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Pioneer1

Why Did So Few Blacks Turn Out For Hillary?

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I'll tell you why.......


Black voters didn't come out for Hillary for the same reason most of them didn't come out for Trump...NEITHER ONE of them really offered us anything!

Atleast Trump would mention the Black community in a rather facetious if not condescending way in passing:

"And the Blacks...ya know....the Blacks have it so rough now"

"I mean come on, ya live in the ghetto and have rotten schools, what the hell have you got to lose"

Now does Trump give a damn about "the Blacks"?
HELL no....and no one with good sense expects him to.
But Hillary Clinton never offered a decent alternative

She never offered the Black community anything of substance like solid plans to rebuild the inner cities, promises of universal healthcare, or promises to bring back good paying manufacturing jobs to urban areas, ect......
All we heard from her during her campaign was just more of the same rhetoric we hear from most Democrats today which is a focus on women's issues, LGBT issues, and at the very end if at all Black issues are lumped under the label of "diversity" along with others like Muslims and Latinos.

Black people had a right NOT to be very enthused about the prospect of her becoming President.

Her apathy and indifference to Black America was louder than Trump's bigotry.

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It was her apathy towards White Women that killed her. That voting block is the biggest and they sided with their husbands against a woman who couldn't keep her mans thang in his pants. Hillary never used what would have worked the best for her, being a mother and a grandmother. She never made herself human. That was her biggest mistake.

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@Pioneer1Well, just what was it that Hillary was saying in all of her speeches and appearances during the final weeks of her campaign that was apathetic toward black folks? Have you checked out the platform she ran on? If raising the minimum wage and advocating early learning programs for children and affordable health care wouldn't help black folks, I don't know what would.  If promising to repeal harsh laws for minor offenses and presenting her plan to create jobs by repairing America's deteriorating infra structure, wouldn't help blacks I don't know what would. If her call for an end to racism and xenophobia didn't include black folks, I don't know what would. She did, after all, incorporate a lot of Bernie's progressive agenda into her platform and she was very visible at black venues. And  just because the black turn out wasn't quite as high as it was for Obama doesn't mean that millions didn't come out in droves to vote for her.     

@CDBurns I agree that Hillary was so eager to prove that she was as tough as a man that she came across as heartless. But she was damned if she appeared soft and damned if she didn't.  BTW, the white pants suits she frequently wore were a tribute to The Sufragettes who always wore that color when marching to win the vote.  

IMO, the reason she lost was because she was so busy trying to appease minorities, that those red neck and rural yahoos got insulted, along with the cop-loving middle class bigots who felt slighted and, of course, the tight-assed Bernie supporters and clueless Millennials who wasted their votes on the Green and Libertarian candidates also helped to do her in. Finally, a lot of men didn't vote for her simply because she was a woman. :angry: Hillary Clinton lost because she had too many hurdles to clear, some of which were put in her path by her husband's philandering and by people who wanted to spite President Obama and blemish his legacy.  She fought the good fight but her gut instincts failed her, and she relied too much on the polls. Still, why put all the blame on her?  She did win the popular vote. And had she won she would've still been better for blacks, than Trump.  

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Hillary did not make herself human until her concession speech, where you could see the genuine hurt and disappointment she obviously felt. 

Pioneer, Blacks did come out to Hillary she got 88% of the Black vote.  I have not seen the figures on how many people that represents.  If you have them please post a link; it would be interesting to see those figures.  

Democrats have had the Black vote on lock for years, why promise us anything?  Obama never did and he is Black.

Cynique, I'm not sure the 3rd party votes did Hillary in.  It is not clear how many of those voters would have voted for Clinton without the 3rd party option.  Besides in places like OH and NC, even if Hillary got all of the 3rd party votes, it would not have made a difference in the results.

But as you suggest it was not just one thing that hurt Hillary.  I voted for her, but she did not need my vote, she won NY by 1.5 million votes.  I almost not did bother to vote for that reason, but changed my mind at the last minute, and am glad I did because I contributed to the popular vote giving Hillary that "win," which at least shows what the majority of people wanted, for what it is worth...

We will never know who would have been better for Black people.  I never had that much faith in Hillary, and I don't believe it is possible for Trump to do as much damage as many Black people believe he will do.  

