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Black Women Are Beautiful Naturally

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10 minutes ago, Mel Hopkins said:

 

@Del and Richard Murrary bring new thought to the forum... but maybe that’s because Del left the states... or simply both have elevated their thinking!

Thank you Mel. I listen and ask questions.

 

And contrary to opinion I am not a spokesman for women, men children ir aby movement past present or future. 

@Pioneer

@Troy

 

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21 minutes ago, Delano said:

Thank you Mel. I listen and ask questions.

 

You’re welcome!  

 

 Between you, Cynique, Chevdove , things are never stale! 

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If or when you can put pain to paper. You will free yourself from the past and others in the future. That's is my feeling. 

Baring your pain and shame is reliving it until it has no power over you. 

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6 hours ago, Mel Hopkins said:

This is powerful!

 

We do protect a black man’s image, don’t we? 

 

@Mel Hopkins You are so right. 

6 hours ago, Mel Hopkins said:

Many black women have normalized the horrible treatment they’ve receive at the hands of black men, they call men “soft” who treat them well. 

 

 

Again, you are so right.

 

6 hours ago, Mel Hopkins said:

But I digress.    I know some of my experiences with black men aren’t for publication either. And I can tell you, it’s those stories that haunt me; making it difficult to finish my second book. 

 

Some times, I tell myself that I’m being too sensitive or maybe I deserved it - but then I realize that is exactly how battered women rationalize their relationship experiences.  

 

 So, yes I’ve been sorely disrespected by many black men. None of it deserved. But those experiences afforded me a lot of painful life lessons too.  And now I know what it is like to experience kindness. 

 

Yet, I absolutely understand your position. 

 

Thank you, Thank you, Thank you!!!!!!!!!!

Oh Gosh! I needed this!!!!!!!

Thank you so much!!!! 

Oh Wow! 

 

4 hours ago, Troy said:

BTW I don't think that quote from Shakespeare has anything to do with the beauty of Black women. Which play is it from?  Also have to know quoting another white man, in this context, is like feed raw meat to @Pioneer1 LOL!

 

Okay, I am probably wrong, but I actually thought that Shakespeare may have had some cultural connection to being 'Black' and that was why I love that quote. I read somewhere that the other poets did not like him. They called him an Upstart CROW. And they did not like it that the queen of England liked him! And lastly, some of his writings were based of of the Bible, I think either Songs of Solomon or Psalms or something like that.

4 hours ago, Troy said:

Now I don't argue with folks about Black woman's hair any more that I do religion or politics. The beliefs one holds usually have nothing to do with reason or logic.  Once a person beliefs are based upon say, faith in a book King James commissioned, or say in a belief 45 will make the country great again.  It is time to move on.

 

Okay, @Troy Since you saw the need in mentioning a 'book' King James commisioned, it is okay if I comment in response?

 

"Beliefs one holds usually have nothing to do with reason or logic"? Well, when I compare:

 

[1] Trump's Maga platform

[2] the 'book' King James Commissioned, and

[3] your assessment in that 'usually' ones belief has nothing to do with reason or logic, then I think about this;

Trump's life is less than 100 years, your life is less then 100 years, King James life was less than 100 years, but the 'collection of books' that the king commissioned to be translated by a body of learned people, books that had been written by over 100s of people over the course of thousands of years, I guess you are right in your assessment in regards to people's beliefs usually not based on any sound reason or logic.  

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10 hours ago, Delano said:

So you think women feel heard and respected by men. 

@Troy

And how did you arrive at the position

 

@Delano every woman is different some feel heard and respected by men and others don't. This usually has more to do with the woman than the man. I say this because some women have expressed both sentiments to me.

 

9 hours ago, Mel Hopkins said:

Then this means you don’t have a clue as to what influences your own behavior.

 

Im sure i don't have 100% but i suspect i have far more knowledge as im more introspective and knowledgeable about the subject than most.

 

9 hours ago, Mel Hopkins said:

 

It’s the same education that you built on.  So, since your mother didn’t know what influenced her, your foundation is weak at best.

 

Yes as a Black reared in an urban ghetto by a single (effectively) mother, my foundation was quite weak, but i left home almost 40 years ago and am more than my 1st 18 years.

 

10 hours ago, Mel Hopkins said:

You say don’t go on social media? This is social media!

