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Troy

Move Over Nicki Minaj Make Way for Cardi B!

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It appears record executives have created another Nicki Minaj except this one, unlike any other female rapper of the past three decades, has a #1 Single on Billboard's "Hot 100." Arguably this achievement makes Cardi B the hottest female rapper today.

 

Until an hour ago I never heard of Cardi B or this song. Educate2Empower, sent me the following email message.  I don't know how I got on their mailing list, but given our recent, and similar conversation about Nicki Minaj, I figured I'd share their email here.

 

Of course there will many who will argue that men have no say on the matter. This is the case of a powerful woman freely exhibiting her sexuality, exercising her freedom of speech, and making money. There is no adverse impact on culture as young girls are smart enough to recognize Cardi is an entertainer and will in fact be inspired by her success. The white folks who consumer her product are sophisticated enough not to equate Cardi B, with Black women in general, or to objectify them in any way.  

 

Of course I see things a little differently, but there is seemingly little I can do, other than continuing to try to get opposing viewpoints into people's heads through this discussion forum and the books I sell. 

 

But the competition for the control of our culture is fierce and is increasingly defined by a few powerful corporations who clearly don't give a f*ck about Black people.  The sad part is given our support of these corporations many of us don't give a f*ck about Black people either.

 

--------- start Educate2Empower email --------------------

educate2empower.jpg

 

Female rapper Cardi B's "Bodak Yellow" single just became #1 on Billboard magazine's Hot 100 chart for 10/7/17, which is a first for a solo female rapper since the 90s (Lauryn Hill did it back in 1998 with her "Doo Wop (That Thing)" single). Janet Jackson also gave this Cardi B song a shout out on her current world tour.

Read the lyrics below and watch the video also. Are the lyrics saying anything? How are females represented? Is it truly representing female empowerment? What is the language telling us and our children? What is the visual telling us and our children? Do you see any connection or relevance to E2E's "The N-Word's Multi-Layered Power Structure" video we shared with you a few weeks ago? What role do record and radio company executives play in the music we listen to? What about the artists - what guides their decision (money or artistry)? What do we as consumers and parents allow? Should we be more aware? What do you think is the ultimate impact globally of these lyrics and the image/visual?

Read, view, think, analyze, share, and connect the dots.

 

 

 

 

BODAK YELLOW by Cardi B

KSR (ooh)
Hah, it's Cardi, ayy
Said, "I'm the sh*t, they can't fu*k with me if they wanted to"
"I don't gotta dance"

Said, "Lil bit*h, you can't fu*k with me if you wanted to" (ooh)
These expensive, these is red bottoms, these is bloody shoes (ooh)
Hit the store, I can get 'em both, I don't wanna choose (bah)
And I'm quick, cut a n*gga off, so don't get comfortable, look (ooh)

I don't dance now, I make money moves (wave, ayy)
Say I don't gotta dance, I make money move (ooh, ooh)
If I see you and I don't speak, that means I don't fu*k with you (ah)
I'm a boss, you a worker, bit*h, I make bloody moves (bags)

Now she say she gon' do what to who? Let's find out and see
Cardi B, you know where I'm at, you know where I be (ooh, ooh)
You in the club just to party, I'm there, I get paid a fee (bah)
I be in and out them banks so much, I know they're tired of me
Honestly, don't give a fu*k 'bout who ain't fond of me (who)
Dropped two mixtapes in six months, what bit*h working as hard as me? (yeah)
I don't bother with these ho*s, don't let these ho*s bother me
They see pictures, they say, "Goals," bit*h, I'm who they tryna be
Look, I might just chill in some BAPE (ooh), I might just chill with your boo
I might just feel on your babe, my pus*y feel like a lake
He wanna swim with his face, I'm like, "Okay" (okay)
I'll let him get what he want, he buy me Yves Saint Laurent (yeah)
And the new whip, when I go fast as a horse, I got the trunk in the front (vroom)
I'm the hottest in the street (pew, street), know you prolly heard of me (yeah)
Got a bag and fixed my teeth (teeth), hope you ho*s know it ain't cheap (cheap)
And I pay my mama bills (bills), I ain't got no time to chill (blah)
Think these ho*s be mad at me (ooh), their baby father want a feel (ooh)

Said, "Lil bit*h, you can't fu*k with me if you wanted to" (ooh)
These expensive, these is red bottoms, these is bloody shoes (ooh)
Hit the store, I can get 'em both, I don't wanna choose (bah)
And I'm quick, cut a n*gga off, so don't get comfortable, look (ooh)

I don't dance now, I make money moves (wave, ayy)
Say I don't gotta dance, I make money move (ooh, ooh)
If I see you and I don't speak, that means I don't fu*k with you (ah)
I'm a boss, you a worker, bit*h, I make bloody moves (bags, bags)

If you a p*ssy, you get popped (popped), you a groupie, you a opp (opp, blah)
Don't you come around my way (way), you can't hang around my block (block, nope)
And I just checked my accounts, turns out, I'm rich, I'm rich, I'm rich (I'm rich)
I put my hand above my hip, I bet you dip, he dip, she dip (grrrah)
I say I get the money and go, this sh*t is hot like a stove (ooh)
My p*ssy glitter as gold, tell that lil bit*h play her role (ah, ah)
I just a-rove in a Rolls (oh), I just came up in a Wraith (yeah)
I need to fill up the tank, no, I need to fill up the safe (ooh)
I need to let all these ho*s know that none of their n*ggas is safe
I go to dinner and steak (blah, yeah), only the real can relate (yeah)
I used to live in the P's (ooh, ooh), now it's a crib with a gate (ah)
Rollie got charms, look like Frosted Flakes (bling)
Had to let these bit*hes know (yeah), just in case these ho*s forgot (oh)
I just run and check the mail, another check from Mona Scott (oh)

Said, "Lil bit*h, you can't fu*k with me if you wanted to" (ooh)
These expensive, these is red bottoms, these is bloody shoes (ooh)
Hit the store, I can get 'em both, I don't wanna choose (bah)
And I'm quick, cut a n*gga off, so don't get comfortable, look (ooh)

I don't dance now, I make money moves (wave, ayy)
Say I don't gotta dance, I make money move (ooh, ooh)
If I see you and I don't speak, that means I don't fu*k with you (ah)
I'm a boss, you a worker, bit*h, I make bloody moves (bags)

 

--------- end E2E email --------------------

 

E2E's "The N-Word's Multi-Layered Power Structure" video

 

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No redeeming value in Cardi B's ode to herself,

braggin'  'bout bling bought with tainted wealth,

lookin for validation and hoping to impress,

unable to conceal what caused her distress

in the past life vows of  a determined gonna-be

 filled  with  the dreams of a  strivin wanna-be. 

