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Pioneer1

What If It Were True.......

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This thought was inspired by a few questions Xeon raised in another thread:

"
Well, tell ya what...why don't you give me the name of one black African country in 2016, that leads the world in technological, medical and scientific development. Give me the name of one black African nation that is a global leader in engineering, economics, agriculture and education. How many black African nations are totally and completely free of technological assistance, infrastructure development and economic assistance from China, Europe or the US? And when you finish that list, give me another list of "non-Negro nations" and governments that are dependent on "black African countries" for technological advisors and developers. "

 



Hypothetically speaking.....
What if it were proven beyond any doubt to both Blacks as well as Whites that the Black race is somehow intellectually inferior to Whites?

How would that knowledge affect our outlook on life as individuals as well as collectively?

How would it affect our social and political decisions?

Perhaps some proud ones would argue in favor of mass suicide.
Others for sure...infact many already are..would become open conformists submitting themselves to Whites as faithful servants and possibly even slaves.
Would there then be a political movement by some Conformist negroes to convince the masses that their best bet is to humble themselves into docile servitude as a way of best getting along in society?

How would it affect our relationship with OTHER races such as Asians and how we relate to them?


How would it affect the LAWS?
Could you no longer sue for discrimination since it would be "justified"?
Would all the civil rights laws we fought for then have to be REVERSED?
Or would Black people no longer be held accountable for certain crimes with the defense of mental deficiency...lol?


Judge:
"Ordinarily I'd give a person 25 years to life for such a heinous crime, but knowing how YOU PEOPLE are I'm sure you probably didn't know too much better.
I'll let you go with a warning this time.
Just make sure you apologize to his family at the funeral"

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There would always be the voices of Relativism who, as a matter of intellectual discipline, would raise the argument that intelligence depends on environmental circumstances, and IQ tests only measure a person's ability to pass a written exam.  

Objectivity would also be a road block.  For the conclusion in question to be acceptable, Whites would have to be tested by Blacks, and Blacks tested by Whites, the results of which would be so convoluted that  nobody would accept the outcome.  IMO

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Cynique

One of the beautiful things about a "hypothetical" situation....is that there is no hidden factors in it.

We know there is almost no way most people (especialy most Black people) would accept such a claim in real life.
There are too many environmental and other subjective factors involved as well as how one actually determines "intelligence".
Not to mention the pride factor which has been known to send some people to their graves not willing to accept certain "truths".

But almost anything is possible in the "hypothetical world".

 

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1 hour ago, Pioneer1 said:

But almost anything is possible in the "hypothetical world".
 

If hypothetically speaking is not an absolute, then the question is meaningless because the "almost" factor leaves a window for broad speculation open.

IMO, your conditional "hypothetical"  description is a receipe for chaos and anarchy.                                                                         

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Of course one would also have to hypothetically assume that race also exists in order for this thought experiment to even make sense.

Despite that @Pioneer1 you don't have to consider this hypothetically, we live in a world that believed Black people are intellectually inferior--this is the reality.  To answer your question just look around.  

There have been many books written over the last century that promulgated the concept of Black inferiority or white superiority.  Of course all of these books are garbage and have no basis in science.  But again these ideas persist because people can not let go of the concept of race, and understand we are all part of the same race, Human.

 

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Cynique

If hypothetically speaking is not an absolute, then the question is meaningless because the "almost" factor leaves a window for broad speculation open.

In a hypothetical WORLD almost anything is possible.
In a hypothectical SCENARIO the only things that are possible are those within the boundaries set by the presenter.

 



All

You can't present counter arguments to this (or try to "flip" it Sara....lol).
It's like going to a sci-fi movie and arguing over how unrealistic the show was.
It wasn't presented as reality in the first place.

In a hypothetical scenario you either you entertain the idea and the questions posed within it or you don't.

 


 

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Well, I expressed my opinion; I said what you postulated sounded like a recipe for chaos and anarchy.   Are you obligated to challenge my opinion or prepared to express one of your own???

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Are you obligated to challenge my opinion or prepared to express one of your own???


My opinion is under that scenario, perhaps the best option would be to follow a path similar to what WEB Dubois outlined in his "Talented Tenth".

Promote the most intelligent and conscious of our people into positions of leadership and get behind them.

Even under the scenario I outlined where Whites on average were genetically more intelligent than Blacks on average.
The law of averages would still allow for a smaller number of Blacks to be just as smart as the smartest Whites.
A small number of leaders could lead just as effectively (if not more) as a large number of them given the masses get behind them and submit to their leadership.

