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Troy

Another Controversial Time Magazine or Can Black Women Catch a Break

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15 hours ago, Delano said:

Stupidity Brawn and hyper violence and sexuality. Thats keeping it real for some folks. How's that working for us?

BAM!!!

It doesn't.  Or at least in my memory most who exhibited this behavior line the walls of society's jails and/or are food for the earth. 

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20 hours ago, Cynique said:

I was particularly piqued in your remarks about Bugs Bunny which brought to mind  my oldest grandson who was in the wrong place at the wrong time and was shot down in a drive by killing at age 22.  He was very attracted to the street life and tried to take on the identity of homeboy from the hood something that required him to adopt an alter ego and speak Ebonics in order to impress who he wanted to be his peers.  Whenever he and i talked he always spoke the way he was raised to.  Anyway he was introduced to classical music via Bug Bunny cartoons when he was a little boy and came to like it as much as gangsta rap. i always think of him whenever i hear "Spring Song" by Mendelssohm.  

@Cynique, I'm so sorry for your loss and ours.  When I read this initially, I couldn't process it right away.   I got choked up.  Then while revisiting my photos for the National Museum of African American History and Culture... I started to cry.   We can go so many ways in this life... I don't know what's it like to be a black man in this society and for some black women, It may seem that I don't know what's it's like to be a "black woman"... but like you, we've experienced so many things and taken advantage of a lot of what life has to offer.   I was drawn to you for that very reason... Prior to reading your first hand accounts,  I thought I was just "lucky" ..Then I noticed the theme and pattern in your accounts that allowed me tor realize; it's not luck but choices and resourcefulness. 

I, like your grandson, love rap and classical music equally. I'm not  surprised your grandson was intrigued by the streets..around the same age or I was a little older,  I remember going to an award show with Big Daddy Kane and we went to this after party.  While we getting ready to go through the door; I heard this crack and thud... Kane had cold cocked this dude and literally knocked him to the ground.  Rush (Russell Simmons) who was already in the club came out and ushered us in quickly.  I've entertained in my home the now deceased Professor X...Lamumba Carson... Or drag raced against a man down Atlantic Avenue in Brooklyn,  who I later found out was very connected to the streets, rap music and cyber crime.. but I dated him for several years...(even though I had a baby daughter to consider.  

All this to say, that's what an upbringing that exposes you to so many different worlds will do for you...It expands the mind in ways that average folks will never understand...

I can't speak for your grandson but I followed a similar path as he did and learned a lot. I can only wonder if it was a "Class" for him too.   I'm so sorry he's not here to share his stories.  It makes me even more committed to getting stuff down in print... because NOTHING and No day is promised to us - but every day we breath we have to experience as much as we can.  Thank you Cynique, thank you so much for sharing you, with us! <3

 

 

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20 hours ago, Cynique said:

This is why i chide Troy from time to time about his having such contempt for TV, There is much to be gained on the way to learning a little bit about a lot of things through watching television.  Nowadays if you are selective in your viewing there is still  a broad spectrum to be observed on television about the world and the life and times that we live in.  

Absolutely! I've learned a lot from television! And even today, often times writers give hints how to navigate unfamiliar worlds..I've always sucked at office politics so thank goodness my time in traditional corporate america was limited ...but I did learn how to navigate those office reindeeer games by watching shows such as The Good Wife and  even "The Black List"...

While I'm sure the players display hyper-misbehavior ... stereotypes are stereotypes for a reason ... and there's much to be learned from watching these characters interact with the plot.  Especially since those plots are taken from life.   Television is a tool and if you know how to use it, it will serve you well.  

 

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Troy you say that the media is portraying this stereotype. Then you say to Cynique that middle age rappers dress like 20 somethings. Q-Tip said he shops at Kmart. Nelly said it best when speaking on a panel about negative images in hip hop. I would love to make videos with positive images. But the public won't buy it."

You have a few categories of Rap 70's through 80's.

Party Rappers , Hustling Rappers, Social Justce, Political, and Philosophical and Super Hero , Everyman , Under Dog and Top Dog. What sells is negativity. 

Hey Twin. You consistently say what i feel but more eloquently. Cynique you are wealth of knowledge and a treasure. 

