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What do you think of the ongoing battle between Pionner1 and Kalexander2


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Troy

I was "clowning" on you a little bit with that statement.....lol.

I'll agree with what you said about less educated people using violence more only because less educated people tend to be poorer, and again...there's a direct link between crime and poverty.
But I don't think education is the key factor in making people less violent.
As Del pointed out already, most of the wars in history were started by well educated Presidents, Generals, Kings, and other societal leaders.

As far as me personally........
I'm not sure where you got THAT impression.....lol.
If I believed in using violence to solve every personal conflict I wouldn't have made it past 25 years of age in this society.
Perhas you took what I said to Cynique about a man "taking down" those who talked about his mother and "fighting the good fight" as in PHYSICAL take downs and fighting -that's not what I meant.
Certainly if a man were to insult my Mother to my face, they would more than likely get a PHYSICAL reaction from me; but in general and especially online I'm talking about fighting with a war of words and ideaology.

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On 7/8/2018 at 3:53 AM, Pioneer1 said:

if a man were to insult my Mother to my face, they would more than likely get a PHYSICAL reaction from me

 

Again @Pioneer1, this is the point that I'm making.  @Delano if someone stepped to you and said, "your mother was a whore" would you beat them up or shoot them?  

 

@Cynique, you stole my thunder; your response was the one I was going to give Del. 

 

The only time I would get physical with someone is if they got physical with me or there was the imminent threat that they would get physical and I have not other alternative. Getting into physical altercations is a low class activity Pioneer and as you suggested class and education go hand in hand. There is nothing anyone could say to e that would prompt me into a physical altercation.  One of the first things you learn in school is "Sticks and stones..." 

 

Another thing you learn -- something that has been demonstrated here abundantly -- is that words don't have meaning -- people do.  If mere words can get you into a fight, you are easily manipulated.  

 

 

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I use a decision tree @Troy. Is it true. No reaction. I can't argue with the truth. I f my mother was a puta. 

If it is false. The person is uniformed. 

So either way they are trying to hurt me with words. 

So I would ask them the following question. What's the difference between three dicks and a joke. Your mother can't take a joke. 

@Troy

 

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On 7/5/2018 at 8:08 PM, Cynique said:

Unfortunately, i think more flunked the test than passed it. We were in the vanguard of ball-bustin' black sistas.  (Something I'm not particularly proud of.)  

 

I like it sister, Cynique, it keeps us guys on our toes, me anyway.  Submissive females are boring!!!

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Maybe you should tell the milkman the postman, and the fire department. So they can stop paying  child support. 

Have you e be ry wondered why you got so much better service than every other kid on the neighbourhood. 

 

It takes a village to raise a child. 

Your mama took the whole town. Sometimes she even double stuffed. 

I guess no one told her not to talk with a full mouth. Mmfmfm

1 hour ago, Troy said:

Ohhhh!  At least, I know who my dad is!

 

 

better tell ya mammy

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On 7/9/2018 at 3:24 AM, Troy said:

 

@Cynique, you stole my thunder; your response was the one I was going to give Del.

Why it missed an obvious point. We fight when our words are ineffective. 

 

That fight could be fists, court, guns, lawyers, bombs propaganda and other things. 

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We fight when we can't use our words.  Barbarians resort to violence to settle differences.

 

Del,  don't try to confuse the issue by conflating a court battle court with violence.  We were talking about violence and the propensity of less educated people to use it for minor slights, like talking about one's mother or getting cut off in traffic.

 

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You are mistaking your confusion with elucidation  

You and I differ you are content with using words. I prefer to use words effectively. 

Troy is educated and can throw down.

 

You beat  cats because you were fit. 

 

As a kid we sparred and played the dozens.

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Again I was talking about the relative level of education of individuals who would be willing to engage in fisticuffs because someone stepped on their sneakers.

 

I was not talking about wars between nations.  You are attacking a strawman again.  Why don't you just admit that people who want to fight someone simply because they talked about their mother is probably less educated than some who would not.