No matter how  much she repeats her chant,

her hollow victory is a pathetic rant,

a yearning to be crowed by fame

when all that awaits is her turn in a game

where playas win at being lame.

 

 

 

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I don't understand the point.  How does Cardi b have anything to do with the state of Black American women or black women/girls empowerment?     I remember posting the stats of Black American women here in this forum recently.  Here in America, Black women make up 44 percent of the labor force. They head their own households, 1.5 million black women are business owners,  88 of those are start-up tech firms.  Black women are  homeowners,  underpaid, and  medically under serve to name a few stats.   The greatest achievement of black women is they are the most formally educated group in America as of 2016...oh and 94 percent of the black women tried to save America from Pumpkinhead.    So, I know, I'm missing the correlation here.   

What is the point about Cardi b having the number 1 recording in the U.S?  It's a musical recording not the state of the world today. 

Or unless I missed it and we are using Future or  Kanye as a role model as the standard to raise our children and a measuring stick for the state of black men?

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Nique

show  it like Pinterest

Pique 

Their interest. 

Laying down the bars

Didn't know you could rap. 

Shorty needs to cut the crap. 

Mudfoot  can't reach the stars. 

 

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Mel you are gonna have to share the source of these stats again.  How can it be possible for women, who are roughly 7% of the population be 44% of the work force?  Did you find that stat on Facebook ;)

 

My point @Mel Hopkins, is that corporations clearly do not care how Black people are portrayed. If they can get women to rung around scantily clad and cursing like a sailor and make money they'll do it.  Do you think these music executives care how Black people women are portrayed?

 

The rest of the post, is what I copied form the email, and they simply pose questions.

 

I am glad however there was a time when they treated Black women with a bit more class.  The women dressed like adults, not hookers; and were talented signers, not potty mouth children; and everybody made money.  We know what is possible so we can;t say this is what the public wants.  This is what they give us, and we can't do anything about it.

 

Where is Nina Simone when you need her?

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10 minutes ago, Troy said:

Mel you are gonna have to share the source of these stats again

This is what I'm talking about being too lazy... Troy, when in doubt, research!!!

10 minutes ago, Troy said:

Black people are portrayed. If they can get women to rung around scantily clad and cursing like a sailor and make money they'll do it.  Do you think these music executives care how Black people women are portrayed?

 

And I don't care what other people "think" of us... I care about what we are doing. 

And what is your problem with how women dress?  You do realize women can wear anything they want to wear.  If they choose to wear a head-to-toe burqa or a floss between the butt - it's their choice, AND no one gets a vote. 

Edited by Mel Hopkins
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@Mel Hopkins you missed my point.  Let me be clear: Black women do not make up 44% of the workforce.  I do not need to research it.  Common sense tells us that 7% of the population does not make up 44% of our work force.  That is why I asked you to share the the source of your information.  I'm surprised that you would suggest that I'm lazy when it comes to research.

 

On 9/27/2017 at 3:54 PM, Mel Hopkins said:

Here in America, Black women make up 44 percent of the labor force.

 

Even the source you provided does not say this.  Maybe what you meant was that Black women's participation rate in the work force is 44%.  Meaning 44% of the women who can work are actually working. but I can't know because the statement you made is simply not factual.

 

I also disagree with what is acceptable dress.  There is a time and place for everything, and these decisions are not made by one person, but an entire culture.  There should be standards for not just dress, but behavior. When you through these things away you throw away the culture.

 

The problem with Black culture is that we don't define it, corporations do. Motivated by money, they uplift former stippers with limited rap skills over the contemporary Aretha Franklins. This is more than about what a woman should wear. It is abut what we value, what music is supported, and who profits from it.

 

I take it you like the current state of affairs Mel.

 

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@Troy  Here's another view. In the record business, there are still  different genres for people with different tastes in music. It's not all Rap.   Grammys and AMA and Soul Train and MTV awards present awards in many different categories     And black female artist are not all Nikki Minaj skanks. Many are quite elegant. If you could bring yourself to watch any of the music award shows, you would see the wide variety of styles  black entertainers are rockin. 

 

Nowadays established artists produce their own music and are even  given their own labels by their  parent companies.  I say all of this to say that black performers create their own looks and the record companies trust them to do this, as long as they bring in the money. The culture is alive and well, still hip and still imitated by others. ;)

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7 hours ago, Troy said:

@Mel Hopkins you missed my point.

 

@Troy  I never miss your point.  I refute it. 

 

Now unless you provide the data to refute my assertion about black women is wrong  then it stands. The data is available, I suggest you get to work. 

 

In the meantime,  If you look at your own words,  you've attempted to decide how the black community should look but fail to recognize that is your personal standard.   

 

You don't get to define black culture, no one does.  And if for some reason that power was bestowed upon you, black culture isn't a monolith.  We're not uniformed and never have been - we're a mosaic and that's always been our strength.     

 

However, for one who assails against corporate america for dressing emcees, you "doth protest too much, methinks" .

 

You've decided that corporate america is dressing emcees and then trotting them out on stage to represent black america. First of all when was black america ever defined by its entertainers.  Maybe other groups tried to copy, steal and most definitely mutilate our talents but black people have never defined our culture by our entertainers...

 

Well not until you, that is.  But the rest of us are entertained by entertainers in their costumes.  

By your own admission you stated you don't know much about the music business.   From your words, I can tell you know even less about stylists and  the people who hire them. It is rarely the record labels.   