Thank you,

Del

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i, myself,  am a tad "street".  i like a little edginess and danger.  In my 30s, even after i was married, because me and my husband both felt that we deserved some respite from the humdrum of working every day and raising kids and paying bills, Friday  was his poker playing and beer-drinking night and  Saturday was my league bowling night out "with the girls".  I had a good running buddy who had a little spirit of adventure like me.  And after we'd be done bowling about 9:PM, we would go hang out in  hole in the wall joints, sit at the bar and let guys buy us drinks, and engage us in conversation.  I met some very interesting intriguing characters on these occasions. hard-workin dudes,  rough around the edges, very shrewd and streetwise and sexy but who'd never go any further than you'd let them. By the time our midnight curfew came around, after we'd finished drinkin and smokin and doing the Bump and the Funky Broadway on the dance floor, me and my girl friend would take our leave. My husband never complained about this activity because after i got home, he'd reap the benefits of my vodka-primed missionary position. :P

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Del I'm talking about the most popular rappers like Little Wayne or Snoop, not the Q-Tips.  The rappers that the majority of the world know and regularly see.  I agree, rappers span the gamut and there are a great variety of them.  I was NOT indicting rappers, I was indicting the media images which depict grown men behaving as boys and the adverse stereotypes and they create and the resulting behavior the result when Black men mimic the images they see.

Don't get me wrong it is not that I don't watch TV.  I just don't watch very much of it.  Unless I'm watching a documentary about don't use that media to learn about people.  Similarly, I'm sure there are people who think I'm missing out on learning about the world and people by opting out of social media.

I don't think so, I think we can learn much more about each other by reading books, articles, and even posts on discussion forums like this.

And Cynique, I've on the business end of the "vodka-primed-girls-night-out" so I 'm what you are saying :wub:

 

 

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Cynique

As opposed to you who can't gush enough adoration for Farrakhan.

Not adoration but ADMIRATION certainly.
I think he is one of the greatest Black leaders of our time.

Who else do you know can call 2 million Black men together in one location?

 

at some point all 3 of them lived together in the same house

Sounds like my type of guy.......lol.





Troy


Now I know full well many Black are full of self-hate, but I really did not appreciate how Black women feel about Black men. Now Cynique and Mel do not represent all Black women and I'm sure I can find Black women who disagree with them. Still, I hope their opinion is not widespread. I hope my daughters do not grow to feel this way...

It will last as long as we are under the system of White supremacy.
Women.....not just Black women but women of all races.....are taught to love and respect White men unconditionally in this society.

It starts in the church with a picture of a White Jesus with blonde hair and blue eyes that little girls of color are introduced to in childhood.
They grow up believing that THAT is the perfect man whom they should love and trust in.

...and it just continues from there.


There is a subconscious love for White men and White authority that has been instilled in them since childhood and the only antidote is Black males achieving enough wealth and power in society that it COMPELLS Black women to respect them.

This is why the drug dealer, pimp, and hustler often have a much better relationship with Black women than the so-called "good" brothers do.
They don't rely on White standards of respect and civility.....they rely on NATURE'S.





Del


I didn't consider they could be gay. Until it was suggested that they and me by extension could be gay.

It's not relevant. What is interesting is that liking art makes one gay. We'll all rappers are gay because they are poets.

Come on man, almost anyone over 30 almost automatically associates men who perform ballet with being gay.....and justifiably so.

Just like Cynique wondered if Viola's male hairstylist was gay.



Liking ballet, poetry, art, ect....doesn't necessarily make one gay.
But some professions are just dominated by women and gay men.

Not sure why so many male hair stylists are gay (or even if they are), but I suspect that most male ballet dancers are gay because it would be harder for a straight man to squeeze and grab on so many women all day without getting an erection.

We can't have that constantly happening on stage....lol.

 



Stupidity Brawn and hyper violence and sexuality. Thats keeping it real for some folks. How's that working for us?

Actually, encouraging Black men to act feminine and gay is just as detrimental to the Black community as encouraging them to be violent and hypermasculine.

One is passive genocide and the other is active genocide.

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Mel

It doesn't. Or at least in my memory most who exhibited this behavior line the walls of society's jails and/or are food for the earth.