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Come on.  If white people have definitively proven their superior intellect, they'll be too smart to share their power with a select number of Blacks.  

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Even in sports weaker teams get the best draft choices for new players. So you need not exterminate the weak. If you substituted handicap for color the question is easier to answer. What the competent do to the incompetent speaks volumes.

Edited by Delano
typos

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Sara

Oh, btw, DuBois abandoned his "Talented Tenth" postulation.

I said "similar to" , not "exactly like".
A coyote is "similar to" a wolf....but not "exactly like" one.



Cynique

Come on. If white people have definitively proven their superior intellect, they'll be too smart to share their power with a select number of Blacks.

As Troy pointed out White people ALREADY think they're superior intellectually, yet they still allow Blacks to become police officers, mayors, congressmen, go to college, form our own organizations, ect.....

What makes you think a confirmation of their beliefs would make THAT big of a difference in how they treat us?

 

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Del

I know you don't currently reside in the United States.....
But judging from the time you've spent here, do YOU think AfroAmericans have enough power in this nation to join government institutions and do major things without being "allowed" to by the dominant White populous?


 

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Del

Pioneer you know the answer to that question

Come on now Del, the question is about what YOU think...not me.
How would I know what YOU thought unless I asked you?


If I DID know what was in your mind, trust me I wouldn't be wasting time in this thread.
I'd be somewhere availing myself of the financial institutions that you frequent...lol.

 

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@Pioneer1My answer to the question you asked Del, which he apparently thought was too obvious to answer is no. I do not think "AfroAmericans  have enough power in this nation to join government institutions and do major things without being 'allowed' to by the dominant White populous." President Barack Obama is proof of that, along with another prominent example in the person of his retired Attorney General, Eric Holder, who was constrained in his actions about the treatment of blacks by cops.    Why the hell do you thinks black folks are always bitchin? 

And very few blacks wield any such power in the private sector except maybe, Oprah.  Certain music czars like Jay-Z and Dr. Dre can pretty much call their shots. Yet, blacks don't have a lot of influence in the film industry.  Yes, there are blacks with private fortunes but they have not accumulated the wealth to be inducted into the "ol boy" network of power. 

Power is rarely shared.  Diluted power is doled out to  what you refer to as police officers, mayors, congressmen, college students, heads of organizations, but these blacks  all answer to "The Man", even if they were among the voting bloc who helped elect "him".  IMO.

Do you disagree? 

 

 

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Cynique

My answer to the question you asked Del, which he apparently thought was too obvious to answer is no.

Perhaps Del didn't answer it because he thought it was too obvious.
Or perhaps....
He didn't answer it because it would eventually lead to him having to explain why he singled out my statement that White folks "allowed" these things.....as if he disagreed with it.

 

Power is rarely shared. Diluted power is doled out to what you refer to as police officers, mayors, congressmen, college students, heads of organizations, but these blacks all answer to "The Man", even if they were among the voting bloc who helped elect "him". IMO.

Do you disagree?

When it comes to SYSTEMIC power, or power that is granted within the framework of an institution...I agree absolutely.
This type of power (known as AUTHORIZATION) is bestowed from the top down.

However, a few years ago doing some community work with so-called "street people" I became acquainted with another type of power that some people generated on their own from the support and admiration from the people around them.

They didn't have official ranks or titles bestowed on them by the government or any other institution, but the way they spoke and carried themselves commanded respect and obediance from their friends and even many acquaintences.

This type of power is known as "people power".
This type of power can't be diluted, shared, bestowed, or doled out.

A good example is the Kanye concert and how the people nearly rioted over him last night.  But it's not just him, that could go for most superstars.
No Mayor, Governor, military General or anyone else of official institutional rank could have gotten that response from a crowd of people.
Kanye had enough power that he could have  directd that crowd to destroy half of Manhattan if he had so chosen.  He wasn't granted that power by the state, military, or any other insitution....although he was promoted by the music industry.
He got it from the people.
No institution could take that away from him because they didn't "authorize" or give it to him.

This is the type of power most Black leaders have traditionally enjoyed in America even under the worst oppression.



 

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Well, people power, - or being in a position to wield influence at a given time under given circumstances, is often a spontaneous or temporary fix. It pacifies people but does not necessarily solve a problem independently of government input. Kanye may have had the power to unleash his fans on Manhatten but he wouldn't have had the power to undo the effects of an armed police riot squad that would've responded.

