500 DEAD IN CHICAGO HOMICIDES,2016!

[harry brown]

News, 500 DEAD In Chicago From Homicides This Year.No ,Other,Non White Race  Having Genocide, Ethnic Cleansing Upon Their Own People. Black People Are Doing What Slavery ,Southern Lynchings Could Not Do . Black Men Are Doing What Racist White People Could Not Do..The Jewish People Are Not Continuing Their Holocaust .Jewish Are Not Putting Jewish People In Concentration Camps Then Killing Them. And The Church, Instead Of Uplifting Communities, Mentoring, Guiding Black Males,Preachers Buy New Cars, Mansions.Street Gangs Are Domestic Violence, Should Be In  Federal Prisons...

[Troy]

...more than NYC and LA combined.  This is beyond tragic, virtually no one in Chicagoland is untouched by this horror.

We live in a culture where we spend more time talking about some gymnast's hair style than things like this, which truly matter.  There is nothing in our culture positioned to do anything about this, not "Southside Obama," "I am somebody Jackson," or even The Nation.

This is not unprecedented, Chicago's murder rate has been worse.  NYC had many years where they topped 2,000 murders.  Sure our population is much larger than Chicago's but not that much larger. 

NYC's solution was to just lock everyone one up.  They have all these other theories like "Broken Window," but at the end of the day they put a lot of people away for a long time, guilt or innocence was often not even a consideration.

We know how to fix these problems without locking negros up and throwing away the key.  No one will make the investment or commitment--not even Black people...

 

[Pioneer1]

I said it before.......
Most of this violence and aggression can be traced directly back to the lead content in the water along with other chemicals in urban environments that are affecting the minds of the people and making them hyper aggressive.

Also, the media isn't helping the way they've been constantly GLORIFYING (for lack of a better term) the violence of Chicago for the past few years.
Shootings WERE going down in Chicago until the media started focusing on every singly homicide there and reporting it nationwide as if it was the only city with suffering from violence. Then movies like Chiraq came out further glorifying and dramatizing the situation there. Now the youth of Chicago have a reputation they feel they must live up to.

Ignorance is a bad state to be in.
When people don't understand mental health and how chemicals can affect their brain and their behavior, they'll constantly be plagued with problems like crime, violence, poor academic performance, dysfunctional families, and other forms of community breakdown.

I'll tell you......it's hard to feel sorry for people when you try to sit them down and explain to them what their problems are and they either make light of it or ignore you. I know things happen to innocent people and I know little babies die and children get killed. But the older I get, the more I understand how FAIR life really is and why a lot of people have the problems that they have.  The older I get the more I realize why so many White people are in the positions they are in and why so many Black people are in the positions THEY are in.

White people recognized and understood the issues of lead and other environmental toxins and they made a fuss about it until much of it was cleaned up in their communities. Too many Black folks simply don't care.
They don't care about the environment.
They don't care about how many jobs are available....as long as they PERSONALLY have one.
They don't care about crime....unless they PERSONALLY are victims.
 
I've been all over the United States from coast to coast and quite frankly there is too  much apathy, indifference, and down right IGNORANCE in the Black community.  Even when they are told what their problems are too many are too indifferent to actively solve them. 

I just with that righteous, sane, rational minded Black people could be rescued from the chaos and foolishness so many of them live around so that they could help build new, strong, progressive communities and save the future generations and prevent the negative element from spreading.
 

[Cynique]

@Troy   Do "we know how to fix these problems without locking negros up and throwing away the key"? How?

@Pioneer1There is probably an element of truth in what you say in regard to lead and toxins having an adverse effect on blacks.  But why does this only affect certain ones? Not all black males in the ghettos embrace the thug life and some do escape their dire circumstance and go on to lead rewarding  lives.  

What's apparent is that living and dying by the gun has gradually evolved into a way of life by many underclass black males, and in their fatalistic view, this is "no big thing". Aside from drug and turf wars, some of the violence is simply fueled by a determination to settle a personal "beef", or to retaliate for being dissed, or to avenge the murders of a "homie" or a family member. This situation can, in turn, result in the perpetrator of such acts being killed himself as   the vicious cycle repeats itself, compounded by the killing and maiming of innocent bystanders, who relatives also want revenge. This is "how things go down" in the dead-end ghetto environment.  Babies being born into unstable, fatherless households also play a part by supplying the future victims and victimizers in an atmosphere where wayward children grow up with no respect for authority or human life.      

     

 

[Troy]

Cynique, I'll give you an example.  When I was a kid, the government literally introduced drugs into the Black community.  Black folks became addicted.  What was the government reaction? Lock both the low level dealers and the users up for decades or longer with new 3 strike laws.

Today white folk here in NY City are ODing left and right.  The government's response: decriminalize drug laws, arm police with drugs to police to prevent death from overdose, implement programs to treat the addiction, and launch a media campaign to turn public's perception of drugs addicts from criminals to be reviled, to victims of a disease in need of compassion and help

Black people in Chicago's South side know no one cares about them; not the business community, not the government, not even the religious organizations (right @harry brown).  If they were treated like people we would not have these conditions.  That sound like hyperbole, but it is the reality.  When you see it first hand it is obvious.

Another example, we know high levels of lead causes brain damage.  The idea that a government would poison (or ignore) a water system that serves the Black community shows at best a complete disregard for the people drinking the water. Usually these people are Black, but they always poor.

The solutions are simple Cynique.  It just starts with treating people with respect and dignity; something Black folks never really enjoyed in the US.  

Black folks who move to white communities can benefit from the proximity to white folks, while Black folks without the resources to escape the inner city ghettos catch hell.

Image getting whacked while pushing a baby in a stroller down the street or while sitting in you home.  This is crazy, but it is accepted as the norm....

[Cynique]

in the year 2016, there are organizations and leaders including religious ones who do care about what's going on in Chicago because it's affecting them. They recognize the problems created by lack of jobs and poor schools and a flawed criminal justice system, and are speaking out trying to attack the problem at a grass route level with whatever resources they can muster.  

The Mayor is under intense pressure to decimate the problem, and is promising reforms and resources.  He fired the old business-as-usual-police superintendent, replacing him with a black veteran cop from the ranks,  whose mantra is to get  guns off the streets, and hire more cops to patrol the neighborhoods. He also wants laws put in place to prevent the early release of repeated offenders who go back to their old criminal ways once they are paroled. 

Police morale is so low they aren't efficiently doing their jobs because they're damned if they do, and damned if they don't. Race, of course has reared its ugly head creating a rift between anxious cops and the suspicious communities  they are hired to serve and protect.

If you listen to the inner city residents who are besieged by what's going on, they will say that's it's the outcasts within their midst who are to blame for what's going on because they have no regard for human life, and weren't raised right or taught any better. 

 It's as if the problems that plague all urban areas came together in Chicago and produced a climate that gave rise to a perfect storm. And 500 murders is the result.    IMO.

[Pioneer1]

Cynique

is probably an element of truth in what you say in regard to lead and toxins having an adverse effect on blacks. But why does this only affect certain ones? Not all black males in the ghettos embrace the thug life and some do escape their dire circumstance and go on to lead rewarding lives.

For the same reason that we KNOW smoking cigarettes causes lung cancer but not all people who smoke cigarettes will get lung cancer nor can all cases of lung cancer traced to cigarette smoking......

Some people have a stronger constitution than others and can be exposed to the same levels of toxins and they not have an adverse effect on them.
We KNOW lead causes aggression and low IQ levels....we KNOW this.
There is no doubt about it.

We know that the lead contamination levels in the United States are highest in the inner cities where the oldest pipes are.  If you look at the lead levels found in the water supply of urban areas of the United States there is almost a direct link between it and the levels of violent crime.

We need to also look at the VACCINES being administered to so many children now a days and how that is also affecting their behavior. Numerous studies have linked certain vaccinations to autism and other behavioral problems in children born after 1970.....especially in Black boys.

Now I'm not saying these are the ONLY causes of the violence in the ghetto but I believe they are the MAIN causes.  At the very lease there can no acceptable solution to the violence in America that doesn't include removing the old lead pipes from not only the water systems but every household's plumbing as well as all of the old paint from buildings similar to what was done with asbestos.


And forget about the police solving this problem.
Chicago's police aren't commited to lowering the crime and violence rate in Chicago's Black neighborhoods...they're just committed to CONTAINING it and keeping it in the ghetto and away from downtown where it can affect business and tourism.  Typical third world style policing.




