What is your definition of Spirituality?

[Delano 800]

@Troy Great question. 

[Del 157]

I am pondering how to answer your question. I will givea rational answer, and an inspired one. 

[Troy 1,911]

Who knew the question would be so deep. Please; the question is not just for Del, anyone can answer. 

Google define spirituality as shown below.  The answer presumes that to be spiritual you have to believe in the human soul.  But there are people who consider themselves spiritual, who do not believe in a human soul or spirit.

 

 

 

[Pioneer1 679]

Not sure what others mean by "spirituality" because it's such a fluid term.....

But when I say spirituality I'm talking about those OTHER REALMS (because I believe there are many) beyond the physical, beyond time, and beyond space.

Some believe believe that even the physical realm (reality) that we're living in is also PART of the greater spiritual whole but just on a slower vibratory plane.

　

Troy

But there are people who consider themselves spiritual, who do not believe in a human soul or spirit.

I've met people who held similar seemingly contradictory beliefs, but when you really drill them on what they believe you find out a lot of what they object to are the commonly held perceptions of these subjects in Western thought.

I've met people who claimed they were atheist, but after interrogating them over a few weeks I find out that it's the Western concept of "god" as an old man with a beard riding a cloud that they object to....not the idea of a Supreme Force or Forces in the universe.

[Mel Hopkins 1,053]

I wrote in the other thread about spiritual enlightenment.  Maybe that's a misnomer because it's more like spiritual re-enlightening. 

Spirituality, for me is simply remembering the ancient energy that animates all things, also resides in me. If I had to describe it, it would be like one eternal flame that lights all the candles on a birthday cake... I honor that flame in all living things.

As far as the spirit is concerned since I'm fascinated with the etymology of words, I believe spirit is exactly how its defined: spiritus which means breath.  From the Latin word "inspirare” from which we get the word inspire means "to breathe life or blow into"... I like to believe that the spirit is that ancient energy that's not created or destroyed it just changes form and it is that breath which animates our bodies with what many call the soul.   When our bodies are worn out or destroyed, the energy that is “us” continues on.  The spirit is that thing that's omniscient and has a small voice but speaks with temerity and speaks first in all matters of our daily life. 

Edited March 2, 2017 by Mel Hopkins
added a word

[Cynique 2,038]

@Mel Your definition of spirituality is very profound and provocative.  

 

As for how I define spirituality, I agree with the idea that the spirit is the intangible essence of the tangible individual, and I am in sync with the cliche that spirituality is about  getting in touch with yourself. To me, this includes  listening  to your inner voice which is your guide through the external world and a channel for the instincts that remind if it does not feel right to you, it is not right for you. (Which is why I appreciate Shakespeare advising: " this above all, to thine own self be true".)

I also think that spirituality is about acknowledging your own divinity and realizing that "god" is comparable to your higher self divested of the ego that reduces you to being human.  This is my belief and something I contemplate on my current spiritual journey to seek the truth, keeping in mind what The Prophet Khalil Gibran  warns: "say not that I have found the truth, say rather I have a found a truth while walking along my path."   Again I can only resort to cliches when I concur with the idea that "the truth will set you free".( Even if it hurts, it is a spiritual wound that heals itself as you meander through a world of deception.)

BTW, I do appreciate the necessity and the beauty of language,  but on a spiritual level I think words are some times inadequate, and the closest they come to adequacy is when they defer to "reality" and say that "it is, what it is". 

[Delano 800]

My first answer is that which is neither body nor emotion  That which is timeless or outside of time. Which would include the mind and the soul . Not certain where I would place the spirit, emotions or personality. 

Still working on the inspired response. 

I haven't read the other posts.  I  want to approach the question fresh.

[Troy 1,911]

One of the problems I had with "Heaven" from a very early age was the concept of eternity.  An eternity of anything would become a hell for me.

So I figured surely whatever the afterlife meant it had to mean more than what my mind could possibly conceive (again one of those unknowable things). In fact why the did afterlife have to mean that my personality, experiences, and even my friends as I know them here on Earth had to persist in the afterlife in exactly the same fashion?  This seems very limiting--unnecessarily so.