Communities leaders from all walks of life, including the newly-appointed  black police superintendent, are trying in all manner of ways to get young blacks in Chicago to put down their guns.  But nothing is working!  The gang-related and random killings continue on a daily basis.  It is a major crisis and one that is not responding to mob psychology.  The public rhetoric of charismatic black leaders is like "preaching to the choir" because the ones who hear it are not the offenders.  The perpetrators of murder and violence are controlled by the power they derive from holding a gun in their hands.   

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Well the question of whether Obama and Holder had sufficient power to do anything is predicated on the assumption that they actually wanted to to do something substantive for Black folks.  As far as I'm concerned the jury is out on that.... no actually I don't think they really tried to do anything to specifically address the plight of Black people.  Obama was the president for all people and most American's are not Black.

So the question is not just do we have the power; the question is when we have the power do we chose to use it benefit our people.

Collectively, we absolutely have power but we generally use it to benefit ourselves, individually--that is the american way.

Entertainers (which include actors, athletes, and musicians, generally don't have power.  They serve at the largess of the people they work for--they are as powerful as an hourly worker in a fortune 100 company.

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In what area do we collectively have power? Boycotts are as much a sacrifice as they are powerful.   When it comes to the black voting bloc, it may elect a candidate, but the candidates  who it elects don't keep their promises.  To whom do Jay-Z and Dr. Dre answer? 

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Cynique


I'm no sociologist but I can give you what I believe are two MAJOR reasons why violence in that city has exploded:
 

 


Media

The media has subconciously PROMOTED violence among the Black youth of Chicago by constantly associating them with it to it becomes part of their identity.


Since before Obama took office over 7 years ago the media has focused on the violence among Black youth in Chicago as a sort of back-handed swipe at Obama, suggesting that if this is the environment a Black President comes from then this is where he may take the country.

Although at the time Chicago was nowhere near the murder capital either in per-capita or in actual homicides, everytime there was a debate about violence and gun control conservatives would routinely bring up the violence in Chicago and how it's strict gun laws hasn't helped the city.

Then the national media started randomly broadcasting Chicago's homicides on a daily basis for no apparent reason. Unless it was a mass shooting...generally homicides are considered local news. But for some reason NBC and ABC started reporting Chicago's local homicides nationally.

Then ofcourse the big one dropped.
Spike Lee's CHIRAQ comes out essentially dramatizing and glorifying the gang culture of Chicago and this gave many Black youth a sense of pride and admiration that most young people hunger for whether it's good or bad.

The same thing happend with movies like Colors and  music like gangsta rap and how it not only fueled gang violence in Los Angeles by giving Black youth a negative culture to identify with and maintain but also caused youth all over the nation to imitate them for the same reasons.




Culture

Most of those who operate the criminal justice system in Cook County and the state of Illinois are middle class Whites from suburban areas, but they're trying to control and enforce the law on poor and working class Blacks in the city.

Most middle class Whites have an altruistic moral code.
The comfortable and stable environment most of them come from creates a belief that people should just "do the right thing" and obey the laws regardless of good or bad consequences.
Where as... like the Sicilians, Italians, and Jews in the ghettoes of America BEFORE them....most Black males respect STRENGTH and accomplishment.

Not pollyanish complex everchanging laws constantly coming in form outside their communities.
These laws are often seen as obstacles to be overcome rather than boundaries.

While the middle class code emphasizes education and handling conflict through the "proper channels" which means through lawyers, police officers, courts, ect.....
Most inner city men regardless of race can't afford lawyers and have an entirely different code of honor that demands they be seen as strong, brave, and quick to retaliate against a perceived offense.

Just another example of what happens when you expect Black people to live under a White culture.

 

 


I believe the only way the violence in Black Chicago is going to get solved is when the Black community stops relying on the police and other White people or White ran institutions to solve a problem they have a vested interest in maintaining...and actually take the responsbility THEMSELVES to solve it.

The Nation of Islam had a solid reputation for going into dope dens violent housing projects and establishing peace and security in a relatively short period of time.





 

 

Troy

As I said in the MIchael Eric Dyson thread, I'm still going to lay most of the responsibility on Black America itself for not coming up with a sound Agenda (capital "A") to present to Obama for him to take affirmative action on.

White women and homosexuals were READY with theirs and presented their demands to him before he even took his oath of office.
We sat back just EXPECTING for him to "help a brother out".