Troy

We should be used to White people not caring about Black lives by now.
But the problem is a lot of BLACK PEOPLE don't even seem to care about their own lives and the lives of their friend and loved ones anymore.

As the example you pointed out about drugs being brought into the Black community. This has been well known since the 90s yet you have so many Black folks who STILL use and sell drugs not seeming to care that it's part of a plan to destroy them. And the same can be said of gangsta rap and other negatives that have been introduced to the community.

People are even getting shot and killed at PEACE RALLIES that were put on to end the violence.....damn!

Besides the lead poisoning and other toxins in urban environments such as the vaccines that have been linked to violence and aggression, we should also look at the lack of strong POSITIVE Black men that exist in most urban neighborhoods today and how their absents is causing things to spiral out of control.

Back before the 80s, when most poor and lower middle class Black people were forced to live in the same neighborhoods you had a lot of decent working Black folks who wouldn't allow certain things to take place. That old Black woman who sat on her porch all day wouldn't let children cuss on her block and would spank them or call their parents if she saw them doing something wrong. Hard working Black men with rough hands would be quick to organize and beat the hell out of a man who went around the neighborhod breaking into houses or messing with young girls. Now that many middle and working class Black folks have moved out to the suburbs, the inner cities have become an oasis of crime and moral decay.

Even among criminals and hustlers, if you look at the 70s and further back many of the stronger more dominant criminals kept order in the ghetto and wouldn't allow certain things like rape and harming children to take place.  But they got locked up.  Now you got a new group of hustlers and criminals with no moral code and anything goes. 

Remember back in the old days when people who drank liquor didn't do drugs, and those who did drugs didn't drink?
Even among substance abusers there was a code.
Not anymore.....now they're doing EVERYTHING....lol.

I believe I mentioned this several times before. I don't believe the violence is going to end until POSITIVE Black men stand up and organize a group to go into the urban areas of this nation and secure it themselves. We can forget about traditional law enforcement doing it. The most they'll do is CONTAIN the violence and try to keep it in the poorer areas....a tactic usually practiced in most third world nations.

[Troy]

Cynique if the leaders you talk about care, they have a odd way of showing it, given the current situation.

As an outsider looking in, I think one could make a strong argument that Mayor Rahm Emanuel is part of the problem. 

Pioneer I agree with most of what you wrote, but I part ways with you on the vaccinations (but that is a whole 'nother conversation).  

The problems in these communities are self perpetuating.  The positive Black men you talk about usually leave the environment for the obvious quality of life issues with no desire to ever return.

Those left behind were raised on music that glorifies violence and the mistreatment of women.  They were targeted at an early age by marketers selling them shitty processed, sugary foods, tobacco, and alcohol. So if bullets don't get you diabetes will.  We haven't even gotten into corporate takeover of prisons and schools...  and this is just the beginning of how business attack our communities. Don't let me get started on all that Twitter has done for us 

The problems are profound, but not intractable. It will however have to get worse before it gets better.  

[Pioneer1]

Troy

Rahm Emmanuel is definately part of the problem and speaks to the point I made on another thread about Democrats often being just as racist as Republicans. They just join the party for their own personal motives regardless as to the overall theme the party is supposed to represent like racial tolerance and social justice.

My understanding is that Rahm grew up inside the city of Chicago.
And one thing I've noticed about a lot of Whites who grew up in the actual city (but not in Black neighborhoods themselves) whether it's Detroit, Chicago, New York, or Milwaukee......they tend to be more racist than Whites from the suburbs.
Again, I must make a distinction between Whites who grew up in working class neighborhoods inside a large city.....and Whites who grew up among Blacks inside a Black neighborhood in the city.
Whites who grew up inside major cities in these "ethnic enclaves" tend to be unapologetically racist and have a very anti-Black attitude even more so than Whites from the suburbs.
 

 

Cynique and Troy

Another problem is Western civilization itself.
This may seem a little far fetched, but after studying history I believe Western civilization has run it's course and people are tired of it.
The family values and social ethics that have governed Western societies are no longer holding weight with most people as they begin to pull away from Christianity and other organized religions. So peopel are coming up with their own morals and ethical codes and other people are just abandoning ALL forms of morality together and doing whatever they want because there is nobody or real system "in charge" to establish absolute rights or wrongs.


The latter periods of Western civillization was build upon Christianity and atleast the Bible and the church guided the morals of people....now people are pulling away from that.
Wealthy Whites from the suburbs have developed a form of ALTRUISM as a moral compass which definately doesn't work for most poor and people of color who are too needy and frustrated to practice an altruistic moral code.

They see no future or hope for things beyond thier day to day existance and this is creating a sort of morbid indifference where anything goes.

I believe a new civilization or atleast some sort of cultural renaissance will give society and especially the youth the hope needed to re-energize them to CARE again and motive them.


 

[Cynique]

You two just can't dismiss people as not caring. Blacks and whites and particularly the mayor do care about what's going on if for no other reason than because they have a vested interest in cleaning up Chicago's image and curbing the widespread crime that threatens everyone's safety.  

You guys who don't live in Chicago and as people who are always bitching about the how media manipulates the news are, yourselves, guilty of going by what you hear or read instead of what you know for sure. You aren't aware of what measures are being taken to try and combat the problem by local watch dog groups and neighborhood organization and havens that are being funded by both private and public donors and the small successes of these endeavors.  And don't forget that included in the perpetrators of these 500 murders are also Hispanics and whites and other ethnic groups. You also reluctant to touch on the subject of easy assess to the fire arms that are the enablers of the kill or be killed renegades terrorizing the streets of Chiraq.  GUNS!  The bane of a peaceful civilization!  The objects at the core of violence and aggression. The companions that Americans of all persuasions refuse to give up!

The mayhem plaguing Chicago's ghettos has become epidemic and is feeding on itself.  It's a sociological virus that does, indeed, seem to be a sign of the times and deconstructing the problem does not solve it because the times have changed. 

[Troy]

Gun ownership definitely does not explain the problem, it is how a small number of folks in Chicago tend to use them (gun do shoot people, people do).  Sure if you took everyone's gun away there would be no more shootings.  Outlawing guns would stop the gun violence, but business has seen to it the the manufacture and sale of guns will continue unabated.  

It is not a reluctance to touch on the subject it is just one of the many issues we (or I) have not had time to mention.

I'm not sure why you say I'm not aware of measure taking place at the grassroots level.  I probably know as much as you do about these efforts if not more.  I know local Chicago activists, but they will tell you themselves their activities are not producing the desired outcomes.

No one suggested that all of the murder victims were Black, but that is really beside the point, for we know too many of them are Black.  Again I said many times this is not a Black problem, but a cultural one, and one that disproportionately impacts poor Black people. 

I don't mean to suggest that nobody cares.  Of course people care.  All of us obviously care.  The lack of caring is by those in charge, with the power to do something.

So no, guns will not be taken off the streets of Chicago because the lives of all those Black victims lives, means less to people that the right to own a gun.

[Cynique]

 

@Troy OK.   I accused you of the things you had not previously clarified in your blanket statements.  As a resident  of a Chicago suburb, I get my information from people who do live there, so maybe the people you get your information from know more about the situation than the people I get mine from.

 As for guns, their purpose is to kill or maim; they can even do this by accident, not in someone's hand. Without a gun, a person cannot shoot and kill someone, so a killer is as much under the control of a gun as a gun is under his control. But this is an issue that will never be resolved.

To say that those in authority have the power to end the killings in Chicago is rhetoric.  Especially since you weren't specific about what solutions a computerized, class-conscious world offers in the way of reform. Or can you complain about the high rate of black incarceration and at the same time lament about what felons are doing to their own people. You can't villainize  the police and then expect them to keep crime under control. Black apologists have no plan to turn things around.  They just shift the blame and make racism the scapegoat.   

IMO, the situation will just have to play itself out because it involves changing the mindset of young black men. They will have to figure out for themselves if they are creating a better world for the offspring they are wantonly impregnating their aimless babymamas with, or whether replicating themselves will just perpetuate the problems they faced.    Everybody on every front needs to make better decisions.  

[Troy]

I  hear you Cynique

Are your folks telling you that things are getting better? Is there cause of immediate optimism?  What are they saying?

The situation will indeed play itself out, but not in the sense I think you mean.  You see I don't believe that the conditions that currently exist were created on their own, by pure chance.  

Great neighborhoods are not created by luck or happenstance, its take work and planning.  The same is true for bad neighborhoods. I tend to believe Chicago's south side is being set up to be "rebooted" the way Harlem, the U Street Corridor in NW DC, and other, formerly, chocolate communities have been.  

