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Education Plan: Feedback Requested

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Guest Tanny

Greetings all,

 

I'm hoping you might be willing to provide feedback on the following idea.  Thanks in advance!

 

==============

 

1) Every black child born should receive a $100,000 education voucher which can be spent on any K-12, community college, trade school, or university program the parents feel are in the best interests of their child.

 

2) This plan should continue until such time as black and white Americans have, on average, the same level of wealth.

 

3) This plan would cost approximately 60 billion dollars. The vouchers should be paid for by the richest Americans, those who have benefited most from an economic system which has been rigged against blacks for hundreds of years.

 

Please note this statistic from the Washington Post.

 

“The top 20 percent of households actually own a whopping 90 percent of the stuff in America…”

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/ 2017/12/06/the-richest-1-percent-now-owns- more-of-the-countrys-wealth-than-at-any-time- in-the-past-50-years/?utm_term=.a2a20e2a9c80

 

That article also reports that the top 1% own 40% of America’s wealth.

 

Point being, the money is there.

 

What’s lacking is focus and will. Americans are having endless discussions on the general subject of race relations, but we aren’t serious enough to convert those good intentions in to a specific bold plan of action which would make a real difference.

 

Specific. Bold. Effective.

 

Martin Luther King fought for the Voting Rights Act. Like that.

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Hi Tanny I don't think this is a good idea.  First $100K is not very much money and will not cover the costs at a decent 4 year college, let alone K through 12.  Sure it sounds like something is better than nothing, but if everyone has an extra $100K to spend with on education, schools will just raises their tuition because so much money is available.   

 

Now if people could use the money for anything they wanted, I might be in favor of it, but then I'd want to know who would qualify to get the money. 

 

Also, what about the people who are already born and burdened crippled by student loan debt they can never repay?  Who is going to pay that off?  The student loan crisis is a much better problem, that is being ignored. Allocating resources to future generations while continuing to ignore people who are alive is a serious mistake.

 

If you are estimating that it will cost $60B Sergei, Mark, and Jeff could pay that by themselves and still be multi-billionaires, but these folks are very greedy and are not going to get up off anything without a fight -- a fight they have the resources to easily win.

 

A better solution would be to make education through college free, the way it used to be, and figure out how to help the people suffering under crippling debt -- often for degrees never received.

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Yes Troy, I agree education would partially fill the vacuum of inequality through free K-college, but that's not going to happen in our lifetime, nor will Tanny's proposal. But Tanny does have a point. In that such a program would enable Generation X a good shot at getting a fair shake in the lopsided playing field of survival.

 

Personally, I've always endorsed "Reparations for Descents of Slaves." One million dollars to every African American descended from Black slaves. That too will never happen but it's the only one that's been on the table Since Jews refused to apologize for their part in slavery. Furthermore, Reparations would satisfy White/Congressional disdain for entitlements, minus social security for the elderly which could also benefit because Blacks would have the resources to invest in their own retirement. Until the vultures fly in that is.

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Hi guys,

 

Troy, good points.  Yes, more money to serve more folks would be ideal, agreed.  The $100,000 number is just a place to start a conversation.  But we have to keep in mind that somebody is going to have to talk Congress in to hitting their rich buddies with a big tax, and so whatever the right number is there's a limit to what is doable.

 

I also agree that colleges would likely boost rates.  But let's look at it positively.  The fact that the education establishment would benefit financially makes the powerful allies.  If the plan included K-12 we'd have articulate allies in every little town all across America, teachers.

 

Kalexander, thanks for responding.  Let's be a bit more optimistic?  What choice is there?  Bernie Sanders made free college a big part of his campaign and he did really well.  It's inevitable that the political pendulum will swing back to the left, and it looks like that starts this fall.   I think what's needed is a big, bold, specific well thought out plan which can win lots of allies.  I surely don't claim the plan I've outlined is the one true way perfect plan.  It's just a vehicle for getting conversations started on this subject. 

 

I agree with the reparations idea generally, but feel tying it to education makes it much easier to sell.  Also, please note the plan above has a specific target goal, erasing the wealth gap between blacks and whites in a _sustainable_ way. 

 

Thanks again for the replies.  If you have friends who might be interested in this, hope you will invite them in.

 

Whoops, I somehow bolded a paragraph above and can't undo it.  Duh...

 

 

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@Tanny: Bernie Sanders is okay, just okay, but he lost my vote per his comments on reparations, otherwise he would have had my vote. Beware of politicians politicking!  

 

You really need to get it out of your mind that education for Black children is a priority for Congress or the hegemony of this country. The goal has always been to discourage, deprive Black youth from management and leadership roles in America. Those things education prepares children for. Furthermore, unfortunately, there will always be a wealth gap (economic inequality) in any direction you turn. always has been. That's a sociological fact no one's been able to solve.

 

Again, what we need to do, I think, is a stronger push for reparations even if it means tying it to education which is sure to continue it not being considered.

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I worked with a guy whose village in India sponsored his education.

Or you can ask Black people to not watch movies for a year and donate that money.

Factoring waste  you should collect upwards of a billion. That could be the endowment.  invest the proceeds. Half of te income gets reinvested the other half would go to scholarships. 

Fund advance degrees. Then every 10 years fund the next lowest degrees. 

In 30 years you should see some improvements  .

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Tanny

I think this is a noble idea and I salute you for trying to come up with a solution to solve the problems plaguing so many of our young people but I'm gonna have to side with the others and disagree with the plan for a number of reasons.

1. EDUCATION IS PART OF THE PROBLEM.

I'm not talking about TRUE education that teaches people how to read, write, math, and think logically and critically.