I agree that the reckless violence and aggression you see some young Black men exhibiting is selfdestructive however......

I notice that for the past 30 years or so conservative White women have been ENCOURAGING White men to be more masculine, aggressive, and take back their manhood.
They even push it among little boys with the Dr. Laura's of the world.

But I don't see Black females conservatives pushing the same thing.

I see to many pushing the slave narrative of,
"keep your mouth shut, head down, and do what you're told and you'll be successful" to a lot of Black boys.

So a lot of White conservative and Republican women are ENOURAGING masculinity among their boys, while a lot of Black conservative and even liberal women seem to be encouraging conformity among THEIR boys.

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@Pioneer1 

2 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Who else do you know can call 2 million Black men together in one location?

Any black leader could've done this.  Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, Julian Bond. Black men are what made it successful, not the leader.  Interesting that 20 years after this monumental gathering, nothing had changed among the ranks of black men - except that Farrakhn may have gotten a little richer and more long-winded.  ;)

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No one knows who Jullian Bond is and I seriously doubt Jessie of Sharpton could have done what Farrakhan did.  The primary reason is that Farrakhan is viewed as his own man.  A "Man's man" if you will.  Sharpton and Jessie have the reputation of pimping corporations and are dependent upon them.

Can you image a Million Man March, sponsored by McDonalds or Coke?

 

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@Troy Julian Bond was the National President of the NAACP with an impressive civil rights resume. (It wasn't just young black men who attended this event)   Jesse Jackson could have just as easily organized this march because it was something black men were "up for" and it took on a life of its own.  So it didn't matter who the leader was.No corporate sponsors were needed.  How much did it cost to put it on?   Everybody paid their own way.   Al Sharpton or even Tavis Smiley could've probably pulled it off. All Farrakhan had to do was show up and take advantage of a captive audience for one of his boring, self-serving, marathon speeches.

And black men who were always whining about not being supported by their women, stiffed them on this occasion because chauvinist Farrakhan discouraged any participation on the part of women who wanted to be represented by groups showing their support, - and this created a rift. 

When all these black men returned to their home bases, did Farrakhan and the black Muslims do anything to address and resolve their grievances. Nothing changed. 

You and Pioneer can extol this guy all you want, but you'll never convert me to being a fan because i dislike the grim,furtive, misogynistic  islamic religion and the men who bask in it while exploiting their followers in general and women in particular..  

 

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6 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:


Mel

It doesn't. Or at least in my memory most who exhibited this behavior line the walls of society's jails and/or are food for the earth.

I agree that the reckless violence and aggression you see some young Black men exhibiting is selfdestructive however......

I notice that for the past 30 years or so conservative White women have been ENCOURAGING White men to be more masculine, aggressive, and take back their manhood.
They even push it among little boys with the Dr. Laura's of the world.

But I don't see Black females conservatives pushing the same thing.

I see to many pushing the slave narrative of,
"keep your mouth shut, head down, and do what you're told and you'll be successful" to a lot of Black boys.

So a lot of White conservative and Republican women are ENOURAGING masculinity among their boys, while a lot of Black conservative and even liberal women seem to be encouraging conformity among THEIR boys.

@Pioneer1 This an interesting view from your world.  

I live in a different world.  My world doesn't consist of  radio talk show hosts, conservatives vs-liberals, etc.. I live in a world or at least I surround myself with people who are balanced - focused knowledgeable, with many being polymaths or specialists in their fields. None (unless they're in the closet) ascribe to hyper-masculinity or  hyper-femininity  or even cling to those personality traits as a badge of honor.   In an effort to keep their world balanced they push  boundaries in an attempt to evolve.   I can't speak about those conservatives who are not changing with the times... while I used to report on them - I don't know any personally.  NOTE: I raised my girls in Wheeling, WV and then Naperville, IL and it doesn't get any whiter than that - and  I didn't know of any upper middle class white women to raise their boys to be hyper-masculine and agressive.  The proof of their efforts are in the millennial men that you see at the top of the food chain today.  Not a nary one of those young billionaires are hyper-masculine nor are their peers and counterparts.  

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Del

I didn't consider they could be gay. Until it was suggested that they and me by extension could be gay.

