Spirituality is a way of accepting the fact that...

[Troy]

Following up on an earlier conversation on the meaning on spirituality  Just emphasizing the distinction between religion and spirituality:

"The Romans and the Greeks had no color prejudice comparable to the kind of prejudice we would know later on, otherwise why would three Africans become Emperors of Rome? Why would there be three African Popes?

Finally, Constantine decided to make Christianity the religion of the whole of the Roman Empire. Now we’re coming to the critical period when the Roman domination of the church has corrupted the church, the Africans began some disenchantment with the Roman interpretation of Christianity. Constantine called a council of Bishops and Priests at a place called Nice, this is the Nicene Conference.

It is at this conference that the European created a European concept of Christianity. It was at this conference that they began to take the African Saints out of the literature of Christianity. Now the corruption had started. The physical concept of Jesus Christ did not exist. Now how did it come into existence? Because the Pope commissioned it to come into existence.

Regarding the Sistine Chapel ceiling, Michealangelo painted the picture using one of his relatives as a model, and that picture, one of the finest pieces of propaganda ever projected in history, has changed the minds of millions of people, as who is supposed to represent God, whoever He or She is, and I have no problem with the ‘She.’

Spirituality is a way of accepting the fact that: there is a spiritual force in the universe larger than all of mankind. But someone had to come along and invent a word called ‘God.’ Then someone had to say of another God, ‘Mine is better than yours.’ Someone had to create ‘faith’ and say ‘I have the True Faith.’

Religion is the organization of spirituality into something that became the handmaiden of conquerors. Nearly, all religions were brought to people and imposed on people by conquerors and used as the framework to control their minds. 

My main point here is if you are the child of God and God is a part of you, then in your imagination, God’s supposed to look like you!

And when you accept a picture of the Deity assigned to you by another people, you become the spiritual prisoners of that other people."

—John Henrik Clarke from the in the documentary, A Great and Mighty Walk.

The quote above is at the 39 minute 50 sec point in the video below

 

This is not the first time I've posted this video here, but of course there are always people you have yet to discover Dr. Clarke and his work.

[Cynique]

Deepak Chopra put it very succinctly in his quote: 

Religion is believing in someone else's experience; Spirituality is having your own experience. 

[Pioneer1]

Religion is believing in someone else's experience; Spirituality is having your own experience.

I like this quote.


Concerning the quote from Dr Clarke.
He's a great scholar but you have to be careful mentioning historical figures from North Africa and Libya.

Many of these figures were Caucasian racially speaking despite being "African" by region and birth.

A lot of Christians like talking about how Simon of Cyrene who allegedly helped Jesus carry his cross was a Black man because of his North African origins.
Even some movies portray this.
But most Lybians at that time and probably most even today are Caucasian Berbers who were descended from the ancient Greeks who colonized much of North Africa millenia ago.

Caucasians from Greek islands sailed upon the north African coast thousands of years ago and mixed in with the original people's who were Black Africans already there.
They became the Berbers and Moors of history.


I agree with what he said about spirituality though.

[Troy]

@Pioneer1 are you saying Jesus Christ was caucasian?  Are you saying that the Moors were not Black, but of Greek (caucasian) descent?  

Yeah I like deepak's quote too.

[Pioneer1]

No, I'm sorry I kinda thought people may get confused on how I worded that.

Keep in mind that BOTH groups.....Berbers and Moors....got pretty mixed up over the millennia.
Both got heavily mixed with Arabs who came into the area centuries ago.

However I believe that primarily speaking:

1. the Berbers were Caucasians...descendants of the ancient Greeks who colonized North Africa,
2. and the Moors were African/Black...descendants of the original inhabitants of North Africa.

Concerning religious figure "Jesus Christ".......
I'm not sure if he even existed or not.

I believe that a man named Yashua or Issa who lived in ancient Palestine and was a social revolutionary probably DID exist, but so much mythology and falsehood has been attributed to him that it's hard to know the truth of the matter.

What race he was....I don't know.

Unlike most other Black Nationalists I believe the ancient Israelites were actually CAUCASIANS, not Black.
 

[Troy]

Clarke actually addresses the "race" of Jesus in the video.  Whether is it is Jesus or anybody else who lived during that time in the region, we know what those people looked like.  They were not caucasion.

[Cynique]

The mother of a friend of mine, both of whom are now dead, used to always say that in America, especially during the 1920'and 30s, Negroes were also called "Moors".  And of course, in the Shakespeare play "Othello" this character is referred to as a Moor and the role has traditionally been played by a black actor, most notably Paul Robeson.  It has also been played by white actors in black face.  

People always talk about the bible describing Jesus as having woolly hair like lamb.     