The physics of our bodies prevent us from perceiving and perhaps understand much of what the universe contains. Today 95% of what makes up the Universe is unknown.  We know just about the same amount about the working our own brains.

I hear there are people who can astral project themselves.  I'm not convinced that is possible, but if it is true that would be a neat thing to do--especially if you could share the experience with someone else.

 

[Delano 800]

Spirituality is the counterbalance to our body, personality and all that is tangible. The body is a ship and spirituality is our anchor in the higher realms. 

You could exhange spirituality with world view or the existential contemplation of essence.

Religion is a lower order manifestation of spirtuality. Analogous to the word apple and the object apple. So your spiritual approach defines and informs your actions personality, thought processes, and emotions. All of the later terms are constructs or a way to embody the intangible essence. These constructs are what makes life feel real. Its easier to argue religion or spirituality. Than the reality of your body. Yet you would have a hard time really believing someone arguing reality. 

 

The irony being that it is your mind that rails against this position. Which is ironic because your mond is closer to spirit than your body. 

Thats a first take will post more later.

 

There's the potential problem of associating the self with our body or our actions.  What infotms this the mind.  The mond is a function of your life experience and also your spirit. 

Various people may perceive one or the other in the ascendancy 

 An admixture or perhaps neither. 

You  are relatively unaware if the functioning of the body or your destiny. Spiritual practices can shift your perspective so that you can see both differently. This ability may be real or as indistinguishable as being in a dream.

Row row row your boat gently down the stream.

Live live life your life. Knowing that it is the spirit dreaming. 

[Delano 800]

@Troy astral projection is possible. I did it accidentally when i was about 17. A Princess knowledgeable in Magick schooled me.

Also accidentally achieved cosmic conciousness around 19 years of age. Someone also told me this  when i was in my 40's. 

 

Troy thanks again for asking the question. 

[Delano 800]

@Mel Hopkins inspiration and and respiration are also linked etymologically.  So loosely translated it means to breathe in spirit or the breath of God.  Which gives new meaning to Genesis. The Bible takes on an entirely siffrent meaning if you know etymologies Astrology Numerology and Symbolism. The Son is the Sun. And Jesus died and rose on the third day.  Is a reference to the Sun during the Winter Solstice and Ra's nightly journey to the underworld. Mythology is the basis of religion. Which are divinely inspired text.  Hence the similarities amongst and between religions and Myths.

[Mel Hopkins 1,053]

15 hours ago, Delano said:

inspiration and and respiration are also linked etymologically.  So loosely translated it means to breathe in spirit or the breath of God.

I explore etymology in the essay I wrote about "unknowable"... Medieval magicians practicing sorcery were versed in Latin and used it in their spells.  We must be mindful of our words. 

[Delano 800]

An ancient book of magic was a grimoire. So you can see why they are called spells. David Alan Hulse states the following languages are Magickal or have special qualities  German Latin Greek Hebrew Sanskrit Arabic, English and Numbers. 

[Delano 800]

@Mel Hopkins thanks for the link .  Unknowable. 

[Delano 800]

@Mel Hopkins thanks for the link .  Unknowable. You have inadvertently given me a Magickal key. 

I am grateful.

[Mel Hopkins 1,053]

1 minute ago, Delano said:

You have inadvertently given me a Magickal key. 

Now this is wonderful news!  I was reading something today, not sure what but "magical key" was in the text... so, thank you!

[Delano 800]

An unknowable statement what is the highest prime number. However when i look at the esoteric meaning of unknowable.  I now realise I have keys to get at least a type of answer. 

The odd things is that I had the keys all the while. 

 

 

 

[Delano 800]

Words have a secondary meaning and i use this to create an Astrology chart. So the longer definition was reading yhe Astrology chart associated with the word  Spirituality. 

[Cynique 2,038]

As I spout about all the time, words are just sounds and syllables  used to describe reality.  But one person's reality may not be another one's; what one person sees as green may be what another one sees as red but this doesn't matter because words are superficial. 

And the word "reality" itself is an attempt to assign sounds or symbols to the totality of what "is".  Mathematics are a more accurate vehicle for conveying and exchanging information.  Geometry, in particular, has been deemed the universal language.  

