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I have a few points to make on this topic that I'm sure many may not like but they must be said for the sake of our youth.....

First, the fact is, some people ARE physically unattractive.  It's an unfortunate fact, but a fact none the less.  I'm not the MOST attractive person on the planet, so I'm not saying this to talk down on anyone else, but I believe in being honest with our youth.  To tell them that they are the most beautiful person in the world when you KNOW they are not. is just setting them up for a life of disappointment and confusion. That's not love.  Nor is it being kind.  It's delayed cruelty.

It's like telling a person who you know is on the slow side that they are smart and encouraging them to go to school to be a lawyer or scientist.  If you love them, tell them the truth in a kind way to save them from further hurt and humiliation. 
Not that a less physically attractive person can't be successful in life, but they may not have the advantage in certain professions or personal relationships that a very attractive person may have automatically.

Second, we know that not only is beauty in the eyes of the beholder, but the standards also change from time to time and from society to society.  In this society White women have been hoisted up as the ideal standards of beauty and this concept has ruined the self esteem of most Black girls in the United States and all over the Western world. Especially dark skinned Black girls.  Many have suffered psychological torture from society at large and much of it from other Black people for being dark skinned or having big noses or big lips and other African features that this society calls "ugly" or unattractive.
Black girls, especially darker skinned girls with more "African" features should be portrayed in a more positive light.  We saw this in the 60s and 70s and it had a tremendous effect on raising the self esteem of a lot of our people both male and female.

Third, the poor diet of so many of our children DOES infact make many of them out of shape and grotesque with a terrible figure and terrible skin.
I remember as a kid most Black boys were skinny with well defined muscles and six-packs.
Most Black girls were on the heavy side, but still shapely with nice wide hips and a narrow waiste.
Now when you go to a lot of inner city schools it's hard to tell the boys from the girls.  Both of them are very obese at a young age with round puffy faces and no "shape" to their bodies to distiguish the boys from the girls.  Some of the boys have breasts.   Many have stretchmarks in their early teens, asthma, diabetes, and other health issues that go along with being overweight. I drive through White neighborhoods and it seems like ALL of them from young to old are out jogging with their shirts off showing off their six-packs!   I'm thinking to myself.....ok, when did all of this running and jogging start???

Along with obseity, many of our youth have dry ashy skin, dry brittle hair with no luster, and other physical issues that are not seen among Blacks in other parts of the world. 
Something is actually happening to our children and I'm not sure if it's the result of the diet alone or perhaps medications that many are taking, but there is a NOTICABLE change in the physical and mental characteristics of Black youth today as compared to a couple generations ago.  And with all this lead and other toxins they're finding in the water, there's no telling how that's contributing to the problems too.

This shouldn't just be ignored or normalized.
There is an effort on the part of some to encourage your young people to "embrace" these problems and be proud of themselves.   But you shouldn't embrace a dysfunctional and unhealthy body, you have to recognize it as a PROBLEM and do something about it.

Now with all that said, it's important that young Black boys and girls be properly EDUCATED as to what constitutes healthy Black physical characteristics (kinky hair, wide hips, wide nose, ect...) so they can distiguish this from unhealthy characteristics like dry brittle hair, obesity, dry flakey skin, ect....and DO SOMETHING to correct these faults like proper diet, exercise, using the correct make-up for their skin.

Like Malcolm X said, I know some of you don't like my saying this.

You want to hear people say EVERYBODY IS BEAUTIFUL.

But we all know this is just not the case.

I LOVE my young brothers and sisters too much to give them ear candy and tell them what they WANT to hear knowing that it will only set them up for a life of disappointment and failure.


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Well Pioneer I see you are really fixed on outward appearance :-)  I can't debate you on rising obesity and related health risks, cause I agree with you there.

But Chasitie, never said what the girl actually looks like from a physical perspective.  Who know she may actually be physically even by your standard, but may not see it.  This is common with women who are overwhelmed with images of celebrities photoshopped to an unattainable level of beauty. Of course the impact is even more severe today since many young women can't put their phones down for more than 5 minutes.

Of course, beauty goes beyond how someone looks.  We often marginalize people who may have a lot to offer simply because they are unattractive, or Black.

Since we are unique, I believe we are all beautiful in some way.  It is just that our culture is so damn shallow, that we are only trained to judge "beauty" based upon some European standard, and we actually miss out on the beauty we all have.