 

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@Delano and @TroyWHEW! I was wondering if I should enter this room... I was thinking maybe I should find some 'Yo Daddy jokes' or quotes to debate this point, but the

'Yo Mama quotes' outnumber all in this categorey and I am not blessed with delivering funny jokes! Anywhoo, I like to think of myself as a serious person, 

but, I can tell you, I too can get caught up into 'wanting to fight someone just because they say something offensive... even if I know I shouldn't take it personally...

there I go, getting all worked up... and regretting it later. 

 

I realize yall may not be all that into Bible history, but this is the best example that I can give for this conversation... David had gotten so worked up when his request was rejected by another man, who he'd ask for help that he sent word to the guy that 'he was going to kill everything that pissed on the wall' and the guy's wife made an intercepting because she knew that her husband was selfish. So she sent a party to meet David and his party and offered them the help. The next day, that guy had a heart attack and died and soon after DAvid, met that woman, ABIGAIL, and he married her. So I think this is a good example of how anyone can get 'bent out of sort and want to fight, no matter if they have substance or not. I hope I would never want to fight someone who steps on my shoes or says 'Yo Mama jokes to me'.... But Hey, I am not sure that I am immune though....

 

I hope not.

quote-i-have-so-much-respect-for-what-s-

 

May he RIP!

 

 

 

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Humor is an art.  The trick is for it to contain a smidgen of the truth, otherwise it falls flat. "Yo Momma" jokes are remarkably creative but hardly credible, all of which makes them easier to dismiss as street wise buffoonery not to be take seriously.  Some bypass this code of the jungle when they feel  the line gets crossed. And asses get kicked.   Such is life.   😧

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Troy and Delano

If you two want to prove a point about how easily insults of your loved ones can be brushed off, instead of telling "mama jokes"...why don't you talk about eachothers CHILDREN!

And let's see how far THAT would get.


Two friends who have known eachother for years joking about eachother's mothers can't be compared to two strangers arguing with eachother and one talks about the other's mother in a fit of rage.

The spirit and intent is ENTIRELY different.


 

 

 

 


Troy

You keep shifting the weight and moving the focus every time your point is disproven......


You first said that uneducated or less educated people are more willing to engage in violence with the slightest provocation.

When Delano correctly (actually he beat me to the punch) pointed out how some of the most educated people in the world in the form of presidents and other global leaders have been the main ones starting wars.....you then say that only uneducated people fight and get violent over mere words.

And when it is again pointed out that most wars beging when words are no longer effective in solving the conflict.

Now you're saying it's all about the INDIVIDUAL and not warring nations willing to fight over words.


If you think the only type of Black man who will fight you over insulting his mother is an UNEDUCATED one.....then try a little experiment:

Go back to the univesity you teach at and find atleast 10  Black male professors and/or staff members with Master's degrees or higher and insult their mothers and see how many of them get physical with you and how many of them brush it off.....lol.

That would be a REAL scientific experiment.

Social science.

Infact, why don't you RECORD IT on your celly and post the reactions on here....lol.

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3 hours ago, Cynique said:

Humor is an art.  The trick is for it to contain a smidgen of the truth, otherwise it falls flat. "Yo Momma" jokes are remarkably creative but hardly credible, all of which makes them easier to dismiss as street wise buffoonery not to be take seriously.  Some bypass this code of the jungle when they feel  the line gets crossed. And asses get kicked.   Such is life.   😧

 

LOL! On point! 

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No @Pioneer1 you and Del have a bad habit of setting up straw men (basically arguing against points you've manufactured, but that I've never made).

 

Pioneer you said you would get physical with some who spoke about your mother.  I said this was barbaric and speaks to a lack of education.  Of course there are other factors like class and the so called "honor culture" that play a factor, but less educated people solve their problems with violence and educationed people usually avoid getting into bar fights.

