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Pioneer1

Actually Troy.....

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So I gather you were unaware of how the GPS calculates position. 

 

These digressions first with quantum mechanics and now with the difference between accuracy and precision are irrelevant to the original statement you rejected and are strawman argument I'm not going to pursue.

 

As long as you understand that Newton's calculations can not be used with the GPS system and that relativity must be accounted for, I've made my point. Newtons calculations are good but flawed Einstein's calculations are better. You can call it whatever you want as long as you understand the difference. 

 

 

 

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What you are now doing is playing words games.  My sentence speaks for itself and is correct as stands.  Einstein's calculation are correct and Newtons are wrong.  Sure Newton is close (43 arc-seconds, based upon the information you found), for Mercury's orbit, but it 

 

Keep up the good work @Troy.

 

I am done with this discussion. You can make whatever claims you like about this argument. 

 

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I appreciate Del's  support for WHATEVER reason he's doing it....lol.

In a world where Black men fight with eachother so much, when Black men DO compliment and flatter eachother....it should be both appreciated and welcomed.




Del


Pioneer mentioned that he didn't go to university a while back. That moved me. Whether it was said with humility I don't know. What i have noticed with Troy recently is a need to attempt to use his pedigree to win arguments.


I say it constantly.
Infact when I'm meeting people it's one of the first things I mention.
Part of the reasons I say it is out of humility, but mostly it's that people don't expect more out of me than they should.



 

Accuracy refers to the closeness of a measured value to a standard or known value. For example, if in lab you obtain a weight measurement of 3.2 kg for a given substance, but the actual or known weight is 10 kg, then your measurement is not accurate. In this case, your measurement is not close to the known value.

Precision refers to the closeness of two or more measurements to each other. Using the example above, if you weigh a given substance five times, and get 3.2 kg each time, then your measurement is very precise. Precision is independent of accuracy. You can be very precise but inaccurate, as described above. You can also be accurate but imprecise.

For example, if on average, your measurements for a given substance are close to the known value, but the measurements are far from each other, then you have accuracy without precision


In other words.......

For it to be accurate it must be TRUE.
But you can have PRECISE LIES as long as they continue to line up and agree with eachother...lol.

 

 

 


Troy

Are you going to address my commentary on the ONE exerpt that you DID provide related to our argument discussion on the meaning of race?

You put Dorothy's quote up for a reason.

Was it supposed to be some sort of "evidence" meant to back your position?

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@Pioneer1 I don't have to agree with your position to see its validity. 

 

There are two things for me. I know it is important to acknowledge people.  And I like a good idea.

 

At my sons birthday i asked the kids to choose three super powers. His friend said a pen that could create anything. I was so excited by the answer that a dad at the other end of the table asked what he said. So i asked him to repeat it. The other Dad was yeah that's pretty cool. 

 

I also admire your optimism and that you want to make the world better. 

 

I will make it a point ro balance criticisms and compliments 

Pioneer i had to think about your statement. I  would rephrase. You could have a story that is at its core false. Make up supporting numbers that go to the sixth decimal place. That would be 1 out of a million. So it would be a very precise measurement that is not representative of reality. 

People are easily swayed by what they can't comprehend. 

At that point ask a question that bridges the gap between what you know and what you don't. You may not master it but you'll know more about it.

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A @Delano what brought about  your change in opinion?

 

@Pioneer1, sorry I missed your question.  But I give.  I'm convinced there is nothing I can show you or tell you to convince you of the fallacy of any genetic basis for "race."  

 

Now I know people like to use the term "race" to describe the way people look, but even that is a slippery slope and I rather simple describe people rather than pinning a racial label on them -- especially if don't know how they define themselves.

 

I met a Jewish woman once.  I was roommates with one of her sons.  Now this woman was a straight up European Jew but in the content I met her in she was just a lighten skinned Black woman.  She had a Black accent, she was culturally Black, she had Black children, and she lived with Black people -- she was Black as far as I was concerned.

 

The lady is dead now, but a popular book, The Color of Water was written about her. 

 

Blackness is about culture not genetics.

 

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A new hypothesis about axial shift. Which is something i had thought about albeit in a different context . 

 

Although I still know climate science is flawed. 

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Troy
 

But I give. I'm convinced there is nothing I can show you or tell you to convince you of the fallacy of any genetic basis for "race."


