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Cultural Wars and the Black Panther


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@Delano Where did you get your information Wakandipedia?

 

Question (please do not respond with a question) were you entertaining the idea that the Black Panthers got their name from the comic?

 

 

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“Two black Californians, Huey P. Newton and Bobby Seale, asked for permission to use the black panther emblem that the Lowndes County Freedom Organization had adopted, for their newly formed Black Panther Party.” —www.blackpast.org

 

lowdnes_county.jpg

Lowndes County Freedom Organization was founded in 1965. 

 

Besides, panthers is like tigers, lions, whatever, are common symbols of clubs  teams, or organization -- not particularly creative or unique. 

 

The movie will do no more for Black people than the comic Del.  Think it through man, 'cause you won't find a historical precedent.

 

 

 

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Brothers, brothers, brothers; nothing new under the sun is original. To imply the political activists organization The Black Panther Party was inspired by a comic book character is conjecture at best; at worst it is total disrespect for one of the original, most effective African American youth organizations of 1960’s America.

 

Use of the ‘common name’ black panther does not, can not legally or otherwise infringe on predate usage. BEWARE of efforts designed to delegitmize,  demonize Black movements that frighten White America. It’s the same tactic used that (only marginally) finally brought down the Black Panther Party movement. I can not personally call myself a member of the Black Panther Party, but I’ve reached out to some relatives who were original members or supported the movement. Angela Davis, Stanley Deacon Alexander, Charlene Michell, No return comments yet.

 

I can say with certainty, however, the Black Panther logo, mission statement, etc. was not representative of fighting city crime. Not ever racism (at first). They were originally organized as a breakfast program to feed Black children before school.  Activities from there are a matter of history.

 

Black youths whose focused, directed anger caused alarm to National security so great that the U.S. Congress, FBI, CIA and local law enforcement employed a think tank for direction in strategy to deal with the ‘black question.’

 

And why not? The comic book character captured public imagination of a crusader who fought for the underdog but was ultimately denounced by the system.

 

Brother Delano, I understand and respect the anger inside you but, please, brother don’t allow conjecture and wishful thinking to distort the reality you know to be true. Unfortunately, we Black folk really fail to think, rethink, and think again before we express ourselves. And when we do it usually blacken someone’s eye.

 

I somewhat loss it for brother Huey P. when he designed those damn men jeans while in jail, exposing the bottocks. But it helped the brother pull himself up after he was released; his other fastion design projects fail flat.

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@Delano you are so hung up on being right you are blinded to the opportunity to learn anything.  I'm surprised by this. 

 

You asked if the BPP party was inspired by the comic.  That was silly on it's face, but I played along and showed where the BPP got their logo and inspiration from. 

 

If it makes you happy to believe that the Black Panther Party was inspired by Stan Lee's character, because it "proves" me wrong go right ahead.  I can no longer help you.  But consider this; while you run around rejecting truth, you've failed to produce a stitch of evidence to the contrary...

 

 

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@Troy you could search the dates of inception. You could look up Lowndes County Freedom fighters history. You could have looked up where is Lowndes County. You could have read the letter you posted. Any one of those things would have shown you your error. The beauty is I didn't ask you to believe me I said go find out. 

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Yes, brother @Delano, be that as it may but dates, in this instance, are barely proof that the Black Panther movement was actually inspired by the comic book, it can support your theory, but inconclusively.  To know for sure one would have to ask the founders. Moreover, the word black panther is a common term. Hence, common words, terms, and phases cannot be copyrighted, trademarked or owned by anyone, thus, would not require permission to use. Your argument may be correct as an assessment but not definitive or a conclusive fact. I applaud your persistence in shifting through the data for a truth though.

 

Ever wonder why the original IBM Corp. couldn't copyright the word 'computer'? Because the abacus was the original computer, acknowledged and used worldwide. If it could Africa could sue every school library and person who ever used the words black panther as could Egyptians for use of the word abacus. 

