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Bill Withers Documentary


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On 2017-09-15 at 12:17 PM, Troy said:

Thanks for sharing that Dashi.  Did you see the documentary film about Bill's life?

 

You know Hyman ended her own life, right?

I plan to watch it this week! I'm a bit nervous. After reading all of this, I'm tempted to just maintain the mystery lol. But I've always found his story so relatable and personally inspiring. I'm most interested in how he got started and his music process, not the drama.

 

And I did read that about Hyman, although I know very little else about her. Very sad. She sounded so troubled. 

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@Delano  @TroyI am not saying that Bill Withers was influenced by Rap! I am saying that, as witnessed by how Chris Brown's career has not been derailed  by his beating up Rihanna,  in today's musical climate, Bill Withers' career wouldn't have  been so negatively affected because the misogyny of gangsta rap seems to have removed the stigma of abuse.

 

On ‎9‎/‎16‎/‎2017 at 9:39 AM, Troy said:

When you seek out political and religious discussions are these with people you know, or are you looking in related groups and the like?  Do you use any other social media besides Facebook?

I don't really have to seek out discussion.  There are all kinds of articles about current events and controversial subjects jumping out at you on as you scroll down FaceBook where in addition to a "like" option, there is a "Comment" one to click onto.  Once you click on to it, a whole thread of discussion is opened up to you where highly-opinionated strangers from all over the country engage in heated exchanges.  I also argue with friends when they post something I don't agree with.  FaceBook is the only social media I participate in.  It's enough.

 

@dashi365 I'm sure the royalties are rolling in for the insurance ad featuring singer Jenifer Hudson's "impromptu" duet with a guitar player on Withers' "Gonna Be a Lovely Day".  TV is literally saturated with this commercial.  Which is to say that Bill Withers' music certainly seems to have adequately compensated him for whatever his shortcomings were because his songs are still popular.  I think he should've just manned up and not let the criticism take such a toll on him.  Whenever I heard  the rumors about him and Denise, it was usually in a humorous context.

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On 16/09/2017 at 3:11 AM, Cynique said:

I don't think Bill's marital problems would be a factor in the climate of today's musical industry.  Chris Brown's beating up of Rihanna didn't seem to affect his career. He's kind of become the poster boy for irresistible bad boys, of which there are many nowadays in the show biz  world.  Maybe we can thank the misogyny of Rap for that. 

Ah misread the empashis.

Don't know if it's apocryphal. When asked about whether he hit Denise Williams, Bill Withers said she wanted to Use Me so I decided to Lean on Her.

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@Cynique, I never thought you wrote that Bill was influenced by Rap, not did I write anything to imply.  That does not make sense.  I know you know Bill predates rap.  In fact I even wrote that you were probably right

 

I'm beginning to see that when one person (A) has a disagreement with more than one other person (B and C). The person A has difficulty distinguishing the options of B and C, and just lumps them all together.  The reasons for the disagreement are not nearly as relevant as the disagreement itself.  I'm not singling you out Cynique.  Del does this with me an Pioneer, and I see this in the broader society as well.  

 

Yeah, all the other social media platforms are designed for handheld devices. Facebook is really the only one that is also designed for people using laptops or desktop computers.  Consumers use held held devices predominantly.  Only content creators bother with laptops or desktop devices and these folks are decreasing in numbers...

 

@dashi365, I would encourage you to see the film.  It is a very nice treatment of the man.  Went I saw the film Bill Withers spoke after the showing.  He came across as a great guy.  I was just disappointed to learn that he beat his wife, and that the wife was not mentioned in the film.  That part of his life was erased as if it never existed, which I felt made the film worse because I realized it was an incomplete depiction of Withers.

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On ‎9‎/‎15‎/‎2017 at 2:41 PM, Troy said:

Nah rap is not to blame here.  brothers like Ike Turner and Bill predated the emergence of Rap.  In fact, rap was all about having fun when it started; the misogyny came later, around the time the corporations got involved.

