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Delano

Alpha Males and Miss Communication

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Ah yeah not looking for followers.  To much karma involved with all that guru stuff. But you're right I am not a follower. I am an iconoclast. 

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Cynique, I think I feel more like Del more in this regard.  I know Del came to this realization about himself much sooner than I.

For example, I know people judge me and value what I do by how much money I have and make. In fact, I valued myself the same way, without any real consideration for my nature.  This is what followers do.  They do what they feel is important in the eyes of others rather than themselves.  I this regard I try not to be a follower.  Case in point, a follower can not run a website like AALBC.com.  

But not being a follower is not what makes on an Alpha Male.

To Del point about seeking followers, leaders do not they seek followers; they inspire people to follow them.  Now I occasionally do things that impress people, but I don't think I inspire followers.  For example, I've been engaged in an on going effort to get indie Black webmasters to work together for mutual benefit and while this effort has had small successes, on a larger scale this effort has failed thus far.  This is an attempt to lead that is not succeeding very well--but I keep trying.

If I ever succeed in this effort I would consider myself a real leader, but still not an "Alpha male."

"45" is an Alpha Male. 

I don't perceive myself as an Alpha male. Maybe I'm the Alpha Male of Black Online Booksellers ;)

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Well, an Alpha Male is in the eye of the beholder and has something to do with the pecking order.  This term originated in the animal kingdom in describing how the male of the species will drive off or dominate other males who attempt to challenge his authority within the group.  This is particularly  observable among Lion prides.  And even in a domesticated environment where 2 males cats live under the same roof.  They will fight and the loser has to wait for the winner to finish eating before he can eat his meal from the same plate.  i have personally seen this happen.  

But, if you 2 Beta bruthas don't want to be called "Alpha Males", then so be it.  :P

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@Cynique no I dont aspire to the title. But I encourage critical thinking not agreement.  That last statement is not obvius to everyone. 

So i will repeat something i have said to you specifically. Even when i don't agree with you U can't argue your logic. Plus you are comfortable admitting that you don't know.  What raises my hackles is sloppy thinking combined with a professorial or condescending tone. 

Alrhough I am thinking who am I and why do i feel its my job to refine a person thought process or mental approach.  Its love of thinking however there's an arrogance or presumption I am less interested in keeping alive. 

 

@Troy you are a leader.  Because you care about making the world better. And this site is a testament to that conviction. 

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T rump lacks the confidence or charisma to be an Alpha Male  

The following people I would consider Alpha Males 

Barack Obama 

Bill Gates

Warren Buffet 

Prince 

Miles Davis

Madonna 

Ronald Reagan 

Reggie Jackson 

Jay-Z. 

I would say Nelson Mandela was not an alpha male, but Gandhi was an Alpha. 

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Del regardless of what we think of "45" (I like that name for him), he is the prototypical alpha male.  His rise to presidency just reinforced this.

 

alpha-male.png

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@Troy we are in definitional disagreement. 

Alpha Male is related to pecking order of chickens. The other chickens acknowledge the Alpha's superiority. That doesn't seem to be the case with Trump. Who is increasingly seen as a joke. The Joker or King's fools can not be the Alpha Male. The King holds that spot.

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Del 45 is the President holding perhaps the most powerful office on Earth.  Why is that not analogous to being king? If it because some think he is a joke?  Every president --even Obama, who you identify as an Alpha male, had his detractors and people who thought he was a joke.  Indeed, the large number of Obama detractors is part of the reason Trump is in office (ignoring fake news, media bias, and psychogenic manipulation).

Besides you are not in disagreement with me your issue is with Merriam Webster ;-)

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Emperor Caligula made his horse emperor did that make his horse an alpha male amongst Alpha Males.

Because in fairy tales Kings display regal qualities. What Royalty represents is a symbol of how to conduct yourself. 

If he was an Alpha Male there wouldn't be the global question. How is he the President.  A year ago you couldn't imagine it. You called it jumping the shark. 