Things will get so bad in Chicago people will beg to have folks locked up.  Actually, I thought the reboot of Chicago's south side was started when they famously demolished those Taylor projects.  Where did those people go?

Some folks in Harlem projects are paranoid they will loose their homes for fear the City will turn the projects over to private management companies who will impose "market rate" rents. Sadly their are no affordable housing alternatives for people in New York City. There are many families who have occupied (been trapped really), in the projects for 3 and 4 generations!

The South Side of Chicago will definitely get better, but I doubt many of the current residents will be the beneficiaries of that improvement...

[Cynique]

Admittedly my " informants" are middle-class professionals; mostly my in-laws, one of whom is a niece by marriage and is a TV anchor on a local station.  Maybe I should say that they are more concerned than caring, because crime is spreading to all the neighborhoods via robberies, home invasions, physical assaults and of course murders. 

Everybody is encouraged by the alternative programs and services for young people  who are seeking a haven from the mean streets.  White Catholic priest and Spike Lee confidant, Father Pfleiger, who is an outspoken thorn in the side of  The Establishment, gets good marks for keeping Mayor Emanuel on the hot seat, along with the black columnists in the Chicago newspaper i subscribe to, all 4 of whom  have good street credentials and great credibility.  Jesse Jackson's Operation Push and the Urban League and particularly a group called  Cease Fire do what they do, and what they do is positive and productive when it comes to steering young people on a different path, giving moral support to victims. Certain black Aldermen serving in the city council also hold the mayor's feet to the fire and he is in serious trouble if he has any plans about running for a 3rd term, although he is desperately trying to clean up his act, making all kinds of promises for reform. 

Those creating the Chicago's violence are an underworld of outlaws, who strike fear in the whole south side. So it's not as if the populace is apathetic, because no longer is anybody immune to what used to just happen in the poorer neighborhoods.  (I don't know what happened to all the people displaced when all the projects were torn down.  Guess they just gave them section 8 vouchers and told them to find their own housing.)

From what I hear and see, you are definitely on the mark when it comes to the planned gentrification plotted by Chicago's  movers and shakers who do have big plans for crowding out poor blacks and taking over what has become prime real estate ripe for lucrative development.  

Who knows what will happen? I don't. 

 

[Pioneer1]

Cynique

So in other words......
Black folks in Chicago are just violent and crazy and there's nothing we can do about it but sit down with our faces in our hands and wait on benevolent White folks to come in with a mighty solution?

That's what I'm hearing in your one sided argument that focuses strictly on the violence and "after the fact" solutions to it rather than the causes of it.


Sure you mentioned the fact that other races make up part of that homicide rate but we know that the vast majority of those homicides are Black people being killed by other Black people.
Besides mentioning guns, you barely even TOUCH on the causes of why so much violence is going on in the community which leads me to infer that you....like others who trust the racist media in the United States who's been hyping the violence in Chicago for the past 5 years....actually believe that the residents of urban Chicago are just naturally prone to violence and the only solution must come from the outside and with brute force.

The problem isn't criminal...the problem is PSYCHIATRIC.
Those people are being POISONED with lead and other toxins that are making them violent and hyper aggressive. Not just in Chicago but in urban areas all over the nation.
Racists in the media are also doing their part by hyping up the violence in order to encourage it which is clear as a bell if you look at the statistics before and after Obama took office back in 2008. Violence in Chicago wasn't even talked about in the national media until HE took office and Fox News started drilling down on it and then other media outlets caught on and THEN the violence began to rise.


And if you think for split second that White politicians are actually concerned about the homicide rates among Black and Latino communities, you aren't as cynical as your name suggests.....lol.
Why would people, most of whom believe Blacks and Browns to be mentally and morally inferior anyway and have a vested interest in DEPOPULATING the land and using it to build more housing for wealthy Whites and Asians actually take measures to STOP the killings and stabilize the communties?

They're NOT going to stop it.
They're going to do their best to INCREASE it  because things are going exactly as planned....as THEY planned it.


The only people who will stop the violence going on in the urban areas of Chicago are intelligent and positive Black men who make up their minds to put an end to it.

[Cynique]

Pioneer said "So in other words......Black folks in Chicago are just violent and crazy and there's nothing we can do about it but sit down with our faces in our hands and wait on benevolent White folks to come in with a mighty solution?
That's what I'm hearing in your one sided argument that focuses strictly on the violence and "after the fact" solutions to it rather than the causes of it."

Cynique responds. Well, you're hearing wrong.  I didn't recommend what you accuse me of, I simply described what was going on and made no reference to expecting patronizing white people to solve black problems, and said myself that the media was hyping these murders. i'm disappointed that you would  resort to the ol straw man tactic of creating a false scenario in order to craft your response - and mount your soap box! 

If you want to think that lead poisoning and toxins are the causes of Chicago's black male population going bonkers, you are perfectly free to believe this.  I am not the one you have to convince.  The black leadership in Chicago is who you should be directing your theories to. And lotsa luck on your wish list of intelligent black men coming up with the wherewithal to combat what you identify as the problem.  This black think tank would also have to be convinced that unstable home lives, bad schools, lack of jobs  and a flawed criminal justice system are not the root causes of the problem, and that  environmental hazards that discriminate when it comes to who in the black population will be affected are, instead, the real reason for black crime.

BTW, was there a high crime rate in Flint, Michigan?

[Pioneer1]

Cynique

You didn't come right out and say it but the conclusion that you held that position..."that inner city Blacks are inherently violent and only White people in power can solve the violence problem"...is the only conclusion one can logically arrive at when they read statements like these:

-Blacks and whites and particularly the mayor do care about what's going on if for no other reason than because they have a vested interest in cleaning up Chicago's image and curbing the widespread crime that threatens everyone's safety.

-IMO, the situation will just have to play itself out because it involves changing the mindset of young black men.

-Those creating the Chicago's violence are an underworld of outlaws, who strike fear in the whole south side. So it's not as if the populace is apathetic, because no longer is anybody immune to what used to just happen in the poorer neighborhoods.

　
...from you while you offer few Black community implimented solutions besides demanding Black young men take more personal responsibility.

Clearly a thinking person like yourself understands that every action has a cause and if you aren't willing to seriously entertain the idea that Black youth are being poisioned or otherwise induced towards violence and mayhem from an intentional outside source then you MUST believe it's internally driven!

It's either one or the other......
Either Black men are just naturally more murderous and immoral than other races of men or something/someone is INFLUENCING them toward violence.
 

 

This black think tank would also have to be convinced that unstable home lives, bad schools, lack of jobs and a flawed criminal justice system are not the root causes of the problem, and that environmental hazards that discriminate when it comes to who in the black population will be affected are, instead, the real reason for black crime.

Perhaps you're a little fly on the wall and have been following me around for the past 4 or 5 months because that's EXACTLY the problem I'm dealing with right now.
Most educated and naturally intelligent White people have no problem believing and understanding the effects of lead poisioning on crime. It's most Black people both un/under educated AND educated who seem to have a hard time understanding the connection.
They point to these issues as the cause of the violence as you've just pointed out without understanding that a large percentage of each of these problems can be traced directly to the psychiatric effects of chronic neurologial poisoining. Rather than being the causes, these are actually the RESULTS of an even deeper more chemical/environmental problem.

A dysfunctional life is often the result of a dysfunctional brain that doesn't know how to think logically or make rational decisions, and this what you see among far too many Black people in the United States today.  Even most Africans who come to the United States easily recognize the intellectual problem of Black America.

 

BTW, was there a high crime rate in Flint, Michigan?

Flint is routinely ranked as one of the most violent (and half the time THE most violent) cities with over 100,000 in the United States. Like New Orleans, Atlanta, Birmingham Alabama and many other Black cities....Flint's violent crime rate is actually HIGHER than Chicago's.

In most urban areas of the United States with a high concentration of Black people you find a high violence rate. But if you go outside of the United States to places like Canada or certain Carribean islands you don't find the same level of violence.

Outside of open warfare, there is a direct correlation between the levels of violence in a given community and it's level of lead toxicity.

[Cynique]

@Pioneer1 Again you are putting words in  my mouth in an attempt to substantiate your belief which you label as logical, but don't back up with actual facts.   I never said what you italicized and put in quotes, to wit: ..."that inner city Blacks are inherently violent and only White people in power can solve the violence problem"  Also, what I cited in regard to what organizations are doing to combat the problem were not "after the fact" programs, but ones that run parallel with the ongoing violence, - alternatives made available to black youth who are looking for a different path.  

