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The Cult of R. Kelly


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  1. 1. The Cult of R. Kelly?

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23 hours ago, Delano said:

 The difference though is Pioneer self assessed and accurately. I can't recall anyone else doing so with such honesty and humility.

I said with an honesty and humility. I  feel sometimes you think I am splitting hairs or don't see the relevance of the distinctions I make. Or I feel that you conflate  what I am saying. @Troy

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Honor, or lack thereof, of honesty, usually hidden within plain-sight is open to revelation of one's character. People need to appear, outwardly, virtuous or otherwise demonstrate humility by, say, looking you in the eye when telling you a lie. It's a myth to believe they're being honest when they look you in the eye. Because they need to see if you believe they lies.

 

People believe what they hear and/or see only when it's convenient, is the reason we have Ben Carsons, Bill Cosby's, and Barack Obama's of the world. There's no limit to what people will believe or who they'll follow out of convenience. 

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@Delano Come on man, describing @Pioneer1 as humble is a bit much; don;t you think? I doubt he, himself, would use that word to describe his personality particularly as it has been presented on this discussion forum.  Honest, sure, but no more honest than anyone else. Honest and humble -- LOL!  Gimme a break!

 

I'm not splitting hair here, Pioneer will go toe to to with anyone here.  He will assert his opinion even when it is unpopular or flies against the entire scientific community.  He can take a joke as well as dish one out. He is assertive and frequently initiates conversation on controversial topics -- indeed he enjoys this. His opinions and steadfast defense of them is a driving force behind this forum and his absence would be missed. 

 

No Del, these are not the makings of a humble person 🙂  

 

 

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Pioneer stated that his approach to discussion and his short comings. He did that with honesty and humility. 

So this misunderstanding makes my point about you conflating my statements. Pioneer is not humble on presentation however he is humble and honest in describing how he approaches the discussion. Your description of how you think is honest but is lacking in humility. Which makes his statement about his scholastic deficiencies more striking. 

K2 is  counterpoint in that he thought I wasn't educated and proceeded to lecture me about the importance of education. I am trying to recall a conversation even briefly where my intellectual abilities were questioned. Some of my ideas or conclusions could be unfathomable but to say I lack reasoning and reckoning leaves me speechless. So I refrain from speaking with  him. 

If this still  isn't clear so it goes. 

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On 5/28/2018 at 5:37 PM, Delano said:

Everyone has a style Pioneer is the least egotistical.

Pioneer self assessed and accurately. I can't recall anyone else doing so with such honesty and humility.

 

That puts Pioneer in his own category. Which is why he has a special place as far as I am concerned . Also he brings humor to the proceedings. And it is directed at others and himself.

 

 

@Del Egads, man, have you lost your mind?  Those statements were enough to elicit a comment from me.   You'll probably change your opinion about me after you read this response but - so be it.  "The sun will come up tomorrow."  Pioneer is one of the reasons i stopped posting because i found his stance on most things so insufferable, i needed to remove myself from an atmosphere of "familiarity breeding contempt", a situation reminding me that "if you can't say anything good, it's best to not say anything at all". My time here was up because my having difficulty in finding anything good to say about anything, made me a liability.  Taking a break was not a hard decision.  i had stayed too long at the party.  And Troy and Mel do a very good job of keeping things real.  Who needs my contrarian input?  🤐

 

it should come as no surprise then that i totally disagree with everything your said about Pioneer.  i consider him the most egotistical, person on this board.  Every conclusion he comes to has its origin in the ego that fuels how he perceives the world.  All he needs is one experience to carve his opinion into the stone of an obstinacy that fosters whatever he decides about things in general and black people in particular, to be adamantly true because he considers himself to the ultimate authority.  Facts, figures, studies be damned in his cherry-pickin' the tree of  information. Forget Mel's and Troy's and Kalexander's rebuttals that refute his BS.  When he's not preaching his gospel,  he states the obvious because he is not an original thinker and yes, from time to time, he assumes a phony air of humbleness, often prefacing his remarks with the phrase "I may not be the smartest person in the world, but - ", an introduction that is subsequently proven accurate as he lays out his lengthy "dissertations" that are saturated with shallow subjectivity.   "Self-assessed himself" ? Puleeze.  He is incapable of regarding himself as anything other than right about the subjects he zeroes in on. Kalexander is at least, able to discern and admit his shortcomings."Funny"? He's  ridiculous. Because Pioneer couldn't wrap his brain around "Childish Gambino" 's spoof, he decided something was wrong with Gambino instead of considering that he, himself,  is a one-dimensional clod who can't see past his nose. His attitude about black women, is full of inaccuracies and notions that date back to 50 years ago, and are example of how out of touch he is in this era, dictating to us who our role models should be and what our motivations are,  and who is and who isn't "black", as if a mentally-promiscuous, polygamy advocate like himself, the anti-thesis of what a role model for black  males should be, has any room to criticize sistas. 

