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Mel Hopkins

Pulitzer Prize Winning Emcee

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I hope Beyonce wins next year.  She's the only artist I can recall who has used their platform to communicate the complexities of life for black women in America .  Kendrick Lamarr's experiences are not mine and I've lived the african-american experience far longer than he . I would have preferred the membership designate this prize for his ability to  capture the complexity of modern life of a black man in America... Still, congratulations to KL  for being recognized by a body that I hold in high esteem.  

 

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I think Beyonce is talented.......but I have a problem with her.

She promotes "White beauty standards" with her long blonde hair look.

The fact that she's light skinned isn't a problem because many of our people are.
I'm not the darkest person myself.

However the fact that she's light skinned AND chooses to wear so many long straight weaves tells me a lot about her psychological make-up along with her intentions of actually trying to look like a white woman while singing and acting Black.

Mariah Carey is doing the same thing with all of the blonde highlights.

I'm going to assume that Beyonce doesn't know the tremendous psychological damage she's causing for so many brown skinned and dark skinned Black girls who admire her and want to be like her by making herself looks as much UN-ALIKE these girls as she possibly can.


And another problem I have with her and some of these other artists like and Nicki Minaj and Cardi B is all these funny "ugly" faces they're making in their videos.

You don't see White or Asian girls doing this.
When they make their videos they try to portray themselves as sweet, innocent, and or vulnerable with passive non-aggressive face.
But a lot of Black female artists are scowling and scrounging up their faces and flashing a mad or crazy look through out their videos which looks down right freakish if not demonic.

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@Pioneer1   You've raised another perspective that I didn't  think of when talking about Beyonce' performances and music documenting the black woman's experience in America - but since her mother was a hair stylist and owned a beauty salon , you're correct she even displays the aesthetic experience of black woman in America - one that she undoubtedly saw when visited her mother's hair shop.   

I know I did when I visited my aunt's beauty salon.  Black -women have been donning blonde wigs (now weaves) for as long as I've been alive and definitely before I was born - because I've seen them in my familyphotos..  Still I can see from your perspective as a black man thinking that black women such as Beyonce are emulating the white woman look - but as a black woman  I can share with you this is par for the course of black womanhood.

We've adorn ourselves with crowns of all colors since times immemorial ... our crowns are our glory - and you're correct  many of us do suffer psychologically when our hair ain't did.  

I think any woman who is trying to look like Beyonce is simply a fan... I wore a baseball cap and ponytail pulled through when Janet did Rhythmnation - in fact, a lot of us did. It's just fun. 

 

Now as for her light complexion - you already know we come in all colors sometimes right in our immediate family.  My maternal grandmother was fair-skin with hazel-green eyes.  I have cousins who are whiter than paper - and they had two black parents.  I think the fact that she goes hard to represent black womanhood through all our stages - means a lot to young women.  There's one young Black woman on twitter who went viral because she learned  Beyonce's recent choreography from coachella - and executed it flawlessly.  This young woman looks pretty much how you described those who might be harmed by Beyonce's aesthetics and all I saw from her was high self-esteem.   


 Still you may see different cross section of young women in the black community so I can't speak to that with any conviction,  

 

Links: Twitter imbriyounce 

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This young lady (the one on the right) is extremely talented.  But you will never, ever see her in a Beyonce video. Perhaps she'd have a chance with straight blonde haired weave ;)

 

Speaking a hair colors.  Our sisters have taken to wearing their hair on all the colors of the rainbow.  I mean unnatural colors, for hair, like red, blue, and green.  I've seen a number of young women with weaves that had the texture of yarn.

 

The prospect of any woman wearing the hair "naturally" seems highly unlikely.  I does not matter what Black men think about it.  There's too much money in women's hair and marketers are far to clever and greedy.

 

I see boys in high school rockin' hair doos that would put grown women to shame.  It seems crazy to me that a 16 year-old would put that much time, and money, in their hair, but they are doing it...

 

Oh yeah big up to Kendrick

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8 hours ago, Troy said:

But you will never, ever see her in a Beyonce video.


