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5 hours ago, Mel Hopkins said:

Even the fact that your question took away my agency by asking  me about Delano's perception - instead of simply asking me "do I believe black men respect black women".   Something as "innocent" as framing a question to a woman based on what a man thinks is disrespectful.

 

23 hours ago, Delano said:

Troy before you tell me the question i should ask maybe speak to some Black Women, and everyone else. 

 

 

Listening is important as well. 

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@Cynique I feel like what you said is disingenuous sister. The percentage of Black men that support Trump is less than five percent. And most of them are probably being paid or receive some type of benefit for their support. That's how they play this game, the way we should be playing it.

 

Black women don't look to Black men as their heroes, but that's a problem deeply rooted in our social structure. Like I said, most Black men I have been around will die for a Black queen. Real talk. I am not making that up. And a very small percentage I know would abuse and disrespect Black women simply because they feel entitled. I'm not trying to paint a picture that Black men are saints. But we are not as bad as everyone proclaims. And on the flip side of that coin, Black women are also not as bad as everyone proclaims. Most Black women I know would also die for Black men and go down defending him. These are my personal experiences. And anywhere I have traveled, I have not noticed a shift in this behavior so from my perspective this point of view seems accurate all across the board.

 

Also, Black people need to stop relying on mainstream media. This is where sites like this become so important. They have the power. Google our past history and examine how the number one search engine in the world gives you the results. For instance, Buck Breaking is a myth according to Snopes. White people never fed Black babies to alligators according to Snopes and if you want to discover new things about Nubian people, some of the results may have you believing or questioning if they were white people.

 

This is why the most important information I have about anything is what I can absolutely observe for myself. And when I view information that goes against my own experience, then I will rely on my personal experience.

 

Furthermore, saying Black men don't protect Black women is the same thing as calling Black men cowards. It's funny how they have us believing that Black men are cowards but yet, everyone is extremely afraid of us. I smell a rat and I'm not biting the cheese!

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@Delano

3 hours ago, Delano said:

Mel and Cynique are saying Black Men don't defend Black Women. How can you say their experience is wrong. That is not respecting their position.

 

I agree with this statement brother. It's their personal experience and it may be accurate. But this topic seems to be more of a generalization. If these women don't feel protected by Black men then that is their reality - but it is only their reality. And that doesn't make it everyone else' reality.

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3 hours ago, NubianFellow said:

I feel like what you said is disingenuous sister. The percentage of Black men that support Trump is less than five percent. And most of them are probably being paid or receive some type of benefit for their support. That's how they play this game, the way we should be playing it.

 

@NubianFellowi feel that what you said, doesn't apply to what i said.  The men i was talking about were the "peers" of black women in the field of journalism and elected offices - the ones who Trump has been attacking lately.  I didn't say all black men or make any reference to political leanings.  

 

3 hours ago, NubianFellow said:

Furthermore, saying Black men don't protect Black women is the same thing as calling Black men cowards. It's funny how they have us believing that Black men are cowards but yet, everyone is extremely afraid of us. I smell a rat and I'm not biting the cheese!

In regard to this, i said that black men do what is expedient in the mentioned cases; just as white men do. Neither have taken up for the their female colleagues, undoubtedly feeling that if these women can't take the heat, they should get out the kitchen.  Fortunately black women have each other's backs.  And,  it is what it is.  So, do you blame the media for how once black men make it in their field, a great deal of them marry white women?  Are "they" responsible for that??? 😮 

 

3 hours ago, NubianFellow said:

Also, Black people need to stop relying on mainstream media. This is where sites like this become so important. They have the power. Google our past history and examine how the number one search engine in the world gives you the results. For instance, Buck Breaking is a myth according to Snopes. White people never fed Black babies to alligators according to Snopes

Every black person i know or encounter on social media says the same thing you and Troy  say about it.   Black people are not as unaware as you two think they are.  Why don't you give them some credit for being able to navigate social media and take what they read with a grain of salt.    I don't know any black person who doesn't view the media with a jaundiced eye. But we pick and choose what we find provocative or entertaining. You 2 must have a lot of dumb naive friends. i also find it a little ironic that you trust Snopes to be an Oracle of the truth.  As for me not feelng protected by black men, as an old  widow, i have 3 sons who look out for dey momma, and 2 daughters who don't look to men to shield them.  The whole subject ain't something  I  dwell on.  

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4 hours ago, NubianFellow said:

Black men don't protect Black women is the same thing as calling Black men cowards.

And there lies the rub.  Black men don’t want to feel like cowards. 

 

So not wanting to feel like a coward is the reason for all the back-patting regarding random chivalrous acts?

 

 I can imagine that the alternative is hard to mentally reconcile. Mindblowing actually.

 

But imagine if black men didn’t make it about them - and actually did the heavy lifting of protecting black women.  

 

Black men failed once and that is how many black women ended up  shackled next to black men in those slaves ships.

 

Still, I don’t believe those African men were any less courageous than black american men today.  They were outsmarted and outplayed and did what they could to survive - even if was at the expense of women and children.

 

It’s similar to the environment today - but instead of fighting, revolting and uprising - it’s more of radio silence on issues that effect the most vulnerable in the black community.  

 

When women say things such as Hopkinson in that quote,  and a whole host of women share the same reality they don’t care if black men feel like cowards.  In fact that is the least of their worries. Have you heard of the me-too movement? It was started by a black woman Tarana Burke in 2006 because too many black and brown working-poor women were being sexually assaulted on their jobs that they couldn’t leave.  If they didn’t acquiesce to the men they would be fired and  eventually homeless with their children.

 

This is reality for a lot of black women.  Don’t be confused by hollywood giving their star power to help these women.  

 

Or let’s talk about the tens of thousands of underage girls right here in American being sold into sex slavery... 

 

So let’s be clear, we are NOT talking about individual acts of kindness and chilvary...It is rare for any man to turn their back on a woman face-to-face... I went to the bank today and didn’t open one door or have a man jump in front of me -BUT that’s not point.