 

As i've previously stated, Pioneer is an example of a certain type i've come across down through the years, - individuals who simply make my gut recoil.  That's an inexplicable fact of my life; not an opinion.  I'm well aware that my observations on this subject don't really matter, and i would've refrained from expressing them if you hadn't brought my name up in a paragraph where you felt a need to sing an off-key version of Pioneer's praises. And speaking of opinions, Del, i haven't changed mine in regard to your using Pioneer as a vehicle to deride Troy.  (Just for the record, however, you don't make my gut recoil! You just make my eyebrow rise. 🤨😉)

 

Unfortunately,  I think your admission that  you don't believe in "facts" or "objectivity" pretty much undermines everything you have said. it would seem you are just blowin smoke.  And this includes your mention of having encounters with a broad cross section of people  What creeps between the lines is that beneath all the layers of your facade of being cool and detached, is a sensitive, easily offended person, - a someone who finds it necessary to say that he is impervious and psychic - because it is not obvious that this is the case. 

 

 And i'm sorry that this further unsolicited criticism will seal my doom with you when i express my disagreement with your prediction  that Donald Trump will be removed from office.  IMO, no amount of credible evidence  will be enough for him to be ousted. He is becoming entrenched, gradually gaining converts because the average white American can identify with his bad character and disregard for authority and the truth. Plus,  the nation is not prepared for the upheaval his being forced out of office will precipitate.   But i will, indeed, be glad to be wrong on this subject!  And it won't be the first time i've been wrong, something i'm sure you'll agree with.  C'est la Vie.

 

Back to my retreat. My work here is done.  Carry on.    😁     

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@Cynique you are mistaken. Firstly your disagreement or agreement is not where your value lies. It's in your perspective. Pioneer had stated that he doesn't have the collegiate education so he argues simply. That is an honest and humble self assessment. I will post more rebuttals. 

However I have been struggling more with how Troy and K2 argue. At times I find them condescending. However wanting them to argue more like myself is just a different type of I am right you are wrong. I am also contemplating the point of any conversation. The binary is people agree or they don't. So I almost don't see the point. Except the one my partner made. Which was that doesn't sound good for  a person who likes thinking to stop talking. 

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As she drops the mic... The is why the forum will always be know as Cynique's Corner, for this is her house!

 

Cynique, what you wrote will not change Del's mind about you.  He is bigger than that... it is easy to brilliant and charismatic people in high regard. 🙂

 

Thanks for setting the record straight.  I'm sorry that the "gay white mason" caused your hiatus -- that is really saying something because even the Queen Kola Boof did not cause you to retreat 😉 and she could be vicious.

 

Del I think the only reason you find what I say "condescending" is because you disagree with me, but can't argue on the merits.

 

It takes all types of people to keep a forum going.  It is easier when there are more voices.  I believe this will change in our favor as the big social sites piss more people off and people begin to migrate back to indie platforms.  Even the software that run this forum is rapidly improving, so I believe this will improve over time.

 

I think the participation of women in these forums is a key missing component, but I'm not aware of a forum where men and women engage in an ongoing basis to note best practices.  Lipstick Alley the standard setter for forums is primarily female.  This forum used to have a great balance between the genders, which is what made it great, in my opinion.

 

I could always come here and read something that would make me laugh out loud, that still happens but not as frequently. @Cynique's opening line, "...Egads, man, have you lost your mind?" made me laugh out loud I'm even chuckjling to myself as I write this.  It is one of those jokes made funnier because people have a history.

 

From Harry Brown to Richard Murray and from Del to Mel you all bring this thing to life.  But occasionally someone like Cynique will come along and bring a brilliance that is rare gift.  Welcome to Cynique's Corner.

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To reiterate my point on education, was there not a discussion of its importance and opinions arguing to the contrary? I also recall a point I put forth, made with regards to one 'Delano's' need to expand his academic horizons; which was also a purely "honest" opinion based on my observations guided by empirical evidence of most of my Black brothers.

 

YES, I ADMIT, that I too am conflicted with profiling other people; sometimes inaccurately, I might add. Considering I'm in need of additional academic exposure myself, I understand no-one can know everything and so, everyone stands in need of additional academically exposure. Regardless of achievements.

 

What I never do is apologize for my 'honestshortcomings or deliberate unprovoked misstatements. Even if I offend people. I attempt to see through all clever rhetoric and interpret opinionated commentary in ways that conform to my biased, emotional allegiance the Black perspective, worldview. However, there are some members here who think, believe that my offensive position(s) require apology, suckers for gratitude and compliments.

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I am not certain why acknowledging one person is a slight to someone else.

I had a lot of issues with Pioneer's statements. Until you said he doesn't think conceptually, and then when he stated how he approached a subject of was struck by his statements. 

I don't often see people conceding the point in most discussions. However Pioneer will often ask a a question or ask for proof to either refute his position or prove the opposing position. You also ask questions because you want clarification. Some  of Troy's questions don't have that same inquisitive feel.

Mel questions are more about shaping the answer to the question. Clearly that's my perception. 

 

However I can't recall Pioneer admitting he was mistaken. Which Troy K2 will do more readily. 

Part of my past frustration was with Pioneer's style and content. It is a bit elitist of me to reject discourse and opinions that seem less attractive or polished. 

