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16 hours ago, Delano said:

To Mel its refreshing to hear a Magickal perspective from a thinker. 

@Delano Thank you...I'm processing all the time. I might have something different next week lol

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On Thursday, February 23, 2017 at 0:56 AM, Pioneer1 said:

Delano

Pioneer1 why not just get personal gain from the secular? Cut out the middleman.

I'm not sure what you mean by the "middleman" but to answer your question, WE SHOULD seek personal gain from the secular world.....AS WELL AS the spiritual world.

It's not about one OR the other....but about Both

@Pioneer so have you done both?

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@Delano  You knew it was coming  ... "a ritual designed to “bind Donald Trump and all who abet him.”
#Feb24 #magicresistance

 

A Spell to Bind Donald Trump and All Those Who Abet Him (version 2.0)

To be performed at midnight on every waning crescent moon until he is removed from office. The first ritual takes place Friday evening, February 24th, at the stroke of midnight. This binding spell is open source, and may be modified to fit your preferred spiritual practice or magical system — the critical elements are the simultaneity of the working (midnight, EST—DC, Mar-a-Lago, and Trump Tower NYC time) and the mass energy of participants.


https://extranewsfeed.com/a-spell-to-bind-donald-trump-and-all-those-who-abet-him-february-24th-mass-ritual-51f3d94f62f4#.ozssncesn

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I am absolutely fascinated with the spell ritual!  I am, however, leery as to whether it is black magic or white magic, and if Trump's followers (that witch Anne Coulter, in particular)  will check out the instructions and conjure up a counter spell that will negatively affect those focusing on Trump.  So, at midnight, I will limit my participation to simply visualizing disintegrating images of Trump, Pence, KellyAnne Conway and Steve Bannon. :ph34r:

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Cynique You are an excellent unconscious Magician. If you are inposing your will to influence someone's will. Thats is Dark Magic, no matter the intention. My psychic friend echoes yout sentiments. Many years back i was told there would be a psychic war.  It will also ne a cultural psyche and economic war. Mt psychic friwnd also saw Trump making a deal with Putin to blow up the world. 

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Troy

Pioneer, Mel makes a good point, which I think you may have overlooked.

There are people in dire situations who are at peace and others in the same situation having panic attacks, nervous breakdowns, or lashing out at others.

The more spiritually developed people actually need less--especially in America where our entire economy is based upon consumption. Much of our desire to accumulate things is a consequence of programming by corporations driving us to consume, so that we increase their profits.

The problem is we can never get enough of things we don't need, so we are never really satisfied. This is why, for example, people of modest means, buy more clothing than they can ever wear. Their closets full of clothing with the price tags still on them and they are still not happy and they don't know why.


We share similar observations in society, but what you just described above doesn't sound like a lack of spiritual development to me....but rather a lack of psychological balance.

There's a difference between spiritual development and psychological balance.
And to be honest with you, since we're ALL spiritual beings I'm not sure WHO is able to determine who is more spiritually developed than another or what standard should be used.
It's like trying to decide who is MORE HUMAN.

But what you described in people who seem to never be satisfied and consume too much reminds me of Black people who spend so much of their money on clothes, jewelry, and cars.....in an attempt to compensate for their low self-esteem.

This isn't necessarily a "spiritual" problem as much as it's a psychological problem that has developed as a result of living in a racist society that tells you that you are so worthless that you need to buy "things" to improve your value and self image.

I see elements of this problem among people of ALL races by the way.



 


Cynique

I am absolutely fascinated with the spell ritual! I am, however, leery as to whether it is black magic or white magic, and if Trump's followers (that witch Anne Coulter, in particular) will check out the instructions and conjure up a counter spell that will negatively affect those focusing on Trump. So, at midnight, I will limit my participation to simply visualizing disintegrating images of Trump, Pence, KellyAnne Conway and Steve Bannon.


Unless your joking.....

I must admit, I'm a little suprised at how much you're taken in by this astrology and magical talk.
With your relatively straight forward, "cynical"....lol...and even often fatalistic views on so much of what's going on in the world; you'd be one of the last people I'd expect to even give credence to star gazing and magical spells...lol.

