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End of Poverty?


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{sighs with exasperation} @Pioneer1 The dictionary just describes how the race is used. It is not a scientific definition. 

 

Wikipedia is not the best sources of information, but if you read the entire document, you will see the evolution of the word over time and across cultures.  It also describes how the science has evolved leading to the knowledge that race is purely a social construct.  There is no basis in our genetics to allow us to categorize us into "races."  

 

All of this information is in the document that YOU referenced Pioneer.  It is amazing how people can read a document and come away with completely difference conclusions.  But why am I surprised people do this with the Bible, and Cynique can do the with a Merrian Webster article ;)

 

Now I know old habits die hard, and I have had to change my thinking in race too.  Dude there is only once human race. 

 

I know stubborn and uninformed people will continue say brown skinned people are in the Black race and pink people are in the white race.  They will continue to apply all of the racial stereotypes that go with the categorization (i.e. people whose eyes don't have the epicanthic fold are better at math) long after we are gone...

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Troy

The dictions just describes how the roace is used it is not a scientific definition.


Lol....huh???



 

It also describes how the science has evolved leading to the knowledge that race is purely a social construct.


Marriage and the idea of "husbands" and "wives" are also social constructs.
But they're also  REALITY.

Just because something is a social construct, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.




Wikipedia is not the best sources of information, but if you read the entire document, you will see the evolution of the word over time and across cultures. It also describes how the science has evolved leading to the knowledge that race is purely a social construct. There is no basis in our genetics to allow us to categorize us into "races."

All of this information is in the document that YOU referenced Pioneer. It is amazing how people can read a document and come away with completely difference conclusions


The only things I needed to come away with from both Wikipedia and Merriam-Webster's dictionary were definitions to support my position on multiple races....and I did just that.

I've SHOWN you that the concept of race is a way to categorize humans.

Now whether racial categories are SOCIAL constructs or GENETIC constructs are irrelevant.


Categories are REAL.

They do EXIST....whether you agree with them or not.


Now that I've I've proven my case on the reality and existence of racial categories among human beings, perhaps we can get back to discussion the causes of poverty.....lol.

 

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Sorry about the typos. I corrected the sentence. 

 

I'm not arguing that the social construct is not real.  I'm arguing it is based upon outdated information.

 

Social constructs do not have to be, and usually are not, based upon genetics -- in fact, that is what makes them social constructs.  For example, the fact the Barack Obama is "Black" and not white is social construct, made upon by man with no basis in genetics.  

 

It seems race is an important aspect of poverty as it relates to the so called Black man.  White folks used "race" to justify turning another human being into chattel.  Since Black people were of an inferior race, they could be lumped in with other animals like hogs and mules, 'cept it was cool to have sex with them to make more...

 

@Pioneer1, do you think white folks were justified in the beliefs that the so called Black race was inferior? It seems to me if you believe white people and Black people belong to different races, then is is fair to assume that those differences can make one race superior to the other.

 

Since white people dominate the planet win, all the Noble prizes for science, and Black folks can't seem to earn as much money, stay out of jail, or live as long as white folks, wouldn't it be fair to assume that white people are indeed superior?  It seems most of our most successful Black men marry white women.  Maybe you are right Pioneer, maybe white folks are a different and superior race.  This is a perfectly logical conclusion given your understanding of "race."

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Troy
 

do you think white folks were justified in the beliefs that the so called Black race was inferior? It seems to me if you believe white people and Black people belong to different races, then is is fair to assume that those differences can make one race superior to the other.
 

Since white people dominate the planet win, all the Noble prizes for science, and Black folks can't seem to earn as much money, stay out of jail, or live as long as white folks, wouldn't it be fair to assume that white people are indeed superior? It seems most of our most successful Black men marry white women. Maybe you are right Pioneer, maybe white folks are a different and superior race. This is a perfectly logical conclusion given your understanding of "race."


To me, terms like "superior" and "inferior" must be qualified with a particular SUBJECT.
Meaning......

You can't just say you're superior....and leave it at that.
You have to describe what you're superior AT.

Superior in school?
Superior in morals?
Superior genetically?
Superior in sports?
Superior at practicine medicine?

We first have to define WHERE a person is claiming superior or inferior in before making a comparison.

But to answer your question......

I believe that many of the Whites who believe Black people are INTELLECTUALLY inferior are absolutely justified in that belief!

I didn't say it was true....I said they were JUSTIFIED in BELIVING it based on what they've seen in society.

