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Cynique

Ringing out the old year

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Word is that 2018 will be a strong Capricorn year. There are 4 Planets in that sign right now. Capricorn rules Saturn and it's predicted that this relationship will manifest itself by placing stringent demands on humanity. Whether in one's personal life, one's job, or political leanings, this configuration in the heavens supposedly portends that things are going to get very complicated.  So say the astrologers.  What say you, Del? Taking everything into consideration, i tend to subscribe to the idea that things will get worse before they get better.  Not a far-fetched notion considering the quixotic economy and the polarized populace at home,  and the  possible repercussions from abroad attributable to the fool hardiness of the inept POTUS.

 

Furthermore, taking into account that right or wrong has no relevance in how reality is played out, i have little faith in Trump being brought to trial for his collusion with the Russians or that an impeachment will be imminent.   Especially considering how impotent the floundering Democrats are. The newly-elected senator from Alabama now speaks in conciliatory tones, hoping Democrats and Republicans can compromise for the "good of the country".  The typical Democrat stance of  taking the high road against a bunch of self-serving low-lifes. 

 

Meanwhile, Republican leaders are falling under the sway of Trump. As luck would have it,  like other scoundrels, his teflon surface prevents charges against him from sticking. Or is any clear leadership emerging from the ranks of the Democrats except for played-out old men, and wanna-be candidates of the female variety, still handicapped by their gender.  A 2020 defeat of Trump  is dependent on his leadership resulting in disaster.  But he seems to be successfully settling in, converting his party leaders with his bluster and hyperbole, impressing them as he bumbles along, never falling off the edge.  If he gets better at this, as an incumbent president, he may be re-elected.  Also, there could be many independent voters who might like his tough talk and bold misguided  threats to the rest of the world.  The incidents of domestic terrorism at the hands of Muslims converted to the cause of Isis  certainly don't inspire a lot of opposition to his restrictions against the Islamic community. 

 

Whatever.  The earth will continue to orbit the sun, and revolve on its axis, and the good guys will be indistinguishable from the bad guys while the masses will be sandwiched in between. Black folks?  They, as usual, will be plagued by their perennial problems as pundits persist in articulating them,  offering no viable solutions. And so it goes. What will be an encouraging surprise is if my pessimism is unwarranted!

 

 I can't believe we're of the brink of 2018.  Seems like just yesterday when the new century turned. Tempus fugit.  Yesterdays are like blinks of the eye, and time is fleeting. As Eleanor Roosevelt once said, "Today is a gift. That's why it's call the present". Taking things one day at a time is the best option for a  world-weary mortal like me.  Ho Hum.  See ya next year (?) 

 

🎉

 

 

 

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Capricorn is also about the rules. So your take on it is flawless. However Mueller is going to clean house. Trump hasn't threatened him but the republicans may go after him. However even if he is fired the investigation won't go away. I think that Trump's finances will be the center of the investigation and the impeachment proceedings won't go far. I think he will either be out or on his way out by March 3, 2018. Time will tell.

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Meanwhile, Republican leaders are falling under the sway of Trump.

They aren't "falling under the sway" of Trump.

Do you believe seasoned Republican politicians are stupid enough to let someone like Trump trick them or shmooze and sweet talk them into doing something they didn't want to do?

It's a game.
All of the Republicans are working together with the same goals in mind, despite what they may say or do in public.

 




The newly-elected senator from Alabama now speaks in conciliatory tones, hoping Democrats and Republicans can compromise for the "good of the country".


Look at this.....
Black folks go out of their way to put this clown in office sending a clear message that they don't want racists or sexists pedophiles in power.....and what does Doug Jones do?

The same thing MOST White Democrats do, cave in and start talking about compromising with Republicans and begging them to work together.

This is why I'm neither Republican nor Democrat.

But I have more respect for the Republicans because atleast they tend to be more honest than White Democrats.
I don't think Doug Jones will be any better for Black people than Moore.....I really don't.