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The imperfection that make humans physically unappealing are comparable to the character imperfection that makes  people embrace a beautiful appearance and reject an ugly one.  But, nobody's perfect, so being judgmental about the preferences of others is an imperfection in itself.

It's common knowledge that being gorgeous doesn't guarantee happiness. Just ask all the stressed out, misused and abused stars with eating disorders whose looks have propelled them to fame and fortune and - substance abuse.  

You never know. A non celebrity woman whose good looks scored her a devoted husband, a nice home, and perfect children, may be bored to tears because she yearns for an exciting life.  

On the other hand, if she has learned to like and be good company for herself, an unattractive woman who never acquired the popularity that would presumably  provide her with an ideal existence,  may turn out to be a liberated, contented person. What society deems to be assets ain't all it's cracked up to be. 

Life isn't fair. But winners play the hand they're dealt instead of wallowing in self-pity.  

Nina Simone has been the subject of discussion lately and, by certainly standards she would be considered an ugly woman. She was also an angry woman and I always wondered if her dissatisfaction with her looks had something to do with her fierceness.  But because she channeled her anger into all the right places, she became a dynamic performer and a heroic social activist.     

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Well, well, well, @Pioneer1 now we know how you feel about physical appearance.  Whoa, what a biting commentary on physical appearance!

Like @Troy said, I was talking about the culture that supports girls thinking of themselves according to an unattainable standard.  Other cultures have different standards of beauty than ours; thicker bodies, rounder faces, etc.  It was just shocking....I hated hearing that. 


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55 minutes ago, Cynique said:

Nina Simone has been the subject of discussion lately and, by certainly standards she would be considered an ugly woman. She was also an angry woman and I always wondered if her dissatisfaction with her looks had something to do with her fierceness.  But because she channeled her anger into all the right places, she became a dynamic performer and a heroic social activist.     

As for your comment above, I was referring to the young girls statement as shocking and hard to hear. 

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NIna also had a serious, largely untreated, mental condition. This explains her erratic behavior and perhaps even her art.

Again being "Mr. Antirace" I would be willing to bet money that there is a much stronger correlation between obesity and class than there is by race.  Where lower class people tend to be overweight, and upper middle class people less so.


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Troy and Chasitie

It's not so much ME that's fixed on outward appearance, but it's this society in general.
And our children need to learn how to COMPETE with other people in this game of life so that they will be successful.

I actually expected to see some sort of picture of the young lady when I clicked on the link but didn't see one. But my post wasn't really focused on this young lady specificaly, it was more of a rant on the general condition of so many of our young people.

Like I've said before, I'm not the best looking man myself. I'm aware that looks aren't the most important part of a person's make up...but they do play are large role in how others perceive you and to tell our young people and especially our young women otherwise is just setting them up for failure.

I'm well aware that the definitions of obesity is often unreliable because bone structure and density tend to differ among the races, but hell....when you have an 11 year old girl walking down the street weighing 280 pounds with so much fat and cellulite on her thighs she looks like a sack of sweet potatoes walking on two feet, that ain't some "false standard of beauty" telling you something is wrong....that's common sense.

The biggest problem young Black women face isn't some skinny White woman on televison doing yoga and trying to imitate her. The biggest problem is the self-destructive lifestyle and dietary habits that disfigure so many of our youth even before adulthhood and make them slow not only physically but mentally.
And then telling them to be PROUD of it and accept it and love yourself!

Understand what I'm saying......
It's not about beating up on people for things they can't help like a deformity or accident. I was ranting about this movement that allows Black youth to eat all types of garbage, not exercise and get their lazy behinds off the couch or off instagram....and tell them they are fine just the way they are. The entire world may see an AfroAmerican President on television, but when they come here they also see some of the fattest laziest SLOPPIEST negroes they ever layed eyes on.
I have a cousin who's so fat and lazy he can't keep his eyes open when he's talking to you.

I've never been lazy but I used to be fat (40% body fat) in my younger days but decided to eat right and exercise in order to lose weight and impress a woman I was working with who turned out to be a straight up NUT and I had to leave her alone.  But I loved how that change  made me feel and I maintained the habit to this day. 

