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Lemonade and bell hooks


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I think Beyonce is first and foremost a corporation. While I think Jay-Z has both mellowed and mature. They strike me as business first. It  is possible they are becoming philanthropic. However to say Beyonce is a feminist is a stretch for me. but I could be behind the curve. 

 

This seem more feminist and positive or less ego centrice. 

 

http://www.okayplayer.com/music/sampa-the-great-black-girl-magik-music-video.html

I  am not certain how Beyonce is both showing women as victims and acting as the patriarchy. Perhaps I need to watch Lemonade again.

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6 hours ago, Delano said:

However to say Beyonce is a feminist is a stretch for me. but I could be behind the curve. 

 

@Delano, First  I believe it's important to define feminism before we can determine who is a feminist and who isn't.  In Beyonce's last performance (Coachella) she defined what feminism means to her via soundbite from Chimamanda Adichie’s TED Talk  (“a person who believes in the social, political, and economic equality of the sexes”) .    

For the record, I subscribe to that definition of feminism too.  I believe feminism is about equality wherever law governs a country.   To date we still haven't had Equal Rights Amendment ratified in the U.S. constitution.   We've been fighting for this inclusion since 1923 - this year the  37th state has ratified the amendment.  One more to go or I think we have to start all over again.  

 

Bell Hooks is on some other stuff , not quite sure what?  but I appreciate her right to have her view too. Sometimes, I think she just wants to eradicate men altogether...:o   

As far as Beyonce' being a corporation I agree. She is.  Who wouldn't  want to be in this day and age lol... Especially with the new tax reform legislation.  I think most of us better get a EIN and have our employers sign over checks to our corporation. 


And you aren't that far behind the curve,  BeyGood is her foundation and through it she collects donations and also gives money here and abroad.   

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EIN, you know thats is right.  If it were not for the current tax law AALBC.com would not exist -- full stop.  

 

So a feminist is "...a person who believes in the social, political, and economic equality of the sexes."  Then I'm a feminist, but it just seems like anyone who believes this is just a fair human being.

 

I don't believe men are women are the same as in interchangeable.  I believe that men and women have many, often profound, differences.  Differences that should be acknowledged and not ignored as if they don't matter.  Am I still a feminist with this belief system?

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Yes that's a workable definition for me. 

I'll check out her foundation. Usually there more about tax breaks and paying your inner circle well .

However I will look at their financials and report back. 

There is the man haring aspect of feminism.  I once got thrown out if a lesbian bar and I got harasses at a lesbian party. I have had positive experiences with lesbians as well.

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Two points....................


1.A feminist....according to the very word itself....is focused on the advancement of that which is FEMININE.

So how can it promote "equality" when it's focus is one sided?

If it were truly about equality then why not change the name to  femino-masculinist.....or a masculo-femininist.....in an attempt to denote a more equal focus on BOTH genders?



 

 


2. I have to question the concept of "equality".


I personally believe in JUSTICE.
If you say give everyone a fair opportunity to earn what they deserve and live the type of life they want to live without restrictions and putting obstacles in their way because of race or sex.....that's one thing.
But when you talk about EQUALIZING things between men and women socially, economically, ect.....I wonder how can you do that without eventually being UNFAIR to an innocent person?

Should we make sure that every job has the EXACT SAME number of male and female managers and employees on it?

Should we go into every neighborhood, tally up the sexes of the home owners , and MAKE SURE that there are just as many female home owners as male home owners.  And if we find that MORE WOMEN own their homes than the men then should we TAKE SOME HOMES AWAY from the women to equalize them with the men?

 


Right now the jails are overwhelmingly men, should we focus on letting more men go....or focus on incarcerating more women?

See my point about this concept of "equality"?

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Women earn less than men and generally have custody of the children in a separation. 

So women shouldn't be earning less than men.

There are three solutions and equal fair and progressive.

Equal all pays the same. 

Fair you get paid based on your experience. 

Equitable there are differences based on promoting change 

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12 hours ago, Delano said:

BeyGood is not listed as a foundation. 

 

@DelanoThank you for the correction. 