 

Now Deal attempted to bring in the issue of warring nations a point that was easily dispatched by Cynique -- even though I was not talking about nations, but individuals.

 

But  @Delano, is being completely disingenuous in this debate by making a statement like:

 

6 hours ago, Delano said:

I don't agree with the statement. it is elitist. You're either implying that education reduces aggression. Or there is an inherent difference between educated people and uneducated. 

 

But let someone like @Kalexander2 question his education and he gets completely bent out of shape -- almost as bad as if I talked about Pioneer's mother.  

 

@Delano, of course there are differences between educated people and uneducated ones this is not "elitist" this is simply a statement of fact.  Educated generally know more, are typically better able to assimilate new information, and expand upon and develop new ideas.  Does this make educated people better?  With regard to knowledge -- absolutely!  Why is this even a point of contention?!

 

This is like arguing that an athlete who trains and competes in basketball for years is no better than someone who never played the game. That would be a dumb assumption what make training the body and different than training the mind?

 

But back to the argument; Pioneer of course a friend talking about your mother is different than a stranger doing it.  But as Del reasoned the stranger does not know you mother, so why would their statement make you so upset that you want to fight over it?  Are you that really provoked to violence?  What is wrong with you?

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@Troy you continually keep confusing your opinions with facts. How can I be disingenuous for disagreeing with you. 

 

Growing up we insulted each others family's. I think of this as preparation for going out into the world. The difference between our dynamic is that I wouldn't make it can point to attack someone personally to win an argument. K2 has contempt for Pioneer and Cynique is annoyed by him. 

 

No what annoyes me is that he is disregards boundaries. And he offers advice without a basic understanding of a person. Both Troy and Cynique corrected him before I brought it up. So how is that get to me. No what gets to me is people who think they are sharper than me when it is clear that they are not. in the end I just ignore it because some people have an invincible ignorance.

 

Somewhere in one of the threads in actually had a long dialogue with K2 as to why he thought in was uneducated. He thought me questioning his belief about my education was attacking him. 

 

You and Cynique ascribe motives to me that are not mine. So I feel that you both are projecting your feelings on to me.

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@Delano  Let try to nail down some specific, because you are saying things that I have not said, then using those statements as a basis for arguing my point.  I would start to call you "Mr Straw Man," if Pioneer did not hold the distinction.

 

I'm not saying you are being disingenuous because you disagree with me -- that does not make sense.  I'm saying you are being disingenuous, because I don't think you are articulating what you truly believe. 

 

Perhaps it is because you don't want to appear to be elitist, as you assumed me of being. I don't know your motivation, but I simply do not believe you are arguing, truthfully, that there is no inherent difference between someone who is educated and someone that is not.

 

How many Phd's do you think are in jail for assault?

 

@Pioneer1, next time to you see 45, or even, Obama, kicking someone's ass because someone talked about their Momma you let me know. Shoot, I seriously doubt Obama ever had a fight; that smooth talker probably talked his way out of plenty of beat downs LOL!  Now both of these guys have used the armed forces to fight their battles.  That reminds me, Hillary and Obama celebration over getting Gaddafi killed was disgusting...

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2 hours ago, Troy said:

How many Phd's do you think are in jail for assault?

 

Not many. 

I wonder though, isn't this conditioning? More specifically, I think some people are trained from young, conditioned to think before they react, but others are 

trained to defend themselves... from young and it may be a cultural issue too. As a teacher for middle school children, I came across situations several times

where young Black children will say that their parent told them not to back down, but other kinds of children react totally different if they are bullied.

 

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6 hours ago, Troy said:

But  @Delano, is being completely disingenuous in this debate by making a statement like:

 

13 hours ago, Delano said:

I don't agree with the statement. it is elitist. You're either implying that education reduces aggression. Or there is an inherent difference between educated people and uneducated. 

Can you explain how my opinion is disingenuous 

 

Troy haven't you heard of the Bernoulli Family?