Both him and Eric had the power, but without the direction of a Black Agenda....that power was used by others to there own ends.


 

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Sara

I'm not sure, but something tells me that all those stats and other excuses you're providing to either try to explain away or deflect from why the Black violence rate in Chicago far out numbers that of Whites will be any comfort to the thousands of Black victims and thier families who are suffering from the effects of essential genocide.

Go to a hospital room of a teenager who just got shot over being in the wrong neighborhood and say:

"Hey there young brother!
I know you are a victim of Black on Black violence, and since the gang who popped you also threatened your family too...they're probably still in danger.
But if it's any comfort to you there is a White man somewhere in this SAME hospital who is also a victim of White on White violence after having a couple teeth knocked out in a drunken brawl."


You better say it fast...

Deflection and pointing the finger at what other people are going through doesn't help us.
All it does is deflect us from focusing on finding the solutions to the very real problems that affect our communities.

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@Pioneer1 Spike Lee's film CHIRAQ did not glorify violence or gangster lifestyle in Chicago, in fact it did the exact opposite. Did you see the film?

@Sara, Spike's film bombed because it  just was not very good.  Interesting stats, basically what is says is that Spike has not made a commercially successful film in over a decade. 

That term  "Super Predator," was a evil; turning Black men into nonhuman entities such that no one cared about locking them up and throwing away the key for minor crimes.  I believe even Black people have internalized this depiction.

Which is why I refuse to vote for Hillary as the so called "lessor of two evils;" a voting strategy that still makes no sense to me.

@Cynique, I would not put a Jay-Z, Tyler Perry, Oprah, Bob Johnson, or a Dre in the same category as a typical entertainer/athlete.  The individuals have power.  Jay_z had sufficient power to start Tidal, in an effort to wrest more revenue from his music. Whether is is successful or not that is a show of power, but again who benefits...

But to answer @Xeon's original question there is no Black African country in 2016, that leads the world in technological, medical and scientific development.  But so what? What does that mean?  African countries are European constructs that have nothing to do with the people that lived there.

Still, do you know how many brilliant Nigerians there are?  Where is that brilliance applied--who benefits from it--the West does.  

In fact what happens to all of the brilliant Black people in the United States, do they build their own companies, or do they go work for someone else?  Do they create wealth for their own people or do they enrich someone else?

  • What If every Black basketball player stepped off the court?
  • What if every Black actor refused to work?
  • What if readers stopped buying books from Amazon?

The potential is limitless, but the reality is clear; NBA owners will call the shots over their "Million Dollar Slaves;" Black actors will continue to gripe about not being recognized, and and the limited stereotypical roles offered; and Amazon will continue to dominate, because individually we are too greedy to care about anything other than ourselves.

So the questions I asked and the one posed by Xeon are not relevant because they presuppose conditions that don't exist to answer affirmatively.

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Then there are those like you who are in a constant state of denial that is complicated by an aversion for the truth.  Your perspective is skewed because you are mired in your comfort zone.     

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 Speakin of deluded "niggas who aint shit", sarass, the wanna-be head-nigga-in-charge on AALBC has emerged from her hole again, tryin to whip folks in line - with her tail.  

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Troy

Spike Lee's film CHIRAQ did not glorify violence or gangster lifestyle in Chicago, in fact it did the exact opposite.

The name of the movie itself "Chiraq", can be taken as a romanticism or glorification of violence by taking the name Chicago and poetically associating it with a wore torn middle eastern nation.

I also said the movie dramatized violence by loosely tying it to the Greek classical of 
Lysistrata.

But regardless as to how they frame the violence of the city in the movie, the fact is they certainly didn't help things.  Infact I believe they made the situation worse by fueling the egos of many Black youth by giving Chicago violence more international notoriety.


Did you see the film?

No, not in it's entirety.
I saw clips of it during a critical review and discussion but I actually refused to go watch the whole thing in a bit of a private protest.

 

 

 


Sara
 

"The facts, just the facts, m'am" are "excuses?" I don't think so. Outsiders who take their knowledge of the Chicago metro area from mainstream media and other misrepresentations of the black experience need to be 'corrected' by those of us in the know who have not swallowed whole-hog the propaganda of black inferiority.... or criminality; who in knowing the FACTS, have no shame in relating the truth rather than parroting the "I'm a nigga/you a nigga/a nigga ain't shit" propaganda of TPTB.