 

Quote

" BEYGood is not a foundation, which surprises a lot of people, and we don't intend to make it a foundation. We partner with credible organizations that are 501(c) (3) and use our platform to help leverage theirs. So, we create partnerships, to develop programs, that benefit the people; that's the umbrella of BEYGood. We are a movement to inspire people to be kind, be generous and be good."



Then this is even better because according to an article in Essence  BeyGood lends muscles to the 501 (c) 3 that are already doing the work and raises funds for them to carry out their missions. The articles states Beyonce' also gives money but it's her celebrity that gets others involved such as Gucci giving $1million for clean water in Burundi African nation.  

 

*Link Essence.com Beyonce Gucci BeyGood-4-Burundi Clean Water 

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  • There are more Black women in college and earning degrees than Black men.
  • \Black women are less liked than Black men to be murdered by police, indeed murdered by anyone,

We can go back and forth with these whose lives are better easier, but that is the wrong way of looking at it.

 

Women, like Black people are, are marginalized so that the oligarchs can maintain power.  The concept of "race," that so many hold on to, was used to justify the enslavement of people from the African continent.  This is not to say that we should not fight racism, but we should understand where it came from.

 

The same goes for sexism. It really has nothing to do with women; it has to do with power.  The only people allowed to vote originally were rich, white landowners. This is the same goals in place today maintaining control for the wealthiest. Many don't even realize Black men were given the right to vote before white women!  

 

We should fight for equality for women but, we must be clear what the underlying problem is, because because a different tactic will be deployed to result in the same out comes if we are not careful.

 

Civil rights activists marched for school integration and today, 60 years later, NYC schools as well as many districts across the country, are as segregated as ever.  Legalized segregation has been outlawed but the desired outcomes remain the same and power is retained by those in control by virtue of great disparities in access to a quality education.

 

 

 

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This has little to do with sexism and more to do with attacking Black males and Black masculinity.

This entire "feminism" movement among Black women is a farce because Black men have NEVER treated Black women in the institutionally sexist and abusive way that White men have treated White women..

Yes, Black men on an individual level have been abusive and done wrong, but we have never CODIFIED it or put in in the law or made religions out of debasing women like Whites have.
Yet I don't see White feminists or White women in general fighting White men like so many Black feminists fight straight Black men.


These Black women are being USED by both racist White men as well as White feminist women to destabilize the Black community and cause anger and chaos among us by further turning Black women against Black men.

And the next step after turning them against Black men is to turn them ON to White men with money.

If you notice, there's a lot more Black women walking around on the arms of White men today.

Some of these same Black women who claimed to be so strong and independent when it came to Black men just a couple decades ago, now  READILY submit themselves to the authority of White men with money and leave all of their "feminism" behind.

 

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15 minutes ago, Troy said:

indeed murdered by anyone

 

Except black and indigenous women have the highest rates of homicide rates with more than half being killed by their spouse or intimate


But yes, statistic show women have a low rate of murder and/or state-execution in the street.  The most recent   DeCynthia Clements  Elgin, IL in March

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Keep in mind that, "...men are more likely to be involved in a homicide than women. Seventy-seven percent of homicide victims are men, according to the FBI, while more than 90 percent of known offenders are male." But yes, when Black women are killed it is most like to be a spouse or intimate partner.

 

I would argue that these Black men are taking their frustrations our on their spouses.  Their anger is misdirected so their reactions are tragically inappropriate.  Our upbringing, lack of education, and racist culture make this type of behavior inevitable.

 

Has anyone noticed that white male life expectancy has gone down in a the last couple of years?  They are feeling the pressure too, but have even less of a clue what is causing it.

 

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8 minutes ago, Troy said:

Has anyone noticed that white male life expectancy has gone down in a the last couple of years?  They are feeling the pressure too, but have even less of a clue what is causing it.


I didn't realize that it had gone down but I remember being  the first one to do a full-blown  report on their sucide rate going up - right here in the aalbc forum..:)

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Troy and Pioneer I have a problem when you say feminism is less important or even dangerous to the black cause. Then rationalise black male violence towards black women. 

 

Troy can you provide some evidence of black men having the right to vote before white women. Since I recall the suffragette movement had the slogan women first negros last. 

I am still not certain about the Carters. Even though the appear to be less self serving. 

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There is NO WAY IN HELL anyone is going to sit here and tell us that Black and "indigenous" (whatever that means) women are being killed by Black and "indigenous" men at a rate more than White men are killing White women.