Still at the crux of your argument,  is this offensive habit you have of denying women their agency.    Now I understand why.  You prefer to decide how women dress but since you're powerless -you place the blame on corporate america, in an effort to usurp their imagined power.   

 

Still, even if you were able to accomplish that feat... your next obstacle would be black women. Since African American women now head more than 1.5 million businesses throughout the U.S with over $42 billion in sales and $ 7.7 billion in payroll - 2015  U.S. Census Survey of Business owners - it's clear black women are deciding their own fate - and that includes how they dress themselves.  

 

 

 

 

 

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Hmmmm, OK  @Mel Hopkins  I assuming we are at the same place when it comes to interpreting data.  A statement that you made, and are vigorously defending, is perceived by me to be obviously false--on its face.  I assumed once I made that point clear that you would see the obvious mistake, thank me for pointing out the error, adjust you point, and move on.  Instead you've dug in deeper.  

 

Mel the Bureau of Labor Statistics reports that Black people (male and female) make up 12% of the work force.  Do you still think Black women make off 44% of the workforce.

 

No where did you read that I want to deny women their agency--I want them to reclaim it!  What I'm saying is that there needs to be standards, and we can't allow corporations to make them for us. Mel do you disagree with that sentiment?

 

@Cynique, You are right about my lack of knowledge about the contemporary music currently available. And you are right I don't watch the awards shows.  In fact this was the same point @CDBurns, used to make about rap, you can't judge it by what the major labels are pushing.  Indeed I discover Brothers like Gregory Porter, whose music I enjoy, though a post @Mel Hopkins, made here.

 

However, I'm doubt the culture is "alive and well."  Corporation have turned radio stations into an oligarchy and control what we hear on the radio. Other corporation make music available for free download, making it virtually made it impossible for all but the most popular artists to make money from selling their music.

 

I'm sure artist will be artists and continue to struggle to do what they do out of love of the craft.  I'm in the same camp;  I get it.  But I also recognize that oligarchies and a lack of government oversight has made the marketplace worse for musicians collectively.  As a result we have artists like Cardi B, rising way above all the other great rappers I'll never earn about.

 

Maybe if Educate2Empower shared information about female rappers they approved of rather than questioning Cardi B. that would have been more helpful.  I'm going to share this conversation with them.  Hopefully the will chime in...

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24 minutes ago, Troy said:

No where did you read that I want to deny women their agency--I want them to reclaim it!  What I'm saying is that there needs to be standards, and we can't allow corporations to make them for us. Mel do you disagree with that sentiment?

 

Some black women never lost their agency and others reclaimed theirs when slavery ended.   As I've written, corporations only dictate a dress code for their offices.  You deciding a standard for black women - means you want them to lose their agency. I'm not understanding why you're having a difficult time with this concept. 

Black women not dressing to fit your standards, is your personal problem. 


As for 44 % work force vs labor participation; OK very good.  At least you did your own digging for a change, even though I supplied the data.  It could be 44% as I read initially but for now we've both used DOL stats so we're beholden to their interpretation of the figures.  

However,  I added the workforce statistic,  the voting statistic, (both that you picked apart and removed the focus of my argument) and the business ownership statistic to make the point that black women are doing a lot of things besides entertainment. You (or was it educate2 empower) chose to label  all black women  by one woman  and what she wears at her workplace.  Seriously, Troy,  the fact that you don't label black men by one black male entertainer is another reason why I take issue with this particular rant. 

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This is fascinating.  I used the very source if the data you supplied and now you call into question the very veracity of the information, as if it is open to different interpretation.  Mel you made a mistake, we all do it, we are human.  

 

As far as the voter stat you cited, saying 94% of Black women voted for HIllary, this too would have occurred to me to be obviously wrong.  But my motivation was more about getting at the truth.  So of course I have to examine and understand your assumptions before looking or even considering your conclusions.

 

Mel I never made a declaration of what the standard should be.  I saying there should be standards.  You insist on making this about my personal standards.  But you will not find them as I never tired to define any, despite your attempt so say I have and am trying to impose them on others.

 

If you want to construe my saying that there should be a standard, and not one defined by Sony, into me wanted into take away Black women's agency.  Then I don't know what else to say.

 

Well Mel, I actually do take issue with the way Black male rappers are portrayed too.  But the email was about Cardi B.  I have to believe that you know in your heart of hearts that when I say we should have standards I'm not excluding Black men.  Here too I'm surprised you would suggest otherwise. 

 

 

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25 minutes ago, Troy said:

You insist on making this about my personal standards.  But you will not find them as I never tired to define any, despite your attempt so say I have and am trying to impose them on others.


Every time you open your mouth to say what the dress code shouldn't be - you are defining a standard.  

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Mel has a point with the standards. Feminist had this issue regarding pornography/erotica. Pat Califia was Lesbian Leather Dyke who wrote a book of intense sexual stories. I remember one was about a Lesbian being dominated sexually. Somrtimes with or without consent.

 

Some feminist went after he and Suzie Sexbright. Saying it was unacceptable. They said feminism us about a woman deciding for Themselves. And there's no feeedom if the matriarchy instead if the patriarchy is deciding.

 

Personally I am uncomfortable in projecting mt standards an opinions on others. Although  I am not immune to doing so.

 

Although some of the disagreementay be more personal or filtered through the personality than rational. Perhaps it is more frustration than emotion. 

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1 hour ago, Troy said:

Ok then, please describe exactly what standard I'm trying to impose @Mel Hopkins.

 

19 hours ago, Troy said:

The women dressed like adults

 

16 hours ago, Troy said:

I also disagree with what is acceptable dress.  There is a time and place for everything,

 

On 9/27/2017 at 7:49 AM, Troy said:

Of course there will many who will argue that men have no say on the matter. This is the case of a powerful woman freely exhibiting her sexuality, exercising her freedom of speech, and making money. There is no adverse impact on culture

 

Black women are either purveyors of black culture; or are Black women expected to preserve a culture that make men comfortable?  

