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Troy

Oh My, Nicki Minaj

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unrelated side bar: @NubianFellow I like the way you link to related content on your website.  This is how the web is "supposed" to work. People come here discover your site, go there and discover another site. and so on.  Image if more of us did this....

 

Instead we are rapidly approaching a point where the Facebook is becoming the WWW. 

 

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1 hour ago, NubianFellow said:

Now imagine most of these women being solely responsible for the development of our new generations. They are raising our Black men and Black women of tomorrow. These will be the warriors responsible for leading us to a better place socially, financially and civilly.

This is where you lost me.  I snagged on what seems perfectly natural to you; that being the idea of black women being solely responsible for raising our black women and men of tomorrow.  What about black men?  Hybrid black women developing their own version of what is natural, are not nearly as much a problem as the abdication of  black men in their roles of  helping to provide for  their children and exemplifying good role models for their sons!  Black men who are seduced by the eye candy and status attached to white girlfriends and wives are  as big a problem as black women tightening their weaves.  When the "brothas"  hold up their end, then talk to me about  the role of black women.  

 

To me, Afrocentrism is an idea whose time has passed.  In America, slave descendants have created their own unique culture, much of which has been borrowed and incorporated by the dominant white culture. So whose influencing whom?   And women of all color strive for the perfect paragon of womanhood that is just as elusive among Whites and Asians and Hispanics as among Blacks. Who gets plastic surgery, who embraces strict diets, who bleaches their hair and enhances their boobs?  And i'm not convinced that black women hate themselves.  Many respire with confidence and boldness, not overly-conscious about their weight, perfectly at ease with their perms, smiling and strutting and seducing down at the club. And, yes,  many of them are wearing variations of natural styles, coiffures they spend a lot of money and time on to get what can be classified more as a trendy fad  than racial pride. In other words how black women present themselves,  is really about the individuality they've earned the right to express.

 

It's time for a new scenario relevant to the year 2017. Time to file all of the old self-hate rhetoric away because it 's not applicable  in a diverse country where everybody wants to be something more than what they are.  People of color  are a  mixed breed, and it's the men of this species who need to get on board and participate in parenting their progeny to compete in a nation that in the future will be more about class than race.  IMO.

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@Cynique I hear you. But growing up as a Black man in America, I perceive a different reality than you. This could be due to our regions. I am not sure. I have seen Black women cry at the thought of trying to remove weave from their heads. I have seen Black women's hair underneath the weave in the most terrible state that hair could be left in. This doesn't reflect self-love in my humble opinion. They obviously don't love their hair. I have known some Black women all of my life, and have NEVER seen the hair they were born with. This resonates a deep concern in my humble opinion.  I have seen Black women take pictures of themselves wearing ridiculously long (white textured) hair and post the pictures on facebook and brag about whether or not they should cut their hair.

 

I don't make excuses for Black people. I love my people and excuses do not solve the root of any of our problems. It only hinders our understanding and therapy of the issues that we faced as an oppressed people.

 

Which leads me to your other point. You said and I quote: "What about Black men?" I say the same thing. What about them? It's apparent that too many of our children are growing up without fathers in their lives. Let me explain how part of this problem is a direct result of our Black women's self-hate. When they choose these deadbeats, do you think they were choosing fathers? Do you believe that they are going around looking for woke Black men to raise their awareness to a higher conscious state? Why do so many Black women end up with deadbeats? Is it because there are NO good Black men left? Already, the fruit of our problems becomes the lack of Black women being able to effectively select empowered Black men.

 

Fact: Most of the Black men who turn out to be deadbeats were raised by Black women. Most of these men had no positive Black men in their lives. Surely, the Black woman is capable of raising Black men, but to face this burden alone has negatively impacted Black culture. I can randomly choose a street to walk down in my city, and see Black women emasculating their Black boys like it's in style. The mere fact that these women become the father and mother figure will be detrimental to our children every single time. It sends confusing messages to our youth. Not all of them because every human being is wired different and every circumstance is unique. But for the most part, we witness the negative impact this has. This impact affects gang affiliation, school grades, behavior, language, sexual activity and in some cases sexual preferences. 

 

Throwing weaves in the trash can isn't going to stop all of our problems alone. However, it is a step in the right direction.

 

What we know for certain is that a large number of our Black men are being raised by Black women and have no father figure present. This is VERY destructive. What we see now socially, is proof of the destruction. And what about these Black men who were raised by single Black mothers? Why have so many rejected our Black queens and refuse to date Black women? Could it be that they were emasculated by their own mothers, who was the first Black woman that they loved? The first Black woman that they trusted? The first Black woman who they witnessed try her best to emulate and copy white people - which ironically, Black women have made their own standard of beauty?