What have Black people as a group ACCOMPLISHED as compared to Whites as a group?

Most normal minded White people in the United States who are able to observe the Black race and White race not just from what they've been taught in history but what they're seeing today in the media as well as what they're seeing on the streets of America today.....how could they see BOTH races as intellectually equal?

What major cities are Black people building?
What type of military weapons are Black people developing?
How many major financial institutions do Black people own?
When Black people get sick.....who's hospitals do they go to....ours or White people's?


So as far as the BELIEFS of intellectual superiority go, ofcourse many Whites are justified in almost ASSUMING that they are smarter as a race.

If you wanted to challenge that belief, how many things could you point to that we have accomplished to shut them down?


You won't catch me arguing that White people (as a group) AREN'T smart.

Hell, if a handful of people manage to take over the entire planet.....DUHH....they ain't stupid, lol.

But that doesn't mean Black people can't improve ourselves and our standing in the world with effort and organization.

Asians were in similar condition as Black people a few centuries ago but they managed to organize themselves into a major world power on several fronts.

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So @Pioneer1 I'll take that to mean "yes." 

 

This is why eliminating racial attitudes (racism, prejudice, bigotry) will take a very long time.  First, folks, both Black and white, who think like you have to die out and stop spreading this kind of thinking.

 

2 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

If you wanted to challenge that belief, how many things could you point to that we have accomplished to shut them down?

 

Man that would be easy. When white folks were living in caves and killing each other for food. Black people were building pyramids and universities that lasted not hundreds, but thousands of years. Everything the Greeks knew was derived from Africa. 

 

But that is not to say the Black people are superior, in fact white people come from Black people... we are one race of people.

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This whole discussion about race boils down to semantics, and like most of the arguments on this board, it is rife with "specious sophistry". Since  a blond blue-eyed Scandinavian and a black African and a yellow hued Japanese all look the same inside then, like dogs, humans can be categorized by breeds.  if the word "race" is interchangeable with the word "breed", then the argument dissipates.   When language becomes a barrier rather than a doorway, then resolution is locked out.  (Oxford dictionaries should consider inducting into its annals the word "breedism" if it ever becomes common usage.)  

 

"Cognitive dissonance" is a lot more prevalent than we realize. It's very difficult  to separate individuals from their dogmas.  Any attempt to do this is complicated by challenging and discrediting  the sources of those with whom a person is disagreeing.  We tend to believe that science is infallible in spite of how many scientific axioms have changed with the discovery of new data. We also become mesmerized by anecdotal evidence. In my search for the truth, it has  become increasingly evident that truth is relevant because there is a truth, and then there is the whole truth. 

 

Now pardon me while i return to fantasizing about my fellow human being pictured below. Wonder if he is descended from the Barbarians "living in caves and killing each other for food' while Egyptians were being conquered by Rome??? 

 

 

townsend.jpg.000fa0f82d977fd09d05d58d3d799126.jpg              :wub::rolleyes::P  

 

 

 

 

 

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@Cynique, yes this argument is about semantics, or rather what the word "race" means and how it should be used technically. 

 

To argue this is not about "facts" is a weak argument that can be made about anything.  @Delano, this is the argument that 45 and his ilk uses against the way news is reported, as in there are "alternative facts."  This is why we have so much more access to information but as a people we know and understand so much less.

 

"Breed" would actually be a better word to use than "race" in the way that @Pioneer1 is using it.  Siblings could be of different "breeds," but still be of the same human race.

 

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Troy

This is why eliminating racial attitudes (racism, prejudice, bigotry) will take a very long time. First, folks, both Black and white, who think like you have to die out and stop spreading this kind of thinking


Damn man....lol.
That's a heavy handed response.

Slavery in the Western Hemisphere was based on skin color and racial attitudes over 500 years ago.
The Hindu caste system in India was initially set up based upon skin color and that was over 3000 years ago!
Yet we're still facing the color issue today in 2017.

Do you seriously think sitting around waiting for people to "die out" and make way for new thought is the answer?



 

 

Man that would be easy. When white folks were living in caves and killing each other for food. Black people were building pyramids and universities that lasted not hundreds, but thousands of years. Everything the Greeks knew was derived from Africa.


That's ancient history bro.
As much as I believe that to be the case, the fact is NO HUMAN (that I know of) is still around from that time period to prove this to be the case.

What people see is TODAY.
Who's in charge and building great civilizations and new technology TODAY.

 

 

 

But that is not to say the Black people are superior, in fact white people come from Black people... we are one race of people.