Time will tell.

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I say Hillary would be better for Blacks and Progressives because she is a Democrat who would've nominated candidates for Supreme Court vacancies that would've given Liberals a majority.  Now, all of the rulings favoring women, gays, blacks, health care and gun control, voting rights, etc.,  are in danger of being reversed by a conservative dominated court that will undo all these advancements, sending  America back to the oppressive times when it was supposedly "great".  

Donald Trump doesn't know whether he's coming or going and I don't think he's a genuine conservative. It's the people who will surround him that are the true threat.  Vice president Pence, if he wields any power, is an Evangelical who will have no qualms about  trying to turn this country into a theocracy.    Oh me. 

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IMO the polls did not show an ethnicity breakdown.They could only rely on the old census population. I don't trust polls.

That said, there are several reasons but I won't get into all of them. I watched the news comparing the 2008 & 2012 numbers turn out for President Obama against Clinton's 2016 polls. Wrong! All black generations and ages voted for the first black man to run for president. Many had no idea how Washington actually worked and didn't care. They just wanted their "son" elected to the highest office in the world. Many African-Americans did not see that wall erected against this "Negro."

One of the oldest Republican politiations made the remark, ok he's in but he will not see a second term, but he did. And that's when that brick wall became stronger.


Back to Clinton’s campaign. Her managers refused to admit that she was the wrong color in comparing turnouts. And that some black folks remembered how President  Clinton waged war against black men and the poor. Her managers were in denial.


Yet, President Obama understood, read the tea leaves, and campaigned for Hillary to the point of exhustion. In unspoken words he said, if you love me elect Hillary Clinton. He was fighting for two issues , his legacy and blocking Trump.

Finally the Democrats realizing that Trump had his finger on the pulse of America and jumped in too late to help Hillary Clinton.

I supported Bernie Sanders until the Democratic Party smothered him to save Hillary. Then my only choice was Hillary.

What I learned is nearly half the nation is indeed prejudice. 

Trump doesn't care about what he sees happening. What he realizes is that he now has power to go along with his billions. He is a businessman and a smart marketer.

Nevertheless, someone had better step in and block those campaign promises he made before America is "drained."

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Donald is conservative, in so far as it is profitable.

It is fascinating that the same person can appeal to both racists and evangelicals.  Then again, given the history of this country that makes perfect sense...

@mzmina, glad to read your ideas here, I think more readers will have the opportunity to enjoy your thoughts here too.

I too supported Bernie and reluctantly voted for Hillary, but I'm not convinced that all Trump supporters are racist.  In fact, I'd say that most are not.  Many people who voted for Obama in the last election voted for Trump this time.  I think it is easy for us to assume all Trump supporters are racist, but all this does is prevent us from understanding why he was elected.

Also, a significant number of Black leaders supported Hillary over Obama--virtually the entire NY State democratic party supported Hillary in the primary including Rep. Charlie Rangel, and former NY City Major David Dinkens. Of course, they all got on board with Obama due to the overwhelming support of the masses.

While all racists almost certainly voted for Trump, that does not make all Trump supporters racists.

I think our country's biggest problem is our failure to educate our population.  As a people, we are dumb, unread, parochial, tribal, ill-informed, self-absorbed, and easily led. Shoot we should even be allowed to vote... What Trump's election illustrates is not racism but stupidity.  Stupidity in the media, our electoral process, and our population.

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Guest BLB

I think many blacks have either become apathetic toward politics in general, are poorly informed thanks to the lack of emphasis on knowing how the government works in our school systems, or expected Obama to cater to them and were too jaded after Bernie's loss to vote for Hillary. They didn't bother to look at her actual policies or the bigger picture of Congress.  I don't think a politician should have to offer specifically to help blacks if their platform has policies that are geared to support underserved communities and pick up where the economy fails, because that's where minorities suffer. Trump condescendingly addressed the black community merely to put us down and I pity any black people who fell for his overtures when he profits directly off business failures and putting people of all races out of work. Pointing out failure is not the same as offering solutions to it.But blacks  who demand their specific needs be addressed all the time risk making their chosen politicians unpalateable and unelectable in a country where we only make up 15% of the population and a large percentage of us legally can't vote. Honestly everyone was expecting Hillary to win so easily a lot of people foolishly sat this one out. 

