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Cynique

 

Being attracted to a man is not necessarily the same as a man being attractive. A woman can be attracted to a brilliant dynamic man who dresses well, exudes a certain confidence and respires with animal magnetism but who does not have a handsome face. And she may be turned off by an attractive man with handsome chiseled features but who has a conceited cocky demeanor and talks, but can't walk a good game.

Some women don't like pretty men and to others, power is a great aphrodisiac. Last but not least, one of a man's most attractive features in hidden in his groin. Size matters.

You're reading what I'm saying, but you're not taking time to COMPREHEND it.

If you DID, you'd realize that you're basically proving my point.....lol.

That point being.....
Although anyone can have an opinion about the attractivenesss of another, those who are ALREADY sexually oriented towards them are BEST qualified to determine how attractive they really are.

And your latest post basically backs that up by stating the various qualities a woman (straight woman) may find attractive or unattractive about a man that a lesbian woman or a straight man may not pick-up on or overlook...simply because they aren't interested.

Good job.

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@Pioneer1What point are you trying to make by posting pictures of 2 physically ugly men?     Since what i implied and what you claim is also your point, this point being that  perception of attractivemess is a subtle subjective determination that is in the eye of the beholder, then why even broach the silly subject?     Who needs your flawed ambiguous observation that only women and gay men  are qualified to judge attractiveness in straight males. If, as you also imply, physical attraction is universal, anybody can judge someone else's attractiveness no matter what their sex or sexual orientation is.  A straight man could very well understand what a woman would see in a man that wasn't physically attractive but  had a good personality and money, or in a man who had standard good looks like a movie star who was very photogenic.    

And in spite of your "revulsion", there are some men who might find Gabourey attractive. 

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Cynique

And in spite of your "revulsion", there are some men who might find Gabourey attractive.

Well there are "some" men who'll fine ANYBODY attractive.
As long as a person has a hole....they'll run up in it, lol.
But I NEVER said I found Gabourey revolting.
You may want to question Xeon on some of that language....not me.

 

 

point are you trying to make by posting pictures of 2 physically ugly men?

Showing you that even as a straight man....when it comes to extreme examples I can still judge somewhat whether or not some men would be considered PHYSICALLY attractive or unattractive to most women.




women or gaySince what i implied and what you claim is also your point, this point being that perception of attractivemess is a subtle subjective determination that is in the eye of the beholder, then why even broach the silly subject?

No, no, nooooo..........that's NOT my point.

ONCE AGAIN, my point is:

Although anyone can have an opinion about the attractivenesss of another, those who are ALREADY sexually oriented towards them are BEST qualified to determine how attractive they really are!

 


Who needs your flawed ambiguous observation that only women and gay men are qualified to judge attractiveness in straight males.

YOU...for one.....if you didn't already know this.
And it appears that you didn't.

So now consider yourself educated, lol.



If, as you also imply, physical attraction is universal, anybody can judge someone else's attractiveness no matter what their sex or sexual orientation is. A straight man could very well understand what a woman would see in a man that wasn't physically attractive but had a good personality and money, or in a man who had standard good looks like a movie star who was very photogenic.

NO, that's not always the case.
Infact, that's USUALLY not the case.
Sometimes a straight man can figure some things out based on experience and observation as well as what other men and women have told him.....but it's still not the same as having an inborn predisposition of being attracted to a certain group that allows you to focus on more details.

I'm not sure what gay men focus on the most, but most straight men focus MOSTLY on a woman's looks in determining whether or not she's attractive to him.
It's not the only thing, there are other factors...but looks are the biggest.

It's very hard for a straight man to naturally get inside the head of a woman to look at a man through HER eyes.  Most pimps and players can do it, which is why they tend to be more successful with women than the average man.
How many times have you heard a man who wants a particular woman who left him for another man complain about,
"Why him?"
"What does HE have that I ain't got???"


He's looking at attraction through HIS eyes, instead of hers.
So still, while anyone can judge....the BEST judges are those predisposed to find that particular group attractive.

I know you're smart enough to figure out what I'm saying, stop acting crazy and giving me a hard time on this.....you know I'm right.

Dont' just sit up and argue with me over NOTHING.

