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27 minutes ago, Kalexander2 said:

in starting in America (first)

Actually, I should have written Americas  and since the native americans (mexico, canada and u.s.) are said to be from south asia , it would make sense to look at the information already in studies to see the migration patterns between Asia and Africa 2129.jpg?w=620&q=20&auto=format&usm=12&f

 

 

also if  early humans were mostly matrilineal tribes then it stands to reason why today we trace migration patterns through the mtDNA.  The mitochondrial DNA doesn't mutate  that often. Allegedly my mtDNA is found in a haplogroup that is 80,000-104,000 years old traced back to east africa and ethiopians.  So if there was a way to find the "african" origin of Asians (there is by the way - they came from my clade)  then we can begin with the women in those groups to the first women in the new haplogroup... we could learn their language and religion -and then find out where they separated... 

So far, the mtDNA tells us that my foremother remained in east africa but my "daughters" crossed over into yemen to begin a new group (euroasians)...  Still that doesn't give us the what their early community looked like - how they met up with the neanderthals et al ... because what anthropologist have reveal thus far, is those of us who remained in Africa didn't meet or mate with neanderthals but those who left out of Africa did... 

 

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@Mel Hopkins

Wow! this thread is interesting. The photos you posted are very interesting. 

 

You know, I have worked in a genetics lab and my major is in Biology with emphasis in Secondary education. And after I've studed about the mtDNA and the Y Haplo group, it seems to me the scientist are not revealing everything. Actually, I think it is the other way around, but I need to look at my notes regarding the mtDNA. That is the one that does 'mutate'. But the term for the Y-Dna haplogroup is that it is more stable and it does not RECOMBINE like the mtDNA and this is why scientiest know the origins of mankind, which they say is much more recent than the Mitochondrial Eve. Alll Y-DNA has a basal MARK that shows their origin is in Africa and it is called 'basal a'. All males have this 'basal a' mark and it does not recombine. 

 

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Krazy Alexander

 

I see. So, do you think it is possible a 'trace' through the Southeast Asia desert could unearth patterns and language of Black folk?



The original Chinese were BLACK.

All through out South East Asia and into the Phillipines and even up in Japan and Korea if you go into the rural forest areas small Black people called by different names STILL exist in large numbers.

 

Image result for black tribes of southeast asia


Just like these small Black people were the original inhabitants of Europe, they were the original inhabitants of THAT land as well.


 



Yes, I'm starting to get, really, good at it. I almost know all the right buttons to push.


All the right "buttons to push" huh???
As I said before, the definition of a troll is one who likes antagonizing people and causing trouble.....lol.

Basically what you're saying.....Krazy.... is that you're getting good at TROLLING people.

The higher the monkey climbs...the more he shows his tail, lol.






Mel



I also agree with Cynique - WHEN did we become two or maybe more distinct groups of blacks? Also, how and why did we change physically.


Well I know there's atleast THREE distinct groups of what we would call "Black" people on this planet.

 


One group is the African type who TYPICALLY (but not always) have dark skin, kinky hair, thick lips, and broad noses.
Obviously you have the San people of southern Africa with their light brown skin and the Amharic and Somali peoples of eastern Africa with their wavy and straight hair and thin lips/noses.....but the vast majority of NATIVE Africans are the Blacks I described above.

 

Related image

 

 

 

 

 


But then you also have the Blacks of Asia.
Herodotus when writing his Histories called them the "Ethiopians of Asia" and claimed that they were so Black that even their semen was black....lol.

But these were the Dravidians of Southern India. Most of whom are dark skinned, with straight hair and mostly thin lips/noses.

Image result for dravidians

 


Then you have the Polynesians and Aboriginees of Australia who are an entirely different group all together in my opinion and they were the ones populating much of Southeast Asia and the Japanese island as well as Australia, Indonesia, ect..

I don't have solid proof of it but I believe that either:

1. The African and Polynesian/Australian Blacks CAME FROM the Indian Blacks or
2. All Black races shared a common ancestral lineage that resided in the Middle East before they branched off into different directions.

 

Perhaps there different features are owed to different "families" who may have migrated in different directions and keep reproducing within the same genetic stock.

 

 

 

 

The antiquity of the Tuareg Women indicates they were a matrilineal tribe ( it may indicate some were the original Hebrews.) The men followed the women. Anthropologist report women and men lived separately - even after marriage. Surprisingly,  Today, some reports indicate their lifestyle hasn't changed. Also the Berbers were nomads then and today so if some converted to Islam it would make sense how it would spread.


Oh you're breaking it DOWN  today huh....lol.