 

Now to address how you feel about Afrocentrism. You believe it's dead and has passed. What I believe is that when it truly dies and passes, then so will we! Also, you clearly identify white people as having a dominant culture. Big mistake!

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Well, i don't think how black women wear their hair is at the core of black problems.  In America the black race is pretty much screwed because the self-destructive, dead-end,  innercity lifestyle perpetuates itself and is a detriment to the entire race.  But black people as individuals can thrive by learning to circumvent racism and by emulating what white people do to achieve a modicum of success.  Those who have done this comprise the black middle class who, if we are to believe Mel Hopkins, another poster here, are a segment in society who are doing fairly well for themselves, wearing their hair extensions and designer clothes  driving their fine cars, and living in nice homes.   

 

What you envision would require African-Americans to relocate in a new territory and go back to square one, a starting point where slavery would not be a factor and where black pride would be nurtured.  And that is not necessarily an impossible dream, i guess.   

 

White Americans may not be in the majority, but their culture is the dominate one here.     

 

   

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When I was a kid, you NEVER heard Black women refering to eachother as "bitch" or "that's my bitch".

I grew up in a Black neighborhood in a Black city and I'm telling you I NEVER heard them use that term in any type of endearment.

It was always a term of insult that no one (including another Black woman) would call a Black woman unless they were looking for a shoe upside the head.

Then I started hearing it from a few Black female celebrities in the early 2000s.
I forgot whether this was in a movie or during a stand-up comedy routine but I know it was some semi-famous Black entertainers who started using it to refer to their friends and I KNEW right then and there it was going to "catch on" and be a term embraced.

For too long racist Whites have been able to.....through entertainment....easily manipulate Black youth into doing and saying almost anything they want because too many of our young people aren't smart enough to realize they're being influenced or made fools out of.

Just like many young Black male rappers today.....like Kodak Black and Lil Wayne...are being used to encourage young Black males to look and act like clowns and embrass themselves.

Women like Nicki Minaj and Beyonce are being used to promote self hatred in the Black community.
They're basically telling Black women that if you want to be seen as beautiful, attractive, and want the men to chase you around then you need to lighten your skin and dye your hear blonde.

Getting up in our people's faces and arguing with them about this is too often just a waste of time because many of our people don't have the intelligence to understand...comprehend....what's being done to them.
Quite frankly, they're too STUPID to recognize they're being manipulated.

The best solution is for like minded Black people to organize themselves and start developing their OWN media networks and entertainment venues where we can begin to promote OUR OWN versions of beauty and attractiveness among our people in it's natural forms.

It's going to be hard to take a 50 year old man who grows up seeing long flowing wavy hair as beautiful to accept the kinky hair of a sister who's gone natural.

But if we get our people as children and start them off as babies accepting kinky natural hair as attractive.....that will be the key to reversing the hypnosis.

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@Pioneer1 You nailed it brother and that makes a lot of sense to me. Our people are too indoctrinated and because I don't know everyone's religious beliefs, I will stay away from religion for now. But I agree, under this current system of white supremacy, we are being slowly destroyed - which in a way, is worst than being destroyed quickly where we could at least realize what's happening and fight back. You also make an impressive observation about the iq of a majority of our people which we should stop failing at addressing. the key is understanding and most of our people have no clue of what is being done and how, especially are precious misguided youth.

 

Also, those of us that do, follow the b.s. for the sake of fitting in with our backward social structure.  The result is chaos in the Black community. And if we god forbid, criticize Black people for any reason, then the word coon gets used all too comfortably. So what have we got? A group of people who won't even take criticism from each other for the sake of trying to get it right. One day we will even have the Bloods and Crypts yelling racism because the media won't focus on all the good that they do for the Black community! That's when they are not out killing single brothers or killing their children! Mine as well give the most destructive people in our communities record deals and indoctrinate our children with more b.s. And never scold Black women about their weaves because they could still love themselves. At least until we learn that a Black woman was captured on a viral YouTube video in which she is seen cutting the tail off of a horses ass so she can wear it on her head. The really sad reality is that these things have happened already and it's getting worst and worst.

 

@CyniqueI am not against Black American people acquiring land in Africa at all! I think that will be required eventually anyway. Now we must remember. African Americans tried building our own nation in Liberia. I believe they are still fighting the same war that the US government began during the inception of the country. It was never supposed to be a success. I've recently read that many of the citizens have turned into cannibals. So we better make sure we get our priorities set straight this time and plan it right! But even still queen... I love that idea!