It's the responsibility of the parents and teachers to prepare the child to be SUCCESSFUL in society, not lie to them or be "nice" to them. They need to learn how to discipline themselves and eat properly and get the proper exercise so that they can improve their academics, their physical appearance, the way they talk, dress, ect...and effectively compete with others around the world.


Yes, I was being honest.
My love for young people and desire to see them successful in the competiton of life is much stronger than my desire to be "nice" to them so they can silently fail....lol.

I talk to them all the time and I know how hurt many of these young sisters are at the seeming appearance that Black boys don't show them the love and adoration that they see White men showing White women in the movies and often in real life. It hurts them to their core and the last thing they need is somebody lying to them about how they can be fat, ungroomed, and loud....and if someone doesn't like it then it's "their" problem.
I tell my young sisters the truth, and many don't like it but so many have come back to me a year or 2 later and couldn't stop thanking me and offering to buy me things because I was honest and gave them the best advice all the other men they knew wouldn't.


The Nation of Islam produced some very beautiful Black men and women back in the 60s and 70s who didn't look their age because Elijah Muhammad used to make his followers obey a strict diet that was good for Black people avoiding pork, alcohol, cigarettes, and many animal flesh and bi-products.

Scholars and historians for centuries if not millenia have commented on the strength, form, and beauty of African men and women. We are indeed among the best looking when we EAT PROPERLY based on our genetics (low animal fat, low starch, mostly fruit) and live an appropriate lifestyle.

But it starts with truth, and an honest look at ourselves and what the problem is.


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Wesley Snipes punched Halley Berry, causing her to lose her hearing--what?!

Pioneer I agree with the last thing you wrote, which addresses a completely different issue than what Chastie wrote about; an individual young lady with an apparent self-esteem issue.  Now if the young lady Chastie was talking about, looks like a "sack of sweet potatoes walking on two feet," then the young lady would  benefit tremendously by losing some weight.  But since we don't know what she looks like who knows.  

Growing up and getting a job can correct many of these self esteem issues: nicer clothing, braces, vision correction, healthier food, a trainer, a psychologist, a better set of friends, etc

The weight issue reminds me of the "Thick" conversation we had a few years ago, where I was essentially arguing your point.  Some Brothers like their women "Thick," which I viewed as a euphemism for "fat."  

Sara, one easy way to get rid of the problem of "...making AMERICAN problems the exclusive problems of black Americans," is to simply stop framing these issues based upon race.  Again I believe obesity is more an issue of culture and class.  American's are fat.

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Sure a higher percentage of Black people are unemployed than white folks, I'm just saying let's deal with the problem of unemployment and leave race out of it.  It obviously has not helped so far, and there is no indication that it will.

I'm not sure why dropping "African" from the sites name matters, "African" and race have nothing to do with each other.  That is like saying American means "white."

Sure, class is a manmade construct too, but the U.S. does not attempt to categorize people by class on the census.  Why should we continue to shoehorn 340 million people into a bunch of meaningless categories.

I was not attempting to the describe the "causes" of obesity either.  I was proposing a correlation between class and obesity, one which is independent of race.

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Sure knowing there are pockets of unemployment can use useful in understanding causes.  The are pockets of unemployment all over the country.  In some places, like the industrial mid-west, it is due to outsourcing of manufacturing jobs overseas.  Again I don't believe putting racing into the mix is necessary to deal with the problem.

Again "Africa" is not a racial group, so I don't understand what point you are trying to make.  Ethnicities are not racial group either. You are mixing apples with oranges and it is making what you are trying to say unclear to me.

Again, the purpose of the site is to celebrate our culture (obviously), if someone of Irish descent wants to get down, I welcome them.

I'm not clear why you are so dead set upon embracing a construct created by racists to denigrate us as "our" heritage. Our African ancestors did not refer to themselves as "Black" why should we?  Why do you @Sara?