Obama detractors question his allegiance.  Trump detractors question his morality, integrity, temperment, intelligence and thinking. 

The other part of being an Alpha Male is being respected. This can be through competence or domination. 

Domination sounds like dominion or the realm of the king. Trump is has sycophants and followers. Who respect the zeroes behind his name. Trump can't get England to  roll out the red carpet.  Trump said I want to be treated like Obama. UK sorry you have no class.  The English are big on class and breeding.

Some titles can't be bought. 

In fairy tales you have to pass trials to become King. You can't be the Ruler if you fall short.

Trump may end up getting impeached. Because you can be impeached for conduct unbecoming of a President. He can be declared unfit for office.

My fuzzy definition is people are envious of the Alpha Male. Who woukd want to be imprisoned in the mind and body of Trump.

He so distasteful that people comment his pudgy Doughboy shape because of his shaming of women. So now we are engaging in the same behaviour  as a response. The Presidency is a product. Each purchase tells you what the public wants.

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4 hours ago, Cynique said:

  

But, if you 2 Beta bruthas don't want to be called "Alpha Males", then so be it.  :P

I am more of  Phi Male. Prefer proportion 

 

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Well I feel rather flattered that I'm considered an "alpha male".....lol.

I don't think it's fits me totally because I don't HAVE to be number one, I'd settle for 2nd or 3rd place as long as my voice is heard and my ideas are considered.

Actutually I've turned down roles of leadership offered to me in a couple organizations in order to take the "advisory" role where I felt my talents would best serve the organization.

Besides......
Brute stength and domination gets you much further ahead in the animal kingdom than among humans where intelligence and social manipulation tends to be just as important for success and getting things accomplished.

But make no mistake about it, WE NEED alpha males because they are the protectors of the community and push the community towards progress by having the courage and boldness to buck the system.


We need men who are competitive, but competitive in the RIGHT way and for the RIGHT reasons.

One of the complaints I have about a lot of young Black males today is that a lot of the smartest ones tend NOT to want to lead or be alpha and dominant but would rather be passive and "chilled" and layed back.....which allows more aggressive men with less talent and intelligence take their spot.

And a lot of the REAL alpha males never even make it to college because they end up in jail as a result of doing something brave but illegal.....or end up dead from conflict with OTHER alpha males!

Black men need to understand that they are in a COMPETITION in this society for money, women, and other resources.
I apologize to Cynique, Mel, and the other women who are reading this who may have gotten offended by my saying that.....but it's the TRUTH.

If Black men aren't out here trying to secure as much wealth and women as they can....even to the point of polygamy.....you can be DAMN SURE White men are out here scheming a way to do it.  I'm seeing more and more White men with not just White and Asian women but Black women too!

What people think movies like 50 Shades of Grey and 50 Shades Darker are all about?
It's promoting the image of the alpha White male!

Say what you want about aggressive and dominaneering men, but I know FEW women who really find passive-ass men with no ambition or desire to own or control anything attractive....sexually.
They may like that guy as a FRIEND (as in fellow girlfriend) but the thought of "cuffing up" with a passive man with no ambition and no desires turns most women I know off.


BTW......
Trump is DEFINATELY an alpha male.
Whenever you check the dictionaries and even wikipedia for the definition of what an alpha male is his picture should POP UP right next to the word


Obama in my opinion was NOT an alpha male.
Some say he was alpha but just stealth and quiet in his moves...but that's not alpha.
He was intelligent and I'm sure had ambition.....but his lack of aggressiveness neither personally nor in his political life disqualifies him from alpha status.

Infact, he's a perfect example of why a man need BOTH intelligence and assertiveness in order to be successful.....because if you're just smart without being bold enough to push your agenda you're still likely to go down as a failure.

Because he wasn't aggressive enough with Trump and the Republicans while he had the opportunity....there's no telling WHAT will happen with him as a result of these wiretapping accusations from Trump.

