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NAACP Says, Avoid Missouri.


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14 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Now some people believe EVERYONE is born with some sort of gift or talent.
I don't know that this is true.
I've dealt with enough people who...although they weren't retarded or deformed....didn't seem to display any sort of extraordinary talent or intelligence in ANYTHING.

And these type of people were the majority of the people I've met


@Pioneer1 

Yes, I believe EVERYONE is born with strengths and talents. Mine is being able to recognize those strengths and talents in others.   

 We all have our reasons why we seek out the people we find in life. Maybe you seek out people who are lost to help them.  Or maybe you seek out "average" people to exploit their vulnerabilities.  
 
We all operate on a wavelength that keeps us comfortable and allows us to achieve our internal and external goals.  


So If I am out of touch, it's a place I choose to be- because I will never seek mediocrity. 


It's my intention to look up to people. My comfort zone IS intellectual discomfort.   I don't ever want to be the smartest one in the room (or in this case on the discussion board.) I seek out people who share wisdom. 


The definition of wisdom is "knowledge into action".  

 

Aside:  Here, I learn so much from @Cynique  Her words, wisdom and life story are proof positive that black women can rise above any barrier set for us in any era.  I hang on every word that she writes because her eloquence in relating her experience is a treasure...

You may not know this but it's not  @Troy 's academic degrees that make him wise...(whether he exercises it daily -<snark>) - he has complete mind-body control ... Ask Troy about his days as a champion gymnast and swimmer.     Whatever Troy puts his mind to he accomplishes... He could actually write the book on "how to operate your earth suit".

 @Del 's  world (and multi-dimensional) view is enough for me to run to the board whenever I see his name pop up.   I want to know what he is revealed because I'm sure it will trigger my Aether experience.   I can then be reminded that the reality of this world isn't all there is to life.  @richardmurray Doesn't comment much on the discussion boards but if you read his works and his profile comments you'll immediately see he exercises his creativity without wondering if it's appreciated.  (by the way, yes it is. I marvel out your Je ne sais quoi - you remind me of a world traveler)  @harry brown always seems to put into prose  highlights of current events that antagonize the black community. I may not like it but I'm challenged by it.  And even @Xeon and you Pioneer have the courage to speak  the conviction of beliefs without trepidation on this board. Not sure of your waking life since you both hide under the cloak of anonymity here.  Still speaking your beliefs is a virtue.   

 


But I digress.

As you have indicated, since you look for people to prove your point you will find them 

As long as I look for people to prove my point I will meet them and  I do.    I don't look for people so I can say "people are average"... I look for people using all their strengths to achieve - so I can move forward with the confidence that anything is possible with this life.    I no longer need to see it, though, it's a firmly entrenched belief.   

The beauty of my life is I've passed on my ability to seek greatness in self and others to  my daughters and other young people I have had a chance to mentor.   Therefore, I've created a new group of people who seek to find the best in others and in themselves.  

So, enjoy the world you create while continuing to seek cheer-leading black women and sexual support for black men who choose to wallow in mediocrity.   

I'll continue to be out of touch and inspire (from the latin word inspirare which means to breathe life intoall the young people I come in contact looking for the best out of life. 

By the way, my youngest daughter asked her 20-something-year-old-entrepreneurial-no-degree-having-job-creating--six-figure-earning-ready-to-franchise-car repair shops-nationally-friend, if he needed the support of black women (or any woman) to do his thing .  He said that's not needed, only the support of the woman he's in a relationship with...and even that's not required.  

He did say what would make black men great is the support and mentoring of OTHER BLACK MEN.

Out of the mouths of babes... Thank goodness he's the future.

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5 hours ago, Delano said:

I can't comment about the sex and cheerleading issue. I don't know how common or uncommon my experience is since I don't know the statistical breakdown of the nature of people's relationship.

 

 

@Delano The way, @Pioneer1 broke it down  - support for "good" black men has nothing to do with one-on-one relationships  If he were speaking about intimate black on black relationships - I would have simply liked the post and kept on moving. 

He mentioned women were cheer leaders and for "money making women to forgo shoes and slide a "good" black man money for speaking out against racism...

 

Let me go copy what he wrote.."


"We need BLACK Sarah Palins who are in love with strong Black men and willing to get behind Black men who are actually protecting the community and their families.
We need Black women who are CHEER LEADERS for masculine Black men instead of Black women who praise Tupac and the neighborhood criminals.

Women are the cheerleaders.
Whenever you want a group of men to accomplish something, just hire a group of women to cheer them on and tell them how sexy they are when they do it and you'll see men perform superhuman feats!

But it can also work the opposite way.
If you want to drag a community down to the level of a beast, just find a way to condition the women of that society to like it that way and the men will do their best competiting with eachother to keep it in that savage condition.