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@Troy @Kalexander2

http://www.itsabouttimebpp.com/BPP_Newspapers/htm/Its_About_Time_The_Archives_of_Billy_X_Jennings.htm

 

No connection between BPP and Black Panther. What's cool is I said I don't know @Troy

Just to be totally clear. I am not posting this to say the comic influenced the party. But to refute your statement about the ridiculousness of the connection.

 

_DSC5483.jpg

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@Delano & @Zaji, Black Panther, the movie, indeed, stimulated African American emotions as well as White emotions (inspired) but to what end? Seems White folks have more of something to despise and Black folk are seemingly doing nothing more than celebrating the ‘we can make believe too’ or ‘what if’ we had similar imagination. Which is not the call to action or change of thinking which ‘inspiration’ is meant to do.

 

White folk looking at photos of Blacks hanging from trees are inspiration to lynch more or imagine a world where it’s legal and okay to kill Black folk. With the exception of some, Blacks point to the same photo and complain.

 

Inspiration of the Black Panther Party sprung into action from empirical experience living in America. What was the ultimate plight of that movement? The NAACP was inspired observing policies aimed to permanently cement marginalization of Blacks to only end up in the State Department’s pockets. The Nation of Islam was inspired by all the above, especially power of Christianity in Government; to see Malcolm X assassinated after his inspirational pilgrimage to the Kaaba in Mecca. No way was American going to let him bring the message of true Islamic thinking to Black folk, not with the BBP, NAACP, Martin Luther King, James Baldwin, and others waking folks for their slumber. Not when it's easier to sway Honorable Elijah Muhammad who had already begun practicing ways of White folk.

 

I apologize for being a bit long-winded here but it’s important brother @Troy be understood. White America’s effort to discourage Blacks has, for the most part, worked. The movie does nothing more than give Blacks some quality family time at the theater, a box of popcorn, and a sense of false pride while the studios make bank deposits.

 

That’s what I think the brother is saying. I invite him to correct me if I’m wrong. Where pure simplicity is a form of complete excellence I am always suspicious of the one-size fits all rationale. That the inspiration of art, ideas makes beauty of the ‘intangible’ an of intellectual importance.  

 
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Brother @Delano, if it’s an argument vs. a debate you want. You just got it, brother. That’s like saying you have no goals or aspirations to achieving something worthwhile. When in-fact you are ‘engaged’ right now at this very moment. As I previously asserted with great conviction “Black folk really fail to think, rethink, and think again before we express ourselves” have you any idea what it means to be disengaged with the beliefs of other people? I mean, come on, brother, really? I do believe that’s the first time post I’ve read where you make absolutely no sense at all!

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@Delano, but it really is the same world. Yes? And I assure you I live in the same world as you. But what I don’t understand is why, how a brother as yourself victimized by the system in ways most common among our Black brothers, incarceration, poverty, and lack of exposure remain to be suckas and fall for the same hoky dok time and again.

 

What you need, brother, is a check-up from the neck up. And a not a doctor, but some college text books to expand your own horizons.

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@Delano, damn brother, that took some guts to disavow other members vindication of academic exposure. And I thank you for such honesty; which goes to my point (subject to your honesty) that Black folk with limited academic exposure does, not only, have the ability to absorb advanced information but can go beyond with just empirical exposure to life in America. Hence, even I had to accept the other member's assertions because of already informed commentary.

 

Just think, @Delano, how dangerous you’d be with a BA, or MA strapped to your side, the sort of reckoning that makes America quiver at the knees without someone convincing you that really can’t do it?

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Africans abroad are probably more susceptible to American propaganda that Americans are. 

 

 

Al Jazeers's title: "Movie critics have praised the film, but cultural critics argue Marvel Studios, and its parent company Disney, may be exploiting black political and cultural movements for their own financial gain."

 

I'm obviously in the cultural critics corner. 

 

The Root's title: "Audiences Across Africa Hail Black Panther for Humanizing Black Characters"

 

As expected they are all-in when it comes to promoting Marvel propaganda.

 

Quartz's title, “Black Panther” is now the highest grossing film ever in East, West and southern Africa.

