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Is an economic system entrenched with white racism directly responsible for black American dysfunction in 2016?


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Bro Troy stated:But I will not blame the victims for the root cause of the problem, which stems from an economic system entrenched with white racism.

Really? And that’s the problem. Instead of holding people accountable for their personal poor decisions making and the consequences of those poor decisions –you will give them a free pass and blame their reckless self-destructive behavior on history and past grievances. Trust me –I am more than aware of the historical injustices and race based violence that black people in America labored under. But the uber dysfunction and hyper-violence that is pandemic with Negroes today has nothing to do with slavery, segregation or racism. Such an assertion (“white racism and an economic system entrenched with white racism”) contradicts both history and facts. You are putting the cart before the horse bro Troy.

I want to say this first –yes there is racism against black people (the current POTUS is a perfect example) and yes there is such a thing as racial profiling, discrimination in housing, employment and in the justice system. This particular condition is not in dispute. It is not the “existence” but the degree to which it exists and the definitive impact it has Negroes. This is where you and I disagree. If an “economic system entrenched with white racism” is the direct cause of all the violence, illegitimacy, coonery and buffoonery that is common in black America today, you have to explain why widespread (legal) racial violence, total segregation, minimal access to American political and economic institutions, Jim Crow laws, fettered education,  illiteracy, exclusion of blacks from state and federal jobs, quotas and restrictions of job classifications in the military (e.g. cooks and manual laborers only) and virtually no judicial redress, let’s say 100 years ago –did not reduce black people to what you see today.

You have to explain why the Moynihan Report in 1965 (more than 50 years ago!) attempted to sound the warning siren about a projected black illegitimacy rate of 25%. Yet today, the black illegitimacy rate it is estimated to be over 70%! Let’s go back further. Did you know data from U.S. Census reports reveals that between 1880 and 1960, married households consisting of two-parent homes were the most widespread form (vice single female today) of black American family structures? For example, a study of 1880 family structures in Philadelphia showed that three-fourths of black families were nuclear families, composed of two parents and children. In your beloved New York City, in 1925, 85% of kin-related black households had two parents! How is this possible when virulent racism, job and housing discrimination and extreme race violence (the norm) was exponentially worse than what it is today?

You suggested the abysmal state of American Negroes in 2016 is the result of poverty. Well, you have to explain why black communities of more than 50 years did not endure the level of violence and senseless homicides that is so common today. The overall poverty level of black Americans has greatly declined when you compare it to what it was 100 years ago. In fact, 50 years ago, in 1966, 41.8 percent of black Americans were in poverty. By 2012, the poverty among black Americans had fallen to 27.2% (yes -still more than double the rate among whites!).  My point is this -the current state and total collapse of the black two-parent home would have been inconceivable to black people 100 years ago! The rate of poverty among black Americans 100 years ago was staggering when compared today. The ongoing siege of black communities by street gangs, thugs and the mindless violence today -would floor black Americans of 100 years ago. But according to you, the current pathology of black America is the direct result of poverty and racism when 100 years ago the poverty and racism black people endured was ten fold worse! Yet black people did not suffer the crushing exigent dysfunction and intra-group violence as Negroes in 2016. WHY? I will wait for your response……




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Yes I'm familiar with all of these points.  And I stand by the statement.  

First, my statement does not suggest that people should not be accountable for their behavior that was a conclusion of "Saraian" proportions.  

To clarify further:  We all should all be held accountable for our behavior. Where we differ perhaps is who to blame for our predicament.  If you know our history in the country, you know the vast majority of the time we have been here we were either enslaved or living under legalized apartheid, which did not end until the 1950's!  Needless to say the racism still continues -- but even if it was wiped out completely when Jim Crow ended, who would think a people would reverse 100's of years of oppressions in less than a lifetime.

We have to fight racism AND be accountable for our behavior.  Dealing with only one of these problems will end in failure.

100 years ago we were compelled to depend on each other for survival.  I believe it was for this reason we were able to build communities like Black Wall Street in Tulsa.  Today those of means would rather live in a white neighborhood.

Today we depend upon the government.  If you are familiar with the Moynihan (Moynihan graduated from my neighborhood high school) Report, you are also aware of the discussion around social programs that were put place and worsened conditions in urban centers by creating incentives for dysfunctional behavior.  For example, to get government assistance you could not have a man in the house.  The film Claudine, illustrates this brilliantly. The more kids you had the bigger the check.