 

 

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@Delano

The answer to that question would be self-love brother. Underneath the surface, that is the cure for 90 percent of our problems as a people. Black parents start loving their children so much that they sit home with them and help with homework. Black parents start having empowering discussions with their children and start observing their social behavior. Be so in tune with that child that they can read their mind. If a million Black parents were able to show this type of love for their children, everything would change. Young girls would understand the importance of wearing their natural hair and their parents wouldn't force them to cover up their natural hair.

 

Think about it brother... if a people truly love themselves, would they resort to doing everything they can to look like someone else who is arguably the complete opposite of themselves? And I don't think religion helps to empower Black people. The first time I thought of the most powerful man on the planet and in the history of time itself, I thought of a picture of a white Jesus I saw in my children's bible and at church, television, and basically anywhere. I knew that something wasn't right. It's time we do the responsible thing and tell Jesus - adios!

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@NubianFellow I agree with you about Jesus.  But I still think black women should feel free to wear their hair anyway they want to.  Hair is just one aspect of the whole person.  If a sista is accomplished and responsible and intelligent and capable of earning a good living,  who gives a fuck how she wears her hair?  Nobody's perfect.  You just can't throw that  catch-all term "self hate" around and apply to everyone who doesn't conform to your criteria.  Self love is also about taking care of yourself, about pampering and indulging your needs, about  - avoiding jive-assed black men.  When taken to the extreme, self love can also be about  conceit and vanity and even narcissism.  

 

Having said,  all of that i would like to compliment you on your writing skills.   They are excellent.  :D

 

 

  

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@Cynique Thank you for the compliment queen. I do hear what you are saying, which may even be true to a degree. However, consider that a Black queen feels like she is a perfect vision of beauty, after getting a weave. She has the most elegant blonde European weave her money could afford. Now the conflict of interests. She knows her beauty is borrowed. Because she will never be able to grow this hair. Not in a million years. So her new achieved beauty is not from her. That would mess with my brain. I would feel like I was only pretending to be beautiful if that was how I envisioned beauty.

 

But what is wrong with Black hair? Black, African textured hair is one hundred percent human hair. It doesn't look like a horses hair or a monkey's hair. So I see women becoming less beautiful than their full potential, due to media control (They are actually making themselves less attractive). But I already notice something unattractive, which is weak thinking. When we love ourselves, we don't try to change into something we are not. I used to question my own African features as a child and want to change all the things I thought were wrong with me (less caucasian appealing). Luckily I learned to love these very things about me I assumed were flaws, and once I did that, I felt as if I was emancipated from my own thinking. This is what I wish for my Black queens.

 

On the surface, it seems like a small thing that doesn't matter at all. But the truth is much grimmer. This is not a small issue at all. This affects the souls of our queens out there. And I believe, that once this minor issue is corrected, it will greatly impact our entire race, everywhere! 

 

Growing up with a half white best friend, I noticed mixed privilege. And I didn't notice it from white people. I noticed it among my own people. We give so much praise and love to people who look the least like us. Then we wonder why people who look almost identical to us feel that they are more superior, better looking, smarter and more capable than us. For instance, the Indians, Arabs, Dominicans, etc. But socially, this is what we empower. And that behavior must change for us to move forward as a people. The issue is a lot bigger than simply creating a multi billion dollar weave industry that some women will actually get their hair done before they pay their own rent! That's how important this nasty weave is to them. It's disgusting queen.

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Well there it is, the "multi billion dollar weave industry." As long as there is a financial incentive for getting women to change the state of the natural hair, there will be market pressures to get them to do it.  Obviously those of us that change their hair from it's natural state will find ways to justify doing it.

 

I'm not convinced this is as much of an issue of Black self hate, as much as it is one of marketing.

 

People can easily justify spending spending money to watch men engage in human cock fighting.  Justifying buying a straight-haired-blonde weave is does not seem to be such a heavy lift in comparison.

 

Black women are not the only ones buying straight blonde hair, white women do it too.  White women go to the beauty salon get the texture of the hair changed, get the color of their hair changed, but don't have to contend with the same level of grief our Sisters have to.  But white women don't have to contend with a lot of things Black women have to...

 

Clever marketers have exploited a weakness in our psyches and created an environment such that many women feel they can be made more attractive by changing the natural state of their hair.  This is not a function of "race," it is a function of commerce.  Of course the Brothers buy into this and go after the sisters with the long straight hair and white boys flock to the girlies with the long blonde hair. Very few of us, raised in this culture, are immune to this.  I like to think that I am, but I know I'm not, not really.  

 

That said, I think many Black women spend an inordinate amount of time and money on their hair.  I know sisters that spend hundreds of dollars each month doing something to their hair that has nothing to do with the health or well being of their hair. In fact what they are doing may actually be detrimental to their hair in the long term.  