 

{Yawn}

 

Interesting Al Jazeera reported that there is a boycott petition going around.  All is not lost, but no one is gonna stand up to Disney and more than they'd stand up to Amazon or Facebook. 

 

 

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Hey Del it would be helpful if you shared a bit more about the links you are posting.  The title at a minimum and the reason why you are sharing it.  That would help others determine if they want to read the articles.  The first paragraph, for a well written article will contain a thesis statement, so that is usually the the easiest thing to do

 

I know you are accessing the site from a mobile device.  Whenever I'm using my cell phone to post to the site I was use the voice to text feature, that helps a great deal.

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Coogler has done some brilliant films -- no doubt!  But you will never see me do a wakanda salute or look to wakanda for a source of Black pride it is just a movie based upon pure fiction, unlike the Fruitvale, 42, and Marshall films.

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Man...this thread is all over the place.

I had a friend tell me the other day that he hasn't seen Black Panther and WILL NOT go see it.

I asked him why, and he said that the conflict between Africans and African Americans in the movie is just contributing to the division amongst Black folk.

Now for those who've actually seen the film.....they would no that this African vs African American issue was such a minor aspect of the movie that it's almost not worth talking about.
But when you do like my friend and let reviews and critics sway you BEFORE you see the film for yourself.....you end up missing out on a couple hours of enjoyment.


This is why it's best to see things for yourself so that you can determine things from your OWN eyes instead of someone elses.

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Maybe, but you friend has a point @Pioneer1; sometimes not exposing yourself to propaganda is the best defense.

 

Y'all might recall that during the run up to that last election, I'd decided I was not going to vote, once Hillary became the Democratic candidate.  I had been bombarded by so much anti-Hillary "news." I had no interest in supporting her candidacy.  Obviously 45 was not a viable alternative.  

 

During conversations here, @Cynique convinced me that I really needed to vote, and I ultimately did.

 

Today, we know that social media targeted people with messages psychometrically designed to get you to support 45 or to not vote at all.  This is a fact.  I feel I was was manipulated, through my use of social media, to loose interest in voting for Clinton. 

 

Today to protect myself, I don't read anything on social media unless it is directly related to something I've posted -- and that is always AALBC.com related stuff.  I simply refuse to subject myself to Facebook's manipulation.  

 

So I get it when some people actively avoid seeing the film and refuse to expose themselves to Disney's propaganda.  There is a part of me that wished I had not paid to see the film. But I'm not going to beat myself up over it, because I'm not nearly as susceptible to the hype as most seem to be.

 

So it is not always best to see things for yourself.  There are other ways to acquire knowledge, reading is one.

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Troy

 

Maybe, but you friend has a point @Pioneer1; sometimes not exposing yourself to propaganda is the best defense.


In my thinking, this is EXACTLY what he did when he listened to critics and pretty much let THEM decide whether or not the movie was worth seeing.....instead of seeing it for himself.

Some movies are propaganda.
But sometimes the propaganda is actually in the CRITIQUE of the movie by critics with an agenda to besmirch it.

 

 

 

So I get it when some people actively avoid seeing the film and refuse to expose themselves to Disney's propaganda. There is a part of me that wished I had not paid to see the film. But I'm not going to beat myself up over it, because I'm not nearly as susceptible to the hype as most seem to be.

So it is not always best to see things for yourself. There are other ways to acquire knowledge, reading is one.


We can probably both agree that even reading the TRANSCRIPTS of a movie carries only a fraction of the effect on an individual than of actually watching it.

How much less of an effect would reading the writings....not of the movie....but simply of people discussion it, be?

And how much DISTORTION from the actual film itself is produced in the minds of those who have never seen the film but get their only information on it from 2nd and 3rd hand sources?

 

The only reasonable excuse for a person not to actually watch a film is if they suspect some SUBLIMINAL programing going on in the film (seriously).
Outside of that danger......
I don't see any harm in an intellectually well balanced individual subjecting themselves to movies that may have had negative reviews in order to atleast make an educated and informed decision.