I believe the Black community would be FAR more advanced if Black women collectively would take the love and respect that they heap on criminals, clowns, and homosexual Black men.....and concentrate it on Black men who are actually making a difference in our community

* * *

Simple......

1. When you see Black men take bold stands against racism whether at school or at work or in the community....VERBALLY praise him IN PUBLIC.
Especially infront of White people.
Let the public know that you support these type of men and let other Black people know it too.
That will encourage more Black men to take stands if only to get the praise for it.


2. HAVE SEX with Black men who are taking stands against racism or injustice.

Again, leave the altrusitic bullshit with the Whites who originated it.
Most Black men like women.....sex.
A lot of women don't like the idea of showing appreciation to a man who is fighitng police brutality or mentoring her child or even life-coaching younger men.....rewarding him with sex.
They feel he should be doing these things out of the goodness of his own heart.

But most of what men do they do for sex and money and if offering that "good brother" on your block a little sum'sum will keep him fighitng for the community....it's worth it.


3. OFFER FINANCIAL SUPPORT to Black men who are positive and doing things in the community.
If you're making tons of money and have some to spare, instead of putting it in shoes just hand the brother an evelope and say, "Thank you for what you're doing in the community".

A lot of Black men who are active in fighting racism and injustice don't hold steady jobs because his attitude won't let him. Many strong masculine Black men are seen as threatening and kept out of the work force and are struggling financially.
If you see this, help him out.

But one of the biggest things is the PUBLIC show of support.

Like I said before, women are the cheerleaders and much of what men do they do to get praise from and impress women.
If they don't feel that fighting for the community or being strong or even supporting their women will get them praise, attention, or sex....they aren't gonna do it.

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@Mel Hopkins and @Pioneer1 Some wealthy women need to cut you a check and throw some loving your way. And do this in a public way. That's the inference I get from the above statement.

@Mel Hopkins I believe everyone has a talent. Which is why I could see Trump as President, because he is a savvy marketer. I have read about 15,000 people and I have yet to come across junk. Perhaps you don't see it everywhere, because their diamond is under to much dirt. Your post is about being effective and not wasting time. So you will meet people that are a waste of your time because your focus and intensity is lost on them. Ev

 

 

Every soul is worth saving but not every soul is worth buying.

 

 

Thanks Sis,

Mr Neptune.

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I have also come to really that people live in their own worlds, and sometimes they are cognizant that there are other worlds.

I hung with everyone and they were cool with me 'cause I was cool with them. I had one person tell me that I had inspired him and they think about me everyday. I also had two people that I had words with also come back and thank me when I was leaving.

 

I am dreaming my world into existence, but that is easier because I am Black Pshychic from the Bronx who lives in Oz.

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Del

 

I worked with a lack woman accountant and our White Male Supervisior, would ignore her and take her ideas as his own. I verified to her that she was not in fact losing her mind.


Sometimes you have to be plain with people or else they won't see what you see.

Many Black people, especially a lot of Black women just refuse to accept that White people will steal your ideas and incorporate them as their own.  They grow up really believing in White people and seeing them as morally upright and generally "good" people and refuse to believe in the obvious.
I said before....most Black women aren't taught to beware of White men....they're taught not to trust BLACK MEN.

I ttook Black people nearly 20 years to wake up to the fact that White folks were STEALING Hiphop and R&B and trying to incorporate the art as their own.
They just refused to believe it.

Part of the reason is because many of our people are in love with White people and see them as so benevolent and righteous that they can't fathom that they'd do something so blatantly wrong and disrespectful.

On the other hand they have no problem believing a Black person would steal their ideas and often go around accusing eachother of being jealous and "hating" all day long.





Cynique
 

With Pioneer, he is constantly thanking me for making his argument, an argument he hasn't even articulated and, in fact, has to have Troy translate what he is trying to say.

 

The reason I constantly thank you for making my arguments is because you tend to be SO argumentative that in the course of our disagreements if I just veer off of my original point to to make another you'll OPPOSE that new one also....which often times leads to you inadvertingly supporting my ORIGINAL POINT.....lol.

As a hypothetical example......

I say that men should be incharge and protect and provide for their families.
Then you turn around and argue that both should provide for themselves and a woman shouldn't rely on her husband to provide for her.
But during the course of the argument I'll make the point that there aren't enough good paying jobs for men today and most of the good paying jobs are occupied by women.
Then you'll turn around and say how silly and weak that excuse is and how the men you remember while growing up took care of their families and made no excuses for their short comings.

And that's where I would thank you for making my argument....lol.

Just like you can look for a broken clock to eventuallly be right some times......
You disagree with me SO much that I can almost always count on you eventually saying SOMETHING that agrees with whatever point I made in the PAST that you.....at that time...refused to acknowledge....lol.

 

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Mel

Cynique is right, men and women certainly ARE wired differently and think differently.

And most women tend to do just what you're doing right now....

