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Hey Del would you define magic?  

For example, would waving a wand over someone who died 100 years ago and resurrecting them be considered magic?  

How about extracting DNA from a dead person and cloning them, would that be considered magic?

Something that was considered magic 100 years ago is simply science today.

Perhaps the same could be considered for whatever you consider magic today.

I'd define magic as an occurrence which can not be explained scientifically.  So I believe in magic.

What we perceive as magic is often the result of an over active imagination or tricks and quirks in human perception. 

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Troy raising the dead is a miracle or necromancy. No, Magic is to align yourself with the universe and enhancing or effecting a change. Dark Magic is going against the natural flow, by using your will to dominate a situation or a person Divintion is a type of Magic, casting spells is also a type of magic.

Mel is that a yes for experience possibility or both? If you feel comfortable can you share your experience.

 

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5 hours ago, Delano said:

Troy raising the dead is a miracle or necromancy. No Magic is to align yourself with the universe and enhancing or effecting a change. Dark Magic is going against the natural flow, by using your will to dominate a situation or a person Divination is a type of Magic, casting spells is also a type of magic.

Mel is that a yes for experience possibility or both? If you feel comfortable can you share your experience?

 

 

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14 hours ago, Delano said:

Mel is that a yes for experience possibility or both? If you feel comfortable can you share your experience?

@Delano I like that idea and yes I will share my experiences.  I've only shared my knowledge of magick in my debut novel.  I've always been too embarrassed to share the practice publicly, the fact that I used to practice magick and how today, I'm still energized by the subject means I shouldn't ignore it.  

As you mentioned there are many levels of magick and they can overlap.  When working within nature there's a real possibility to invite those in from other dimensions that may revel in destruction.  This is what I found when I was completely immersed in the practice.  As an alchemist, you have to be mindful of your vibrations (energy levels) at all times.  Sadness low energy/ low chi brings about forces who are "hellbent" and destruction and those forces will use your low vibrations to complete any task. 

I was once so sad that I was laid off from my job that I made myself sick with fever.   I drifted off to sleep and felt as if I was on fire.  I began to toss and turn from what I thought were the effects a high fever. As I rolled over in my bed - my former co-worker text me to tell me my immediate supervisor and my departmental co-worker were trapped in the office and the section of the office building was on fire. They got out unharmed but very much shaken  The fire investigation revealed ongoing construction in that section of the building as the cause.  

 

Edited by Mel Hopkins
add a sentence.
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Even before I was conscious of magick I was a believer. I also think that the space or distance between this world nad the magickal ealm is getting thinner. And you will see more birth pains protest and humanitarian action. Culminating on November 20, 2024. Which I feel is the dawning of the age of Aquarius. That year will be the first time that all of the planets have entered Aquarius.

 

Thanks for retelling your story. Magick is everywhere you just have to open your eyes.

 

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Is magick the same as mysticism?  Some of those who've studied Christianity have concluded that the miracles attributed to Jesus were the work of a Mystic and that's what he was, rather than what the bible declared him to be.

The mind-over-matter meta-physical concept is something I consider a form of magick and if you can just get in synch with certain forces, this dynamic can work.  I have been fascinated by this subject for years.  And at one time experimented with "pyramid power", meditating inside of a collapsible one which could be purchased during the new age craze back in the 1960s. This was a relaxing, mind-expanding experience which could've been brought on by the magnetic rearrangement of molecules, the pyramid shape was supposed to bring about. 

With the exception of one blood pressure pill,  I have currently discontinued all of the medications routinely prescribed to me because the annoying side effects and questionable benefits were "cures" worse than the ailment.  I have, instead, replaced these pills with natural holistic remedies which I feel have worked for me as well as pharmaceuticals. I also practice auto-suggestion, planting in my subconscious mind before I go to sleep at night, instructions for my body to cure any existing diseases on its own.  I have had some encouraging success with all of these alternatives. However, I probably would be more diligent and conventional where my health is concerned if I was younger.  But now, I just call my own shots and go with the flow.  

I also have a theory that prayer is a form of magick.  It's energizing a wish, and when it works, this has nothing to do with religion, but more to do with exercising the inner power that has been shared with us by the greatest magician of all: our Creator and the Master of the Universe...