100 years ago we educated our own children--because we had too. We created great institutions of higher education.  Today those very same institutions struggle for survival.  Why?  Because our best, brightest, and most financially well off rather go to white schools, ghettoizing HBCU's

I have a the same question for you @Xeon:

Why do you think Black folks 100 years ago did not suffer the crushing exigent dysfunction and intra-group violence as Negroes in 2016?

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Is an economic system entrenched with white racism directly responsible for black American dysfunction in 2016?

The answer seems to be advertised in the very question itself.

If the system is ENTRENCHED with White racism.....
Then regardless of whether it's 2016, 1916, or 1816......the system will still produce a state of dysfunction or malfunction for it's Black victims.

It's like picking up a loaded revolver hand-gun from the Civil War era and waving it around at people saying, "Relax...it's 2016 not 1864 !"

But I must admit that I do find it quit sad  
:( that neither of you mentioned the impact lead poisoning is having and has had on Black urban communities and how that just may be the key to understanding much of the crime, dysfunction, and academic issues.

I mean, there is a clear link between lead poisoning and social dysfunction.
And people (most of whom are Black) living in urban areas show high levels of lead in their blood.

Should we really be looking any further?

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Damn I never expected the word Saraian to be a thing! LOL!

I thought I posted my thoughts on the other post about Flint and Lead Poisoning. The reason I don't think this theory can be proven throughout the country is based on my living experiences in LA, San Diego and now back in Memphis. Let's take Memphis. We have one of the highest murder rates in the country and crime rates. We are also one of the Blackest cities in the country. We have people in power positions throughout Memphis, so a lot of the racism and classism that exists in other places is just not the same in Memphis. Now, one of the most crime filled areas in Memphis is an area named Hickory Hill. According to your theory part of the reason that this area could possibly have such a poor school system and crime is that it could potentially have lead poisoning.

The only way what you are saying makes sense is if you are only analyzing Flint. Only Flint... because just looking at what I'm about to write disproves your theory in relation to a majority Black city with high crime in a particular area.

Hickory Hill up until about 20 years ago was primarily White. There aren't many apartment complexes. There are single family homes. Around 20 years ago Memphis began getting rid of the projects. Interestingly enough crime was much lower in the projects than it is in Hickory Hill. The murder rate and crime doesn't even compare in some instances. Once the projects began shutting down the housing in this area turned into section 8 rentals and the condos/townhomes also became section 8. According to your logic, this should have decreased some of the problems over the last 20 years since lead poisoning takes time to manifest. Since the people no longer lived in the projects in 20 years the way of life should have improved and violence should have decreased... this has not happened. It has increased. This year alone only two months in and we've had 34 murders.

Now I can look at San Diego where the Blacks are pretty much concentrated to Southeast San Diego, but so are all of the minorities and immigrants for the last 30+ years. Crime and violence is higher in Bario Logan and south near the border at Chula Vista because you have a lot of the cartels and gangs coming from Tijuana. I mention this to say again that unless you are only talking about Flint, crime and violence in San Diego has very little to do with the possibility of lead poisoning and more to do with the fact that in Southeast San Diego there is a corner called the 4 corners of death where a Blood street intersects with a Crip street. Remember though I said there is a huge immigrant populations and the Africans (Sudanese, Ethiopian, Congo, etc) are some of the highest performing kids in the district. Even the Black kids who are in the gangs overcome their surroundings in many cases.

I know these are isolated introductions, but my point is if you said South Memphis has a lot of factories and therefore a lot of kids have asthma and this leads to health issues and potentially other issues, then yes I can definitely agree with you... but I grew up in the hood and many of the people I know did as well. We didn't see any killing and violence until the Reagan Era and Crack and gangs came into play. I tend to blame the problems of Blacks in American on the time following the death of Dr. King and the introduction of crack. All of the problems of Black America can really be tied to that moment in time. 1970-88. The lead poisoning is just an additional hurdle.


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Perhaps....I made the mistake a lot of environmentalists do when discussing global warming.

It focused people too much on "warming" which allowed skeptics to poke too many holes in their theory, especially in the winter.  But when they started calling it  "climate change",  people understand their arguments better.

So, perhaps I should correctly say HEAVY METAL poisoning rather than focusing on lead.