 

There is a theory that there is a religious "gene" and not everybody is born with it.


I'm not sure about a religious gene, but I believe some people are just born without the ability to think critically or analyze on a normal to high level so they're constantly being "suckered in"...so to speak...by dogmatic systems that offer flimsy explainations to many of their problems.

 

 

The black community is too caught up in religion, a security blanket that got them through slavery.


((round of applause))
 

 



Del

Pioneer so have you done both?

Lol...why don't you look into your crystal ball and find out?

I'm still waiting on you to offer us a SPECIFIC EVENT at a SPECIFIC TIME as verification that you know what you're talking about.


In the secular world, many professionals can be sued for malpractice if they make a claim that turns out to be false.
Should not those who practice the occult or mysticism be held to the same standard or even higher?

Again, I'm not saying that there is no merit to astrology or magic.

I DEFINATELY BELIEVE in the spiritual world and I believe in the science behind ancient astrology.

My issue is with PEOPLE TODAY who run around in our community claiming to be spiritual teachers and conjure experts without producing effective solutions to the problems that plague the community.

You know magic?

Then clean up the polluted waters in Flint.

Do a magical spell to halt the violence in Chicago and other cities before Trump sends in the troops.

Something productive and verifiable.

 

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@Pioneer1 I am not surprised that the sharpest mind here is interested in the topic.  Nor am I surprised by that you are not. Your need to be followed, is the reason why you are posting on a topic that you have no to little interest.

I didn't ask you the question because I  was curious about the answer.  The question evoked a response from you to demonstate your thinly veiled antagonism to the topic. 

The reason you don't understand anyone's interest is because it is not interesting to you. So you can't  imagine how anyone else could be interested in the topic. 

Your posts are more revelatory than thought provoking.

You may want to comprehend what I  mean by magic. Or not. It just requires reading and comprehension. Or not.

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I read the page for casting the spell and all due respect to the folks here it sounds a bit silly to me,..

  • Unflattering photo of Trump (small); see below for one you can print
  • Tower tarot card (from any deck)
  • Tiny stub of an orange candle (cheap via Amazon)
  • Pin or small nail (to inscribe candle)...

BUT while I may not buy into the specifics in this case, I'm not so quick to dismiss the power of massive numbers of people using their brains to impact the physical world.  Some call it the power of prayer.  Some people believe can modify the weather through rituals, of course there are many other examples or mind over matter practices.

Imagine if everyone who is against Trump decided to concentrate, at the same time, on him leaving office.  Image; 100 million people focusing their mental energy on a single thing. Are you certain there would be no impact?  As far as I know this has never been tried.

But back to the specifics of the Trump spell.  I dunno, while it may sound silly to me, going through the process suing all the items may help people focus their mental energy maybe it is not so silly, if it works for some.  But again that sort of thing is not for me.

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On 2/24/2017 at 8:52 PM, Pioneer1 said:

must admit, I'm a little suprised at how much you're taken in by this astrology and magical talk.
With your relatively straight forward, "cynical"....lol...and even often fatalistic views on so much of what's going on in the world; you'd be one of the last people I'd expect to even give credence to star gazing and magical spells...lol.

I don't really  do "astrology" but what you call "magical talk" is has been given validity in the sphere of Meta-physics, which has always captivated me with its concept of energizing thoughts into things by tapping into the universe which is the source of all energy. Involved in this is the projecting of visualized images into the universe and then making these images materialize by channeling them back into your life. This is known as the "as above, so below" principle  and is what "bright ideas" and "inspirations" spring from.  As is the power of positive thinking, which even the medical profession advocates.   And, of course, for every action there is a reaction, so negative energy exists and this is the stuff of black "magic" .

Quantum physics also figures into "magic" because what it observes defies explanation when it demonstrates  how an object can be 2 places at the same time, and it even casts doubt on believing what you see because, in its realm, what you look at, changes as soon as you look away from it. Fascinating stuff! 