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@Delano, sure given that definition of magic--absolutely! I can give you many examples. But closer to home, meeting you is an example. Some might call it serendipity others might say coincidence, still other may say it is if no consequence. But I think it is more than that...

My connection with @Mel Hopkins and @Cynique is more of the same. 

I agree with Cynique in that prayer, meditation and other similar practices are our attempts to realize what you call magic. Unfortunately the dogma of religion and people who exploit spirituality for profit pervert our attempt to connect with the universe. I'm reading a book on native Americans and their closeness with nature... they seem be wiser that those with advanced degrees

Sadly corporations have exploited technology that could help bring people closer and turned it into our obsession for their profit.

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To what all of you have written... YES!!!

My journey into the occult began with the scriptures .... Those scriptures not recognized and canonized reveal so much - After a deliberate search, the words had me wondering if it were a handbook for angels. 

If a magician has a specialty, mine would be oneiromancy (dream interpretation); psychography (automatic writing) and  I can, as it seems to be the case with @Cynique and @Troy , read energy.  It extends beyond presence to include when someone thinks of me. I can pick up the vibration accurately.  It wasn't until I was watching a movie that I realized that each of us has a distinctive rhythm to our heartbeat... So that may be what I'm sensing.  EXCEPT... that heartbeat rhythm stays with us when pass on. I can tell when I'm in the presence of a loved one that has passed on - or even an energy of a stranger.  

I believe we all have these abilities but I think many have allowed them to become latent.     

 @Delano Interesting that you mentioned we haven't transited into the age of Aquarius yet.  So these labor pains continue - oh my! What's your take on Ophiuchus, the 13th sign - is its appearance responsible for the delay? Or no?

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Cynique I would say mysticism is different from magick A msytic in my mind is more philosophical or theoretical, there is an understanding of the esoteric or occult. A spell caster need not understand the wider implications of Magick. So a person can cast a spell without understanding the rules or tenets of Magick. Cynique Autosuggestion meditation using the subconscious or the wil

l are all forms of magic. Your actions or approach shows you to be a mystic but perhaps an unconscious one. You don't know that you know, but you act like you know.

Mel evey few years this comes up. Astrology generally lookes at the zodiac which is the path of the sun during a year. 12 signs times 30 = 360 degrees. The constellations are of unequal sizes. Although there are a few Sidereal Astrologers who use Opichus.

The commencement of the seasons in the US is when the Sun nters the cardinal signs of Aries, Cancer, Libra and Capricorn

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Cynique I would say mysticism is different from magick A mytic in my mind is more philosophical or theoretical, there is an understanding of the esoteric or occult. A spell caster need not understand the wider implicaytions of Magick. So a person can cast a spell without understanding the rules or tenets of Magick. Cynique Autosuggestion meditation using the subconscious or the wil

l are all forms of magic. Your actions or approach shows you to be a mystic but perhaps an unconscious one. You don't know that you know, but you act like you know.

Mel evey few years this comes up. Astrology generally lookes at the zodiac which is the path of the sun during a year. 12 signs times 30 = 360 degrees. The constellations are of unequal sizes. Although there are a few Sidereal Astrologers who use Opichus.

The commencement of the seasons in the US is when the Sun nters the cardinal signs of Aries, Cancer, Libra and Capricorn.

 

What I have noticed is that people subconscoiusly know everything that is going to happen. Which males us omniscient which is  a quality of God. So we are little Gods that are unaware of our divinity. The point that you become aware of this you become a Magus. I would say that Jesus Buddha and varoius other holy people have climbed this pinnacle. And there message is that mastery is both simple and difficult.

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A book of Magick is called a Grimoire. Which is French for Grammar. Which gives a deeper meaning to casting a spell. Also note spells in Popular literature rhyme. This aids in the efficacy of the spell. If you have to perform an incantation that you can't remember it will be less effective. Then you have languages that don't have letters but have symbols that are either pictrograms or Hieroglyphics. Symbols Pictrograms Hieroglyphics Alphabets, this orer goes from more abstract to more definite. In my studying to create my own Magickal Language I found that Greek Latin and Sanskrit alphabets the letters have numeric association. So a word has a numeric value. And words with similar numeric values have similar qualities. This is seen in Numerology and Hebraic mysticism. And also by mystics from the middle ages.