All of these White men committing murder suicides all over the nation where they're killing themselves AS WELL AS their wives, children, and even the family dogs ....every day.

There are probably many many more that haven't made the media and probably have gone unknown because of rich White men paying people off to cover it up!

There is no comparison.

No way.


Troy is right in the other thread....I DO NOT CARE what the "stats" say.




Del

 

Troy and Pioneer I have a problem when you say feminism is less important or even dangerous to the black cause. Then rationalise black male violence towards black women.


I'm not trying to rationalize or justify Black male violence towards Black women.
Just putting it in perspective.
Especially given the INSTITUTIONALIZED violence and oppression that not only White women but women of ALL races have faced at the hand of White men for over 5 centuries.


Black men BRIEFLY had the right to vote before White women during the period of Reconstruction right after slavery.
We also held a lot of high Federal political offices in Congress as well as being judges and sheriffs during that period.

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@Delano I did not write feminism is less important or even dangerous to the black cause.  I'm not sure where you got that.  What I'm saying is that keeping women down and Black people down are all about power. 

 

As far was Black men being allowed to vote before Black women  Pioneers statement is correct and sufficient to provide the point.  Black men were also able to vote throughout  the country at different times as well (this you can easily find yourself). Black people were allowed to vote in NY State during the 18th century provided they met the property requirements. 

 

Of course this does not stop evil, power hungry white people from disenfranchising Black folks to this day. Today felons in the state of Florida can never vote even after they served their time.  This might partially explain why Trump won the state.

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Troy I ask for evidence and you are quoting Pioneer.  Oh Ok that's all the evidence I need. 

 

How many Black women were  in primary roles in the civil rights movement.

Troy basession in your statements Black women need feminism. 

Troy I ask for evidence and you are quoting Pioneer.  Oh Ok that's all the evidence I need. 

 

How many Black women were  in primary roles in the civil rights movement.

Troy based on in your statements Black women need feminism. 

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@Delano, I'm a little surprised at you regarding your knowledge about Black men being able to vote before white women... well maybe not so much that, because I'm pretty confident most people did not know this.  But it s easy to look up I'm not even sure why you are pressing me to produce proof for something so easy to find.

 

I don't mind quoting @Pioneer1 when he is right.  If you notice he referenced history rather than saying all the Black men he knows voted before any white women he knows 😉

 

 You won't get an argument from me about whether Black women need feminism, because they probably do.  But feminism, like racism are tools used to keep us all down.

 

 

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Well I say it's harmful......

It's not harmful that women want to be treated fairly and protected from abuse.....that's justice.

But what is harmful is WHO is pushing feminism and WHY they're pushing it.

Feminism in the Black community didn't come FROM Black people, it came FROM racist White people who are attempting to FURTHER manipulate and disrupt and destablize the Black community in general and the Black family in particular.

Racist White women who PRETEND to be strong and independent will sit up and tell Black and Brown women and girls that they don't need men in their lives and that they should stand up to their men, confront them, argue with them, fight them, and leave them for the slightest insults.

Yet THESE SAME White women after doing all this preaching to Black and Brown females will THEMSELVES go back home to the suburbs and by good little housewives to THEIR husbands!
Their husbands will beat them, make them have sex with animals, and even kill them and chop them up but they'll STILL remain loyal to these men!

But if a Black woman catches her Black boyfriend having sex with another woman she accuses him of being SATAN INCARNATE!

That's what feminism has done to the Black community.



Don't forget that over 53% of White women....the same ones pumping their fists in the air claiming feminism.....voted for Donald Trump!

Some of the same women that were marching on Washington D.C. in 2017, voted for Trump in 2016!

If you go on most college campuses today what you'll see if few Black males but plenty of White males with girls of ALL RACES studying, partying, and having a good time together.

This is what "feminism" is really about.

Prying women of color out of the arms and away from men of color and bringing them to White men both young and old to enjoy.

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@Delano, since men and women need each other for survival, why can't men weigh in on the subject of feminism? 

 

It goes without saying each of us should be allowed to make out own decision about what is right for us, but our decisions should not be made in a vacuum, would you agree?