 

Technically you are correct, but i define social as the class of corporate run websites designed to extract and aggregate your personal data in an effort to extract more wealth from you directly and by selling this information to others so that you are efficiently manipulated.

 

10 hours ago, Mel Hopkins said:

I’m 100 percent conscious. i’m very deliberate in my actions.  

 

While I do explore ideas here. I do firmly believe that no one is 100% conscious. Indeed the current science telks us most of our behavior is subconscious and im not yet convinced we have any free will at all 😉

 

 

 

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Welp, @Troy your response  to Chevdove applies perfectly to your explanation to me...And I couldn’t have said it better.  

 

8 hours ago, Chevdove said:

The beliefs one holds usually have nothing to do with reason or logic. 

 

Your foundation forms your worldview.

 

Everything you’ve “learned” is synthesize through that lens.

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18 hours ago, Mel Hopkins said:

 

This is powerful!

 

We do protect a black man’s image, don’t we? 

 

I think this is why so many are having a negative reaction to the R Kelly saga... Black women have covered black men for so long - that many (mostly men but women too) are shocked that a black woman produced and directed the film that gave his alleged victims a platform. 

 

Many black women have normalized the horrible treatment they’ve receive at the hands of black men, they call men “soft” who treat them well. 

 

Go on social media and you’ll see some black men say they  are supposed to be “Future” to their “Ciara”.   Instead of being kind to their woman; as Ciara’s husband “Russell” is to her.    

 

Those are the same black men who believe Ciara will tire of how well her husband treats her and her son with Future and she’ll come crawling back to Future.   That’s how brain damaged some of young black men (and black women) are today. 

 

But I digress.    I know some of my experiences with black men aren’t for publication either. And I can tell you, it’s those stories that haunt me; making it difficult to finish my second book. 

 

Some times, I tell myself that I’m being too sensitive or maybe I deserved it - but then I realize that is exactly how battered women rationalize their relationship experiences.  

 

 So, yes I’ve been sorely disrespected by many black men. None of it deserved. But those experiences afforded me a lot of painful life lessons too.  And now I know what it is like to experience kindness. 

 

Yet, I absolutely understand your position. 

 

 

So are you saying that your experiences with Black men are too difficult for you to even talk (or type) about?

You're clearly alive, do you have any traumatic injuries or disabilities (physical) that you've received at the hands of a Black man?

Have you ever been incarcerated or PHYSICALLY held against your will for more than 24 hours by a Black man?

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4 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said:

So are you saying that your experiences with Black men are too difficult for you to even talk (or type) about?

You're clearly alive, do you have any traumatic injuries or disabilities (physical) that you've received at the hands of a Black man?

Have you ever been incarcerated or PHYSICALLY held against your will for more than 24 hours by a Black man?

 

@Pioneer1 Why do you ask? 

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22 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said:

Because THESE are heinous acts that most women find too difficult and/or  traumatic to talk about.

@Pioneer1what are you going to do file police charges on my behalf?  

 

Sign up to be my fixer? 

 

Lol! get out of here with your little list. 

 

You’re not qualified to assess what women find too difficult to talk about.  

 

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Cynique


With nothing to back you up, you have tried to make him your ally by planting the idea in his head that we aren't or wouldn't be his ally


I didn't have to "plant" anything in his mind.
I've barely said anything to him since coming into this thread.
I've simply illustrated this fact by pointing to the direct words of both YOU and MEL along with co-signing from Delano.

Not only are you 3 proudly declaring how acceptable and justified it is to support loving and praising White men over Black men, but you 3 are steadfast in it and are proving synergistic support to eachother.

 

 

 

Finally, why wouldn't we consider Nubian Fellow a "brother"?


Because he doesn't share YOUR values of contempt for Black men.
As many times as he's called you sister/sista....you haven't (to my knoweldge) returned the favor.  Which I wasn't surprised about, because I already knew....lol.
And even if you started doing so, it wouldn't matter because it would just be you covering your tracks. 

 

 

 

 

 

Chev

That is a form of White Supremacy. We as Black people can also be defined as being 'White Supremacist' and that is why I don't feel that you should charge other INDIVIDUALS and attack them for issues that you feel are White Supremacist beliefs.


