've read parts of the Bible and I can't make heads or tails of it.  Maybe we need scholars to help us make understand it.  We know their are many inconsistencies in it a Biblical scholar really is needed explain books.   

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Troy

You don't have to actually read the Bible to be a Christian.
All you have to do is believe in Jesus. 

But one of the reasons the Bible doesn't seem to make much sense is because it's actually a collection of dozens of books written by dozens of authors who didn't know eachother over a period of nearly 1000 years......lol.

I actually did read the Bible from cover to cover and it's one of the reasons I first left the Church.
After studying the history of the Bible and how it was put together, I then left Christianity.


 

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I guess you also know that of some of the stories in the Bible are the same stores recorded thousands of years before and in several cultures.

 

Gilgamesh includes a flood story (Noah's story) and that was written two thousand years before the creation of the old testament.

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Troy

 

I guess you also know that of some of the stories in the Bible are the same stores recorded thousands of years before and in several cultures.

Gilgamesh includes a flood story (Noah's story) and that was written two thousand years before the creation of the old testament.

Ofcourse.....

Judaism is a mixture of Mosaic Laws and Persian paganism.

Christianity is Judaism mixed with ancient Greek and Roman paganism.

Even the name "Jesus" is actually "Ha Zeus" and it's actually pronouced that way in Spanish.

When I learned this, it eroded my confidence in Western religion in general.

But even though it was crafted by kings and priests to control people.....it still serves the purpose of maintaining order and civiility in society in a way legislation by itself could never do.

So I don't knock religion like some people do....I understand it has a purpose.

According from what I've gathered from the Bible and other sources the ancient Israelites actually WERE a branch of the ancient Sumerians who broke off and traveled Westward which explains why their religious history is so similar.

Many of the stories were passed along orally for thousands of years before they were actually written down but it's hard to nail down the source of things.

Prior to 75 years ago, many if not most people in America didn't even know their real birth date.....lol.

Imagine how things were thousands of years ago.

But a lack of confidence in religion doesn't necessarily have to translate into a lack of confidence in God.

 

 

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Why not?  Religion attempts to personify "god" as a means of explaining "him".  If you don't accept religion than you are left to your own devices to conceptualize this higher power and you have no way of knowing if you are "right".

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Cynique many people say the "know" and have the answer to the Higher Power question, the problem is their proving their answer to someone else -- especially if that person has a different answer.  Historically, attempts to do this have proven fatal :o

 

Pioneer is your belief in a higher power more akin to "mother nature", a omnipotent god entity in manipulating everything, or something else?

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Some food for thought.  More and more it is coming to my attention, that the hierarchy of many churchs are hip to the concept of religion and there are probably just as many agnostics among them as there are in the general population. 

 

Seems like the fire and brimstone variety of black preachers are the ones most likely to cling to the idea that  god is our father and we are his children who must obey him without question or we will go to hell where that devil lives.

 

 

 

http://youtu.be/5BkP9-HG8-I

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Cynique

 

 

Why not? Religion attempts to personify "god" as a means of explaining "him". If you don't accept religion than you are left to your own devices to conceptualize this higher power and you have no way of knowing if you are "right

.
Religion wasn't designed to explain God or "god".
It was designed to keep man in check and maintain peace and order in society.

That's why I said religion has it's proper uses, as long as it doesn't become too oppressive or abused by religious authority.
 

 


Whether a fire and brimstone Hell actually exists or not.....I do not know.
However I do believe there is some sort of punishment for exceedingly evil people who die.


I was talking to a friend the other day who is a nurse and she told me about a man who was dying and saw something in another realm that horrified him so much they could barely restrain him in his sick bed and then he died not too long afterward.




 

 



Troy
 


Pioneer is your belief in a higher power more akin to "mother nature", a omnipotent god entity in manipulating everything, or something else?
 


It's funny,
When I started studying other religions and ancient religions I found out the term "Mother Nature" actually came from the Egyptian "Metu Neter" as Neter was the ancient Egyptian word for "deity".

I believe in a Supreme Being who created the entire Universe.
I believe that Being is all powerful and all knowledgable.

I don't know for sure if God has a gender or not but out of habit I refer to God as "He" and I believe He CAN control and manipulate any and everything but He only controls some events while allowing other events to occur on their own.


I also believe in multiple spiritual worlds outside this one as well as an afterlife and ultimate Judgement.


Notice how I said I said I BELIEVE.....I didn't say I KNOW.
There is a clear difference.
But my beliefs are strong and based on personal experiences, personal observations, as well as research.

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Religion was designed to control the masses by explaining god in terms that "the great unwashed" could visualize since they had difficulty dealing with abstract ideas. This involved personifying him as a man instead of an unknown entity. You're "guilty" of doing this yourself. 

 

Moreover, you try and portray yourself as something other than an agnostic who thinks like millions of other people who describe themselves as spiritual.