It's not relevant. What is interesting is that liking art makes one gay. We'll all rappers are gay because they are poets.

Come on man, almost anyone over 30 almost automatically associates men who perform ballet with being gay.....and justifiably so.

Just like Cynique wondered if Viola's male hairstylist was gay.



Liking ballet, poetry, art, ect....doesn't necessarily make one gay.
But some professions are just dominated by women and gay men.

Not sure why so many male hair stylists are gay (or even if they are), but I suspect that most male ballet dancers are gay because it would be harder for a straight man to squeeze and grab on so many women all day without getting an erection.
You are diminishing Black Gay Men. And your statements are similar to that of a Racist. No gayness has been as destructive.

Ta-Nahesi Coates is one of the most important writers of our time. He wrote for the Atlantic  , he wrote a few issues of Marvel's Black Panther comic book. And he says he was influenced by James Baldwin's brilliance as a writer. It didn't make Coates a homosexual. Even though Baldwin's writing was informed by both his Blackness and gayness. Coates could see the brilliance of Baldwin's writing. 

Prince is probably one of the most influential and revered musicians of our time. And was bisexual at least in the early part of his career. He didn't see borders or restrictions. He saw musical expression. 

Perhaps people who are fluid sexually also are fluid creatively. Your dislike of the other,  mirrors fundamentalist and other racist/prejudiced people.  Which in  the absence of White Supremacy does not bode well for Black Unification. 

I believe Prince and Miles Davis were brilliant musicians. But not socially intelligent. I can separate the art from the artist. The activist from their actions.  People have flaws and i can't vilify their success even though i dont find their character inspiring. 

 

i admire any individual that can move confidently in a field that discriminates or  tries to exclude them.

i don't follow Baseball but i can acknowledge the importance of Jackie Robinson. Why  because he is an inspiration to other people to fight against opposition in the quest of self expression. 

I don't want my thinking fettered by prejudiced.  Some small minded people will see me as gay. Which isn't my problem. Why does someone's sexuality matter, unless you are attracted to them on some level.

So my lack of discrimination or lower prejudices enabled me to be the only person to answer Mel's question , "Name two Black Men that have helped women? " To the satisfaction of both Mel and Cynique. The beauty was that Mithchell was from Harlem the Black Mecca but didn't come to mind. Since we were focusing on obvious social and political activist. Cultural activist may be the more important of the two.

 

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Troy i can imagine a March inspired by McDonald's and Coke. Because both have supported Black History Month because it is a hood business decision. 

Did yoy see Watts Stax. Yeah in his prime Jackson could have done so.  Sharpton is a bit like Spike Lee. He is vocally pro black yet attracts the money. My Aunt had an interesting take on Sharpton. She felt he wasn't polished enough. Yet he is the only one giving a voice to the voiceless. So again I have to separate my personal feelings about the man to look at the situation using reason not personal prejudice  

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Cynique

Any black leader could've done this. Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, Julian Bond.

If Jesse or Al COULD have done it...then why DIDN'T they?

I like Al Sharpton, but I think we all know he's a bit of an opportunist.
Does anyone here REALLY believe that if Al could have pulled off an event that big he would have passed up such an opportunity?

Come on, stop being silly.....lol.

Just hating on Farrakhan for no legitimate reason what so ever.

Julian Who??????




Mel

Well, I can't disagree with you about YOUR reality.

If you don't recognize a push by conservative White women to masculinize their boys and men......
The Republican favorite cheerleader Sara Palin was a clear example of this.
.....there's little I can say to convince you.

 



Del

I'm not diminishing gay Black men.

I think homosexuality.....like violence....is a fact of nature and both have their roles.

Again, my position is that the PROMOTION of homosexuality/effeminacy among Black men is just as destructive as the PROMOTION of violence and criminality among Black men.

And again, BOTH are genocidal.....one is passive and the other active.

Promoting ganster rap encourages Black men to kill themselves.

Promoting homosexual behavior among Black men reduces the amount of Black men willing to have sex with Black women...which reduces the population.

Promoting effeminate behavior among Black men reduces the desire of Black women to have sex with Black men.....which also reduces the population.


Promoting all three will eventually lead to the same end result of reducing the Black population.