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More men like Trump. Sounds like a plan.  

Cynique I have changed my mind you are right about the Alpha Male designation. 

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@Troy  based on the favt that yiu and Pioneer also don't see yourselves as Alpha Males. I know that Cynique. I just had a hard time believing it to be true.

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Del


based on the favt that yiu and Pioneer also don't see yourselves as Alpha Males

It's not so much that I DON'T see myself as an alpha male, I said I don't see myself as a TOTALLY alpha male.
In other words there are some aspects about my personality that aren't very alpha.

There are some cases where I'd rather negotiate than engage in head-on conflict like so many alpha males enjoy.

 

Cynique I have changed my mind you are right anout the Alpha Male designation.

Oh....
So now that I'M proud to be called an alpha male, now YOU wanna be an alpha male...lol.

 

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I believe that this "world" or "system" which is based on Western hegimony has designed it so that aggressive, masculine, sexual/sensual men are seen as abnormal and dismissed by society.

Aggressive men like Tupac Shakur or maybe even a Mike Tyson who in past ages would have been considered the "knights in shining armor" who were born to defend the society and would have been revered for their boldness and bravery by society.....are in this society considered socially deviant and are often locked up and even killed off.

Meanwhile the weak, passive, feminine type male is often promoted as the ideal.

They are welcomed in school, at work, and even in tight social circles as their presence is considered "non threatening".

The system promotes the male who keeps his head down, does what he is told in school and at work, and shuffles on home to his wife.

Compare most Asian men with most AfroAmerican and Latino men in this society.

The differences in behavior are striking, and the differences in financial status is also just as striking.

In the past, the dominant alpha male was usually the wealthiest with the most choices among the females and had plenty of offspring; today the dominant alpha male is often unmarried, can't hold a job, can't half take care of his children, and does his best to stay out of jail.

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Man Pioneer you seemed to have internalized ever racial stereotype invented by our oppressor.

Even your reasoning is inconsistent  You implied that the dominant alpha males was usually the wealthiest with the most choice in women, as if that was not longer the case.  But the individuals you presented both had women throwing themselves at these brothers and both were quite wealthy.  

You speak about Black men as if we are gorillas.

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When I look at this current society, I don't see the most dominant alpha males being the most successful financially.

I see a lot of "nerdy" types like Bill Gates or Forbes....men who may be smart but are clearly not very domineering or physically aggressive....enjoying a lot of finacial success in this current society.

Now I'm not saying that their success is not deserved; nor am I saying that men who go around being vulgar and hurting people should be rich.
But let us not say that the most dominant and aggressive men (the real definition of an alpha male) are the one's having the most success today.
Clearly being physically aggressive and trying to "gangster" your way into success doesn't work in this society like it did....say....4000 years ago in the rainforest where it required more physical strength and courage to bring food home to the family.




It has nothing to do with Black men being perceived as gorillas or savages.

It's about a society that has been purposefully engineered from being a predominately blue collar one to a predominately white collar one.

Designed to weed out masculine men who were able to accumulate wealth and take care of their families with factory jobs and skilled trades that didn't require a lot of education but took physical strength and elbow-grease.......

And replace  THEIR jobs with those that require an ever higher degree of education, and fill them with men who "know how to behave themselves" in the work place and not challenge authority.

Besides more cell phones...instead of actually producing a tangible product, this new generation of worker accumulates his wealth primarily by inventing new ways for people to communicate with eachother or plays around with insurance, stocks, and other investments.


I call it "revenge of the nerds".

 

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Pioneer I'm sorry man I'm having trouble following your reasoning.  You are conflating a lot of issues in a manner I find confusing,

  • You can have alpha males in white and blue collar jobs
  • You can have alpha males who are rich or poor.
  • You can have alpha males that are physically imposing and aggressive and those who are nerdy

Again, I guess it boils down to how you define the term, "Alpha Male."  The term like the term "Race," is in the eye of the beholder.  Perhaps because both "Race" and "Alpha Male" are technical terms and are also used more loosely in colloquial settings. I see now it is that later usage which causes the most confusion.