 

We’re saying COLLECTIVELY, Black men aren’t covering black women. We don’t care what any othet ethnic group is or isn’t doing. - the topic black men covering black women. 

 

There has never been a march, a labor strike or movement organized by black men to stop the violence against black women or children...or a march against “welfare reform”  (@Troy)  that effects women and children.. or even march to make sure black women who are raising children single-handled get childcare, equal pay / raise in wages, paid time off to care for sick children or even a time off for mental health days... 

 

Black Men as a group have never even asked black women (the collective) what we need  to feel protected” -  

 

 

So, while a man may feel stepping up to stop a black man from beating a black women - is cause for celebration,  I say

NO.

 

As an actual black women who fellowships with other black women, that’s a beautiful gesture and life-saving

If it prevented a mercy -hospital type assassination of a black women ER doctor.

 

But in the grand scheme,  protecting a black women has nothing to do with a man’s ego... It’s ensuring that all black men have a future.  

 

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@Mel Hopkins It is feminist anti male rhetoric like this that holds us back as a people sista. You have said a lot, and most of it just doesn't hold weight. Black men are not cowards in any light I have seen Black men in. For the most part we are honorary and protectors of our families. When you say the white man outsmarted Black men, you mean to say white people outsmarted Black people, if that is the position you hold. But this a biased and uneducated view of the reality.

 

In saying that Black men have failed Black women you are saying that because the focus of African societies wasn't to build weapons of mass destruction to conquer other nations that Black men are responsible for what happened to them. This may be a valid point in some lights, however, this is one of the things that have differentiated us from them. While they were pillaging and killing the innocent, it simply wasn't our nature to do the same and therefore we paid a terrible price.  I agree we should have been ready.. but I see much of our history through the present. You see queen, we are our ancestors. So what does this mean?

 

Examine Black people's willingness to build together, leave white social media alone except for marketing purposes and focus more on Black social networks. But this is not normal behavior. Black people don't support Black people and one of the biggest reasons for this is due to how we communicate and network. Wanna know my definition of a slave? It's someone who accepts domination with no rebuttal. This is what our people seemingly do when faced with white supremacy. Remember, white supremacy can't exist without Black inferiority. In order for someone to be supreme, someone else must be inferior. By no means do I consider our people inferior, however, the behavior is very flawed and undoubtedly inferior behavior. This is not about men protecting women. It's about people rising to the calling. And our people simply don't step up. This must be how they defeated us in the first place.

 

To put everything on the Black man, who is fathered by the Black woman is just as insulting to the Black woman as it is to the Black man. You can't put down a Black man or woman without putting down all Black people. While it is true that we have flaws as a group, the focus needs to be more on parenting and instilling culture, moral and value into our children. Because we can nit pick all day. Trust me. And if you don't believe me, just go to facebook to see the childish ranting and experience the whole "Black gender war" agenda. And on top of  that, the solution, as many are putting it, is to date out. How quickly we abandon our own. Then blame the other for the current situation we are in. Our ancestors would be ashamed of this behavior.

 

Every bad thing you can say about Black men, trust me, they can point out why it's the fault of the Black woman and what you have is a social dysfunction in the Black community that would cease to correct itself. It would quickly turn into the blame game. There is much fault on both sides but you can't fix opinion. All you can do is argue about it. Want to fix something, then go after the behavior of the children's parents who instilled these beliefs into them. Perhaps there is something fundamental that our boys and women are not being taught that could be the cause of the social chaos and confusion that is prevalent in the Black community these days. We need to go deeper.

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@Delano Really? We exchanged viewpoints and ideas without being disrespectful. She gave her viewpoint and I gave mine. This is how I have seen men and ladies interact with each other and in my humble opinion, this is how I love to see my brothers and sisters behave towards one another. What you may consider depressing - I consider maturity. There are billions of us and over 50 million of us in the USA. We won't agree on everything. But that isn't depressing. Can you imagine how ineffective all of our movements would have been if we all agreed on everything instead of being honest about our beliefs? I would hate to imagine what that world would look like. But that would be far more depressing to me than a world where we exchange ideas and viewpoints. Otherwise, social networking is a waste of everyone's time!

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20 hours ago, Mel Hopkins said:

Even the fact that your question took away my agency by asking  me about Delano's perception

 

WHAT?! First, I can't take your agency away.  Second I asked you a direct question: did you agree with Del's assessment given that he took it upon himself to speak for you.  If you've construed that into my taking you agency then we'll just have to disagree.

 

12 hours ago, Delano said:

Nubian the reverse is interesting. If Black Men believe they are defending Black Women but are not. How do yiu change that?

 

Del you seemed have complete  to completely missed Nubian's point given the flawed premise of your question. The blanket statement that Black women are not being defended is untrue.  Barack is protecting Michelle Obama right?

 

A better question would be what do you do about the women who don't believe or are actually not being protected.  The answer is that it is all of our responsibility to see that this happens.  The NOI protect and defend their women -- wouldn't you agree @Delano, @Mel Hopkins, @Cynique or will you come up with some other silly reasons to dismiss this fact? Malcolm protected Betty, would any of you Sisters (and Del) dispute that?

 

I was on twitter a yesterday and at the top of my feed was this subject. I now see this was what drove Del brought it up. Again this is how this works.  Someone corporate entity generates some nonsense about Black men and women and Del people run around propagating it as if it has some validity.

 

20 hours ago, Mel Hopkins said:

notice how Delano called both you and NubianFellow "Girls"

 

Yeah I noticed that Mel, whenever Del's arguments fall apart he resorts to name calling.  

 

12 hours ago, Cynique said:

Every black person i know or encounter on social media says the same thing you and Troy  say about it.

 

@Cynique I see you never did research filter bubbles.

 

Before I left Facebook, I made a habit of hoping around rather than letting Facebook determine what I read and I ASSURE your there are many who are ALL-IN when it comes to social media seemingly blind to and ignorant of the adverse impact of Social media Facebook in particular.