In some cases, the best thing to do IS to see a film that is supposedly harmful and part of a larger propaganda machine in order to study and dismantle it. In most professional endeavors people are taught to study their opponents to not only learn about them but to come up with the best strategies to counter them.

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Sure a good argument can be made that by ony exposing yourself to view points that mirror your own, your ideas are never challenged and you never learn.  This is a classic filter bubble.

 

But man we already saw this movie we know how it the game works, there is nothing new here except for the fact that our reaction is much more exaggerated that I can recall in recent memory.

 

Besides I'm sure you can think of a great many things that you don't have to experience to understand are bad.  I was never enslaved but I read about it.  I don't need to have my children taken away from me, see my woman raped, or feel the pain of the whip.  I can read about it and imagine.  Is that the same thing is being enslaved -- of course not, but it is better than not knowing about it or seeing some sugar coated version of negroes happily singing in he fields.

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Troy

When you said "we already saw this movie", what exactly did you mean?

As far as experiencing things.......

I'm talking strictly about movies and other forms of media, not everything.
And again, unless there is a direct threat of hypnotic suggestion or subliminal messaging, I fail to see the HARM in those who are psychologically balanced viewing movies and other forms of media they may or may not agree with so that they can atleast dissect it.

Now if a person is prone to hallucinations and delusions and believe what they're seeing is REAL, then perhaps they should be protected from viewing certain films....for their own saftey and perhaps the safety of those around them.

But for most people, besides boredom....what harm would it be to drop $10 or $15 at your local theater and check the flick out so you can ATLEAST know what you're talking about when you criticize it.

Some of these online review critics and all of their conspiracy theories about the film that only THEY seem to have picked upon sound more like propagandists than the film itself.....lol.

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@Pioneer1 there is no harm in going to see a film.  I do it from time to time myself.  The problem is went we begin to elevate this fiction into something we worship.

 

Don't you see this is the exact same strategy that put 45 into office.  Some slick marketers created the fiction of 45 being a savvy businessman for the purpose of bolstering his profile for the Apprentice "reality" TV program.  The nation brought into the fiction and we made him POTUS.  The facts of his business failures did not matter, what mattered was compelling fiction that was created.  

 

White folks are needy too.  They needed someone who spoke to their pain and promised to make things better and on paper 45 is doing just that.  45 will serve out his term and do not be surprised if he wins a second term -- unless Oprah runs and she'll win in a landslide.

 

 

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Fruitvale was another tragic story and a decent film. 

 

Regarding the historical significance of the Black Panther film {yawn}.

 

Del, I don't read the Hollywood Reporter and will not subject myself to straight up gossip and propaganda--particularly on the subject of hollyweird.

 

As far is the MSN article if what you took away from it is that, the Black Panther film is responsible for Saudi Arabia lifting their decades old ban on films, then you completely missed the point of the article.  But given your reverence for the film I understand how that can happen.

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The first film to be shown in Saudi Arabia is the Black Panther. You my friend have missed the point. 

 

Is it a great movie yes. Is it a great film. I  didn't think so. But I recently got into a verbal argument about the film. It is a great film and it is doing great things.  An there is no other film that can compare to its Global Cultural significance  

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Black Panther fever seems to have died down in this country, and blacks are moving on to whatever the next fad or cause is.  Decrying the death of a young unarmed brotha  shot to death in his grandmother's back yard by trigger-happy cops in Sacramento, California, and the events on the premier of "Empire"s new season seem to be filling their latest need to flex their blackness. Also, a lot of curiosity about  the unidentified female who bit Beyonce on the cheek at a glitzy affair.  Ho Hum

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Besides the excellent entertainment it provides, I still maintain that much of the value of Black Panther is in it's ability to INSPIRE.

I considered Barack Obama to be a pretty ineffective "stuffed suit" of a President as far as Black issues are concerned, but just his presence in the White House had the ability to INSPIRE millions of Black children to better themselves with the hope of achieving greatness.

This film is the same.
It's has tremendous ability to INSPIRE Black people to build a bigger and better society for themselves.

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