I haven't "attacked" Mel.
I'm simply pointing out her background to illustrate a broader point.
Trust me, if I "attacked" someone on this site there would be NO doubt in your mind what was taking place because Troy would have to get involved, lol.

 

Further, you're corrrect......
Black people CAN be White Supremacists and although it's not completely their fault for the way they think, we still must be careful NOT to trust them or their motives when they are among us because of their ability to poision the minds of others.


A Black White Supremacist woman will go among other Black women who believe in women's rights and TURN their angry and rage from men in general to BLACK MEN in particular while at the same time slowly justify why they should submit to White male dominance and choose White male partners OVER the Black men.
They may claim "men" in general are the problem....but in reality only ONE SPECIFIC type is their focus.





Do you think that Black African Americans should not marry out of their race/culture?


It depends on WHY they are getting married to those outside of their race and it also depends on how much control and power they will assume in the relationship.

Remember, marriage in Western society isn't so much about love but also FINANCIA and SOCIAL.
If the AfroAmerican is wealthy and the non-AfroAmerican they are marrying is less than that and has very little power of influence, then they should definately sign a prenuptual agreement or probably not get married at all.




 

I don't watch TV that much but I have seen shows in which it is commonplace in how Black men obsess over non-Black women and I don't see this coming from any other race/culture! You don't see the connection to 'oppression' in this regard?


Latino men and Arab men are notorious for lusting after White women and many openly prefer blonde White women over their own, yet you don't hear Latina and Arab women condemning and dissing their own men all over television, the movies, and the internet.

And NO....
I don't consider a man who lusts after women of other races a form of "oppression" against his own woman.
It's wrong.
It's self destructive.
It's ignorant, inappropriate, and in many cases down right stupid....but not oppressive.

Let's keep things in their proper perspective and not just MAKE UP things to put on Black men to justify our criticizms.

Black men....collectively.....ARE NOT oppressing Black women today.
They are not in a position to even if they wanted to.





Black men were not protecting their people for some reason.

I agree! And it happens both ways though, sadly, IMO. It happens both ways, we, as BLack men and women demean each other in this mode and I suppose that may have been one of the reasons we were overpowered and enslaved.


I agree with BOTH of these statements.

 

  

You're right! I have been dodging! And, I do have some personal stories but, I am trying to figure out how to write them down and am wrestling with some thoughts for certain reasons


You shouldn't have to try THAT hard.
If what Black men did TO YOU was that bad you should immediately be able to recall it.
You should be able to recall it as easily as you recalled what that White principal did.

If you need help coming up with STORIES about how terrible Black men have treated you, perhaps you should buy a few from Mel...lol.

 

 

 

 

 

Del

Again, you try and call out Nubian over HIM allegedly speaking for women's concerns while not being a woman, but YOU have been guilting of doing the same thing YOURSELF with regard to the concerns of feminists!

Do you recognize the hypocrisy on your part?

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18 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said:

It depends on WHY they are getting married to those outside of their race and it also depends on how much control and power they will assume in the relationship.

What makes you qualified or by what authority can you assess what is a proper union. 

5 hours ago, Troy said:

@Delano every woman is different some feel heard and respected by men and others don't. This usually has more to do with the woman than the man.

Substitute Black for women and White for men, is your position unchanged. 

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5 minutes ago, Delano said:

What makes you qualified or by what authority can you assess what is a proper union. 

 


Lol....what makes you qualified to even be in my presence????

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48 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said:

Del

Again, you try and call out Nubian over HIM allegedly speaking for women's concerns while not being a woman, but YOU have been guilting of doing the same thing YOURSELF with regard to the concerns of feminists!

Do you recognize the hypocrisy on your part?

Despite the fact that i have repeatedly said this is not the case. The women here have also said that is not the case. The fact that I posted links expressing both sides of an issue, in the words of feminist, is lost on you. 

 

You also don't understand that Mel made a choice about one man based on her experiences with other men. You seem to miss the point, that she didn't indict all Black Men nor did she praise all White Men. Yet you are judging her heart and her choices. Then you want her to bare her sole about painful experiences. This is the height of insensitivity, arrogance and callousness.

 

Yet she states how Bkack Women defend Black Men. However this is not reciprocated in a manner that Black women feel. Yet you say in your experience Black Men defend women when they are able. 

Some of the characteristics you associate with black men are  incredibly negative. And then you give God like powers to all white people. Instead of the tiny minority at the the top who are exploiting all people. 