Going back to race for a second.  Suppose I say, "Joe is Black."  If you think about it, what does the really say about Joe?  We can't infer anything specific about how he looks or even his culture.  Describing Joe as "Black" has more to do with the person using the term than Joe himself.

The same is true calling Joe an "Alpha Male." Unless you knew the person making the statement very well, you really could not know what they were saying about Joe unless you asked for clarification.

 

I do agree however that the culture is aligned to create compliant worker bees and blind consumers.  If that means eliminating the "Alpha Males," who would fight against compliance with the program, then I agree with you.

Alpha males don't spend all day scrolling through their Instagram and Twitter feeds.

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Troy

Perhaps because both "Race" and "Alpha Male" are technical terms and are also used more loosely in colloquial settings. I see now it is that later usage which causes the most confusion.

Both terms are used loosely, but both terms have actual definitions and genetically based realities.

Just like race is originally based on the genetics of physical traits that express themselves phenotypically, the concept of Alpha male is based on the genetics of having a high testosterone level that expresses itself in dominance and aggression.

 

I do agree however that the culture is aligned to create compliant worker bees and blind consumers. If that means eliminating the "Alpha Males," who would fight against compliance with the program, then I agree with you.

Alpha males don't spend all day scrolling through their Instagram and Twitter feeds.

Not only don't Alpha males spend all their time on social media, I suspect that social media was designed to BREAK or DISRUPT that socially dominant and extrovert spirit that exists among many alpha and socially successful people.

Too much time with social media tends to make people withdrawn and shy and overly sensitive in the real world.

You see young women walking around angry and looking at every woman they come across in a funny way and you wonder what's wrong with her......it's because she just got through fighting with a bunch of other girls on social media and now she subconsciously associates the girls she comes across in real life as being the girls she was fighting with on twitter or facebook.


I had a conversation with a young man from Korea a few years back and he was proud to say that he working on his doctorate degree at 21 years old in some sort of computer designing program.
I asked him did he have a girlfriend and he said YES, they've been dating for 4 months and it's all been ONLINE.

Alpha males tend to be good at reading people by studying their faces and their expressions while interacting with them, and you can't learn that on social media.....only by dealing with people face to face.

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Yes @Delano, that last message was in reference to Trump.  And yes I realize when I wrote it that it was inconsistent with my previous statement about Trump, but I'm using a different definition of the phrase, "Alpha-Male."

Twitter is optimized to spread gossip and to encourage the piling on to abuse others (as in the Leslie Jones case).  Real men don't gossip or join groups to bully someone, and as a result, have little use for Twitter.

@Pioneer1, of course to you and I that Koren kid's concept of "dating" is laughable, maybe even a bit sad. but it is reflective of the world we live in today. Alpha males have usually had intercourse with someone they describe as dating.

Pioneer your word choice in describing social media is different that what I would use, but we seem to have arrived at the same conclusions. The WWW facilitated freedom and independence which enhances creativity; while social media limits freedom, fosters dependence and crushes creativity by defining a very narrow band of what is possible (eg use of memes. 140 characters, etc).

To an Alpha male being told what to do and how to do it is entirely unacceptable. Followers are happy in this predicament--indeed they need it. Cynique original definition of Alpha Male makes this plain.

I've changed my position and proudly accept the designation of Alpha Male B)

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I sometimes think of Troy as being a voice in the wilderness, worthy of being heard.  I often think of Delano as being his own best friend.  I usually think of  Pioneer as the creator of his own world. I find Mel to be an original thinker, CDBurns a calculated optimist,  and Xeon a discriminating black man. 

I don't know what I am. Coo-coo, I guess.   :blink:

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You are a sagacious and intersting mix of the Sun and Moon. You are holistic and balance or are adept at using both sides. So you can see people clearly.  Except no one sees their own face. 