1 hour ago, Delano said:

there's no freedom if the matriarchy instead of the patriarchy is deciding.

 

@Delano   THIS ^

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1 hour ago, Delano said:

Hey Mel 

Not certain what you mean

@Delano  your quote  "there's no freedom if the matriarchy instead of the patriarchy is deciding." is right on point.   

Freedom is the key - - 

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@Troyi know nothing about percentages and statistics about black women, but when it comes to other particulars of the social media and the recording industry,  i have a problem with you stating your beliefs as facts. You declare that FaceBook made politics worse then they previously were.  You assert that music companies control  black style, and you have decided that blacks have no culture. Who says all these things are true?  Is anecdotal evidence a factor?  You just throw these assertions out there as facts  because they are your gospel.  Corporate America is your nemesis,  and you see everything through the lens of your experience with it. You can't get past this arbitrary mind-set that has not updated itself. Currently, black musical artists have more control over their careers and images.  I don't think social media does  distort people's politics more than, say, newspapers did before FaceBook came along.  I think black folks do still have a unique, multi-faceted culture.  

 

You are like me when it comes to this country.  I attribute most black problems to America's racism. People have difficulty in trying to change my mind about this because this notion is entrenched in my psyche.   There are generalizations in regard to my accusations about America, but i brush them aside.  You are the same way when it comes to corporate America.  I'm too old to change.  But there's still a chance for you to not be so controlled by the resentment against what you have made a scapegoat -  a faceless entity about whom you drone a litany of offenses  that you feel you don't have to back up with source and facts. Somewhere between your conclusions and my observations is the truth.   

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Cynique Troy can be very opionated and does sometime make pronouncements or edicts. 

 

Troy is fighting a Goliath that is almost impenetrable. I understand expending huge amounts and not being compensated properly. I don't feel itbis as all consuming though. 

Sometimes though Troy i believe your principles blind you and in your honest desire ti improve the world. You make statements that aren't quite square with the facts. 

I am referring predominantly ti our discussion on Climate Change. 

 

Mel you are quite goid with your facts.  Although your  percentages re Black women seem to large. And whike yiu did concede yhe point re Black women voting.  It apoarently has fallen short in Troy's opinion. 

 

There's an interesting dynamic among the three of you.  Which is easier ti see not being in the conversation. 

 

Cynique you see Troy as far more narrow minded then he is. He can be strongly opinionated and sometimes his argument lacks logic or reason. 

 

Troy are you missing Pioneer in this argument, cause it seems as though you're channeling him.

 

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1 hour ago, Delano said:

Mel you are quite goid with your facts.  Although your  percentages re Black women seem to large. And whike yiu did concede yhe point re Black women voting.  It apoarently has fallen short in Troy's opinion

 

@Delano,  - Yep.  I got a little sloppy in my wording and I might as well have been strutting across the stage in my hooker-whore dress with the Scarlet A across the chest. :P

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4 hours ago, Delano said:

Cynique you see Troy as far more narrow minded then he is. He can be strongly opinionated and sometimes his argument lacks logic or reason. 

i don't think Troy is narrow-minded.  And everybody on this board is strongly opinionated.  That's how we roll around here.  Bottom line Troy is a decent, very intelligent  personable good guy who doesn't have to answer to anybody.   He's the HNIC of this forum. ;):D 

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18 hours ago, Mel Hopkins said:

 

@Delano,  - Yep.  I got a little sloppy in my wording and I might as well have been strutting across the stage in my hooker-whore dress with the Scarlet A across the chest. :P

Scarlet A?

15 hours ago, Cynique said:

  He's the HNIC of this forum. ;):D 

And the ABC.

Mel your use of language is both evocative and provocative. 

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Wow this is a such a meaty subject and so many places to comment  don't know where to begin :-)

 

Del you gave Mel quite a bit of latitude with the stats she expressed, I know you would not have been nearly as understanding with me ;-)

 

Cynique, sure I made declarative statements, but they were supported by ample evidence.  But seemingly social media's impact on the election is like climate change: There can be plenty of evidence, but that is of no consequence as people will only believe what they want to believe. 

 

The current social science tells us that people are moved by emotions not wonk.  My challenge is that I tend to explain with data, facts, and evidence, which does not move people. 

 

Cynique I appreciate the kind words, but I hope you and everybody else think of this forum as much yours as mine.  Sure you don't have to worry about the maintenance, the spammers, or expense, but as far as the opinions you all express I trust you all feel free to say what you want. At the same time, I trust folks are introduced to different ideas and perspectives.  I know I have been.

 

The bottom line as I've said a number of times.  There must be standards, that people generally agree upon, for there to be a cohesive society. We can argue about what those standard might be, but absence any standard means we are in trouble.

 

I also believe that we as a people have given our agency to corporations.  Whatever we create is taken from us and perverted.  Hip-Hop is a prime example.  

 

Finally, since Cardi B. is the top female rapper today (based upon her fantastically successful single), she represents the pinnacle of the musical form right now and perhaps represents the aspirations of many young girls, as a result. Now some of you all may like that--fine.  But understand we (Black people) did not put her there.  Because we don't choose who is celebrated we can not be served very well.

 

We do not choose which musicians are elevated, we do not choose who are leaders, we do not choice are spokes people. We do not set our own agenda.  Today the Colin K fiasco is now about 45 and respecting the flag and a Cardi B is out top rapper...

 

Collectively we can be pretty weak sometimes and it is frustrating that we don't recognize it.

 

 

 

 

 

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Troy you are 100% right, what we have here is yet another Nicki Minaj.

Another.....not Black but close...woman who has incorporated parts of Black ghetto culture and mannerisms and is being promoted by the media to the Black community and especially to young Black girls as a role model.

Notice a pattern?

Almost all of these female rap and "pop" stars that they're promoting as  "Black" are NOT actually Black....or if they are have only TRACE amounts of Black blood flowing through their veins.

I think the racists in the entertainment industry are doing this on purpose to RUIN the self esteem of REAL Black girls (meaning the majority who fit the phenotypical features) by constantly promoting women who they can never look like as the very women they should aspire to look like and be like.