Not only the Taureg but Ive also heard the Ibo (or Igbo) people of Nigeria were related to the original Hebrews who came out of Egypt/Kemet as well.

We KNOW the Dogon of Mali are ancient Egyptians and received much of their science while still there.

But speaking of the Taureg and matriarchies.......

The myth of the Amazon women actually came from a NORTH AFRICAN people called the "Amazigh" people who still exist today.
The Greeks called them "berbers" which meant barbarian but they call themselves "Amazigh" and practice a very matriarchal type culture where the women were warriors.
Herodotus I believe again speaks of the women of the Amazigh cutting off one of their breasts at young ages so that they could be better fighters with the bow and arrow.

 

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No wonder humans made up the story about Adam and Eve.  All of this stuff is so involved and speculative, it boggles the mind. And it's almost like the more we find out, the less we know, because discovery is ongoing.  ( This is my excuse for being too lazy to delve into research.) My Daddy told me i had an Africa great, great grandmother, born in slavery in North Carolina, and his mother was a full blooded Osage Indian born in Kansas  My mother's father was half-white and blue-eyed, born of a slave owner and a slave in Tennessee.  The only thing unique about this is that i have a Hispanic first name.  (Consuelo) 

 

OK. Let the discussion resume.   

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6 hours ago, Mel Hopkins said:

Actually, I should have written Americas  and since the native americans (mexico, canada and u.s.) are said to be from south asia , it would make sense to look at the information already in studies to see the migration patterns between Asia and Africa 

 

Okay, I think I understand the approach you suggest - tracing ancient Black language and religion through our ancient migration patterns – via the Americas beyond divide per the geological continental shift (over there); which may be unreliable, “media gatekeepers [may] have hidden it.”  Again I wary now, even more, faced with both qualitative and qualitative bias.  Your thoughts, please!

 

6 hours ago, Mel Hopkins said:

also if  early humans were mostly matrilineal tribes then it stands to reason why today we trace migration patterns through the mtDNA.  The mitochondrial DNA doesn't mutate  that often. Allegedly my mtDNA is found in a haplogroup

2

 

Unsure whether early tribes were mostly matrilineal.  From what I gather from interaction with African Arab/Muslim Bedouin women, those are some tough old girls too, several ancient languages are passed down to the children via oral tradition.  One language, I’m told consist of a kind of grunt/whistle sound (strange).  And there is a lost language of such being resurrected my Alaska’s Athabaskan natives.

 

2 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

The original Chinese were BLACK.

All through out South East Asia and into the Phillipines and even up in Japan and Korea if you go into the rural forest areas small Black people called by different names STILL exist in large numbers.

 

Possible but non-definitive because of China's lineage being traced to India (Indian) culture.  Don't about DNA argument.

 

Good story, but in what chapter do you shut up?

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2 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Well I know there's atleast THREE distinct groups of what we would call "Black" people on this planet.

 


One group is the African type who TYPICALLY (but not always) have dark skin, kinky hair, thick lips, and broad noses.
Obviously you have the San people of southern Africa with their light brown skin and the Amharic and Somali peoples of eastern Africa with their wavy and straight hair and thin lips/noses.....but the vast majority of NATIVE Africans are the Blacks I described above.

 

 I could eat a bowl of alphabet soup and poop out a more coherent statement than whatever you just said.

 

2 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

As I said before, the definition of a troll is one who likes antagonizing people and causing trouble.....lol.

Basically what you're saying.....Krazy.... is that you're getting good at TROLLING people.

The higher the monkey climbs...the more he shows his tail, lol.

 

 Don’t hate me because I’m handsome and intelligent. Hate me because your mother thinks so.

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31 minutes ago, Kalexander2 said:

 

 Don’t hate me because I’m handsome and intelligent. Hate me because your mother thinks so.

 

 

Perhaps if YOUR mother felt the same way about YOU.....you would have grown up in HER custody instead of in STATE custody.

 

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6 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said:

Perhaps if YOUR mother felt the same way about YOU.....you would have grown up in HER custody instead of in STATE custody.

 

Great comeback!!!!!!!!!!!!  What else you got in your crayon box?

 

You know, Pioneer1 pony, we were having an intelligent discussion here, and here you come trying to match wits.  In fact,  I was hoping for a battle of wits but it would be wrong to attack you who’s totally unarmed.  But it's fun!

 

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3 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

As I said before, the definition of a troll is one who likes antagonizing people and causing trouble.....lol.

Basically what you're saying.....Krazy.... is that you're getting good at TROLLING people.