[Troy]

Cynique, I never heard that about Black people being called Moors.  That is the benefit of having access to someone who has been around more than 5 minutes.

I notice that you included the fact the both were dead. Do you miss them? Do you miss the earlier times in which those two were alive? I think I will start another conversation with this question.

[Pioneer1]

Troy

It's hard to argue ancient history because there isn't a lot of PROOF to verify hypotheses.
The only thing you can do is gather as much EVIDENCE as you can to support your argument and hope it outweighs the opposition.

This is why I say I BELIEVE (as opposed to know) that the Israelites were Caucasian.

As much respect as I have for Clarke and many other Black scholars, how do they KNOW what color the people of ancient Palestine were?
Are there pictures on the walls and paintings of Jesus and the other ancient people of that region like we can find of the ancient Egyptians to verify their color?
I'm sure they varied in color and shade as they do today with plenty of influx of people from Greece, Roman, Egypt, Ethiopia, southern Arabia, as well as the native Palestinians.

Also, we should deal with the term "Caucasian" because I choose to use IT as opposed to "White" for a reason.
White....like the term "Black" is too simplistic and limits an entire racial group to a particular color or shade.
We have Africans who are jet Black as well as those called the Khoi who are small and yellow with nappy hair.
It's the same with the Caucasian race....some are White with brown hair, others are tanned with blonde hair and blue eyes.
They vary in complexion like we do and many of them are slightly mixed with other races, but they all belong to the same major group...the Caucasoid group.

Europeans, Indo-Aryans, Semites (of which the Israelites are a part of) I believe are all branches of the same Caucasian race.

 

Cynique

I've read the bible from cover to cover.
It's been a while....lol....but I have.

That verse that describes Jesus' hair like wool that so many Black folks love quoting acdtually states that his head and hair were WHITE like wool....not curly or kinky like wool.

I'm waaaay past trying to make Jesus a Black man.
It really doesn't matter to me one way or the other.

But I do believe based on overwhelming evidence that the Moors were Black.
 

[Guest Dr John Henry clarke]

On 4/3/2017 at 4:14 PM, Troy said:

And when you accept a picture of the Deity assigned to you by another people, you become the spiritual prisoners of that other people

 

[Stefan]

On 4/3/2017 at 8:49 PM, Pioneer1 said:

A lot of Christians like talking about how Simon of Cyrene who allegedly helped Jesus carry his cross was a Black man because of his North African origins.
 

Let me clear up this misconception about Simon of Cyrene. There are three mentions of a Simon of Cyrene in the Bible, which relates he was pressed into carrying the wood that Jesus of Nazareth was impaled upon. However, the scriptures at Matthew 27:32, Mark 15:21 and Luke 22:36 which mention Simon of Cyrene make no indication that this man was Black. 

Cyrene was on the north coast of Africa, but the complexion of the indigenous people from this region tends to match those of other African living north of the Sahara Desert. And they are not Black, according to anthropologists. 

It is Africans from sub-Sahara Africa who tend to be dark skinned and Black.

Which is why many Blacks confuse Simon of Cyrene with Symeon, who was from Niger, a Black area of Africa. (Acts 13:1-3).

Symeon was an early believer in Jesus of Nazareth. While Symeon was obviously Black, there is indication that Symeon carried the wood that Jesus was impaled upon. So the two men were different people.

As the Book of Acts, relates, Symeon is also one of the prophets and teachers of the congregation in Antioch, Syria, who laid their hands on Barnabas and Paul after the Holy Spirit had designated these two for missionary work.

Symeon’s Latin surname was Niger.

[Pioneer1]

Stefan

What did I say that was a "misconception"?

Nothing you said disagreed with my statement.
You just provided more detail.

[Stefan]

9 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Stefan

What did I say that was a "misconception"?

Nothing you said disagreed with my statement.
You just provided more detail.

I never said YOU yourself created any misconception.

I said there is a misconception about these two different men with similar sounding names.

What you did is claim that Simon of Cyrene was Black. However, few people from North Africa at the time of the Biblical Apostles were noted by historians or anthropologists as being Black. 

A lot of people believe Hannibal was Black as well. But this warrior/conqueror was actually a Berber.

According to scholarly sources, Berbers were the descendants of pre-Arab inhabitants of North Africa who lived in scattered communities in what is now known as Morocco, Tunisia, Algeria and Libya.

Hannibal's father was reportedly Carthaginian General Hamilcar Barca who fought Rome during the First Punic War. Unfortunately, Greek historian Polybius and Roman historian Livy are the two primary sources for Hannibal's life. 

 

How do we know Hannibal had to be from North Africa?

When Rome decided to take its revenge on Hamilcar and Hannibal for previous wars, its legions destroyed the city of Carthage which is believed to have been in modern day Tunisia.