You stated that we were all Alpha Males. I was the first to acknowledge this fact. Because I am an intellectual alpha. I am sustain by ideas,. We are sentenced by our convictions.  - Del Strachen.

Cynique as i get older i choose my engagements.  And I am okay with walking away. Which is why i am very far from where i started. On more than one level.

Cynique you have summed up the group brilliantly and concisely. 

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Now EVERYBODY wants to be an alpha male......lol.

But remember, you can't have too many alpha males in society because they end up fighting eachother for the role of dominance.

It's the proverbial "took many cooks in the kitchen" or "too many chiefs and not enough indians".

I believe you CAN have more than one, indeed you NEED more than one alpha male in most organizations and in most communities in general because the men responsible for protecting and directing the community must have the aggressiveness and spontaneity that only alphas tend to possess.

However it must also be understood that we need beta and gamma males who don't mind staying in the background following orders and being a force of stability in any organization or community.
Infact, they should be the MAJORITY.

And this is one of the problems I think the Black community in America suffers from.....every brother wants to be the king.

One of the reasons I think Asians are so successful in this society is because so many of them seem to be so "gamma" or less aggressive and spontaneous.
They tend to follow orders and do what society calls "the right thing" (go to school, study hard, go to work, work hard, get married, ect....).
All it takes is one or two alphas among them to lead the way and the rest will just fall in line.

With so many Black people....male and female.....we all want to be leaders or do our own thing.
40 years ago people were complaining that Black people were suffering from a lack of leadership, now it appear since the advent of youtube and facebook there are TOO MANY leaders!






Del

You stated that we were all Alpha Males. I was the first to acknowledge this fact. Because I am an intellectual alpha. I am sustain by ideas,. We are sentenced by our convictions. - Del Strachen


Image result for george jefferson

SAY WHAT?????


Man, you were the FIRST one to jump up and deny being alpha!

Lol....remember saying:  "
Nah , I ain't an Alpha Male but I'll spar with them."

 

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Guest MrsMommy
On 3/11/2017 at 5:16 PM, Troy said:

Del 45 is the President holding perhaps the most powerful office on Earth.  Why is that not analogous to being king? If it because some think he is a joke?  Every president --even Obama, who you identify as an Alpha male, had his detractors and people who thought he was a joke.  Indeed, the large number of Obama detractors is part of the reason Trump is in office (ignoring fake news, media bias, and psychogenic manipulation).

Besides you are not in disagreement with me your issue is with Merriam Webster ;-)

45 is not an alpha male.  Trump is a bully, and most bullies need an audience and simps to soothe their egos.  Put Trump in the ghetto or some poor, disadvantaged group, and you will see him rob and steal from his own brother (which he has) to get what he wants.  Being from a rough and tumble neighborhood; I have seen both bullies and alpha males, and therefore, know the difference.  An alpha will lead the charge and risk getting killed or injured for his beliefs.  A bully takes, steals, robs, lies.  When he attains money from his rich father; he continues robbing, lying, cheating, stealing, raping, and plundering.

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Unfortunately, Alpha Manhood isn't necessarily tied to morals or virtue.

You have GOOD Alpha Males and BAD Alpha Males, just like you have good geniuses and evil geniuses.

The traits that make Alpha Males "alpha" are aggressiveness and dominance, how they USE those traits is up to them.

While some were fakers and punks, most bullies that I knew in school WERE alpha males (and some were alpha females....lol)
Sure they prefered to fight weaker kids who couldn't or wouldn't fight back, but I knew other bullies who fought because they LOVED FIGHTING and would fight anybody.
I knew cats in grade school who would not only fight the kids after school but even try to run up on their PARENT when they came to thier rescue.
These boys weren't punks or cowards.....many of them were crazy or had mental issues that drove them to hyper-aggressiveness....but they weren't scared or weak.


Which reminds me of all this talk of bullying today......