I am cool and detached until I care. So you are correct and wrong at the same time. I have sat done or talked with the following "people ": prostitutes, strippers, a transformation prostitute, transwoman, Ceo, Presidential candidate, former drug dealer. bouncers, bar manager, entrepreneurs, tattoo artist, Dj, performance artist, artist. plumber programmer, composer, dancers, astrologers, wizard, witch, teacher, administrators, bar tenders,  actor ,  rock star. Researchers. 

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I love your mind too much. I think you need conflict. Towards the end you have been prickly in general. I don't look forward to conversations but your absence is worse. However you may be tired of hearing your own cranky raves.  So do not project that onto me. I am more than capable of making nonsensical comments on my own.

17 minutes ago, Troy said:

 

Del I think the only reason you find what I say "condescending" is because you disagree with me, but can't argue on the merits

That is the epitome of condescension. Troy.  But you may too arrogant to see that to be true.

 

19 minutes ago, Troy said:

Cynique, what you wrote will not change Del's mind about you.  He is bigger than that...

 

it is easy to brilliant and charismatic people in high regard. 🙂<span>

I agree on the first part. 

 

The second part is a display of your intellectual superiority to me. 

21 minutes ago, Troy said:

occasionally someone like Cynique will come along and bring a brilliance that is rare gift.  Welcome to Cynique's Corner.

I miss her cranky ass. 

22 minutes ago, Kalexander2 said:

However, there are some members here who think, believe that my offensive position(s) require apology, suckers for gratitude and compliments.

Who do you believe is needing or expecting an apology from you.

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1 hour ago, Delano said:

I miss her cranky ass. 

 

🙂 Me too.

 

Del you see my statement as condescension and now arrogant to boot.   This is tantamount to just call me names. At the risk of coming across as condescending, a strong argument would be much more effective at getting your point across.

 

1 hour ago, Delano said:

I am not certain why acknowledging one person is a slight to someone else.

 

The thoughts that drove you to write this statement is purely a figment of your imagination Del.  Can you describe why you wrote this?

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Simple, the 'vain' assumption I was referring to you!!! Or, was that meant to be a clever disclaimer of the obvious?

 

One thing is certain, Delano, much of what you say is accurate, among your many pointed views are unintelligible assertions, but I use silence and avoidance in unscrupulous ways towards obscure ends. Also, I don't like to see a Black underdog dogged, especially by other Blacks.

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Del

I am truly touched by your kind words.

As Troy said, I would call myself HONEST but I wouldn't call myself too humble.
I have an ego and I do like to show off from time to time, but only on those things about myself that are TRUE and that I KNOW I can back up.

Truth and honesty are part of my moral code, but humility is not necessarily.
Although it does have it's place in the presence of legendary people.

What you may see as humility (and what Cynique claims is "phony"....lol ) could rather be considered more of a defense mechanism that I've developed over the years as a person who has been active in community organizations to deal with so many people with far more education and academic creditials.
I learned that I get along with people far better when I respect their position and acknowledge mine.


But if I'm at all humbled, it's from being around intellectually powerhouses like you and Troy.

BTW......
If you'll remember, I TOLD you months ago that if I weren't around Cynique would start picking on you or Mel.
You're seeing evidence of this now.


 



People

Lol........
How can we miss someone who has never left?

Cynique only CLAIMED she was going away to get a reaction.
What she REALLY did was run up "underground" so that she could monitor MY comments and how others would continue to react to me in her "abscence" of constant criticism. 

She tried to keep it cool as long as she could but like she said....when Del had something nice ot say about me she couldn't control herself.
That little turtle HAD to crawl up out of her hole and start cussing and snapping at everyone in sight......lol.


Image result for snapping turtle

Rest assured, if I REALLY thought my presence would cause Cynique to actually LEAVE....I would save you all the headache and drama and say my good byes.
As I've said before, she ain't going nowhere.....but to the store to get some more snacks to much one while monitoring this site, lol.

The woman is obsessed!

The only thing that would cause HER to leave if if I left; because Pioneer's got her ass on LOCK !

 

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2 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Truth and honesty are part of my moral code, but humility is not necessarily.
Although it does have it's place in the presence of legendary people.

Gold.

 

2 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Rest assured, if I REALLY thought my presence would cause Cynique to actually LEAVE....I would save you all the headache and drama and say my good byes.

I rest my case gentlemen and K2.

K2 I don't respond because I can't make sense of your verbage typos and grammatical spaghetti. 

Half the active posters don't want to converse with you. 

Troy nice bait but I am not biting. ..this time. 

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Yes, it's trueCynique does have a way of getting under your skin. Perhaps if she used an astronomical chart, crystal ball, or Ouija board she would be equal to you; I'm sure her level of academic exposure is quite profound, however. More than I can say for some here, maybe even myself.

 

Obviously, it is also true complimenting each other, and the likeminded trends towards two worms copulating in their own bucket of snot, your comfort zone. How slimy is that?  

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What!?  @Delano Pioneer just rejected your assertion to his being humble, and you rest your case? 