@Mel Hopkins

@Troy

@Cynique

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Man Delano !

What's up with all this magical and astrology talk.....lol.

If you're an expert in magic then I wish you'd moved to Washington D.C. and focus on driving the evil forces out of the government.

But to answer your question:

I believe in cause and effect.
I believe every effect has a cause.

My beliefs are similar to Troy's with regard to magic.

In the physical world when we KNOW the cause...we call it "science".
When we DON'T know the cause we call it "magic".

It's like a little kid who believes that Santa Claus is the one who is bringing the gifts UNTIL they're old enough to realize the truth of who's REALLY bringing the gifts.

However I also believe in a spiritual world, and I've had spiritual experiences
But I don't consider this "magic.
I believe effects in and from the spiritual realm also have causes....known and unknown to us.



I guess the real reason I hesitate in using the term "magic" is because of the origins of the word.

Actually when you study religion, the word "magic" comes from the word "magi" who were members or priests of the religion of Zoroastrianism of ancient Persia from which Christianity derived some of it's teachings.

In the Bible it talks about the wise-men from the east coming to see baby Jesus bearing him gifts. They were also known as the "Magi" and used astrology and observed stars to find the place of his birth.

They believed his birth would herald a new "age".

 

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Magus is also the root of magician.

Yes sir.

The Zoroastrian priests....known as Magi....practiced arts that a lot of the less knowledgable Greeks and other Europeans who visited Persia saw as supernatural.

So unexplained phenomena in Western thought started being refered to as "magic".

They said the same thing about various African and Native American practices when they came in contact with these people.
Because they didn't understand the science of the people, they called it "magic" and often "witch craft".

...until THEY learned how to do some of it, then it was accepted as "science".

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@Pioneer1 As I have defined being an Astrologer is to be a magician. Magician, Shamans, Witch Doctors; Mid Wives; Herbalist are practicers of Magick.

So as a believer in Magick we are on different sides both in definition and appllication.

 

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@Frederic that's Dark Magic. He is one type of Magician. Everything has a cost.There is high and low magic, dark and light. If you have defects in your character magic only amplifies them.There are rumpurs that the lost years of Jesus were spent acquiring esoteric knowledge.

 

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I read the article Frederic posted (welcome to the forum Frederic), but I don't believe any of it. I don't believe you can sell your soul to the devil in the literal sense. I believe some people will stop at nothing to achieve a goal, but a contact with the devil isn't necessary...  you can be evil on your own no supernatural assistance is necessary.

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@Delano

On 2/5/2017 at 7:11 PM, Delano said:

If you have defects in your character magic only amplifies them.

Yep this is exactly why  I gave up casting for personal gains sometime ago.  I began working on raising my vibrations instead.  Thank you, though! Now my focus and goal is getting others to raise their vibration so that we can shine bright in this world...

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Mel

 

Yep this is exactly why I gave up casting for personal gains sometime ago. I began working on raising my vibrations instead. Thank you, though! Now my focus and goal is getting others to raise their vibration so that we can shine bright in this world...


What you just said about not wanting to do it for personal gain is one of the reasons much of religion (I won't say "all" of it) has been such a turn off for me.

Most people think it's some how WRONG to ask for or want personal gain from the divine.

....but secretly they really WANT more blessings and personal gain in their life!

.....but they feel it's wrong to directly ask for it or that it's somehow sinful or selfish, so they pray for "humanity" or sacrifice and give charity trying hard NOT to think of getting anything in return for their good deeds....all the while in the back of their mind hoping to be divinely blessed.

....but turn around and get angry and confused if they do all these "good things" and feel their blessings haven't come as a result.


I no longer come from a religious point of view although I'm a strong believer in God and the spirit realm....and I've never got a message telling me it's wrong to ask for personal gains like more wealth, more sex, better health, ect....

I've read MAN MADE MATERIAL like scriptures and books telling me this, but nothing from the divine realm directly.

So I guess my question is, EXACTLY WHAT'S WRONG with asking for personal gain as long as it's not done to hurt others?

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14 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:


So I guess my question is, EXACTLY WHAT'S WRONG with asking for personal gain as long as it's not done to hurt others?