 

Try reading Black Enterprise.  I had to stop, because all they did was tout the virtues of social media then i realized they must be being paid by the likes of Twitter to lie to us. Maybe I'm wrong but I doubt it -- in any case you can't tell by their behavior.

 

Cynique despite what you suggest with you anecdotal evidence of "everyone you know on social" our collective behavior speak volumes; for the 35 and under demographic most get their news from social media. 

 

8 hours ago, NubianFellow said:

To put everything on the Black man, who is fathered by the Black woman is just as insulting to the Black woman as it is to the Black man. You can't put down a Black man or woman without putting down all Black people.

 

Preach Brother!

 

I'm sorry so many women feel they are unprotected.  The truth is there are many Brothers who would lay down their lives in defense of their women -- I'm one of them. I'd be willing to bet @NubianFellow would too. 

 

Unfortunately this is not the the of story massive corporate media conglomerates are interested in telling and seemingly unless they validate it, it can't possibly be true huh?

 

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Hey fellows if your women says that you did something that  hurt her what's the appropriate response. No i didn't, you need stop listening to your girlfriends and that feminist bullshit. I take good care of you. 

 

No you listen to understand the problem. 

 

Do you think its manly to not man up and say i see your point. Sometimes its not about the answers but listening to the question. 

 

Troy I love the work that you do and how you want to make the world better. I know that you are not the type of man to disrespect women. But you can be condescending and dismissive. Mel said you took away her agency. That shouldn't be a discussion about you saying you didnt. Without understanding why she said what she said. 

 

Nubian a dialogue implies an exchange of ideas. What ideas did you reveive from Mel. 

 

Agreement and acknowledgement are different. 

 

Women are saying Black don't have their back. This strikes me as a an individual and collective statement. 

 

Before you say Black Men protect women ask the women you know and ask them why they answered the way they did. 

 

Not liking the answers doesn't invalidate the response. But not listening is an invalidation. 

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13 minutes ago, Troy said:

Yeah I noticed that Mel, whenever Del's arguments fall apart he resorts to name calling.  

 

Calling someone “Girls” ISN’T name-calling ...unless you believe it’s derogatory!  

 

Now, if you read my statement within this context of how we use language; the statement shows lack of respect for women. 

 

And NO, the NOI doesn’t protect black women. 

 

i understand your reason for your tunnel vision. It appears easier to mentally cope with the message if you reduce the group to bite size pieces.  However, respect and protection of a group doesn’t work like that.  It applies to the whole group 

 

This topic is about how black men as a group respect, protect black women or the lack thereof.  

 

The answer is Black men as a group have failed to respect and protect black women.  

 

That is the current state of the black america.

 

And black women who can,  have moved on. 

 

So, as I mentioned to Nubian, I’ll also offer to you. “Carry on”.  Stay in your mental safe space.   

42 minutes ago, Troy said:

The truth is there are many Brothers who would lay down their lives in defense of their women -

 

By the way, black women would rather black men stand up in defense of black women... dying is easy. 

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8 minutes ago, Mel Hopkins said:

 

Now, if you read my statement within this context of how we use language; the statement shows lack of respect for women. 

Was I equating girls with women

I didn't understand thus Mel until I talked with my partner. Would it be an insult if I called them children. No offense meant to women. 

@Mel Hopkins did you feel I was speaking for you. I hadn't thought so but Troy seems ti think so. Si i figured i would ask you. 

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43 minutes ago, Delano said:

Was I equating girls with women

 

@Delano,  (OFF TOPIC kinda )  I used your quote as an example of how our use of language - specifically how we use “gender” can be derogatory. “Polite” society no longer call black men “boys”- but in your usage  to infantilize “Troy and NF”  you reached for “girls” when “boys” would do.  

 

BUT  Society as whole uses “girls” as a derogatory phrase - and some women use it when they don’t want to appear as “old women”

It’s cute and quaint when women use it and it’s derogatory when men use it.  It’s like Nigger/  Nigga .   My intention wasn’t to call you out but rather to show how language  can show lack of respect. 

 

ON TOPIC 

No, I didn’t get the sense you were speaking for me  - It seems to me you raised an important topic like “climate change”...  

 

This one is currently part of the national dialogue because of 45. 

 

He weaponizes language - and he knows black women see through him but he also know the status of the black community.

 

If black men organizations came after him after his outburst against the black women white house correspondents, they would have weakened him...catching him off guard.

 

But not a peep.  

 

So thank you.  I internalized the exchange- so not to think about it.  This is better because now I can release it.  

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You ladies (and Del) are being inconsistent and are mistaking disagreement with a lack of understanding.

 

Your thesis is that, Black men as a group have failed to respect and protect black women.  Obviously, I agree.

 

Now because I disagree with this I'm called a girl (or infantilized), I'm told I'm not listening, I'm told I'm taking away people's agency, etc, etc.

 

However, in reaction, I gave examples of Black men who have protected Black women -- all of which have been ignored. I attempt to explain why you all hold this belief and it is rejected out of hand.  

 

This conversation is like one of religion, politics, or one's affinity for social media; one in which people have dug into the respective corners and uninterested in considering opposing ideas.

 

My evidence that Black men collectively protect Black women (and vice-versa) is our survival in the country after hundreds of years of enslavement. We as a people could not have gotten where were are today without some form of mutual defense. I've also shared anecdotes from with wider culture, like the National of Islam's protecting Black women  -- all of this has fallen on deaf ears.

 

All I can assume is that you ladies have brought into the disinformation promulgated by the broader culture which degrades and marginalizes Black people -- Black men in particular. 
 

@Delano, since you ignored all of my questions I can only assume you do not spend a great deal of time with groups of Black men and have no personal experiences with the stories of us coming to the defense of Black women, so it is harder for you to relate to us.

 

The invisibility of Black men (middle aged men in particular) is a theme I raise from time to time and it is ALWAYS summarily rejected. This conversation is additional evidence of our invisibility in the mainstream culture.  There is a great deal of misinformation that has been absorbed by not just our Sisters but our Brothers (or at least Del) that needs to be countered.