 

But it is a waste of time trying to convince a woman that going to the "beauty" parlor for 2 or 3 hours a week is unnecessary, because you are competing against the full weight of brilliant corporate marketers who have convinced women otherwise.

 

Of course there is no shortage of products targeted to make men feel inadequate if they don't have a head full thick hair.  I'm glad I'm not one their marks.  The stigma of Black men being bald has largely waned. I buy about 50 bucks worth a razor blades a year and shave my head once or twice a week, which takes about 10 minutes. The results present well, are easy on the pocket, and take very little time.  

 

Too bad more Black women don't feel they have that luxury.

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I have generally spent more time on my mind than my hair. Hey if geeks and nerds make enough money they may influence black cultural norms. Would that be of use to the community.

 

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@Troy I agree with you that these marketing companies are clever. I would argue that there is little that Black men can do about this problem. If we become less responsive to women who wear weave, the women will change and the industry will be forced to change how they market to us. If this ever does change, the boom will shift to natural hair care products, which I am sure will be controlled by the same financial entities who supply the current demand. But truthfully, we spend too much money on things that don't really matter or hold any significant weight. For instance, when I was growing up in an urban area around other poor Black kids, I noticed a terrible flaw. Those kids would want to engage in conversation that would go on for hours about the types of fashion they liked and wanted as well as what their parents were willing to buy them. Ironically, these kids in my neighborhood wore some of the most expensive clothing I have seen people wear at that time. And I am very confident in saying that this was pretty much a ghetto. Not the worst, but a ghetto. 

 

I think it's the thinking that needs to change. Not just the women, but Black people in general. Too much emphasis is placed on being slaves and not enough emphasis is placed on being kings and queens; gods and goddesses.

 

@Delano That's good brother. Most Black people with money don't necessarily use their money to empower Black people. In fact, the popular argument I hear in their defense is "why should they have to? They made the money themselves and they should spend it themselves. We should be happy enough with the symbol that we can do the same thing. Let them feed their families and be happy for them. Don't hate." I'm not saying that I agree with this philosophy by any stretch of the imagination, but just to point out the low standards we have for our people and ourselves.

 

The closest thing Black people have ever had to a Jesus was Barack Obama. Arguably, the most powerful man on the planet for a full 8 years. During this time period, Black people were satisfied with the fact that we appeared to have a Black president. Most cleverly, he created arguments against his opposition that they would not help him. Intellectually, he knew that there was no possibility that they wanted to cooperate with him, but he sold the idea to us that it was their fault because they wouldn't work with him. He made it seem as though certain things were beyond his power, which they were not. His opposition made that clear, laughing about it on a radio show. Obama had no intentions of creating any change that would directly impact Black people. In his defense, I would argue that Black people gave him that platform. It's the symbol that they loved, not what could be gained by having Obama as a president. Even more ironic, Obama will go down in Black history books as a Martin Luther King of our time.  "No scandals."

 

Black people didn't mind that everyone benefited from Barack's presidency except for Black people. In fact, police have never been more powerful and white supremacy has never been more visible. I don't think nerds with money are the key. I think the solution is to make sure that we have more nerds who care about Black people. They will be the key. If we ever manage to properly organize ourselves in a way that combats our systematic oppression, there will be progress brother!

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@NubianFellow  There is a argument to be made about how materialism and superficiality  a/k/a  "bling"   are too much of a priority among blacks, especially those in the ghetto where not enough emphasis is placed on education, family values and - birth control.   

 

Similarly, you are fixated on black womens' hair, attributing to them  sentiments that you have decided  is at the root (pun intended) of their motivation.  That's being presumptuous.   And where is it written that people have to like everything about themselves?  If they do what they think will improve their appearance or enhance their attractiveness, then this is a form of self love because it makes them feel better about themselves whether this is admirable or not.  It is, what it is in the real world.   

 

I am neither an Obama lover nor hater.  i do take into consideration how handcuffed he was by the Republican Congress dedicated to blocking his every move, determined to make his presidency a failure.  But my girl, Mel, has previously given a very good accounting of the important things that Obama accomplished during his term in office - as a president who was black, not a black who was president.( I liked his Supreme court appointments.)   i'm waiting for her to chime in because i would be very interested in her take on your opinions.

 

All my life i've been hearing the phrase, "what black folks need to do is...".    Now,  i'm just hoping i can live another year so i can see how "Game of Thrones" ends up.  I've given up on seeing the black race become a viable player in America's game.  But, then, i never thought that an incompetent racist enabler like Donald Trump could become president. So keep hope alive.  I just want to see what will happen between Dany and Jon when they find out they're aunt and nephew! :o

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since Slavery there have been Black people that have done well and most have not. But they same can be said of white people. Maybe that is just the system. However if Black dollars circulated in the community. Hair choices would be relegated to the minor issue that it is? Although theCJ Walker may not agree with this. Actually neither do I. As a kid the barber and beauty shop was a salon of the hair and the mind. The topics I remember were in the barbershop was local gossip, sports and politics.