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@Chevdove, admittedly I've simplified a very complex topic.  I too was raised that if someone put their hands you you you hit them back, but my mother did not grow up in an environment with youth gangs.  I recall quite clearly backing down from two fights against dudes I could have easily beaten because they were gang members.  Neither guy pushed the issue so I was able to save face (saving face, trying not to look like a punk, gets a lot of dudes "kilt.")  There are many issues that result in guys killing each other for not good reason.  So ignorant, uneducated, and unsophisticated parents keep the cycle of violence going dooling out bad advice to their children.

 

One of the things that struck me is the difference in the way my kids were raised and the way I was raised -- they never had to fight.  Now they are girls and it sounds crazy to say it but girls fought almost as much as the boys in my day and the girls could be more vicious.

 

Being afraid, or rather wary of danger, on a regular basis is not a good thing.  It is just stressful.  I'm sure this stress is far worse for some today than it was for me. I know this is the reason people explode over minor slights.  People who live in nice neighborhoods have no clue what people who live in crime ridden ghettos have to deal with.  It is hard.

 

@Delano I did explain it.  I'll quote you (again):  I don't think you really believe what you wrote: 

 

13 hours ago, Delano said:

I don't agree with the statement. it is elitist. You're either implying that education reduces aggression. Or there is an inherent difference between educated people and uneducated. 

 

 

Of course there are inherent difference between the educated and the uneducated how on earth can you say there aren't? If there is no difference why did you bother to get a graduate degree and why do you make sure people know you have one or feel threatened when someone questions it?

 

 

 

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38 minutes ago, Troy said:

Delano I did explain it.  I'll quote you (again):  I don't think you really believe what you wrote

Before a person gets educated are they more prone to violence? Also a what level does this take place. If you were to say people are socialised to use words instead of violence, I would be more likely to agree with you. 

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Del, for the 3rd time: do you believe there are any inherent differences between educated people and uneducated people?

 

Del you have a habit of avoiding my questions, while I always make an effort to answer yours.

 

Yes, in general as a person's level of education goes up, one's propensity towards physical violence goes down. Wouldn't you agree?  How many MBA do you know who are convicted of doing drive bys?  I'll tell you, zero. Most perpetrators of drive bys are high school dropouts.*

 

@Pioneer1 when was the last time you were involved in a physical fight with someone?  How old were you and what did they do (assuming you did not start the altercation)?

 

 

----------

*I don't know this to be true, but it sound perfectly plausible doesn't it?

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2 hours ago, Troy said:

I know this is the reason people explode over minor slights.  People who live in nice neighborhoods have no clue what people who live in crime ridden ghettos have to deal with.  It is hard.

 

Yes, thank you!

You've spoken volumes. Some of the issues being raised here in this debate and conversation seem to correlate. Knowledge is power.

When a person has the opportunity to become educated and obtain a better quality of life, they have a better chance of making better 

decisions in times of conflict, but it still doesn't make them immune though, to lashing out.

And also, there are so many people that may never have a chance to live in a community where they don't feel constantly threatened. 

I didn't have to raise my kids as a single mother, but I feel so much passion for mothers who are in that situation and have to deal with 

gang violence. How do you protect your child? Jobs and opportunity are a benefit but after a person has been in a stressful environment

for a long time, they may still carry that defensive front with them and be aggressive to others for little or know justified reason. 

 

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Troy you have undermined your own argument. Poverty and poor socialisation skills lead to violence. The majority of domestic violence incidents involve a person being under the influence of alcohol.

When I was asked by admissions why I wanted to got to Grad School I said, I am always getting into punch outs at work. And I heard that having an MBA would curb my inherent violence. The director said that is the number one reason people pursue degrees. It's either that or masturbate. 

9 hours ago, Troy said:

- even though I was not talking about nations, but individuals.

The President declares war, and the last time I checked that was an individual. 

Can you name one war that was declared by the people not the leader. 

@Troy.