 

This is one reason I run AALBC.  There are powerful stories of Black men protecting Black women available: read the novel Black by Joan Vassar.  You might also try reading the novel Raisins in Milk by David Covin.  These novels help counter the narrative of the helpless, hapless Black man who is too powerless to defense his woman.

 

These novels are uplifting, powerful stories about love and family.  You won't discover these novels on corporate platforms, who have no interest in uplifting Black people. If you get nothing else from what I've written consider reading these novels to counter the narrative of weak Black men. The future of our culture is on the line.

 

 

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@Troy

 

1. For the record, I identify by “woman” not “lady”. 

 

2.  Re-read the thread.  There is agreement on respect and protection on an individual basis.  No one is disputing that some black men are protective in their intimate relationships.  BUT if you don’t ask, listen and seek understanding from those you say you care  for then that’s showing  disrespect.

 

(With black women like me disrespect will get you kicked to curb no matter how great you think you are. )

 

3. Back to the thesis.  That was the topic in question - Full Stop.  Glad you agree.

 

 

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8 hours ago, Troy said:

Cynique despite what you suggest with you anecdotal evidence of "everyone you know on social" our collective behavior speak volumes

@Troy It never occurs to you that you aren't trapped in a bubble or that your "hopping around" isn't any more credible than my "hopping around" because there is absolutely nothing impartial about your opinions. After using the gigantic number of 3 regular male posters  on this board as proof of black males  protecting black females, you proceed to suggest further, using anecdotal evidence and personal speculation,  that everything about social media is negative, and there is nothing to be learned from it,  that it is the source of misinformation which is brainwashing black people especially those in a certain age bracket, and that everything wrong with the black race today can be traced to the media because black folks are either corrupted by financial pay-offs from the media or are so dumb and gullible that they can't think for themselves. Everybody is out of step but you. On previous occasions, no sooner did you complete your routine scoldings about black consumption of the fake news dispensed by the media, you switch gears and lecture us about how blacks should  gratefully revere how far we have come in the good great country of America. Donald Trump would be proud of you as you share his bubble.  I agree with a lot of what you say about the media, but you blindly hate social media to the point of being  irrational about it.  

 

You and Black Nubian come across to me as romanticizing the role of black men as protectors of their women.  Your breast-beating rhetoric reeks with mawkish nobleness and false bravado even if your illustrations are mundane examples of what most men would do if backed into a corner. Not to worry. Historically, white men rather than protecting their women, oppressed and controlled them.  So they are not heroes either.  The male and female of the human species seem destined to always be locked in a struggle over who copes best with the enormous male ego.

 

You tell us to read inspiring "novels", which implies that the stories are fiction, and you expect these books to cancel what we have observed in reality. And your references to black Muslims protecting their women makes no impact on me because i can only go by what you say, having never seen any examples of this in spite of living close to Chicago, the home base of Elijah Muhammad and Louis Farrakhan. Who were they protecting their subservient women from??  Their lecherous leader?  

 

IMO, black men have no obligation to automatically protect all black women.  Armed with the defense mechanisms which have enabled them to establish a reputation as being strong and independent, sistas can take care of themselves. Black men, on the other hand, are left with the constant burden of trying to show they aren't weak and inadequate.  

 

17 hours ago, NubianFellow said:

...white supremacy can't exist without Black inferiority. In order for someone to be supreme, someone else must be inferior. By no means do I consider our people inferior, however, the behavior is very flawed and undoubtedly inferior behavior. This is not about men protecting women. It's about people rising to the calling. And our people simply don't step up. This must be how they defeated us in the first place.

This assessment is so true and is what really resonates with me. At least we can agree on something.

 

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Troy are you kidding. You said the article was bs and not true. That is vastly different than saying you disagree. You refused to acknowledge that Black Women feel unprotected by Black Men. 

 

I suggested asking women and everyone else what they thought. To listen and understand a position that differs from your own. 

 

You seem to conflate issues. I heard a critique from Mel and Cynique about a global dynamic yiu heard a personal criticism. 

 

You  ask if i spend time with groups of Black. Whuch implies I am not qualified to ask a question or have an opinion. The irony is that yiu refuse to accept other opinion's based on a really small sample of the wrong group. 

 

Agaib ir sounds like you are in a bubble and have an inability to accept divergent opinions. 

 

Then you say you agree with the article. 

 

In your job you talk to a lot of Black Women try listening. 

 

If you want the answer about the circles i ran and run with message me. 

2 hours ago, Mel Hopkins said:

BUT if you don’t ask, listen and seek understanding from those you say you care  for then that’s showing  disrespect.

 

8 hours ago, Delano said:

Before you say Black Men protect women ask the women you know and ask them why they answered the way they did. 

 

Not liking the answers doesn't invalidate the response. But not listening is an invalidation

 

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4 hours ago, Troy said:

My evidence that Black men collectively protect Black women (and vice-versa) is our survival in the country after hundreds of years of enslavement

Using that logic so was Slavery Industrial Complex or SIC. Since African Americans are descendants of people who were enslaved and slavers 

Culture outlives it's progenitors. 

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@Mel Hopkins 

 

(1) OK woman, why don't you like being referred to as a "lady?"

(2) Again, don't confuse my disagreement with a failure to seek understanding.  I completely understand what you wrote I just disagree with it as it applied to Black men collectively.  I not accusing you of failing to understand me.  I am however of accusing Del of this; I often asked Del questions to clarify my understanding of what he writes but he never answers those questions while you usually do (I'm confident you'll address my question about "lady" to further my understanding of you thinking and not leave me to speculate

(3) OK

 

@Cynique I always loved your way with words -- even when you are completely off base 🙂 I don't even know where to begin, because you just can't see my point.  We live In a country where we've elected 45 as president, still you think everyone is sophisticated enough to see through the nonsense he and his trolls push out on social media.  If this does not tell you how easily people can be manipulated by social media  -- nothing can and I give up trying. 