I did acknowledge that there was probably some validity to your contentions about lead poisoning, and it behooves you to acknowledge that other factors beside lead poisoning can contribute to the behavior of certain black males. Once you become fixated on lead poisoning being the reason for black crime, then it can become a catch-all scapegoat, just as racism has now become an excuse for every black shortcoming.  Doing this is ineffective because it does not empower, all it does is place blame.   

[Cynique]

@Sara Does anybody but you care about how much higher crime is in Maywood as compared to other suburbs, especially since it has been acknowledged that once Maywood became predominately black in the 1980s, it was all down hill after that?  Still trying to dispel the idea that Maywood was once idyllic, an obsession that fuels your irrelevant data.  

In referring to Chicago's high crime and murder rate, the terms "inner city" or "ghetto" have been the words of choice; not south side  And it has already been noted that not all of these murders committed were by black people. 

[Pioneer1]

LOL @ Sara focusing on Maywood......

 

Cynique

No, you didn't come right out and say that inner city Black people were inherently violent or that only Whites could solve the problem....
But that's the position you seemed to have been taking.


I have a bit of a lazy streak so I'm not going to sit here digging up links to prove to you that lead is one of the main if not THE main cause of violence among urban dwellers today.
...that along with the vaccines being used to affect the minds of our youth before they even leave the wombs of their mothers.

With the syphilis experiments, AIDS, and other well documented cases of Black people being targeted, if you and Troy still laugh at this as just a silly conspiracy theory or even decide to take a fleeting consideration of it while continuing to drill down on "broken families" or "not having enough summer jobs in the ghetto" as the REAL reasons for Black violence.....there's nothing I can do to convince you otherwise.

It's a no brainer for me.
As SOON as I heard about the lead crisis in Flint and did a quick 15 minute research on the effects of lead poisioning on the brain and behavior of people....the pieces all fit together like a puzzle.

Talk about empowerment....
There IS no power to solve a problem without knowing and accepting the TRUTH about it.
Broken families, not enough good jobs, failing schools, too many kids in gangs, high incarceration rate,  and the other ills you see in the Black communities of America are problems....but they're PERIPHERAL problems that all  stem from the MAIN problem of a declining intellectual capacity and problems with misplaced aggression in the AfroAmerican community that has been quite apparent since atleast the mid 80s.

 

 

Sara

I thought you were supposed to be "sucking up" to me to win me over as an ally!
You certainly won't accomplish that mission by challenging my positions...lol.
 

As far as the crime rate of the suburbs.
Most of those suburbs you're talking about are "inner ring" suburbs close to the city which means the municipalities are probably using the same water supply as the city of Chicago or there plumbing and water pipes are just as old and contaminated with lead.

At any rate, we must remember that there are other environmental toxins BESIDES lead that Black people are being exposed to that is also influencing our behavior.

Dick Gregory goes in and teaches very hard on this subject and exposed a lot of what we're just finding out today about lead in water and mercury in the vaccines over 20 years ago.

[Cynique]

We just have to agree to disagree, Pioneer. since you refuse to make a distinction between what I say and what you think it implies.  I repeat I have never implied that white people are who would have to fix the crime problem in Chicago.  Time and time again I have come right out and said, whether it is correct or not, that most black problems can be attributed to the breakdown of the family, and many other black people who live in the high crime area and see things first hand agree.  The baby mama/baby daddy culture is not something that white people can fix. 

LOL Because sara has no sense of direction, she continues to try and obscure the fact that the SOUTH side of the city of Chicago is where the highest rate of crime and murder tales place and all of her data and denials are just her usual devious way of trying to conceal the truth.     

 

.  

[Pioneer1]

Cynique

　

Time and time again I have come right out and said, whether it is correct or not, that most black problems can be attributed to the breakdown of the family, and many other black people who live in the high crime area and see things first hand agree. The baby mama/baby daddy culture is not something that white people can fix.

 

((Pioneer lightens up a little, sits back in his chair, and rolls his eyes))
 

Well......
Even if we were to focus on broken families as being one of the root causes of the violence, even the solution to THIS would be too shocking for many Black Americans to accept.

You're right, the problem of broken families isn't one White people can fix....for the most part only Black women can fix it.
Black women are going to have to stop leaving Black men or kicking them out of the home for "cheating".

Black men (like most Arab, Latino, and Southern European men) tend to have high sex drives and love multipe women. Ofcourse I'm generalizing because some men can settle down with one woman while some men are GAY and don't want any....lol. But speaking as a Black man I know that most desire multiple sexual partners and will have them as long as the opportunity is there. Black women have to either accept this as a fact and insist on keeping the family together for the sake of the children or maintain the zero tolerance policy.

As I said, other races of men cheat as well but their women aren't as quick to leave them because of religions or social obligations.  So regardless of the behavior of their husbands...they tolerate it for the sake of keeping the family together.  Hell, most of these non-Black women even put up with PHYSICAL ABUSE (which is unacceptable and NOT what I'm advocating) in order to keep their families together.

So until Black women are willing to swallow their pride and put up with Black men "fucking around" for the sake of maintaining the Black family, don't look for the problem to solve itself anytime soon.

Ofcourse Black women have the option of getting a non-Black man as a partner who they THINK will be more faithful, but  even if it improves the condition of certain Black women who enjoy the relationship....this union does little to improve the condition of the Black FAMILY itself.

 

The reluctance of many Black people to get abortions even when they KNOW they can't properly take care of their children is another major contributor to the problem of "broken families" in the Black community.
If more Black people actually PLANNED their own families instead of having them planned by others or just having children by mistake...more children would grow up feeling loved and wanted and not feel like their lives had no purpose.

[Troy]

For a little perspective, there were more suicides in New York City than homicides.  The total number of suicides in NYC exceeded the number of murders in Chicago or any other city for that matter.

I'm sure most of these suicides were white men.  But of course the media prefers to talk about Black dysfunction rather than that of white folks, and what the media covers drives the national dialog.

Imagine an alternate universe where Black folks ran mainstream media; we could all discuss the problems of crazy white folk killing themselves, while quietly, in the background, effectively and compassionately addressing our own problems.

The country would start to associate suicide as solely a white problem.  Of course we would ignore the root causes and not look for real solutions. We would fight over covering every single suicide first, and write stories on this disfunction day after day.  Some outlets would publish grizzly photos of the victims, or create reality TV shows. The more liberal platforms would write human interest stories of the victims.  It would be white suicide 24/7 and we would make tons of money.

But in the space/time continuum we inhabit, we focus on Black murders in Chicago.  No longer a toddlin town but Chiraq.

[Cynique]

@TroyYour observations raise a point. If the situation was reversed and black people were in power, would they grant white people freedom, justice and equality and abolish racism? Or would they simple imitate their former oppressors?  There are no heroes in the racial equation.  It's all about acquiring power and oppressing others to maintain it. 

Yes, focus is placed on the murders in Chicago but I don't think black people in the war zone who have been victimized and live in fear have a problem with the media publicizing their plight.  They'd rather have it brought to the attention of the public than have it ignored.  Reporting of these murders has garnered the attention and concern of those who seek re-election and as a result action is being taken.  Those who have a vested interest in playing down Chicago's bad image for their own financial gain are the ones who prefer news of the murders be muted.   

[Troy]

Sure the people in Chicago's south side  would like the senseless murders to end.

But media attention will not end the murders.  It is not like Obama, Emmanuel, and those in power in Chicago were unaware of the high rate of murders before the national media attention.  If anything, the media attention has provided additional fodder for the Trump campaign as he becomes the next voice for hope and change in the Black community.

As far as those with a financial interest in playing down Chitown's murder rates, who would they be?  The real estate moguls interested in gentrifying the area, the racist happy to see negroes kill each other, the prison industrial complex salivating at the additional beds they will fill, the privatized charter school looking the save the inner city with government funded schools, the media profiting by reporting on the carnage, who?

Who, other than the small business owners in the community, have a financial interest in stopping the slaughter of Black people in Chicago or anywhere else? 

[Cynique]

But what is the alternative.  To keep silent and put a lid on the news in regard to black people killing each other? Does this censorship solve the problem?  It's equivalent to thinking if the problem is ignored, it will go away and is counterproductive.    

[Troy]

No, no I'm not suggesting censorship, far from it. I'm talking about balance and treating people with love.  

Black dysfunction is paraded on TV as it it is normal while and white dysfunction is addressed.  If you are constantly barraged with images and stories of urban youth killing each other, everybody starts to believe this is the way ALL black people are like this and it effect EVERYONE.  Cops have itchy trigger fingers when it comes to Black men because they finger if Black dudes with shoot each other they damn sure will shoot me.