 

The simplest and most effective solution is to build on what you have . The only thing we need is to change our mindset .

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On 8/28/2017 at 6:40 PM, Cynique said:

 Those who have done this comprise the black middle class who, if we are to believe Mel Hopkins, another poster here, are a segment in society who are doing fairly well for themselves, wearing their hair extensions and designer clothes  driving their fine cars, and living in nice homes.

 

@Cynique who knows maybe Nubianfellow has it point.  

Maybe it's the black woman's hair that is the key to black people's  success..

My friends call my family the hair bear bunch because we have very long hair that grows from our roots... (see my profile pic - yep that's mine)

So, maybe because we don't have weaves it allows us to communicate with directly to the Universe from which all our blessings flow  you know god gave it to us  for a reason. ...And it makes us super smart so we don't have ever worry about being in the bottom 20% of those poverty-stricken folks.   

We don't need weaves, because we love showing off our beautiful locks,  because, well who doesn't love our hair.  By the way loving your hair, automatically translates into us loving ourselves because hair is the major key..  

And, of course we attract men who are not deadbeat dads.  Because of our flowing Rapunzel-like locks we attract the men who have the most money, best character and family adhesiveness ...  As for the men who feel it's ok to lie down create babies and flee the scene.  Well, we all know they got that way because of some weave-wearing black woman  - who didn't cheer them on when they  did something  you know, mediocre....  

I just can't.  :D

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Nubian

 

You nailed it brother and that makes a lot of sense to me. Our people are too indoctrinated and because I don't know everyone's religious beliefs, I will stay away from religion for now. But I agree, under this current system of white supremacy, we are being slowly destroyed - which in a way, is worst than being destroyed quickly where we could at least realize what's happening and fight back. You also make an impressive observation about the iq of a majority of our people which we should stop failing at addressing. the key is understanding and most of our people have no clue of what is being done and how, especially are precious misguided youth


Well my religion is TRUTH brother.

I believe in and worship The Supreme Being and I believe in truth/facts/logic/what makes sense to me based on experience and observations.

 

But if the BIGGEST religion on this planet....which is White Supremacy....were to be destroyed TOO quickly, it would take MOST of our people with it.
Gotta give them enough time to get their minds right and GET OUT (like that movie) before that sinking ship takes everyone down with it.

Besides......
They say nature hates a void.
Perhaps White supremacy is taking so long to fall and die because we as Black people haven't developed an adequate system to REPLACE it with yet.

For example:
We KNOW it's not good for Black women to be running around with straighted blonde wigs and weaves, but we haven't found a way to make the natural nappy hair of most of our women look attractive to most of us....yet.
Or we know our people shouldn't sell dope or work for White people who exploit them without adequate compensation.....but we don't have enough good paying jobs to offer them instead.....yet.


But more to your point.
Many don't know, but even among those smart enough to know what's happening....many don't care.

Being raised in  Western society they are too individualistic and selfish to worry about what OTHER Black people are going through.  Meaning, if they "got there's" they could care less what type of hell their brother or sister who is less fortunate may be catching and aren't the least bit interested in helping them.

But even these type of people can be useful to our community because you can tap into their greed and selfishness and promise them incentives for their cooperation and favors.

The Uncle Tom on the school board you've been trying to convince to vote for more Afrocentric schools may not give a damn about the Black community....but he LOVES coochie and if you send a fine sista his way......that MIGHT change his mind and influence his vote, lol.

 

This is why I focus so much on the TRUTH.
Because when the truth is told and everyone is honest about there desires and intentions, we can rally around the desires we all have in common and even those who DON'T share the same desires can be used to further certain goals by tapping into their personal desires and finding a way to fulfill them in exchange for that which may be valuable to us.




We give so much praise and love to people who look the least like us.


I suspect THIS is one of the major reasons Colin Kaepernick is getting so much attention and support from the Black community while others who may have done or are doing the same thing haven't.

But I'll leave that one alone......lol.

 

 

 



Cynique

 

If a sista is accomplished and responsible and intelligent and capable of earning a good living, who gives a fuck how she wears her hair? Nobody's perfect. You just can't throw that catch-all term "self hate" around and apply to everyone who doesn't conform to your criteria.

 

In an ideal world she DOES have the right to wear her hair anyway she wants.
But we aren't living in an "ideal world"......we're living in a society that is built and operates on a system called White supremacy which is HARMFUL to our people.

Because of this, everything that supports and maintains White supremacy much be examined, challenged, and eliminated as much as reasonably possible.