@Pioneer1at any given time, your "definition" of a troll  applies to everyone on this site including me, as well as you when you trade antagonizing insults with Kalexander.  "Troll" is not a relative designation on this board because posters here disagree  as much as  they agree with each other and things can get intense. So be it.

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5 minutes ago, Cynique said:

trade antagonzing insults with Kalexander

 

Yes, sister Cynique, very antagonizing to the p{h}ony.  Shame on me for enjoying it so much!  I've gotten to the point where I actually wait for him to start-up again, and again he comes back for more.   So please excuse me if I elect to accommodate Pioneer1 p(h)ony.   

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57 minutes ago, Kalexander2 said:

Again I wary now, even more, faced with both qualitative and qualitative bias.  Your thoughts, please!

 

@Kalexander2 , My thoughts?  I haven't read the studies so I don't know if a bias exist.  Once I select the studies, I compare and contrast everything I read if I haven't experienced it first hand.  

  
 

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10 minutes ago, Kalexander2 said:

 

  Shame on me for enjoying it so much!  I've gotten to the point where I actually wait for him to start-up again,

 

 

:huh: WTF?????

 

Sounds like a "man crush" to me.

Fool, you've got the WRONG "pony" to try and ride and get a cheap thrill.....lol.

This STALLION only likes mares...lol.

 

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32 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said:

Perhaps if YOUR mother felt the same way about YOU.....you would have grown up in HER custody instead of in STATE custody.

 

I have an admission to make: there was a time I was pro-life. Then I started reading your posts.  I thank God I never met or I'd be pro death-penalty.  

2 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said:

This STALLION only likes mares...lol.

 

That makes me pure, a thoroughbred, and I don't do horses.  Hey, ask your trollop how she breaks in donkeys, I'm sure you'll learn something, or not, since you like mares!

 

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13 minutes ago, Kalexander2 said:

 

I have an admission to make: there was a time I was pro-life. Then I started reading your posts.  I thank God I never met or I'd be pro death-penalty.  



I have an admission to make too!

For years I  wondered if a man and a woman urinated in the same toilet over and over again without flushing would it ever make a baby.

Lol, and YOUR PRESENCE is the answer to that question!

 

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17 hours ago, Chevdove said:

Actually, I think it is the other way around, but I need to look at my notes regarding the mtDNA. That is the one that does 'mutate'. But the term for the Y-Dna haplogroup is that it is more stable and it does not RECOMBINE like the mtDNA and this is why scientiest know the origins of mankind, which they say is much more recent than the Mitochondrial Eve. Alll Y-DNA has a basal MARK that shows their origin is in Africa and it is called 'basal a'. All males have this 'basal a' mark and it does not recombine. 

 

@Chevdove  

 

As it relates to anthopology, the mtDNA  mutates almost every 8000 years .  The mutation here refers to assigning mtDNA haplotypes into halplogroups  which is represented here in this phylotree ( A comprehensive phylogenetic tree of worldwide human mitochondrial DNA variation, currently comprising over 5,400 nodes (haplogroups) with their defining mutations.)  

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0008260    Molecular Clock of the mtDNA hominid 

build-17-phylotree.png
credit: 
van Oven M, Kayser M. 2009. Updated comprehensive phylogenetic tree of global human mitochondrial DNA variation. Hum Mutat 30(2):E386-E394. http://www.phylotree.org.

doi:10.1002/humu.20921


Also, the mitochondria is not a chromosome such as the Y that recombines slightly or X that recombines with the other X chromosome and a little with the Y. 

(See this 2001 study on the question of mtDNA recombination https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1461814/pdf/11606549.pdf )

 

The Mitochondria are small membrane-bound structures contained in the cell's cytoplasm.  It  is responsible for generating energy needed for cell function.  The mitochondria contains its own DNA and protein-synthesizing machinery.  It  reproduces by splitting in two to make a second copy of the DNA . https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-do-researchers-trace/

The offspring inherits the mtDNA from the mother.

The father inherits his mother's mtDNA but males cannot pass it on.  The Y only passes from father to son, whereas the mtDNA goes from the mother to both son or daughter.  This link leads to an early study of Y-Chromosome mutation  https://www.nature.com/news/2009/090827/full/news.2009.864.html  . 

And yes, mutation is limited  for the Y-chromosome  because its the X that has all the genetic information to combine with the Y to form a viable human.   