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@Pioneer1Well, you were the one who said i was making your point and that was my point, now you're backtracking and trying to do damage control, losing yourself in a maze of semantics and contradictions.  

You can contend til you're blue in the face and i will continue to cast a jaundiced eye at your generalizations and your insistence that you know how all gay men think and, further,  that you can speak for all straight men - and not back this up with something other than some anecdotal theory you conjured up in StarBucks because you are fixated on assigning certain traits to men and women and gays and straights, and blacks and whites, - while not possessing a degree in anthropology.    

i'm trying to give straight men the benefit of the doubt in the hopes that they are not as brutish and thick-skulled as you are portraying them to be.   Anybody  is capable of distinguishing between a mental assessment as opposed to a physical or financial one.   A straight man may not want to screw such a guy but i firmly believe that they recognize a good specimen of manhood when they see one. or am i dissuaded by your opinion that a straight man wouldn't understand what a women would see in a brilliant or rich man who is not physically appealing.  If they can't, they are in denial. And, everybody of all sexes and persuasions wonders what their ex-mate sees in the rival who has stolen the object of their affection away, because they are blinded by jealousy. You're skating on slippery slope when you make  your stringent conjectures.  

So we have to agree to disagree.      

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“Come on man, how are you gonna put Viola Davis and Gabourey Sidibe in the same catagory?”

You misunderstood what my point was. My point was having a darker complexion and Negroid facial features puts you at odds with the universal standard of beauty. I was very clear about what the standard is and that it is global. I’m not suggesting that I agree with it -but it is what it is. And nothing said in this forum or by anyone who is black is going to change it….

“Just about the ONLY thing those two women share in common is their dark skin!

Well, I agree. But if Gabby lost 100 pounds -why would Viola Davis be more attractive? What facial features would clearly make her face more attractive than Gabby’s? The structural shape of her face (considering if Gabby lost 100 lbs)? Her nose? The shape and size of her mouth? Spatial separation of the eyes? Her hair? WHAT? Again -what would make, Viola Davis’s face (in your opinion) more attractive than Gabby’s? Details please….


“Nothing against her as a person, but physically speaking Sidibe's lack of physical attractiveness has NOTHING to do with her dark skin and more to do with her weight, bodily shape, and the shape of her face.”
 

### Once again -I agree. Her weight is a distraction to what she really looks like. And her having a dark complexion only adds fuel to the fire (especially for Negroes). Black people seem to recoil (and for good reasons) to the fact that having a dark complexion lowers a females desirability ranking (when using the universal standard of beauty). The aversion to dark complexions is across the board in most of the world's cultures. Don’t think so? Do you know how many people are in China and India alone? Those two nationalities contribute to slightly under a “third of the world’s population”! For those two groups alone, which do you think elevates a woman’s desirability –a dark complexion or a light complexion? Among Arabic and Latinos (including Brazil), which elevates a woman’s attractiveness –dark complexion or a light complexion? In all of Africa, which color will give a woman greater social opportunity and conjuration –a dark complexion or a light complexion?

I can personally tell you a light complexion is seen as most desirable among Koreans, Filipinos, Indonesians, Vietnamese, Japanese, Malaysians, et al. Next to Africa, the Asian market sales for skin lighteners is very strong. Sales are very robust and on an upward trajectory! Skin lighteners are also very popular in parts of the Middle East, the Caribbean, and Latin America. Sorry if this offends you -but it is what it is….


“Are you telling me that if all of her other physical characteristics remained the same but she was 5 shades lighter then all ofa sudden she would be considered attractive?”

You didn’t consider the other factors I stated that align with the universal standard. Skin complexion is one factor in the triad. But to answer your question, in my opinion –no! She would still have an unmistakable Negroid face. I personally do not have an issue with it but in terms of global beauty standards, she most likely would fall short. But if she lost the weight, I don’t think she would be as unattractive as you feel. Just my opinion….