I'm talking about this cultural brainwashing going on in most of the the schools and universities in the United States that ruins the esteem of Black youth by:

-teaching them they accomplished very little as a race and are infereior to White people
-teaching them in a heavily left brained manner that most Black people don't learn in
-punishing Black males for being male so that most of them drop out from frustration
-controlling and limiting the way they think and killing their innovation and training them to think like White people.

Even if the educational system were totally free, the way it's structured today would be like sentencing our people to psychological suicide.




2. You want to force the wealthy to pay for this.

 

It's not the RESPONSIBILITY of the wealthy to pay for the eduation of anyone else except their own children.
Forget that little 60 billion you're asking for, this government has TRILLIONS of dollars are their disposal. They've wasted 10 Trillion playing war games in the sands of the Middle East since 2001.....let the government do their damn job and pay for this like Troy said.

It also makes enemies by pitting wealthy people of all races against AfroAmericans.
Everytime a wealthy person of any race sees an AfroAmerican they will feel resentment and some will even feel hatred for being forced to pay of his education.

Since the goverment has trillions of dollars for everything else, let them fund this.


How old are you, by the way?



 

 


Troy

It's about time I start agreeing with you.

I think education should be free from the bottom to the top....from kindergarten all the way up to your PhD if you choose to get one.
But one thing is I would make sure you QUALIFIED to occupy that seat you're sitting in.
I don't want a bunch of dummies sitting up occupying space just because it's free.

Needless to say, if you read what I said to Tanny you'll understand that even IF the education was free I still think it would be disasterous because this educational system wasn't designed by or for Black people.....which is why so many fail even in the free public schools.

 

 


Now if people could use the money for anything they wanted, I might be in favor of it, but then I'd want to know who would qualify to get the money.


Come on Harlem.......lol.

Now you know DAMN WELL you can't put that type of money in the hands of most negroes!

Can you imagine the chaos and buffoonery that would break out in the hood if you let just 25% of AfroAmericans get ahold of 100 grand with OUR mentality?????

Before you clap back, just sit there and THINK about it for a a couple minutes...lol.

Just visualize the Black people from all different sectors YOU'VE known throught out your life getting their hands on $100,000 to do with it as they pleased and what the results would be.

Then get back at me......lol.

 

 




K2

I agree that AfroAmericans need reparations but:

1. It can't be monetary YET.
Most Black Americans aren't psychologically conditioned to handle that type of money in a responsible way yet.

2. Not only should it come from the United States government, but the governments of just about EVERY nation in the Western Hemisphere except for Canada....because they all had slavery.
Not to mention some of the African nations and the Arabs who helped.

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I must agree to NEVER compare ignorance with opportunity, on the one hand; on the other hand responsibility (to handle) money has never been the problem for Black folks, the vultures has always been the problem. Like those bastard banks who cheated Black farmers after the emancipation of Blacks. It was educated Black lawyers and professions (honest ones) who taught Blacks to read the fine print, avoid fast talk, and be responsible.

 

 You should not deny a child her/his allowance just because they may, or may not buy balloon's and cotton candy while the other children enjoy their allowance. It is unfair to deny a Black family resources to complete simply because they may drink it up in alcohol or buy shoes and expensive cars, etc.

 

If a person owes you money they don't have a right to deny it to you because of what you may, or may not do with it. Indeed, white folks have done more foolish things with wealth than Blacks; of course they have, they've had to squander. Blacks have not! And we already know Blacks are going to with such 0pporunity as Whites anyway. Try to impress each other with what they have (materialism); seek favor with the merchants (consumerism); and grip about immigrants tying to take it away. JUST LIKE WHITE FOLKS. 

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K2

 

I hear what you're saying about letting Black people have the same thing other people are allowed to have and not be too judgmental.

However 2 things to keep in mind:

1. We're talking about reparations; something theoretically ONLY AfroAmericans will be getting anyway; so it's not like everyone else will be getting the same benefit we'd be getting.

2. While there are many.....millions.....of responsible mature Black people, too many are SELF DESTRUCTIVE. If you just hand over a million dollars or just 100 grand to them they will not only enjoy themselves but they will DESTROY themselves through their own vices.

A crack head will become a worse crack head.
A drug dealer will only try to become bigger baller with his windfall.
An alcoholic now has PLENTY of money to buy enough liquor to drown himself in
On and on, so forth and so forth......

It's not just a matter of denying them what they're due....it's a matter of SAVING THEIR LIFE.


Hell, you don't even have a good hand full of BLACK BANKS to put the money in even if you got it.
 


What AfroAmericans as a community will first need is a proper KNOWLEDGE OF SELF.

A reasonable amount of our people need to be cleaned up from their self-hatred and their self destructive ways FIRST.....then they will be in proper shape to receive some money.

Reparations isn't simply a one time act, it's a process that will take generations.


 

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I wish, Pioneer1, I could argue with anything you wrote (you already know that), but I cant't, not rationally anyway. 

 

Except, we are talking about a better future for the children, hell, we adults had our shot. Ignorance does not (necessarily) begot ignorance. Besides nature has its way of weeding out the weak, those unable to survive living a fair life. People evolve when opportunity is affored, resources can make the person a better person. Lack thereof can make monsters, stupidity, foolishness, and destroy a person.

 

Right, reparations, though will never happen, would take payments in the form of bank loans for business, loans for housing, and a stake in existing Government entities such as treasurer notes, etc. It is something to fight for, NOW, as opposed to waiting to see how Blacks fair or come up with clean drug tests. 

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K2

 

Black people COULD HAVE gotten reparations under Obama if we had played our cards right.

All we needed was an agenda to present to him like all the other groups.