Another problem if you'll notice is that they push these so-called "Black" artists to act in wild, brutish, thuggish behavior as part of their persona.

 

Look at a Taylor Swift video and see if she's cussing and fighting and acting vulgar.

White female artists are encouraged to be feminine and sexy and often "innocent", but Black female artists are expected to be loud, boisterous, violent, cussing, and in general just crazy as hell.

They do this to encourage the young Black girls who look up to them to behave in this manner.

Then you wonder why so many girls are fighting and beating on eachother in schools and out in the streets....wonder why they are so crazy and violent.

The music is encouraging them to be that way by telling them that's how they SHOULD be.

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@Troy  Are your daughters influenced by Nicki Minaj and Cardi B? None of the young women in my family are. Believe it or not there are millions of black women who can separate fantasy from  reality.  They can watch and enjoy these performers without emulating them in their day to day lives.  Of course many others do, but they know how to be "thots" on their own.  They're who the entertainers are emulating.    This rhetoric that you and Pioneer are dispensing is the same ol-same ol people have been spouting since the 1980 videos with half naked booty-shakin background dancers. Everybody knows that record companies are manipulative and mostly concerned about their bottom lines But i still think  black tastes are geared to rather than dictated by corporations, who just give fans what they already like and what  is trending in black clubs.  @Pioneer1Most young sistas  don't relate to white "Becky's" like Taylor Swift because she just isn't their cup of tea.They, instead, prefer artists like  Alicia Keyes and Rihanna and Jennifer Hudson, who represent a different genre and have huge followings.  Furthermore, white Katie Perry  and Miley Cyrus' performances and lyrics are very edgy, vulgar and anything but wholesome. Or, are black girls anymore corrupted  than the white teen-aged girls texting nudies of themselves to their high school boyfriends.  I don't know why an old lady like me has to remind  you guys that this is 2017.  

 

 BTW, Troy, no surprise that  i don't think Colin Kaepernick's protest is a "fiasco".  It has opened up a whole can of worms and ripped the lid off of white America's blind loyalty to a flag that is "exclusive" rather than "inclusive". Kaepernick's original protest against police brutality cannot be separated from all of the other issues that have arisen because they are all at the root of racism in a country whose flag does not represent justice and equality for all. Just ask Puerto Rico! The knee-bending is, of course, dividing the country, but it time for the boat to be rocked and for the chips to fall where they may. 

 

And what's so bad about the NFL being put on the hot seat? This organization where 90 percent of the players are black gladiators who have been bought, sold, and traded like chattel, - highly paid employees entertaining white spectators, but never allowed a stake in the ownership ranks.  Neither the NFL or NBA  deserve to be protected or exonerated. 

 

Well, this board is back to business as usual.  Conflicting opinions.  <_< 

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Cynique

 

HOLD UP!

What the hell does an....80 SOMETHING....year old woman know about "thot"???


Lol....
Have you been eavesdropping on your grandchildren's conversations or something????


They, instead, prefer artists like Alicia Keyes and Rihanna and Jennifer Hudson, who represent a different genre and have huge followings.

 

And THESE artists I have absolutely no problem with.
These are AfroAmerican women who carry themselves in a respectable and feminine manner.

But the difference is Black people CHOSE these artists based on their talents, where as people like Cardi and Nicki are CHOSEN FOR Black people by racist White executives.

 

Furthermore, white performance like Katie Perry and Miley Cyrus' performances and lyrics are very edgy, vulgar and anything but whole


I was actually thinking about Miley and Lady Gaga when I posted my comments.
However even as sexual and "nasty" as they make White female artists appear, they still promote their femininity as opposed to making them seem violent and "gangster" as they do with so many Black female artists.

 

 


Or, are black girls anymore corrupted than the white teen-aged girls texting nudies of themselves to their high school boyfriends


I'm not speaking for anyone else on this issue because my ideas of sexuality are slightly different than most.
I don't have a problem girls sending sexy texts of themselves to BOYS.

Many if not most Black people have a problem with the rampant sexuality and promiscuity being promoted in music today but I don't....I think it's just nature.

It's not the sexuality that's the problem, it's the boyish behavior, the violence, the crudeness and rudeness that so many girls are being encouraged to behave as that I consider the biggest problem.

In other words, I don't have a problem with a girl being the sexist GIRL she can be....it's when she starts acting like a BOY that it becomes a problem in my view.

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You are right @Cynique , my daughters do not present as if they are heavily influenced by Cardi B. But they had a good education, decent parents, both of whom are college graduates, and did not grow up impoverished, in a ghetto environment.  I doubt any of the women in the family for which you are the matriarch would look to Cardi B, as a role model... they have you.   But again, you have to get out of your bubble and consider the wider world.

 

Have you ever been to a Black strip club, or any of the after hours spots common in many cities?  If you ever spent more than 5 minutes interacting with people in the 'hood, I think you would feel differently.  Again, on this issue, continue to believe what you like Cynique, but reality is plainly different.

 

I have not even discussed the impact of the Cardi B. archetype on Black boys...

 

Well we can debate whether the word "fiasco" is appropriate.  But you'd have to admit the focus of Colin's original intent has changed--because he never had an ounce of control.  This is obvious because the NFL ripped his platform away and 45 has taken the media's attention.

 

As far as "ripping the lid" of the country's loyalty to the flag, that is a bit hyperbolic don't you think?  Every war the U.S. has ever fought has demonstrated that. Have you been checking out Burn's documentary on the Vietnam War?

 

Yeah @Pioneer1, yeah colorism is always an issue, as well has the hair, and the voluptuous physiques.  If does not seem to matter very much what the men look like, so long as they resent like teenage thugs and use the N-word liberally and gratuitously on the stage--as evidenced by the collection of clips in videos above.  

 

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@TroyYou assume i don't know about the hood and what's going on in the clubs. I don't live in a bubble because, unlike you, i've always been  interested in learning a little bit about a lot of things and over the years i've been in circumstances to do this. 