@Troy , maybe not a video (although I think I did see large women in her formation video) but Beyonce' tours with plus-size dancers and singers.   I saw them in the coachella performance.  I was surprised too - because I don't know of any mainstream artists who uses nontraditional singers and dancers.

Edited by Mel Hopkins

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Ofcourse Black women have been putting on different color wigs and bleaching and blondnig their hair for decades.
But a major reason for this is because many Black women have hated the way they look, hated themselves period, and have wanted to look like and be like White women for decades!

The self-hatred in Black America has existed since slavery and is well over 400 years old.

I understand what you're saying about a sister wanting to look good, keep herself up, and be at her best......but the problem is a lot of our women think LOOKING WHITE (or atleast less Black) IS looking their best!
And too many Black men also think this, which encourages more Black women to try to look like White women in order to get more attention.

I know our people come in all colors and forms.
But when you go out of your way to ALTER your appearance to make it look more White then it's an obvious sign of low self esteem and wishing you could be closer to White.

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12 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

And too many Black men also think this, which encourages more Black women to try to look like White women in order to get more attention

 

And recently Beyonce's father, Matthew Knowles, admitted that his own mother told him not to date a woman with a dark complexion. - He admitted he thought Miss Tina was white. I think that might be another reason Beyonce' goes hard for Black women and our struggles.  She didn't choose her complexion but she never let's folk forget that she's a Black woman. 

Edited by Mel Hopkins

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Yeah @Mel Hopkins I'm just talking trash. I have no idea who or what type of women Bey has in her dance troupe. The last time I watched her perform was during a the superbowl when she had the sisters behind her dressed as Black Panthers (I assume that was the theme).  Still I don't recall any short, plump girls with nappy hair dancing behind her.

 

I had to look up "coachella." I never heard of this festival before you posted about it.  It is still going on.  It looks like whoever is running it is making a mint :-)

 

@Pioneer1, again I assert that changing ones appearance to what you perceive to be as trying to look white is a narrow viewpoint.  The sisters dying their hair blue are not trying to look white?

 

All I'm saying is that the whole industry is far more complex that sad Black women desperately trying to look white to please Black men.  White women are changing their appearances and increasing men are too.  Look at Odell Beckham, is he trying to look like a white woman? 

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1 hour ago, Troy said:

It looks like whoever is running it is making a mint :-)

 

@TroyI heard the Coachella founder is a controversial figure . I had never paid attention to the festival until this year - I

 

Link : Profile of Philip Anschutz  on  Complex.com

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Yeah does not surprise me.  I'm never going to his festival so I don't even care...

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Mel

She didn't choose her complexion but she never let's folk forget that she's a Black woman.


Her image is destroying the self esteem of too many Black girls.

She looks NOTHING like the average Black female.
She pretty much looks like a WHITE WOMAN with a little soul.
But she's routinely called beautiful and attractive by the media, which psychologically says that the only time Black women are beautiful is when they look nearly White.

She's talented for sure, but she wasn't the ONLY Black woman with talent.
She was CHOSEN by the powers in the entertainment industry for a reason.

 

 

 

 

Troy

again I assert that changing ones appearance to what you perceive to be as trying to look white is a narrow viewpoint. The sisters dying their hair blue are not trying to look white?


They are trying to IMITATE White women because White women were the ones who started dying their hair blue and red and green and all of these funny colors and Black women started imitating them.

It's the same with the Black girls who get their eyebrows and tongues and even their clitorises pierced.
The only reason they are doing it is because White women started doing it and in ignorance they are imitating White women.

And it's the same with Black men getting all of these tatooes all over their bodies.
They too are imitating White men in their ignorance.


I know plenty of White men and White women change and alter their appearance but they KNOW why they're doing it.
Many Black people don't know why they do what they do, but they're really doing it to imitate White people.

Take cigarettes for example.........

Black people lived in Africa for thousands of years and didn't smoke cigarettes and probably didn't even have a desire to.
But millions of Africans smoke today!

Why?

Because cigarettes taste good or gives them long lasting erections???

Hell no....they do it because WHITE PEOPLE smoked them.
And because White people started smoking cigarettes and Black people wanted to imitate them and be like them.....THEY started smoking cigarettes too and got addicted!