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IMO, racists come in varieties; 2 of which are malignant ones and benign ones.  I can't think of any reason why a person who voted for Trump wouldn't fall into one of these categories because anybody who wasn't a racist could've always voted for the Green or Libertarian candidate if they couldn't stomach Hillery.  Those citing their worries over the economy as the reason for supporting Trump, voted for him because they chose to ignore Hillary's well-thought out plan to improve the economy over Trump's empty promises.  What with Trump symbolizing a resentment toward Blacks, Mexicans, Muslims, Gays, Gun control and Planned Parenthood, then anyone who decided to overlook all of this and cast their ballot for Trump and all of his baggage may not be a blatant racist but is most likely a closet one.

Yes, there are racists among Democrats but they are of the paternalistic third variety and their biggest sin is that they are do-gooders who think they know what's best when it comes to interacting with minority groups. They are also found among those who advise that now that Trump has won, he should be given a chance to prove himself.  Easy for them to say.  They are white people and don't have a lot to worry about a presidency that has the restoration of white supremacy as its implied goal.  

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Cynique I know a Black man, who voted for Trump.  He chose Trump because of Trump's promise to lower taxes.  Of course, this brother was not unique, because 8% of Black people who voted chose Trump. So unless there is 4th category of racist the Trump-supporters-are-all-racist narrative does not wash.    

As far as giving Trump a chance, that point is moot because the man won what else can be done?  I'm stockpiling weapon and building a bomb shelter. :o

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Guest Phyllis Dixon

I went to the NAACP convention this summer and went to hear Sec'y Clinton's speech.  The room was full but not packed.  I told my friend that was not a good sign, and I hoped it was not indicative of voter apathy.  There would have been standing room only for President Obama.  It is unrealistic to expect Black voter turnout to reach the levels seen for President Obama.  That was historic and people were hopeful.  I think many of them were first time voters and were disappointed and feel like their situations didn't change much, even with a black President, so why bother?  Another thing with younger voters, they have not experienced having to chose between two evils.  They voted for Pres. Obama, but those of us "of a certain age" know sometimes you are voting against someone, rather than for someone.  Also I think those of us "of a certain age" need to keep preaching about the importance of voting and reminding friends and family members about the progress that has been made and what the consequences can be - especially the Supreme Court.

Bottom line - They wanted "their" country back. 

Also, I'm not usually a conspiracy theorist, but I do believe the Russians had something to do with it.  Have heard nothing else about emails.  Someone needs to follow the money trail...

 

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Guest QueenX

All Donald Trump did was run his mouth when  asked "what do black folks have to lose?" in voting for him.He saw himself losing so he wanted African-Americans to" save his skin".He ain't never done nothing for us and won't do anything now.;

Any black person who didn't vote for Hillary or  stayed home deserves whatever happens to them during the Trump Administration.

 

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@Troy I was talking about Trump's white voters being racists.  Black people can be stupid but they can't really be racist because they are not a member of a race that has the power to effectively enforce their racism.

 

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OK speaking only about white voters; how would you classify a white 2012 Obama voter, who voted for Trump?  Did they just turn into a racist, or are they just stupid?

Again, I'm quite willing to concede that some very stupid and racist people (both Black and white) supported Trump; I do not think Trump's success can be explained away so simply.  It is believing that simple explanation which is what shocked so many people...

If you seriously believe only stupid people and racists voted for Trump, then you believe that accurately describes 1/2 the country's population.   Rather, I think we are simply a population uneducated and ill-informed people--but not stupid people.

Today Trump appointed another ex-Goldman Sachs billionaire to run Treasury... here we go!

 

 

 

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The white people voting for Obama were Liberals who epitomize the benign brand of racism, the kind who consider themselves color-blind which, in itself, is a form a racism, the implication being that they don't see black people as black, - as if to do so is to degrade them.  Several of my black FaceBook friends tell how the white friends who they once consider unprejudiced, showed their true colors when it came to supporting Trump.  Once instance on FB was posted by a black girl telling how she and her white boyfriend broke up after he started explaining why he supported Trump.  The same thing occurred decades ago when the reactions to the verdict in The OJ Simpson trial was split right down the middle, divided by race, and the most liberal of whites were right there among the rest of their race, indignant over this black man not being found guilty of killing a young, blue-eyed, blond white woman..  