 

You also made another statement that you couldn't back up; I call you on it, and you call it "bait."  Bait for what Del?  Why are you so paranoid?  You only feel like someone is trying to trap you because you must have done something you are afraid of getting caught it.   I think if you reflect on your reactions to things you'll better understand you own motivations, for you seem to be motivated more from what is inside you than what has actually happened (what I described earlier as your "gut" reaction.)

 

Again I was not trying to trap you. I was simply trying to understand where you were coming from by making it crystal clear that I saw no justification for what you wrote and inquired where you came up with the idea.

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2 hours ago, Cynique said:

      It's OK,  Pioneer.  Del luvs you. ð


......and so do YOU, lol.

You aren't fooling anyone on here with your vitriol.

Any normal person over 30 can tell that any woman who puts as much focus and energy on a man as YOU do with ME must have "something" going on with her.


I've said it before and I'll say it again:

My presence is both troublesome as well as stimulating to you and you also have a slight attraction to me.
And the more you post TO me or ABOUT me the more evidence you produce to support my statement.......lol.


Despite initially denying it and claiming that my presence is absolutely NO concern of yours and doesn't matter.....you NOW claim otherwise by claiming I was one of the reasons you decided to take a break.

A lot of people didn't catch the fact that you said there was MORE THAN ONE reason, but I did.....lol.

I'm just curious what the OTHER reason(s) were that you decided to leave.

I'm guessing K2's presence was probably another, but I may be wrong........

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Troy

 

What!? @Delano Pioneer just rejected your assertion to his being humble, and you rest your case?


I didn't reject it, I just compared MY opinion with HIS.

Humility is an OBJECTIVE observation that depends on the opinion of the observer....not the one being observed.

In other words......
He can consider me humble and I can consider myself not....and we can BOTH be correct in our observation.

But if you notice, he was absolutle correct about my honesty....which is a little more concrete and absolute than humility.

 



Again I was not trying to trap you. I was simply trying to understand where you were coming from by making it crystal clear that I saw no justification for what you wrote and inquired where you came up with the idea.


Lol......

I thought he explained it pretty articulately when he said that he based it on the observation that I was open enough to admit my academic short comings.

If someone comes to you and admits they are poor.
Or admits they are of low intelligence.
Or admits they are ugly.
Or just admits they made a lot of bad decisions in life.

........would you turn around and accuse them of being a pompous egotistical ass with delusions of grandeur?

......or would you consider it a sign of HUMILITY (until they gave you another explanation)?

 

 

 


Del


K2 I don't respond because I can't make sense of your verbage typos and grammatical spaghetti.

Half the active posters don't want to converse with you.


I don't think he makes sense half the time either, but to be honest for the sake of conversation I DID engage for a while.....until the fool talked about my mother.

That's a BIG "no no".....lol.

 

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UH OH, the antiquated impostureunable to accept rejection, iattempting another psychological flirt, only with a bit more zest this time; will probably find little changed:

 

"When someone shows you who they are they are, believe them the first time" - Maya Angelou. You've always had at least one worm who loves you! Maybe not Cynique though!

Why can't you correct me yourself, do you always call on a woman to fight your battles? 

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3 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Troy

 

What!? @Delano Pioneer just rejected your assertion to his being humble, and you rest your case?


I didn't reject it, I just compared MY opinion with HIS.

Humility is an OBJECTIVE observation that depends on the opinion of the observer....not the one being observed.

In other words......
He can consider me humble and I can consider myself not....and we can BOTH be correct in our observation.

But if you notice, he was absolutle correct about my honesty....which is a little more concrete and absolute than humility.

 



Again I was not trying to trap you. I was simply trying to understand where you were coming from by making it crystal clear that I saw no justification for what you wrote and inquired where you came up with the idea.


Lol......

I thought he explained it pretty articulately when he said that he based it on the observation that I was open enough to admit my academic short comings.

If someone comes to you and admits they are poor.
Or admits they are of low intelligence.
Or admits they are ugly.
Or just admits they made a lot of bad decisions in life.

........would you turn around and accuse them of being a pompous egotistical ass with delusions of grandeur?

......or would you consider it a sign of HUMILITY (until they gave you another explanation)?

Troy do you require further elucidation. 

I said it just yesterday you conflate things I say, and don't see the subtlety. 

I use my gut And my brain. 

K2 the word you mean to use is astrological not astronomical. 

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4 hours ago, Troy said:

You also made another statement that you couldn't back up; I call you on it, and you call it "bait."  Bait for what Del?  Why are you so paranoid?  You only feel like someone is trying to trap you because you must have done something you are afraid of getting caught it. 

I could have an irrational paranoia that isn't based on anything. I have included the Oxford English Dictionary (OED I sense I will need to use this abbreviation  on a regular basis (and it's not for Pioneer )

Unjustified suspicion and mistrust of other people.

 

K2 You may want to use the Oxford thesaurus as well. 