 

 

My point is, Black men and women have ignorantly imitated White people for centuries in a desparate attempt to get be more like them and be better "liked" by them.
They can tell themselves whatever they like about "choosing" to do what they feel like doing or wanting to change things up....but the truth of the matter is much of what Black people do is either a conscious or subconscious attempt to imitate and get closer to White people....whom they feel are the "ideal people" to be like.

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Mel

 

Do you have any proof or evidence of this claim?


Yes, plenty.......

Look at how many Black girls in parts of the United States and especially in the Carribean are using skin lightening cream.
They don't like themselves....because of low self esteem....so they want to look like someone else.

Look at the amount of Black girls who dye their hair blonde or get blonde highlights.
Again, they don't like themselves...because of low self esteem.

Look at how so many Black girls in this society behave in a loud and aggressive way as compared to many other races of girls and even Black girls from Africa who tend to be more feminine.

Just like a MAN with low self esteem will be shy and passive....the opposite of masculinity.
A WOMAN with low self esteem will be loud and obnoxious and aggressive......the opposite of femininity.
If a girl has low self esteem and feels she can't live up to the standards of womanhood, she'll stop trying to be "lady like"....a sign of low self worth or self esteem.

Even the no-good men that so many Black girls CHOOSE to date is a sign of low self esteem because they feel they don't deserve anyone better.

The suicide rate for Black girls in this society today is among the highest it's ever been.

The proof and evidence of how so many Black females in this society REALLY (despite the front so many put on about being "strong" and "confident") feel about themselves is all over the place for those who are observant.

 

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47 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said:

Yes, plenty.......

 

I'm referring to your claims

13 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Her image is destroying the self esteem of too many Black girls

 

Do you have any psychological studies to prove how black girls and women dress up is a result of low self-esteem? 

@Pioneer1by the way, there are plenty of  psychological studies that indicate hypermasculinity in men and hyperfemininity women are imbalanced. Even gender stereotypes are social constructs.  So I'll just take your observations as a personal opinion - and we all have those. 

Edited by Mel Hopkins
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@Mel Hopkins, one thing you have to understand about @Pioneer1, is that all of his arguments and claims are supported by personal experiences and anecdotes.  Anytime these happen to mesh with reality is purely incidental.  

 

When confronted with science, data, or other facts that run counter to his opinions Pioneer summarily rejects these.  Recently @Delano, has taken on what I'll call a logical relativism in which anything can be true and everyone's opinions are valid. Pioneer's positions have been bolstered by this position.

 

Bottom line Mel do not look for studies from Pioneer and do not expect any that you present to change his mind.  Now if you want to share info here to benefit lurkers and others, please so but don't expect Pioneer to be moved.  He has never changed his position in anything and is indeed unique in this regard.

 

Pioneer how, for example, do you know that white women were the first to dye their hair blue, where did you get this information?  Also were white women the first to braid their hair too?  Is this why Black women do it?  Are they trying to look like Bo Derek or white women in general when they do this?

 

Sadly, the suicides rates are higher for almost everybody Pioneer not just Black women.  In fact, if you want to use suicide rates to bolster your argument, you should know the fact is that the suicide rates are actually highest for white men. Again, I don't expect you to look at the actual numbers or change your opinion, but others reading this may want to know the truth.

 

Finally, Beyonce is just one product Black girls consume and is a part of an commercial ecosystem that markets to and is only concerned with profiting from all of us.  Saying Beyonce is responsible for lowering Black self esteem is like saying Cardi B or Nicki Minaj are.  These women, and so many more product,s are all part of a system that tends to demoralize all of us.  Even white men are not immune to this.

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31 minutes ago, Troy said:

Bottom line Mel do not look for studies from Pioneer

 

@Troy This is great suggestion because I was just about to reach for the duct tape to wrap around my head lol 

31 minutes ago, Troy said:

Sadly, the suicides rates are higher for almost everybody Pioneer not just Black women.