 

i grew up in what was the black neighborhood of a white town  that was a true cross section of the country at large. I associated with just as many rough kids as refined ones.  i was never a snob because i had a taste for what was edgy.  i worked at the Post Office for almost 30 years.  So don't tell me i don't know about common black people. When my husband was away serving in the Air Force, i lived down the street from an American Legion hall, a raunchy little hole in the wall that couldn't  have been more typical of nitty gritty black night life. Amid a bevy of circulating hoochie mamas, I'd sit at the bar smoking Pall Malls and let "down-to-earth" niggas buy me drinks and engage me in interesting conversations before i observed my curfew and made my way back home to my empty  bed.  Even to this day, i will occasionally venture out with my daughter to a hot spot, just to observe the scene. 

 

I've mentioned that i had a 22-year old grandson killed in a drive-by because he got too intrigued with the street life. i may have mentioned that i have another Porshe-driving grandson who is a music producer making big bucks supplying beats for rappers, as well as background music for commercials.  One of my granddaughters  just entered the University of Indiana on a scholarship. Another one, who is gay, works as a sheriff's deputy.  i talk all the time about my ghetto, lil Wayne-loving grandson who keeps me abreast of what's going on in Baby Mama/Baby Daddy land.( And, yes, Pioneer, he's the one who introduced me to the word "thot".)

 

And then there are my children: one son who is  preacher, another who is a weed-smoking, book-reading working class stud, the youngest one a comic book publisher. There's my upwardly mobile account exec daughter, my adventurous older one who relies on Jesus to keep her safe. i also have  a niece who is a TV anchor woman in Chicago, a nephew who was a feature editor of EBONY magazine. You name it. My life is full of diversity!   ( And , yes, I  also watch TMZ to get the lowdown on the entertainment scene, a  program which enjoys the reputation of being  very reliable in its sources and rumor debunking.)  So don't blow me off as living in a bubble when you tune out everything about the music scene except what you want to believe. 

 

 Before you started mansplaining  this aspect, i said that  music reflects what trending in the black clubs, stating further that artists pick up on this and transform it into music.  That's what goes on in with rap music, which is just one venue in the spectrum of black music.  You seem unable to get past the idea that just as the black community is not monolithic in its values and life style, neither is black music. Not every young black person is mesmerized by Rap. Many are able to like this music without living it. Rap is what it is.  it's not going anywhere.  And the millennial discretionary black and bi-racial children of the black middleclass will expediently follow in their parents' footsteps, while the black underclass will continue to enjoy themselves, twerking down at the club between dodging bullets. Get out of your bubble and deal with this.   And oh, yes, there is currently a revival of natural hair styles trending in black culture.  Is this something the white corporate world is dictating? :o

 

Obviously you and i will never agree on Colin Kaepernick so it should come as no surprise that i reject your POV about him just as you dismiss mine. Back in the 1960s, the Vietnam war inspired anti-establishment protests by the counter-culture community of hippies, college students and white liberals, and a lot of this was provoked by the profiteering of the military industrial complex as well as American hegemony   Bending the knee is about exposing the intrinsic racism in patriotism,  a ubiquitous racism  that exists in the slave trade of the NFL and NBA, as well as police brutality with its undertones of white supremacy. They're all a part of the same matrix.   So there is a difference in what the bending the knee demonstration has ripped the lid off of. It's a black thing.  And the great silent white majority can't abide niggas messin' with their beloved  striped flag with its ugly checkered history. If nothing else emerges from demonstrations by those who 45 calls "sonofabitches', it will become clear that their lives don't matter, and black folks just have to learn to live with this, and sometimes die because of it.   

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3 hours ago, Cynique said:

i worked at the Post Office for almost 30 years.  So don't tell me i don't know about common black people.

 

Cynique this statement right there tells me you have not clue what I'm talking about.  Someone with a job at the post office was doing well when I was a kid, those families left the projects and tenements and brought homes in where white people lived (thought whites ultimately fled those communities).

 

Postal workers had cars and full refrigerators. The kids wore the latest fashions and their families went to Disney.  You are telling me you work in the post office while your husband worked too--back in a time when one of your jobs could have supported the entire family.  No Cynique, I really don't think you truly know what poverty is.  You should be glad though, no one should ever have to see this or even experience it.

 

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@TroyWell,  once again, we are on different wave lengths.The post office where i was employed  during the late 60s up to the mid-90s was where people from all classes worked, and this included, hard-drinkin, drug-takin street people, - sly skeezers and slick playas.  To me, Rap, the subject we're discussing,  is about the street life and all of its hustle and grit -  a spin-off of hip hop and its "keepin it real" credo.  It's not about poverty per se.  It's about the way people shrewdly dealt with it, the kind of action "street" people are familiar with.  Are rap videos about poverty?  They appeal to people who live in the inner-cities, because they identify with the tawdry dangerous side of it. 

 

 And need i remind you that white kids also listened to this music, living vicariously through it.  Black college kids listen to it, too,  without emulating it.  Also running concurrently with Rap's popularity were Prince and Michael Jackson, Sade and Maxwell, Boyz to Men and TLC.  This is what the many-faceted  music world is about. Record companies making money. Recording artists gaining fame. And the beat goes on... 

 

i am not "enamoured" with Kaepernick but I am compatible with what he is protesting.  You should know by now how disenchanted i am with amerika and the racism and hypocrisy which that deceptive flag and  jive-ass anthem symbolize.   Jesse Jackson and Farrakhan  are from another era.  Their day has passed.  i need fresh blood to feed my  militancy.  

 

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Cynique you were the one who brought up the post office.  It is interesting you would characterize postal workers as "hard-drinkin, drug-takin street people" just to make a point.

 

Of course Hip-hop is about poverty.  While it is not limited to poverty that is where it comes from, making away out of no way.  You probably don't remember rap before "the suits" took it over, but I suggest you check out songs the "The Message."  The other crap, like Cardi B, was amped up and exploited by corporations.

 

On 10/2/2017 at 8:16 PM, Cynique said:

And need i remind you that white kids also listened to this music

 

BIngo! Yes, of course white folks get a distorted message of what Blackness is, and are even more susceptible to it because They are less likely to be exposed to counter images.  Their racist prejudice is reinforced and exaggerated.  Is it any wonder they shoot us with little provocation.  All of this is related...