 

astrology

The study of the movements and relative positions of celestial bodies interpreted as having an influence on human affairs and the natural world.


astronomy

The branch of science which deals with celestial objects, space, and the physical universe as a whole

 

 

2 hours ago, Kalexander2 said:

UH OH, the antiquated impostureunable to accept rejection, iattempting another psychological flirt, 

Can someone other than K2 explain these sentence fragments. To be fair the last one is a sentence. A sentence at minimum requires  a Noun then a verb. Your first fragment in addition to not making sense doesn't have a verb. Your second fragment has an object without a subject. 

 

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4 hours ago, Kalexander2 said:

I'm sure her level of academic exposure is quite profound, however

Can someone explain what K2 is trying to say.

 

4 hours ago, Kalexander2 said:

More than I can say for some here, maybe even myself.

It's not maybe. Cynique is a writer and a critical thinker. You can't  compare yourself to ... anyone ... at least not rationally. Although that doesn't seem to be an issue with you.

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9 hours ago, Cynique said:

Pioneer is one of the reasons i stopped posting because i found his stance on most things so insufferable, i needed to remove myself from an atmosphere of "familiarity breeding contempt", a situation reminding me that "if you can't say anything good, it's best to not say anything at all". My time here was up because my having difficulty in findinganything good to say about anything, made me a liability.  Taking a break was not a hard decision.  i had stayed too long at the party.  And Troy and Mel do a very good job of keeping things real.  Who needs my contrarian input?  🤐

My position was clearly stated but, as usual, people overlooked everything i said and saw what they wanted to see and decided i took a break from posting here solely because of pioneer. Del should've let sleeping dogs lie, instead of bringing my name into the conversation.

 

  3 hours ago, Kalexander2 said:

UH OH, the antiquated impostureunable to accept rejection, iattempting another psychological flirt, only with a bit more zest this time; will probably find little changed:

 

"When someone shows you who they are they are, believe them the first time" - Maya Angelou. You've always had at least one worm who loves you! Maybe not Cynique though

That was a remarkably accurate statement in regard to pioneer's rant, Kalexander. You were on point this time! Why of all the guys on this board, would a dufus like pioneer be my choice for anything other than rejection? (He'd regularly bring up the subject of my 72 year old boy toy and would mistakenly take my responses to this as a sign that it was me initiating the subject because  i had eyes for him, - probably something for him to think about during his sessions with his blow up doll 🤭

 

It also amazes me how transparent the reason is for Del's reaction to you, being so different from his reaction to Pioneer. It's like he imagines that adopting pioneer makes him look more magnanimous and compassionate, as he tries to fit a square peg into a round hole by totally mis-characterizing Pioneer as humble - and wise(?) 🤣  I'm disappointed in how he has stooped to such bathos. ) Whatever.  But at least he admitted that he was not objective or concerned with facts.  😴

 

Gotta go.  i don't want to get stuck back in this viscous mire of vicious opinions. I will simply co-sign to whatever Troy says, for the simple reason that he comes closest to my way of thinking.    

 

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@Cynique o said there are no facts and objectivity. Before you go can you explain. Cynique you questioned K2 claim as a writer no you are holding him up. You may be projecting here.

I said his admission of his shortcomings was humble and honest. I also said that I can't recall him admitting he was wrong . So a person can be humble and honest in their self assessment . Yet be a braggart art in conversation. That's not a subtle point because especially since Pioneer explained it overtly. 

 

Cynique your recent post are uncharacteristically off note.

I am too high strung and get annoyed to easily to see myself as being compassionate. 

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@Del I never questioned Kalexander's claims as a writer.  I was skeptical about him having a degree in journalism.  But i repeat, his assessment of pioneer's hogwash was actually on point to me, possibly because we were on the same wave length. 

 

You did a 360 degree turn on pioneer who you used to clash with because he'd needle you about your convoluted sentences and psychic predictions.  Then you had this great epiphany and decided to canonize him and proclaim him the saint of Every Man, the anti-dote for Troy's academic intellect.  Folks have changes of heart, although when Kalexander first came on this board, i remarked that i liked him OK because he could take criticism and was refreshingly kooky.  

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@Cynique: I opined before and now again. THAT GUY HAS A SERIOUS CRUSH ON YOU; I don't know, maybe he's compensating for some other personal inadequacy which would explain why he's not actively stalking you. Please stay alert for things like that.

 

Incidentally, I do apologize TO YOU AND MY OTHER BLACK SISTERS here, for my profane rhetoric in response to some of the yo-yo's here. And don't worry about Pioneer1 the prilgrim0.01 because if you were available he never had what it'll take to best me. With, and only with your discretionary approval of course; because as opposed to him, I respect and revere my Black sisters! Another reason I boil just thinking of him using that damn 'N' word. 

 

Astrology/astronomy, anywhere but on the planet earth which brings back into question your so-called education. Is astrology/astronomy your definition, idea of a sound education, if so than its little wonder of my previous assumption of you lacking in that department.

 

I am curious, just how much effort, weight have your responses to these discussions are, is, were based on something in the stars? Thus far, I've taken you partially serious as to your reasoning and logic, I'm starting to conclude you have no idea what you're talking about, on everything.