For 2014 :

"The suicide rate for African Americans  females ages 10-19 was 3.11 per 100,000.i  For African American youth (ages 10-19), the rate of male suicides (4.60 per 100,000) was 2.9 times higher than that of females (1.57 per 100,000).

 

https://www.wellspacehealth.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/African-American-Suicide-Fact-Sheet-2016.pdf

 

National Institute of Mental Health has the suicide rates for Black females at 2.1 per 100,000  - but @Pioneer1  no, don't let facts get in the way of your argument :D

 

Edited by Mel Hopkins
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Troy do people generally argue with facts that are counter their experiences?

Troy do people generally argue with facts that are counter their experiences?

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Mel and Troy

I think you two are confusing FACTS with STATISTICS.

Facts are TRUTHS.
That which actually IS.

While statistics are just a bunch of numbers and other data whipped up by "whoever" for whatever purpose.
Some of it may be true, some of it may be false.
But if YOU aren't the one who compiled the information you're quoting and definately didn't gather information yourself.....YOU DON'T KNOW whether the stats you're quoting are true or not.

How do you two know all of these "statistics" you're quoting are true if you have no way of verifying it outside of anecdotal experience or observation?

I don't debate and discuss the way White folks TAUGHT ME to discuss and debate....which is simply regurgitating a bunch of questionable figures and data that THEY put out or atleast approve of.
Because it's an easy way to decieve people and spread disinformation in order to manipulate the public.

To take "stats" that you snatched off some web source or got out of a book and equate that with verified experience is silly....in my opinion.

Say what you will about anecdotes but atleast you KNOW it has truth and merit to it because you've experienced it or observed it for yourself.

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@Pioneer1  facts make up statistics... Even though you can include what ever facts you chose to get those statistics -  Statistics will always contain facts. 

Further those fun-facts are measured. 

So since you don't debate like white folks taught you - then using your personal method of observations and experience - share your 'truths"

 

 how many black girls have committed suicide between 2014-2018?   Who are they? Do they come from two-parent families, Single parent , adopted or are they in foster care?  What were their ages -  0-17? School aged?    Where are these suicides occurring?  Specifically?  east coast, south, west?  Have they left notes to say what was troubling them?  Were they huge beyonce fans?  Were they religious? Was beyonce their religion?  Were these black girls, fair skin, dark skin? light colored eyes, brown eyes? Did they have straight hair, natural hair, colored hair? Did they seek psychological help before they killed themselves?  Were they rich, impoverished? Parents living below the poverty line? Did they go to private school, public school? Were they drop-out?  Why the increase in suicides? 

 



 

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@Mel Hopkins see what I mean?  He's incorrigible.

 

@Delano, when presented with facts that run counter to one's experience rational people simply update their believe system to incorporate the new information.  Of course many people reject this idea because the previously held  believe is too difficult to lets go of or maybe they are too lazy or dumb to think a different way.

 

It is human nature not to change. Change is often hard and requires work.  I believe this is what has made life to stressful for many over the last 50 years. What our parents knew does not help us today. What we know will not help our children.  The best any of us can do learn to cope and adapt to a swiftly changing world.  Otherwise you will not make it in the world, perhaps this helps explains the rise in suicide rates

 

Here is a personal anecdote as it relates to this website.  If I operated he site based upon what I knew and believed back in 1997 his site would not be here today.  Virtually everything has changed since 1997. Things continue to change and change rapidly. If I failed to incorporate new information (yes @Pioneer1 facts and statistics) and apply the new knowledge, this site would be a memory.

 

Anecdotes are important. Skillfully used they can help explain complex subjects in a way that resonates with people.  However if you attempt to understand how the world works through you personal anecdotes you will virtually always be wrong.  

 

Bottom line, Pioneer you have no clue which so called race of women first dyed their hair blue.  But even if you did you still no idea why some Black women choose to do it -- other than the ideas you've formulated based upon your own preconceived notions and biased personal experiences, which have no basis in reality, other what in your head.

 

Maybe @Delano the reality in Pioneers head, or anyone's head, is the reality that you believe to be true -- as opposed to the objective reality?  Is this the proper take on you accepting Pioneers ideas?