 

I still think people should spend more time reading books than social media, but I guess those days are fading away.  Teenage white boys like, Mark Zuckerberg, will determine what Black people read and think, except for the people like you who can see through it all.

 

Despite your disparaging novels as it relates to reality; novel help people understand each other, more so than any mechanism I'm aware of -- even direct communication with someone else.  I'm sorry you don't see it that way.

 

@Delano

 

I'm tired of trying to understand your perspective on this partially because you have a habit of eak for others rather than yourself.  Why do YOU think Black men don't respect or defend Black women. 

 

Also, I don't need to you to tell me I took away Mel's agency or that I'm not listening to her -- she can do that.  Ask much as I like Mel I don't agree with everything that comes out of her mouth, and my disagreement is not always because of a lack of listening. Should no on is perfect  and Mel is capable of being wrong. 

 

If you really wanted to answer my question you would have just DM'ed me the answer. rather than asking me to do it here.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Ask someone with a sense of humor like @Cynique to explain it to you @Delano

 

True, I don't like your style of telling me what I don't understand while ignoring every question I pose for clarification.

 

I do try to listen, perhaps you should consider doing the same.

 

Fortunately, there are people in my life who can hear me.  That does not mean they can hear me all the time.  Shoot, from time to time, you even hear me Del.  I don't expect perfect clarity with all people all the time... we are merely human.

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1 hour ago, Troy said:

still think people should spend more time reading books than social media

@Troy How do you know they don’t?  

 

And even if they don’t,  they are still listening to voices that resonate with them. How is that any different than reading a book?  If they do read - they still choose the voices they want to hear.     

 

2) The reason why I don’t identify with “lady” - is the same reason you wrote “ladies and Del” - You could’ve wrote Ladies and Gentleman (Del) but your use of attributive noun and Del’s  name was deliberate.  

 

I find people use “Lady” for two reasons to show respect but really have no respect for the woman - or to suggest the woman behave in a way they believe a woman should act. 

 

I don’t call men “gentlemen” either.

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@Mel Hopkins Pew Research publishes studies on this each year.

 

Mel, at the risk of mansplaining reading book provides a deep dive into cultures outside of one's own.  The books I've enjoyed the most did this for me.  Whether it was the The Kite Runner or Cold Mountain, reading outside ones culture broadens one's perspective and helps one relate to their fellow (wo)man.  You simply can not communicate ideas contained in a book on social media.

 

Sure their are people who only read stories in the same genre from their own culture -- stuff they are familiar with.  I think these readers short change themselves.  It s sort of like going to Atlantic City every year for vacation. People can do what makes them happy, but that is not me, there is a whole world to explore.  The same holds true for the World Wide Web; even if facebook were well behaved, why limit yourself to that one platform?

 

I hear you Mel.  From my perspective woman/man is a gender ladies/gentleman is more polite and formal way of addressing someone.  I think we should keep that distinction, as it make the language richer.  It is like the word father:  a sperm donor is a father, but there is no English word to distinguish one who raises their children.

 

13 hours ago, Delano said:

Listening to someone doesn't mean they felt that you heard them. 

 

Obviously, this is true.  Generally, this is the case when the other person holds a different opinion.  

 

10 hours ago, Delano said:

There's no place for name calling. My apologies. 

 

Ah, don't sweat it man, we all do it from time to time.  I just try not to make it a substitute for a good argument 😉

 

For those of you who celebrate the white man's holiday, HAPPY THANKSGIVING!

 

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20 hours ago, Troy said:

We live In a country where we've elected 45 as president, still you think everyone is sophisticated enough to see through the nonsense he and his trolls push out on social media.  If this does not tell you how easily people can be manipulated by social media  -- nothing can and I give up trying. 

 

 

Troy, how many times do you have to be reminded that Trump lost the popular vote by about 3 million votes?   Or that a comparatively small amount of black people voted for him, or support him now.   Liberal and Social Democrats and Independents  also didn't vote for and do not now support him and none of these groups are fooled by what Trump and his trolls put out on social  media!  They are more occupied with agreeing with all the anti-Trump memes and excerpts from anti-Trump Liberal publications, as well as arguing with and refuting Trump supporters.  So who are all of these unsophisticated folks who you claim are being misled by Trump trolls?  Trump's base are the ones who are guillible and misled and that's by choice.   Social media was what greatly contributed to getting out the vote which resulted  in Dems gaining a majority in  Congress.  So you do need to give up trying, because the point you are struggling to make is weak. 

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3 hours ago, Troy said:

hear you Mel.  From my perspective woman/man is a gender ladies/gentleman is more polite and formal way of addressing someone.  I think we should keep that distinction, as it make the language richer.  It is like the word father:  a sperm donor is a father, but there is no English word to distinguish one who raises their children

Dad

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@Cynique as you well know the popular votes does not matter why brig it up.  45 won the electoral college.  The Russian are not stupid they did not just all willy nilly post positive Trump content.  They went in, with surgical precision and target the right people with the right message encourage some not to vote and firing up his base in swing states.  You clearly are unaware of the scope and magnitude of the campaign waged on Facebook to influence the election.

 

@Delano, Dad is synonymous with father and does not connote anything about the quality of rearing.  You have to say he is a "good" dad or "poor" dad to make the distinction. 

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Dad Daddy Pop Pops Daddy Poppie Pa are all synonymous with father. There's an implied affection because of informality. If the young child is calling his parent father this implies formality and perhaps a lack of warmth or emotion. 

Big Daddy, Sugar Daddy, Big Poppa, Daddy O, Dads Da. 

The following were movie which ones do you think were mire formal . 

Poppie 

Da

Big Daddy

The Good Father 

 

 

6 hours ago, Troy said:

I hear you Mel.  From my perspective woman/man is a gender ladies/gentleman is more polite and formal way of addressing someone.   

 

Like a Lady of the Night. 

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4 hours ago, Delano said:

Like a Lady of the Night

 

Yes much more polite than hooker, whore, prostitute, street walker, etc.

 

4 hours ago, Delano said:

There's an implied affection because of informality.