 

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3 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Do you believe seasoned Republican politicians are stupid enough to let someone like Trump trick them or shmooze and sweet talk them into doing something they didn't want to do

 

Yes, I think the Republicans are falling under the sway of Trump because they are seeing how he gets away with thumbing his nose at convention and protocol, something they admire especially those among them who are used to to engaging in deceptive underhanded tactics. His shameless public persona has seduced and influenced  them into emulating him. 

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Cynique

because they are seeing how he gets away with thumbing his nose at convention and protocol, something they admire especially those among them who are used to to engaging in deceptive underhanded tactics. His shameless public persona has seduced and influenced them into emulating him.


I actually agree with this.
I do believe they admire his shameless style, but that's not what you said earlier.

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I simply elaborated on what "being under his sway" meant in my last post. What did i say that was contrary to this in my first statement?  

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21 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

I actually agree with this.

 

Wait, what?!  First @Delano and @Pioneer1 engage in an online bromance, and now Pioneer and Cynique are showing signs of being converging to the same wavelength.  2018 does look like it will be an interesting year! :D

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:( If only we could get Tariq Nasheed and Umar Johnson to end their nasty squabble and work together for 2018




Troy

If you check it out, I actually have a record of AGREEING with Cynique most of the time.
SHE is the one who makes it a point to disagree; even on subjects where there initially was no disagreement.

If I said 1 plus 1 was 2 she'd find a way to disagree with that!
Start telling me how 1 plus 1 could really be 15 in a parallel universe and if I could think in the abstract I would realize it....lol.

Troy your girl is something else, lol.


Like the old folks used to say:

Some people would sit up and argue with a leaf on a tree, if the leaf was fool enough to argue back....LOL.

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Puleeze. The reason why i challenge so much of what Pioneer's says is that he and i have a different world view.  I never have to work at disagreeing with him, - it kinda comes natural.  i am probably old enough to be his mother and it always amazes me as to how set in his ways he is when it comes to his conclusions about blackness. 

 

Take our different views on homosexuality.  i  grew up during the '40s and '50s. My small, midwestern home town, a suburb of Chicago, was the location of a small ghetto island surrounded by a sea of white people, many of whom i went to school with.  Growing up here, there were always males around - choir directors, hair dressers, slick haired guys who powdered their faces and gossiped - guys we called "sissies".  They were  a part of my community and weren't bad people.  We just accepted them, just like we accepted people with low intelligence, calling them "not quite bright", and the sneakin-around-cheats who were "playin' on" their spouses", and the expectant couples,  who "had to get married", and the the frequent imbibers who we called, "liquor heads".   

 

When i went away to the state university, i encountered a cross section  of blacks from villages, towns, and cities located all over Illinois, everyone  bringing their ways and customs and accents, all of us congealing into a group where blackness was our common denominator, where huddled together, interacting and learning about each other, we existed amidst a large white student body.

 

As i grew older, i encountered a wide variety of black and white folks during a very pivotal and volatile period in American history when there was plenty to observe. To me, this explains why, in the present, when i interact with Pioneer our interpretations and impressions of black life don't jibe. Plus, our interests are also different.  I am not Afro-centric.  And he is not into meta-physical spirituality,  or the thoughts and disciplines of "white" philosophers . My black experience apparently shaped a point of view different from his.  And contrary to how he portrays himself, Pioneer rarely agrees with me. i am not arguing by myself.

 

BTW, i found myself immediately disagreeing with his just-made remarks on another post about the sex habits of Millennials. My observation are that they are definitely not chaste prudes.  They are who originated the "hookin' up" practice, a phrase used to describe one night stands.  And smart phones are their favorite venue for exchanging nude pictures. 

 

 

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Troy

See

I told you...lol.

She couldn't find an actual statement in my previous post to disagree with so she felt COMPELLED to go on a journey to FIND something in which to disagree with me over.
Digging up statements from another thread from an entirely different subject all together just for the purposes of arguing...lol.

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@Pioneer1You don't agree with me, when i say that you don't agree with me.  The fact that you address your denials to Troy, indicates that he is also under the impression that we are rarely in agreement.  Do you agree that I have no choice but to assume that the reason you say you always agree with me is because you think i am always right? :o  And surely your agreement is forthcoming when i assert that your thought processes are flawed. :wacko:  

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@Pioneer1 I was unaware of the beef between Tariq Nasheed and Umar Johnson.  I did a quick search on Youtube and found the video below.