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"It also amazes me how transparent the reason is for Del's reaction to you, being so different from his reaction to Pioneer. It's like he imagines that adopting pioneer makes him look more magnanimous and compassionate, as he tries to fit a square peg into a round hole by totally mis-characterizing Pioneer as humble - and wise(?) 🤣  I'm disappointed in how he has stooped to such bathos. ) Whatever.  But at least he admitted that he was not objective or concerned with facts."

 

Truth is, I understand and regress, Delano felt challenged when I questioned his academic exposure; when I attempted to recant it apparently wasn't to his satisfaction. He chose the easy, more unchallenged route, "Pioneer1" who gave him what he needed to hear, for validation and approval. Convenient for Pioneer1 because now he has an ally when he feels threaten. 

 

They're just ordinary, important human beings, at least one Black, seeking approval from each other.  The first time we clashed (Delano and I) his supporting response was "I've been to Troy's house" said a great deal about him. 

😴

 

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K2 you are the only person I have met in my entire life who thought I needed more education. So I was more questioning your powers of observation.

Once again I have  no idea what you mean by mentioning I have been to Troy's house. Hie are you going to defend Cynique. Despite the fact she hasn't asked nor requires. You also make more references to gay men.

You  may write but you don't seem like a journalist. If you want to fix a mess start with your writing .

How I. The name of all that is profane can you even consider comparing your self to Cynique.

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Not true, brother, shortly after I subscribed to this site, during a discussion between you and I, you responded with an assertion that you've been to Troy's house ... I took this to mean your way of demonstrating you're special, I am not because you know brother Troy better than I. Sister Cynique corrected my spelling of bosom buddies. Furthermore, I have no powers, except over myself, brother. 

 

And if I am indeed the only person who's suggested you should learn more -- than you may need more honest people around you. In-case you havn't noticed, sister Cynique requires no defending from a man, nor wo-man, I give credit where it is due and sometimes whenever it is simply convenient, for me. That's the truth!  

 

Not only have I made references to gay men, I suggested Pioneer1 may be gay; especially after he posted a depiction of a half-naked male. Regardless of the reason he did it. You see, I'm fine with who I am. Though I remain always open to constructive criticism I find little use of such coming from a person who seems to always need to lean on other people for validation and approval. Again, I do not compare to anyone. Cynique may demonstrate her passion however she like. I simply like the sister. I assure you, my passion is often offensive because I don't give a Fu*k!!!

 

But you do recognize when you're being checked; there's nothing wrong with that. It's a good sign. Most people just cover their eyes believing the matter doesn't exist if they can't see it. I'm not one of them, as a child does! By no means do suggest you're a child. You're not!   

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17 hours ago, Cynique said:

I will simply co-sign to whatever Troy says, for the simple reason that he comes closest to my way of thinking.

 

That is high praise @Cynique thank you.

 

@Pioneer1 you can't have it both ways man.  You can't say on one hand that Del's observation that you are humble and your admission that you are not are perfectly valid, because they are subjective, while his observation that you are honest is statement of fact.

 

The truth of the matter is @Delano is in no position to assess your honesty, despite his psychic abilities -- man you aren't even honest about your identity. All he, any of us, can do is express an opinion. However, we will never know if that opinion is accurate.  As far as humility, this we can assess that based upon the manner in which you express yourself.  Again, as you freely admit, humble you are not.  This assessment is not nearly as subjective as you are trying to make it seem.

 

Anyone who believes they know more the the world's scientific community cannot be humble. 

 

K2, Del did a some readings in my home for a group of friends it was a very nice evening and everyone had a really good time.  Del, in person, is a very laid back, unpretentious dude.  I think these forums allow us to express sides of ourselves which we would not typically present in the real world.  

 

I think however when you use an avatar you can take these liberties to an extreme that you might not when you using your real identity.

 

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Del don't be so hard to on K2.  How can he possibly accurately assess anyone based upon a few statements.  We all say things, or arrive at conclusions, based upon limited information that ultimately turn out to be wrong.  K2 may feel differently over time.   

 

Besides you know your level of education.  What difference does it make what he or anyone else thinks or says about it?

 

 

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Delano, there are no checks, deposits, or bounces. I Believe what you are trying to say is, without all the words, I've failed, there is no change in how YOU PRECIEVE my discussion responses, resolve here. And that's okay too because I'm still not trying to be your friend or seek your approval of me.  

 

WHAT I AM DOING is attempting to show you the REAL ME without all the BS mixed in. Well, maybe a little BS. Take me as is or reject me but without looking at me as an offer. I'M NOT A NICE PERSON, so I'm constantly told. Which is obviously a threat, challenge to you; probably because of your personal insecurities, which we all have. 

 

YOUR personal insecurity trigger seems to be any challenge to your academic achievement(s) which I've not challenged or disrespected. Now, however, I (do) herein pose a challenge to the strength, depth of your academic achievement(s): that you are not capable of looking beyond the words to notice the meaning; and that meanings are foreign, unacceptable to you whenever your position is rejected.  

 

That's normal, not a (my) problem for or to me; who cares about you more than you do? LOOK MAN, you're not child nor my son and I'm not going to change who I am because you don't like me. My love for you start with you being a Black man and ends with your humanity. I think all humans beasts only with reason capabilities, never to be completely trusted.  Although I never apologize I have no problem is calling for a TRUCE, to preserve what's left after war. 