 

This is the statement that gave me the impression that you thought I was saying that Rap influenced Bill's behavior.  So you initially misunderstood my original statement about how Bill's abuse allegations wouldn't have impacted on his career in today's show biz scene because misogynistic rap made abuse irrelevant.

 

On ‎9‎/‎16‎/‎2017 at 9:39 AM, Troy said:

I dunno, you may be right.  I guess I'm looking at it from the perspective of a 50+ year old raised in a culture where we gave up our seats, held doors; you know all the stuff people seem to give two sh-ts about nowadays.

This is your admission that I might be "right", but in your second sentence, i didn't see its relevancy to my original statement.  I now assume you meant that in today's world you would still be scandalized by Bill's alleged abuse in spite of gangsta rap. So, yes, people do tend to either misinterpret or misunderstand what others say in both oral and written discussions. 

 

This seems to often be the case when men and women are discussing something, and why, as women have come into their own,  "mansplaining" has become such an issue. The scenario is too often where a man simply recycles what a woman has said and feeds it back to her as if it was his idea; men are probably unconscious of this because they automatically think that women need to have things explained to them.  I have always thought that women's  brains are more fine-tuned and detailed oriented than men's and this contributes their being more sensitive. 

 

Males are also supposedly more prone to ADD in its various degrees of severity because it's like their brains transpose letters  or add or omit words or confuse similarly spelled words. e.g. Just the other day in the posted Lil Kim video you wrote: "The video did not lie, except for when they spoke about "talent" of the relativity TV show participants"  Did you mean to key "reality" instead of "relativity"? And was this maybe because your fingers and your brain are not in sync?  I think that is why "no" often comes out as "not" or "the" as "they".  I also think that some people unconsciously key what they hear in their head, and this is why they carelessly misuse "to" and" two" and "too" or "there" and "their".  Even when they proof read they are skimming and don't catch typos, etc. Of course, the most simply explanation is that people in a hurry make more mistakes! :o

 

  My problem is typing a word twice in a sentence.  I've also been told that I write in a conversational style with a certain cadence.  I know that I insert a lot of parenthetical expressions in my writing because I do like to write the way I talk.     The human brain is an interesting and complicated organ.   

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@Cynique, I understood your statement.  Why do I to keep mansplaining that I understand that Bill was not influenced by the future misogyny in 1980s rap to beat his wife in the 1970s?!  It looks like you simply did not understand what I wrote in reaction.  Perhaps, as you suggest, I don't write well enough, or maybe it is a case "femstanding," the female way of understanding :o

 

In the context of the whole sentence, are you saying that you had no idea which word I meant between, "reality" instead of "relativity"?  Sometimes spell check corrects on the fly and if I don't see the red underline, I may miss an otherwise obvious typo.  We already spoke about the difficulty of self-editing.  

 

Actually, I spend more time trying explain things to Pioneer and Del than I do you Cynique.  Is still called "mansplaining" if it is one dude explaining talking to another?

 

@Del, at the risk of mansplaining, Pioneer and I can be on the same side of an issue, but for different reasons. In most cases, many of the things we discuss here are naused and multifaceted; there are many sides to one can take.

 

It seems however, that most people for the sake of simplicity, laziness, or perhaps human nature refuse the acknowledge that many issues are complicated and that there is no "right" or "wrong;" answer.

 

It is very easy to lump all 45 supporters into the racist bucket, but if you that you'll never understand why many people actually support him. 

 

Similarly, if you group all women together into having  brains that are more "fine-tuned and detailed" than men, you'll tend to view people with that prism and fail to completely understand them.

 

For example, you can't run a massive website single handedly without paying attention to detail--it would get away from you and become unmanageable.  Any programmer knows you simply can't write code without paying strict attention to the most minute details; a single character out of place can literally bring down an entire website.

 

Obviously I wrote that to demonstrate that I'm fully capable of being detailed oriented.  Do I have a female-like brain?  It that is the case how would one explain the typos in my posts?