I'm talking about fairness.  White boys walk down the street smoke dope--no problem; while Brothers get locked up.  Then the media talks about all the Black men getting locked up for drugs.

Please don't mistake the media hyper-coverage of Black dysfunction, like the shooting in Chicago, as the same thing as solving the problem.  Obviously it is not.  The hyper-coverage is about revenue generation and the reinforcement of stereotypes. 

I have no problem of crimes being reported  But why are you, in Chicago, not reading about the white boys in New York City killing themselves every time it happens.  Why and I, in New York, getting a blow by blow update every time someone in Chicago catches a stray?

 

[Cynique]

 

Any person who reads or watches TV does know about the high suicide rate and heroin epidemic among young whites all over the country.  It does not make headlines but I see segments about this on TV programs such as Nightline and 60 minutes and read featured articles about this in the papers.  These same sources also provide me with news about young black men who are not gang bangers and who are achieving and leading positives lives. Black columnists in Chicago's daily newspapers tend to keep the subject of black on black crime in Chicago alive because they are crusaders clamoring for reform.

So you think there is a concerted effort on the part of the media to instill fear of blacks in the hearts of white people and doing so will help stifle black progress and enable white advancement and control. What, then, should blacks do to combat this conspiracy?  Stop committing crimes?????? 

[Troy]

No not exactly; the fear was already there and the media are exacerbating it because it sells papers.  The media cares little about the consequence of their actions. I'm not saying that the media are straight up racist and trying to destroy the Black community, but what difference does it make if the result is the same?

How else would you explain the sustained fear of Black men?  I mean Black men are STILL, in 2016, complaining about white women crossing the street, or clutching their purses more securely as we walk by.  O f course Black men are arrested and killed by white polices officers in numbers disproportionate to any other group of people.

Don't try saying we deserve to be treated the way we are because we commit more crimes.  We already know Black people are arrested more frequently and judged more harshly than white folks for the same acts.  If you give a man a felony conviction it not only affects his life chances if effects those of his children...

I still disagree about the coverage of white criminality and dysfunction versus that of Black people.  Try this next time you watch TV or read a paper; count the number of negative articles for Black people versus white people.  Black folks only make up roughly 13% of the population, but I'd bet you find we make up more than 50% of the negative coverage.  Let me know what you find.  

But if you can't be bothered to do it don't worry; the research has already been done and I won't bore you with conclusions you already know...

I also don't think the high rate of suicide rate in New York is commonly known.  Did you know it?  Are you suggesting it gets the same level of coverage and as the murders in Chicago? 

 

[Cynique]

When a person voluntarily kills himself/herself, this does not generate a lot of hype because it's not violent enough;suicide is also an act that does not inspire a lot of empathy from the public at large.  

A lone woman of any race is apprehensive about crossing paths with a male stranger no matter what his color or ethnicity. It's a sign of the times. Yes, a certain element of black men make it bad for all the rest. and this apparently offends the sensibilities of upstanding black men.  But, as long as they don't accost a women, then they shouldn't have anything to worry about. What do they care about  how white women react to them, anyway, - unless they yearn for their acceptance? 

I'll take your word that the media reports more black crimes than it does white, undoubtedly because it doesn't think white on white crime is that important, and that blacks don't care about it, either. 

Exposing and revealing media racial bias identifies the problem but it doesn't solve it.  Black folks have their work cut out for them.  Where do they start?    

 

[Pioneer1]

Troy

You make a good point about the suicide issue.
Most people don't know that there are actually more SUICIDES in the United States than there are homicides!
The suicide rate is higher than the homicide rate in nearly all cities in the United States.
So many people are depressed and feel hopeless.

But I still think the homicide rate is more of a threat....atleast more of an IMMEDIATE threat... to a society than the suicide rate because the violence associated with homicides usually involves so many innocent people.
Of those suicides in New York or Chicago.....how many were committed by children or babies?
But many of the innocent being shot down in the streets of America are innocent children whether by gang members targeting eachother or by their own parents who killed them along with their siblings as an ultimate form of domestic violence.

Unlike a homicide which invades other people's space; suicide is usually done in a private setting and USUALLY (although there seems to be an increasing number of murder-suicides in rural White America) involves only the individual who intends to carry out the act.

Another thing to look at is suicides usually claim one life and that's it.
Homicides claim multiple lives AND the perpetrator if prosecuted often ends up losing a large portion of their lives incarcerated or even executed.

Finally, homicides tend to lead to more homicides as the loved ones of the victim seek revenge.  Most suicides end with the act, although some people are so distraught over a loved one committing suicide that they often become suicidal themselves.

I typed all of that to say that even if the scripts were flipped, in the court of public/world opinion those who commit homicides would still be judge more negatively than those who commit suicide.
Hell, in many Asian nations suicide is seen as honorable and seen as at decent thing to do when you've shamed yourself and your family.

 

As far as the rest of your posts...........

You seem to be doing a better job pushing one of my points about how the media is fueling the violence in Chicago than I was.
But at the end of the day the question we still have to answer is WHY?

Just like we ask why would Black men continue to sell dope even after they've known for a generation that it was brought in specifically to trap them......
We also must ask why so many Black people in Chicago and elsewhere still kill eachother so readily despite all of the media coverage and the "stop the violence rallies"....where people are even getting killed at the rallies!

When this much attention is being brought to a problem yet the problem persists and in some cases even gets worse...at some point even the most intelligent minds will have to entertain the idea that something is either influencing many Black youth to be violent and crazy or out right MAKING them violent and crazy.

How bad will things have to get before the most intelligent minds in the Black community are compelled to examine ALL options and dismiss NONE until the problem is solved?

[Troy]

Why Pioneer, why?  Humm I dunno, maybe it was 300 hundred years of slavery, followed by 100 years of Jim Crow, followed by hyper-incarceration, shitty schools, poor services, and media fueled brainwashing of our people.  What do you think?  

Things will have to get MUCH worse.  It will have to touch, in a personal way, " the most intelligent minds in the Black community" that you talk about. Sure Dwayne Wade's cousin was gunned down in Chicago, but at the end of the day he is a highly paid entertainer--and this is not enough.  Again it will have to get much, much worse...

Cynique, Pioneer, the media, if they choose, can make grass growing compelling entertainment.  Crafting stories of white suicide to attract eyeballs would be easy. They just choose not to do it because they care about their community.  Black folks are obviously treated differently.  This is why the loss of Black newspapers is so devastating. But as a people we are too brainwashed to understand why this even matters.  We happily rely on Twitter for our news and information.

Cynique, of course a lone woman might be intimidated by a strange white man on the street.  But we never, ever hear white men complaining about Black women, crossing the street to avoid them.  Yes Black folks live for white acceptance and white folks don't care about ours.  So the notion of telling stories about intimidated Black women makes no sense to them. Do you see my point?  

Black people buy into the same media propagated stereotypes white people do.  So Black people too are puzzled as to why shiftless negroes in Chicago insist in blowing each others brains out. The death of Black journalism, black businesses, black schools is the death of us.

Cynique, you are being fair, reasonable, logical, and rational when you look at these issues, the media are not. So I think it is hard for you to see the inherent biases in how they report.  Dealing with media bias is simple--stop consuming it and call it out for what it is.  The power of the purse is one tool we have, but we never ever use it, because we don't know how.

[Pioneer1]

Troy

I think that with the exception of the 400 years of slavery and semi-slavery conditions, the other problems you laid out are actually more SYMPTOMS of a larger underlying problem of Black intellectual decline.

Even the loss of Black newspapers and news orientated Black media is just another sign of AfroAmerican intellectual decline.

Quite frankly,
As Black America gets dumber and dumber it no longer has the academic sophistication and standards to develop it's own media sources NOR does it's target audience have the mental capacity to understand the content being presented to them and most likely aren't even interested in stories so serious and mature.
Look at what attracts so many of our people today....entertainment full of juvenile gossip and foolishness.

We had more informative and better organized media outlets back in the 1930s and 40s than we have today.

We REALLY made a lot of progress after slavery during Reconstruction with inventions, land ownership, farming, building schools, building hospitals, and building self sustaining communities in general.  Relatively speaking we were outpacing White people in terms of growth for decades....then something happened.

Something happened to make many of our people...to put it quite plainly....STUPID.
To the point that even many immigrants.....including African immigrants...who come to the United States can easily notice an intellectual deficit in the AfroAmerican community and often take advantage of it.
 