Using EXCEPTIONS as examples to prove her points instead of accepting the GENERAL RULES that we both should see in this society as it relates to Black people especially Black men.

 

You talk about the successful professional Black people you're surrounded by and when I point out the fact that these people are exceptions to the norm in which most people are of AVERAGE intelligence with AVERAGE abilities (as opposed to talents) then you switch it up and say....well....then.....those "average" people (who make up the majority) should ASPIRE to be like the exceptional people by working harder at success.


Talking to you is like talking to Obama.....lol.
When he was still a candidate he came to Michigan and we had an opportunity to ask him questions and a member of my group asked him what plans did he have to bring back good paying jobs to the inner cities for those without college education.
Instead of answering the question, he spent 7 minutes telling us about how he plans to make college affordable to ALL children despite their economic background and how he planned to create the atmosphere to produce more high tech jobs for the rust belt cities.





Let me make my points clear and concise:

1. Both men AND women should support eachother.
But MOST men need support and encouragement from the women in their community (family, friends, co-workers, ect....) to better themselves and excel in life.

Most men...not exceptional men.....but most men need an incentive that gives them a reason to do better and be better in life.
For most men those incentives come in the form of pleasures like sex, money, power, ect....

Expecting most men to be successful or try to better themselves for nothing or without the hope of a rewards is like telling someone to be good without promising them a heaven to go to.



2. I haven't met EVERYONE....and I'm willing to wager that neither have you.
So I'm not qualified to make the statement that EVERYONE has gifts and talents

I can only speak of the people that I've met, lived with/around and worked with/around.

Most of them were of average intelligence and of average abilities....although I HAVE met plenty of exceptionally talented people in my life. But again, they are the EXCEPTION and not the rule so I don't base my perceptions of life and what society has to offer on how successful THEY are.

What's my point?

Listen to me.....

My point is AVERAGE Black men will do just fine in a NORMAL society where they don't have so many pressures against them and obstacles in their way.
But in THIS society that is heavily influenced by racism both overt and institutional....AVERAGE Black men often end up losing and often times only the most EXCEPTIONAL Black men succeed.

In a system of racism that is designed to fail AVERAGE Black children, the exceptionally intelligent will often still succeed.

....but look what the system did to the majority of Black students!!!


In a system of racism that is designed to lock up the AVERAGE Black man, the exceptionally smart and law abiding Black man will remain free.

......but look how many averge Black men are locked up behind bars for doing the exact same thing average White men are doing but not being prosecuted for!

When you talk about the Black CEOs and business owners you know or who are in your family, you're talking about a MINORITY of Black people who are doing well because of talents, gifts, blessings, or an exceptionally good work ethic.

I get it.....I acknowledge that and their efforts.

However they are still a MINORITY of Black people who are doing well, which means that in this society the MAJORITY aren't doing well.

Why is that?

How can the majority of ANY population be wrong????



Would you go to a hospital where the MAJORITY of people end up worse than they were when they came in?

Would you start blaming the patients for their terrible condition and start pointing at the few patients who survive and do well as an example of who they should emulate?

Or would you investigate the HOSPITAL and STAFF to figure out what the hell THEY are doing wrong to produce such a high casualty rate in a place that is suppose to heal people and make them well?

If the majority of a given population (that majority being average) aren't doing well in a particular society, then I believe that something is wrong.....not with that population...but with that SOCIETY and it's infrastructure.

Black people are living in a society that has been designed to be against our progress and yes a few EXCEPTIONAL people manage to find success but that doesn't mean we should focus on them instead of trying to change the injustices that are keeping the majority of our people locked out of success.


....and that's how we MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN, right Cynique ! ;)

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2 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

As a hypothetical example......

I say that men should be incharge and protect and provide for their families.
Then you turn around and argue that both should provide for themselves and a woman shouldn't rely on her husband to provide for her.
But during the course of the argument I'll make the point that there aren't enough good paying jobs for men today and most of the good paying jobs are occupied by women.
Then you'll turn around and say how silly and weak that excuse is and how the men you remember while growing up took care of their families and made no excuses for their short comings.

 Well, you did a terrible job of  making your case by presenting a hypothetical argument that you have concocted saying what i never said or implied. Hypothetical is by definition an unproven theory.  Give a specific example of my having said what you have transposed.  You put your spin on my  words and then reply  to what i haven't said.  i don't know whether this is a ploy or whether you are just crippled by your inability to be objective.  Yes, i am argumentive but you provide me with such golden opportunities to be so.

 

I can't believe that you continue to post  these long repetitive responses to what Mel has said.  It's like  nothing she said registered with you.  Instead of acknowledging what everybody else has repeatedly said in regard to you and her being from different worlds,  you keep droning on and on, making her argument for her.      

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12 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

How can the majority of ANY population be wrong????

 

@Pioneer1 Your arguments are inferior.  You've presented a false dichotomy and I haven't the time nor desire to refute each.  I'll just use your argument against you.