 

I did not probe more deeply because that kind of stuff does not really interest me.  I always had questions about Umar's school -- especially after he blew the original dates.  His views on homosexuality are extreme for someone in his field. 

 

I've long since loss interest in the "beefs." The one With Corner West and Ta-Nehisi Coates is not interesting to me, but I was aware it.  Ta-Nehisi's response was classy and appropriate for a Brother at that level. I'm familiar with Tariq Nasheed's books and the popular Hidden Colors films.  I have to say I'm disappointed in Tariq's response here; it is very low class. I thought he was a conscious Brother...I perceive him completely differently now.

 

 

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I'm disappointed in both of the brothers, but I have to be honest that I'm not TOO suprised.

Look at how Black men treat eachother.

Can you think of ANY demographic on this planet that is less united and more divided than Black men.

Walk down the street and you often see Black men smiling and trying to get next to Black women, Latina women, White women.....begging White men for jobs or money.
Trying to be nice and snuggle up to everyone except ANOTHER Black man.

Look no futher than your own site as an example of what I'm talking about..............

Look at how you, me, and Del go at eachother over minor subjects.
Arguing over race.
Arguing over climate change.
Arguing over politics.

All three of us are Black, straight, male, around similar ages and from urban environments.....you'd think we'd have pretty united philosopies.

When was the last time you saw Cynique and Mel even disagree or criticize eachother?
Looks like Wendy Jones may be joining, but do you really think she's gonna be arguing with either of them?

I know they have their disagreements and have differing opinions; but like White people who are going to war with eachother will often put their disagreements to the side when it comes to dealing with Black people......
Even Black women have a "sisterhood" that makes them put their differences aside or ignore them while they are in the presence of Black men!

"Girl, I don't like what you said....but I'll let it slide because right now we gotta stick together against them sorry ass nigguhz!".....lol.

Say something a Black man doesn't like, he ain't letting NOTHING slide or hiding his feelings about it.
He'll stand there staring at you for 15 minutes looking you up and down to find something to talk about and roast you on, even if it's just your shoe laces.

I ran into some brother from Jamaica down at the Eastern Market just today.
We started off agreeing and vibing.
Talking about Marcus Garvey and Black American struggle ect....and before you know it we were disagreeing over this and over that and how much meat we should eat and how long I should let my hair grow...lol.


I'm not sure if it's ego, high testosterone, or what.....
But whether it's Tupac and Biggie or Umar and Tariq....it seems that many Black men seem to have something in them that they can barely hold back going head up and going hard against another Black man.....and enjoy it.

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Del

Pioneer you atr mistaken disagreement with disunity. Underneath the disagreement there's still camaraderie.


How can there be unity without agreement?

What's that old biblical saying, can two walk together unless they agree?


Again, I point to Mel, Cynique, Linda Chavez and many of the other women who frequent this site....do you see them openly arguing and disagreeing vehemently with eachother?

The only example I can think of where they openly disagreed was Sara.....which was a rare exception.

I'm not pointing this out as if I WANT to see them bickering with eachother, but I point it out as an example of the unity and mutual respect that other demographics seem to have with eachother INFRONT OF or COMPARED TO Black males.

Not only do other people see YOU as the enemy or opponent, but too often Black men see THEMSELVES as eachother's enemy.

Again, Black men of a certain age who are straight and grow up in urban environments in the United States should share similar values....despite the differences in education and income.
Just being a Black male period....knowing how society has treated you growing up...should FORCE you to think a certain way and have certain values that we all share with eachother.

But look at the Black men in America.....

Can't agree on gay folks.
Can't agree on religion.
Can't agree on immigration.
Can't agree that White folks are jacking with the weather.
Can't agree on what foods we should or shouldn't eat.


I honestly think the many Black women look at how Black males fight eachother and see it as pitiful and it CONTRIBUTES to the loss of respect so many have for Black men; similar to how White people who observe Black people fighting over petty issues continue to lose respect for them.

I've actually had a few White people tell me this OUTRIGHT!