 

 

So my lack of discrimination or lower prejudices enabled me to be the only person to answer Mel's question , "Name two Black Men that have helped women? " To the satisfaction of both Mel and Cynique

Either that OR......
In a thread that started off with a noble critique but DEVOLVED into a defacto battle between the sexes.....those two women didn't even see you as part of the opposition, lol.
Perhaps instead of placing you with the male side, they subconsciouly saw you as a neutral party.

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I am on the side of bias free rationality. You are both assuming what Mel and Cynique think and instead of asking their opinion you speak on their behalf. Which is amazingly arrogant. And potentially wrong.

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You are both assuming what Mel and Cynique think and instead of asking their opinion you speak on their behalf. Which is amazingly arrogant. And potentially wrong.

I said PERHAPS.....lol.
 

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Cynique, I'm not a follower of Farrakhan, but I recognize he commands more respect than all of the Brothers you mentioned, for the reasons I've outlined.  Sure, I know who Julian Bond is, but I'm educated, 55 years old, and actively support Black people.  

Most Black high schoolers know who Farrakhan is.  None of them will know Bond, only a few will know the NAACP--both the man and the institution, I'm sad to say, are irrelevant and have been for some time.  Maybe this will change.  I hope so.  I supported the NAACP financially, off and on, over the years.  I even promoted their book awards for years with less than no support from them... It was no surprise to me one of their chapters had a white girl running it without their knowledge...

The greatest story ever told, niggas in the field
From Solomon to Sambo to Django, it's fact
I'm the Farrakhan of rap and I get it from the wheel
--Jay Z

I guess you'd need to be a Black man to better understand the difference between a Bond and a Farrakhan. It is the same strength exhibited by Malcolm X and Brothers like Huey Newton, and others.  None of these men are perfect--no man is.  But we seemingly can even agree on who are strong leaders are... 

You and I gave several reasons for the apparent lack of follow-through since the Million Man March.  I was one of those Brothers who had no interest in attending, because Marches do nothing and many of the Brothers I knew who were most excited to go were some of the most trifling Brothers around.  Still to get a million people to do anything is a tremendous accomplishment, to get that many people to do something important is sublime.  Farrakhan had that potential.  The religion is one thing that put a serious constraint on his effectiveness.  

I've attended services at their Mosque I have seen the positive impact on Brothers and Sisters, but as I said it is not for me. I've also heard Farrakhan speak live, in perhaps his prime, in the early 1980's he was the most skilled speaker I ever heard. (I would not say that today, because Farrakhan does tend to ramble as Cynique said.  In fact, his speech during the Million Man March, wasn't  so great--a missed opportunity).

Has anyone else been to a NOI service or heard Farrakhan speak live?  It is hard to judge the man if you've never heard him speak.  Sort of like dissin' Go-Go music without hearing it live.

Giving @Delano the "wachu-talkin-bout-willis" look.  Man, I know you ain't talking about me assuming what other people believe.  I'm the one asking the most questions, sometimes asking the same question 2 or 3 times.  I'm the one who crafted a survey to ask even more people what they think.

If I ever make a statement about what someone else believes it is an attempt to restate my understanding of what they said so that it is clear that I understand them.  I doubt you will ever find me making a declaration of what someone else thinks without anything to support the supposition.  

Pioneer I agree with a lot of what you say.  But the tide has turned on homosexuality, the horse is out the barn, the cat is out the bag, that ship has sailed, and you are not putting that genie back in the bottle... Just get used to it man.

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Troy you're mistaken. That was directed to Pioneer. I heard Farakan live because I  wanted to make up my own mind. Did you know he plays the violin?, Pioneer? 

 

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As far as the Million Man March, you hero worshipers do realize that the first march took place   22 years ago, so to say that nobody  knew who Julian Bond was back then is a statement that can be challenged. And 22 years ago, the NAACP still had some relevancy. Plus the fact, there was as broad cross section of a million men in the march, not just dumb, uninformed ones.   