Now I know people like to use the term "race" to describe the way people look, but even that is a slippery slope and I rather simple describe people rather than pinning a racial label on them -- especially if don't know how they define themselves.


Since you admit you can't produce hard evidence-
And since you admit it's no longer a matter of SCIENCE, but a matter of personal PREFERNCE-

Lol, do you realize that you have henceforth basically forfeited your right to argue against my belief that there are multiple races?

 

 

Blackness is about culture not genetics.


If Blackness is about culture and not genetics......

Do you think those dark skinned people who were enslaved because they were Black could have gained their freedom simply by becoming White by changing their culture?

And do you believe those dark skinned people who were lynched for being Black....could have avoided their fate if only they had practiced a non-Black culture that made them no longer Black?

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I said, "I give" Pioneer. You win. There is too much that you don't know or are willing to accept for me to convince you otherwise. The science, which is crystal clear on this issue, is irrelevant you.

 

The questions you asked are based on how people look.  I just gave you an opposite example of a white person who is culturally Black and accepted as such by the community. You've ignored my example, because it conflicts with your argument. You don't see how my example actually demonstrates the flaws in your argument.

 

Again you win.  The prize...well I guess that would be ignorance of the science, a racist world view, and misinformation.  Congratulations.

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Troy

Well since I won.....then LISTEN to me!

Lol.....

No one is "culturally Black" because Blackness is not a culture.

There are Black people in Africa who's culture is 180 degrees different from AfroAmericans.
And there are Black people in Brazil who's culture is different from Blacks in Haiti.
But we're all called "Black" despite those cultural differences.
So how do you explain?

You're mixing race...which is based in genetics...with ethnicity....which is based on culture.

Your roommate's mother was culturally AFROAMERICAN....not "culturally Black", because Black has no solid culture.

 

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{Why am I even having this conversation?}

 

@Pioneer1, genetically there is only one race. It is dumb to talk about humans in this context.  That is why I gave up. 

 

This is also why I wrote "Black" is cultural; because there is no genetic basis for it.  But if I'll accept the term "Afro-American" for people who confirm to "Black culture" in the United States.  I use "African American" myself hence the name of the website--which address culture, not the color of someone skin.

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Troy

 

This is also why I wrote "Black" is cultural; because there is not genetic basis for it. But if I'll accept the term "Afro-American" for people who confirm to "Black culture" in the United States. I use "African American" myself hence the name of the website--which address culture, not the color of someone skin.


Listen to me, let us use pure simple logic.

You said that Black is cultural.

That means if a person PRACTICES a particular culture...then they can become Black.

And if they DON'T practice a particular culture...they will no longer be Black.

 

 


Going by you logic,

1.If the people who were enslaved because they were Black could have changed their culture and turned White...they would have freed themselves.

2.Those people who were forced to sit at the back of the bus during segregation because they were Black, could have sat up front with the rest of the Whites had they only changed their culture.

Wouldn't those 2 assumptions be correct?

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No.

 

It is hard to have this discussion because you're mixing up race, with phenotype, and culture.

 

Dark skinned people were enslaved.  If someone's skin color was light enough they would not have been enslaved in the American system.  Although white people have been enslaved only America's "peculiar institution" made permanent bondage based solely upon skin color. Light skinned "Black People" could also escape the imposition of  jim crow laws.  History tells us that many so called "Black" people got away with this--it was called passing....but you know these things. 

 

Indeed it was during skin color based slavery when racists promulgated false theories about race, and the associated levels of racial superiority. Those racist theories has been dispensed with by educated people.  The only ones holding onto them are ignorant and/or racists. Why do you hold onto these old racist ideas?  

 

It is the 21st century man we are all human, members of the same race.  Some have dark skin, some have light skin, and some are even homosexual (that last bit did not come out of left field but is part of another conversation).  None of these differences make any one superior or inferior to anyone else.

 

These old ideas only hold us back.

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I don't know what Hemming skin tone was but I believe she appeared to be "Black." 

 

Speaking of Jefferson, what he did to Hemming makes 45's pussy grabbing seem completely innocuous.  

