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TYLER PERRY,LAST HOURS OF JESUS CHRIST/

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MOVIE MAKER   TYLER   PERRY    WILL  NARRATE   A  PLAY  ABOUT  JESUS  CHRIST  LAST HOURS,ON   FOX TV   CHANNEL  NEXT    MONTH/I READ/TYLER  PERRY  BEING    BLACK,INTERESTING  TO  SEE  WHAT  COLOR   JESUS  CHRIST  WILL  BE//.SINCE  SOME  BLACK  ACTORS  AND  SPIKE  LEE ,BOYCOTTING    THE  ACADEMY   AWARDS////BIBLE   DOES   NOT   SAY  COLOR  OF CHRIST/CAN   BLACK  MOVIE   MAKERS   MAKE     MOVIES   ABOUT  BIBLE     WITH BLACK  ACTORS/I  SAW  ON TMC  ,TURNER  MOVE  CLASSICS     LAST YEAR  A MOVIE  MADE    IN THE   1940'S   ,A BLACK  MOVIE  ABOUT  THE  BIBLE   ,WITH BLACK  ACTORS,,GOD   WAS BLACK,NOAH  WAS BLACK,ANGELS  WERE BLACK, MOVIE  MIGHT BE  CALLED   GREEN PASTURES,    WROTE     NAME   OF MOVIE  DOWN,I  LOST   THE  PAPER I  WROTE  IT OWN//BILL  BOJANGLES  ROBINSON,MIGHT   BE IN IT////

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My views about this subject has changed so much over the years...

I've went from believing that Jesus was White as a child, to believing he was Black, to now questioning whether he even existed AT ALL.

From the research I've done on religion, religious scripture, and the history of the Middle East; it's becoming apparent that much of what the Bible has to say about history BEFORE the Babylonian Exile period (about 500 B.C.) is complete fabrication.

If I'm ever blessed to start my own school, one of the thing I will NOT teach is history beyond the 20th century.  Because most of it can't be proven.  The best most of us can do is just gather evidence and weigh it to make a determination of what really happened.

A solid education starts with a firm foundation of FACTS, and you can't establish something as FACT if you can't prove it.

 

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The LAND of what is called the "Middle East" covers both Asia, Africa, and in some cases Europe (Turkey, Armenia).
And the original inhabitants of the land refered to as the the "Middle East" was occupied by dark skinned people whom we would call African or East Indian today.

However much of the history of that land involves Caucasians who came down from central Asia and occupied much of the land, mixed in with the original inhabitants, introduced their own systems and cultures, and fused their own religious beliefs with the beliefs of the original inhabitants.
So it's not as cut and dry as saying, "The Egyptians were Black" or "The Israelites were African".

It's very mixed and complicated.

Africans are indeed spiritual people, but I doubt that the keys to that spirituality will ever be found in such a man-made and flawed book as the Bible.

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17 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said:


The LAND of what is called the "Middle East" covers both Asia, Africa, and in some cases Europe (Turkey, Armenia).
And the original inhabitants of the land refered to as the the "Middle East" was occupied by dark skinned people whom we would call African or East Indian today.

However much of the history of that land involves Caucasians who came down from central Asia and occupied much of the land, mixed in with the original inhabitants, introduced their own systems and cultures, and fused their own religious beliefs with the beliefs of the original inhabitants.
So it's not as cut and dry as saying, "The Egyptians were Black" or "The Israelites were African".

It's very mixed and complicated.