Recent studies,  previously stated the Y chromosome was on its way to extinction because it only recombines to provide genetic information for male reproductive organs - and had emptied itself of other genetic material.  According the article (link)  it has found a way to stabilize itself.  https://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/news/140513_ychromosome

 

https://www.hhmi.org/biointeractive/evolution-y-chromosome

 

But as you know the origin of mankind was the X chromosome.  According to studies, and the aforementioned article) there was no Y chromosome until about 180 million years ago.   

.

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18 hours ago, Chevdove said:

Alll Y-DNA has a basal MARK that shows their origin is in Africa and it is called 'basal a'. All males have this 'basal a' mark and it does not recombine. 

 

@Chevdove  also when I was searching for my source documents - I saw the 2013 article of the man with Y-DNA that branched off from the modern humans - THE PLOT THICKENS!  I started reading about mitochondrial eve and human migration back in 2005 - I follow up every so often because I find it fascinating. BUT I missed the development of the Albert Perry's Y-DNA dating back 340000 years!   I look forward reading more research on this new development.  Thank you for the update!

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32 minutes ago, Mel Hopkins said:

 

@Chevdove  

 

As it relates to anthopology, the mtDNA  mutates almost every 8000 years .  The mutation here refers to assigning mtDNA haplotypes into halplogroups  which is represented here in this phylotree ( A comprehensive phylogenetic tree of worldwide human mitochondrial DNA variation, currently comprising over 5,400 nodes (haplogroups) with their defining mutations.)  

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0008260    Molecular Clock of the mtDNA hominid 

build-17-phylotree.png
credit: 
van Oven M, Kayser M. 2009. Updated comprehensive phylogenetic tree of global human mitochondrial DNA variation. Hum Mutat 30(2):E386-E394. http://www.phylotree.org.

doi:10.1002/humu.20921


Also, the mitochondria is not a chromosome such as the Y that recombines slightly or X that recombines with the other X chromosome and a little with the Y. 

(See this 2001 study on the question of mtDNA recombination https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1461814/pdf/11606549.pdf )

 

The Mitochondria are small membrane-bound structures contained in the cell's cytoplasm.  It  is responsible for generating energy needed for cell function.  The mitochondria contains its own DNA and protein-synthesizing machinery.  It  reproduces by splitting in two to make a second copy of the DNA . https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-do-researchers-trace/

The offspring inherits the mtDNA from the mother.

The father inherits his mother's mtDNA but males cannot pass it on.  The Y only passes from father to son, whereas the mtDNA goes from the mother to both son or daughter.  This link leads to an early study of Y-Chromosome mutation  https://www.nature.com/news/2009/090827/full/news.2009.864.html  . 

And yes, mutation is limited to the Y- because  its the X that has all the genetic information to combine with the Y to form a viable human.   Recent studies,  previously stated the Y chromosome was on its way to extinction because it only recombines to provide genetic information for male reproductive organs - and had emptied itself of other genetic material.  According the article (link)  it has found a way to stabilize itself.  https://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/news/140513_ychromosome

 

https://www.hhmi.org/biointeractive/evolution-y-chromosome

 

But as you know the origin of mankind was the X chromosome.  According to studies, and the aforementioned article) there was no Y chromosome until about 180 million years ago. 

 

 

Yes! Thank you for the correction. I once, many moons ago a teacher and I just could not remember the correct terms. You're right, the mitochondria is on the outside of the nucleus and the Y-DNA HAPLOGROUP is one strand of the Genome. I need to look over my notes, but I have come to realize the subject is extensive. 

 

Look!--I HOPE NOT!--I hope the Y chromosome doesn't become extinct! LOL! I don't want to live in a world without men! LOL.

 

But I would like to share some of my notes about this topic, only, I need to find my notes. 

 

The RECOMBINATION I mention, I think there might be another term I need to use to explain what I found. 
.

 

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1 minute ago, Chevdove said:

Look!--I HOPE NOT!--I hope the Y chromosome doesn't become extinct! LOL! I don't want to live in a world without men! LOL.


@Chevdove LOL!!! I was just getting ready to edit  to update it to say - not extinction of MEN - just the "Y" .  One those studies indicated  post modern humans created different sexes in other ways... 😲

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@Mel Hopkins Yes, I read about the American Slave Albert Perry and the new information on the AO HAPLOGROUP, Y-DNA. I have to tell you though, 

for the past year, I have went over the Y-DNA HAPLOGROUPS and I can see the manipulation here in regards to the science community, and I will explain in a little while.

 

I have not been able to make a conclusion though, I just see some contradictions in what has been reported about the Y-DNA. 

 

I will get some quotes though.