She can work for a White company and make money to support herself and be successful at it.
That too is supporting White suprmacy....but it's understandable because she has few other choices at this point.

But to go ahead lighten her skin, straighten her hair, and dye it BLONDE.....that's not necessary.
That's a choice above and beyond her being successful and a choice she's making to PROMOTE the White supremist idea that White is more beautiful and thus perpetuate the ideaology of White supremacy.

And to make matters worse......
Is she has daughters, she's sending messages to THEM that success and blonde straight hair goes hand in hand.

 

This is why she should be condemned for dying her hair blonde.
 

 

 

Troy

 

Black women are not the only ones buying straight blonde hair, white women do it too. White women go to the beauty salon get the texture of the hair changed, get the color of their hair changed, but don't have to contend with the same level of grief our Sisters have to. But white women don't have to contend with a lot of things Black women have to...

 

But the difference is White women dye their hair or even perm their hair generally to LOOK MORE WHITE or atleast look like another aspect of their own race.

In other words.....
Except for the Rachel Dolezal character.....rarely do you see White women trying to make themselves Black.
They may get tans or what not.....but they aren't trying to actually look like someone of another race.

When a Black woman uses skin bleacher and dyes her hair blonde....a color totally unnatural to most people of African descent.....that sends a clear message to the world about how she feels about HERSELF.

 

 

 

 


Mel

 

Maybe it's the black woman's hair that is the key to black people's success..

And it makes us super smart so we don't have ever worry about being in the bottom 20% of those poverty-stricken folks.


Well you shouldn't be worried about that anyway, because according to you and The Atlantic:


"The majority (73%) of black people in the innercities of America and the majority (80%) of black people in the suburbs are living above the poverty line. "

Remember?

https://aalbc.com/tc/topic/4625-naacp-says-avoid-missouri/?page=2


So not only are the majority of Black people doing just great.....

Black women out number Black men, so ofcourse the majority OF the majority of these people doing so good HAS TO BE Black women....lol.
 

 

But I DO think a major key to Black women's success IS their hair.
So many Black females have gotten rich just opening up their own shop and becoming stylists.
Madame CJ Walker became the worlds richest woman dealing with the Black woman's hair.

I mean.....
She made her money showing Black women how to make their hair straight.....but still...I ain't mad at her, lol.

I'm not going to sit here and say I wouldn't have done the same thing if I were in her shoes and had the idea and opportunity.

The next step in my opinion would be for Black people to start MAKING and DISTRIBUTING our own beauty products instead of Whites making them and Asians (mostly Koreans) distributing them to us.

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Pioneer, come on Brother, how many Black women do you see dyeing their hair blonde and bleaching the skin so that they can look like a phenotypical white woman (other than Michael Jackson ;)).

 

Women of all so called races change their hair from it's natural state for a myriad of reasons. I think you may be overstating the self-hate cause particularly in the case of Black women.  When I was in Kenya I visited a Maasai community the women shaved their heads and the male warriors did all kinds of ornate things to their hair.  I think those people loved themselves and their culture despite changing their hair from it's natural state.

 

Rachel Dozal is a completely different matter, but you know you would have accepted as a Black Light skinned Black woman (of the high yella, red-bone variety) just like everyone else.

 

Some Black women have naturally straight hair (you know that "good hair").  I bet you'd assume they are trying to be a reverse Rachel Dozal huh?

 

It is interesting to ponder if Colin K came from a poor, background and was darked skinned would the reaction to that Brother have been the same?  We can't know, but it is interesting to ponder.  Somehow I think that brother's shenanigans would have been nipped in the bud.

 

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Rise up, black women of America!   You have your work cut out for you.  Let your hair bloom in its natural state and  await a miracle.  You might also want to stop shaving your pubic and under arm hair.    "Get out that funk!"  

 

BTW, Madam C. J. Walker was the richest black woman in America, amassing a fortune  which in today's economy would be equivalent to a million dollars.   

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15 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

The next step in my opinion would be for Black people to start MAKING and DISTRIBUTING our own beauty products instead of Whites making them and Asians (mostly Koreans) distributing them to us.