 

 

 

 

 

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@TroyWell, you didn't discern that I wasn't accusing you of "mansplaining" when it came to the Bill Wither's subject. My first response in my last post  was specifically directed to the last sentence in your second response wherein you said " I guess I'm looking at it from the perspective of a 50+ year old raised in a culture where we gave up our seats, held doors; you know all the stuff people seem to give two sh-ts about nowadays",  an observation which struck me as kind of a non sequitur.   Note that I started a new paragraph when I switched to the subject of mansplaining,  - which is a ticklish subject.  

 

Moreover, "relativity" and "reality" are two different words.   There are no relativity shows on prime time TV.  But there are a plethora of reality shows on it. The word "relativity" would be more appropriately  used on the Science or National Geographic cable channels in connection with Einstein's theory of "relativity".  You didn't misspell "relativity",  which was why the spell check didn't kick in.  Your brain inadvertently mixed  up the similarly-spelled words when you were keying.

 

Technical expertise doesn't require being "nuanced".  This is more in the realm of a woman's instinct which is triggered by her fine-tuned antennae.  :D

 

 So you and I do have difficulty in being on the same wave length.

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On 2017-09-18 at 8:10 AM, Troy said:

@Cynique, I never thought you wrote that Bill was influenced by Rap, not did I write anything to imply.  That does not make sense.  I know you know Bill predates rap.  In fact I even wrote that you were probably right

 

I'm beginning to see that when one person (A) has a disagreement with more than one other person (B and C). The person A has difficulty distinguishing the options of B and C, and just lumps them all together.  The reasons for the disagreement are not nearly as relevant as the disagreement itself.  I'm not singling you out Cynique.  Del does this with me an Pioneer, and I see this in the broader society as well.  

 

Yeah, all the other social media platforms are designed for handheld devices. Facebook is really the only one that is also designed for people using laptops or desktop computers.  Consumers use held held devices predominantly.  Only content creators bother with laptops or desktop devices and these folks are decreasing in numbers...

 

@dashi365, I would encourage you to see the film.  It is a very nice treatment of the man.  Went I saw the film Bill Withers spoke after the showing.  He came across as a great guy.  I was just disappointed to learn that he beat his wife, and that the wife was not mentioned in the film.  That part of his life was erased as if it never existed, which I felt made the film worse because I realized it was an incomplete depiction of Withers.

Wow! Where was this screening? And I see what you mean about erasing the incident(s). And it does make me think immediately of Rihanna and Chris Brown, and how journalists and fans and anyone you can think of still being that's incident up almost daily. It makes it impossible for the perpetrator or the victim to move on. Maybe it would've been better if it was mentioned in the film, even if Bill didn't discuss it personally. Otherwise, you don't get a complete picture of the person, which (obviously), is the point of making a documentary. 

 

And @Del my heart smiles a bit every time I hear that commercial (even though I find Jennifer's voice a tad shriek-y :)). 

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9 hours ago, dashi365 said:

And @Del my heart smiles a bit every time I hear that commercial (even though I find Jennifer's voice a tad shriek-y :)). 

Actually I, Cynique, am the one who brought up the Jennifer Hudson commercial, and also the one who compared  the Chris Brown and Rihanna brouhaha to the Bill Withers and Denise Nicholas situation.  ...Yet another example of people being confused about who said what.  :huh:

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@Delano that is easy, because both men and women exhibit the characteristics Cynique describes.  Now I know stereotypes might support the generalizations, but stereotypes don't reflect reality.  

 

If i may, I think you and I both defy cultural norms and stereotypes in a number of ways.

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I'm not saying there are no gender differences, I'm just not sure the ones Cynique described are. Are you sure those influences are not based on culture?

 

While I love me some fried chicken (I make it at least once a week), many white people love fried chicken too.

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Like white racism, I think the drivers are cultural, not inherent to the person or their gender. 

 

But keep in mind I'm not speaking in absolutes. I'm not saying there are no differences in thinking due to gender. I'm just saying there are certainly not as many as we think they are are.