74 million people voted against 45* ,in the last election.   63+ million voted for him.  The minority decided who is sitting in the oval office today.    

Those you believe, are the current minority, those who chose to pull themselves out of the "average" pool, now control the fate of the average.   The "minority" of above-the-average people decide how much your time is worth per hour. The minority of above-the-average people decide if they will hire you for a job.  The minority of above-the-average people decide where you will live, what clothes you wear, what you eat and what kind of health care you deserve.

 

And you ask, How can the majority of ANY population be wrong????  

They can't be wrong.  They don't decide a damn thing. 


 

Now you can continue to excuse people for remaining average.  Citing all the things that are keeping them average - or you can look to the people living in the same society under the same conditions and follow their lead to success.   Because trust, the "minority" of above-the-average people aren't going to decide to change society so it will ease the pressures on folks too lazy to determine their own strengths. 


But then again maybe pounding the drums for mediocrity is to help you remain atop the heap of the company you keep.  Only you know your reasons.    

In the interim, the "minority "of above-the-average people who pulled themselves out of the "average" pile will continue to decide your fate and the fate of those who you continue to excuse for being mediocre.  

 

Case-in-point, policymakers have been telling the masses since before the 90s, those high paying jobs are not coming back.  Reagan said as much in the 80s.  

So, when Democratic Presidential candidate Obama, another one in the minority of those above-the-average folks, who came after the dotcom bust and its resurgence, gently told those in attendance, those jobs are not coming back, did they not believe him?   President Obama came after the fall of the Auto-industry and bailed it out and when it returned it went high-tech.  


Yet, someone was still asking about jobs that left before the turn of the century? 

Yes, thank you for proving my point.

Remaining average is a choice.    

President Obama was not the savior but he attempted to provide educational opportunities for the future generations and did.  (I already posted that black women are now the most educated in America)  But even Jesus couldn't save those too lazy to educate themselves about their own talents and innate power.  Hmm, was it the majority or minority that even crucified him for trying? 


But you seem to think cheerleading black women who provide sex to dead-from-the-neck-on-up men will raise up the black community.     

Ain't nobody got to time to for those whom won't help himself.

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I don't think we come from different world.

I think we just have different PERSPECTIVES of the same world.



Del

Should men shoot some cash to single mothers and service them. Since they seem to be raising more kids on their own than single Black men


If the mother is doing a good job and being a good mother....ofcourse.

Hell, how did you think WELFARE got started?
Instead of individuals giving money to women with children, the government just started doing it to maintain them.

 


I have no comment after the post Mel sent me from Pioneer.


I'm not sure what comment she sent YOU, but I've sent NO comments to her.
 

 





Mel


So, when Democratic Presidential candidate Obama, another one in the minority of those above-the-average folks, who came after the dotcom bust and its resurgence, gently told those in attendance, those jobs are not coming back, did they not believe him?


I believed him.
Because I knew that he.....like most of the presidents who came before him...wasn't gonna do a damn thing to BRING them back.

I'm beginning to wonder if Troy wasn't right after all about you not understanding or comprehending everything I'm saying.

When you repeatedly make statements like:

 

-"those who chose to pull themselves out of the "average" pool"
 

-"or you can look to the people living in the same society under the same conditions and follow their lead to success"

-"those too lazy to educate themselves about their own talents and innate power"

 

-"Ain't nobody got to time to for those whom won't help himself"



.....tells me that you still believe high achievement and being exceptional is a CHOICE for most people.



You can't conceive of the fact that some people don't have the intelligence or energy to accomplish what you or some of those in your circle have....and you seek to punish them for it.


Calling poor or even average peope who fall on hard times "lazy" or incinuating that they are in their condition because of personal choices or moral shortcoming is one of the oldest tricks that corporatists and conservatives use to DEFLECT from the socio-economic injustices they have created in society that have caused these problems.

Ofcourse everyone makes bad decisions from time to time, but again....is EVERYONE wrong?

Look, could you do me this favor?
Could you just answer this question to see if we're on the same page or even in the same "world":

Do you believe the MAJORITY of Black people in the United States are NOT successful?

When I say successful I mean it in the generally understood sense of being healthy, financially independent, with stable families and homes.

I'm not asking you for reasons for their condition, I'm just simply asking do you believe that MOST Black people in the United States today have or have NOT achieved atleast that basic level of success?





BTW.....
Don't think those little slick remarks about me exploiting people in my community are getting by me....lol.
I see you.

I might be nice and let it go once or twice, but keep on........

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The total number of voting age Americans who did not vote is much higher than the number who voted for Trump or Clinton.  That is the true majority opinion.

 

Whether you believe that all people are capable of greatness or not. The country generates too much wealth for the average people to be living the way they do.

 

Black or white, male or female, we all should be doing a better job of supporting each other. 