It wouldn't have taken 500 Black professionals to sit down somewhere in Atlanta or D.C. and whip up a plan to present to Obama on his inauguration day about what they expect from him....but they didn't do it.

Infact, we could get a whole lot more out of Trump than we're getting....if we were smart enough.

 


Besides nature has its way of weeding out the weak, those unable to survive living a fair life


This is true, but the problem is we aren't living under a NATURAL system.
We are living in a synthetic system where artifical people and artificial values are elevated and promoted as ideal while that which is natural is often demonized or portrayed as primitive.
Also the system is constantly modified and manipulated to produce certain results.

This is what happens in most public schools in Western society.

Masculine boys who are aggressive, good in sports, and chase girls trying to have sex with as many as they can......as nature intended.....are called thugs and trouble makers and kicked out only to end up dead or in jail.

Meanwhile the shy nerdy and effeminate boys who don't want sex and aren't aggressive in any way are praised as "ideal guys" and usually do good in school and go far in the academic world and eventually make a lot of money and marry the women of their choice.

I'm no scientist, but I believe one of the reasons autism is so high today is because a lot of "off" men who nature didn't intend to reproduce their genes are getting married and making babies.

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Maybe, Pioneer1, I don't believe Obama would have enacted or pushed for such legislation even with diligent lobbying. He's politician and even his party would have treated him like shit had he considered it. Believe or not, most Black professionals are against reparations too.

 

And, our synthetic system has created stupid people with superficial values since the beginning of time. Since the hunters and gatherers started storing supplies and selling them for a price. 

 

Right again, I think I mentioned on this site before "The Hidden Curriculum" program that teaches Black children to be servants while prepping White children to be managers and leaders. Black young men learn of their own weaknesses and strengths through violence and the 'age old' ways of a patriarchy society. Autism, just another natural cause and effect of human interactions, we shouldn't read more into that.

 

  

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Great discussion guys, thanks for keeping the ball rolling.

 

Ok, let's talk reparations for a bit then.   A few questions...

 

1) What's the price tag on that?

 

2) Who pays?

 

3) How about American Indians?

 

4) If reparations were paid to your satisfaction, are blacks willing to then drop complaints against whites?  I ask this because this is usually how such settlements work.  The person being sued pays up on condition that that's the end of the dispute.

 

I focused on the education angle because I think it's more sellable than reparations, and it creates allies in the education establishment.  If blacks and educators were all on board, the Democratic Party probably will be too.  That said, I'm for any plan which can actually be implemented, and which erases the wealth gap between blacks and whites.

 

 

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The more generations that are created post slavery, the more we mix and mingle with each other the less likely reparations will happen.I suspect the majority of people who have has ancestors in the country for more than a handful of generation are descent from enslaved africans -- including many so called white people.

 

I did not believe reparations will ever happen as it is already too late to practically and fairly distribute any money to the right individuals.  Fighting for reparations, I think, is a waste of time.

 

@Tanny for example how much would Barack Obama get 1/2 a payment?  Maybe he gets zero because he is not descendant from enslaved African.  How much does Obama's kids get?  What about all the so called Black people who are currently passing?  When they come out the woodwork to collect how much should they get?  How much would Canbliasians (sp?) like Tiger Woods get.  Should rich people like Oprah get a check?  Do you see what I mean?

 

I think free education for everyone is a better goal.  @Pioneer1, does have a point in that it can't be the same education that were have been assaulted with. Right now our focus is on STEM with the apparent goal of getting more people to work for Google and Facebook. Our best and brightest are now desperate to work for Facebook or Amazon which is a colossal waste of your intellectual capital it you ask me.

 

The liberal arts including history are treat like a waste of time which I'd argue is why many of us are so gullible and fall for the rhetoric of 45 or are so easily enchanted by a comic book character called Black Panther.  

 

 

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Hi Troy,

 

Do you mean free education for blacks, or free education for everybody? 

 

I like the Bernie Sanders free college for everybody paid for by the rich plan.  I could vote for that no problem.  But that doesn't really address the wealth gap between blacks and whites.  Nor does it address all those for whom college is not the appropriate solution. 

 

It seems to me the economic game was rigged against blacks for hundreds of years, so if we want to talk about fairness and equality, it has to be rigged in blacks favor for awhile.  Not forever, just until the wealth gap is erased.  How to do that though? 

 

I see you guys are concerned about the quality of education currently available.  It seems to me that problem is solved by giving blacks 60 billion dollars worth of vouchers, which they can then spend at whatever schools they feel are appropriate for them.

 

 

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I think Troy and Pioneer make good points. The best solution haso to acknowledge the root problem, people's ability to handle responsibility or consider options. 

 

An endowment with a charter is more flexible and the money could go where it's needed most. 

Home economics classes so people learn about nutrition, how to shop, invest et cetera. This could even be an online course.

 

The biggest problem is ignorance and lack of knowledge. 

 

If Black people didn't go to the movies every other year and invested the money . You would see large scale changes in two to three generations.  We transfer our wealth for baubles and trinkets. 

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@Tanny you ignored my question about how would we distribute the money to so called Black people.  I assume that you think that issue poses no difficulty.

 

The free education I propose would be free for everyone.

 

Please forget about white folks or anyone for that matter rigging the system in favor of anyone else besides themselves.  This has never happened and there is no indication that it ever will.  History teaches us this. 

 

If Black people want anything we have to take it.  Standing around with our hands out waiting for someone to give us something has never resulted in anything positive over the long term.

 

We have to take control of our communities, education, businesses, and our dollars.  But as Del said our biggest problem is ignorance --and this is not a Black problem. 