That's why when I'm speaking to young people I don't come at them from a White middle-class perspective of:
"Well if you only stand up to the bully and don't back down....he'll just back off and find another target".

....giving kids all this "fairy tale" advice.

In some sections of Detroit.....and you being from a rough neighborhood you probably know this too.....you call yourself "standing up" to some people would only invite MORE violence.

You kick HIS ass and the next thing you know he's coming back around the block with his boys and probably an Uzi.

Obviously this isn't always the case and honestly, MOST of the time standing up to bullies and those who try to intimidate you for the sake of intimidation will check them then and their and put a positive period on them marking you for further victimization.
But in an age where so many children with mental and emotional problems don't get the help they need, and many no longer care about living or dying nor do they care who they hurt.....it's not about standing up to prove some abstract point but about avoiding them in order to stay alive UNTIL authorities trained to deal with such people can take care of it.

But anyway......

We live in an , interesting world.
The good guys and people who are honest and defend the innocent don't always come out on top like in the movies.

That's why it's so important for GOOD Alpha Males to stand up and defend the community.

 

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45 is uncategorically an alpha male. The term has nothing to do with virtue or morals. He might be an evil Alpha male but he is an alpha male nonetheless. 

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The term Alpha male can be applied to a lot of scenarios. 

Alpha males exist within a group.  An athlete may be an Alpha male on his team, but the coach operating at the behest of higher up is the Alpha male when it comes to policy.   A musician my be an Alpha male when it comes to producing music, but his agent and management will exert authority over him.   

Trump has surrounded himself with a lot wanna-be Alpha Males and they are ruining the country exemplifying what happens with there are "all chiefs and no Indians".     

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An Alpha Male is the recognised dominant male by everyone below him. You could argue that because Trump is the king then he is the de facto Alpha Male.

Which means titles not character make an Alpha Male.

For me Alphas have swag because they know they are Alphas. 

The term is shown in its purest form in both the Animal Kingdom and fairy tales.

The Lion must defend his position to the death. The would be King proves he is worthy to marry the Princess and become the King. Also once you become the ruler, you conduct yourself regally. Failure to meet these points and the Kings is dethroned. Also the King is respected not because of petulant demands.  Rather because they are worthy of respect. Trump has wealth but neither class nor style. For some it doesn't matter because he has the top spot. So he has passed a test of sorts. Since he won the election.  This is also being disputed. So if it turns out that he is removed. Is he still an Alpha Male to you?

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Well it depends Del.  If they throw 45's monkey butt into prison, I seriously doubt he'd be an alpha male in that environment.

However, on the outside, even without the title, he will still be surrounded by sycophants willing to do his bidding and defend his child like behavior. 

If he and I were in a room full of a random selection of sistaz, I think Trump would command far more attention than I. Who would Omarosa gravitate to?  The poor, short, Black dude or the tall, rich, white guy?  I dunno; you tell me?

 

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Alpha males exist within a group. An athlete may be an Alpha male on his team, but the coach operating at the behest of higher up is the Alpha male when it comes to policy. A musician my be an Alpha male when it comes to producing music, but his agent and management will exert authority over him.

That's a pretty interesting way of looking at it.

Perhaps there are levels or ranks of "alphaness" even among Alpha Males

But there are some who insist that a true Alpha male wouldn't submit to ANYONE else's authority.
The most he would accept is a partnership from another human being even when it comes to business and entertainment.




Troy

Inside or outside of prison....just like inside or outside the White House......Trump is still Alpha.

He'd probably find a way to end up running the show and controling people in the pen just like he's doing outside.

Now ofcourse we don't expect a 70 year old man to join the aryan brotherhood and start shanking people and tussling with guards just to prove his dominance....lol.
But he'd probably use his wealth and social skills to gather a bunch of thugs and confidants up under him and after a few months would probably end up running an entire cell block.
......as well as calling shot on the outside.

Kind of like Tookie Williams and Larry Hoover....both alpha males....did.

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