[CDBurns]

I've been working hard on several projects so all I could do was read, but I have to ask Pioneer this, since most of the areas are being gentrified are the same pipes in use? I know for a fact that in Memphis, downtown and North Memphis has been gentrified and the projects were torn down. 

BTW Memphis on percentage has a higher murder rate than Chicago.

These projects are gone and homes and condos have taken their place. They built the homes so quickly that there isn't any way in the world that the infrastructure was replaced. By your logic in regard to lead in the water, in a few years we should see a decline in the abilities and emotional centers of White folks now living in Black spaces. We won't know if this is the case for a few years, but I hope to be around to see if this is the case. 

Now the Black folks that were relocated from the urban areas were moved to upscale, suburbs like Hickory Hill. I'm pretty sure there wasn't lead in the water in this area because they had the highest performing schools in the 70s and 80s into the early 90s until they removed Hurt Village and relocated the Black folks and now the area is known as Hickory Hood. By your logic the crime in the area is due to the lead water people, who have passed the lead water poisoning down through their genes so that now, almost 30 years later the kids are suffering from lead water genes.

A little tongue in cheek, but this is why I have such a huge problem with the idea that violence in the inner city is the result of lead poisoning because if I only use Memphis as an example 30 years ago they began removing the projects and Memphis only has one project left that is downtown. The problem with that location is that it is less than 1 block away from the new white people projects that were gentrified. There would have to be a check valve for the lead to flow one way and not the other. 

Memphis has the best water in the country due to our aquifers under ground. I do know that lead poisoning is a contributor to the issues, but the blame in our communities always seems a bit misplaced and not aimed squarely where it should be, at us. I have said this before and will continue to say it, I don't give a flying fish what the hell White folks are doing and thinking... I only care that we make decisions that are to our detriment. 

I have a question for everyone because I definitely need some clarity, is the black situation any worse than it has always been from Jim Crow through the Civil Rights period? 

I have one more question, when you have Blacks who have lived in the suburbs, their parents have worked for Fed Ex and retired, there are big subdivisions of middle class Black families throughout the city and the area has one of the newest school facilities in West Tennessee, but the same results are happening that happen at schools in a completely different zip where the people live below poverty, what is creating that issue?

[Troy]

I think the Black community, was better off 75 years ago.  America was far worse, but the Black community was superior.  We had our own media, universities, and we worked together to make due with the limited resources and freedoms we enjoyed in this country.  If the Black community was as tight as it was back then today we would be thriving.  Insteading we kneel on the sidelines or tweet our outrage while waiting for someone else to make things better for us.

But what do I know? I yield to the older folks in this regard.  What I do know is that we should be doing MUCH better than we are currently. 

[CDBurns]

That sounds like my assessment Troy. It sounds like what you are saying is an indictment of us as a group. In a much more dire situation we thrived, in a better situation we aren't. I don't know how this isn't the only discussion being held by us. The solution is really simple support each other with actions not just words.

[Pioneer1]

CD

I've been working hard on several projects so all I could do was read, but I have to ask Pioneer this, since most of the areas are being gentrified are the same pipes in use? I know for a fact that in Memphis, downtown and North Memphis has been gentrified and the projects were torn down.

 

The short answer would be........
Some of the gentrified areas are using lead tainted water mains that are part of the original system of the earlier urban infrastructures...other's aren't.  Because of this, many of the upper middle class White communities are suffering from the same problems that come from lead poisioning as the poor Black communities they replaced suffered from such as ADD, high rates of autism in their children, and violence....but more so than homicide you see SUICIDE.

As Troy was talking earlier about the high rates of suicide in New York and other urban areas where you see a lot of yuppies and "hipsters" congregated together today.
Just a generation ago those places were plagued by high homicide rates. 
Same violence, different forms of release.
When you realize that psychologically speaking ANGER and DEPRESSION are both forms of frustration that are expressed in different ways.....you realize that homicide  and suicide are both violent releases of frustration through the separate paths of anger and depression respectively.

Unlike poor Black folks who can blame poverty and racism for their violent feelings, many wealthy Whites don't know WHO to blame so they internalize their feelings until it releases itself in the form of depression and suicidal thought.
 

But a more indepth answer contains muliple compents that we need to understand:

1. I'm not saying the lead is the ONLY chemical that is poisoning the Black community.
I believe the vaccines also play a major role in the poisoning of Black children and is responsible for a dramatic decline in Black intellectual performance as well as a dramatic increase in autism and other mental problems you see among so many Black youth.
If you look at Black students who were born and raised in the United States verse your Black students from other parts of the globe...you'd have to admit seeing a type of stupidity and poor academic performance that you just don't see among unvaccinated Black children from Africa and the Carribean.

2.  Lead poisoning and it's symptoms are strongly influenced by NUTRITION and the lack of it. When a person isn't getting enough zinc  and other minerals in their daily diet then their nervous system is more likely to "suck up" minerals from the environment that are potentially toxic like lead and mercury to try and compensate. Most pediatricians and neurologists will confirm this fact.
So wealthy and well fed children can be exposed to the same environmental toxins as poor and malnurished children but still do better because their bodies aren't as quick to absorb those toxins in an attempt to compensate.


3. Realize that there are 2 groups of pipes that your water goes through before it comes out of your faucet:
1. The municiple water system.
2. The pipes from the building you're residing in.

In the case of the former residents of urban areas. 
They were getting lead from both the CITY'S old plumbing system as well as the old plumbing system of the buildings and houses they were living in.
But in the case of the recently gentrified residents, at best they're only getting lead from the old CITY'S systems....the newer buildings they're living in almost surely has no lead in them.  And in some cases even the city's pipes in the gentrified neighborhoods have been replaced so their entire homes are lead free.
So most newer White families are getting LESS than half of the lead exposure former Black families were getting.


4. Finally, keep in mind that most upper class White people in these urban areas don't trust tap water ANYWAY. Most of them drink fance bottled water at home and where ever they go and most have water filters in their homes so even if they're in the same communities as the poisoined water they and their children aren't being exposed as much.


Even if you didn't accept the factors I just listed, my argument for the lead and violence connection could still fall back on the high rates of suicides found in recently gentrified urban areas in comparison to the high homicide rates of the former residents who both shared the same water supply system to various extents.
Both groups exhibit signs of psychological distress and violence but just release them in different ways.
......but that would be low hanging fruit.

I'd rather say that although those recently gentrified White communities are and will suffer from the same effects of lead poisoning like higher rates of autism and other mental problems as well as high rates of homicide and even higher rates of suicide....they still shouldn't be expected to experience the SAME type of devastation you see in the poorer populations who occupied the areas before them because too many OTHER important factors are different.

 

[Troy]

So @Pioneer1, if you had children you would not get them vaccinated?  You believe vaccinations are a conspiracy to destroy Black people?

Man, we need Black journalists now more than ever. If not for anything else to lay these rumors to rest (or prove them to be true).

Conspiracy theories die hard even in the face of facts and truth.  Recently I decided to focus on the dispelling the Willie Lynch Letter as a hoax.  This was a hoax I pretty much thought was dead, but once I started promoting a book, Death of the Willie Lynch Speech: Exposing the Myth by Manu Ampim, which explained and proved the letter was a hoax. I was surprised by the number of people who reacted by saying it does not matter if the letter is a hoax, it is the "message" that is important.  

This reasoning nonsensical to me.  But the reality is that issues likes these are completely emotional and reasoning does not apply.  As result, we are stuck on stupid and make no progress--in fact we regress.  

I thought about removing the book, The Willie Lynch Letter And The Making Of A Slave, from my website because I was helping to promote the lie. Instead I thought it would be more impactful to post the following on the books page: "AALBC.com Note: Despite the popularity of this title on our website, the Willie Lynch Letter is a hoax"

Despite the disclaimer, the Willie Lynch letter book outsold the book dispelling the letter over the past 30 days.

Obviously conspiracy theories are not limited to Black folks. Even white people believe vaccines cause autism.  There are communities where devastating diseases that were eradicated are now on the rise, because white folks are not getting their kids vaccinated.  This puts us all in danger.

But I understand why people don't trust the government. The government has largely proven itself to be untrustworthy.  White folks believe the government is causing autism due to gross incompetence, negligence, and being owned by the pharmaceutical lobby.  Black people feel it is genocide.  These are all plausible given our government's behavior.

We are so grossly misinformed, by the shallow, sensational, revenue-seeking, social-media-driven, news cycle, we are suspect to believe anything.

Two days ago I got a social media update the Chinua Achebe recently died....