 

I saw a woman in one of those getups that some muslim women wear, you know where only your eyes can be seen.  Now I have no problem with a women wearing this if she wants.  But there are some who are actively fighting against women dressing in this fashion. 

 

Many of these women are feminists -- are these feminists right or even justified in trying to erdadicate this type of restrictive and impractical clothing?

 

topelement.jpg

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Del

When I was talking about what White women put up with from White men, I was talking COLLECTIVELY.

Meaning as a GROUP they tend to put up with their men abusing them, forcing them to have sex with animals, and killing them.
Obviously not all of them get killed by their husbands.

But collectively, many of them understand this possibility but still continue to pledge their loyalty in the name of White supremacy.


 

 


Troy

If it were up to some Evangelical and religious extemists here in the United States, women HERE would be wearing the exact same thing.

Look at the Amish women and Mormons and some of the other extremist groups that live way out in the desert and rural areas of the West and how they have their women dressed like something out of the 1800s.


Infact, you can look at most NUNS and how they dress in the Catholic Church and tell that they aren't too far away from what the Muslims are doing in the East.

 

 

Image result for nuns

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If you are outside the group just stay in your lane. That's my philosophy. 

Men and women live in different worlds. If you're a guy walking at night you have different concerns than a woman. You may be worried about getting robbed but your not worried about getting raped. For most guys that's not likely and hence it isn't part of their world.

So women have certain experiences that are inaccessible to men. Which is why I say women decide this issue.

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So @Delano, do the female feminists have a right to fight against the clothing some muslim women wear?

 

Man, as far as lanes are concerned where do you draw the line?  That is like saying to a white american. "it is a Black thing -- you can't understand."  It is a is a cop-out and speaks to an unwillingness or inability to explain.

 

We all have lanes and at a certain point the lane can be very individualized.  I would bet you money that there are some women that understand, and really "see," you better that some guys do.

 

To me saying that men should stay completely out of an conversation that involves women (or vice versa) is short sighted and unnecessarily limiting.  I'm not saying men should make the final decision for women, I'm saying rejecting male input is narrow minded.

 

@Pioneer1, I'm making a completely different point.  Now if all Catholic women had to dress like nuns then your point would be a valid comparison, but still not relevant to my point.

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So @Delano, do the female feminists have a right to fight against the clothing some muslim women wear?

 

Being narrow minded is not an option that I would ever choose.  My default position is not one of understanding, but of one trying to learn.  We are all unique -- even women are not a monolith and given the same information we will conclude different things -- not even all women will agree.  I believe the best decisions do not come from individuals but through the senthesis of our collective wisdom.  

 

Of course I understand the reality is that sharing your wisdom rarely happens, because it is hard.

 

Plus there are people, like you, who don't even believe it should be done. Then there are people who fight against this for reasons of power and control.

 

 

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I am using your definition of narrowness. 

 

Yeah I have given up discussing most topics. Not because of disagreement  but because the oppositional conviction. An example is anyone thinking Bill Cosby was setup. He admitted in2005 he purchased quualudes for sex with young women 

21 hours ago, Troy said:

 

To me saying that men should stay completely out of an conversation that involves women (or vice versa) is short sighted and unnecessarily limiting.  I'm not saying men should make the final decision for women, I'm saying rejecting male input is natrow minded 

You and I discuss hip hop from a similar perspective. That is not accessible to those who don't share our demographic.

A white person has at best a second hand experience of racism at best. Does it disqualify them to discuss race absolutely not. 

 

My position on racism is that white people need to talk to other white people. Black people have been afforded human status yet. 

31357761_10156720789581412_3562119629033701376_n.jpg

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This cartoon illustrates my point perfectly @Delano

 

The cartoon is brilliant, communicating the hypocrisy dramatically.  The cartoonist Drew Sheneman is a white guy.  His insight is on point and communicated in a manner that I and I suspect most other Black people would be unable to.  Saying Drew can;t be part of the conversation because his white, I again is limiting.

 

I'm glad you shared this cartoon, because you clearly understand and agree with what I'm saying, even if you are not prepared to admit it now.

 

"It's a Black thing, but a white man can understand."

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Del, it does not have to be me that speaks for, or advocates for, women. It's not about you or me it's about the general case of excluding any man from the conversation.