 

Pioneer where one of those brothers that used to make fun of Black kids who spoke "proper English?"  Did you tease Black kids who tried to do well in school by saying they were "acting white?"  I tell you man when you say stuff like"I don't debate and discuss the way White folks TAUGHT ME to discuss and debate." It requires the same mentality and that mentality is destructive.

 

 

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Mel
 

I've only known one Black woman who I knew FOR SURE committed suicide and she was suffering from depression as well as some social issues.

I didn't say some statistics didn't contain facts, I said you couldn't VERIFY them.

How can you verify a bunch of numbers and other information written down on paper or on a screen?

You don't know if what you're quoting is true or not.

 

 


Troy

When presented with new information that is VERIFIED AS TRUE then ofcourse I will update my beliefs, but simply TELLING me that "such and such" is the truth or is a fact doesn't pass the sniff test for me.

What type of fool simply believes anything anyone tells them and even changes their life accordingly?

No, PROVE TO ME that what you're saying is indeed truth.....and my idea of proof isn't some numbers on a sheet of paper.


 

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Pioneer again pointing your to web based sources are asking you to visit the library is pointless.  Time and time again you've demonstrated that nothing I present will dissuade you from your beliefs.

 

Rather than having me "prove" the validity of the data others have already collected, why don't YOU prove anything you've said.  I've already asked you twice to provide proof that white women were the first to dye their hair blue or that Black women dye they hair blue to be like white women.

 

You've ignored the questions and you'll ignore them now because you can't produce anything, besides your imagination. to substantiate your statements.

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Troy

 

Rather than having me "prove" the validity of the data others have already collected, why don't YOU prove anything you've said. I've already asked you twice to provide proof that white women were the first to dye their hair blue or that Black women dye they hair blue to be like white women.

It's history.
It happened in the distant past and is no longer tangible.
Unless I had videos of the event, I couldn't prove it any more than you could DISPROVE it.

However based on evidence such as art work, paintings, and historical references we know of no cases where Black women either in Africa or the Americas were dyed their hair blue.

Only in the United States AFTER White women started doing it atleast back in the 50s, do we find Black women starting to dye their hair blue.

There are no reports, art work, sculptures, paintings, ect....in Africa of Black women making their hair BLONDE.

Again, the only reports of Black women who dye their hair blonde is in the Americas AFTER coming into contact with White women.

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15 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

I've only known one Black woman who I knew FOR SURE committed suicide and she was suffering from depression as well as some social issues.

I didn't say some statistics didn't contain facts, I said you couldn't VERIFY them.

How can you verify a bunch of numbers and other information written down on paper or on a screen?

You don't know if what you're quoting is true or not.

 

@Pioneer1  

Ok, then you understand that this is EXACTLY what you are doing when you represent YOUR experiences and observations as truth.   

 

At least the studies that contain the statistics include an abstract,  raw data and , methodology of how they've come to the conclusion.  Further they don't rely on others having experienced or observed the same to come to their conclusion.    Even after the presentation the author will state this is our conclusion.   Conclusion does not equal truth.  

So like I wrote earlier that's your opinion, experience and observation -I don't agree with it but I do appreciate you sharing it - because it does at least advance the conversation and provokes some metaphysical thought. 

 

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How can you verify anything you rradio or hear? You can check the methodology? Mostly it's a function of reputation. Basically it comes down to replication or if something is repeated. Of you hear  news story from credible sources you have more confidence it is true. However even on science or scientific experiments there is bias.

 

The question of verification is he flip side of my argument there aren't any objective facts. While Troy may believe there are,  I don't think so. At best there are statements that a significant number of people believe are true at a given point in time

 Or to the best of our collective knowledge. 

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42 minutes ago, Delano said:

How can you verify anything you rradio or hear? You can check the methodology?

 

@Delano  Since I spent several years in broadcast news - I don't trust anything I hear on the radio/television. I understand how broadcast news works. 