1 minute ago, Mel Hopkins said:


@Chevdove LOL!!! I was just getting ready to edit  to update it to say - not extinction of MEN - just the "Y" .  One those studies indicated  post modern humans created different sexes in other ways... 😲

 

really. Tlhat's new for me. I would love for you to shed some more information on this!

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@Mel Hopkins Okay so here we go! 

You know  I fell pretty dumb, not to know this about the mitochondria in regards to it being classified as 'a chromosome' so help me out here! 

This is a brief web search on it:

 

Mitochondrial DNA is the small circular chromosome found inside mitochondria.

These organelles found in cells have often been called the powerhouse of the cell.

[1] The mitochondria, and thus mitochondrial DNA, are passed only from mother

to offspring through the egg cell.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitochondrial_DNA

 

So now, I'm thinking, ... What was I thinking!? I have to refresh myself, because my thesis is based on a good comparison and contrast between the mtDNA and 

the Y-DNA HAPLOGROUP that has been published today. YOu see, I have a big problem with what I have been reading. I believe that, in the Science Scholarly 

community, there is a big concerted effort to conceal some of their findings and as a result, some of what they report is misleading to say the least, but I'm still

researching and have not made a conclusion on this thought for sure. To take my opinions further, So at this stage, I am gathering info, and forming some questions about their reports. Ultimately and based on what I see so far, I believe that this big government is hiding information based on a racial reasoning. That is what I believe. So let me post some of their statements, a little, for now and pose some questions I have about this research:

 

In general, traits that exist on the Y chromosome are Y-linked because they only occur on that

chromosome and do not change in recombination.

 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chromosome

 

 

GENETIC RECOMBINATION

Genetic recombination is the production of offspring with combinations of traits that

differ from those found in either parent. The shuffling of genes brought about by

genetic recombination produces increased genetic variation.

 

In mammals, females most often have higher rates of recombination

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_recombination

 

[1] So, this was what i vaguely remembered in my notes, but I was not sure how to phrase it. The mtDNA is very stable, so stable that it does not RECOMBINE in the process of reproduction for a very, very long time. And the same for the Y-DNA, but I feel that the scholars don't make it clear the other aspect in the term they use; RECOMBINATION.

When it comes to RECOMBINING with the pairing and the Y-DNA chromosome strand during reproduction, the X-chromosome offers a lot of variation as opposed to the Y-DNA. 

 

The Y-DNA only offers a small portion on the tip of the Y-chromosome sex gene, in the psuedo[?] region. For this reason, the human race is so varied. 

Then there is the inheritance that comes from the AUTOSOMAL CHROMOSOMES too. 

But, in my observation, the scientific community is very vague about the Y-DNA Sex chromosome because they don't want to shed light on the African male origin of all mankind living today.

 

I have found that the Haplogroups that they list today, is very, very vague. And they change groups, and sub-clades, to a point, where am questioning as to why?

The Y-DNA is very stable. And the process that determins the BASAL aspect is stable, so why do they not make this clear?

 

[2] [a]  At one point they say, the basal portion was listed by a certain description [can't remember off hand];

then they assigned it to be BASAL A and said it was a great portion of African men

[c] then they assigned the E1b groups to much of African men

[c] then they assiged the BT group and changed their story about that

[d] now they say they have found a new group A00 in a man in america named Albert and sometimes they say that he was a slave...

 

And the process in determining the mutation MARKS for these grups leads to subclades and such, but

I have found one of many vague points, they have left out as well as the contradictions about the basal A, and E1b groups;

they don't usually clarify that the HAPLOGROUP F is the beginning BRANCH for all of the reast of the HAPLOGROUPS!!! --

     G,H,I,J,K,L,... and then the other branches off of thse groups. They don't share this much. And, this is some of the reason why I believe they are not publishing 

the whole truth about the Y-DNA. Ultimately, I believe this is because they in no way want to make any correlation to the BIBLICAL ADAM and THE GREAT WORLD FLOOD which would be A BOTTLENECK affect. 

 

[3] and then there is another major issue that also comes into play in these findings... THE NEANDERTHAL Y-DNA of which to date, scientist don't really shout it out, but no y-dna has been found yet. Their methods of determining the HAPLOGROUPS for the earlier hominids is based on comparison and contrast using the PRIMATES such as the Gorilla and chimpanzee. And they use the mtDNA as well to determinen gene patterns to reports their findings on the male presence of the NEANDERTHALS.

 

They know they were here and that they were males, in part!--because of reproduction and other proof. 

anyway, I have more questions to pose, later. 

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@Pioneer1  There is more genetic diversity today in African than there is anywhere else on Earth.  Genetically, it is more likely that you are more closely related to the people you call white than you would be to people in Africa who share your complexion.