As for being stupid, the bulk of white people voting for the "Republican" Trump, as astute observers have noted, were stupidly voting against their own interests under the guise of making America great again, and restoring the freedom to indulge their bigotry. Blacks who went for Trump were sell-outs voting in their own self interest, hoping for personal gain by doing so, or those who were bamboozled into thinking Trump would solve black problems, or were simply people who chose to cut off their noses to spite their faces since Bernie didn't get the nomination..  

Of course there are always truth tellers who transcend race such as white news commentator, Bill Moyers, who wrote a very insightful piece, echoing what Toni Morrison said about Donald Trump's success being the result of white people fearing that their white skin was losing its value, and in danger of being obscured by people of color, and who wanted to regain and fortify their white supremacy status, putting the power back in the hands of white rich men where they think it belonged.  

Actually, xenophobia and racial bias are natural to people with a tribal mentality so what I opine is not necessary an indictment of those who are loyal to their own kind. It's the way of the world. It's just that poor ol black folks have never secured the opportunity to gain the upper hand that would enable them to rule over and oppress white people.

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OK, Cynique, maybe you are right.  Perhaps I'm giving the American people too much credit.  Maybe the non-racist folks, who would select a president based upon our collective benefit, rather than only their own self-interest, is so small as to be insignificant.

As a side note: I always take what I read, people write about themselves, on social media with a grain of salt.  People are crafting an image, the very same was a company crafts their brand's image.  People, they say things the want people to read--often to elicit praise, compassion, and maybe even envy.  In any case, the people we see on Facebook are incomplete, perhaps caricatures of themselves.

So when someone says they cut off a white friend, they had no idea was racist, until they voted for Trump.  I question the motivation for making the statement, and therefore the statement itself.  Did they write that to make themselves look strongly principled? If so, why?  Strongly principled people do need to broadcast the information... I would question the depth of their "friendship" with their white friend.  Do you mean to tell me they did not have a clue their so called friend was racist until they voted for Trump?  

Again I look at what people say about themselves online with a grain of salt, and definitely would not use it bolster an argument.

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Well, there have been an outpouring of op-ed pieces about how this election split families, broke up marriages, ended friendships, and also about how Hillary's loss cast a pall of depression over her supporters. My Facebook friends chimed in on the articles, saying they, too, had fallen out with white friends. The black girl who wrote about breaking up with her white boyfriend, posted a picture of him and her together.  After all, there is,  an element among benign white racists who boast that "some of their best friends are black", and they act accordingly until the chips are down. But, who knows? I, myself, had caught up with an old white high school acquaintance on FaceBook a while back, and although we didn't unfriend each other, we did clash over our views on Trump and have had very little to say to each other since. I, however, knew all along that she was a closet racist and a conservative Republican and her "friendship" wasn't really important to me.

In my eagerness to label other people I have to confess that I, myself, can probably be labeled a bigot of sorts. I know I am expending energy on hate, but I really am filled with intense dislike for everything right-wing conservatives represent. And feeling this way, I find myself ignoring or muting any news reports regarding Trump and his entourage because I am sick of hearing or seeing or reading about them.  Maybe if I ignore them, they'll go away.  Not.

 

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On 12/1/2016 at 8:40 AM, Troy said:

As a side note: I always take what I read, people write about themselves, on social media with a grain of salt.  People are crafting an image, the very same was a company crafts their brand's image.  People, they say things the want people to read--often to elicit praise, compassion, and maybe even envy.  In any case, the people we see on Facebook are incomplete, perhaps caricatures of themselves.

This above paragraph was so on the mark and so full of insight that it bears repeating.  It describes most of the people I interact with on social media to a "T" and since the shoe also fits me, I am wearing it.  I confess to putting my best foot forward on FaceBook, posting happy pictures and basking in the "likes" my little-mini-editorials and witty snippets receive, as I dutifully "like" what my relatives and friends say, even if I don't agree with or couldn't care less about what they have posted - and this includes my granddaughter who spams her wall with daily pictures of her baby, and my oldest son whose favorite subject is himself, and the Jesus freaks relentlessly soliciting  prayers and ":amens"!  Enough, already! 