Let me further my point. In Singapore, there are three major ethnic groups, Malaysians, Chinese and East Indian. As far as bodies are concerned, the Chinese and Malaysians females have the better bodies, especially legs. The Indian women, not so much when compared side by side to the Malaysians and Chinese. But the Indian women are much more attractive in the face. It’s a no contest bro –TRUST ME! Now, this is what you want to hear –the Indian woman have much darker skin complexions than the Malaysians and Chinese. This harks to a notorious American Negro faux pas, “For a dark skinned gurl she really do look good!”


“Look at that Mama June character from Honey BooBoo:”

Ya know, I have no idea why you chose to bring this white woman into this discussion. Yes, she is very unattractive. BUT WHY DID YOU CHOOSE TO INJECT THIS WOMAN INTO A DISCUSSION ABOUT GABBY SIDIBE AND VIOLA DAVIS? We are discussing the opinions about the controversy of Viola Davis’s cover picture on Time magazine and your comparison to Gabby Sidibe (which I did not understand either).

“She's got all the genetics you speak of. Do you think SHE looks better than a dark skinned Viola?either).”

Uhhhhh…you really don’t want to go there. Your selection of this white woman was capricious and arbitrary! You picked her specifically to make a nefarious point. Honey Boo Boo’s physical appearance is nowhere near the average looking white female! Black women who look like Viola Davis are common! There is nothing unusual or extreme about the way she looks. I’m not suggesting that she is the standard –but she is not unusual looking! The picture you posted of Honey Boo Boo is unusual and extreme! E’uff said…..
 

 

 

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There are beautiful women in all complexions.  Of course, this is not a universally shared opinion.

Obviously, in western cultures, higher levels of beauty are often associated with people who have lighter complexions but as I've argued continuously this is a consequence of living in a white culture.

@Xeon, the colorism you describe in Asian cultures may actually have more to do with class. Darker skinned people are associated with the woking class, outdoor laborers. 

By the way, I think Gabby actually did lose about 100 pounds:

9780544786769.jpg

 

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Cynique

You can contend til you're blue in the face and i will continue to cast a jaundiced eye at your generalizations and your insistence that you know how all gay men think and, further, that you can speak for all straight men - and not back this up with something other than some anecdotal theory you conjured up in StarBucks because you are fixated on assigning certain traits to men and women and gays and straights, and blacks and whites, - while not possessing a degree in anthropology.


Your eye isn't jaundiced.
Your vision is yellow because of the straw from that big ass STRAW-MAN argument you've been erecting.

You've purposely IGNORED every balanced thing I've been saying concerning straight men and women and their abilities to judge members of the same sex in order to paint my position as extreme and onesided......and then proceed to go to war against it.

Because I realize this, I've come to the conclusion that it's a waste of time to keep repeating myself.



So we have to agree to disagree.

I'm afraid we can't, because YOU wouldn't allow THAT to happen.
If I DID start agreeing with you on ANYTHING (including respectful disagreement).....you'd either act like you didn't read it or CHANGE your opinion, lol.





Xeon


You misunderstood what my point was. My point was having a darker complexion and Negroid facial features puts you at odds with the universal standard of beauty. I was very clear about what the standard is and that it is global. I’m not suggesting that I agree with it -but it is what it is. And nothing said in this forum or by anyone who is black is going to change it….

I don't know if I'd call it "universal" standards of beauty.
The promotion of White women as the epitome of feminine beauty is a result of Western cultural imperialism and influence.

Can you find me one indigenous culture that HASN'T been touched or influenced by the
West that holds White skin, blonde hair, and blue/green eyes as standards of female beauty?



 

Well, I agree. But if Gabby lost 100 pounds -why would Viola Davis be more attractive? What facial features would clearly make her face more attractive than Gabby’s?
Her poThe structural shape of her face (considering if Gabby lost 100 lbs)? Her nose? The shape and size of her mouth? Spatial separation of the eyes? Her hair? WHAT? Again -what would make, Viola Davis’s face (in your opinion) more attractive than Gabby’s? Details please….

Well for one, her larger more open eyes.
Her thicker more lushious lips.
They may be the same complexion by Viola's skin seems to be more even toned and clearer where as Gabourey's is more "grainy" with dark patches.
Viola is smiling in the photo while Gabourey is not, but her teeth and smile are wonderful too.