 

You don't have to be young to be militant.  And young militants need guidance, and an understanding of history, which they can get from elders, not social media.

 

Cynique, my comments were not against what Colin was protesting (what was it again?).  My issue was that media selected him and his agenda and brought him to the fore as our leader.  Even before he was shut down by the NFL and his message was co opted by 45, we could easily see that coming, because he does not have a platform or even a coherent strategy.  Colin's kneeling and sitting was a just an act, but the media made it so much more.  Again Colin's role in activism may evolve and develop, but this will take time.  Meanwhile the media will do what it always does; move on to the next thing.

 

 

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@Troy i still say we are not on the same wave length.  Of course i brought up the post office because its work force is such a broad cross section of the black populace.   Why wouldn't i inject it into the point i was making  about my not being in a bubble when it came to the seamy street life that is a part of the Rap fabric.   My exposure to Rap goes back to the Last Poets.  i never got deep into it because my taste leans toward other forms of music.   In regard to your point, It's never been any secret that rappers sprang from an environment of poverty, or that record companies saw the potential for profit by marketing their "art-imitating-life" music. Bottom line,  young people of all races and classes got in sync with the cadence of its spits and the vibe of its rhymes.  Why did they do this?  Maybe precisely because  they were young people.  And they were  bored with their monotonous lives. Who knows?  Time may or not bring change.  

 

Do you know for sure everything you say about Kaepernick is authentic?    Yes, the media contributed to things rocketing out of proportion.  For this i thank them.  and i thank him for creating chaos.  Because order only benefits the system.   

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A lot of interesting POVs here but based on our (Educate2Empower) monitoring of the entertainment industry over the past 15+ years, it's clear that those in power WANT the image of Blacks to be just as it is today. No empowerment on a global scale. We look like fools overall. Yes, many in the entertainment industry as artists appear to be making money. But what are most doing with it and encouraging others to do with it? You got - spend, spend, spend. Very little push to build our communities, our schools, our entrepreneurial ventures, our businesses, etc. The industry's promotion of Cardi B types is BY DESIGN because that's the language that keeps Black women weak ("money moves" like how she's spitting it, mean very little in the big picture, especially with all the F, B, N, P, H words she's using all throughout the song). Do you really think Blacks in general - and Black women in particular - are coming through with an image of educated, powerful, and empowered with that song?!? We're not - we're not supposed to - and that's BY DESIGN!

 

@Mel Hopkins talks about the success of Black women and some of it is true but if we can't COLLECTIVELY (with group power) get a better image out there, then what power is there really? Are our schools flourishing with all of these women she speaks of doing their thing? Are our Black kids getting a "helluva" education out here with all of these people who are doing their thing (or shall I say "making money moves")? Let's deal with what and how we're doing COLLECTIVELY? Right now, the record industry, including the companies that control what gets radio airplay, are the ones who are basically dictating what image gets out. The Cardi Bs, Jay-Zs, Kanyes, Rick Rosses, Lil Waynes, Drakes, etc. are all BY DESIGN because they represent no threat to the establishment with the music they put out and that's ALLOWED to go global. Really tune into what the lyrics are saying. The E2E video posted in this thread ("The N-Word's Multi-Layered Power Structure") touches on it.

 

Unfortunately, we have our elders such as @Cynique blowing up the n-word too and that's been part of the problem with the global escalation of this derogatory racial slur. Whose advantage does it work to ultimately to have Black folks being programmed while running around calling ourselves Ns all day, everyday and jamming to it at parties, walking down the street with Beats headphones, while driving, etc.? Certainly not ours.

 

Anyhow, how we progress COLLECTIVELY and what we gain COLLECTIVELY is what matters. One group of us doing well and a handful of entertainers making money (or "money moves") will NEVER make a successful group of people who are empowered and really running things within their communities. We've got a ways to go but if we really pulled it all together and stopped standing for/defending nonsense, then it would take no time to re-route things where it's heading to COLLECTIVE success.

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@E. Marie LambertYou're overlooking TV.  There are all kinds  of programs aired on it, showing black people in roles that aren't negative. You're one of these self-appointed reformers who think blacks should be monolithic, tailored to an image you want to dictate.  The black community is and always will be diverse and unique .  We are not clay, waiting to be molded by do-gooders or pawns invented by white corporations.   We are originals who are imitated just as much as we emulate.   The  hip-hop/rap nation spawned by urban innercities is what it is; an edgy, ghetto-fabulous  sub culture, and all the lecturing in the world is not going to make it miraculously vanish.:o

 

Plus, you act as though rebel elements don't exist in other ethnicities. Outcasts of every stripe make up the crazy quilt of society.   That's what reality is all about in an imperfect world. You dismiss what Mel says because it's incompatible with your agenda. But what she claims does have substance inasmuch as she speaks from experience. You are apparently on a mission, and good luck in your goals couched in the tired ol patented  rhetoric that has never materialized  because the black race is too fluid.  But the cream does rise to the top; that's the best you can hope for.   Meanwhile, this elder will continue to use the word "nigga" as I see fit.  I offer no  apology for something I've been doin all my life,  just like I've been listening to  your empty  "formula for success" for  at least 65 years.  'Even believed in it once. But, - press on and pardon me if I've become jaded.      

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@Educate2Empower  I don't know much about you so I don't want to assume anything. If I get it wrong, charge it to my responding to your words.

First, as one who has traveled the world, and not just the tourist parts either, globally, people recognize Hip Hop as entertainment.  Most young people, globally and here at home, support Hip Hop because, as @Cynique mentioned, it's edgy.   

 

As for Hip Hop or emcees dictating our individual style via corporate whims; I was born and raised in New York, the fashion runway of the world; reported news in the Ohio Valley, where I lived for 10 years; moved to Illinois and worked in Chicago, where most of our work was in the predominately black neighborhoods; and my next job there, took me all over the world.  I can say, with full confidence, no one dressed like they were spitting rhymes in a video or on stage.   Well, I went to a few concerts in Chicago, and there's a segment of the black culture that dress like Superfly of the 70s but that was the extent of the costuming.  