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Cynique

 

 

 

Religion was designed to control the masses by explaining god in terms that "the great unwashed" could visualize since they had difficulty dealing with abstract ideas. This involved personifying him as a man instead of an unknown entity. You're "guilty" of doing this yourself.


A much more simplified explaination of most man-made religions would be systems designed to keep the population in check when the Laws no longer apply or the there aren't enough police available to enforce them.

But before you charge me as "guilty" for doing something, check and make sure if I'm actually wrong or not.
I said I didn't know for sure whether or not God has a gender,
And since you're not even sure about HIs existence.....neither do you.
So you're in no position to challenge my calling God "He".

 


 


Moreover, you try and portray yourself as something other than an agnostic who thinks like millions of other people who describe themselves as spiritual.


An agnostic is one who isn't sure about the existence of God one way or the other.
I'm SURE that a Creator and Supreme Being exists.
The Role that Supreme Being plays in the Universe I'm not entirely sure of....but of His existence I'm of no doubt.

I'm trying to figure out how can one be "spiritual" and yet still be atheist or agnostic.
Who in the world do you think CREATED the spirits and set everything in motion?
 

Are you reluctant to believe in a Supreme Being unless some goofy looking guy in glasses and a sport's jacket comes on television with his legs crossed and give you the OK?


 

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Your explanation isn't any more simple than mine, Pioneer, It's just different.  

 

It figures you're trying to figure out my statement about spirituality.  You can't get past any ideas but your own.  The individual is the immediate source of his own spirit and a spiritual approach  to life is an instinctive manisfestation of this, a matter of embracing one's own beliefs as opposed to the structured ones dictated by religion. Since you are so big on a supreme being who created everything, you might consider that this entity created people who think for themselves.  (I have no idea what your last paragraph is in reference to.)

 

We rarely reach common ground, Pioneer, but make no mistake about it, that on this subject, I find you as inconsistent and befuddled and subjective as you apparently find me.  And, as always, an undercurrent of  fear taints your remarks, - a fear  of not believing in "god" because you fear the consequences if you don't.  It's all about YOU. 

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Pioneer interesting.

 

Cynique, John Shelby Spong's video (I someone I never heard of previous), completely describes my view on religion -- though he articulates for better than I ever could.  For one reason he seems to come from a position of compassion -- something I can learn more about.

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Cynique

 

Your explanation isn't any more simple than mine, Pioneer, It's just different.

My explanation of religion is not only different and more simple, but more acurate...lol.

Most religions around the world consist or moral codes, rituals revolving around higiene and sexuality/marriage, violence, male and female roles, ect.

Few religions actually try to address the very nature of the Almighty as they believe He is too complicated to explain in any great detail.

 

It figures you're trying to figure out my statement about spirituality. You can't get past any ideas but your own. The individual is the immediate source of his own spirit and a spiritual approach to life is an instinctive manisfestation of this, a matter of embracing one's own beliefs as opposed to the structured ones dictated by religion.

 

Don't confuse not being able to get past YOUR convoluted and oft-times confused ideas.. with not being able to get past ANY ideas.....lol.

Whether your theory of the origin of one's spirit is true or false, I know not.

However I must admit, I'm having a hard time trying to figure out how one who isn't even conscious during the time they are brought into existence can manage to create a spirit for themselves.

 

 

 

Since you are so big on a supreme being who created everything, you might consider that this entity created people who think for themselves.

I do believe God grants man a measure of free will.

Fear of God and Divine punishment is certainly a factor in my beliefs as it should be in the hearts of all men (and women).

It keeps me constantly aware of my behavior and it's consequences in this world and the next.

 

 

 

We rarely reach common ground, Pioneer, but make no mistake about it, that on this subject, I find you as inconsistent and befuddled and subjective as you apparently find me. And, as always, an undercurrent of fear taints your remarks, - a fear of not believing in "god" because you fear the consequences if you don't. It's all about YOU.

Some would argue that to even use the word "rarely" is a stretch....lol

But when a person starts off a statement with "we rarely reach common ground"....it's usually followed by an indication that common ground has been met...lol.

You seem to break the rules of conversational conduct almost as often as you break the rules of logic.

BTW...Mr Spong's statement about hell being an "invention of the Church" is an inaccurate one.

Musims, Hindus, most Buddhists, and many other religions believe in a place of punishment after physical death and many believed in these before Christianity was even invented.

Most Hindus and Buddhists believe in multiple "hells" for punishment.

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It ain't my fault if you can't figure things out, Dummy. Spontaneity and serendipity and ephiphany all factor in the the self discovery process that spawns the spirit that is the unique essence of the individual. In the words of Descartes: "Cogito ergo sum." I think therefore I am.