And i beg to differ that all black kids today know who Farrahan is.   Especially since he's an 84 year-old sickly man who  keeps a low profile.Or do i think the black Muslims have a great impact on the black community any more in Chicago. . They're from another era like the Black Panthers and their hey day is over. Their 2015 million man anniversary march  was less well attended and, like the first one, just a vessel for Farrakhan's hot air. They supposedly had voter registration booths there, then their fearless leader ends up telling  his followers not to vote in the last election.  Chicago's inner city continues to be crime ridden with a high murder rates.  Jobs would help alleviate this situation but the black Muslims are invisible in this area. This doesn't bode well for their released prison converts.i remain unimpressed. Jesse Jackson and the corporate sponsors of his Operation Uplift organization have a visibly better record.  

BTW, Mel, Farrakhan also used to also be a calypso singer back in his young days when he lived in New York. 

And i have heard Farrakhan speak,plus he used to be a regular on the talk shows in Chicago back in the day when they were TV staples. 

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On 6/8/2017 at 7:34 AM, Troy said:

Del I'm talking about the most popular rappers like Little Wayne or Snoop, not the Q-Tips.  The rappers that the majority of the world know and regularly see.  I agree, rappers span the gamut and there are a great variety of them.  I was NOT indicting rappers, I was indicting the media images which depict grown men behaving as boys and the adverse stereotypes and they create and the resulting behavior the result when Black men mimic the images they see.

 

 

 

Little Wayne and Snoop are selling negativity. Although I don't know how relevant Snoop is. I mentioned the different types of Rap which one sells. That's my point.

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That's a good question, Del.  Playing the music of a white classical music  master is kind of out of character for a someone who rants about blue-eyed devils.  Just like i always thought it was kind of inconsistent that Muslims have their women wear all white, a color they apparently associate with goodness and purity - except when it comes to skin, i guess.   

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"Playing the music of a white classical music  master is kind of out of character for a someone who rants about blue-eyed devils.  Just like i always thought it was kind of inconsistent that Muslims have their women wear all white, a color they apparently associate with goodness and purity - except when it comes to skin, i guess."

Good point. I agree..... 

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@Pioneer has your opinion of Farrakan changed since he is playing the "opressors" music.

Racism in this instance ia in the mind of the beholder. 

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9 hours ago, Cynique said:

That's a good question, Del.  Playing the music of a white classical music  master is kind of out of character for a someone who rants about blue-eyed devils.  Just like i always thought it was kind of inconsistent that Muslims have their women wear all white, a color they apparently associate with goodness and purity - except when it comes to skin, i guess.   

 @Pioneer1

Looking forward to your response.

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@Del Snoop is world famous and enjoys an active career.  He is a pop culture icon.  Not speaking for Pioneer but why call Farrakhan a sell-out because he plays classic music, that seems a bit silly.  Sort of like the way we used to tease kids who spoke proper English or tried to do well in school

Farrakhan does not hate all white people I heard him say that he greatly admires Jascha Heifetz and that guy is Jewish. Y'all gotta stop listening to white people and listen to the man.  Malcolm X called white people blue-eyed devils too, but even he was speaking about their behavior--which is, and has been, quite devilish.

@Cynique I thought though you were talking about who knows Jillian Bond today.  But even 22 years ago the disparity in recognition and respect for Farrakhan over Bond among Black people, men, in particular, would have been just as great.  Jullian Bond simply could not have spearheaded the masses in the way that Farrakhan did--assuming he even had the inclination to do such a thing, which I doubt.  But this is speculation on our parts and all we can really do is disagree about it...

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Well, Farrakhan is who instilled a hate of white people into the herd mentality of his following with his inflammatory rhetoric, which is aimed at the emotions instead of the aesthetic.  Trashing the white slave masters who stole black people's identity and robbed them of  their pride was an ongoing theme of his rants. The implication of this violin solo  is that the work of white composers is the epitome of classical music  and we must appreciate and play it in order to elevate our status. A reasonable motive but  not one consistent with him being a black cheer leader.  It's almost like him dying his hair blond and putting on blue contacts to pay tribute to the paragon that is white civilization.   I think he probably wanted to show off his skills in order to inspire the admiration and validation of white people. But this sends mixed messages, because the black masses are his  audience. It's like him saying "don't do as I do, do as I say do."