In my opinion, fat or not Viola is generally just more physically attractive.
Her "negroid" features and complextion has little to do with this while her FEMININE features do.

 

Let me further my point. In Singapore, there are three major ethnic groups, Malaysians, Chinese and East Indian. As far as bodies are concerned, the Chinese and Malaysians females have the better bodies, especially legs. The Indian women, not so much when compared side by side to the Malaysians and Chinese. But the Indian women are much more attractive in the face. It’s a no contest bro TRUST ME! Now, this is what you want to hear –the Indian woman have much darker skin complexions than the Malaysians and Chinese. This harks to a notorious American Negro faux pas, "For a dark skinned gurl she really do look good!"

I haven't been aroune many Malaysian women.
The few that I have seen tended to be covered up because most of them were Muslim.
But I have seen Chinese women and Indian women and TO ME, not only did Indian women look better in the face, but their body was bangin' too....far superior to the average Chinese woman.

Most Chinese women I've seen tended to have slim hips and a flatter chest, which isn't very attractive TO ME. Where as most Indian women tended to have very wide hips and thick legs and breasts which to me is extremely attractive.

So I guess it's just a matter of opinion.



 

Ya know, I have no idea why you chose to bring this white woman into this discussion. Yes, she is very unattractive. BUT WHY DID YOU CHOOSE TO INJECT THIS WOMAN INTO A DISCUSSION ABOUT GABBY SIDIBE AND VIOLA DAVIS? We are discussing the opinions about the controversy of Viola Davis’s cover picture on Time magazine and your comparison to Gabby Sidibe (which I did not understand either).

Because your argument is that Gabourey and Viola are considered unattractive because of their African features and I brought her in as an example of a WHITE WOMAN with WHITE FEATURES who was still unattractive!

How does a White woman with fully so-called "European" or "Caucasian" features (and I say so-called because millions of pure Black Africans have the same features in East Africa) like small nose, small lips, blonde hair, White skin, ect......STILL end up being unattractive?

Because racial phenotype doesn't determine one's attractiveness in the first place.
You have attractive and unattractive women in all races and the pictures I provided illustrate that.

 

Honey Boo Boo’s physical appearance is nowhere near the average looking white female!

Lol.....you need to come to the Midwest!

I'll find you about 15 in every Wal-Mart.

 



The aversion to dark complexions is across the board in most of the world's cultures. Don’t think so? Do you know how many people are in China and India alone? Those two nationalities contribute to slightly under a "third of the world’s population"! For those two groups alone, which do you think elevates a woman’s desirability –a dark complexion or a light complexion? Among Arabic and Latinos (including Brazil), which elevates a woman’s attractiveness –dark complexion or a light complexion? In all of Africa, which color will give a woman greater social opportunity and conjuration –a dark complexion or a light complexion?

Every single one of these cultures and nations have been heavily influenced and colonized by White Europeans.
Western culture has left it's mark on the thinking of the people by not only telling them that White women are more beautiful, but that White men are smarter and White morality and technology is superior to their own.


But the strange thing is.......
As much as White men have tried to convince the rest of the world that White women are the epitome of beauty and femininity....THEY have been busy having sex with nearly every woman of color they have colonized.

If women of color...women with brown or black skin were considered so unattractive then my question to you is why did so many European men HAVE SEX WITH THEM by the milllions when they came to the Americas or went to Africa, India, or China?

They had millions of thier own White women to choose from, why go outside for the "less attractive"?

Infact, why are so many White women STILL going to Asia and Africa literally BUYING Black and Brown women as wives and sex partners?
I mean, paying HUGE sums of money to these women and thier families just for the right to have sex with them or marry them.....with all of these single White women available for them in the United States and Europe?

Something isn't adding up.......

If White women are in such demand, why aren't more rich White (or Asian, or African) men scouring trailer parks and poor sections of Eastern Europe offering money to them and their families to marry them like they're doing Asian and African and Central American women?



 

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@Pioneer1 Well, your first mistake was to say that i was making your point.  We should've let it drop at that.  My mistake was that i didn't know what i was arguing about because we seemed to have been going in circles  almost to the point of mixing apples and oranges.  Next time you come out with one of your revelations i'll just say, "so what else is new? :D 

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