Africans are indeed spiritual people, but I doubt that the keys to that spirituality will ever be found in such a man-made and flawed book as the Bible

I appreciate your brevity, Pioneer. Revisionist history is a bitch. LOL

My observations take the form of a question. As a hybrid crop, deeply rooted in American soil for the last 400 years, why do Black Americans need a make-shift African heritage? What has Afrocentrism done for Black Americans lately?  How does it improve their day-to-day lives? Will it banish racism or dissipate white privilege? Will it provide jobs and good schools, or prevent the hazards of driving while black, or shooting while driving? Will it rehabilitate an addiction to the Social Media? Or energize prayers directed to an indifferent Jesus? Or does it just provide a hypenated label, and showcase those who change their names or parade around wearing "made in China" African garb or conduct classes that provide easy A's at community colleges? Yeah, yeah, yeah, "we" need to know who "we" are, and where "we" came from so "we" can take pride in what? How the slick Europeans outfoxed guileless Africans and stole all of their resources and culture. Knowledge is power but the truth is the light and it now exposes a dark continent rife with wars and disease and poverty. History is in the realm of enlightenment, but there's a difference between studying it and adopting it. between romanticizing it and putting it in perspective. 

Black Americans don't need a second-hand heritage. They have their own unique culture and rich negro history indigenous to their tenure in this country. They have the underground railroad and the civil rights movement, Nat Turner and Martin Luther King,  Carter Woodson and Cornel West, Black Wall Street and the Harlem Renaissance , the Buffalo soldiers and Tuskegee airman, Zora and Maya, Jazz and Rap,  HBCU scholars and NBA stars, and much much more. And it's not as if ebony Nigerians or tawny Egyptians offer more than a passing nod to the step children of Mother Africa 
 
As Negro history month draws to a close,  its a good time to appreciate the uniqueness of America's black experience as opposed to the aggrandization of Africa's influence.

 

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Cynique

What you said is the reason no longer call myself a "Pan African".
I don't necessarily hold African culture as ideal or superior to the one we as AfroAmericans are practicing in America today. Infact, we were practicing it WHEN Europeans who had a more technologically advanced weaponry were able to come in and enslave and colonize our people.
So going back to that SAME system would be a mistake.

We should constantly seek to go forward and look for ways to improve ourselves individually and as a community in terms of technology, language, medicine, spirituality, ect...

We can use the past as a REFERENCE, but the constant glorification of African culture and African history (much of which is unproven) that so many of our people are engulfed in is in my opinion a waste of valuable time and energy.

Besides, most Africans don't accept us as authentically African anyway....lol.
We are Americans (including the Blacks of Central and South America) and should use our opportunity in America to advance our cause and possibly HELP Africa to solve some of it's many ills....while solving our own.

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I believe we are one race.  We are all descended from one male (y-chromosomal Adam) and one woman (Mitochondrial Eve), and are therefore family.  It would be nice if we looked out for each other they was a family would, but we have to operate in the real world...

That said, the issue I would take with your perspective Cynique, is that it is unnecessarily limiting.  Why should Black culture be defined by what happened in the last 150 years?  We know from our cuisine, our way of practicing religion, our speech, music, and a whole host of other things are influenced by Africa.  Everything was not striped from us, indeed it is part of our core being.

Part of the reason some embrace a so called "Afrocentric" perspective is that we see where the European perspective mindset has gotten us, hundreds of years of enslavement and 2nd class citizenship.  People--even white folks-- are desperate for something different, something that would them better.

Pioneer, any African that would fail to embrace an African-American as his Brother is simply a victim of the same colonial mindset we are.  Pan-Africanism is better than the fractured, powerless, state we are in today. "Pan worldism" would serve humanity better, but I'm happy to go one step at a time.

Oh, the middle east, is clearly on the African continent.  Mesopotamia, Egypt, the birth place of Christ, and the Great Pyramids are all in north east Africa.