I understand the point you're making, you don't want your community to be falsely labled or misrepresented.  However the fact is the level of violence in Chicago's Black community is far too high for us to tolerate REGARDLESS as to whether or not other communities are experiencing the same.
How much comfort will a cancer patient receive from knowing that they are not alone and others have also developed the same disease?
Not much.
They want to be cured and made whole again.

Facts can indeed be excuses if rather than helping, the merely get in the way of solving the problem.



Also, my response to Cynique concerning the situation in The Chi is totally separate from my intentions in starting this thread.
My hypothetical scenario shouldn't be taken as an implication that I personally see Black people as mentally inferior any more than the film makers of the movie I"ndependence Day" were implying that they hoped space aliens would invade America.
It's just stimulation for philosophy.

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Pioneer, if you actually saw the film you would have to agree that it actually tries to show how senseless the violence in Chicago has become.  Unfortunately it was just done in an inaccessible and unentertaining way.

The last time I was in Chicago the violence subject came up in several conversations with native Chicagoans.  I was told over the Mother's Day weekend, 45 Chicagoans were shot, this was on the heels of a campaign, to stop the violence.  I did not hear this on the news, I heard this directly from Chicagoans themselves. Another Chicago native told me his loved Chicago, but his only complaint is the violence.

I know what it is like to live in a violent neighborhood, to be literally concerned about your well being when going outside.  I also know the government can turn things around tomorrow if they wanted to, because today, 40 years later, I live in the very same neighborhood.  While it is not perfect it is like paradise compared to when I grew up.

Chicago has a very serious problem, but it is not unique.  To fix it, the government will need to do what is necessary. Chicago really is, and should be, the Black mecca of America--and this is a Harlemite writing.

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Cynique

I forgot to add another major component that I think is causing the spike in Chicago's violence.

Chicago has had Black gangs since atleast the 50s but atleast back during that time you had a type of structure or code where the elders called the shots and the younger gangsters fell in line and did as they were told.  Everyone was accountable to someone.
But starting in the late 70s on through to today many of the older gang leaders have been targeted and locked up so and those who remain make themselves less influential so as not to be noticed by the law, so the structure isn't as solid as it used to be.

Larry Hoover was one of the few who could pull off running a gang from behind bars, but for the most part you have a bunch of loose cannons out there firing at will and not respecting or even knowing about the original "street codes" that were established decades ago to keep what his happening now FROM happening.

 

 


Troy

One of the problems that has been afflicting Black Chicago as well as Detroit, St Louis, New York, Los Angeles, and other major cities outside of the South  for the past 20 or 30 years is the epedimic of Black BRAIN DRAIN.

So many young Black professionals who should have stayed in Chicago and used their talents to revitalize their own communities instead literally "took the easy way out" and LEFT the 'hood after getting their degrees.
Some simply moved to the suburbs, but many if not most actually LEFT THE STATE.
They moved to places like Atlanta, Charlotte, Houston, Miami...claiming they were leaving behind the cold weather, crime, and the often open racism of the "white ethnics" that plague so many large Northern cities.

So with the manufacturing jobs dried up, and most of the Black professionals gone...who's left in the neighborhood to maintain it's economy and keep order and civility?

 


I'm sure you know quite a few friends who grew up with you and went to college but instead of staying in New York...decided to move down South.
They felt more warmth and hospitality down South than they did in the cold "don't look at me punk" social climate of the northern United States.

Infact I'd dare say the only reason New York's Black community is thriving as much as it is...isn't because of Black AMERICAN professionals....but because of the large  WEST INDIAN and AFRICAN immigrant population that continues to stream in and fill in the slots every time a professional AfroAmerican (and now almost ANY AfroAmerican who can walk and is unemployed) gives up and decides to hike it down south in search for better opportunities.


 

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Watta a crock unloaded on us by the queen of subterfuge and duplicity and irrelevancy.  Let sara tell it, Chicago's black community is being misrepresented when it is characterized as violence-riddled.  And her idea of proving this is to resort to the old playground retort that  "they do it, too".  The fact that white people commit crime and shoot guns, or that other cities and towns have a problem with black-on-black crime, in her myopic view, cancels out what is going on in Chicago's urban areas. And of courses, she scapegoats the media, overlooking how the media was who reported the outbreak of violence among whites at North Avenue beach, an incident that is her favorite reference.  Moreover,  for somebody who is so dependent on statistics and data, she'd do well to investigate what percentage of the murders being committed in Chicago are perpetrated by blacks against other blacks before she dismisses the observations of outsiders. The figures don't favor her position.   