@Pioneer1  do you ever use a search engine before you come up with your "next step" ideas?  It doesn't even have to be google... use Troy's Huriasearch  


I only use black hair care products made by black women.   It's not even hard to find anymore.  If you don't buy direct you can find them on the store shelves.  One website list at least 55 black-owned hair and beauty product companies ..A lot of them are founded and run by black women.   Anyway, don't just stop at Madam CJ walker there was  also Sarah Spencer Washington and her Apex Systems  

 

https://www.sswmovie.com/


 

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Black women have always been creative  when it came to their hair and many, as Mel has noted, parlayed this creativity into profitably businesses dating way back.  I'm not sure whether a black woman invented the all-but-obsolete curling iron that being adept at  manipulating  required a trained skill which produced the perfect results,  an artistry  more to be admired  than condemned.   I truly believe that what black women traditionally did to their hair was always about making it manageable and easier to style in different ways.  Women that they were, they liked glamour which is why they would also paint their nails and wear lipstick and rouge.  I'm not here to defend weaves because they are an extreme.   But from what i gather, extensions are slightly different from weaves, and are easily added and removed and, of course, perms are a process not an add-on.  Braids involve  synthetic extensions that take hours to plait and are not so easily taken out. So they're kind of a faux display of black pride. 

 

For years, i tinted my mousy brown hair with with a Miss Clairol  selection labeled "golden brown".  So shoot me.  But i loved how this color complemented my skin tone.  All during the 1970s, like everyone else, i wore my hair in a  big (golden brown) natural. I didn't sweat whether or not this sent a mixed message, because i used words to make a statement about racial discrimination, and i wrote about this injustice in the print media on a regular basis.  To me, the press was mightier than the tress.

 


 

 

afro Connie.png

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This was a fluff piece, to get my foot in the door.  Later my submissions were much more militant, so much so that the newspaper was flooded with complaints from whites, something  the op-ed editor loved, assuring me that they wanted to provoke reader response.   I also got a lot of hate mail  that scorched my ears...      

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18 minutes ago, Cynique said:

This was a fluff piece, to get my foot in the door.  Later my submissions were much more militant, so much so that the newspaper was flooded with complaints from whites, something  the op-ed editor loved, assuring me that they wanted to provoke reader response.   I also got a lot of hate mail  that scorched my ears...      


It worked; didn't it! You can write your tail-feathers off! whew!

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Troy
 

Pioneer, come on Brother, how many Black women do you see dyeing their hair blonde and bleaching the skin so that they can look like a phenotypical white woman


Well first of all I'm not saying ALL or even MOST Black women are lightening their skin.
It's a problem, but not the most immediate problem.
But I certainly believe that MOST Black women are altering the structure of their hair to make it less African and more European by straightening it, relaxing it, and often times dyeing it colors lighter than it's natural color.

They may not CONSCIOUSLY believe they're trying to look like a White woman.
They may tell themselves that they're simply "beautifying" themselves or fixing themselves up to look better......but "looking better" to them really means lightening their skin and straightening their hair.
And we all know that these features ultimately go back to trying to look White.

I often liken this to a Black man who bashes interracial dating and swears up and down that he'll never sleep with a White woman BUT he exclusively dates light skinned women...lol.
He'll argue left and right that he doesn't find White women attractive, but he's constantly chasing after "Black" women who LOOK White.....lol.



 

Some Black women have naturally straight hair (you know that "good hair"). I bet you'd assume they are trying to be a reverse Rachel Dozal huh?


If it's naturally straight...no.

Don't forget that during our discussion on race I said that there were 2 Black races....African and Dravidian (East Indian).
So I know there are millions upon millions of unmixed Black people with bone straight hair, even in Africa.

 

 



 

Cynique

Except for the hair, you don't look a hell of a lot different today than you did in that picture....lol.

And I see you even had that SAME sneaky/deceptive grin on your face back then as you do today.....lol.





Mel

Actually I didn't do a search and I didn't know about these stores......thank you.

I think this is a good start, but it's still not nearly enough.

Again, where are the FACTORIES where we're making our or products and tools?

Where are the Black scientists and dermatologists who are developing products that work best for our skin and hair.

It's going to take more than a few mom and pop corner stores or a sister whipping up batches of relaxer in a mixing bowl in her kitchen to really put a dent in the market.

We need to corner the entire INDUSTRY with factories, distribution centers, and store chains.

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Hmmmm.... I missed (or forgot) about that bit about "2 Black Races" from our previous conversation.  The is a confounding and befuddling statement.  It is not supported by science and is actually something I never hear, even in colloquial use (until now).  So there are 2 Black races which are distinguished by the straightness of their hair...wow. 

 

Why not three or four black races, We can put the light skinned one in one bucket, the straight haired ones in another, the thin lipped narrow nose ones in another, the flat butt ones in one, and the light eyes one in yet another bucket.  Of course there will be some overlap; since some Black people have thin lips, narrow noses, light eyes, straight hair, flat butts, light skin, humm maybe they are yet another race of Black people... or maybe they are just white?

 

I wish we could dispense with the word "race," or at least our current concept its meaning, as it makes no freaking sense and only serves as a tool used by the rich and powerful to divide the rest of us against each other.

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Troy


the flat butt ones in one


I've already placed women with "flat butts" in a category of their own.....lol.
I started doing that back in highschool.