If Whites came from Blacks (and I believe this to be true) then how can their be only ONE?
One and one is two.
You're describing TWO separate groups of people.
If a mother produces a child....then that is TWO people....not one.




 

 

 

 

Del

 

Domination is more about aggression than intelligence.

 

If domination is more about aggression than intelligence, why are so many violent criminals locked up and DOMINATED by less violent professionals such as lawyers and judges?


 

 

 


Cynique

Here's the man of YOUR dreams.............

 

Image result for ed sheeran

Ed Sheeran

And he can sing too.....lol.

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On 12/3/2017 at 4:17 AM, Troy said:

@Cynique, yes this argument is about semantics, or rather what the word "race" means and how it should be used technically. 

 

To argue this is not about "facts" is a weak argument that can be made about anything.  @Delano, this is the argument that 45 and his ilk uses against the way news is reported, as in there are "alternative facts."  This is why we have so much more access to information but as a people we know and understand so much less.

 

"Breed" would actually be a better word to use than "race" in the way that @Pioneer1 is using it.  Siblings could be of different "breeds," but still be of the same human race.

 

Look up the definition of the word semantics.Also look up facts then you will see that you are incorrect and my statement about facts stands. You seem to confuse your definitions of words with the standard meaning or you use only one definition. Unaware that a word can have more than one meaning. 

 

  Scientists use the scientific method to make observations, form hypotheses and gather evidence in an experiment aimed at supporting or contradicting a theory. ... Science is based on fact, not opinion or preferences. ... A theory is almost never proven, though a few theories do become scientific laws.

 

@Pioneer1 that's a good analogy and if you follow it's implication my statement still stands.

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Domination is about submission. I'll give you an example. Let's say you have the following types of people on a deserted island : an intelligent ,a spiritual an ethical , warriors .  Often might makes right .  There are a few ways to win an argument ; using emotions , logic , authorities or expert opinions , belittling and intimidation .

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@Pioneer1I displayed a specific picture and referred to the man in it as my "fantasy".  And, as usual, you endeavor to contradict a fact by offering a response that is both false and illogical except in your confused mind.  A perfect example of how your addled brain works. 

 

 

townsend.jpg.000fa0f82d977fd09d05d58d3d799126.jpg           

 

Yum, yum, fellow human being of another breed.  

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Del

 

Domination is about submission. I'll give you an example. Let's say you have the following types of people on a deserted island : an intelligent ,a spiritual an ethical , warriors . Often might makes right . There are a few ways to win an argument ; using emotions , logic , authorities or expert opinions , belittling and intimidation .


I would argue that domination takes on many forms, but ultimately more so than submission it's about CONTROL.

Submissions suggests a sort of surrender or reluctance to challenge an aggressor or authority.

But if a person is being dominated, they may not be submissive....they may actually be aggressive THEMSELVES constantly fighting their oppression.  But if they are being dominated, clearly the person who is dominating them has more control over them whether they are using brute force, intellectual deception, emotional manipulation, ect.....to keep them in that state of being dominated.






Cynique


in your confused mind.


You call my mind confused, but you couldn't even figure out what "Wednesday, Thursday, Friday" meant....lol.

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Cynique

That's not an example of confusion on my part; i was clueless


Oh.....
Lol, then since you had no clue are you saying that rather than being confused you were just IGNORANT?




That's not an example of confusion on my part; i was clueless. Confusion was when you weren't sure whether or not what you thought Wednesday, Thursday, Friday meant was right. Something you admitted to.

 

I said:

"I'm probably one of the FEW people who understood what YOU just posted....lol."

"I'm presuming Del's "Wednesday Thursday Friday" stands for "W T F"

 

https://aalbc.com/tc/topic/2695-why-black-men-cheat/?page=2



Now does that sound like someone who is "admitting" to being confused?


There is a difference between CAUTION in not assuming what a person means, and being CONFUSED about what they say or mean.

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@Pioneer1Yes, i was ignorant of what the phrase meant.That's why i couldn't give an answer. That's  the core meaning of what ignorance is; to not know. You can't be confused about something you are not aware of.  Meanwhile, you try and pat yourself on the back for being too chicken to just state what the phrase meant, instead of tip-toeing around it, waiting for Del to validate what you were reluctant to say for fear of being wrong. LOL 

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Not surprising, Del,  since you have no idea what Pioneer looks like due to the fact that he has chosen not to provide a profile picture of himself. (He has previously informed that the man pictured under his screen name is not him.)

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