 

For example, I could talk until I'm blue in the face (and have) about the problems Facebook pose. But even in the light of all the shit Facebook has been shown to have done, people still don't care!  This is largely because we don't know enough to understand why we should care.  Facebook is just one example, one could go on all day with examples.

 

Tanny you are right, the economic game is indeed rigged, but it is rigged against anyone who is not super wealthy -- which is effectively everyone.

 

Finally the reason education is so important is that I can guarantee you a huge percentage of people we give money to will waste it. Look at how many How many people gave their money to school like Trump university a failed businessman with a reality TV show...

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First things first (update tidbit): The U.S. has sent the largest American air and naval strike force since the Iraq war to Syria, The Times of London reports, mustering 10 warships and two submarines in the Mediterranean and Gulf regions. That's a lot fire of power for just a few bomb strikes, not to mention the 'readiness' line of defense waiting for their move!

 

Education Plan: Feedback

 

The Treasury Department is the executive agency responsible for promoting economic prosperity and ensuring the financial security of the United States. 

 

Now, lets look at some numbers: With the addition of  another $1+ trillion towards the U.S. deficit by end of 2018, due to the successful GOP tax scam, $2 1+ trillion total public debt; not counting military and national debt, no way the U.S. will add provisions for speculative promotion of economic prosperity for Black education. Minus verifiable research - if my figures are correct, from 1979 to 2013 Social Security Trust Fund and Cash Flows' already exceeded $3 + trillion; as a reserve fund, revenues earmarked for Social Security benefits can be collected in advance of the actual expenditure. Reparation could be allocated via these advance expenditures, or from the reserve. Is this doable, yes? Why haven't it been considered? I would be remiss to assume expert economists never thought of this!!!

 

In a 2010 HUFFPOST articles: Each year 1.3 million students leave high school without graduating — that’s 7,000 students per day. Only about half of African American and Latino students earn a high school diploma. And the unemployment rate for those without a high school diploma is more than three times higher than the rate of those with a college degree. Thought that figure (most likely) has changed, some perspective history is in order here. In other words, they know, they've evaluated, and they've rejected any and all profound methods to correct error's in Black education.

 

Nothing is going to happen with respect to any of our suggestions here! So, what do we do for our Black community? 

 

FREE K-college education, brother Troy, is little more than a "freedom in sky dream," that will never be on the table. Not with any serious consideration that is. Obama's plan was a good effort in this regard; like his 'ObamaCare' it was to appease the populist, not any segmented group.  Charter endowments, and expectation of direct contributions from the Black community is also unrealistic, Brother Delano, with the like's of Betsy DeVos (advancing Democrat and Republican agendas) is the same as telling basketball, baseball, and football fans Black education is more important than escape from daily life great American past-time. The bugs bunny mentality of comic book enthusiast would pull a spiderman move on you.

 

All the U.S. States who took part in slavery, most every country has apologized for their part, except Jews who acknowledge but refuse to apologize, These could be a source to fund Reparation. That won't happen either though. We're in a conundrum with no light at the end of the tunnel. 

 

Sorry, Tanny! Of your insistence I be more optimistic. I can't because lack of viable options begs pessimism. Your plan, however, is viable, with some tweeking.

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10 hours ago, Troy said:

@Tanny

Quote

 you ignored my question about how would we distribute the money to so called Black people.  I assume that you think that issue poses no difficulty.

 

Sorry, that was a good point.  I hadn't thought of that, and I agree it would be an issue.  But, any plan which is bold enough to be effective is going to have problems and not be agreeable to everybody.  So we can't just toss out every plan with a problem unless we are willing to be happy with the status quo.

 

10 hours ago, Troy said:
Quote

The free education I propose would be free for everyone.

 

Ok, thanks.  What services do you propose to provide, how much will it cost roughly, and who pays?

 

10 hours ago, Troy said:
Quote

Please forget about white folks or anyone for that matter rigging the system in favor of anyone else besides themselves.  This has never happened and there is no indication that it ever will.  History teaches us this. 

 

Rigging the system in favor of themselves.  That's just what I'm proposing.  In this case, blacks, with allies, rigging the system in favor of themselves, for a defined period.  Remember, we are heading rapidly towards a minority majority nation where whites will no longer dominate as they have in the past.  

 

10 hours ago, Troy said:

I

Quote

f Black people want anything we have to take it.  Standing around with our hands out waiting for someone to give us something has never resulted in anything positive over the long term.

 

Again, this is just what I'm suggesting.  If Black people want something, they should take it.  They deserve it, and have the power to get it done. 

 

10 hours ago, Troy said:
Quote

We have to take control of our communities, education, businesses, and our dollars.  But as Del said our biggest problem is ignorance --and this is not a Black problem. 

 

Agreed, ignorance is not a black problem.  The economic system being rigged against blacks for hundreds of years is a black problem, and a white problem too, a problem of our entire society.

 

10 hours ago, Troy said:

 

Quote

Tanny you are right, the economic game is indeed rigged, but it is rigged against anyone who is not super wealthy -- which is effectively everyone.

 

Agree with this too.  Again, see the stats in my first post.  20% of Americans own 90% of the wealth, and we the 80% are fighting with each other over that last 10%.

 

If blacks prefer, we could forget about the historic crime committed against them which affects their situation to this day, and focus instead on shifting the wealth more generally from the 20% to the 80%.  If blacks can make peace with that, I can too. 

 

10 hours ago, Troy said:
Quote

Finally the reason education is so important is that I can guarantee you a huge percentage of people we give money to will waste it.

 

This is surely true.  But by this reasoning we shouldn't be giving new education funds to anybody, right?