 

Anyone who believes Africans are "less evolved" than the people who left Africa is simply ignorant of the most basic concepts of genetics.

 

There is zero evidence that anyone is Africa is descended from people who came from Asia.

 

------------------

 

The idea that there is a Mitochondrial Eve and Y-Chromosomal Adam is just remarkable to me -- single individuals that we are all related to. Now these folks wree not arried to each other and they were not the only ones on Earth, but we still treat each other like Cain and Abel.

 

------------------

 

 

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4 hours ago, Chevdove said:

But, in my observation, the scientific community is very vague about the Y-DNA Sex chromosome because they don't want to shed light on the African male origin of all mankind living today.


Anthropologists , statisticians and everybody else are making it tough for biologists to get around it -because they reference the original Y-DNA in these published scientific research articles.    I have noticed, however,  more of a focus on what happened once "we modern humans" left out of Africa... 

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Troy

There is zero evidence that anyone is Africa is descended from people who came from Asia.

 

Are you sure about that?

What about the ARABS who dominate most of North Africa today and on down into Sudan?

Are you saying THEY came from Africa too?

It was my understanding that the Arabs in Africa were descended from the Arabs of Asian nations like Iraq, Syria, Saudi, ect...who invaded and occupied Africa centuries ago.

Many Egyptians claim Persian ancestry.
Persians are another Asian people from what is now known as Iran.

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6 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said:

Are you sure about that?

What about the ARABS who dominate most of North Africa today and on down into Sudan?

Are you saying THEY came from Africa too?

It was my understanding that the Arabs in Africa were descended from the Arabs of Asian nations like Iraq, Syria, Saudi, ect...who invaded and occupied Africa centuries ago.

Many Egyptians claim Persian ancestry.
Persians are another Asian people from what is now known as Iran.

 

WHAT?  The brother said there was no evidence (of your idiotic, unfounded gibberish) and here you are returning with none, only more gibberish.

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On 5/29/2018 at 1:54 AM, Troy said:

I guess compared to marrying you or I, it is a step up.

 

@Troy  @Pioneer1 
People are NOT commodities.  We are members of a networked community.    So, marriage is not a step-up but rather a strategic partnership based on goals.    

Since marriage is also government-sanctioned some people marry to expand their territories.  In this case, Meghan Markle put herself on a path to be a major player on the world stage.  By the time, Kensington Palace announced Meghan Markle and Prince Harry's engagement - she had already had several international speaking engagements (one at the United Nations) and was a world ambassador for World Vision Canada

 

 

 

Diplomacy isn't a new venue for Markle. She graduated from Northwestern University with a dual degree in Theater and International Relations. Before she graduated Markle briefly worked at the U.S. Embassy in Buenos Aires while there she also took the test to be a Foreign Service Officer.  She didn't pass. 

 

By the time she met Henry Mountbatten-Windsor, Markle was already a multi-millionaire.  In addition to her starring role on "Suits" she was a successful entrepreneur; she'd launched a lifestyle website called The Tig named best website by Elle and InStyle Magazines. She also had several endorsement deals including Ralph Lauren and Reitmans department store . At 36, maybe she decided it was time to pursue her first vocation in diplomacy but full time.   

Prince Harry seemed to clearly understand her goals and indicated it worked for him. 

In their first media interview after engagement announcement, Prince Harry said,

"...I know that the fact that she'll be really unbelievably good at the job part of it as well is almost is a huge relief to me because she'll be able to deal with everything else that comes with it. But, no, we're a fantastic team. We know we are. And, we hope to over time try and have as much impact for all the things that we care about as much as possible.



Although, Hollywood may paint women as starry-eyed romanticist; it would be foolish for anyone to believe that's the truth.   Those who are surprised by the strategy and tactics women employ in achieving their goals aren't paying attention.  


Markle marrying Prince Harry is a means to an end. It's also a great partnership because now Markle can really attend to world affairs. In fact, it's part of her job description as Duchess of Sussex.

 

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5 minutes ago, Mel Hopkins said:

Although, Hollywood may paint women as starry-eyed romanticist; it would be foolish for anyone to believe that's the truth.   Those who are surprised by the strategy and tactics women employ in achieving their goals aren't paying attention

 

Well said!  Her background is not indicative of a woman without her own agenda or, someone's token plaything or tool.  I look forward to paying close attention to her career and marriage!

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@Pioneer1 every human on Earth came from Africa, including everyone in Asia, or the Asian peninsula.