 

Most of these differences, I'm arguing, are defined in our culture; the way we are raised the media messages we are sent, etc. Not all cultures see the same differences between men and women that we do.

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To what do you guys attribute your incorrect word usage, grammatical errors, misspellings, garbled sentences, and typos, all of which frequently occur in your proof-read versions? ;)   Carelessness, ignorance, dyslexia or something else? :huh: 

 

 I am deficient in computer technology  and am not good at math. :blink:

 

 

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Maybe I'm just stoopid.  I don't know what Del's excuse it :P   It could be men are just dumber that women.

 

Seriously, you can't possibly be deficient in technology.  You'd run rings around most of the people I know anywhere near your age.  If you think you are bad in math it is probably because you had crappy teachers when it mattered most.

 

Nope, @Pioneer1, your problem is not syntax, just reasoning ;)

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@Delano I find using the speech to text function works well when I post using my cell phone.  Though it does sometime choose the wrong word, it is better than typing.

 

Touché @Pioneer1 LOL!

 

@Cynique, well I know women you can take a joke and others who can't. This is also true for men.  

 

As a guy coming up the way I did, if you could not take a joke, or took everything said to you seriously, you would never have made it... just as I wrote that I realized, in hindsight, that is probably our collective problem.  We spent so much time demeaning each other it probably did have an adverse impact on our how we perceived ourselves and our potential for success...

 

Del were you ever teased by any of the kids in your neighborhood for being smart, or going to that fancy school?  I was called "brainiac." By the time I got to high school the last thing I wanted to be known for was being smart.   

 

 

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Troy as a kid we would snap on each other. All the neighborhood kids would insult you and your parents. And you couldn't lose your cool. You had to have a funny comeback. O don't know for certain but i think this is common among black boys growing up. I look at is as training for life. 

 

There was one kid who usef to sit on his stoop and read law books. Incidentally he was a legendary fighter. He was so good he would just be a bit better than you. I remember we were sparing once and this neighbourhood kid said if you beat him you're the man. 

 

There was another kid who was in gymnastics. He would do leg cuts on the ground. And he couldn't beat him either. He was fast strong and flexible. 

One time a cat was holding his foot he jumped and kicked him with the other leg. 

Pne time i was sparring with this kid he had tem pounds in me was a little shorter but i was faster. I would dance around and tag him with punches. Je was a flat footed straight ahead fighter. When he came at me i dropped my hands didnt block his blows but he could barely touch me. He lost his cool charged me a side stepped him and punched him in the ribs.

So for a little guy i was nice withy hands and had good footwork. So om addition to snapping we sparred.

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Well, a little perspective is called for here.  Everybody has painful childhood memories inter-dispersed with the happy ones. That's all a part of the growing-up process.   There is such a thing as constructive criticism.  The alternative to this is to reinforce bad habits with silence.  A balance has to be struck. 

 

Black folks should strive to be able to compete in the mainstream instead of setting themselves up for ridicule. This can be done without sacrificing their identity, and  a dual consciousness is what the black mystique is all about.

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  • 8 months later...

I had heard the same thing about Bill Withers and his spousal abuse of Denise Nichols! I really didn’t know if this was really true but I hoped that it wasn’t true. But now since I am seeing more of a confirmation from other people that it is true two people in the world of entertainment of whom I have such admiration for, all I can do is wonder why is it necessary to be  physical abusive someone who you are supposed to love and cherish when you stood before God and witnesses not only made that promise but also broke that same promise??? Just my humble opinion.

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 2/5/2010 at 4:10 PM, careycarey said:

Actually, Bill Withers beating his wife is one of the FIRST things I think about when I think of his legacy. That doesn’t negate that he was a super talented artist, but most women I know who listen to him know of this abuse.

 

“I doubt a person would say "the abuse Denise" if you asked them to name 5 things associated with Bill Withers. Hell, I didn't know anything about it.”