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Fair enough, though not well taken. And how much ill advice and misguidance have you given to people in the form of paid readings? You're not being honest because NOTHING I've posted in these discussions were aimed toward advisement, to anyone. Another question mark on your ability to discern opionated rhetoric!

 

The issue you have with me doesn't seem to be about me or perceptions of me giving advice at all; but rather issues you have WITH YOURSELF.

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Reread my post. Unsolicited is an important word. I give you too much credit thinking you would get the point. I have stated directly my issue yet you want to deflect and offer more unsolicited advice and assessments. This post is to clarify my issue with your words. Since   both Troy and Cynique are under different assumptions of my peevishness.

 

An entire American culture tries to dminish everyone who isn't a white male. Your duplicitous advice mixed with criticism is not up to par. So I am sitting out the subsequent rounds of golf.

 

3 hours ago, Kalexander2 said:

Another, on point, observation is you still firing when there's a STAND DOWN!!!

You're still talking at me.

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Delano said:

Reread my post. Unsolicited is an important word. I give you too much credit thinking you would get the point. I have stated directly my issue yet you want to deflect and offer more unsolicited advice and assessments. This post is to clarify my issue with your words. Since   both Troy and Cynique are under different assumptions of my peevishness.

 

An entire American culture tries to dminish everyone who isn't a white male. Your duplicitous advice mixed with criticism is not up to par. So I am sitting out the subsequent rounds of golf.

 

AH, so now it's criticism. I give-up, you win! I'll be the villain and let you be the victim; unless you prefer being the good guy and me the bad the guy. How much did I take or owe you; what have you lost, exactly? Quickly now, your creditability is on the line, everybody's watching. 

 

Oh, I have another idea for your appeal, you're a, what, seer, fortuneteller or reader? What do you see in the stars of your future, what's your strength and weakness's and how's your emotional state today?

 

No, I'm not talking to you, don't see you, nor acknowledge your existence!!!!!!!!!!!!

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@Dalano: I am, again, inclined to acknowledge you and respond; it wasn't my words, it was instruction(s) that (probably) saved a helpless woman' life. It was a racist legal system exalting in what they call Black on Black crime that put her away for 8-years. Furthermore, I'm not angry, annoyed, or even impatient with you; and again, not giving you advice. A reasonable person would simply ignore advice they don't like or useless to them. Are you a reasonable person? 

 

Oh, Delano, I should also add that after her release I told her that the redemption for a Black woman, with a violent felony, criminal record was to arm herself with a college degree. Which she acknowledged, though she has two more children with a married man, she's also a successful language translator for an online service company. How's that for a suggestion that was never meant to be advice?

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Troy

The truth of the matter is @Delano is in no position to assess your honesty, despite his psychic abilities -- man you aren't even honest about your identity. All he, any of us, can do is express an opinion


How am I not honest about my identity?

Is not posting one's picture and other personal information a sign of DISHONESTY to you?

15 years ago hardly ANYONE was putting up their personal pictures on social media for security reasons, now most people are doing it.

15 years from now.....
If a person refuses to put their address and social security number online when they communicate will that be a sign that their lying and have something to hide?

 

 

 

 

But for the record, I DO NOT believe in this concept of "transparency" that so many politicians and those in the media are calling for these days.

I think it's both impractical AND unrealistic to expect someone to be totally transparent and open about everything they're doing and thinking.....especially in the world of government and finance where telling all of your business could lead to your financial ruin.


My moral code calls for TRUTH.

Whether you love it or hate it, ommiting and concealing information DOES NOT violate that code....only lying and falsifying information do.

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@Pioneer1 don't get all bent out of shape man.  I completely understand why one would hide their identity on the web.  

 

I have simply never done it.  Indeed it would be very difficult, if not impossible, for me to run a business and do it.

 

With your identity hidden, you do not have that same accountability for your statements as someone who does not hide their identity.  You wont ever have to worry about standing behind or explain something your have written. Surely you can appreciate this, can't you?

 

Also, with so much of yourself hidden, how could it be possible for anyone to assess your honesty?  This is NOT the same thing as saying you are lying, but we just have no way of knowing.  All we know is what you tell us, but we have now way of vetting what you have written because we don't know you you are.  Get it?

 

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3 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

All he, any of us, can do is express an opinion

 

Keyword, "opinion" based on both what is known and unknown. Leaves room for any suspicion, every suspicion! Is not 'entirely' about hiding or having something to hid; failure to disclose one's true identity, if not lie, what is it? Exactly. A liar who never cheats is still a liar. A mischief maker who supports human rights is no less a mischief maker. A person who hides his true identity/image diberately does not make her/him an honest person until proven otherwise - by truthful disclosure.

 

Play with the semantics: Oposite of truth; oposite of honesty, etc.

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Troy

 

Pioneer1 don't get all bent out of shape man. I completely understand why one would hide their identity on the web.


I'm not sure how my statement may have sounded but I didn't get bent out of shape or angry.