 I did, indeed, go stand on my front porch last night at midnight and silently visualized the faces of Donald Trump, Mike Pence, Kellyanne Conway, and Steve Bannon disintegrating before being blown away like confetti This took less than a minute.  Once done, I went back inside and got on with my evening.

I have always sought to become one with the universe and never miss an opportunity to go out and observe any extraordinary celestial phenomenon, and I regularly commune with the moon. ( Something I usually announce on this site whenever anything unusual is on schedule to happen in the sky.) 

 

 

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Delano

am not surprised that the sharpest mind here is interested in the topic. Nor am I surprised by that you are not. Your need to be followed, is the reason why you are posting on a topic that you have no to little interest.

Who said I wasn't interested?
If I weren't interested in the topic of magic I wouldn't be posting so much in this thread and asking for verification.

Lol, THIS is how I treat topics that I'm not interested in:


https://aalbc.com/tc/topic/4244-christmas-blessings/




"I didn't ask you the question because I was curious about the answer. The question evoked a response from you to demonstate your thinly veiled antagonism to the topic."

Well if your intention was to get a response from me, then congradulations.....because you certainly did.

It's not the TOPIC of magic that I'm antagonistic about, although I must admit that I am skeptical of a lot of claims that many people put out until they offer proof.....it's the CHARLATANS who make their living taking advantage of already disadvantaged and often weak minded people that I take issue with.



Your posts are more revelatory than thought provoking.

In your opinion.

((shruggs shoulders))

Now sir......
Will you kindly give us SPECIFIC EVENTS and  SPECIFIC DATES (or a reasonable time frame within a few days) that will verify your skills as a predictor of future event?

I know these are predictions and not prophecies so I don't expect them to be 100% accurate.
However they MUST be something far more direct and specific than:


:ph34r:"Some time this year between January and December Donald Trump is going to be exposed as a racist who has trouble respecting women".


I don't make these requests out of malice.
I ask out of sincere desire AND INTEREST in the subject because if you indeed have these abilities our communities are in desparate need for brothers like you and you could be of tremendous service.....if you already aren't.

 

 


Troy
 

But back to the specifics of the Trump spell. I dunno, while it may sound silly to me, going through the process suing all the items may help people focus their mental energy maybe it is not so silly, if it works for some. But again that sort of thing is not for me.

For me, the proof is in the pudding.

I come from a more or less scientific and logical angle.....either it WORKS or it DOES NOT.

No matter how silly it seems, if it works....I believe.
On the flip side of that, if it doesn't work....I won't believe (yet anyway).


Without PROOF or atleast a proponderance of evidence in favor of it, much of it sounds like just another form of ESCAPISM where people who are too afraid to confront their problems in life will try to look for indirect ways to improve their lot or explain away what they don't WANT to understand.

Rather than organizing a political and social movement to challenge the radical right wing, they'd rather hide in the closet and burn candles or concoct magical potions hoping THIS will make the evil racists and bigots just disappear.

 

 

Cynique

I don't really do "astrology" but what you call "magical talk" is has been given validity in the sphere of Meta-physics, which has always captivated me with its concept of energizing thoughts into things by tapping into the universe which is the source of all energy. Involved in this is the projecting of visualized images into the universe and then making these images materialize by channeling them back into your life. This is known as the "as above, so below" principle and is what "bright ideas" and "inspirations" spring from. As is the power of positive thinking, which even the medical profession advocates. And, of course, for every action there is a reaction, so negative energy exists and this is the stuff of black "magic" .

Quantum physics also figures into "magic" because what it observes defies explanation when it demonstrates how an object can be 2 places at the same time, and it even casts doubt on believing what you see because, in its realm, what you look at, changes as soon as you look away from it. Fascinating stuff!


Well for one....
I understand what you're saying about quantum physics and energy,but is THAT what Delano is talking about?
From what I've read of his posts and admittedly MY limited understanding (which could be wrong) of what he's saying.....he's talking about horoscopes, Western based astrology based on a European Gregorian calendar system, and crystal balls.

Secondly......
I understand what you're saying about positive and negative energy but I'm not 100% sure if everything you put out comes back to you whether it's positive OR negative; just like I'm not sure that everyone who experiences negativity someone put it out in the universe first.