@Pioneer1Nothing is wrong with personal gain!  Are you kidding me? LOL!  In fact, if I shift perspective "raising the level of consciousness" or vibration,  as I stated IS personal gain.   I want to live in a world where everyone shine's their light.   So there, I guess everything is personal gain because what I'm actually saying is I don't want to be distracted by folks  bitching and moaning :P

Still when I cast spells in the past it was for monetary gain, or a smooth going in a relationship, or something that I really didn't need to cast a spell for.    All I needed was to focus. 

As I got older I realized that I just needed to be what I was seeking (so to speak) ...Whenever  I "vibrate "  at the level of what I want - it comes to me.  Even if I concentrate on something that I know a friend of mine is into, it causes them to call me. 

Magick is just that simple ... "be what you seek" -  It's that simple but it sure ain't easy!

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@Mel Hopkins I spent about 20 years being a diviner. And an additional 17 reading about the Magick. It is only since 2016 that I actively started practising magick. And i had met a wizard in 2000. I always felt it better to develop or refine myself before embarking on the Magickal path. Aleister Crowley said before becoming a Magickian,read 1000 books and see the thread that runs through them. He then listed pages of books that were instructional. The Golden Dawn were also pretty rigourous and you had to pass tests to advance. 

In addition Crowley stresses emotional and physical fitness. He climbed K2 without oxygen. And may have been the inspiration fir Ian Flemings,James Bond character. 

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Pioneer the "prosperity ministry" where you give some charismatic "minister" your money to have it come back to your tenfold is all a hoax to take advantage of vulnerable people, sort of like Trump's campaign.  This is the thing that would turn any reasonable person off.  This is a perversion of religious practice, spiritual practice, or the raising one's level of consciousness. 

Along the same vein, I'm not a fan of these mega-churches. They provide great entertainment, music and moving services, but at the end of the day, the church leadership is greatly enriched while the congregants are fleeced. Many give 10% of their gross income, or more, to these "preachers" who own jet planes and lavish homes.  These marks believe they will literally be damned if they do not live up to this financial commitment. At the same time "institutions" don't even pay taxes like the rest of us...

Still, we spend so much time and energy trying to make more and more money--even resorting to praying for more of it, while missing out on what is most important.

Working on your mental, spiritual and physical development will bring you the money you need. You will know who you are, understand your motivation and purpose, and engage in activities that will bring you exactly what you need. 

In a world where people focus on spiritual development, rather on the acquisition of money, there would be more compassion for others.  We would not be trying to keep others in the dark (or out of the light), so that we can take what they have for ourselves.

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2 hours ago, Troy said:

In a world where people focus on spiritual development, rather on the acquisition of money, there would be more compassion for others.  We would not be trying to keep others in the dark (or out of the light), so that we can take what they have for ourselves.

:wub:  Beautifully stated!

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@Troy that is poeotic. Lately i have been agreeing with you.  Whatsvis goung on with you have you become a meditating Vegan. hee hee hee 

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Perhaps Del, you've been consuming copious amounts of pork and fried foods washing it down with Trader Joes cheapest wines?

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Delano

Pioneer1 why not just get personal gain from the secular? Cut out the middleman.

I'm not sure what you mean by the "middleman" but to answer your question, WE SHOULD seek personal gain from the secular world.....AS WELL AS the spiritual world.

It's not about one OR the other....but about BOTH and a proper balance.



 



Mel

I believe that each individual is different and it's their responsibility to know what works for THEM to achieve success and make them happy.  So if focusing on helping others instead of yourself works for the individual, then by all means continue to do it.

As for me, my experiences have taught me having clear goals and praying for and working to achieve them seems to work best method.

I think back even to highschool.......
At first I tried all types of "indirect" methods to get attention from the girls I found attractive:
-cutting jokes in class
-joined the basketball team
-quoting Shakespear
-even claiming gang affiliations....lol.

I saw it working for other boys, but it didn't seem to work as well for me.

In the midst of the silliness I discovered I had FAR MORE success just directly going to them and declaring my attraction then all that other "round the way" bullshit.
On the other hand, some other boys who saw MY success with this tried it and ended up getting embarrassed.

People have to do what works for THEM.....not someone else.