As for the million man march, I think it's presumptuous of anybody to assume they know the motivation of 100,000,000 black men.  If someone had gone among the crowd gathered for this event and taken a random survey asking if Julian Bond instead of Louis Farrakhan had organized the event would they have still participated in it, i tend to think that the answer would've been "yes", because it wasn't about the messenger, it was about the message    Obviously this march was an idea whose time had come.  Give Farrakhan the credit for seizing the time, but it was black men who mobilized themselves and made the march a success albeit a hollow one, neutralized by  the long, rambling, irrelevant speech Farrakhan ended up delivering,  a performance that apparently wasn't a motivating enough send-off for these brothers returning to the circumstances they were unable to make significantly better. 

So, yes, we have to agree to disagree.  

  

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“Well, Farrakhan is who instilled a hate of white people into the herd mentality of his following with his inflammatory rhetoric, which is aimed at the emotions instead of the aesthetic.  Trashing the white slave masters who stole black people's identity and robbed them of  their pride was an ongoing theme of his rants.”

Thank you! Farrakhan is a race arsonist. His entire career is steeped in inflammatory racism and anti-Semitism. Some of you may recall years ago, he had a bout with prostate cancer and was peering death in the eyes. He was badly shaken but he did recover. Upon his recovery, he stated “he would no longer indulge in anti-Semitic rhetoric “(his words –not mine!). Well, as you know, that did not last very long.  Attempting to defend him from his racism is like defending Donald Trump from being a lair(which is an impossible task…well…unless you’re Sean Hannity or Jeffery Lord).

The only person I can think of that was more bombastic and hysterical with his seething racism against Jews and whites was Khalid Muhammad (who Farrakhan dismissed from the NOI). I recall back in the 90’s there was a weekly TV show on Sunday that featured Farrakhan’s speeches. It was nothing less than an hour of ranting railing against white people, Jews, and blacks in interracial relationships (whom he considered race traitors). I still have a few VHS recorded shows of his speeches packed away in a box in my storage facility….

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@Troy you misread me. I am not saying he's a sellout because of the concerto. It just seems a bit inconsistent with his rhetoric. Pioneer was stating that black ballet performers wantes the approval pf whites. So i have been waiting to see what he has to say. 

Snoop lost his relevance whem he was raping inKaty Perry's candy land video.

 

To me sellouts are profiting from Black misery and psychopathology. I found ot interesting how when rappers went to court they put on suits .

A lot of rappers are sellouts. Because they are putting on an unconscious coon show for suburban white kids. Cats have twitter beef. Is that keeping it real.

 

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Delano & Cynique

Yes I knew he played the violin.
I believe there's an old video of him playing on some entertainment show way back in the 40s or 50s when he was in highschool.

I also knew he was a Calypso entertainer back in the day, thanks to the influence of his West Indian mother.
They used to call him "The Charmer" and I believe "Calypso Louie" because of his skills.


But you two ask is Farrakhan a sell out or irrelevant because he plays the violin...a.k.a. "white people's" music?????

I can't believe......

This is so ridiculous I wouldn't even give it time let alone the respect of answering it.

Is THIS where the conversation's going now?
Who can ask the silliest questions???

Straight up race to the bottom.

Why not ask me is he a sell out because he wears a suit and tie.....a.k.a..."white people's clothes"!!!!

Instead of wearing suits and speaking to millions under the Lincoln Monument, maybe you two would have more respect for him if he wore a dashiki and pounded on drums on the avenue.



Del

Stop trying to twist my words or change the subject.

No one called violins or classical music (and I LOVE me some BACH) being gay or detrimental to the Black community.

You said I was diminishing gay Black men because so many of them were into BALLET.
I said I wasn't.

I said ENCOURAGING and PROMOTING homosexuality in the Black community is just as detrimental as ENCOURAGING and PROMOTING violence in the Black community.

Again, BOTH lead to a reduction in our population but in different ways.

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 @Pioneer1LOL..  You won't answer my remarks about Farrakhan because can't answer them.  You're rendered so helpless by your hero worship and emotional involvement with this slippery vacillating man whose M/O is "don't do as i do, do as i say do" that you can't come up with a coherent rebuttal.  And the date that you assign  that video to, is questionable.