 

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  • 1 year later...
Guest Sunshine

 I doubt Bill would literally hit any woman ! I know  an abusive man when I see one. . A man is only human some women would say; if he nudge her to distance herself from him is abusive. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. Look if you are a woman realize that you can push, shove and beat up on a male , and just because you are a woman you excuse yourself . Abuse is abuse . Hell ,maybe she pushed him ! Some women cannot handle a man of his caliber.  Honestly to please a man you got to bring more than good looks to the table.  A woman nor a man should be abusive either way its wrong but this man just do not fit an abusive profile. He did remarry , raised a family and is an accomplish, songwriter, musician and composer. I lived in an abusive relationship with a man. So, I would know and thank God that he is now blessed with a woman who gets him. Heart and Soul. 

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  • 2 months later...
Guest Addagurl

If I find out that you hit a woman, whether past or present, I'm no longer a fan.  I remember my mother telling me about Bill Wither's abusive nature while with Denise Nichols  and I didn't like him then.  Today,  it's confirmed via internet and I still don't like him.  His music was never all that special to me anyway.

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  • 5 months later...

May Bill R.I.P.

 

The last guest's comments were most sensible.

 

Bill's life should not be defined by his relationship with Nichols nor be ignored for all the experiences make the man.

 

After skimming this conversation I realize how much I miss conversations like this. I almost forgot about @careycarey. @Xeon pops in every blue moon. @ABM and @Cynique are a couple of my favorite contributors to this forum.

 

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Guest A Reader

There's an article in Jet magazine Nov. 23, 1972.  Nicholas declined to comment on the incident (alleged beating) saying, "I'm not denying that it took place, but I don't want to talk about it."  There weren't any pictures of Nicholas with a black eye; just two separate pictures of Withers and Nicholas.

 

i tried copying and pasting the article here, but was unsuccessful.

 

Also the story was picked up by the Indianapolis Recorder, November 18, 1972

 

Room 222 star refuses to charge singing artist in alleged beating

 

DENISE NICHOLAS TUCSON, Ariz.—Actress Denise Nicholas, star of the television show, “Room 22,“ told police here last week that her ex-boyfriend, singer Bill Withers, beat her when she threatened to break up their relationship. However, the attractive star refused to press charges of alleged assault and battery against the popular singer, whose current hit, “Use Me,' Is riding atop the charts nationwide. Police reportedly answered a call to a Tuscon motel where the red-hair, green-eyed beauty is staying during the filming of her second motion picture. She reportedly told them that Withers had flown here after being informed of the breakup by her earlier on the telephone. Miss Nicholas has been In Tucson where she is filming “The Soul of Nigger Charley," with ex-pro football star turned actor, Fred Williamson. Withers had been performing In one-night concerts in Texas and was in Houston when he allegedly called Miss Nicholas. Miss Nicholas said Withers flew to Tucson Immediately and came to see her at her motel room. That was when the beating took place, she said. The pair have been linked romantically b y columnists throughout the country for sometime. However, Withers also has been linked to a relationship involving Nancy Wilson. The actress was reportedly not hurt and returned to work the following day. The attack allegedly took place Nov. 1. Withers, a 34 - year - old West Virginia, rose to national heights when he did his version of “Ain’t No Sunshine," first on a single, then on his first album. Miss Nicholas first movie was “Blacula,* In which she co-starred with William Marshall.

 

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Guest Guest A Reader

I didn't save the site in my favorites.  I took a screenshot of the magazine page, but for a reason unknown to me, I can't paste it here.  I'll go through my history and see if I can find the page and article.

 

 

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Guest A Reader

I didn't save the site in my favorites.  I took a screenshot of the magazine page, but for a reason unknown to me, I can't paste it here.  I'll go through my history and see if I can find the page and article.

 

https://books.google.com/books?id=D6YDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA58&dq=denise+nicholas+bill+withers+1972&hl=en#v=onepage&q=denise nicholas bill withers 1972&f=false

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  • 1 year later...
Guest janea

 

I guess if you can sign, write music or entertain you can do whatever you want and still be revered.  I REFUSE TO SUPPORT OR GLORIFY ABUSERS

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