 

The problem with you, Pioneer is that you not only believe in god but you believe you're his surrogate. Everything that you approve of and agree with is uttered with the deluded authority that you are voicing god's thoughts and wishes.You think your concepts of morality and pseudo science and psycho babble are god inspired. It apparently doesn't occur to you that you dont know any more about god than anyone else. I don't think you can bring yourself to deal with the idea that you may have it all wrong.

 

The fallen angel, referred to as Lucifer in the scriptures, is who rules over the place referred to as "hell" in the Western church tradition.

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Pioneer Sprong never said that hell was an "invention of the church".  The question was posed by the interviewer Sprong's response was, "...the Church fired their furnaces hotter than anybody else."  

 

More on reading the bible.  My grandfather was a baptist minister for much of his life.  He was illiterate.  Again the whole idea of people actually reading and studying the bible is relatively new. 

 

Also how can you can study the bible and at the same time eschew everything else that is not the bible -- this seems ludicrous to me.  But this is a tactic many Christians employ, since everything not the bible is a lie, or the work of the Devil.  How can you "study" anything in isolation, without consider opposing view points?

 

I like the quote, "Maybe salvation needs to me conveyed in terms of enhancing your humanity rather than rescuing you from it".  If we could manage to do that we would spend zero time hating gay people, white people, or people of other religions.

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Fred Sanford Cynique

 

It ain't my fault if you can't figure things out, Dummy. Spontaneity and serendipity and ephiphany all factor in the the self discovery process that spawns the spirit that is the unique essence of the individual. In the words of Descartes: "Cogito ergo sum." I think therefore I am.


That's the problem with your little theory of the origins of the spirit."
You think it's a matter of "thought" or "self realization.

The soul of a human being exists regardless of their level of spiritual development.


 


The problem with you, Pioneer is that you not only believe in god but you believe you're his surrogate. Everything that you approve of and agree with is uttered with the deluded authority that you are voicing god's thoughts and wishes.You think your concepts of morality and pseudo science and psycho babble are god inspired. It apparently doesn't occur to you that you dont know any more about god than anyone else. I don't think you can bring yourself to deal with the idea that you may have it all wrong.


And the problem with you, Cynique.....is that your cranky ass should take a nap before you post, lol.

I haven't said any of the garbage you just  attributed to me, it's more of your projections and misinterpretations.



 

 

 


Troy

 

 


Also how can you can study the bible and at the same time eschew everything else that is not the bible -- this seems ludicrous to me. But this is a tactic many Christians employ, since everything not the bible is a lie, or the work of the Devil. How can you "study" anything in isolation, without consider opposing view points?


2 Reasons...........

1. Exposure

The United States and most of the Western Hemisphere for that matter gives most people only 2 choices in religion.  Be a Christian or be secular.2
Outside of Judaism (which doesn't propagate) most Americans aren't exposed to other religion material with which to compare it to the Bible.

This material is certainly available in most libraries or on the internet, but unless they are a scholar most people aren't going to go in depth to compare religious scriptures....most learn new things through social settings.



2. Emotional attachment.

Most Christians believe that the Bible is from God, therefor they don't see the need to "prove" it against other material. They are also afraid that if they find other material more attractive that it may pull them away from their faith so they avoid even considering it.

It's like a married man who says he loves his wife and she's the only one for him.

Would you ask him to prove it by sleeping with and trying to form emotional relationships with other women in order to TEST his love and PROVE that his wife really is the only one for him....lol?

Now that's actually a logical way of proving how much you love your spouse and testing to see if they are indeed the only one for you to love.
But because of the emotional attachments to eachother, as well as the unintended consequences it may bring (like finding out that your spouse really ISN'T the only one for you) very few people are confident enough to put their relationship to a test like that.

 

 

It's the same with the Bible.
Most Christians are too emotionally attached to it to experiment and compare it with other scriptures and asking them to do so would be like asking a person to have extramarital affairs to test their own marriage.



 

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Surely you are not denying that you believe "god" is the source of everything, Pioneer.   When it comes to the concept of morality, you take on the role of someone's whose opinions and assertions about it are "infallible", - as in "divine".  :rolleyes:   

 

You find me cranky?  That's funny. I find you insufferably amusing because you are so self-important. You remind me of the tale of the deluded emperor who paraded around naked, believing he was dressed in fine new robes.  None of his lackeys told him he was actually nude because they didn't want to get in trouble their "fearless leader".  :o

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Cynique

 

 

 

Surely you are not denying that you believe "god" is the source of everything, Pioneer

 

Well, in order for me to confirm or deny you would first have to stop thinking about me naked, lol.
Then clarify (as best as YOU can....) what you mean by this "god" you're constantly displaying with a lower case "g" and in quotations.

Because my God and your "god" may quite possibly be 2 separate E/entities.

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I don't respond to incomplete quotes.  And I really couldn't care less about what rationale you'll come up with to justify your fuzzy thinking.

 

You naked?  As usual,  "amusing" is the word that comes to mind.  No, wait. "Hilarious".  

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