 

@Mel Hopkins from my quote about "marrying up" you take that to mean that I believe people are commodities?  The statement was made partially in jest.  But surely, you don't believe a Meghan would have any interest in marrying someone like me (assuming we were the same age) over someone in the British royal family.

 

Still, I can't be moved to care very much about Mehgan--who i never heard of before the marriage news.  I don't have any interest in the British royal family either.  Putting the two together does not generate any more interest for me either...

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Troy said:

"marrying up" you take that to mean that I believe people are commodities? 

 

@Troy  Yes!  But not just you; our entire western civilization society! "Marrying up" or  "She can do better"  "He married beneath him"  Those sayings are predicated on value.   Something useful or valuable is a commodity .  



 

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19 minutes ago, Mel Hopkins said:

He married beneath him"  Those sayings are predicated on value.   Something useful or valuable is a commodity .  
 

 

Brother, Troy, does it not depend on the beneficiary?  I think royalty there has much to gain having a Black woman in the family, I see Dutchess of Essex as an international value asset.  I think the Prince married-up!   'What I think/ is true for me as well as true of a fact.  Our Black women are humans this world is unworthy. 

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Come on @Kalexander2 Megahn is a white-looking multimillionaire celebrity she is not Nay-Nay from the projects.  Let's not pretend that all people are the same or viewed the same way.

 

@Mel Hopkins, people are not commodities for he reasons described above, a barrel is crude oil is, a bustle of corn is, but people are not -- we are unique, so we can not be "commodities."  No two people or groups of people are equal.

 

We, necessarily, made assessments of the "quality" of people every day.  Whether you are hiring a welder, surgeon, or basketball player some people are better than others depending upon how they are being measured.

 

If people were truly commodities it would not matter if Mehgan married me, Pioneer, or Prince Harry.  But the reality is that we are not commodities; a wealthy Prince is worth more than struggling bookseller. Hence "marrying up" is an appropriate description. 

 

This is not a western construct; we, in the west, are more likely to marry across class, race, religion, than many other cultures.

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8 minutes ago, Troy said:

Come on @Kalexander2 Megahn is a white-looking multimillionaire celebrity she is not Nay-Nay from the projects.  Let's not pretend that all people are the same or viewed the same way.

 

Brother – does a Black person need to be from Selma, Georgia, the projects, or Africa to be of value to the Black community?  Or, do they need to be wealthy, famous, of profound intellect, or dark-skinned to be respected as a Black person?  What’s that you say?  NO.  Then it really doesn’t matter whether he/she loves or hate their own community to instill a sense of pride and motivation.  It’s not her politics nor her origin, she’s Black; whether she likes, accepts it or not.  Can your daughters learn something, anything from the Black Duchess of Essex?

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10 minutes ago, Kalexander2 said:

Can your daughters learn something, anything from the Black Duchess of Essex?

 

No, nothing I can think of that would take precedence over the other things that they need to know to survive here in America.  But maybe I'm missing something.  Tell me what Meghan can teach my daughter besides how to nab a wealthy white man?

 

Still, I don't buy into the notion that Mehgan is like any other "Black" woman.  The suggestion that she is ignores a wide variety of things that are part of western culture.  Now if Harry married Gabourey Sidibe or Leslie Jones you might have a point, but you and I both know something like that would never happen -- not in 1 billion years 😊

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@Troy:  If nothing else, an embedded, verifiable sense of choice to follow, avoid, or go her own way.  As a Black man, I've chosen the latter; in spite of the fact I hate uncle Tom's Ben Carson, Herman Cain, and sell-out Barack Obama the pride they have confirms, so can I achieve, follow, lead, or go my way.

 

Maxine Waters of the U.S. Congress, like Mehgan she is like any other Black women; with a maternal instinct even with all the scars, cracks, and crevices of any human being.  Let's not get caught up in what she recognized, do or don't do for her female Black community.  This isn't "what have you done for me lately" kind of value.  

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Sure Mel commodities have value, but the value must be the same for each unit for it to be a commodity.  If every ounce of gold had a different price it could not be traded reliably and would not be a commodity.  The way you are using the word is confusing for this reason. 

 

If your point is to say that people have value; I say of course they do.

 

Or are you saying that we all have the same value, and this is why "marrying up" does not make sense?  

----

K2 by your description Mehgan is like any woman.  Again this is a notion that I reject because not all women (or men) are the same, some have more "value" than others when it comes to marriage.  The reality is marriage, at least a successful one, is more like a great business relationship with "benefits." :wub: 

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11 minutes ago, Troy said:

Sure Mel commodities have value, but the value must be the same for each unit for it to be a commodity.