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Since nobody seems to be on the same page in this comic book, my chapter lampoons characters like Sara who are nothing without attaching themselves to Africa. Anyone really interested in their heritage can trace their family trees for generations in this country. Sara and her ilk cling to Africa because it gives them a false sense of status, comparable to a German embracing the culture of Spain because both countries are in Europe. Totally irrelevant. :lol:

Diversity is a dominant influence In the real world, (a foreign place to those who regularly use the term racism, but deny that race exists, ;))   People look, act, speak. differently. The human species is a mosaic. Black and white are terms that expand a description.:mellow:

Bad and good are also social constructs. It's more about the strong and the weak. The strong survive.  Power rules. That's the scheme of things.  :(

Spring approaches and I have emerged from my intermittent hibernation and ascended a mountaintop where I will henceforth busy myself with contemplating the mysteries of life:huh:  OHMMMMMMM

Language verbalizes, reality is silent.:o SHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

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LMAO On the sauce again, Sara?  You are still fixated on me being anti-semitic but can never give an example of it or mount a coherent response; just a bunch of old recycled ideas that reinforce the fact that you are neither an original or critical thinker. Yawwwwwwwwnnnnnnnn. 

Sorry ,Troy.  I shall now return to contemplating the mysteries of life,  one of which is what Sara's fuck buddy could possibly find interesting about her. Guess hens of a feather, flock together and they're both obnoxious.  OOOOOHHHHHHMMMM.

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The fact is, too many of our people are dumber and uglier than they really SHOULD be.
We should be trying to IMPROVE ourselves instead of trying to divert attention away from the problem by making it an "American problem" or pointing at White people and what they're going through.

It's not simply being fat that I'm taking issue with because I've found more heavy women attractive than I've found skinny women. 
It's the OBESITY along with terrible skin and other health problems (both physical and mental) so many of our people are suffering from that need to be addressed....not embraced.

This is an attractive FAT woman:

This is an OBESE woman:


There is a clear difference between the bodies of these 2 women.
It's not just the amount of weight, but the texture of skin and the proportions are also different.

We know that most Black women's bodies tend to be made slightly different than most White women's bodies, but some are using this fact as an excuse to let our girls blow up like balloons. Then turn around and jump on Black men for not loving them the "way they are".

It's the same for Black men BTW.....

Noooo, I'm not gonna sit up here and just pick on my sisters.
Too many of our brothers are seen staggering around the streets of America fat, sloppy, toothless, with dry ashy faces and elbows.

Go to the suburbs and the White man is our running with his shirt off and a band around his harm. Go the 'hood and whatever the Black man is doing...chances are he's SITTING DOWN doing it.

I'm so glad I had an opportunity to go to Europe years ago and see beautiful Black men and women who were WELL DRESSED.
Most of them were African or Carribean and stuck to thier native diet even though they may have lived in England or France, and these people were so attractive and hooked up they looked like they stepped out of a fashion magazine.


Nobody's perfect, but we need to start taking much more responsibility for our health, our looks, our minds, and especially our souls.

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Nice of you and your girlfriend to pose for those pictures posted by Pioneer, Sara.  Looks like you been feeding yourself, as opposed to feeding trolls. Your ego isn't the only thing that's inflated. And I can just imagine what your sweetiepie eats.  You're probably her favorite dish.  LMAO   

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Pioneer I have to side with Sara on this one both women pictured are obese; and I don't need calipers to make that distinction.  There is one major difference between the two women; one is obviously pictured in a pleasing way with liberal use of photoshop, while the other is not.

Sara the word Black (or Negro) was first used by Europeans.  Think about it, why would people on the continent of Africa refer to themselves that way?  

If the government got out of the business of trying to put people into meaningless racial buckets I do not think racism would go away the next day, but as the government and the culture stopped focusing on it, maybe in a few generations it might.  We do know continuing to fixate on race has not gotten rid of racism.  But we will simply have to disagree on that point.  

Sara here is something else to consider, all humans on the planet are of African Descent.  Sure we may be of more recent decent, but ultimately all humans come from Africa.

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Ho Hum

On 3/9/2016 at 9:36 AM, Cynique said:

Diversity is a dominant influence In the real world, (a foreign place to those who regularly use the term racism, but deny that race exists, ;))   People look, act, speak. differently. The human species is a mosaic. Black and white are terms that expand a description.:mellow:

Bad and good are also social constructs. It's more about the strong and the weak. The strong survive.  Power rules. That's the scheme of things.  :(


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No of course they would not have referred to themselves in a language that was not yet invented, but there is no evidence that they referenced to themselves using the same constructs white racists use today.  The word Negro comes from the Spanish, but they derived it from the Greek necro meaning dead. None of which has anything to do with African people.

Worth reading:The Name Negro, It's Origin and Evil Use


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