 

You imply it but that it is not universal, the way the words Woman and Lady are. You can find that distinction in the dictionary. 

 

If I say, "he is my dad," that does not tell you if he was a good dad or bad dad.

 

However, if is say she is a lady that tells you something positive about the caliber of the woman.

 

Now I appreciate lady comes with some baggage of culturally defined rules of what being a lady means, but there is a distinction none the less.

 

@Delano, English is your first language right? I feel like im teaching my GED class to a non native speaker 😉

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A lot of interesting thoughts in the conversation.

Let me just say that AfroAmerican women can't have it BOTH ways.

They can't run around society telling everyone how STRONG they are and taking pride in being strong and aggressive and relishing in the fact that they are independent and don't need a man because they're strong enough to take care of themselves.........
But as soon as racist Caucasian men start attacking them and putting the fire to their ass they want to run back home and start banging on the door demanding help and support from the AfroAmerican men they just dismissed as being ineffective and untrustworthy.

AfroAmerican women need to decide WHO their allies will be: White women or Black men.

Many of these White feminists that AfroAmerican women were singing songs with and roasting marshmellows with as they bashed "toxic mascuinity" together infront of camp fires have run off and abandoned them now.
They've gotten back with their wealthy and influencial White husbands.
.....Black women better wake up soon!


Goldie Taylor needs to WAKE UP!


Better yet someone needs to call her tonight and WAKE HER UP.

Wake her up from the middle of her deep fried turkey dream sleep with cornbread crumbs still falling out of her mouth and ask her IN WHOM does she place her trust and dedicate her loyalty:  White woman or the Black man?



 

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21 hours ago, Troy said:

 as you well know the popular votes does not matter why brig it up.  45 won the electoral college.  The Russian are not stupid they did not just all willy nilly post positive Trump content.  They went in, with surgical precision and target the right people with the right message encourage some not to vote and firing up his base in swing states.  You clearly are unaware of the scope and magnitude of the campaign waged on Facebook to influence the election.

The popular vote does matter when it comes to showing how flawed the electoral college is! The fact that Hillary got millions more votes than Trump was a moral victory for Dems  and provided a push-back for Trump's bragging as well as offering proof that victory has been unfairly denied  Democrats; twice! And you are right up there with the Trumpites trying to dismiss this fact as insignificant!   Bottom line, the Republicans won the presidency on a fluke, but this would've probably happened whether the Russian scammed FaceBook or not because Trump, himself, appealed to racists malcontents in key states,  all on his own.     

 

 Yes, the Russians galvanized stupid white voters, but the only impact they had on the black vote was to make them hate Trump more.  Yes, the Russians polarized the country  by fueling the flame of racial discord, and FaceBook inadvertantly helped them, but nobody had to convince blacks to oppose the party of George Bush, who they detested and disrespected, - the party of Barak Obama who they were loyal to.  Yes, Bernie, may have siphoned off black votes from Hillary, but the fact remains that the majority of black people stuck by Hillary, as the lesser of 2 evils and the Russians and FaceBook had nothing to do with it. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.  As opposed to you who are in denial about the significance of the popular vote being won by Hillary.  

 

 

14 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

...They can't run around society telling everyone how STRONG they are and taking pride in being strong and aggressive and relishing in the fact that they are independent and don't need a man because they're strong enough to take care of themselves.........
But as soon as racist Caucasian men start attacking them and putting the fire to their ass they want to run back home and start banging on the door demanding help and support from the AfroAmerican men they just dismissed as being ineffective and untrustworthy.

No body wanted to "run back home, banging on the door looking for support from black men.    The argument that black male journalists and political office holders were missing in action when it came to defending their female colleagues from Trump's bullying  was a retort from black women.  It was given in response to  black men who were saying that they protect their women.  Also accompanying this retort to men's claims, were remarks in regard to  how reassuring it was that sistas had each other's backs and were strong enough to withstand injury.   As For Goldie,  Mel explained where she was coming from, but it apparently went right over your head.  That's why i give her "likes" because she's always on point.      

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23 hours ago, Troy said:

Pew Research publishes studies on this each year.

I’m aware of Pew Research and read their reports too - I’ve actually linked some of the reports here. Although I don’t believe I used the reference to answer a question but rather to let others know SOME research is available 

 

However, @Troy this doesn’t answer the question.

 

If you and I were the sample - it would indicate 100% of social media users read a mininum of 2.5 full-length novels and non-fiction books per month.

 

 Add in 3/4 of my list of twitter followers (authors) and those I follow (journalists, authors, directors,  show creators) and that number could rise to 5 books per month. 

 

So please let’s stop assuming social media is an influence on our intellectual prowess or lack of it . It’s just another platform competing for attention. 

 

By the way, you can deep dive into cultures through social media too - and a lot quicker than reading one person’s  personal perspective in a book.  

 

cultural information shared in real time and co-signed by others is far more valuable then an independent voice whose been edited down to appeal to the average audience.  (Yes mainstream books appeal to the average audience)

 

Coming full-circle, your rant against SM speaks more to the group of middle-aged black men that you say are invisible in media. 

 

Identity politics is an outgrowth of social media as it was an ideal platform to form alliances and advocate for their causes.  

 

You mentioned black men don’t use social media that way.  Maybe this answers the question as to why black men don’t advocate for black women -

 

Through your words it appears black men don’t collectively use any platform to advocate for themselves.  

 

Damn, now that I think about the last time black men got together was when Minister Farakhan called y’all to Washington in ‘95. !?!?   oh snap!

 

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8 hours ago, Cynique said:

FaceBook inadvertantly helped them

 

I'm not so convinced of this now.  Did you know Marky Z. knew about Russian meddling before it was known to the public?

 

8 hours ago, Cynique said:

majority of black people stuck by Hillary, as the lesser of 2 evils and the Russians and FaceBook had nothing to do with it.