 

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On 8/16/2017 at 9:30 PM, Pioneer1 said:

BTW.....
Don't think those little slick remarks about me exploiting people in my community are getting by me....lol.
I see you.

I might be nice and let it go once or twice, but keep on........


@Pioneer1 I made my statement.  How you respond is your business. Just like I mentioned about being average, the choice is always yours.     Oh, and I'm never nice. I don't waste my time on it.

3 hours ago, Troy said:

Black or white, male or female, we all should be doing a better job of supporting each other. 

 

@Troy , Why?   

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Why? Because on a global scale there is far too much suffering, poverty, and violence. Collectively Humanity could do a much better job ensuring the well-being of our species.

 

Closer to home wealth inequality is at an all-time high. Americans can certainly do better than that. We just don't care enough about each other to try very hard.

 

We live in a culture where it is perfectly acceptable to lock up huge portions of the population. It is insane.

 

The icing on the cake however is the election of 45. It says a lot about our country, none of it very good.

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20 minutes ago, Troy said:

We just don't care enough about each other to try very hard.

 

Exactly.   This is why I ask "WHY" should we care. If we don't care about each other now. "Or even try very hard to care"  What is the impetus to care.  And clearly pain and suffering  isn't enough.    It's not like we all don't know what you've mentioned already exist.  We've existed this way for the last  2, 017 years.  Probably more if I add in Before Common Era -  

But only the strong survive...

 

So while I read your words, and was almost tempted to put a like on it - my other side says there has to be a reason why we should care ...and pain and suffering ain't it.  We know there's  a lot of pain and suffering -and that hasn't moved us to do anything before?.  

 

So there has to be another reason to care...THE WHY is what I want to know.     


I have a feeling, though, it has nothing to do with equity or making people comfortable.  We've built and contributed to this society and we sure didn't care enough to make sure it wouldn't be one that crushes the spirit.   Sure there a lot people sitting in prison but they didn't just get rounded up one day like it was an internment camp.   Incarcerating a large number of society happens when no one cares.   I know one black man who isn't in there thanks to me... I don't run away from jury duty.  I get called regularly because I VOTE in every election. But I digress.  

We're at the precipice,  and now some are crying "we will not be replaced" while others are looking for "women to save them", while others are looking for "us to support each other."     I think the real reason "Why" is because there's a huge shift underway -and there's a lot of uncertainty, people are scared shitless and NOW they want support.   

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Oh I get your question now. It is actually in our own self-interest to do more for others.

 

In a world where everyone is free to maximize their own potential, we all benefit. A rising tide lifts all boats that sort of thing.

 

Mel would you shave 500 square feet off your house in exchange for never having to lock the front door? That 500 square feet can go toward someone who is homeless. We can reduce crime by simply ensuring that people's basic needs are met.

 

Think about all of the great discoveries that will never happen because so many in our population cannot afford an education. Many of the most successful people who we think we can emulate did not have to pay for college Colin Powell did not have to pay to go to City College. When we started college we could borrow enough to attend. Today many students can't even borrow enough go.  Even if they could the quality of the education has gone down a great deal employers do not value it as much so the graduates fare less well.

 

Having large numbers of uneducated or poorly educated people does not serve our culture or Society.

 

 

 

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"Look how many STRONG Black men who are locked up behind bars because they displayed strength and bravery in a society where being weak and passive is often more prized in men."


Oh really? Can you tell me exactly how STRONG Black men are locked up for displaying strength and bravery? Please give details. And please also tell me what "culture or society praises and encourages men to be weak and passive". I know of no culture like that. More details please……
 

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5 hours ago, Troy said:

Mel would you shave 500 square feet off your house in exchange for never having to lock the front door? That 500 square feet can go toward someone who is homeless. We can reduce crime by simply ensuring that people's basic needs are met.

 

@Troy, No, I wouldn't give 500 square of my house  to anyone because are people are full of sh*t.  I can't even trust them not to lie to themselves. 

  What I would do,  is what I have done every day of my life.   I DO NOT SUPPORT people, institutions or entities that ensure someone will be homeless, incarcerated or beat down .  To be candid.. If you can't tell by now, I don't support most bullsh*t thinking or bullsh*t activities that folks participate in that have an adverse effect on our society.  

I don't wait until its fashionable - I live my life in a way that people or other living things aren't crushed under the weight of my decisions.    Case in point, I've just learned about godaddy and their game-hunting CEO now I'm looking to extract myself from using their services.   Peter Thiel founder of paypal - isn't someone I want to do business with so now I'm looking for another company (oh wait I see that's going to take me a minute) ...  Those are the latest on my list - show me who you are and how you harm and you can forget about me supplying you anything.  

This is why I'm not impressed by anyone running around trying to take down monuments and undo what they participated in to build up  over the years.  Why do you think I spend so much of my time working for FREE with people who are helping themselves - because  I believe  in focusing on those who are looking to make a change.  If we don't like results society is handing us  just STOP PROPPING IT UP!  