To me, there is the existing world, and then there is language which attempts to condense what exists into words - and a lot may be "lost in the translation".  Even now I am struggling to put my theory" into words.

And speaking of schools of thought, spirituality has been referred to as the "third eye". People who have or acquire one, see the world from a  broader more perceptive perspective.

[Delano 800]

Language is a way to describe the contents of the mind. Words and Numbers are equivalent. Since I look at the time associated with a word. And the meaning of a number. Word is to Number as magnetism is to electricity.

[Pioneer1 679]

Too me, there's a difference between the SOUL and the SPIRIT.

The spirit is the life force or "chi" that runs through all living things whether they be humans, animals, plants, microbes, ect....

Where as the soul is the essense of that human being or animal....the REAL THEM.
And this soul is independent of a body or even the spirit and can leave that body and spirit behind and travel.

I believe when people are in comas their body and spirit remains while their soul is gone.
Sometimes their soul comes back and they regain conciousness but if their spirit (life force) leaves then the body dies.
 

 

 

Troy

One of the problems I had with "Heaven" from a very early age was the concept of eternity. An eternity of anything would become a hell for me.

Troy you take me as a brother who loves to LEARN.

What if you had and eternal amount of time to learn in depth the TRUTH about everything that interested you from the life of Jesus to the Haitian Revolution to what really happened with Martin and Malcolm, ect.....?

Perhaps "heaven" and the afterlife would offer you that opportunity.

Maybe even get to see everthing in 3D and from the various 1st person perspectives.

You could even see how Harlem went from a Jewish neighborhood to a Black one....lol.

[Troy 1,911]

I assume once my body was shed and I enter the spiritual realm, I would just know all of that stuff @Pioneer1 

Plus I would assume all the mundane behaviors  humans would be as interesting to me as the behavior of an ameba

[Pioneer1 679]

Perhaps.....

But according to information I've gathered regarding the spiritual world, many individuals who've made to the other side STILL show an interest in humanity and especially the conditions of family members and other loved ones still left behind on THIS plane of existence.

[TSegal 12]

Spirituality is knowing and understanding things around you are more than what you can actually see.

[Troy 1,911]

@Pioneer1, I'm not aware of anyone who has made it to the "other side" and has come back to tell us anything, at least nothing revelatory.

@TSegal, do you mean like extrasensory perception?

[Delano 800]

On Monday, March 06, 2017 at 0:07 PM, Troy said:

I assume once my body was shed and I enter the spiritual realm, I would just know all of that stuff @Pioneer1 

Plus I would assume all the mundane behaviors  humans would be as interesting to me as the behavior of an ameba

I agree with the first half. 

3 hours ago, TSegal said:

Spirituality is knowing and understanding things around you are more than what you can actually see.

I like the sound of this.

[Pioneer1 679]

Troy


I'm not aware of anyone who has made it to the "other side" and has come back to tell us anything, at least nothing revelatory.

You've been talking to atleast ONE..lol.

Remember MEL and the experience she related to us in the other thread about being on the other side?
 

[Troy 1,911]

Sure I remember Mel and we are still talking.  As much as I love Mel, I'm not convinced that she went to the other side; at least not yet.  Indeed I don't even know what that means, really. Did she go to where all the people who die go, or some other realm?  Obviously, she experienced something very profound that I can't explain or fully understand yet. 

So tell me @Pioneer1 , was Mel's statement the thing that convinced you that people can die, transition to the afterlife, and come back to tell the tale, or did you previously believe this?  If so why?

[Mel Hopkins 1,053]

7 hours ago, Troy said:

Sure I remember Mel and we are still talking.

bwhahahaha!  Straight from a comedy skit...  Yes, syntax is our best friend especially in discussions on the internet.

 

7 hours ago, Troy said:

I'm not convinced that she went to the other side; at least not yet.

So, @Troy what would you convince that people die and return? That is if there "earthsuit"  (body) is viable, that is. 

[Troy 1,911]

@Mel Hopkins, you know what would convince me if you told me something that only someone back from the dead could know... but I don't even know what that could be.  Obviously, it is nothing personal (am I'm glad you haven't taken it that way), but I'm a natural skeptic, so it takes a lot to convince me something is true... just as it take a lot to convince me something is impossible. Does that make sense?