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21 minutes ago, Delano said:

Yiu also don't understand that Mel made a choice about one man bases on hee experiences with other men. Yiubseem to miaa the point that she didn't indict all Black Men nor dis she praise all White Men. Yet you are judging her heart and her choices. Then you want her to bare her sole about painful experiences. This is the height of insensitivity arrogance and callousness. Yet she states how Bkack Women defend Bkack Men. However this is not reciprocated ina manner that Black women feel. Yet you say in your experience Bkack Men defend women when they are able. 

 

@Delano thank you!  But let’s not use Pioneer’s avatar as an example of how black men behave. His account is not a representative of any black man I take seriously. At least none I’ve ever met in real life.  

 

I’ve said this before, and I’ll say it again - his avatar reminds me of a group of people using one account. The Pioneer1 account displays as the social media’s version of FBI’s cointelpro... or the reverse black kkk lol - 

 

I’m not phased by the Pioneer1 account - I’m tickled  by it ... reminds me of the black uncle everyone keeps their distance from and says “yea ok”.

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3 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Not only are you 3 proudly declaring how acceptable and justified it is to support loving and praising White men over Black men, but you 3 are steadfast in it and are proving synergistic support to each other.
 

This is a lie.  i never  said that i preferred white men over black ones because white ones were better. i said i can appreciate a powerful white man who is also kind, which is what we all said, but you continue to distort this because you are so consumed with envy and insecurity. i also said i could appreciate these 2 traits in black men. I married and was wed to a black man for 50 years so it's not like i have to defend myself against your ridiculous accusations. You just can't get over me defending a white guy who said he was married and who expressed his intention of trying to empathize with black women.  Seething with resentment, your silly reaction was to make snide references to his sexuality.  Just because i find you insufferable doesn't mean i reject all black men.

3 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Because he doesn't share YOUR values of contempt for Black men.
As many times as he's called you sister/sista....you haven't (to my knoweldge) returned the favor.  Which I wasn't surprised about, because I already knew....lol.
And even if you started doing so, it wouldn't matter because it would just be you covering your tracks. 

 

More lies.  As if your myopic view on this subject carries any credibility.  You rarely  assess a situation correctly.  Nubian Fellow  actually called me "queen"; so much for your "knowledge", a word you can't even spell.  I missed Nubian Fellow when he was gone, and was glad when he briefly returned, and hope he comes back again. i consider him a fine young man with whom i share many ideas, and i actually think of him as a "son" more than anything. i don't have to adhere to what you have deemed is mandatory for embracing one of my own.

 

@Pioneer1I hope you didn't miss Mel's post preceding this one.

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1 hour ago, Pioneer1 said:


Lol....what makes you qualified to even be in my presence????

No qualifications needed. Your foolishness is part and parcel of this community. 

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Del


You seem to miss the point, that she didn't indict all Black Men nor did she praise all White Men. Yet you are judging her heart and her choices. Then you want her to bare her sole about painful experiences.

MORE hypocrisy from the same one who told Mel just a day ago:
 

Quote

 

If or when you can put pain to paper. You will free yourself from the past and others in the future. That's is my feeling.

Baring your pain and shame is reliving it until it has no power over you.

 


 

I asked her to provide a few solid examples of what a Black man has ACTUALLY DONE to her as evidence to justify her disrespect and defamation of Black men collectively.
(something she has yet to do)

YOU...on the other hand...were the one begging her to '"bare her pain and shame"....probably for your entertainment.

And the fact that she wouldn't (or couldn't) provide any examples of what I've asked is VERY telling.

Could it be that NO Black man has actually treated her any worse than the White men she's been with but she just put that "abusive Black man" stereotype out there to JUSTIFY her rhetoric?




Some of the characteristics you associate with black men are incredibly negative.


As if you and your repeatedly failed predictions are helping the reputation of astrologists....lol.






Mel

 

I’ve said this before, and I’ll say it again - his avatar reminds me of a group of people using one account. The Pioneer1 account displays as the social media’s version of FBI’s cointelpro... or the reverse black kkk lol -

I’m not phased by the Pioneer1 account - I’m tickled by it ... reminds me of the black uncle everyone keeps their distance from and says "yea ok".


That was a nice but failed attempt at deflecting......