I will attempt to show the fallacy in your argument. Why aren't there more Phd that are champion boxers. Because writing papers is an easier way to make money than getting hit in the head. Does that mean Phd are less violent or aggressive. I don't know but there absence doesn't prove your point. 

The last time I was in a fight a couple of guys were trying to rob me. They got my money but one got a bloody lip. I was in Grad School at the time. 

I have been on this sire for years. And I believe I have only mentioned my degree after Troy mentioned his numerous degrees made him more knowledgeable about statistics. My friend you are playing with the truth loosely. 

I very rarely mention my degrees when I meet people. I think it's never but I am not certain. 

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 What we do know for sure, is that violence can be hazardous to one's health, and if one values one's life, an alternate way should be sought to settle a dispute. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to understand this, - yet violence is a common occurrence and prisons are filled with its perpetrators.  

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Del I won't argue with straw man, nor will I argue for absolutes.  There are no absolutely when you deal with human being, so you can always fine an exception.

 

I'm speaking about people in general, so if you want to believe that Phds are just as likely to commit crimes as a highschool drop out and that there are no differences between to the two people, then carry on. We'll have to agree to disagree.

 

I see the reason you continue to avoid answering my direct questions is that doing so will reveal the obvious.  But you won't do that. You waste time finding some exception to the general case.

 

In the Cosby case, if he was still living in the 'hood without the wealth and education he probably would be more "rapey."

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Del

The majority of domestic violence incidents involve a person being under the influence of alcohol.


Not only is this a great point...alcohol abuse and related violence cuts across all socio-economic lines.

Perhaps the only difference is wealthier more educated people have the money and other resources to cover up their crimes and bribe the victims.



Prisons create a stable work force


Do you mean by extracting labor from the prisoners?

 

 

 



Troy



if you want to believe that Phds are just as likely to commit crimes as a highschool drop out and that there are no differences between to the two people, then carry on.
 

The very well MAY be just as likely to commit crimes.....just not the same TYPE of crimes as a less lettered man.
Whereas the uneducated man engages in petty crimes of larceny or prostitution.....the highly educated man engages in bank fraud, embezzlment, and other white collar criminal activites.


I haven't gotten a response from you about that experiment....lol.
If it's your argument and conviction that education makes men less violence and less prone to physically reactions from mere insults.....why don't you go to highly educated Black men and insult their mothers or children and record the results.

Right now that is just theory......
But this experiment will provide EVIDENCE.

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See this is what makes debating you guys impossible: Del does not answer any directly posed questions and Pioneer (like) Del continue to introduce extraneous issues that have nothing to do with the core point I've made.

 

Pioneer we were talking about violence initiated because of minor slights like talking about one's mother, when you cherry picked my quote you took it out of context. 

 

Pioneer, as an educated man, I'm not about to go up to anyone and talk about their mother.  Your proposed "experiment" is just silly. Did you really expect me to do that, to disprove your point?

 

You are Del are so desperate, you'll dredge up anything you can come up with to confuse and muddle the point I made, and still stand buy, which is:

 

Less educated people are more likely to react violently when someone speaks about the mother than more educated people.  This includes additional other perceived personal slights like stepping on ones shoes or getting cut off it traffic.

 

All these issues raised about presidents sending people to wars, degenerates like Bill Cosby, or white collar crime are besides the point.

 

Pioneer says he would react violently if someone spoke about his mother.  Again I suggest this is a function of his education.  Del refuses to answer the question because he knows admitting that he would behave in such a fashion would make him look childish.  Plus Del does concede points easily -- instead he obfuscates the issue with unrelated points and engages in name calling (like calling me elitist when he knows full well I'm not). 

 

While Del does not concede points easily he will do it from time to time.  Pioneer on the other hand never admits he made a mistake, was wrong, or even misunderstood something (@Delano pioneer must be a fixed sign right?)

 

Obviously, as I pointed out to @Chevdove, these issues are not as cut and dried as my bold faced statement above makes may make it seem.  