I have also subjected my FaceBook friends to "Throwback Thursday" pictures of me during the hey day of my youth, and I duly alert them to the news that I will be venturing out into the night to view any extraordinary celestial phenomena appearing the sky. Yawn.  

My true self emerges, however, when I take on my troll persona and argue with and insult and deflate strangers obnoxiously comfortable and confident in their skewed views. (People like the infamous "sarah" who polluted this forum with her goal to make us over in her image.)  

Then, there are the new friends and old acquaintances with whom I have bonded, and am on the same page with, or who are intellectually stimulating even I don't agree with them. They make it all worthwhile.

And what is the "take-away" from this self-absorbed rambling? FaceBook, is, indeed, the demograph for my brand, which is "Confetti". I flutter all over the place.     

 

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We are all guilty of it.  Several years ago I posted photos of myself as the world traveler, always doing fun things with interesting people, while selflessly advocating for Black people and literature. While that is is actually part of who I am, it is not a complete picture of myself.  In fact, it was even a picture of myself I particularly care for... because "Facebook Troy" never struggled (unless it was for others) or made a bad decision.  He wasn't human.

Of course, there is Facebook's manipulation which is what actually motives us to contribute.  I despise this aspect of Facebook, so I just opted out using Facebook for sharing personal stuff and only use it for sharing links back to AALBC.com.

@Cynique, you hit on exactly how Facebook manipulates us:

“…as I dutifully "like" what my relatives and friends say, even if I don't agree with or couldn't care less about what they have posted.”  

I've done exactly the same thing, and all this does is feed the monster that is making Facebook rich at our expense.  As we “Like” the things we don't really like, we encourage people to share even more because of the ego boost the get from receiving likes.  People feed off of these likes, and we might even feel bad or guilty if we don't click the like buttons ourselves.

The only reason I care about any of this is that as people spend more and more time on Facebook the rest of the internet is crumbling around us.  News sites are struggling, as fake news goes viral on Facebook.  As far as content important to Black people goes, I've already beat that horse to death...

Sadly, trying to explain any of this to most people is people is a waste of time...

 

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The bottom line is that Hillary lost because she sucks as a human being, a woman, and a politician.  She never had a substantive message except what she stole from Sanders/Warren and rehashed from Obama.  She told one whopper of a stupid lie after another as if ppl were too dumb to know that she was lying, Wikileaks exposed her and her cronies' plotting, scheming and corruptness, she belittled ALL voters when she called the electorate "deplorables" (ain't that the pot calling the kettle) and all the other missteps that were the mark of an amateur - not the seasoned politician her befuddled, deluded mind thought she was.  That entire email server fiasco might have been fine if she used it for her personal business (raising money for her presidential campaign while SOS) and used the State Dept server for official govt business like all other govt employees are required to do.  One of her excuses for the illegal email setup was that the State Dept's email system was antiquated.  If that was really the case, wouldn't that have been her responsibility to correct as the HMFIC?  She was unable think on her feet since she required debate/interview questions in advance and placed plants in the crowd during audience question events, and she needed to debate prep for several days to practice her lame zingers.  The woman can't even run her own husband but she's going to preside over the rest of us?  WTF?  And then there was Bengazi, Whitewater, Goldwater and on and on.  Have y'all seen all of the negative books that have been written about her?  I guess she thought that by employing Lebron, Beyonce and J-Lo we Black ppl were all going to fall in line.  I think that after she got beatdown by Obama in 2008 she should have sat her flat behind down then instead of wasting everybody's time.  I'm so relieved that I won't have to see her howdy-doody looking face anymore.  I'd rather deal with a crazy unpredictable President Trump any day.

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@Mzuri  Well, well, well.  Where ya been, girlfriend?  Obviously spending a lot time reading the fake news, which has made a  living off of skewering Hillary with out-right lies and half truths. She was never charged with any of the things she was accused off in regard to Benghazi and the E-mails servers because the hearings that were held, absolved her of these partisan accusations.  Admittedly she was no saint but your ad hominen attack is a bit over the top and I'm disappointed that you would use a different standard to judge a woman candidate for president who did, indeed, advocate a progressive liberal agenda that represented the Democratic Party, than the standard that you would apply to all of the corrupt, lying, womanizing, wishy-washy, male scoundrels who seek office.  