 

What I suggest  more generally is, shifting the focus from problems to solutions.  If we think we can, or think we can't, either way we're probably right.

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@Tanny: Your comeback to Troy's commentary is articulated, well thought-out, and defined; except for two crucial points. 1: "[W]e are heading rapidly towards a minority majority nation where whites will no longer dominate as they have in the past." To infer a segmented, marginalized majority has, or will have more power than a hegemonic minority is guaranteed to misdirect your cause. 

 

One police department is more powerful than an entire city because they have firearms and proper training; one-hundred White votes have more juice than one-thousand Black votes because they are better represented in State and Federal Government. And we've already seen how Black politicians see Whites; with complacity, not disdain.

 

2: "20% of Americans own 90% of the wealth, and we the 80% are fighting with each other over that last 10%." As if wealth has ever solved any social problem. Economic inequality is only the symptom of a much larger problem. 

 

I've looked at this in-depth and based the description of my literary fiction novella on 'wealth' NOT the answer to anything except personal, individual security; certainly not for society as a whole. Even with each individual progressing, or achieveing social advancement there's still the ultimate issue(s) of mutual motivations of greed, ethnocentrism, and "survival of fittest" mentalities. Each group looks out for self first before each other.

 

Finally,  of the many factors that brought Europeans to the Americas was freedom of religious expression, escape tyranny of a monarchy, and rankings among socialites; not plutocracy. Plutocracy came much later. Remember, indeed, all the LEADERS of the new-world were already wealthy males who wanted more power, recognized for their wealth which had limited advantage and power among rulers in Europe. They practiced nepotism and bequested power to their heirs. The other new-comers were farmers, con-men, and perverts. 

 

Thus, they designed a document to cement their ethnocentric endeavors and called it the "law of the land." That unless the U.S. Constitution is changed, Black folks will have accomplished nothing. No matter what we do. This won't happen without an invasion from a foreign power or nationwide rebellion from within. Let me tell you that "I pledge allegiance to the flag" crap has more power than you think, especially among Black folk! And, the day a majority of Blacks refuse to pledge further allegiance, that's the day the rebellion begins.

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K2

 

Maybe, Pioneer1, I don't believe Obama would have enacted or pushed for such legislation even with diligent lobbying. He's politician and even his party would have treated him like shit had he considered it. Believe or not, most Black professionals are against reparations too.


Obama had the intelligence and charisma to push anything he wanted to.
He CHOSE not to push for anything of substance that would benefit the Black community and Black people CHOSE not to push him into doing so...so both are at fault.

Most Black professionals are against reparations because:

1. They don't really need it so they don't care about those who do.

2. Many got to where they are because they feel they are exceptionally smart or talented and they feel reparations may put too many "undeserving" people on their level.

 


 

I think I mentioned on this site before "The Hidden Curriculum" program that teaches Black children to be servants while prepping White children to be managers and leaders.


Yeah.
They are called "Montessori schools".
These schools teach mostly White children how to be independant thinkers while the public schools teach you how to fall in line and obey orders.





Tanny
 

1) What's the price tag on that?


A serious study would have to be done to figure this out.

 

 

2) Who pays?

Every government and institution that ever participated or benefited from it.

 

 

3) How about American Indians?

 

AfroAmerican reparations would have to be done SEPERATELY from them, but they definately need to get a PROPER form of reparations for what they went through.

Some would argue that what the Native Americans went through was actually worse than what the African went through.
But again, their issue would have to be done seperately.

 

 

4) If reparations were paid to your satisfaction, are blacks willing to then drop complaints against whites?


Lol, ofcourse not.....

That's like saying once a murder is solved, we should close down the police department and not complain or call them for any other problems......everything is solved, lol.

Racism is an ON-GOING human behavior of which slavery was just an extreme form of.
But racism didn't end when slavery or Jim Crow ended.
And nor should it's confrontation.






Troy

 

The liberal arts including history are treat like a waste of time

 

I agree.
I actually think it's just an excuse for universities to make more money by keeping students at their institution a couple years longer.

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34 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said:
Quote
Quote

 

4) If reparations were paid to your satisfaction, are blacks willing to then drop complaints against whites?


Lol, ofcourse not.....That's like saying once a murder is solved, we should close down the police department and not complain or call them for any other problems......everything is solved, lol.  Racism is an ON-GOING human behavior of which slavery was just an extreme form of.  But racism didn't end when slavery or Jim Crow ended. And nor should it's confrontation.

 

 

I agree with all this.  

 

I'm just pointing to how many whites are going to think about the subject of reparations.  They are going to think of it like a law suit where they have to settle and pay the claimant, but then the matter is settled.

 

In the real world, any significant reparations would be a negotiation where both parties bring something to the table.   Remember, the whites who would pay for reparations were not themselves slave owners or in most cases Jim Crow evil doers.    Reparations are essentially a request that somebody pay for a crime they typically had nothing to do with.  I'm only saying that any serious plan for reparations in some form will have to take these real world realities in to account in some manner. 

 

In the sixties it worked through a kind of good cop - bad cop situation.  Malcolm X types expressed black anger, while Martin Luther King types extended the olive branch.  Black anger today over police shootings and so on is entirely appropriate, but somebody is going to have to play the peace maker role too if reparations were ever to become a reality.

 

I framed my proposal in the context of education because that's something most whites can support.  An education voucher tends to shift the focus of reparations from "pay for your crimes!" to "let's educate the nation".   In the first case whites are painted as villains, in the later they can see themselves playing the role of hero. 

 

My argument here is tactical, not moral. 

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Again, Tanny, I admire your passion, coupled with your very reasonable plan we could start some real shit, until they drown us in it. 