I friend of mine studied Reki. I spend the night at her house once and she and her boyfriend told me they both saw a UFO (alien spacecraft) while they were driving down the New Jersey turnpike.  

Needless to say they were amazed and pulled their car over to watch it more carefully.  They also told me other cars were pulled over watching it too!  

Now this is a smart sister and she is educated, but I found her story hard to believe.  One would think something like that would at least make the news...  Now I don't think she was lying to me or yanking my chain, but I have no way to disprove her story and while find it hard to believe I have not ruled it our of the realm of possibility. I'm an open minded skeptic. 

Of course, if she took a photo that would have helped. If I saw it myself, that would help even more.  But even if I saw it with my own eyes, I probably would not believe it right away. I would consider very strongly more likely causes than a visit from extraterrestrials. 

 

 

[Pioneer1 679]

Troy

So tell me @Pioneer1 , was Mel's statement the thing that convinced you that people can die, transition to the afterlife, and come back to tell the tale, or did you previously believe this? If so why?

Well, as I've said in the other thread, I've been studying near death experiences and out of body experiences for over 20 years so YES I believed in this well before hearing Mel's story.
Her story was just more evidence for what I already BELIEVED.

But to give you a small window to peak into my thought processes.......


I separate what I KNOW from what I BELIEVE.

My body of KNOWLEDGE consists of what I've personally experience and/or personally observed to be true.

My mere BELIEFS consist of information I accept as credible (to various degrees) based on the amount of evidence for it bounced off of my own judgement.

Having said that.....

　

I not only BELIEVE but I KNOW the spiritual realm exists because not only have I received plenty of evidence and information on it from various sources through out the years but I've exprienced it first hand.

However when it comes to Mel's and other people's NDE's I can't say that I KNOW it happened because I didn't experience nor did I observe what they did.
But not only do I BELIEVE that she actually had one but I believe it strongly because so many thousands (probably millions) of people from all over the world have said similar things after dying and coming back or even being near death.


Also thousands of indigenous religious systems that existed in ancient societies as well as most modern societies that haven't had the monotheistic religions imposed upon them also say similar things about the spirit of the ancestors having died but return from time to time involving themselves in the affairs of the living.
 

[Mel Hopkins 1,053]

15 hours ago, Troy said:

 Obviously, it is nothing personal (am I'm glad you haven't taken it that way), but I'm a natural skeptic, so it takes a lot to convince me something is true... just as it take a lot to convince me something is impossible. Does that make sense?

Absolutely it makes sense! Let me let you in on a secret.. I don't believe anything people say.  I do, however, believe they believe it.   For example, I don't believe you don't believe I visited another dimension...but I do believe that you rather not believe it because it would force you to lose your grip on this spot and you're doing everything you can to keep your foothold... I get that too - because I'm afraid of losing my grip too.  So in a way, skeptics especially natural skeptics allow us, those of us who float between dimensions,  an anchor or tether as you mentioned earlier. 

[Troy 1,911]

@Pioneer1 You must also appreciate that both what you know and believe do not have to be true.  Indeed you've demonstrated that numerous times on this forum. 

For example, you do not believe in man-made climate change or that there is only one one human race, despite both of these things being true.  

But you are not unique, this is the human condition.  People live their entire lives believing things that are demonstrably false. Largely this is due to ignorance, but often it is hubris.

Now some things can not be proven or disproven. We can, of course, have beliefs in these areas. But asserting knowledge without evidence or experience is foolhardy. Christians speak of "faith," which is their "proof" of things unknowable.  

@Mel Hopkins, actually I do believe in other dimensions, a spiritual realm, higher vibratory level, or whatever it is called. I'm actually excited when I hear these stories of personal experiences from people I know. I might have faith in you, and believe your story, but knowing it to be true will take a lot more for me.  

[Mel Hopkins 1,053]

1 hour ago, Troy said:

actually I do believe in other dimensions, a spiritual realm, higher vibratory level, or whatever it is called. I'm actually excited when I hear these stories of personal experiences from people I know. I might have faith in you, and believe your story, but knowing it to be true will take a lot more for me.  