And I really can't believe that an intelligent woman like you would superficially characterize Hillary as looking like Howdy Doody, considering how ridiculous the bloated, mop head, orange-skinned clown she was running against looks, the egocentric loose cannon lecher and dishonest swindler who has surrounded himself with white nationalists, religious zealots, incompetent campaign contributors and suck-up former rivals, the petulant Russian lover who you'd rather take a chance on. C'mon.  Admit it.  Your hate of Hillary is irrational as is your embrace of a Twitter-happy case of arrested development who is at the helm of a country that will be delivered into the hands of rich, self-serving, white males by a bunch of deplorable xenophobic, misogynistic, homophobic racists who voted against their own self interest because Trump made it acceptable for them to be bigots, and conned into thinking he will make this jive-assed country "great" again.   Puleeze.   

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Hey Mzuri good to see your contribution!

While I agree with the spirit of your statement, your logic breaks down; if Hillary lost because she sucks as a human being, how would you explain Trump's win?

Cynique, you realize your statement "... ridiculous the bloated, mop head, orange-skinned clown...the egocentric loose cannon lecher who has surrounded himself with white nationalists, religious zealots, incompetent campaign contributors and suck-up former rivals, the petulant Russian lover..." is the very definition of ad hominem attack.

I think we can all agree both Hillary and Trump are liars, willing to say whatever they think will get them what they want power and money.  Even though Hillary's lies resonated with more people, Trump won the election.

We will really see, in 4 years, what the people think.  Hopefully the democrats can come up with a suitable alternative....

 

 

 

 

 

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LOL Ad hominem means essentially to attack the messenger instead of the message.  Trump has no discernible, consistent message, and the gist of both my physical description of him and my assessment of his staff were fairly accurate, in "my-fight-fire-with-fire" response to Mzuri.  

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"...when they go low we go high." ;)

In the streets, that advice does not work very well.  Like "just say no," it sounds good, but in practice 'fighting fire with fire' is often the optimal strategy

 

 

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Hey Troy!!!  And Cynique!!!  I never stated that I hated Hillary.  I was simply explaining to you disillusioned DummyCrats some of the reasons why Hillary lost and that IMO she should never have run for POTUS the second time around after she got beat by Obama the first time.  What a friggin waste of a BILLION dollars!!!  You are doing lots of reading between the lines to conclude that I approve of The Donald since I did not say one positive thing about him.

BTW - I saw y'alls picture together a few months ago - the two of you are so adorbs  :)

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Mzuri, I too get that, "you must be a Trump supporter." reaction if I say something critical of Hillary or attempt the explain the appeal of Trump.  Too many people see the world solely through the lens of race.  In reality, the world is much more complex.  I also believe money and power are, sadly, much greater motivators than race.  

Racism is a tool of the powerful to manipulate the masses, and Trump played that tune like a virtuoso. 

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You 2 want to have it both ways by virtue of the fact that your patented criticism of Hillary, under closer scrutiny, is more like echo than fact, your citing of the same ol half-truths spread by her detractors over a 25 year period, your refusal to accept that hearings cleared her of recent charges, your blaming her for the sins of her husband, your holding her to a higher standard when it comes to financial shenanigans on a par with wheeling and dealing male politicians. There's never any consideration given to her credentials as compared to the resume of the lewd, egocentric, dishonest Trump, shortcomings that you gloss over while casting yourselves as objective  analyzers of Trump's victory.

And I, like many others, don't single out race as the one reason for Trump's victory. I'm just not letting the so-called forgotten white working class people including the evangelical zealots off the hook. There's an undeniable reason why these people would go against their own interests by voting for a lecherous billionaire darling of corporate America. Trump did, indeed, play into the bigotry that goes hand-in-hand with white skin entitlement.  This is not to be dismissed as secondary because white skin is very relevant when it comes to global power and all of the high finance this involves.

'Just sayin'...

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Cynique that first paragraph was a poor characterization of my position and feeling.  Besides, I actually cast a vote for Hillary--unlike the many people who claimed they were against Trump.  

 

 

 

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OK, I give you credit for voting for Hillary while holding your nose.  I was just basing my response on some of the things you would say when I would try to promote Hillary.  LOL 

 

 

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