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Sally Hemings was a light-skinned mulatto.  All  her descendants from her liaison with Jefferson  must've forgiven him because, in the present, members of this clan are very proud of their heritage and even fought to be recognized and accepted by the other descendants of him and his white wife. I know one of these descendants who wrote a book about this.      d4fc72159aef962c3ca900a2e0a03930.jpg

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Do you think Sally could have passed for white and avoided being enslaved.  I know you don't agree with my take on Jefferson abuse of Sally @Cynique, based upon a previous exchange. 

 

I really don't care how the descendants of this enslaved woman feels about her mistreatment. This does not change that fact the she was Tommy's property and he could do anything he wanted to do with her -- whether she liked it or not.

 

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Who said i didn't agree with your take on Sally Hemings? Why wouldn't i?   She was, after all, the involuntary, enslaved mistress of  a plantation master.  I merely note that her descendants apparently don't hold any hard feelings against Jefferson. 

No, i don't think she could've passed for white.  She has black people's hair.  

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Oh for some reason I thought you felt Tommy and Sally were in love with each other.  I seem to remember mansplaining ;) that "love" was unlikely given the master/slave relationship. More like I'd rather lay up under TJ rather than work those fields....

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Del rape was part of the culture.  The question really is; would I rather get raped and stay in the big house or work the fields AND get raped?

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Troy

It is hard to have this discussion because you're mixing up race, with phenotype, and culture.


Lol......
How am I the one mixing all these subjects up when YOU are the one who said:  Black = Culture


 

You said a lot about light skin and dark skin, but it really is getting away from your original statement that Black is a CULTURE.
So I want to get back to it......



Since Black is a CULTURE.....according to you.

Since your roommate's mother you met in college was so acquainted with Black culture that you considered HER to be just a light-skinned Black.

Do you believe that YOU/TROY can stop being Black simply by changing your culture?

And do you believe that Steve Bannon or Trump can BECOME Black.....if they sincerely adopted "Black culture"?

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Yes Pioneer the conversation is beyond nonsensical.  I made the mistake of trying to speak in terms I thought you'd understand but I see that did not work.  You only see people in terms of your antiquated understanding of race (and gender) and the stereotypical baggage that goes along with it.

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20 minutes ago, Troy said:

Yes Pioneer the conversation is beyond nonsensical.  I made the mistake of trying to speak in terms I thought you'd understand but I see that did not work.  You only see people in terms of your antiquated understanding of race (and gender) and the stereotypical baggage that goes along with it.


I said:

Since Black is a CULTURE.....according to you.

Do you believe that YOU/TROY can stop being Black simply by changing your culture?

And do you believe that Steve Bannon or Trump can BECOME Black.....if they sincerely adopted "Black culture"?




:( I'm sorry, but.....was the above post an answer to the questions???????

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Hey Del it's not really clear what you're asking? Are you suggesting that my previous claims to understand pioneers point of view is no longer valid? 

 

If so I would disagree. I still believe I know exactly where Pioneer is coming from. I just believe is factually incorrect and I disagree with them on that basis.

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I figured I'd give it a try since speaking in my language failed.  You know I've learned a couple of things over the years here.  I don't mean just facts and ideas, but about communicating with people.

 

I gave a talk last week about Facebook, Amazon, and Google, rather than bombarding the audience with facts and figures I decided to  tell more of my story to connect with people on a more human (emotional level).  Afterward the organizer told me what she really liked about my talk was that it was informative but I also made it "personal."

 

Communicating in a language people understand is a worthy goal.

 

Thanks everyone.

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I think any concept can be explained.  It just some concepts may take more time as a foundation of more basic knowledge may need to be laid.

 

A sign of intelligence is the ease at which one can explain a seemingly complex concept in a way anyone can understand. 

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"If you can't  explain it, you don't know it.   If you  can't teach it, you need to go back and learn it..."

Edited by Mel Hopkins
I mean't to write CAN'T
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7 hours ago, Mel Hopkins said:

@Delano You can't.   Without  comprehending a subject you can't explain it.  You can only give facts and details. 


This is basically the same thing I said to Cynique in THIS thread:

https://aalbc.com/tc/topic/4876-comprehension-is-intimately-intertwined-with-knowledge/?page=2

My argument against Cynique's was that there is a difference between KNOWING someting and simply repeating facts and details.....mere information.

This proves to me that you AGREED with my assesment but refrained from admiting such.

I wonder why.....lol.

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