Let's first ask how important education is in the United States of America! We have a separate Governmental agency called the U.S. Department of Education, student loan programs, etc., monitored by the U.S. Department of the Treasurer. Through these agencies countries and people prosper by educating the citizens, who inturn become leaders. NOW, what efforts have been undertaken to deny education to some and not others, and by whom? 

 

From: Oveta Culp Hobby Texas April 11, 1953 - Betsy DeVos Michigan February 7, 2017, every effort has been made to keep Black folks out of the higher education loop. Right down to 'vulture type' collection practices, with Black student debtors mainly in focus. White get to qualify for forgiveness and deferment because they get the jobs that support student loan forgiveness and deferment. That's why so many Blacks go into teaching, State and government employment. And, since it's fresh and new, watchdog monitoring is virtually unheard. Besides, Whites have that covered as well. 

 

Your argument is more than just tactical and moral; it a damn good plan with all the people in mind. Using the argument in support of Black education is the best to get attention to bigger picture, I see that. But Trump is not only finished, by the time he is finished there won't much to fight with, in Congress nor the States. Betsy Devos will se to that. 

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Tanny

 

 

I framed my proposal in the context of education because that's something most whites can support. An education voucher tends to shift the focus of reparations from "pay for your crimes!" to "let's educate the nation". In the first case whites are painted as villains, in the later they can see themselves playing the role of hero.

My argument here is tactical, not moral.


I know exactly what you're saying.
You're looking for something tangible that you think White America can hold it's nose and swallow to help Black people.

However it's going to be hard to "out smart" racist right wing politicians who can smell any type of attempt toward social justice 5 miles away.

As soon as you can come up with ideas to right the wrongs of society they'll come up with ideas to counter them.

When Black people came up with the idea of leaving the South to come North and work in the factories to make good money, they shipped the factories overseas and destroyed the inner cities.

You come up with a plan to give all Black people free eduation at all universities....in 20 years they'll SHIP THE UNIVERSITIES OVERSEAS to Europe...lol.

Then you'll have to travel to Paris or London or Berlin to attend a university.....which means you'll have to get a pass port and be allowed in the country and then you'll need a sponsor and someone to take you in as a border....so the discrimination will start all over again, lol.

I'm not saying all of this to discourage you, I'm saying it so that you will think ahead and be prepared.

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On 4/11/2018 at 8:49 PM, Guest Tanny said:

 

1) Every black child born should receive a $100,000 education voucher which can be spent on any K-12, community college, trade school, or university program the parents feel are in the best interests of their child.

 

2) This plan should continue until such time as black and white Americans have, on average, the same level of wealth.

 

Hi Tanny, 


This proposal assumes educational attainment is tied directly to wealth.  If it were then how could we explain white males who have less than or only a high school diploma have more wealth than blacks who have obtain doctorates in their field?    Currently only about 33% of all americans  over the age of 25 have a college  degree or higher - 37 %  of those who identify as white ; 23% of African-Americans; 55% of Asian-Americans; 16.4 % Hispanic - Americans  - And Africans from Sub-Saharan countries are the highest educated of all imimgrants to the US with 41% of them holding bachelors degree and higher  ...Yet it is estimated by 2053 black wealth will be at 0 if we keep on this path. 

  So I don't think education is the answer to the wealth problem.  I'm all for an educated populace but it's not the answer to wealth disparity.

Links:

Demos.org Why White High School Drop Outs Have More Wealth Than Black College Graduates

Fortune.com More Education Doesn't Always Mean More Money Among Minorities, Study Finds

TheHill.com Census: More Americans have college degrees than ever before

Latimes.com African immigrants are more educated than most — including people born in U.S.

The Guardian.com Median wealth of black Americans 'will fall to zero by 2053', warns new report

 

On 4/12/2018 at 11:24 PM, Pioneer1 said:

A crack head will become a worse crack head.

 

@Pioneer1  that's not a black problem that's a human defective behavior problem - - one of the billionaire Mellon's just passed away allegedly due to his oxycontin abuse problem. He was only 54... 

On 4/13/2018 at 8:43 PM, Troy said:

For example, I could talk until I'm blue in the face (and have) about the problems Facebook pose. But even in the light of all the shit Facebook has been shown to have done, people still don't care!

 

Aside:  @Troy  I didn't even last  a year on facebook.  I had to delete my account again. Not only did I begin to feel like I was losing brain cells... I just can't go there with Mark Z and his scheming ways.  I'm getting ready to delete instagram  next. Soon AALBC will be the only social network I'll use. And of course,  anyone who wants to visit me or track my movements on my websites can but I've had enough of this being a "product" for social network billionaires .  

Ok back to the education question:D

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Mel answered the question I had posed earlier in the thread. What is the root problem. I would say that it is ignorance .

A course in home economics that includes mental physical emotional and financial balance. The course could be a book  a YouTube presentation and a workshop. Were participants pledge 1% of the investment gains in perpetuity to the foundation. 

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6 hours ago, Delano said:

I would say that it is ignorance .

 

@Delano , exactly!  and the use of ignorance here is  not derogatory! At least I'm not offended because money, banking and finance are not easy topics.    Yes, home economics is and was a powerful tool.  I benefited from it growing up - and I actually can feed my family on a budget, make their clothes, repair furniture and balance a check book to name a few things that fall under the umbrella - BUT what I could have benefit from early on is learning how to feel comfortable asking for payment when I share my IP with others.  Understanding value and worth and compensation didn't come naturally for me. 

Coupled that with a system set up where a person of color or a woman are usually under-compensated, chances are it's going to be difficult accumulating and keeping  wealth. If you are black woman, employers feeling justified to pay you 66 cents on the dollar they would pay a white man in the same position.  And that's if you're hired in the first place.  We see the same disparity in funding  technology businesses founded by black women compared to black or white males.    