Years ago I was at a hotel and me, an older White man, and a Black man from Philadelphia were talking.....and it didn't take long before the brother from Philly wanted to talk about how "hard" Philadelphia was and argue about this and that.
The older White man looked at us both and said the biggest problem Black people have is they can't seem to get along with eachother.
He looked me in my eyes as serious as can be and said, Black men are just as smart as anyone else but if you can't stop fighting long enough how do you expect to get anything accomplished?

That was almost 20 years ago but it stuck with me beyond this day.

Now don't get me wrong, we NEED some friction.
If everyone agreed whole heartedly with eachother then things would get boring real quick; but much of what we as Black men disagree over are issues WE didn't invent and things WE really don't know much about anyway.

White folks are the ones doing much of the research, but we read it in the paper or see it on the news and now we want to argue with EACHOTHER about some shit White folks put out....lol.

 

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Pioneer you hold up white people as a moral example.  A casual look at history will show white people killing each other at an alarming rate.  600K+ killed in the war between the states.  Millions killed in WWI, WWII, then there is our course Hitler, The crusades, and even the pate of massive shootings Vegas, Columbine, etc.

 

And don't get me started on white folks and their genocide of the indigenous people in the American's, Australia, and the treatment of Black people--come on man!  Surely you are going to use some random white guy, given their collective history of rape, pillage, and plunder across planet Earth, to make your point

 

Again our willingness to debate and even argue, is more of a sign of unity than disunity.  

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Troy

You must remember that of those killed in the world wars and Crusades.....millions of those people were actually PEOPLE OF COLOR.

When the Europeans went into the Middle East and North Africa for the Crusades most of the people they killed were Arabs and Africans of color.

And even in the World Wars 1 and 2 a large percentage of those killed  were people in Africa and Asia who were serving as proxy soldiers to help their European colonial masters fight.

 

 


And don't get me started on white folks and their genocide of the indigenous people in the American's, Australia, and the treatment of Black people--come on man! Surely you are going to use some random white guy, given their collective history of rape, pillage, and plunder across planet Earth, to make your point


Exactly my point!

Their anger and violence tends to be focused on conquering people of color.

While people of color's anger and violence tends to be focused on conquering EACHOTHER.

Which goes back to my point about Black men constantly arguing and going to war with eachother over petty arguments when we should be on the same page when it comes to MOST things since most of us get the same treatment from society.

Now let me bring something to your attention as an excellent example of how people stick together AGAINST the Black man........

 

 


Check out the end of this page of the thread where Mel correctly observes the difference between KNOWLEDGE and simply repeating facts and information:

https://aalbc.com/tc/topic/4850-actually-troy/?page=2&_fromLogin=1

What's the problem?

There IS NONE.....except for the fact that I basically said the same thing in another thread but Mel ignored it and Cynique argued AGAINST it and said that facts and information IS knowledge!!!

But if you'll observe, this same Cynique actually gave her a TROPHY at the bottom of her post for what she said....signaling that she agrees with it.

So now you have two Black women AGREEING with a position I initiated but one of them OPPOSED me on that very same position when it was coming from me and another simply refused to agree with it as long as I was the one pushing it!

I'm telling you man, this is NO coincidence!

White society has been against Black men and many of them have turned Black women against Black men.
Many Black women have a HATRED of Black men.
A hatred that DIDN'T come from being abused, molested, or abandoned with children but because they were TRAINED to hate and oppose Black men.

Now ofcourse, I.....Pioneer....don't represent all Black men and just because someone disagrees with me or opposes me it doesn't mean they disagree with all Black men.

But what you see going on against Black men in this society....especially in the United States is UNUSUALLY suspicious because too many brothers are complaining about it for it to be a hallucination and if you leave the nation and go to Canada or Europe Black men are NOT treated the same way.


But Black men really need to put the pettiness aside and recognize that if we don't support eachother who else can we expect to support us.

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@Pioneer1Get outta here! Mel and i did not verify what you were saying all along which was that knowledge was synonymous with understanding!  I said that knowledge encompassed facts and information but was not the same as comprehending what this data meant. So i don't agree with you when it comes to what knowledge implies. 