Edited by Mel Hopkins
Included a link regarding Peter Thiel
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Mel

 

... I don't run away from jury duty. I get called regularly because I VOTE in every election.


Well, I vote regularly too...for candidates I actually like...and so far I have YET to be called to jury duty.

One of the things that has bothered me about the legal system is how they claim you're supposed to be judge by a jury of your PEERS.
Yet they pick jury members from a list of local registered voters.
Most of these are educated middle class people with good jobs and clean criminal records.
How are they "peers" to most people in the ghetto or living in poverty?

If a man convicted of a crime happens to be unemployed, poor, and Black.....then his PEERS are also unemployed, poor, Black...and male....so THAT'S who should make up the jury pool!


 

Oh, and I'm never nice. I don't waste my time on it.


Well if you have children you MUST have been nice to some man or men....lol.

Now are you going to answer my question:

Do you believe that the majority of Black people in the United States are NOT successful?



 

 


Troy

Black or white, male or female, we all should be doing a better job of supporting each other.


I believe the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT is the ultimate human entity that bears the responsibility in making sure all members of this society have their material needs supported.
They should be the one who makes sure no one goes without food, clothing, shelter, or healthcare.

I don't have enough trust in individual human beings being nice or charitable enough to provide support for those who really need it.

Mel's statments about people being lazy or only the strong surviving is a great example of the thinking of a lot of people and why we shouldn't rely on "good will" or expect a sympathetic population to step in and help those who are the most vulnerable.


You have people with all type of philosophies and moral points of view.
Some believe that poor people are poor because of moral issues and they deserve it.
Other's feel that poor people were born with "bad karma".
Others believe poor and sick people are "defective" and that they should be allowed to die so as not to spread their "defective genes".....like the Nazis used to believe.


You have ALL TYPES of views and judgements about poverty, some are rational and others irrational.
So you must have a government welfare system that by-passes all the opinions and moral judgements and just support the BASIC NEEDS of people who are not able to do it for themselves for whatever reason.

Just the basics....and if they have the talents or the smarts to do MORE then by all means do it.


It's the same with the sick.....
Some people believe those who are sick are sick because of poor decisions like drinking too much or smoking cigarettes.....and THEY believe those people should suffer from the consequences of those decisions while not realizing how cruel and torturing it is to make someone suffer and die from lung cancer simply because of a stupid decision they made as kids.

Again, others believe people get sick because of a genetic defect and that they should be allowed to die off.
We can't rely on support from individuals like this or even expect sympathy from them.
You have UNIVERSAL health care provided by the government to by-pass all of that foolish thinking and just help people who need help when they need it without judging them.



Xeon


Oh really? Can you tell me exactly how STRONG Black men are locked up for displaying strength and bravery? Please give details. And please also tell me what "culture or society praises and encourages men to be weak and passive". I know of no culture like that. More details please……


Look at all the gang members inside prison.
Most of these men are young, physically strong, and brave with a propensity toward violence.

1000 years ago in more traditional socities where violence and bravery were characteristics highly prized in men by other men as well as the women of that society.....these same men would have been HIGHLY respected and would receive honorary social status in those societies.

Most of these young men in prison are probably highly sexed and brag about all the women they were having sex with on the outside....another highly prized trait in the ANCIENT WORLD.

So the typical "ganster" in prison may be strong, brave, and violent....meaning he's willing to take action...and a sex machine which means he virile and potent.

NATURE MADE HIM STRONG.....but this society demonizes him.
In this society he is imprisoned for his behavior which is frowned upon and seen as barbaric and immature.

Now goofy nerdy men like Bill Gates and other techies are considered high in social status.
They may be weak and cowardly but in this artificial world THEY now have the wealth and the women are taught to go for them instead of the strong, violent, "thug" on the street who could give her many babies and actually protect her from harm.

Much of what is natural for humanity has been turned upside down in this artificial society.

But I suppose you believe that type of thinking is "twisted".....lol.

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Pioneer I agree with you about the government, but keep in mind the government is run by people.  Right now those people should be doing a much better job.  Indeed they will have to if this nation is going to last more than a coupe hundred years.

 

Del are you saying 45's divisiveness will ultimately unify people? You may be right--at least I hope you are...

 

Del you may have been away from being around large numbers of Black people too long, while i don't agree with Pioneer on everything.  I understand where he is coming from.

 

Ya'll are not that dissimilar.   One similarity worth exploring is why you both choose to participate here.  Your time is valuable and you two can be doing anything else, but you have decided to provide this forum with the benefit of your insight and perspectives.  Why?

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23 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Well if you have children you MUST have been nice to some man or men....lol.

Now are you going to answer my question:

Do you believe that the majority of Black people in the United States are NOT successful?