Just today, I read the U.S. Senate is going to vote (or may have already voted) to roll back consumer protections that insure that auto dealers don't charge minorities higher interests rates on their auto loans.  Here in Georgia they just past a law where taxes are higher on used cars, than new.   So put those two together and you penalized for not buying a brand new car and if you have to borrow then you'll pay a black tax too!

I probably could go on - but I'll end with this - we know that most of our wealth is in real estate and personal home ownership.  Yet,  here's the catch, most minorities are regulated to areas where properties are undervalued because their owners are minorities.   

My home that bordered Clinton Hill, Bed-Stuy Brooklyn  sold for about $350 K in 1992 - My family's brownstone was in peak condition and even had a drive-in garage.  Most of our neighbors were Black.   Today, after gentrification and white flight back to takeover of Brooklyn, the house is in worse condition and the garage is gone... but the property is selling for $2 million.   Even if minorities move to areas where the properties have a high value - those values go down if the balance of white-to-black ratio shifts...

BUT

If the real goal is wealth-building then we're going to need to invest that money into keeping  education PUBLIC!   This way all the schools don't become private forcing minorities to take out even more high-interest loans even sooner than college just to educate their children.   

If we really want to get serious about wealth-building then return state colleges to low-cost and free again.   Then most young people will start employment accumulating assets on the job instead being $100-200k in debt before they get their first paycheck.  


 

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Investing in the financial markets has lower barriers to entry than real estate. And a better return however you can't live in your shares. They each have their pluses and minuses. 

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Eventually, AfroAmericans will need their OWN financial institutions....banks and credit unions.

Because no matter how much money you make, if it's stored in a White owned bank....they can cut off your access to it anytime they get ready and force you to sue them to get it back.
Or they can sell your personal information or use your money without your permission.

There are enough Black people in the United States that we can have a Black credit union in every major urban area.

Ofcourse as long as you're in America the federal government (FDIC) has final say so over your money and can seize it......BUT the fewwer hands you have in your pockets the better.

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14 hours ago, Delano said:

Investing in the financial markets has lower barriers to entry than real estate. And a better return

 

@Delano  Yes, it does and it doesn't discriminate either!    A lot of people think it's too scary to invest or they don't have enough knowledge.  I used a few hundred dollars to day trade and it was exciting.  My method was purchase shares where I shop and pay attention - since the market is very emotional.   Your suggestion is also an intuitive as well.  With this new "tax reform"  taxes are higher on earned income while it seems it will go easy on investment income.  

 

14 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Eventually, AfroAmericans will need their OWN financial institutions....banks and credit unions.


@Pioneer1  I absolutely agree and according to several reports inspired by  #bankblack campaign there are at least 38 blackowned banks and credit unions in the united states as of 2016.  There are even two black-owned banks in Detroit, Michigan

Since the #bankblack campaign, black-owned banks such as the largest One United Bank boast $650 M in assets. It's not $2 TRILLION + chase bank type-assets but it's black-owned.   I joined in on all the hype and this is my next bank for my savings account. 

Links:

WatchtheYard.com 38 Black Owned Banks And Credit Unions: Putting Your Money Where It Counts  

Essence.com #BankBlack: A Listing Of Black-Owned Banks & Credit Unions In The United States 

Oneunited.com ONEUNITED PRESS RELEASES  & MANAGMENT 

MX.com  Money Summitt Biggest US Banks by Asset Size (2018)

Edited by Mel Hopkins
TRILLION not Billion LOL
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I know of one of those Black banks in Detroit.....First Independence.

I went to them to get a car financed years ago and they're pretty decent.

I'm just saying we need many many more than we have right now.

Black people have been in this nation for far too long to have so few financial institutions and I believe it's mostly do to laziness and negligence.
There are plenty of Black people who are good in accounting and managing finances but most of them are putting most of their energy into helping White people manager THEIR money.

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Pioneer it was not just "laziness" that stopped Black people from opening banks. There were many structural problems that make establishin a bank very difficult. 

 

Restrictions on getting property, loans, permits, etc.  

 

When I moved to Harlem I went to the big Black-owned bank in 125th street to open a business account for AALBC.com. they refused to accept my documents -- which were perfectly valid!  I was disappointed and angry because I knew I was making a sacrifice using them--but I was willing to do it and they rejected me.

 

I went down the street and opened an account with BofA. That was 18 years ago.

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Although women have headed the treasurer department since 1949, two of which were Black, Black Americans have been consistently denied fair banking opportunities. Higher interest rates on loans and generally, right to refuse services to anyone they as high risk or not fitting within their established criteria in certain areas of banking. 

 

Imagine that, all women Treasurers of the United States since 1949 while racism and inequality run wild. My first business account too, was with Bank of America; they accepted my EIN, Articles of incorporation and banking resolutions, cash flow estimates, etc. Barclays, on the other hand flat told me that I fail their "SPECIAL SPEC" requirements to do business with them. It would take me 3-years to learn what a 'special spec' was when I applied for a broker's position with Prudential.

 

Never heard the term since.

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Del

Pioneer is your money in a Black Bank?


Not anymore.

I live over 75 miles from the city and the Black banks there don't have a lot of branches so it's not so convenient for me to keep my money there.

But if I still lived in the Detroit area I would.

 

 

 



Troy

 

Pioneer it was not just "laziness" that stopped Black people from opening banks. There were many structural problems that make establishin a bank very difficult.

Restrictions on getting property, loans, permits, etc.