 

 

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55 minutes ago, Troy said:

 

That said, the issue I would take with your perspective Cynique, is that it is unnecessarily limiting.  Why should Black culture be defined by what happened in the last 150 years?  We know from our cuisine, our way of practicing religion, our speech, music, and a whole host of other things are influenced by Africa.  Everything was not striped from us, indeed it is part of our core being

Why shouldn't black American culture be defined by  our time in after slavery?? That's the period when our unique culture came into being  And our worship and speech and music are as different from Africa as they are alike. Our cuisine is certainly incompatiable with Africans.  Which is why there is such a high rate of diabetes and lactose intolerance and hypertension  among American blacks. And altho you continue to insist that we are all alike. Externally we are not.  Even African tribes  are very distinguishable from each other, ranging from Pygmies to Watusis  from the blue-blacks to the amber browns, not to mention their different customs and language and  predispositions. Nigeria, which is where the bulk of slaves came from have little in common with Zulus.  Caucasians also different from each other in physical traits. Scandinavians look nothing like Italians. Asians are distinctly different from Blacks.  And  nobody said that everything was stripped from us but you choose  to ignore the effects of white rape in the  slave quarters. You talk as if we are not all mixed up. Who is to say what our core being is?  You want to put all people of color in one box.  Knock yourself out.   

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57 minutes ago, Cynique said:

You talk as if we are not all mixed up. Who is to say what our core being is?

I really like this perspective too!

It forces us to all deal with the dynamics of who we are now... while my mtDNA is said to be the same as the present day North Africans ...my paternal lineage,  the climate, isolation and a whole host of environmental contributors might make it extremely difficult for me to survive in East Africa today (where my maternal line is said to have its origins.)  What is true for me - is true for the rest  of the hyphen-Americans . We North Americans are a new breed.  And despite the color of our skin we  are as unique to the gene pool as was the first ascendant of the woman who left Africa to  set up shop in what is now called Europe and Asia.


Keep pushing us out of comfort zone @Cynique ... I may not like it but it is so very necessary...

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@Cynique, I'm not saying Black American's should NOT be defined by our time enslaved here in America.  I saying we should not be defined SOLELY by our enslavement.  Our culture is informed so much more. 

Our collective propensity to diabetes and hypertension has more to do with our food supply and lifestyles than our cuisine.  And of course some African people are not lactose intolerant as this has to do with genetic traits that have nothing to do with what we look like.

If you want to put people into boxes because of physical characteristics; have at it, you'll be busy for a very long time. You should also appreciate the boxes you create are purely arbitrary and have nothing to do with science.

Yes, I do want to put all people in one box, because technically we are in one box, the human box.  

Any differences in treatment we chose to apply to each other because of differences in physical characteristics are also done so subjectively.

It would be like saying all left handed people are inferior because they are left handed, all men with red hair are inherently more evil, all slender men are smarter, etc. All of this would be considered dumb, because it is.  

Also you can't reasonably use Nigeria to define a group of people.  Nigeria was made up by europeans; the boundaries they created has little to do with the people who lived there before Europeans carved it up.  

@Mel keep in mind that your mtDNA only tracks your mother's, mother's, Mother's, Mothers,  After 9 generation we are talking about a single ancestor out of 1,024 who contributed to who you are.  In other words you know less that 0.001% of you ancestry based upon that ancestor's mtDNA. 

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14 minutes ago, Troy said:

keep in mind that your mtDNA only tracks your mother's, mother's, Mother's, Mothers,  After 9 generation we are talking about a single ancestor out of 1,024 who contributed to who you are.  In other words you know less that 0.001% of you ancestry based upon that ancestor's mtDNA.

Agreed. Kinda. The mtDNA  doesn't change (my particular mitochondrial DNA's haplogroup  is estimated to be about 84,000 to 104,000 years old and now my daughters have it...) Still I have adapted to the conditions of being a North American... 

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Hi Mel, I'm not sure what there is to disagree about.  I'm also not sure what you mean by adapting to conditions of North America.  If you mean genetically, we have not been here long enough for any genetic adaptation to have taken place.  

Would you believe after making my last post here, someone sent me an email about a movie they made discussing race: The Myth of Race and the Evolution of Skin Color.

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What?! Sara and I agree on something out the box :)  Well almost. Keep in mind humans did not evolve until about 200,00 years ago.  So no one was Black "millions of years" before anything.