@Pioneer1,  You must be confusing nice with kind.  I'm kind to people but I'm never nice.    The etymology (origin) of Nice - is  not know , ignorant, stupid... while people may use it to mean Kind - I don't.   I don't waste time being stupid of ignorant of people's foolishness.  

As for your question, the majority of black people in the United States are successful  in every sense of the word.  

The majority (73%) of black people in the inner cities of America  and the majority (80%) of black people in the suburbs are living  above the poverty line.  

This means 20% of suburban black people and 27% of inner city black people are poor.   Source: The Atlantic

 

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Troy what in your experience helps you understand. That Black Women should be cheerleaders to Black Men and have sex with them to encourage them in the struggle.

 

the reason I am here is because we are friends. And I believe in you vision. And not to sound arrogant but my background and experience draws on business and Magic. Which I feel can be of use to us. I think Cynique is one of the best critical thinkers I have met. Plus she has isn't some dry academic. Mel is my psychic sister. and her post about the esoteric and thinking sends me into interesting corridors in the mind of Del Strachen. Pioneer post are extremely challenging and know I just read them and don't respond. since his experience is valid. and provides a window for an alternate take on things. Also once or twice he mentioned an idea I had previously. And his start has risen in my eyes, when he worked out the Issac Newtown.

 

I spent many years dancing in the dark with a lot of Black people. until I went international in 1996.

 

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Troy
 

Your time is valuable and you two can be doing anything else, but you have decided to provide this forum with the benefit of your insight and perspectives. Why?


I'm here to keep an eye on Cynique.
If she goes to far, someone has to be here to rein her in.




Mel

 

 

The majority (73%) of black people in the inner cities of America  and the majority (80%) of black people in the suburbs are living  above the poverty line.  


Lol @ "above the poverty line".



So THAT'S your definition of "success"????
Lol....above some arbitrary "poverty line" that usually crunches a family of 4 people into about $20,000 a year or some other ridiculous figure that no human being could possibly suppot themselves on in this nation.

You mentioned nothing about quality of life, health care, family relations, legal issue, and other factors of real success in society.

But as long as nearly 3 quarters of negroes aren't living in squalor (according to The Atlantic)....most Black folks are doing great??


((shakes head))

Thank you nicely kindly for
atleast answering my question, but I might as well end this conversation right here.

 


 
 

Del

 

Troy what in your experience helps you understand. That Black Women should be cheerleaders to Black Men and have sex with them to encourage them in the struggle.


Man, how could you grow up in New York or any urban community and NOT understand this?

You can understand Wall Street, the stock market, and what influences IT.........
But do you mean to sit up and tell me that you can't underst
and how Black women and sex can be used to influence Black men????

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No i can't reconcile your views to my life experience. 

I have hung with hustler legit and not legal. However i haven't cone across anyone that gives money or sex away to encourage a person they aren't in a relationship with. Let me know how that's working for you. Since by you reckoning and deeds you should not be lacking for "comforts."

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Man there's a lot going on in this thread. I see rereading it now that I missed quite a bit.

 

Del I missed your question about finding a specific incident when you verbally attacked pioneer. Did I use the word verbally attack? if I did that was not the right description; maybe snide remark or something like that but it was rather base and unnecessary. If I come across one of the statements I'll share it, but you'll probably do it again and I'll point it out at that time.

 

You brought up the probability statement again that I made which you keep saying it was wrong. what I said was not wrong it was a rather basic idea rather than entertain the idea that you did not understand what I wrote, or seek clarification you insisted that I was wrong. But it's not worth rehashing that argument.

 

Del the differences that you and Pioneer may have are incidental compared to the similarity that I've described. Again your participation here is a tremendous similarity.

 

For example, a significant portion of our population did not vote in the last presidential election. One could puy the people that voted into one group, regardless of who they voted for, and call them "voters." The other group who decided not to vote or even register to vote could be added to a group called "non-voters."

 

People who cast votes share common traits. One of them could be as simple as understanding the importance of casting a vote. Who they voted for may not be as important as the fact that they cast the vote.

 

Delano you and Pioneer voters.;)

 

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So all the Black men Mel knows are driven, high achieving CEOs who keep up their lawns and are very respectful and helpful to the women in their lives.

And all the Black men Del knew growing up in New York...even the hustlers and thugs.....weren't interested in sex and could care less whether or not they got women or even impressed them.

Clearly we DO live in different worlds.

I need someone to send me a plane ticket out of the twighlight zone....lol.

 

 


Del
 

I have hung with hustler legit and not legal. However i haven't cone across anyone that gives money or sex away to encourage a person they aren't in a relationship with. Let me know how that's working for you. Since by you reckoning and deeds you should not be lacking for "comforts."


I think you're misunderstanding me.
It's not the hustler that gives sex for encouragement.
The hustler GETS sex and money as an encouragement and reward for his scheming and grinding.
The goal of most street hustlers is to get money, power, and sex.
The same as most men who call themselves Presidents, CEOs, and world leaders.