 

You are really a die-hard, still refusing to think your ideas through lest doing so would prove you wrong  and leave you with no choice but to admit that your entrenched beliefs might be incorrect.  One thing is sure, a whole generation of white Europeans  killed each other during World War I.  And just because a relatively few number of men of color participated in Word War II, does not negate that the majority of those fighting against each other were white Europeans. You're always crowing about the 2 Million Men marches organized by your messiah; wasn't that a display of black men unified?  And didn't white men from the Union and the Confederacy fight and kill each other during the Civil War?  Puleeze.

 

I deleted  a previous post expressing my opinion that you are not a critical thinker because i didn't want to keep piling on you, but i reinstate that sentiment now.  

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@Pioneer1 here is something for you to consider, for the New Year:

 

I think that you are the only one on this forum who has never changed their stance on an issue.  I may be wrong, but I have no recollection of this ever happening. If there is an instance please relate it here or point to a link.

 

If you can not do this, after so many years of participating here, that tells me that you probably think everything you believe is infallible.  We all know noone is perfect, but an unwillingness to accept our own imperfections and fallibility will never led to growth.

 

Are you interested in expanding your mind or simply winning arguments?

 

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17 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

except for the fact that I basically said the same thing in another thread but Mel ignored it

 

@Pioneer1 I did NOT ignore your comment!  I didn't respond to it.   If you read my remarks in that thread you'll see I was on another tangent.   When I did return, my reference was in agreement with Troy's statement -because I had noticed the same in learning.  I realized that if I can teach a subject then my comprehension of the subject is solid.

By the way,  REALLY Pioneer? Hate Black Men?  Are you serious?  :D

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Cynique
 

Mel and i did not verify what you were saying all along which was that knowledge was synonymous with understanding!


That WASN'T my position.
My position was the knowledge consisted of two things: facts + understanding of those facts

You need BOTH to "know" it.

I can give you a list of foreign words and you can memorize how they sound and how they're spelled and still not KNOW them because you don't know what they mean.

You have information....but you don't understand the information you were just given.

So you don't KNOW it.




Troy


I think that you are the only one on this forum who has never changed their stance on an issue. I may be wrong, but I have no recollection of this ever happening. If there is an instance please relate it here or point to a link.


To save time from me having to go through archives digging up posts, do you remember the exhange I had with Sara where I said that in Africa Catholic priests were allowed to marry because it was part of their culture?
And Sara said it wasn't true and after doing research I discovered it was a mistake of mine and came back ADMITTING that I was wrong?

YOU....Troy....actually congradulated me for admitting that I was wrong in that instance.

Micheal Jackson said....do you remember that time?


 

Are you interested in expanding your mind or simply winning arguments?


Both

The more I expand my breadth of knowledge the more arguments I will win....lol.



 

 

Mel
 

By the way, REALLY Pioneer? Hate Black Men? Are you serious?


I didn't say YOU hated Black men, but there is A HATRED and lack of respect for Black men in this society for various reasons.
Some of it is justified in some cases based on personal experience, but MOST of the hatred of Black men that exist in this society does not come from things that Black men have actually done....but perceptions that have been burned into the subconscious of many.

 

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@Pioneer1It's useless for me to engage you in debate because semantics are not your strong suit.   And how you process language may have something to do with why you transposed the letters in Michael's name and incorrectly spelled it Micheal. (Seems like you should've been able to look at it and detect this.  Just like you went through life totally unaware that you were spelling a common word like "definitely" as "definately".)

Our definitions of knowledge differ. In my book,  knowledge per se is not comprehension; it's being aware of or knowing the components(facts and info) about a subject and this may or may not lead to comprehending what this data indicates. So you can have knowledge without comprehension, but you can't have comprehension without knowledge. (Wisdom is how wisely you apply what you comprehend)  Since this doesn't square with you, we have to agree to disagree. I suggested this before but then you decided that we did agree. (Does anybody really care?  I guess you do since you seem to imagine that you are playing to a vast audience of lurkers hanging on to your every word, and that you have to give a good accounting of yourself so they'll be on your side.  Your making a public announcement about your persecution on this site would seem to attest to this.)

 

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