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1 hour ago, Troy said:

@Cynique, I'm not saying Black American's should NOT be defined by our time enslaved here in America.  I saying we should not be defined SOLELY by our enslavement.  Our culture is informed so much more and 

Our unique culture is a manifestation of the unique period during which it came about. There is no way to know whether it mirrors what came before

Our collective propensity to diabetes and hypertension has more to do with our food supply and lifestyles than our cuisine.  And of course some African people are not lactose intolerant as this has to do with genetic traits that have nothing to do with what we look like.

Our cuisine dates back to dishes created from scraps, and this soul food cuisine so widely consumed is not healthy for the people who concocted it.

If you want to put people into boxes because of physical characteristics; have at it, you'll be busy for a very  long time. You should also appreciate the boxes you create are purely arbitrary and have nothing to do with science.

  I'm assuming you are implying that  classifying groups allowed those in control to relegate other cultures to being inferior.  But this doesn't negate the fact that tribes look different from each other and it is not unreasonable to conclude that their physical characteristics influenced how they reacted to their encounters with others.  I have one word to inject here: Xenophobia, a primitive survival mechanism that is wired into the brain of humans. 

Any differences in treatment we chose to apply to each other because of differences in physical characteristics are also done so subjectively.It would be like saying all left handed people are inferior because they are left handed, all men with red hair are inherently more evil, all slender men are smarter, etc. All of this would be considered dumb, because it is. 

A dislike for the unlike is a fact of life.

Also you can't reasonably use Nigeria to define a group of people.  Nigeria was made up by europeans; the boundaries they created has little to do with the people who lived there before Europeans carved it up.

What do we use to define a group of people? Irrelevant information? 

 

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48 minutes ago, Troy said:

Hi Mel, I'm not sure what there is to disagree about.

Not sure, it seemed as if you were saying the mtDNA is different. My mtDNA is the same as the first "mother" in my maternal line. The mtDNA doesn't mutate except through migration. 

 I'm also not sure what you mean by adapting to conditions of North America.  If you mean genetically, we have not been here long enough for any genetic adaptation to have taken place.  

I realize that I got this information from an epidemologist I sat next to on one of my flights - however there evidence available (scientific journals) that show we have. For example, None of us could return to Africa without a malaria vaccination but our brothers and sisters in certain parts of Africa are immune... however there are many from Africa who could come to the U.S. and get deathly ill from things that we literally sneeze at. 

Would you believe after making my last post here, someone sent me an email about a movie they made discussing race: The Myth of Race and the Evolution of Skin Color.

As for email lurker... 

Join in filmmaker! The water is fine! 

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Sara, you make my point Homo Habilis and Homo Sapiens are different species.  If you trying to suggest that these creatures could be called Black or white does not make sense.  They are classified as a difference species because we can not interbreed with them.

Cynique, while there is no way of "knowing," which cultural influences there are many clues.  Indeed people who study this stuff make pretty convincing arguments. Some suggest, for example, that we can trace aspects of Jazz and gospel music back to Africa.

If I used you argument, about bad food creating obesity the one would expect these rates to go down, nit that our food is "better."  Also staples like Okra is not all about scraps and did not originate in America it came directly from Africa.

While Xenophobia, may be "hardwired" human have the unique ability to behave in ways that may conflict with a genetic predispositions.  So while I may fear people who look different than me, I can use reason and not be afraid of those you are different.  Using your logic I should be afraid of 1/2 my family, including my mother who is light skinned.  Again humanity has evolved beyond these primitive instincts.  

You can use culture to define a group of people in the case of Nigeria you be better our categorizing group in terms of being Hausa, Fulani, Igbo or Yoruba.  Of curse these groups which are much older and have nothing to do with the boundaries of Nigeria.

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9 hours ago, Troy said:

If I used you argument, about bad food creating obesity the one would expect these rates to go down, nit that our food is "better."  Also staples like Okra is not all about scraps and did not originate in America it came directly from Africa.

While Xenophobia, may be "hardwired" human have the unique ability to behave in ways that may conflict with a genetic predispositions.  So while I may fear people who look different than me, I can use reason and not be afraid of those you are different.  Using your logic I should be afraid of 1/2 my family, including my mother who is light skinned.  Again humanity has evolved beyond these primitive instincts.  