Most men want the same thing regardless of their social status....but they may use different avenues to arrive at the same goal.

Others give money or sex to HIM to influence him or encourage him.
Men will give him money to influence him and women will sleep with him to influence him or because they are attracted to his power in the streets.

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What hustler says encourage me and I'll give it all to you. What color is the sky in  your world. 

No Pioneer people make exhanges all the time.  What i am question is your sanity in thinking that you can receive sex for doing what Man should do. Thats what i find confusing. It's always value for value. Either your sense of self is high or you value others struggle for resources too low.

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Del

What color is the sky in your world.


What sky?
We build underground in my world.

 

 

What i am question is your sanity in thinking that you can receive sex for doing what Man should do. Thats what i find confusing. It's always value for value. Either your sense of self is high or you value others struggle for resources too low.


Oh....man "should" do????

I see you still believe that men have roles and women have roles.

If you feel men (or even women for that matter) SHOULD do anything "just because" then you aren't as free of a thinker as you THINK you are.

Rather than using pure reason and logic, clearly your morals and views have been heavily influenced by the society you grew up in and/or the society you currently reside in.

Men have historically done the things traditionally seen as "the manly thing to do" for 2 main reasons:

1. They did it to ultimately earn the right to have sex with the woman/women of their choice.
2. They did it because they were TAUGHT to do it by other men in society....meaning it was a tradition.

Being brave and fighting to protect not just yourself but your woman.
Working to take care of your woman.
Shoveling your neighbor's snow or cutting their grass for free
Holding the door open for women

These are all considered "manly" things to do but they aren't NATURAL for men to do.
They are learned behaviors that were taught to them as boys by older men who themselves we taught to do these things.

My point is if you go back far enough, these things were done by men to IMPRESS women or win their FAVOR to attract them and ultimately have sex with them.

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Del

Why do put your motives on other people and say that's how it is. When people here consistently say that's not their experience .
 

Several reasons...............

First, with all due respect to you and all of the others on the board, you all and your current experiences DO NOT represent the lifestyle and views of the majority of Black people in America.

With the exception of maybe Cynique, you all are highly degreed and for the most part successful professionals, which is good.

You've found a way to manuever through this system regardless of it's racism and injustices, which is also good.

But unfortunately MOST Black people have not and it is THEIR experiences that actually predominate this society, not yours.
Even if you started off poor like Troy, whatever motivated you or him to study and work your way out of poverty DID NOT motivate other Black people of the same potential....which means even what motivates you is different from most.

I'm part of that poor and working class which is why my experiences and views don't always line up with yours.

Also, because this is the internet and especially this is a board more geared toward authors and others more inclinded toward intellectual pursuits, you're going to get more perspectives from educated Black professionals than from the average poor or working class Black person.

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On 8/22/2017 at 9:02 PM, Pioneer1 said:

You mentioned nothing about quality of life, health care, family relations, legal issue, and other factors of real success in society.

 

@Pioneer1  Seriously?  Why don't you do the work and find out these answers about 75 Percent of Black People who are already successful enough to NOT live in poverty.   I've provided evidence that  black people can and ARE doing better than expected and then you throw in your definition of success and tell me I mentioned nothing about what's on your mind.   I don't live in your world - I definitely have no clue what's on your mind. 

But this is exactly why NO ONE In my world deals in excuses.  

Ain't nobody got time for someone whose ratios of excuses to why they can't is out of proportion to solutions to how they can.   
 

And now I'm done with this conversation.  

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Mel

 

I've provided evidence that black people can and ARE doing better than expected and then you throw in your definition of success and tell me I mentioned nothing about what's on your mind. I don't live in your world - I definitely have no clue what's on your mind.

I GAVE you a clue of what was on my mind when I told you what MY idea of success was before asking you the question.

I said:
"When I say successful I mean it in the generally understood sense of being healthy, financially independent, with stable families and homes."

Go on back there and read it.....lol...it's still there.

But instead of answering the question as posed, you come running out with some paper you got from The Atlantic that talks about how over 70% of Black folks managed to avoid poverty as if we should be happy and thankful.

 

Don't act like I'm making things up as I go along.
I told you EXACTLY what I meant by success and asked you if you believe Black folks met that the criteria; instead you ignored it and gave me some unverified statistic that doesn't even touch the question.


As far as Black people doing better than expected...................


Better than expected by WHOM?

Hell, some expected Black people to be EXTINCT by now with all the traps like drugs and AIDS put out to destroy them.

So yeah, we're still ALIVE....lol.

But it's not enough to simply hold on, hang on, and stay alive.

Again, my idea of success is THRIVING with a stable home, good health, strong and healthy social life, and making over $40,000 a year atleast depending on where you live.

That puts one solidly in the MIDDLE of Middle Class (between working class and professional class) and that's what the majority of Americans should under normal circumstances.

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