 

Surely you must realize there are men out there who would be great warriors for women's rights. There are men who fought for a women's right to vote even when women wouldn't. Some women didn't want the right to vote felt it was a man's job. Indeed, there are women who still feel that way today. 

 

There are men right now who are fighting for women's right to choose. And there are women who are fighting to stop all women from having an abortion. Again just because you have a penis does it make you ineligible to understand or fight for rights for women.

 

This seems obvious to me and I'm not even sure why you're debating it with me. Of course there are ultra-feminists that would agree with your position and probably would eliminate all men if it were biologically possible for them to procreate without us but again they are the extreme.

 

Again  it's like saying you don't want white people creating cartoons, like the one you shared, advocating for black people because they are not black. Naturally there are the Uber-Black folks who don't want white folks advocating for them. But they too are extreme, in the minority, and unnecessarily narrow minded.

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My response was not that long... was it too long for you to read?  

 

The answer to both questions is no.  My response was an attempt to elaborate on why the questions are irrelevant to the discussion at hand. 

 

@Delano, you like to make these debates about me specifically.  I'm not purporting to be the appropriate spokesperson for women or feminism -- any more than I can personally provide climate change, the lack of a genetic basis for race, or any of the things that we all take for granted as being true.

 

1 - You believe that no man can be a feminist. 

 

2 - You believe white people can advocate for Black people.

 

You don't see the contradiction between #1 and #2.

 

 

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A man can support the feminist cause but he can't be a feminist. 

Origin

Late 19th century: from French féministe, from Latin femina ‘woman’.

It is long because you didn't answer the question. 

No attorney man can't be a feminist he can only support the feminist cause. Imagine the feminist movement run by all men. Imagine the civil rights movement run by all white people. 

 

The root of feminism is woman. 

Origin

Late 19th century: from French féministe, from Latin femina ‘woman’.

 

I am going to stop discussing this topic. Someone else can debate it with you. It strikes me as odd to have two men debating feminism. Which is exactly my point. 

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Del it strikes you as odd because you are being unnecessarily closed minded.

 

Dude, the abolitionists, fighting to free the slaves were virtually all white people.  John Brown gave his life for the cause.  Enslaved Black people were not in a position to advocate for themselves. as free white people. Does this not make sense to you?

 

Also you dont you read some of the literature regarding men an feminism.  First you'll discover the dictionary definitions, you often site, don't shed any understanding on a subject. 

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Troy you have your position and I have a different one. Which is a function of the differences in our lives.

I'll give you an example as kids the biggest insult was to call another guy a faggot. However the same kids went to the Paradise Garage. They were underage boys and we're let in on Gay night. Later on I was in a relationship with a bisexual feminist. She said that was bigotry. To me at the time it was just words but I could hear her. I have had illuminating conversations with Lesbians and Gay men. About domestic violence amongst lesbians. Black Gay  men have talked about their being a sexual fetish to Gay white men while also being discriminated against. I have heard white women say that if they are alone, they fear white men more than black men. I have heard women admit to me in private that they find babies of another race more beautiful. I have had strangers and people I know unburden their hearts and minds. Then tell me they never told anyone that story. 

 

However I am neither capable more prepared to distill those moments that changed my world view. I am not suggesting that you can't , won't or even should. I am just acknowledging some gaps can't be bridged. 

Recently I have decided that certain points can't really be discussed.

My turning point was being called a racist because I mentioned white privilege. 

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I like your longer more thoughtful posts @Delano

 

It takes a cetrain type of person the go to the Paradise Garage any night let alone gay night. :-) 

 

There is book that im adding to the site tonight that talks about the village and how it has been changed because artists and the like can no longer afford to live there.  This is happening all over the city... it is a shame too because tbe city is losing its distinct character traded in for Starbucks and Amazon home delivery.

 

I let my home serve as a green room for a pride event it really was an incredible event the variety of people who came through was just remarkable....

 

I know that is a side bar, but your thoughts triggered these memories.

 

Maybe you are a racist;  Not a lynch-a-nigger, genocidal racist, but someone who simply perfers others who are more like them maybe it is human nature.

 

But thoughts are one thing and actions are an entirely different thing and you defintely don't behave like a racist.  I think that is all that matters

 

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