 

[CDBurns]

Pioneer I hear you and understand what you're saying. I haven't done a lot of research on this matter, so I tend to stick with what I know and that's Memphis and San Diego. I won't add LA to the mix. Your discussion points just don't fit Memphis and they don't fit San Diego. 30 years of my life between both locales establishes for me that people tend to make shitty decisions and this is what contributes to the problems in their cultures. I guess ultimately and finally I have to say I just don't believe the discussion on lead in the water bolsters your analysis of violence and lack of focus on education. 

I actually think it's a red herring and takes the focus off of where the problem really lies and that is with the individual and with the structures in place and reinforced by government laws.If I had to address government then your attachment to the discussion of lead and the water makes perfect sense because it is something that can be fixed by the government removing one of the many problems.

I guess I'm just frustrated with the lack of personal responsibility in our communities. Talking about simply reinforces my frustration which is why I spend my time creating businesses and trying to help other people do the same. That is empowering and building and inspires my day. Talking about this stuff actually drains my energy for a few minutes and then I have to refocus and remember what's important

1. Clicking through and making sure I give a pageload and impression to AALBC

2. Sharing the information I've learned by failing and succeeding in small biz.

3. Giving people support via small actions and big ones on a daily basis.

4. Being a great parent and preparing my kids for a difficult world.

I understand what you're saying, I guess reading about it just makes me feel that with so many reasons for the lack of success, why aren't we focusing on the reasons for success?

Why did you make it out? Why did Troy make it out? Why are people willing to buy the hoax instead of the remedy or truth? How do we get people to buy the good and support. I don't know.

[Cynique]

IMO,  In many ways black people, like everybody else, are better off materially than they were 75 years ago but spiritually they have lost something because they have become captivated by false values and addicted to instant gratification. And all the modern conveniences they enjoy have merely made the inconvenience of ongoing racism a little easier to endure. 

In the big picture, to me the question has always been, why have many blacks risen above their lowly circumstances  and acquired financial independence, while others have not. I agree with Chris in that it would seem to have something to do with certain people having superior coping and decision-making skills. (The same can be said about white people because they, too, have an underclass of poor people.)  Everybody is created equal, but every body is not endowed with equal intellect, abilities or talents, so when all is said and done, it really does seem to be about the survival of the fittest; or at least the thriving of the fittest. And, of course, Capitalism and Democracy are not compatible so America is a country suffering from a conflict of contradictions. Socialism is what admirably blurs the distinction between the "haves" and the "have-nots" but that form of government is stigmatized because, among other things, it stifles the free enterprise - that exploits others.   

Race inevitably enters the picture because of visible differences and a lingering xenophobia.  Naturally, the race in power strives to maintain its supremacy over those who are perceived as a threat because they are the "them" against their "us". This simple scenario plays out in the war going on between Neanderthal cops and the sons of Lucy and it will probably get worse before it gets better. 

The complicated black problem in America is entrenched.  One reason is because black apologists tend to intellectualize it, and in their analysis they start out with a premise. Then they can't figure out why the "ergo" they come up with doesn't work when tried, never considering  that their premise was a false one. Once they state the problem correctly taking truth instead of idealism into consideration, maybe the solution will be more realistic.  

[Troy]

Cynique, with a TV in every room, a cell phone in every hand, and easy access to fast food, I'm sure Blacks (and everyone else) has more material wealth today, but how are Black doing today relative to White folks when you were younger?  It would also be interesting for you to expand upon our spiritual losses

I don't put so much faith in the individual being responsible for their own success, sometimes people are victims of the situation, a situation they have no control over.  If you are a victim of a shitty school system and aggressive policing you are at a severe disadvantage.  A poor education and a warrant can put a serious damper on career prospects.

Besides I've seen too much talent get marginalized and wasted because they were not in the right "club." I've also seen people do well for themselves by being very sheisty.  Negros don't get away with this, but white folks do all day long.  The Wells Fargo scam is the latest example with the CEO being one of the highest bank Bank CEOs in the country... 

No, America is not a meritocracy.  

 

[Cynique]

We argue about this all the time, Troy.  I still say that it's better to try and emulate success than to resign yourself to replicating failure. Strong, determined people make the decision to do this. And they are able to do so because they don't bog themselves down with babies or join gangs as a way of coping. Yes, once a person does escape  his/her negative circumstances, and gets out there in the rat race, all bets are off. But those who make it out of the ghetto are street smart scrappers ahead of the game because they know how to play hard ball. They are the strong representatives of the fittest. 

Life is not fair, and goodness is rarely rewarded so meritocracy isn't even a factor.  But strong determination is a good weapon when battling for success, and there are a lot of black success stories. ( What do you call you and Chris??) What is the alternative to being self-sufficient?  For blacks it depends on the whims of the white power structure and the unity of a black support system.  Lotsa luck. 

When it came to race, I wasn't a politicized observer back during my early days growing up in an interracial town, but I would say that whites always do better than blacks, so however good blacks are doing today,  their white "peers" are doing better.  I'll get back to you on our spiritual losses.

[Troy]

I completely agree with what you just wrote Cynique.  All I'm trying to do is add to what you and Chris are saying: as a Black person you can do all the right things and still fail.  We fail with abilities and actions that result in success for white folks.  Most of it has to do with support structures white folks have in place that we are lacking.

You see, if we keep saying all you have to do is work hard and make the right decisions to succeed, you don;t do anything about all of the roadblocks that hamper the success of so many others. This is the mentality of many Black republicans who look at their own success and say, "well if I did so can you." Sure some folks escape, but we can't forget about the many others who never will--due to no fault of their own.

Yes work hard, avoid bad decisions, pray, keep your fingers crossed, and do all you can to improve your chances to succeed. But we must also be clear; there is still a battle to fight. I think we have forgotten that, and the biggest consequence of this is our lack of solidarity.

Folks like to say, "Black people are not a monolith." of course this is true, but we are treated by society as if we are, and must react as a monolith in order to enjoy the freedoms we deserve in this country.

That monolith built universities, it build communities, it build newspapers that feed and nourished our community.  Today we talk about our ability to reach others with stupid videos on Twitter, while the communities, universities and newspaper we built shutdown and struggle.  It is sickening to think about really.

A luta continua...

[Cynique]

It's been said that Liberalism espouses the idea of "lifting others as you climb", while Conservatism adopts the "I-got-mine-now-you-get-yours" attitude. Democrats are associated with liberalism while Republicans are associated with the conservatism that is not as compatible with the disadvantages that define black circumstances. 

The black unity necessary to spawn a monolith has always been prescribed as the solution to black advancement, but it never comes about because of the prevalence of black diversity. Another scenario involves asking those who have "made it" to reach back and in their own small way try to "uplift others".  An "each one, teach one" approach embraced by good role models could hopefully have a ripple effect.  I think this is probably happening more than we realize and is awakening the dormant instincts of those who are among the fittest, inspiring them to strive. But things will never be perfect because weakness is a human trait and adversity is a worldly condition.    

On 9/22/2016 at 6:27 PM, Troy said:

It would also be interesting for you to expand upon our spiritual losses

Obviously i don't have all the answers, I can just speculate and talk off the top of my head, and when it comes to yesterday's black spirit as compared to today's, I would say that back in my day, we had high spirits,  encouraged that things would get better as the civil rights movement got underway. Today, disappointment is lowering black spirits because things have started to regress.

 "A luta continua",,,       

[CDBurns]

I guess my frustration is in knowing that hard work can often accomplish very little and that doing the right thing results in the same amount of accomplishment. I don't spend much time worrying about how well or what White people are doing. I don't care to be honest. What they are doing has very little effect on my way of life.What I realize ultimately is that money wins more often than brains or talent. 

The person who has access has more opportunities. The roadblocks are there and will always be there, so talking about roadblocks does little to help overcome those roadblocks. If people actually spent an equal amount of time on the positive or things that help others to overcome then Blacks would be in a better place. Unfortunately misery loves company and a complaint garners more feedback than a solution.

In my head I think the way to fix Black folks is to frame the solution as a negative and push it out there. At that point people begin to benefit because undoubtedly the "negative" solution will garner more interaction than the positive solution.

Black life is a paradox.

[Cynique]

Paradox is right.  While our black president Obama and the 99-year-old daughter of a slave were engaged in the ribbon cutting ceremony to herald the opening of the new Smithsonian African American Museum of History and Culture in Washington, D.C., protesters were demonstrating in Charlotte, NC, over the latest killing of an unarmed black man by cops.  It's surreal.  