 

This is simply not true and is documented as such.  When I was active on social media, I was feed so much anti-Hillary stuff, I almost did not vote for her.  Cynique, it was you you talked some sense into me. The FACT is that Black voter turnout was LOWER in 2016. You can say that Facebook, and social media in general, had no impact, you are very ;ikely wrong given what we know today. 

 

Cynique, you are smart and by nature cynical.  You lived MOST of your life before there were smartphones and commercial Internet.  The majority of people running around today are NOT like you -- a huge portion of the electorate is deeply influenced and in many ways controlled by social media. 

 

I've seen all sides and have been a keen observer of the internet even before is was made available to the public.  Rather than stubbornly sticking to your story, consider the information of someone who knows more about the subject than you.  

 

11 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

They can't run around society telling everyone how STRONG they are and taking pride in being strong and aggressive and relishing in the fact that they are independent and don't need a man because they're strong enough to take care of themselves

 

There is some true to this statement.  I can say, in the south, culturally gender roles are much better defined. Some call it "old-fashioned," in any case it i certainly less confusing 🙂 People who don't like this can always move to NYC or San Francisco. 

 

8 hours ago, Cynique said:

The argument that black male journalists and political office holders were missing in action when it came to defending their female colleagues from Trump's bullying  was a retort from black women. 

 

Yes that is the point of what I call Black male invisibility! First, please don't judge Black men collectively by this group of politicians and journalists. 

 

Second, when 45 was trying to shut down the white  guy another white guy immediately vouched for him. When he was dissing April Ryan. Was there another Brother in the room to voucher for her? Was another Brother even given a mic during the entire press conference? Would this mythical Brother have jeopardized the press credentials for the media outlet he represented? 

 

32 minutes ago, Mel Hopkins said:

By the way, you can deep dive into cultures through social media too

 

Yes, I know you feel this way.  I of course complete disagree, for the reasons previously stated and more.

 

34 minutes ago, Mel Hopkins said:

Through your words it appears black men don’t collectively use any platform to advocate for themselves.  

 

If you mean Twitter or Facebook no.  Again, you can not use the tool of our opressor for our liberation, because we do not own or control it.  There are fewer Black owned websites today which get much traffic or generate much revenue than there were 10 years ago.  As Nubian Fellow was trying to explain Black people don't use our platforms (present company excluded). 

 

I sent you that DM Tweet correcting the WKDU story, which gave Publishers Weekly credit for my research.  Then they lied and said it was because there are a variety of different numbers out there counting bookstores, that is because those sources reference my database at different times and publish different numbers. This is easy to determine,  but rather than reference a Black-male owned website they instead gave credit to Publishers Weekly, the venerated white publication.  This is a subtle form of marginalization that AALBC experiences regularly that goes unchallenged. -- even by my supporters.

 

The full impact of this, over two decades, is impossible to describe on a discussion forum (that is what books are for 🙂), but the bottom line is that we do not have any platforms that Black people support to a great enough extent to effectively advocate for ourselves. 

 

Many of us make great sacrifices trying.

 

You mentioned the million man march, which as you know the mainstream media marginalized as well, focusing on Farrakhan personality (this influence is why many Black people dislike him). Today the Final Call Newspaper is perhaps he largest Black owned Newspaper in the country.  The National Newspaper Publishers Association voted it the best newspaper in the country (out of 200 newspapers).  As far as I know it is the ONLY nationally distributed newspaper in the U.S.

 

Of course the biggest disadvantage of the publication is that it is run by the National of Islam, so many Black people will not touch it.  Say what you will about the Nation, they have demonstrated the power of Black institutions and what is possible.  

 

But since they are marginalized by mainstream media Black people generally don't see the potential.

 

 

 

 

 

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39 minutes ago, Troy said:

The FACT is that Black voter turnout was LOWER in 2016. 

 

@Troy  you’re all over the place.

 

Let me fix this for you.  Since you mentioned GA elections in a previous post  - I’ll use it as a guide. 

 

Here you go “

 

@Cynique, I don’t dispute the fact  black people were rallying for Hillary Clinton - but we now know some Black voters were disfranchised in the 2016 Elections - a concerted effort made by unscrupulous GOP secretary of states that sought to suppress the black vote.  For example a recent expose revealed the Secretary of State Kemp purged 1.4 million voter registrations (mostly in Black precincts)  since 2010 

 

We didn’t know  then but as a result of more black people running for top state offices shed light on voter suppression in key electoral states. “

26 minutes ago, Troy said:

That DM, nor Twitter, will fix a thing. 

 

🙄 You, the point; never the two shall meet...

 

TROY!  You just admitted you used Twitter (social media) to correct the writer!   

 

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1 hour ago, Mel Hopkins said:

TROY!  You just admitted you used Twitter (social media) to correct the writer!   

 

{exasperated sigh} Mel I could have used email to accomplish the same thing, I simply used Twitter as a means for communication, because that was what WKDU provided. I DM'ed you because I know you use Twitter and it was trivial to forward the message to you on Twitter.  Again the same could have been accomplished via email, but you meet people where they are.  I could not have done the same thing using Facebook -- simply because neither you or I used Facebook.  That does not make Twitter platform for eliminating racism or anything more significant.  It is a commercial platform designed to generate profit, seemingly at any cost.

 

I could not have shared the message with Cynique, or any of my family or most of my friends, because none of them use Twitter.  

 

Twitter's days are numbered (you heard it hear first).

 

 

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3 hours ago, Troy said:
12 hours ago, Cynique said:

majority of black people stuck by Hillary, as the lesser of 2 evils and the Russians and FaceBook had nothing to do with it.

 

This is simply not true and is documented as such.  When I was active on social media, I was feed so much anti-Hillary stuff, I almost did not vote for her.  Cynique, it was you you talked some sense into me. The FACT is that Black voter turnout was LOWER in 2016. You can say that Facebook, and social media in general, had no impact, you are very ;ikely wrong given what we know today. 