  If it's of interest to me or if I need the information for survival - I verify with the proper agencies.  I know not everyone does that but when you work in news you have to get your information  from primary sources - second at best.   So if I hear on the radio there's a case of salmonella contamination with the current crop of romaine lettuce chances are I'm not going to purchase romaine lettuce.   I  haven't tested it - nor do I have the tools to confirm or deny there's contamination but since I got a notice from Georgia's department of agriculture stating there is ... I'm going to trust  it..   So yes, outside of opening up my own lab in the basement, I'm going  I trust the departments we've set up to check our food.  Is it an objective fact?  Who knows maybe another type of test will turn up no contamination - but I'm simply going to avoid all romaine lettuce for awhile.  

 

By the way, isn't saying there are no objective facts, is in fact an objective fact? 

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@Mel Hopkins:

"We've adorn ourselves with crowns of all colors since times immemorial ... our crowns are our glory - and you're correct  many of us do suffer psychologically when our hair ain't did.  

I think any woman who is trying to look like Beyonce is simply a fan... I wore a baseball cap and ponytail pulled through when Janet did Rhythmnation - in fact, a lot of us did. It's just fun."

 

THANK YOU FOR SHARING THAT PRESPECTIVE! I went back through my files on the evidence/arguments presented to US Congress that inspired Civil Rights legislation, photos of dark complexion Black women wearing blond wigs with 3-6 of their Black children/infants in Chicago's community aid offices; 'they say,' supported psychological trauma allegations for discussion that Black mothers were traumatized into mimicking White mothers to provide for their children, or words to that effect.  

 

NOW, I realize it is quite possible these women were 'only adoring themselves' without attempting to mimic White women. After all, can't Black women attain their own identity of beauty, if only for fun, without trying to be some-one else? I'm inclined to contemplate this further! 

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Mel

 

Ok, then you understand that this is EXACTLY what you are doing when you represent YOUR experiences and observations as truth.

At least the studies that contain the statistics include an abstract, raw data and , methodology of how they've come to the conclusion.
 

I understand the point that you're making that you'd rather trust a systemic method of collecting data rather that simply trusting heresay.
My issue is WHO the data is coming from and how trustworthy are they.
What are their motives for collecting the data in the first place and do they have a history or presenting false data?

You can't call all data or information someone or some institution presents to you - "facts".
Because all of it may not be true.

You yourself just said:

"Since I spent several years in broadcast news - I don't trust anything I hear on the radio/television. I understand how broadcast news works"

You KNOW data and figures can be manipulated and skews and out right fabricated depending on the motive of whoever is presenting them so you out of everyone in here should have the most understanding of my skepticism!

So unless a TRUSTWORTHY person or people are the ones presenting the facts then why should you trust them?

 


 


Del


Of you hear news story from credible sources you have more confidence it is true. However even on science or scientific experiments there is bias.


EXCELLENT point.

If the person or people who are presenting this information to you (I don't call them facts unless they've been verified) have a HISTORY of being dishonest and bias...why would you believe their data?

 

 

 

 


K2

 

After all, can't Black women attain their own identity of beauty, if only for fun, without trying to be some-one else?

And my answer is.....OFCOURSE they can.

And they do, with styles like twists and locks and braids.

But when they dye their hair BLONDE this it's a clear indication that they are attempting to present themselves as closer to "White".....whether they're doing this consciously or subconsciously.

The same goes for when they "relax" and straighten out their kinky hair.
It's clear that they see straighter hair as more attractive because of it's association with Whiteness.

 

 

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@Pioneer1:

 

Common sense involve the nervous system's sensory mechanisms. This is also a human, innate, verifiability method of simply 'knowing' a thing has validity without outside sources. COMMON SENSE, AS OPPOSED TO "UNCOMMON SENSE." (common-sense realism) (philosophy) The doctrine that there is an external, material world that we perceive directly, that it exists whether we perceive it or not, and that what we perceive is the way things are.

 

However, associated with a hostility to complex theories; potentially misleading since common sense tells us many things that have been proven to be false." But you have to prove it is false.

 

"Are you all seriously gonna sit up here and tell me that these Black women straightening their hair and or dye it blonde have NOTHING to do with the inferiority complex that White society has instilled in so many Black people after 500 years of contact and oppression? 