If we were talking about ONE bank or ONE individual, I might buy that.
But over the years I've discoverd that collectively speaking people can pretty much find a way to do what they REALLY want and have a desire to do.

The major reason that there aren't more Black banks with a broader reach has less to do with regulation and red tape and more to do with the LACK OF DESIRE of so many Black people to be financialy independent and being too lazy to put in the work to run a well managed financial institution.

Keep it real.....as long as White banks are taking their money and giving them loans they don't WANT to manage their own money.
Too many of our people....even those with money...would rather buy cars, shoes, and enjoy themselves and let White people do the "head ache" work.

 

 

 

K2

But for real bro.......

If Black people currently or have occupied nearly every position at nearly every level of government in this nation since the 60s.....WHO IS DENYING THEM?????

If White people in a particular office is enacting laws and policies to discriminate....why the hell aren't Black people in THAT SAME OFFICE enacting laws and policies to counter that?

If White bankers and politicians are working together to funnel money from the government to THEIR institutions and commuites.......
Then why the hell aren't BLACK bankers and politicians working together to siphon some of that goverment money to THEIR institutions and communities?

My point is.....
With as many excuses as Black people are making about being discriminated against by Whites in power....when THEY finally have an opportunity to get in that same position most of them seem to sit on thier ass and do nothing to right the wrongs committed.

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Well those are the facts. However, precisely my point, Pioneer1, that's exactly what I'm saying. To assert a further condemnation, our own Black financiers would place white needs before that of the Black community; or, take off the top any concessions granted. I'm reminded of the ignorant, opportunistic 'Precinct Captains' hired by white politicians in the 60's to access community needs, make recommendations, and organize Black votes. Many were given jobs in White financial institutions. But never did anything for Blacks, unless White leaders made exceptions for those who were either a threat or exceptional supporters of White agendas. 

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7 hours ago, Kalexander2 said:

Well those are the facts. However, precisely my point, Pioneer1, that's exactly what I'm saying. To assert a further condemnation, our own Black financiers would place white needs before that of the Black community; or, take off the top any concessions granted. I'm reminded of the ignorant, opportunistic 'Precinct Captains' hired by white politicians in the 60's to access community needs, make recommendations, and organize Black votes. Many were given jobs in White financial institutions. But never did anything for Blacks, unless White leaders made exceptions for those who were either a threat or exceptional supporters of White agendas. 

 

Although it's not a part of THIS thead, in a couple other threads we're talking about feminism and it's impact on the Black community.

Say what you want but atleast when women get into positions of power whether it's economic or political.....they focus on helping other women and aren't bashful in doing so!

Hillary Clinton BRAGGED about empowering women as much as she could not only as First Lady but also in the Senate and talked about what she WOULD DO had she become President.

Michelle Obama as also big on empowering Black girls and women.

Infact, if a woman is in a prominent position in this nation and doesn't atleast claim she's all about helping to empower women and girls....she is shamed to shit.

And you know what?

I ain't even mad at them!

That's what BLACK PEOPLE COLLECTIVELY SHOULD BE DOING!

When we get into positions of power financially, socially, or politicially we should UNASHAMEDLY talk about helping empower Black people in America and right the wrongs and injustices that have been inflicted on our community.

But instead so many of these negroes are so damn scared of getting fired or losing what little position they have that not only will they NOT help other Black people, they won't even mention racism and deny it's existence in some cases.

Some negroes are so scary that they'll even come to work in a red "Make America Great Again" cap sitting on their head if they think it'll keep them their jobs.....lol.

 

Image result for black man make america great again cap

 

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"Don't know what you have against that grammar/spell check but think of it as your friend!" 

 

@Pioneer1: I'm unfamiliar with conversations in those 'other threads,' but can offer, with some degree of certainty, that people behave on self-interests. Act in ways that often serve other members of a group with whom they identify. Most of the time benefits to others is incidental. 

 

I PERSONALLY TRUST FEMALES OVER MALES because of their maternal instincts, if for nothing more. Women think ahead. Naturally preparing for perceived threats to their self-interests; even if it means approving a home loan for another capable child bearing women to assure denial doesn't happen to her. The slightest male influence can change that no matter how determined she stand.

 

I disagree, however, that "women ... aren't bashful in doing so ..." Females as with males, help suggesting incidental social morality to others is 'nominal' at best.  Just because HRC boosted of empowering women does not hold true for all women. HRC was, is indeed a crook, probably the only fact Trump got right. I voted for her though – a necessary bad choice among all the others.

 

Finally, please don't put Black women in the same category of White women with an overactive testosterone gene. Any position of power Black women hold, however deserved or qualified, has nothing to do with empowering her group. Collectively or individually, Black people (better) know their limitations when handed reins of power to stay the White course. The slightest effort to go off course can be unencouraging. Ask the first Black President and the nation's first Black 1st Lady, Michell Obama, who stayed in the media with her own solutions to help girls.

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There are some things I trust males over females.
There are other things I trust females over males.

Usually when it comes to financial business I trust females over males because so many men tend to be so greedy and ruthless when it comes to making money.

But when it comes to sexual issues I usually trust males over females because many women are more confused and more deceptive in their true sexual feelings.
It's not necessarily their fault, but it's the way society forces them to be.

But to show you how deep it is, I know a lot of women who would rather see their brothers, husbands, and boyfriends POOR AND IGNORANT.....broke to the point that THEY would have to support them.....rather than see them wealthy and prosperous and independent.

Why?

Because of the underlaying fear that if these Black men get right then they may leave THEM and to go a White woman to give all their money to.....like so many have unfortunatly done.

But this fear leads to mistrust and the inability for so many Black men and women to help eachother become successful.



 

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