 

 

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Who's surprised that everybody is pointing fingers when it comes to this debate.  i can't resist jumping into the fray.  Scuse me, Troy if i steal some of your points.

 

Violence is in a class by itself; it is mindless and spontaneous.   Discussing other types of crimes and who commits them is irrelevant to the discussion. The  traits which foster and  trigger violence in a person are the same ones which make him unlikely to pursue a higher education, a goal which requires discipline and higher intellect.  When alcohol becomes a factor, one's metabolism enters the picture and this is something an individual cannot control. An educated person who commits a violent act when inebriated, regrets his lack of good judgment once he sobers up.  Most likely the only thing an uneducated person  regrets when he sobers up, is that he got beat up or arrested.  

 

Mob violence is the result of gullible people being manipulated by agitators.  If these agitators are not educated, they are more than likely "smart".  

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On 7/7/2018 at 2:55 AM, Troy said:

There was a study that showed less educated people get more upset by perceived slight than more educated people do.  

This is what you said initially. So you are changing your argument to suit your point. 

 

You  say I am touchy about my education. I point out that i only brought it up because you were saying how many  degrees you  had in an argument. That we had more than a year ago. It is relevant to make my point. I'll stop dredging up the truth or show the history or basis of the argument. 

 

You don't believe I'm posting my true thoughts or feelings. You are confusing me with another poster. 

 

So I will  either agree with everything you say or i won't disagree. 

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@Delano, You still have not answered my question.  I won't pose it a 4th time. 

 

Actually when I was writing about you being touchy about your academic credentials, I was thinking about your recent reaction to K2's questioning them.  You obviously feel they are important, but you won't come out and say it now. 

 

Your education distinguishes you from your less educated Brethren -- embrace it 😉  Seriously, if you don't know no one else will... indeed a problem in our culture we don't value educational achievement: it is as if learning is something white boys do. 

 

How can I know if you are posting your true thoughts? When I ask you a direct question, for clarification, you ignore it.  So I, reasonably, assume you are hiding what you truly believe as not to undermine your argument, or to appear elitist, to protect Pioneer, or for some other reason I can not devine.

 

@Cynique There is psychology that explains mob violence.  It explains why otherwise compassionate people can be moved to do very evil things

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@Troy

I don't think educated people are different than uneducated people. Some people are more cultured, more mannered, more polite. I prefer style over class. Anyone can create their own style. Class is more social status. 

 

I was asking K2 those questions because I wanted to know why he believed something that isn't true. What i didn't do was try and convince him. 

You are projecting on to me. I think learning is more valuable than education. However like  K2 and Cynique you are free to have your opinion about me and my motivations. 

The 🔚

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Education is different than socialisation. What about education makes people less prone to violence? Since you seem to believe that. I don't believe that and  I have said that indirectly.I recently had someone say to me they only talk to people with a Masters. Like I said before I hung out with all the types of people. A barmaid said she thought I was aloof when I came to the bar. 

I am arrogant not elitist, you may be both. Pioneer is arrogant and democratic. Cynique is an intellectual snob but not arrogant. Mel is confident and class conscious. there may be some disagreement about these assignations. I am open to debate that is open.

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Now the question can be asked: "What do you think of the ongoing battle between Troy and Del?" For me, the old saying  about "one looking at the cow's head, while the other is peering up her ass", fits this situation.  Not mention that these 2 combatants are caught up in a contest to see who can lay claim to being the most misunderstood.  But do they understand themselves? Are they guilty of what we all are?  Sometimes failing to see ourselves as others do because of being either too subjective or in denial.  Bottom line,  personalities invariably get in the way when engaging in a debate.