Can you imagine the head of the KKK playing  jazz piano and extolling the virtues of Duke Ellington.  No, because it would be a travesty for him to be an exponent of black music.  

Engaging in rational objective behavior is inconsistent with leaders of both black and white nationalism who preach contempt for the opposite race. 

Could it be that Farrakhan is really a rabble rouser full of hot air???

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Cynique

Are you slowly slipping into insanity or something?

I'm beginning to think the ROOM you're posting from is full of HOT AIR and it's affecting your reasoning.

You're gonna sit up there and SERIOUSLY entertain this foolish backward-ass logic (conjured up by Mr. Confusion himself...lol) that since Farrakhan plays the VIOLIN....that makes his Black nationalism and all the work he's done for the Black community over the past 60 years illegitimate and part of some big game?

All of his decades of getting Black men and women off drugs and alcohol, teaching them to eat right and reversing their diabetes and high blood pressure and other ailments, helping them organize and acquire their own businesses, securing Black entertainers....including Michael Jackson, launching "stop the killing" campaigns around the nation and working with rappers to get Black people to love eachother instead of seeing eachother as enemies, going inside the prisons to help GET Black men out of jail and KEEP them out.

.....but all of that is just a big smoke screen for an Uncle Tom who really loves White folks and can't wait to put on a tie and play the fiddle for them?


Honestly Cynique......
Stop it, you're scaring me....I don't wanna see you like this.

Delano...lol....I understand....but YOU???

Maybe you should get out of that hot ass room....lol.
Get out of the house and walk around the block a few more times, look down at your toes and RE-discover yourself.

Get some fresh air.

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@Pioneer1Well,.i'm not exactly impressed with your subtefuge and ad hominem arguments. It's ludicrous that you reprimand me for not validating your beliefs.  You seem totally incapable of processing anything that deflates what YOU consider sacrosanct.  You're losing your cool because i am not impressed with the leader who you continue to extol with words and not examples. it's breaking your heart  that i and a lot of other people put Farrakhan in perspective and shatter your icon. You're the one who needs to get a grip. How ironic that you are the epitome of the cognitive dissonance that you accuse others of.  SMH

 

 

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On 6/5/2017 at 9:42 PM, Pioneer1 said:




Cynique

I give you Minister Farrakhan who's helped countless Black women rise up like rods and stand before the world like shining jewels......but you reject HIM like spoiled milk and call him all types of names.

But 2 gay Black men who help women dance and sing for White folks?

Oh you LOOOOVE them don't you.

But I'm not angry, I understand....((smile))

I understand why so many Black women promote the feminine Black man over the masculine one.

And because I understand, I know everything's gonna be alright.....((smile))

So is Farakkan playing the Violin for White Folks or Black Folks. In your mind how can you not question Farrakan playing classical violin?!?

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Cynique

You're the one who needs to get a grip. How ironic that you are the epitome of the cognitive dissonance that you accuse others of. SMH

What I find ironic is that you trash Farrakhan even though both you AND him share the same views about America...lol.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xxVNQ_Ed5I


If anything, you should be championing the man for his steadfast critique of the United States.




Del


So is Farakkan playing the Violin for White Folks or Black Folks. In your mind how can you not question Farrakan playing classical violin?!?

Because in MY mind.....a mind that works PROPERLY....a man's personal hobbies and what he does for recreation is irrelevant compared with his life's purpose and the work he does in line with it.
 

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I don't think Farrakhan hates America.  He's in a position to leave and go to Africa if he so desires.  i just think he claims to hate  Americans because this resonates with his guilible followers.
 

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I don't think Farrakhan hates America. He's in a position to leave and go to Africa if he so desires. i just think he claims to hate Americans because this resonates with his guilible followers.

Minster Farrakhan believes his mission is a Divine one.
To stay here in America and help resurrect Black people and clean them up morally so that God can save us from the inevitable doom of Western civilization.

Now whether you or I AGREE with that belief is irrelevant......THAT is the reason he doesn't leave America despite his financial abilities and multitude of social connections all over Africa.

 

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Eloquent rhetoric.  Farrakhan and i are both the same age.  He better hurry up and complete his mission before he croaks- or i do.  Doesn't look like he's made a lot of progress.  LOL  

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