 

 



Troy

Yes people often DO spend to much time focusing on material gain to the detriment of their spiritual development but keep in mind, what makes ONE PERSON happy and satisfy may not do the same for the next.

I know some work-o-holics that get high FROM working their ass off....lol.
It's what makes them happy and content, and when they're not doing it...they're miserable and bored.

Some people don't care about mental or spiritual development, they are only focuses on the here and now and material gain....I've learned to respect their wishes.


But it's hard to focus on anything else if your BASIC NEEDS aren't taken care of.

As human beings let's keep it real, spiritual development must come AFTER the physical demands are met. In America today, too many people are going "without" to focus on anything else except making ends meet.

People are stuggling out there in those streets; with no decent healthcare, not enough DECENT food to eat, busted up families, legal problems, poor living conditions, ect...

You don't go up to a homeless man and offer him yoga lessons and tips on transcendental meditation for further spiritual development.
It's facing a economic crisis and THAT has to be first addressed.

It's like Maslow's heirarchy of needs......
We are PHYSICAL BEINGS and we need to have our PHYSICAL NEEDS met first in order to survive long enough to focus on mental and deeper spiritual desires.


BTW you'z a straight up NUT for that "Trader Joes cheap wines" comment......lol.

What really gets me is how so-called healthfood stores like Trader Joes and Whole Foods have such a massive wine and liquor collection.






All

One of the socio-psychological diseases Blacks have contracted from living in White society is the hypocrisy of "altruism".
The concept that forces people to hide their true and natural feelings and pretend that every thought, word, and deed is for the "good of humanity" rather than for personal pleasure and gain.

I believe it's one of the reasons so many Black youth are confused right now.
They don't know the "game".
The "game" in Western society is not to admit what you really want or how you really feel and somehow success will magically "find you".


 

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Pioneer of course if someone is beating you upside the head with a club, you have to address the immediate threat before you can worry about anything else. In fact, this is a good metaphor for the situation the Black community finds itself in today.

Dude, many folks don't even have the spare brain cells to read a book let alone think abut enlightenment.  In many ways, everyone actively participating in this forum has the luxury of time to participate here and contemplate things outside of satisfying our immediate needs--like where our next meal is coming from.  That might sound hyperbolic, but it really is the reality for many.

Pioneer in your last statement you make it sound as if it is about doing what is best for yourself OR doing what is best for others.  Consider the following:

 

“The best for the group comes when everyone in the group does what's best for himself AND the group.”

The quote of from John Nash, who you might remember as the Mathematician portrayed in the film The Beautiful Mind.  In fact, the game theory concept was described in the film.

I think American culture focuses on doing what is best for yourself, treating life as a zero sum game where one gains only at the expense of someone else. This is not true and Professor Nash proved it earning a Nobel Prize in the process.

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41 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said:


As human beings let's keep it real, spiritual development must come AFTER the physical demands are met.

Or spiritual development must come first in an effort to understand what physical demands are actually necessary.   

The more I focus on my spiritual needs; I find I need a lot less... In fact, I've recently noticed that I mentally spend money that I don't have... because I'm CONSUMED with thoughts of what I WANT ... notice I wrote "want" and not "need". 

Without spiritual development I don't think we'd notice and would forever be in CONSUMPTION mode.

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Troy

Exactly.

And that's my point, it's not about one OR the other but about BOTH.....BALANCE.

Helping the community AND helping yourself.

And when BOTH are helped, BOTH benefits.

For example............
When I as an individual get out and fight for unversal healthcare FOR ALL citizens and social security benefits FOR ALL seniors, it benefits me as an individual with decent healthcare now and a financially sound future in old age.




Dude, many folks don't even have the spare brain cells to read a book let alone think abut enlightenment. In many ways, everyone actively participating in this forum has the luxury of time to participate here and contemplate things outside of satisfying our immediate needs--like where our next meal is coming from. That might sound hyperbolic, but it really is the reality for many.


True again.
Most people who have time to sit around and have philosophical discussions aren't "struggling" and thus they can focus more on intellectual matters.

But I'm not fooled into thinking EVERYONE has that same luxury or do I believe everyone has that same desire.  What I realize and many have yet to is that some people DON'T WANT to think about these things; all they're focuses on is money even when they have plenty of it.....and I respect their desires.
I'm not going to condemn them or preach to them about what they should want or aspire to, I'll just do me and let them do themselves.