They're just doing it because they "feel like it"? 


I thought this matter was pretty much understood by most since the time Malcolm X was teaching." 

 

Not only because they "feel like it," but also because it could be part of their indoctrination into womanhood.  

May I ask you, again, as to why you choose 'sideburns' as part of the image you admire? Did you not say, sideburns reflect 'manliness,' or were you mimicking White boys of "love fest hippie age?" With bell bottom jeans and 'road flare' colors? What exactly is the reason choose the tie (not bowtie lol!) and another garment?  

 

Your argument fails even further when one considers the psychology of 'pleasure,' another credible argument that would support Mel's assertion. 

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On 4/22/2018 at 10:36 PM, Delano said:

Troy show me anything objective, that all people can agree upon.

 

@Delano I don't understand the point of your question.  If something is "objective," by definition, we'd all need to agree on it, right?

 

@Pioneer1, when was the last time you read a book and what was the title?

 

 

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K2

Common sense isn't common to everyone.

I personally believe that what's common sense to most White men isn't common sense to most Black men.....and probably differs between Native American and East Asian men.

What's "common sense" to you really depends on your cultural up bringing and the structure of your mind.

 


 

Not only because they "feel like it," but also because it could be part of their indoctrination into womanhood.

May I ask you, again, as to why you choose 'sideburns' as part of the image you admire? Did you not say, sideburns reflect 'manliness,' or were you mimicking White boys of "love fest hippie age?"


Sideburns can be achieved NATURALLY and are grown NATURALLY by men of most races.
Any man who can grow hair and a beard can grow sideburns.
The only men who can't may be Native Americans who generally don't grow beards.

 

 

 


Troy


when was the last time you read a book and what was the title?


About a couple months ago......Wheat Belly!

 

 

Image result for wheat belly

 

 

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Troy

I forgot to mention back when you sarcastically asked was Odell Beckham trying to be a White woman......

 Believe it or not MANY young Black men today are both consciously and subconsciously trying to be White women!

They feel being a "man" is too hard and comes with too much stress and frankly, many of them are confused on what manhood is.

They look at how White women are pampered in this society and how they seem to be able to say and do anything they want and everyone comes to their rescue and comforts them and does favors for them and growing up watching this......many young Black men have come to the conclusion that life as a WHITE WOMAN is much easier than trying to grow up and be a Black man.
 

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What you 'believe' and what's 'common' are two different ideas Pioneer1; Notwithstanding universality, common sense is a prevalent often occurrence. Your 'belief' a Whiteman's common sense is different from a Blackman's common sense is unfounded. And you can't prove it. But let's not get into a philosophical argument as culture and up-bringing has more to do with ways of beliefs, traditions, and customs, which does occur uncommonly among different groups

 

Back to the point – 'Black women adoring their bodies' for beauty or fun. So, you submit that if the body doesn't produce a feature naturally then it is psychologically unhealthy, pretending to be someone else? Honestly, my response to that is inappropriate and judgmental, so I'll refrain. Man, the Black women is about the only species among the Black population less likely to be phony. Certainly, no more than any psychological phenomenon common among all women.  

 

The way you think, and speak, Pioneer1, would cause one to deduce you are White. But, I trust brother Troy's insistence you are not a White man, or a troll.

 

"They look at how White women are pampered in this society and how they seem to be able to say and do anything they want and everyone comes to their rescue and comforts them and does favors for them and growing up watching this......many young Black men have come to the conclusion that life as a WHITE WOMAN is much easier than trying to grow up and be a Black man."

 

WOW!!! 

Jealousy of Black folk has little to with White appearances and more to do with White bank accounts, period. Where exactly do you get this stuff? LOL!   

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Whoa hold everything. I can't vouch for pioneers appearance -- he hides it from everone. He could be a gay, white, mason for all I know 😲

 

Pioneer I wonder if you would tell Odell to his face that you thought he was a white woman?

 

Look like most dudes from the baby boomer generation I think these young cats spend way to much time at the hairdresser, but I would stop short of believing he wants to be a white woman.  Michael Jackson perhaps, Odell I doubt it. He just wants attention.

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