I didn't say anything about obesity.  White people got okra from us? I wouldn't know, since I hate it, which I guess tarnishes my African credentials. 

BTW there is a new field of medicine that is using ethnicity as a marker in determining whether to administer traditional or specialized  treatment for diseases. And of course Sickle Cell Anemia discriminates by race. as well  as Cystic Fibrosis and a fatal disease that only Eastern Jews are victims of.

Xenophobia is fear of strangers.  Your family members  are not strangers. ergo, They didn't put you on alert(?) And have you informed the xenophobic followers of Cruz and Rubio andTrump that they are anachronisms? 

The reason humans look so different is um... why? I  never got that straight. And does the answer carry over into the animal kingdom, making wildebeests and lions brothers, prone to fratricide?  And does the information about Nigeria validate or void who  the ancestors of America's slave descendants are?  And what difference does it make?

Jazz, our premiere form of music, also has European influences having to do with music theory.  

Sooooooo, what I can derive from your info is that humans are one big family, able to  transcend xenophobia  while simultaneously  singing  Kumbaya and rattling sabers. And how does the survival of the fittest phenomenon and blood types figure into all of this.  

  I don't offer my comments as rebuttals to your explanations which I do wonder about because some don't make sense and science is always correcting itself, revising what was previously thought to be fact. That's why Pluto is no longer a planet and quantum physics have been redefined. :huh:                                                                                                                             

Actually, none of this is a big deal to me because I faithfully watch the Science channel and I'm convinced we are all descended from Aliens.:o

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Troy

Pioneer, any African that would fail to embrace an African-American as his Brother is simply a victim of the same colonial mindset we are. Pan-Africanism is better than the fractured, powerless, state we are in today. "Pan worldism" would serve humanity better, but I'm happy to go one step at a time.

Oh, the middle east, is clearly on the African continent. Mesopotamia, Egypt, the birth place of Christ, and the Great Pyramids are all in north east Africa.


As I said in my previous post, PART of the Middle East is in Africa, but if you look at Iran and Turkey which is also considered part of the Middle East....these nations are clearly not within the boundaries of the African continent.

When I was younger and running around Detroit, most of my political interactions were with Black Nationalists who CONSIDERED themselves "Pan Africanists" because they had a glorified view of Africa.....and so did I.   But as I began to travel more and run into REAL Africans from the continent the more I realized how LESS we actually have in common with eachother not only culturally but even mentally.
We are all of African DESCEN...sho 'nuff. 
And ofcourse the same snake of White supremacy that bit them in the form of colonialsism bit our people too in the form of slavery. However being African is more than just genes or sharing a common ancestry.  I also began to realize it was a mindset....HUGELY VARIANT BETWEEN ONE NATION AND THE NEXT as Cynique and Mel have pointed out...that most AfroAmericans don't seem to share with most continental Africans.  Because of this, even when we TRY to unite with them....the cultural diffrences are too vast and often don't permit it.  Usually one has to give in and submit to the other's culture.

I believe there is strong hope for a type of PanAfrican unity, but it's going to take a lot of patience and careful planning and both groups will have to be conditioned into a receptive mindset.

 

 

 

Sara

Africa was black for millions of years before Arabs arrived in the 7th century A.D. Egypt had been a wholly black nation and world power for over 5,000 years before the first Arab set foot on African soil.

Yes, yes..I understand. But we're not JUST talking about Africa.
When you talk about the Bible you're talking about parts of Europe (letters to Greeks) as well as parts of Asia (Shinar, Palestine, Media, Persia, ect...)

 

 

 

The Middle East is a term coined in 1901. Until that century, nobody talked about the Middle East because neither the term nor the states in the region existed.


The TERM "middle east" may not have existed, but the REGION has been there since atleast Biblical times.
Persia was no more a part of Africa THEN than it is NOW.

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