As far as me not having to stand behind what I say, you can say that about ANYONE posting on here.
Except for people you've actually met in real life like Cynique and Del....you don't know if ANY picture a poster is using is actually theres or they are who they claim to be.....lol.

But this is what you CAN do.........

Ask yourself this question:

Of the years I've been posting on this forum, have you ever known me to tell an outright lie?

I'm not talking about making a mistake or saying something you disagree with like the racial issue.......I mean PURPOSELY putting out false information about myself or anyone or anything else
(like calling a straight Black man a "gay white troll" or calling a degreed financier  "uneducated"...lol)  ?

It's like Mel said in another thread, it boils down to who you trust and who you don't based on their history.

This is how I judge other people.......
If someone has a HISTORY of lying and being deceptive then they shouldn't be trusted.
But if you've known them for years and despite maybe being wrong or mistaken from time to time you've never known them to purposefully lie then I have a certain level of trust of them.

 

 

 


K2
 

Quote

 

 

 

      9 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

 

All he, any of us, can do is express an opinion

 


Number one.....

That quote wasn't mine, it was TROY'S.....so learn how to read and comprehend properly before you go spouting off more of your half-baked nonsense.


 


Number two.....

You keep directing posts at me but you should remember it's still "on" between us UNTIL you apologize!

You told Delano:


Although I never apologize I have no problem is calling for a TRUCE


Well since you NEVER apologize I guess things between me and you will pretty akward around here because I STILL demand an APOLOGY for what you said about my mother.

I don't let slights like that go.

I don't give a damn who you work for, if we were face to face and you said something like that you'd spend the next 5 minutes picking your TEETH up off the goddam ground.

 

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10 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said:

Of the years I've been posting on this forum, have you ever known me to tell an outright lie?

 

 

Liar's do not lie in words alone, they can live a lie for years, and years!

 

To double down, did she (you know who) apologize when you poped throug. Man, fu*k you and your demands. 

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K2

The only liar around here is YOU.

You LIE about me and who I am routinely.
You haven't even met me but you've accused me of being white, gay, a troll, a spy, and a mason all within a month....lol.

You haven't met Delano....but you LIED about his level of education or lack of it.

Hell, you JUST NOW told a lie and attributed a quote to me that I never wrote!


Make all the accusastions you want about me but the facts are NO ONE has "caught me" in a lie yet....and there's a reason for that.

If you have so much respect for Cynique, then why don't you follow the advice she gave you when you first popped up on this site and presented yourself like a straight up PARANOID FOOL by accusing me of being some sort of spy who was following you around and threatened to sue the goverment...lol.....that advice was to get your facts straight before you start jumping to conclusions and lying on people.

Unless that's your assignment.



Never the less, you WILL apologize........

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@Pioneer1, who are making this a circular argument.  I'm saying I can't prove anything you've said is true or false because I again fall all I know you can be a white guy.  That said I have anything against white guys participating here, but since you are anonymous I can only go by what you say, of course what you can can be a lie, but I have no way of knowing.

 

Of course I take you at your word, but if I were in a court of law I could not testify to your race, because I simply do not know what it is -- I just know what you written. 

 

You would not be the first first who posted here and spoofed the gender, race, or even that of a celebrity.

 

On 6/1/2018 at 11:42 PM, Pioneer1 said:

I'm not sure how my statement may have sounded but I didn't get bent out of shape or angry.

 

You are being a bit sensitive.  I was gonna write "don't get you panties in a bunch," but decided to go with cliche I chose. I was just trying to express the idea that it is not all that serious. 

 

Of course K2's presence can be completely fictional as well.  Even his is a photo of a person -- that does not mean it is him (or her).  I, just searched, and found the photo here as well: https://urbanpatriotsite.wordpress.com/ but that does yield any additional proof, as it does not take very much effort to create a wordpress site under a bogus identity I did find a resume for K2, which gives enough information for me to vet his identity if I wanted to do so, but I don't have time for that.  Besides, usually people misrepresenting themselves here eventually reveal themselves as trolls and I end up banning them.

 

Finally there is a big difference between expressing a malformed or ignorant opinion and deliberating saying something known to be false to mislead someone.  Unfortunately, it is very difficult to tell the difference.

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All true, brother Troy, anybody can lie, in fact everybody claiming to be a Homo Slepian is a liar, to hear me tell about it. Means and motives illustrate the nature of a lie. That's with the verbal or written lies, though. 

 

Coming from a strict mother I learned to lie a very young age. Got good at too. Enjoyed both advantage and suffered retribution for those lies. And I'll lie to you, but not myself. Anddefinitely, not live it. 

 

People who live lies are the most dishonest because a person who can live a lie are usually comfortable with dishonestylike lying about one's identity, deceiving self - develop an instinct to lie to others, naturally. Pioneer1 does, indeed, express himself, not in some malinformed or ignorant opion, but deliberatly offering information (even) he knows is false and misleading. The only question I have is, WHY? This my opinion and I welcome intelligible argument to the contrary.

 

Which begs the question why you never researched Pioneer1, but considering uncertainty of who he is, it understandable. Thanks for checking me out!

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