 

When it comes to a violent reaction to having your momma dissed, which is the bone of contention between Del and Troy,  a lot hinges on the connotation given to the word "education".   There is such a thing as an "educated fool", while wisdom and good judgment can be learned from the school of hard knocks.  Violence is unpredictable because it's emotional. So is there a definitive conclusion as to whether an educated person will handle an insult to his mother better than uneducated one.  Only if you replace the word "educated" with the word "sensible" and "uneducated" with the word "impulsive". Are we done yet??? 😲                                              

 

@Del IMO, "class" is an indefinable factor.  You either have it, or you don't. It's something money can't buy.  Many people fall into the middle income bracket but this is not the same as being middle class because middle class  is about your  value system, not your pay check.  When it comes to style,   it can be either good or bad.  And, BTW, could you be more specific in accusing me of "projecting" when i make observations about you.

 

 

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All is fair in the fight between principle and ignorance; provided that is, the principle is moral or aspect of a fundamental assumption.  Brother Troy's supposition, although limited, I'm sure, can only be based on what he knows about the other party.  With little more, it's perfectly permitted for him assume by way of intrusive questions that may be taken as insults.  And why should he care since he has no control over the other party's innocent, common core ignorance?

 

Ignorance needs no validation - nor appreciation for being anything but insignificant ranting of a mentally exhausted mind forcing itself to maintain some form of clarity.  They value whatever their mind is capable, usually without sound judgment of definitive information.  Most may never truly know his-self because they will never accept the reality of being a 'loser.' 

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@Cynique, as I wrote in reaction to Chedove this is not a black and white argument, the subject is much more nuanced as you last post illustrated. 

 

Still I'm stubbornly trying to get Del to coneed that not only is there is a difference between having an education and not having one, but that it is also better to have an education. 

 

Of course there are educated fools and brilliant people who have no formal schooling.  again I'm talking about the general case.

 

My point about an educated person being less predisposed to reacting violently over a personal slight does not mean that the difference is causal, but that there is certainly a correlation.  Of course there are always exceptions, outliers, and anomalies.  To use these to loosely related exceptions like, Bill Cosby, just to refute a point seems disingenuous to me.

 

In the final analysis, Del won't answer my question "why should anyone bother to get an education?" Because the answer is obvious and it would dismantle his argument.

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11 hours ago, Troy said:

OK @Delano, why should anyone bother to get an education?

To make more money

 

Cynique  my statements about class still apply using yiur definitions. 

You detest Pioneer which makes you intolerant of his arguments. I just struggle with Troy's style of argument. 

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@TroyWell, the argument about the value of a college education was thrashed out when Pioneer made his case for black men not really needing to go to college. and got a lot of flack for saying this. Not surprising, no minds were changed and no consensus reached.  

 

Considering that Del has advanced degrees, if he so chooses, he  is qualified to speak on this subject because he can imagine how deprived his life would be  if he didn't have an education.  So, what you want him to do is to say you're right and he's wrong when it comes to the desirability of having an advanced education because he is proof of this. He, on the other hand,  thinks that since you have admitted there are common exceptions to your generalizations, this absolves him from conceding the point you are trying to make.   Incidentally, I don't think the  example of Bill Cosby supports either of your arguments because what Bill Cosby has  are honorary  degrees and ones he acquired by hiring someone else to write his thesis.   And his MO of taking advantage of women who passed out after he gave them drugs,  wasn't actually violent; it was, instead, despicable and sneaky.  Finally, Cosby's "education" wasn't what elevated his lifestyle. His comedic talent. is what earned him fame and fortune.  And so it goes...

 

@Deli posted this before i read your response, Del.  You are making assumption about my detesting Pioneer.  That's a strong word.  i'd describe myself as being impatient with him because he thinks he's an expert on black people.  And I don't agree that style is the same as class.

 

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Where did I say class and style are the same. 

 

I wasn't aware someone wrote his Phd. 

 

Perhaps detest is too strong a word. For the lack of affection you have for his style of argument. 

 

In a debate i would rather have him than your sycophant. 

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Cynique are you saying that rape isn't an act of aggression? 

What word you use to describe your feelings toward Pioneer?

 

@Troy can you mention some examples where you have seen education make people less violent. You went to more schools than i so you should have many more examples to illustrate your claim. 

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