And it should also be pointed out that heavy metal poisoning includes problems that come from not only the lead in most urban water supplies but also the mercury from vaccines and the paint in old apartments and houses in the inner cities.

As far as your examples of those living in the same areas and not affected......

We know lead CAUSES excessive violence and poor academic performance in the same way the smoking CAUSES lung cancer.

Meaning, just as every single person who smokes doesn't get lung cancer, it seems to target those who are more suseptable to it.....
We also know that every single person exposed to lead and other heavy metals aren't severely affected by it, but those who are suseptable are.

It should also be pointed out that poor nutrition increases the negative effects of heavy metal poisoning because there are certain nutrients  and vitamins that if the body is deficient in them the body confuses the lead and mercury molecule for these vitamins and absorbs them.

Most immigrants don't share the same poor diet as AfroAmericans in a given community, nor do most of them consume the alcohol and drugs that so many AfroAmericans in the innercity consume.
All of this has an effect on not only the differences in behavior itself but the suseptability of these various groups.

I used to live in the West Coast. I even stayed in San Diego briefly (only a few weeks) and used to ride that Orange Line trolley through South East "Deigo"...lol.
Mexican gangs on the West Coast are MORE violent than the Black gangs are, the media just doesn't focus on them as much because of an agenda.
It's the same in Phoenix and Chicago....the Latino gangs are just as if not more violent, but the media gives them a pass.

And quite frankly, Black people tend to be too hard on themselves when it comes to self-critique. As much killing....slaughtering...as is going on in the Middle East and Latin America you rarely hear Latinos and Arabs berating themselves for "killing eachother" as much as AfroAmericans.

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Right, but my main point is for this to be happening it isn't just a Black thing. It's a human thing that affects all of us, because unless these areas with Heavy metal poisoning have a valve that can be shut on and off, white flight is a real thing. Most of the areas where Blacks live, Whites used to live, so your theory is flawed simply based on the fact that many of the places Blacks lived, whites now live through gentrification. If your theory is correct there should be a heavy spike in violence and health issues in the White community now by default.

I'm not saying the poisoning doesn't happen. I'm just not accepting the idea of the increase of violence in the Black community is a metal issue. If I have to do a correalative essay to begin to analyze the years from 1970-86 and how this is the era that literally created the problems today I just might do that and if you'd like to add to that discussion with an analysis on Heavy metal as a contributor, then I will nod my head when I'm reading it and say "yep". Right now even if I googled it, it's a suspect theory and your comments about the gangs in Dago proves my point. For an area from Southeast Dago to Sweetwater and Bario Logan down to the Border to be affected enough to have Latinos, Asians and Blacks killing each other, that would be amazing considering the amount of area that would cover and the fact that it would have to avoid high scale Latino neighbhorhoods like Eastlake and Lemon Grove.

I guess I'm not arguing with you...I'm only saying I place the real emphasis on choices and decisions made by people and the crack epidemic and post Vietnam issues of Black America.

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Not to turn the discussion but I just saw this and thought of this discussion: http://news.yahoo.com/exposure-air-pollution-could-increase-risk-obesity-112047443.html

My first thought was this is kind of a support system for your discussion, but what it fails to do is to consider that Mississippi is one of the most unhealthiest states in the country, but as far as air pollution it's almost non-existent. This article does what I think you've done. You've given a theory that has legs, but is just hard to conceptualize for me.

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Women, with a better than a high school education, are this site's largest demographic.  

Opinionated adjective: (1) conceitedly assertive and dogmatic in one's opinions. (2) having and expressing very strong ideas and opinions about things

As far as opinionated I guess it depends upon the way you are using the word.   I tend to find you often more characteristic of the first definition.  This is based upon our interactions,  For example, when you asserted Black girls are the largest demographic of college students (factually inaccurate), and was presented with a simple question which would make the truth plain, you resorted to Sarainistic replies, rather than simply conceding you made a mistake.

Now it is great to have strong ideas and opinions, as in the second definition of the word--in fact this forum would be boring without people who have them. Of course you fall into this category as well.  But often there is a thin line between strong opinion and dogmatism.  I guess from time to time we are all guilty of it; but rarely does one who is called on it back up and say, "you know you are right, I need to rethink my position."  Instead they generally dig their heels in deeper--which defeats the biggest benefit participating in these forums growing by learning from other.



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