As the self-appointed spokesman for minimizing the tragedy of Chicago's black inner city,  it's doubtful whether sara  has many allies among other black Chicago residents in all neighborhoods  who don't stick their heads in the sand like ostriches when it comes to what is obviously a crisis that won't go away if ignored.  All the famous black people she refers to as being Chicago assets would be the first to lament what is going on in their city and to call for more effective ways of combating it instead of dismisses it as "he said/she said" ghetto gossip.  But ol slum-bred sara continues to point her dirty finger at anybody who doesn't buy her feeble attempts to sanitize a dire situation. Talk about a nigga who ain't shit. 

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 I no longer reside in Maywood  and the make-up of its population has ceased to be my concern so  take your simple-minded, slum-bred, slimy, smelly self along with  your affinity for irrelevant BS, and slither on back to the Bronzeville sewer you crawled out of.  Bye.

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I had a good time at a Prince Party tonight. Too bad you're stuck down there in the Bronzeville sewer,  still lonely and abandoned and lacking a life,  and still wallowing in the irrelevancy that permeates  your pathetic existence. Poor ol slum-bred, slimy, smelly sarass.  

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Glad you had a good time at the Prince party Cynique. 

I just read over this exchange between you and Sara.  While you both apparent dislike each other, I can't help but believe you both get some type of perverse pleasure dissing each other.  Otherwise why would either of you invest the time and energy doing it?

This is why I originally thought you too were just talking smack and not taking it seriously and definitely not personally.  

If either of you were sincerely interested in it stopping the back and forth, you would just ignore the other.  It the one constantly attacked the other without provocation or retaliation, they would be a troll.  I always ban trolls.

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You've been reprimanded, Troy, now shape up, or you-know-who will.... do what ?? :lol:

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Sara

 

Facts are never excuses.

Again, facts are INDEED excuses if they aren't part of the solution and actually get in the way of solving the problem.

The rate of Black violence in Chicago is out of control and the FACT that other races engage in violence doesn't solve that problem nor does that FACT comfort the Black victims of this violence.

All it does is shift the focus and lessen the resolve of those who want to solve the problems directly impacting their community by bruching it off as,
"Oh well...everybody's doing it".

 



As for the black gang structure in Chicago, street gangs were NOT started by "elders" in the 1950s. SMDH


I didn't say Black gangs swere STARTED by elders.
I said:
"
Chicago has had Black gangs since atleast the 50s but atleast back during that time you had a type of structure or code where the elders called the shots and the younger gangsters fell in line and did as they were told"

Th
ey were LED by elder members who had more experience and wisdom than the baby gansters and called most of the shots and instilled a sort of discipline in street gangs that you no longer have today.

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Sara

Well eeeuuuuu...... I said "elder gang members" and instead of picturing men in their late 20s and 30s, YOU pictured grey headed people Crip walking and trying to fire automatic rifles at their rivals while holding on to their walkers.

Eeuuuu....yuck!



As for street gangs, surely you're not saying "elders" joined gangs started by teenagers?

I see you DO catch on.
It may take a minute or two...
;)..but eventually you seem to "get it".....lol.

 

In this thread: http://aalbc.com/tc/topic/3902-not-all-cops-are-bad/ you said:
"You can't deal with a message or issue if you're going to ignore it to talk about a tangential one."

I couldn't agree with you more.

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For people who look at the big picture and think outside of the box, tangential thinking does not stump them.  

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Sara

Stop sighing and listen to me.......

You're confusing the word "elder" with "elderly" but they have 2 different meanings.
Elder simply means older.

E.g....

 

"Having an elder sister is a blessing in disguise, especially if you have a sister like Anna; remember "You can't marry a man you just met!"

 ti_725_2420.9436943341.jpg

 

http://www.polkacafe.com/elder-sister-1507.html

 

 

"I was only a year and some odd months younger than Woloda, and from the first we had grown up and studied and played together. Hitherto, the difference between elder and younger brother had never been felt between us, but at the period of which I am speaking"

-Leo Tolstoy Chapter V. My Elder Brother

http://www.online-literature.com/tolstoy/boyhood/5/

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Sara
 

No matter how nonsensical those semantics are, e.g., 16 year old gangbangers back in the day were counseled, guided, nurtured by their elder 17 year old gangbangers. **sigh**
 

B) Hey Sara, come 'ere...........

ptg01109744.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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