 


it makes no freaking sense and only serves as a tool used by the rich and powerful to divide the rest of us against each other.


The only problem is, most of those "rich and powerful" just happen to be White Europeans....lol.

Even if we stopped using the worl "race", trust me....White people would STILL know who they were and also know who YOU were.
And their behavior toward you would still be the same because of certain inherent differences between us and them.

For one thing....
They think differently and see the world differently than most of us.....INHERENTLY.

White people went around the planet colonizing people based on the belief that THEY were a superior race to the Africans, Asians, and Native Americans.....who didn't see themselves in racial terms at all.

The denial or ignorance of the concept of "race" didn't save Africans, Asians, or Native Americans from being colonized, enslaved, exploited, and even slaughtered.

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Pioneer the differences you are attributing to race are a function of culture or evil.  

 

White people marched across Europe during the crusades killing other white people, directed by the leadership of the Catholic Church.  Shoot, white folks killed 600,000 of each other here in the United States, duped into believing they were fighting for states rights when in fact the were fighting for rich people.

 

Evil people think very differently than kind people.  Middle class educated Black people in Harlem think differently than poor uneducated people in Harlem.  Black people whose families have been wealthy for a few generations have more in common with rich white people than you or I have with each other.

 

This makes sense if you understand there is only one race.

 

Now that does not mean that people, like you, who attribute meaning to race, that has no foundation in reality.  I also understand that people who subscribe to these "Inherent" racial difference and go so far as to believe Black people are an inferior "race" can create serious problems for me and other Black people.  Indeed it is one of the reason I fun this website.

 

It is people misunderstanding of race that is problematic.  Maybe if people really understood that there is only one race they would also understand how silly their beliefs are.  White people are not inherently evil, Black people are not inherently less intelligent, Jews are not inherently stingy, Black women are not inherently good in bed, Asians are not inherently good at math... right?

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On 8/31/2017 at 8:13 PM, Pioneer1 said:

And I see you even had that SAME sneaky/deceptive grin on your face back then as you do today.....

Sneaky and deceptive?  Have i ever deceived you?  Or been anything but aggressive in my arguments with you?  :o  As usual, you view is skewed. :wacko:

 

 

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Are you sure those stereotypes aren't true. Maybe its true sometimes but for non race related reasons. I am sure you both can think of situations. 

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Yes Del that is my point because these stereotypes ( and they are indeed stereotypes) are true sometimes, does not make them true all the time.  But again the reasoning is nonsensical because there is only one race.

 

The differences we use to describe people are purely subjective. Someone who is white to one person is Black to another depending upon the time and the place,  How you self describe is irrelevant to the way those around you define you.

 

There is no objective or scientific way to describe ones race.  If pressed I was say everyone is Black.

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12 hours ago, Troy said:

There is no objective or scientific way to describe ones race.  If pressed I was say everyone is Black.

Is height subjective?  Is eye color subjective.  is hair texture subjective?  Is noticing that these features which characterize your group are different from the features which characterize another group a subjective observation?

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The problem with race unlike plant animal and mineral classifications is that you can have mixtures s across race. Although yiu can do this with plant grafting. I am not certain about the limitations. 

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Cynique height is not subjective, eye color may be depending on your vocabulary, hair texture is subjective for the same reasons eye color is. People can group other people into different groups to their heart's content.  You just can't group them into difference "races" because their is only ONE RACE.

 

Del you can mix some races; Neanderthals and Sapiens mixed.  I understand Europeans to this day have some percentage of their genome which can be tracked directly to the Neanderthal man.

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Troy
 

Pioneer the differences you are attributing to race are a function of culture or evil.
 

This is true.
But as we discussed months ago in another thread, CULTURE is heavily influenced by GENETICS (race).

The genetic traits of a group of people (as in a race) heavily influence their cultural practices.

For example...............

What makes up a culture?

Food, language, marriage customs, dress.....

Take marriage:

Black men tend to have a high testosterone rate than White men, so if you look at Black cultures we have MULTIPLE WIVES and having a high sex drive even as an old man is valued, where as in European cultures MONOGAMY is the norm and celibacy is valued.

Take food:

Black and Latino and Asian people have been scientifically proven to have more "super tasters"......or have more active taste buds.....than White people.
And because of having more taste buds and desiring more flavors, Black and Asian cuisines tend to use more spices and colors in their foods.

And the same can be said about language, dress, and other aspect of culture.
Race or genetic traits of the majority of the people heavily influence the culture.

 

 


Cynique

Sneaky and deceptive? Yes....that's right.  Have i ever deceived you? You tried  Or been anything but aggressive in my arguments with you? Rarely ...lol.

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