So,  you're saying the majority of black folks didn't vote for Hillary as the lesser of 2 evils, and then citing yourself as a reluctant black voter who did vote for her.  Who, then, did the majority of black voters vote for? While keeping in mind all the black votes that weren't counted, i am saying that it doesn't matter if the black turnout was less than the previous election because the majority of those who did turn out, voted for Hillary and this was due in part to black people like you who voted for her in spite of their misgivings. In other words, you haven't made your point.  And you are also implying that if social media didn't exist then the Russians couldn't have influenced the election and Hillary would've won.  Pure speculation and if this conclusion is based on  the vague "documentation" you refer to,  then i am again underwhelmed especially if it was the finding of the analysts  who previously predicted Hillary would win.  

 

 Of course, I'm just expressing  my take on this subject, but there are a lot of really informed smart black folks who make up the black twitter community and who could  construct a strong case in support of it.  What is your rationale for predicting Twitter will end with Trump's presidency?      

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Twitter (like Facebook) is losing users and is already largely irrelevant to the most desired demographic, young people.  Of the last three years only one or two of my students numbering more than 50 each semester say that Twitter is in the top 2 of their social media platforms.

 

None of my friends outside of marketers (a handful) and political wonks (even fewer) use twitter.

 

While Mel keeps saying I'm proving her point because I used Twitter to send a message, what she is failing to recognize, actually using the platform requires actively engaging on it. I used Facebook for the same reason, for many authors (too many if you ask me), the ONLY way to reach them, if you don't have their contact info, is to look them up on Facebook.

 

I don't engage on Twitter, because it does not drive traffic and no one I'm friends with uses the platform save the few exceptions I mentioned which includes Mel and Chris Burns.

 

45 Tweets and the media who feed off of them are keeping Twitter afloat for now.  Indeed it took the 12 years for twitter become profitable and this was just Q4 2017.  and there stock price is too volatile. Their ad sales are dwarfed by Facebook whose ad sales are dwarfed by Google's.  Twitter is a marginal, peripheral, player in online ad sales and largely attractive to older, less tech savvy people like 45.  Again they have a monopoly on 45's online ravings so they are over achieving right now.

 

Obviously my predictions of Twitter's demise are not a statement of fact, or certainly. It is just my opinion and some wishful thinking.

 

1 hour ago, Cynique said:

you're saying the majority of black folks didn't vote for Hillary as the lesser of 2 evils

 

No I did not say that, but it may in fact be true once you factor in the disenfranchised voters, the ones who stayed home, the ones who votes for Bernie and the 10% of Black voters who actually voted for 45.

 

1 hour ago, Cynique said:

 And you are also implying that if social media didn't exist then the Russians couldn't have influenced the election and Hillary would've won.  Pure speculation and if this conclusion is based on  the vague "documentation" you refer to,

 

Allow me to be clear, I'm not implying it, this is what I'm saying.  Vague documentation -- indeed!  @Cynique, try reading something outside your social media filter bubble.

 

2 hours ago, Mel Hopkins said:

I USED AALBC platform (social media) to link the article that I got in my personal email.  

 

AALBC Social media platform -- Bite your tongue woman!  Don't group AALBC in with Twitter and Facebook -- unless the private investors are going to give me money to lose until I become profitable. LOL!

 

There needs to be another term for what we are doing here.  Social media, for me, has become synonymous with manipulation, the creation of filter bubble, profiting off personal information, data mining, creating addiction, brokering in celebrity scandal and the like. 

 

 

 

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6 hours ago, Troy said:

There is some true to this statement.  I can say, in the south, culturally gender roles are much better defined.

This implies restrictive is better. 

Let's copy the southern way, the South has risen in the mind of Troy. 

6 hours ago, Troy said:

I've seen all sides and have been a keen observer of the internet even before is was made available to the public

Then why would you be swayed by social media in the last two years. So you didn't learn anything from 1989 - 2015. And you got perspective from Cynique. Yet you are claiming  expertise. Looking forward to your responses. 

@Troy

@Mel Hopkins

@Cynique

@NubianFellow

@Pioneer1

 

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1 hour ago, Troy said:

There needs to be another term for what we are doing here.  Social media, for me, has become synonymous with manipulation, the creation of filter bubble, profiting off personal information, data mining, creating addiction, brokering in celebrity scandal and the like. 

If there are more arguments we can call it antisocial medium. AM

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18 hours ago, Delano said:

antisocial medium

 

LOL! Man that is the only thing you've said that made sense in the last two months! 😂

 

18 hours ago, Delano said:

This implies restrictive is better. 

Let's copy the southern way, the South has risen in the mind of Troy. 

 

While it does imply some restrictions I'm not saying it is "better."  I just find in the south women, in general, have no problem adhering to the more traditional gender roles.  This is good for some people and not for others. I'm not making any value judgements. I'm just saying what it is. 

 

18 hours ago, Delano said:

Then why would you be swayed by social media in the last two years. So you didn't learn anything from 1989 - 2015. And you got perspective from Cynique. Yet you are claiming  expertise.

 

It is not a "claim." I objectively know more about the www than anyone else here -- full stop, end of story. Just accept it man. 

 

@Delano, I'm not sure why you are going back to the 80's the net was not publically available back then.  But I was actually a user of the internet I have had an email address since 1980.  I'm not ever sure why you are bringing up the 90's either social media, as we know it today, did not exist. Antisocial media did not emerge until the the past decade, so lets keep things in perspective, OK?

 

As far as Cynique giving me perspective, she did not say I was being manipulated by social media -- neither she, or I, knew it at the time.  Besides this is a phenomenon Cynique currently disputes, so she would not have arrived at that conclusion, that was my conclusion.

 

Look, when Facebook first appeared people where playing Farmville and discovering old friends, no one outside of Facebook knew that it would become human manipulation engine, hell bent on global domination that would become.  It took time before Facebook revealed itself to be the great evil that it is.  It actually took me a couple of years after arriving at this conclusion to completely delete my account. 

 

Part of the reason was the fear of missing out on something, which I know is one of the strategies Facebook uses to keep people connected.  If you ever try to delete your account you'll see the slick techniques they use to keep you from actually cutting the cord.

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