When you have small children being killed or seriously wounded whether in Los Angeles from a bullet or Syria from high tech weapons being used on them....what "negativity" did they put out at such a young age to meet such a fate????

Cause and effect.
They didn't get hurt because of THEIR negativity, they got hurt because of SOMEONE ELSE'S negativity.

I'm sorry but a lot of what this new age doctrine sounds too much like the religious dogma the elitists have been using through out history to oppress people.
Somehow BLAMING THE VICTIM for their condition rather than the victimizers.

Hindus used to say people who were born in a low caste as slaves and servants to be abused somehow deserved to be there because of some "negativity" they commited in a previous lifetime.

Christians who enslaved Black people blamed some Hamitic curse as the negativity that justified their condition.

Now you have a group of people today claiming that people who are suffering somehow put out negative energy....often times unknowingly.....and that's why they are in their condition.
All they have to do is "believe hard" and "think positive thoughts" and things will be alright.

....rather than blaming  a corrupt and wicked system that oppresses people and focusing on replacing it.

I believe in cause and effect, but I believe in a more DIRECT version.

Like I said before, without concrete evidence and proof, much of it seems to be a form of escapism where people avoid taking direct action to improve their condition.

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Hey everybody I would be careful trying to connect quantum physics with spirituality; only dudes like Deepak Chopra do that. Actual scientists, those who work in the field of quantum mechanics (experimentalist and theorists) rarely make these associations.

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@Troy    I don't think spirituality and quantum physics are related but i do think inexplicable magick may have something to do with quantum physics.  I do think meta-physics are involved in spirituality because  generating energy and visualizing images involves the participation of a focused human entity 

 

@Pioneer1 Positive and negative thinking are probably more applicable  "after the fact" than "before it".  Before-the-fact is more akin to wishing.  After-the-fact is about trying to influence an existing condition, something that often calls for the kind of extraordinary powers which everyone doesn't possess. Luck is a random dynamic, and it is something that figures in both good and bad occurrences.

                     

                                                                                                    

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#Troy a while back i mentioned the physicist from what the bleep donwe know. Have you read him

 I believe his name was Amit Swami.

Cynique You are sounding more and more like a Magus.

 

@Pioneer statistics is my hobby. The bit where I was doing free readings here has past. I offered a Magic Spell to Mel. People arent generally appreciative of free stuff.

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No, Del I have not read Amit's books but I have seen parts of the film.  Below is a link to your original post on Amit from 2013, for the benefit of others.  I have read a few books on the subject.  

What I find most amazing is that I went through 8 years of college and had no idea about the field of quantum mechanics.  My idea of the behavior of an atom was from the stone age.  It is a fascinating field and would probably interest kids if there were passionate teachers and systems willing to teach this stuff.  I did even understand the relationship between atoms and chemistry, magnetism and light--nothing!

You don't even have to get into the "we are all connected" stuff.  I'm wowed by what little we know. 

 

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@Troy I present an idea or an opinion. Or information  and differnt ways of doing thinking about it.. For some reason quantum physics lite became popular amongst thinkers and New Agey types of folks. I am off that particular wagon. 

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8 hours ago, Troy said:

I went through 8 years of college

College, as I've learned doesn't do the job it intended...which is to teach us how to learn, unlearn and relearn.  It is more of an apprentice shop-light for the field you've chosen as a vocation.   Sort of like a school for monomaths vs a school for polymaths. 

Once I figured that out, I chucked all that I learned in college and returned to the mechanics of  what I learned at  Tech (which does teach you how to learn (or at least it did when we attended)).   All this to say,  the study quantum mechanics, which isn't for kids per se, even if you're a mathematical genius, because you have to live and observe for it to make sense is about as close to an explanation of spirituality - then any other discipline. That is,  since we no longer study natural philosophy.   It's sort of like how classical physics' law of conservation "thermodynamics" allows you to understand the nature of god as an energy.  In fact, if you put the two together, energy that can't be destroyed or created - and we are all energy vibrating at different levels - then magick makes sense from a quantum mechanic POV...   Want to know at what level you're vibrating? Just look around you, we attract what and who we are...because that's our vibratory level.   I majored in EE at Tech and we were constantly playing with the oscilloscope making sine waves.  For some reason I remember that your input is the same as your output.  Now I have to go look that up LOL

Edited by Mel Hopkins
typos and stuff
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@Mel Hopkins as a kid  I wanted a calculator. Since i was  preteen age I am as interested in numbers astrology and knowing stuff. I am now thinking about frequency and correspondence.  University teaches you the language of a field. However think is not encouraged and critical thinking less so.