The rest of the world and even most of us here in America separate entertainment from daily life.   If we mimic any type of dress, it's what we see our peers wear.   It's a tribal thing.  

 

Now, when you speak of "collectively", I'm not sure what you mean.  

 

Collectively, most us work to make our lives better and better for our children.  Individually, we seek to contribute to the world what we ourselves desire.   Good, bad or indifferent - we give what we desire.   

It is clear, you represent the world you live and I represent the world I live in. 

 

I hadn't noticed Cardi B before Troy posted here in the forum.  My daughters never mentioned her. They are too busy making their mark. So, it's not an age thing, either.    For the record, Cardi B is contractor of corporate America.  She's not employed by a record company therefore, she is not a representative of corporate America. She represents herself.  Just because she's black doesn't make her an influencer of black women either.   


Corporate America, Starbucks, specifically, just named Rosalind Brewer, (former CEO of Sam's Club) as their COO ... She's a graduate of Spelman College, a college for women, (mostly black women)

She is CORPORATE AMERICA... And she definitely no one's fool.  Ms. Brewer provides a pleasing image for Corporate America.   Or did you not notice her?

starbucks_rosaland_090617_01.jpg

Here's the crux;  my daughters are millennials;  and none of them listen to the radio.  In fact, most millennials don't listen to the radio... when African Americans listen to music Nielsen's stats indicate it looks like this 

 

AFRICAN-AMERICANS' MUSICAL PREFERENCES

Blacks demonstrate a strong preference for the genres of music they helped to create and have been closely associated with for decades.

african-american-genres.png


But hell, millennials don't even buy music.  They stream their music.   I stream music!

If the group/audience you're dealing with is under the  spell of corporate media; chances are Cardi b is the least of their problems. 

Maybe they don't have access to the outside world. 

If so, the tragedy is they're left behind.   

 

There are many organizations, such as YWCA, Boys and Girls Club,  local libraries and individuals to help folks get out of the proverbial cave.   

Getting access to outside world for those left behind is one goal I think most of us can get behind, collectively. 

Edited by Mel Hopkins
clarity and to add a graph
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@Mel Hopkins I definitely appreciate your spirit of keeping the positive alive! But having plenty of corporate CEOs, educators, upper management executives, etc. does not take away from the fact that COLLECTIVELY we aren't striving as we could be because too many in certain positions don't want to risk what they've gained to take on the image pushed globally through music. Heck, many don't even want to demand more from schools (curriculum in particular) when we are paying property taxes for the school systems our children are attending. As for the music, if you take a look at Billboard magazine charts, long ago they combined R&B and Hip Hop and now you mostly see the Top 20 filled with hip hop that uses foul language, promotes violence and materialism, and is often misogynistic. Again, all BY DESIGN. As I'm sure you've heard, hip hop is now considered the top genre in terms of sales but have you read the lyrics? Again, all BY DESIGN. Young people can't even go to a school dance without hearing Black males use the n-word (even if it's "blocked" out all students know what the real lyrics are - they Google/YouTube it). I've got young people in my life as well and they deal with this issue on a constant basis in some form.

 

Nevertheless, if those of us in positions of power and/or importance can do more COLLECTIVELY to empower ourselves as a group, we will definitely be a powerhouse. Right now, we're puppets because we don't claim our power because we don't really know how. No other group of people allows a derogatory racial slur to be promoted globally because it doesn't strengthen the group. The image of your females carry weight too and when there's an imbalance, a price will be paid.

 

Thanks for the interaction and promoting the positive in us. People of African descent definitely have a history of doing amazing things for this world so we'll be back!

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@Educate2Empower, thanks for contributing to the conversation.  It is not easy to expose one's opinions, and work to strong opposition and critique. So again thanks.

 

Obviously, I'm more in your camp as it relates to these issues.  I gather from your response that you are from New York City.  I still live just a couple of blocks from the housing project I grew up in.  Virtually everyone in my situation left for the burbs, or another city long ago.  Perhaps it is the long term experience with a community that informs our beliefs.

 

I also live in suburban Tampa, which is diametrically opposed to Harlem, New York in many ways. That stark contrast helps me see things a bit differently than most.

 

Obviously Cardi B's presentation is "by design."  All that is really left to debate is what is the motivation for this and does it serve us collectively.  As you can see there is disagreement on whether the Cardi B's of the music industry even have an adverse impact on us or how we are perceived.

 

Of course if we, as a people, cannot agree that there is a problem, the motivation is largely moot, because we won't do anything about it.

 

Like @Mel Hopkins, I never heard of Cardi B. she is completely outside my scope of personal influence. The same goes for my kids.  We know there are many folks who are largely immune the negative images promulgated by record executives.  I can be amused by a Snoop Dogg without feeling the pressure to behave like him.

 

But again I'm not talking about me, Mel, Cynique or others like us.  I'm talking about the some of the students I've taught,  many of my neighbors, the people I grew up with, and even family.  Who are not so immune to these influences.  And given the power of social media, may be even more influenced than ever before.

 

I'm talking about the people who know full well who Cardi B. is and idolize her.  The people that helped propel her to the top of the charts. These people are not very likely to know who a Rosalind Brewer is, much less be influenced by her success...

 

I'm not suggesting we lay all the blame of Black dysfunction at the feet of Sony, but they are part of the problem --despite all the counter images like COO Brewer (quite an apropos name).

 

Maybe a better strategy would be to ignore the perceived negative influences of a Cardi B. and focus on the positive ones like Ms. Brewer.  

 

Personally try both approaches but I can tell you this: People virtually never react when I share something positive and almost always react when I share something negative.  Neither approach seems effective at changing minds or helping folks to see an alternative perspective. Only personal experience seems to do that. 

 

Given most of us are not open to different experiences sometimes my efforts seem pointless, until you learn you've touched someone in a positive and it makes all of this worthwhile :)

 

Good luck and continue to educate to empower us all.

 

 

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