I originally want to re-post here for @Pioneer1 but think my response to @Troy  "Can blacks ever be normal" about "astral projection and agreement" can go here too.

57 minutes ago, Troy said:

astral projection when you maintain your individuality, a sperate consciousness.  It sounds like you integrated into a larger consciousness. 

We didn't say anything that is in disagreement .. I never lost my consciousness.  We don't lose our consciousness when we join the THE ALL... We are in agreement until we ARE NOT that is when we individuate.  In Astral projection you are still corporeal entity, You're still matter. 

 

57 minutes ago, Troy said:

Did you learn or experience anything that you can relate that might help me understand better?  Maybe some information you learned that has served you well.

Your question reflects a value system; a hierarchy.  Value systems exist here in this dimension - This is indicative of people who are still attached to material things... We all are attached to matter in this dimension...It is the foundation of the value system.  Still it makes it difficult to answer but I'll do my best. 

Just like you don't believe there's such a thing as race - the same is true in the other dimension.  There's no hierarchy.

There's no value system in the eternal.  What is the value of infinite? 

But if I had to judge what has served me well, here, it is understanding of energy and its vibration. Also seeing light in the dark.  Livings things, even things we don't believe have life are illuminated here in this dimension.  If it is made from life or of living that energy remains with it. 

It is same with people - some people give off more light than others - and while I don't believe what people say I do trust their light. 

The one thing I'll tell you about leaving this dimension and traveling beyond is this: There was no "bright" light  like most people say they see. It is an incredible darkness ( I wrote this part in my novel)  like looking into a school at night where those cut-out shapes of Washington and Lincoln, made from black construction paper, are taped to windows.  You can see the shapes even though they are pasted to the window in a dark classroom.    When you return here... you can see beyond darkness because everything is illuminated to different degrees.

 

Edited March 10, 2017 by Mel Hopkins
clarity

[Cynique 2,038]

@Mel  That's some deep shit, girlfriend. And it just convinces me that consciousness is a gateway to a different world...

18 hours ago, Troy said:

but I'm a natural skeptic, so it takes a lot to convince me something is true... just as it take a lot to convince me something is impossible. Does that make sense?

@Troy If , as you imply, that anything is possible, then it's possible that you are incorrect in your belief that scientific evidence is infallible. Why?  Because it is based on the knowable, not the unknowable X-factor.  Physicist Stephen Hawkins, one of the most brilliant minds in the world, reversed himself on the existence of black holes, and now believes they exist. Astronomers came to the conclusion after many years that Pluto was not a planet. The medical profession frequently reverses itself about diseases, at one time dismissing measles as a harmless childhood ailment, only to recently  discovering that is a dangerous disease that can have an adverse effect and even lead to death.  The treatment for cancer, heart disease and diabetes is constantly changing as more  becomes known about their pathology. And, of course, race was once believed to exist until other anthropologists disputed this. So nothing is for sure and we only know what we know until we know more. Mathematics come closest to being a constant. 

As for what people believe, if what they believe works for them then, in their world, it's true. As for what they think they know, if their ignorance has provided bliss then, in their world, they're ahead of the game. Somewhere between the abstract and the actual is the adaptation that enables people to navigate through the world at large. One man's reality is another one's skepticism.    

[Delano 800]

Cynique the entire world is an abstraction. The mind is the filter for sensation experience and ideas. We make conclusions on our peception of what happens. Even theory can't escape this nor can numbers. Since they are the product of the mind.

[Cynique 2,038]

Are solid objects and entities abstractions?  I think of abstractions as being intangible ideas and theories that are separate from humans made up of matter and their  geographic environment.

[Delano 800]

Yes because your mind makes them real .

Let's  say you could seperate the brain from the body. 

If you were to electrically stimulate the brain. Those experiences would strike you as real

 

[Cynique 2,038]

Matter is matter, is it not.  Are you saying the physical world doesn't exist, that it is just a figment of the mind?  And what "experience" are you talking about?  Ones that tell you not to drive your car into ongoing traffic or you will be in a collision??

[Delano 800]

E = MC