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1 hour ago, Delano said:

 University teaches you the language of a field.

BINGO!!!  Yes to keep others out of it... I'm always reminded of the mythos of "naming rights" if you have the right to name the thing you can own it... No sirree, social constructs will not contain us...   :P

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Gastrointestinal distress is more billable  than tummy ache.

@Mel Hopkins constructs and symbols have imputed not inherent meaning. Numbers; Language ;Sex Roles; and consciousness and visual interpretation some of theese are not real some may not be real. I leave it to the curious. 

Are numbers discovered or created? Who knows.

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26 minutes ago, Delano said:

Are numbers discovered or created? Who knows.

Created as is everything else - but as a form of communication and expression, I'll keep it.   Numbers correspond to letters - without letters there's no need for numbers and vice versa.  Also numbers systems are created as well. The Canaanites used base 7 for several millennia  and cuneiform script ...

So far we have no record of a numeric system corresponding to cave drawings. Correct? 

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@Mel Hopkins  who knows was me being ironic. That is unanswered question in Mathematics. And it may be unknowable in the same way that consciousness may be unknowable. 

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@Mel Hopkins The Greek and Hebrew alphabet are interesting because each letter and and its name have numerical values.

I cant remember whther numbers came first or words. It may also vary across cultures. 

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52 minutes ago, Delano said:

The Greek and Hebrew alphabet are interesting because each letter and and its name have numerical values.

doesn't that give you reason to  pause?    - did you know every individual has a unique rhythm to their heartbeat -  no two heartbeats are alike...

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No two people habe the same chart. I have seen a set of twins whose bith times are separated  by ten minutes. Having different rising signs. 

Not before you told me.

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@Delano,  it's data like that makes me go hmm.   we attempt to make sense of the world around us but we make it up as we go and operate on agreement.   I suspect, this is why I do  a lot of things by feeling and not "facts".  Sometimes I just don't feel like agreeing with constructs.   I'm a believer that we are governed by nature  our environment- just like four-legged furry feathered beings.   I do however trust numbers to communicate within our world more than any other medium  - It seems that numbers are closest to being the universal language. 

Yes, my twin daughters are 51 minutes apart and my friend's mom did their charts when they were born. Very different.

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A friend visited  me last week.  I said your subconscious knows everything and i acces this information with numbers.  I asked him for three numbers.  Afterwards he said i was reading his body language. I said think of someone you know very well. Them give me the first word that pops into your mind. Afterwards he said i think you have something. 

i have found there's a difference between skeptics and disbelievers. I have no interest in playing stump the judge. 

About 1 in 5 it doesn't work. I'm okay with those numbers. 

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Interesting discussion. Delano, you remarked  I was becoming a "magnus". All I can say, is that I would not  read something about spirituality or metaphysics or extra sensory perception and come away thinking I had been informed.    My reaction would instead be that reading about such things didn't  enlighten me, but rather confirmed what I always believed.   And, actually, I haven't done a lot of reading about all of this paranormal stuff, especially lately but I am stimulated by discussions about these subjects, and I say things off the top  of my head which I think may be a conduit for my brain/mind.This kind of plays into the idea that humans already know the answers to life's mysteries which are just waiting to be discerned and people should go with their instincts and gut feelings. This is not to declare that what I contend is factual or true.  But it is to say that  there are no definitive answers to these deep spiritual subjects, so who is to say what's true or real?  .  

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Cynique your statements are indistinguishable from a Magus. Even though you say you haven't studied Magick. There's a sure footedness to your statements. 