You can toss accusations about "black kkk" and "multiple accounts" all you want but I'm not the one who is low-key encouraging Black women to leave Black men and get with White men....YOU ARE.

I'm not the one claiming that the best and kindest man in the whole wide world is a White man.....YOU ARE.

I'm not the one who suggests that Black women defend Black men too much ....YOU ARE.

If Black men need defending then they must be under attack.
And if you're suggesting that Black women defend Black men too much, perhaps you feel that the attack upon Black men is justified or deserved.




Cynique


i said i can appreciate a powerful white man who is also kind, which is what we all said, but you continue to distort this because you are so consumed with envy and insecurity.
 

The only one lying (well...not the "only" one apparently) is YOU.
Because "we all" didn't say we appreciated powerful White men (kind or not).
YOU AND MEL are the ones who said this.
I don't recall if Chevdove co-signed or not so I won't put that on her, but to say "we all" said it is a straight up lie.




Nubian Fellow actually called me "queen"; ......, and i actually think of him as a "son" more than anything. i don't have to adhere to what you have deemed is mandatory for embracing one of my own.


And how did you REPAY the honor he gave you, Cynique??
Did you call HIM a "King"????
Did you call HIM a "son"????

Or did you continue to argue with him over whether or not he should be concerned about the self-esteem of the women of his community?

 

 


I hope you didn't miss Mel's post preceding this one.


NO I didn't miss it!
I'm actually reading her posts anticipating that she'll post an example of all of this pain and abuse she CLAIMS she's experienced at the hands of Black men to justify why she loves bashing THEM while at the same time praising A White man as the best and kindest man in the whole wide world.

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8 hours ago, Delano said:

Substitute Black for women and White for men, is your position unchanged

 

Nope, not on an interpersonal level in 2019.

 

Why?

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4 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

You seem to miss the point, that she didn't indict all Black Men nor did she praise all White Men. Yet you are judging her heart and her choices. Then you want her to bare her sole about painful experiences.

MORE hypocrisy from the same one who told Mel just a day ago:
 

Quote

 

If or when you can put pain to paper. You will free yourself from the past and others in the future. That's is my feeling.

Baring your pain and shame is reliving it until it has no power over you.

If and when aren't words that you use to make a declaration. Also the phrase my beliefs makes it clear it is not a demand. 

 

I think you have difficulty taking the measure of a person.

 

For someone who wants to lead you sound like a nihilist. Encouraging Mel to share her pain with a man who would laugh about Black girls be used by an old morally bankrupt leech. You prove something I believe strongly. The best leaders don't want to be leaders. And those that want to lead aren't even good followers. 

 

At times you sound as though you have more contempt for Black Women than the harshest racist. 

 

If I am praising white men because they say Black Man should listen to the Black Women. And you disagree, then I will praise that Man over you. 

 

I seriously wonder whose team you are on cause you aren't an ally to black women. At least not on this forum.

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4 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

The only one lying (well...not the "only" one apparently) is YOU.
Because "we all" didn't say we appreciated powerful White men (kind or not).
YOU AND MEL are the ones who said this.
I don't recall if Chevdove co-signed or not so I won't put that on her, but to say "we all" said it is a straight up lie.

 

4 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

And how did you REPAY the honor he gave you, Cynique??
Did you call HIM a "King"????
Did you call HIM a "son"????

Or did you continue to argue with him over whether or not he should be concerned about the self-esteem of the women of his community?

 

@Pioneer1You are really grasping at straws. It should've gone without saying that you were excluded from appreciating powerful white men who are kind because it's obvious you can't bring yourself to appreciate good character in a human being. That's how flawed your character is. And i hope you will continue to be offended by my not addressing Nubian Fellow the way you want me to.  You  don't tell me how  to react to his words or what to call him. Just like Mel doesn't owe you any further explanations  as to  however she feels about black and white men. You act like you're somebody who we women here have to answer to,  - somebody whose approval we should seek.   Puleeze. 

 I, myself, will continue to hold Nubian Fellow in high regard and believe that he is insightful enough to discern that i respect him as a strong black man who doesn't need me to "adopt him".  You keep overlooking the things outside the subject of black beauty that he and i did agree on.  I thought his observation that when it comes to white supremacy, black people aren't inferior, they just act inferior was truth in a nutshell.  That was when he made a believer out of me, and was why i was glad that he became a regular on this board - for a  while.   