 

@Troy  as I'm sitting here watching bloomberg - and looking at the board -the value changes depending on demand  and that's how we treat people.   We do it in the work place - and it seems to carry over to relationships.    Again, I'm not saying "YOU" - I'm saying our society does it when it comes to people  and I dream a world when we simply look at our community based on our goals.   You wrote  Harry wouldn't marry Gabby in billion years...  I get the sense that's statement was made on some arbitrary value assignment.   Is that correct? 

Edited by Mel Hopkins
Added commentary - edit people to relationships.
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5 minutes ago, Troy said:

Again this is a notion that I reject because not all women (or men) are the same, some have more "value" than others when it comes to marriage.  The reality is marriage, at least a successful one, is more like a great business relationship with "benefits." 

 

Granted, the business of marriage we're all involved with, in one way or another, for some benefit.  However, what's the differences that cause you to feel that way?  What is the crucial meaning of the difference?

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17 minutes ago, Mel Hopkins said:

GOAL MATES!!!

 

I was in Morocco some time ago and was shocked to learn it was the single female royalty capital of the world, to me that is, Black women, mostly from Africa with wealth, prestige, and profound careers.  Many left their home country to avoid jail, exile or other repercussions for cheating their people or ripping off their wealthy husbands.  Even more shocked that this information is never shared on the media.

 

Now, I wouldn't want my daughter to do the same, I admire the spirit, independence, and boldness of those women which is what Mehgan does for Black women worldwide.  Pride is a powerful motivator, something females, especially Black utilize better than us males.  

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12 minutes ago, Mel Hopkins said:

what wouldn't you want your daughter to do?  

 

avoid jail, exile or other repercussions?   

 

And do you believe these women were guilty without due process?  

 

Because doing anything worthy of jail, exile, or repercussions is self-defeating, following rather than leading or going on one's own way.  OH YEAH, with or without due process, they're guilty!!  Amneh, one sister from Mozumbic Africa was royalty in her village, she split with over 2 billion euros of the village and her husband's family's cash.  But it's not the point I'm trying to make here, nor does it matter to anyone except the women and their victims.  It's the independence, spirit, and bold determination to do what they wanted, for selfish gains or not.  They survive!!!  I recall being offered, more than once to wed for immigration to the U.S., I'm not going to tell you that if not for the notoriety I would have jumped without being asked twice.  Besides, I have a wife already and was too afraid of getting busted for abusing my citizenship for money.  

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i just never could get into the fairy tale scenario of Meghan marrying her storybook prince.  In a fit of superficiality, I thought her wedding gown was a dreary affair, and her hair unkempt.  And i was a little surprised at how sistas so eagerly bought into this scenario as if it were a romantic fantasy they had been secretly harboring.  I have little or no regard for Brittain's Royals who i consider a family of dull-witted parasites, paid homage for absolutely no reason.  During the frenzy over this marriage, some one mentioned that a black woman from Howard U had recently married an Ethiopian prince.  That, I think is cool! Ethiopians are a handsome people.  Harry is too fuzzy and ginger for my taste; i can just imagine his wet-dog essence when he sweats.   Yes, Meghan is ensured a lifetime of luxury and a place in history, but if i was young and ambitious and given an opportunity to "marry up", i'd take a fione,  smart, brotha from "old" money.   🤑 

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Yeah, sister Cynique, the fairy tale princess crap impressional young women gleam is just that; a fairy tale.  The scandalous royal family is about to come down to earth now that a real earthling has taken-up residence in Buckingham Palace.   They're about to find out that Black folks don't leave when asked nicely, you have to throw us out.  Smile.  

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22 minutes ago, Kalexander2 said:

OH YEAH, with or without due process, they're guilty!! 

 

 

@Kalexander2   Here  in America,  we are still have due process. We are innocent until PROVEN guilty,    And if anyone  is following the rules without question that makes them a follower who is obedient to authority,  That is the antithesis of being a leader.     I asked because your comment was sending mixed messages and I needed clarification. 

29 minutes ago, Kalexander2 said:

It's the independence, spirit, and bold determination to do what they wanted, for selfish gains or not They survive!!! 

 

YES!!! Now that's someone with the spirit of a leader.   

 

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HEY, so am I a follower because I didn't abuse my citizenship by marrying for money, by following the rules?

11 minutes ago, Mel Hopkins said:

anyone  is following the rules without question that makes them a follower who is obedient to authority,

 

HEY, so am I a follower because I didn't abuse my citizenship by marrying for money, by following the rules?

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