A Magus seeks to understand the tenets of Magick. While seeking the Philosopher's Stone,  knowing that it is inside. 

It took me about 14 years to see the answers are inside.  And that other people in our lives are the external projections of internal states. 

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On 2/27/2017 at 7:08 PM, Delano said:

@Mel Hopkins  who knows was me being ironic. That is unanswered question in Mathematics. And it may be unknowable in the same way that consciousness may be unknowable. 

unknowable or not able to prove? 

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You can derive a proof that no one understands. 

Versus something that is unknowable. 

What ishe nature of consciousness may be unknowable.  Since we have to use consciousness to answer thr question about itself. 

Unprovable may be because currently the technology is non existent. 

The difference is one is a matter if time or knowledge. Although I may have to give it some more thought. 

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12 hours ago, Del said:

What ishe nature of consciousness may be unknowable.  Since we have to use consciousness to answer thr question about itself. 

I'm in the camp that once we contemplate a concept, it is no longer unknowable. It is the beginning of  the journey to understand its nature.   Consciousness is not unknowable because we know of  it. We've even named it.  Now to understand it, takesus to another stage of investigation. 

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20 minutes ago, Delano said:

what would be your approach to understand consciousness? 

:) Ask ... as with every mystery, my approach is to ask questions, seek answers and knock on the door that may contain them.   Consciousness is an interesting subject but not one I choose to investigate at this time.  If it were though,that would be my approach.

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Mel, there are thinks that are simply unknowable.  For example, questions like; "What was there before the universe was created?" simply can't be known. We can, and do, speculate, but nothing we dream up can ever be tested, proven or observed. 

Also trying to use consciousness to understand consciousness is flawed. Even understanding ones own motivation is very difficult, if not impossible because we make up stories to explain much of what we do--creating inherent biases in our understanding. 

BTW that article you shared from the motherboard website was fascinating.

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57 minutes ago, Troy said:

but nothing we dream up can ever be tested, proven or observed

:)  contemplation allows us to "know"  a thing. It's the nature of that thing that is not yet known or as you put it, tested, proven or observed... But lack of these things but especially observation doesn't make a concept or element unknowable. 

For example, before the quark was a concept - it was an unknown.  Then it became a known because of what existed along with the particle - but still no one knew the nature of the particles.  Now physicist have figured out its nature but guess what?  No one has ever observed it!

So how do you know that you aren't observing the very thing you are contemplating.  It's like existing in 4th dimension, until you can see it, you can't. 

  What is unknowable may be your perception of the thing.  Therefore, the concept of "unknowable" is a mental construct... So my question as always "who does it benefit to create a construct for "unknowable" elements? "  
 

 

1 hour ago, Troy said:

BTW that article you shared from the motherboard website was fascinating.


I know right? These effing people with their politricks

I have another one article that blew me away... It's  a subculture , I had no clue existed but is  a society unto itself.

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You can theorize something unknown by the effects it has on the known. Which is how yhe outer planets were discovered. Philosophy, Logic and imagination are useful in navigating the unknown. 

There's a few questions in philosophy that may be unknowable: Is reality a simulation is one of them. Since it is difficult to think outside of your consciousness. However I like your methodology @Mel Hopkins 

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Mel even the person who conceived of the quark did not "know" it to be true and would never have stated it with such certainty until it was proven, until then it is a theory, usually one of several theories.  Even now it is possible some other experiment will change what we know or think we know.

I think we have to resign ourselves to the fact that there are some things we simply can not know.  Even something as mundane as what happens to "us" after we die can't be known.  Of course, people of various faiths will claim that they "know," but this is a function of faith rather than reality.  This becomes readily apparent when you compare various faiths and quickly discover they can't all be true.

Often some of these "spiritual" people will kill those with beliefs that oppose their own. 

Even the concept of a state of existence is a function of how we perceive our existence.  The concept of time itself is more a function of how we experience the universe, not a complete reflection of how it truly is "really."  If you could hop a ride on the back of a photon there would be no concept of time.  No past, past present or future.  

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Very tight Mr T.

Although all the religions could be right. Our perception is a function if our reality. So perhaps is what happens after we die. 

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