Who am I to say that focusing on more mental or spiritual things even IS the best route to go?
Maybe that brother overthere spending 99% of his time chasing paper really HAS found "the truth".




BTW.....
Financially speaking, I'm still considered POOR or atleast lower middle class.

I just try to use the money I have wisely.

So your boy is STILL trying to "come up"....lol.

 

 

 



 

Mel

Or spiritual development must come first in an effort to understand what physical demands are actually necessary.   

Lol.....try explaining that to a hungry baby.
Or even a hungry child.

Children are closest to the basic human psychological model as we get before we are "socialized" into religious and philosophical concepts that are often abstract.

They don't understand concepts like "sacrifice" and "delayed gratification".
They only understand what they can clearly see...up front.
So they say,
"Either I'm eating and got food in my belly.....or I don't....so spare me your philosophical explanations for my hunger and find me some food"....lol.

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I forgot to add.........................


On the flip side of my example of an individual fighting for universal healthcare and social security:

When SOCIETY respects and protects INDIVIDUAL rights and allows the individual the right to make and keep their money without forcing them to share it with the rest of the community....this in turn gives individuals the confidence, initiative, and motivation to not only build wealth but invent new things and new better ways that will benefit society as a whole.

So social gains and personal gains benefit off of eachother.

Again, my point was it's not one or the other but BOTH in BALANCE.

And it's the same with the physical and spiritual by the way.
It's not about one at the expense of the other but it's about BOTH in BALANCE with eachother.

But what is not good is the hypocrisy of encouraging the neglect of one in hopes that it will somehow accentuate the other; e.i....denying your physical needs thinking that you'll become more spiritually enlightened.

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Pioneer, Mel makes a good point, which I think you may have overlooked.

There are people in dire situations who are at peace and others in the same situation having panic attacks, nervous breakdowns, or lashing out at others.

The more spiritually developed people actually need less--especially in America where our entire economy is based upon consumption. Much of our desire to accumulate things is a consequence of programming by corporations driving us to consume, so that we increase their profits.

The problem is we can never get enough of things we don't need, so we are never really satisfied.  This is why, for example, people of modest means, buy more clothing than they can ever wear. Their closets full of clothing with the price tags still on them and they are still not happy and they don't know why.

Don't think of it as first we eat, then we exercise, and then work on spiritual development once everything else is done.  Spiritual development should run throughout your entire experience, while you eat, while you exercise, while you fight racism. 

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IMO, spirituality is really just an abstract version of religion; a personal belief minus the fables.  Religion is introduced to people early in their life and while many feel obliged to accept the dogma of their particular denomination, others begin to question their religion because it doesn't give them peace of mind.  There is a theory that there is a religious "gene" and not everybody is born with it.  But everybody does want something to believe in and while some look outward  for this, others look inward.  IMO, Religion is for those who'd rather depend on other sources for guidance, while spirituality is recognizing the answers that are right before our eyes if we just listen to our inner voices.

ACIM, a new age cult, thinks the "devil" is just a religious version of the "ego". They say the ego harbors the materialism that has an insatiable desire to be fed, it fuels the desire for praise and attention, and keeps altruism in check. The ego is present at birth so life is, indeed, a constant struggle to find a happy medium.

The black community is too caught up in religion, a security blanket that got them through slavery. Its way of coping with its ongoing problems  is to pray and put things in god's hands.  But, as our friend harry brown constantly reminds us, the church and their preachers are part of the problem instead of the solution.

Black people still have "soul" but this younger generation has lost its spiritual compass.  Replicating themselves with babies, using FaceBook as their stage, a preoccupation with the bling, and a super-sensitivity to being dissed are the consequences of egos gone amok. Unfortunately, neither the ghetto  environment of the underclass nor the superficial atmosphere of the black middleclass do much to nurture spirituality. This doesn't bode well for the future.

I think spiritual people are the most likely to evolve into altruists and - vice versa.

 

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Troy that's more like it. Although I woukd prefer to sound high than drunk. 

To Mel its refreshing to hear a Magickal perspective from a thinker. 

To Cynique I always enjoy your perspective and clear thought. 

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