Hillary Haters really do need to bite the bullet and forget about not liking either candidate.  If a Democrat doesn't get in, the Supreme Court will be packed with right-wing Republican appointees who will repeal all the laws that ensured individual rights and send us right back to the last century.  Not to mention that all of those wackos who were running against Trump are now jumping on board, reportedly because he is promising them cabinet positions.  And what black voter would want to be on the same side as 2 nutcases like Omarosa and Don King??? Or worst yet, Ben Carson!

Does anyone have any arguments to offer that will make the idea of Trump as president palatable?  Please state them so I can feel less depressed about the prospect of him getting elected. I can't even bring myself to watch the debate Monday night.  I will be watching reruns on the Science channel about Ancient Aliens or Through the Wormhole or How the Universe Works.  Earth is becoming too threatening for me.  

[Pioneer1]

Troy

No, if I had children I WOULD NOT get them vaccinated.
As best I could I'd provide a healthy environment and diet for them to maintain a strong immune system.
I wouldn't worrry about them not being able to enroll in school because the schools are miseducating many Black children anyway. I'd home school them and probably give them a much better education than the local school district ever could.

As far as vaccines being a part of a conspiracy......
I don't know if they were designed to "destroy" Black people, but certainly I believe that regardless of the intent...the RESULT is that most of the MMR vaccines that have been administred to children of all races seem to have a disproportionately negative reaction in Black children and especially Black boys and it increases their rates of autism and seems to lessen the overall general intelligence of most Black boys and girls who receive them.

And I'm not the ONLY one who believes this....Rober Deniro seems to also believe it:
https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=Robert+De+Niro+autism+Black+children

Again, look at Africans from the continent who HAVE NOT received those same vaccinations and they are are smarter than White children in school and much smarter than Black American children.

You tell me what's the problem?

 

 

CD

Personal responsibility will only take you so far.
One of the reasons why people file class action lawsuits when they are victims of environmental toxins and poisonings and WIN is because the law recognizes that it wasn't THEIR FAULT that they were poisoned or exposed to toxins.

Responsibility means the ABILITY TO RESPOND.
When people are systematically being poisoned and miseducated and denied access to clean water and fresh food....they don't have the ability to respond on their own.
Only an authority higher than them has the ability to replace their infrastructure, remove the toxins from their environment, and improve their overall quality of life

As far as me making it out.
I never was really "in" the ghetto.
We weren't rich....but I didn't grow up in poverty, I grew up in the lower middle class.
Neither I nor my brothers had to struggle for food or any other basic necessity like many of my cousins and other family did. I guess that's why we have a different mentality than them and know how much better things can be than the way of life so many of them are satisfied with living.
I'm not rich now either, I'm still on the lower side of middle class but I'm somewhat comfortable by God's grace.

I had a brief encounter with poverty some years ago and found it intolerable....lol.
Years ago I had moved to a new city, hadn't worked in a while and was close to being out on the street so I woke up one morning and was so angry I got dressed and went down to the city hall and DEMANDED a decent paying job and told them I wasn't leaving the building until either security took me out or they gave me a job with decent pay and benefits.  Even talked about how I was an American citizen and had a right to life which includes work at decent pay started quoting the Constitution on them...lol.

They gave me a job.
But I decided I didn't like the city because I couldn't find a girlfriend there, so I quit the job and left town....lol.


 

[Pioneer1]

Cynique

If the Black community was better off spiritually, mentally, and socially 75 years ago than they are today it's because the water and air were purer, the food was whole and less toxic, the children weren't getting vaccinated as much....infact most Black people had their children at home instead of in the hospitals.
It was other BLACK WOMEN who helped bring Black babies into the world.
They knew the Black mother and her body.  As opposed to the sterile cold environment so many hospitals are today where White doctors don't know the Black body and don't care and would rather do a quick C-section on the mother and get it over with.

Black people had far less contact with the medical system than they do today and many older Black folks will swear than this is the reason they lived longer and healthier lives for the most part.

75 years ago most Black people in America still lived down south in rural environments where they lived off the land and pretty much maintained self sustaining communities where they relied on REAL knowledge.  Priori knowledge gained from observing nature instead of artificial knowledge given to them by White academia.

Infact, even TODAY if you keep up with who's the oldest people living in America it's usually a Black man or woman (usually a woman) who was born and raised in a rural or near rural environment.
That shows you how healthy Black folks were in the past as opposed to many of our people today.

You know something isn't "right" about a lot of Black people under 50.  They aren't thinking as quickly and act more "apish" and "buffoonish" than past generations.  You know as a kid you and most Black children were "quicker" than White children.  Many of these kids aren't.  They even talk slower and seem to be more "absent minded".

They're also less CREATIVE than their parents and grand parents were and you can tell this by listening to the music and how much it has declined decade by decade from originality to sampling and now inaudible mumbling and straight garbage.

Most of these kids don't even know how to PLAY a musical instrument let alone INVENT one like their grand parents used to.  Did you ever think you'd see the day when White men are better on the saxophone or on the piano than Black men?


I remember going down south as a kid and seeing how my aunts used to make soaps and lotions from scratch.   Black women used to can and jar all types of foods that they grew in their own gardens.  Black men at 70 could put on a pair of overalls and build an addition his house or build a big house from scratch with his sons.  I didn't see them build machines like tractors but they could FIX anything that was built!

How many Black folks are out building ANYTHING today?
If something goes wrong with your house or car you call a White man or a Mexican to repair it.

What happened?

If you take a SERIOUS look at the generation of Black Americans born between the late 60s and today, something has happened to many of them MENTALLY.
It's as if their mental development has been arrested.
 

[Cynique]

No, Pioneer, black people were not healthier 75 years ago than they are today.  Check the life expectancy of black folks 75 years ago.    And before then, there was a high mortality rate among poorer children with many doing good to make it to their 10th birthday,  dying at birth, or succumbing to such diseases as diphtheria, and typhoid fever.  They also suffered from rickets and whooping cough and other debilitating childhood diseases such measles and mumps. Mothers frequently died in childbirth from such things as child bed fever.Tuberculosis also impaired the health of or eventually killed off a lot of black people  Later, vaccinations wiped out all of these diseases as well as small pox and polio. Better medicine also dramatically lowered the death rate from TB. Now, as Troy noted, these diseases are making a come back, thanks to the anti-vaccine community, many members of which have been influenced by celebrity parents of autistic children, looking for an excuse to blame for their less than perfect children.

My generation was vaccinated with the DPT serum that eradicated Diphtheria, Typhoid Fever, and Pertussis(whooping cough) and we were also vaccinated against small pox.  Anybody my age, still has their vaccination scar on their upper left arm.   We were routinely given these shots in school in the lower grades.  It may have been different in the south, however.   

There are risks and side effects associated with any medication including preventive vaccines  but the odds are overwhelmingly in favor of the benefits out weighing the risks.

A lot of things have contributed to the degeneration of the species, including television and the computerization technology that spawned smart phones, video games and the Internet.  I would add that food additives and crop spraying may also be culprits.  As for vaccines, I go with erring on the side of caution.   

 

[Troy]

Pioneer, I agree with Cynique.  The fact supports everything she wrote.

I would also emphasize that you can't generalize your observations to the whole.  There are more plausible emplainations to many of your observations.

For example, very old women today usually grew up in the south because the vast majority of Black people lived in the south then.  50 years from now the oldest Black people will have been raised in cities, because that is where the vast majority of us live today.

You can't look at African immigrants and assume they have the same characteristics as the ones still in Africa.  The ones in our universities are the best and the brightest Africa has to offer.  Even the ones starting out as cab drivers are the most motivated people and are not representative of everyone still on the continent.

Also, in cities like NY the entire environment was far more polluted 100 years ago.  They dumped raw sewage into the the rivers, horses shat all over the street and the air reeked from burning of trash, factories, etc.  It is definitely cleaner today

If a 50 year old is not thinking as quickly it is because everyone's mental capacity declines over time, that is normal.

I'm not arguing with you about what we may have lost spiritually, because i think we have lost something.  Over my short life seeing everyone connecting to devices 24X7 is unnatural.  Our complete separation from nature as seen in our massive urban centers is unnatural as well.  I assume neither is beneficial, but I can't really say how bad it is relative to the beneficial tradeoffs.  

I would be willing to bet that the loss of spirituality due to our disassociation from nature and slavish devotion to corporate controlled technology has had more of an adverse impact on the brothers on Chicago's west and south side than vaccines.  They could be dying from diphtheria or typhoid fever. Wouldn't you agree?