 

1 hour ago, Delano said:

At times you sound as though you have more contempt for Black Women than the harshest racist... 

...I seriously wonder whose team you are on cause you aren't an ally to black women. At least not on this forum.

 

@Del i couldn't care less about pioneer being an ally of mine or that he might hold black women in contempt. Any woman he holds in contempt must be doing something right.  With allies like him, who needs enemies?   

 

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8 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

That was a nice but failed attempt at deflecting......

You can toss accusations about "black kkk" and "multiple accounts" all you want 

 

 @Pioneer1 maybe, but effective.

 

you”ve been unmasked as a hater of black women.  

 

Now it makes sense why you “say”  you never married a black woman..  you “said” you made them call you daddy , but you played them. 

 

And didn’t you “say” “no children” too? Is that a conscious decision? Is it the truth?  

 

Did you lose a child? (If so, my condolences)

 

BUT If  you can make babies, do you hate black women so much, you don’t even want to procreate with us? 

 

Wow!  So, unless it’s a health problem - you didn’t even make a contribution to our “black” family.  

 

Well dang, at least me and black man had a baby together.  

 

All that whining about “white supremacy” and it turns out “you” the  hater here.

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2 hours ago, Mel Hopkins said:

Now it makes sense why you “say”  you never married a black woman..

 

1 hour ago, Mel Hopkins said:

Now it makes sense why you “say”  you never married a black woman..

@Mel Hopkins What!? Really? 

 

1 hour ago, Mel Hopkins said:

And didn’t you “say” “no children” too? Is that a conscious decision? Is it the truth?  

 

Wait a minute--Really!? Now, this is deep, a deep insight. @Pioneer1 I do look forward to your response here. You have requested some responses from me and Mel regarding personal issues on our position of 'abusive Black men' and I responded to you that, it is difficult to make responses but I have responded in this very thread!!! However, you have made no replies, so why should I bring up another case!? That makes no sense. Please respond to my first testimony and then, we will go from there. But no, I don't have any doubt that you don't love Black women. I feel this from you, but I do agree that you have some deep issues about your past relationships and you may be superimposing your experiences onto us! 

 

Oh but for now, I feel you my brother and really appriciate you deep insights. 

 

@Delano Thank for you insight too! OMG! 

 

16 hours ago, Delano said:

You also don't understand that Mel made a choice about one man based on her experiences with other men. You seem to miss the point, that she didn't indict all Black Men nor did she praise all White Men. Yet you are judging her heart and her choices. Then you want her to bare her sole about painful experiences. This is the height of insensitivity, arrogance and callousness.

16 hours ago, Delano said:

 

 

16 hours ago, Delano said:

Yet she states how Bkack Women defend Black Men. However this is not reciprocated in a manner that Black women feel. Yet you say in your experience Black Men defend women when they are able. 

 

@Delano So true.

 

20 hours ago, Mel Hopkins said:

Welp, @Troy your response  to Chevdove applies perfectly to your explanation to me...And I couldn’t have said it better.  

 

@Mel Hopkins Oh no. @Troy Did not reply to me at all. He made a blanket statement about 'King James" and I responded and he completely ignored me, brushed me off. 

 

18 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

So are you saying that your experiences with Black men are too difficult for you to even talk (or type) about?

 

@Pioneer1 I did read what Delano wrote, encouraging her to share her stories, but you miss the fact that he did not push the issue. I understand too though what you are saying, in that, we owe you, as a Black man, some kind of explanation, and I do agree. But, I have offered a testimony and you have brushed it off!!!--completely!!! 

 

It is so amazing how, some Black men pretend to be so 'together' and 'respectful' to Black women... LOL... 

17 hours ago, Mel Hopkins said:

You’re not qualified to assess what women find too difficult to talk about.  

 

This is the problem!!! 

 

18 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Because THESE are heinous acts that most women find too difficult and/or  traumatic to talk about.

 

@Pioneer1 Please tell me that you are joking!!! You have completely ignored the mental and emotional abuse and etc that causes much deeper wounds than physical. Come on!!! Tell me that you didn't mean that! 

17 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

I haven't "attacked" Mel.

 

Yes you did.

17 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

I'm simply pointing out her background to illustrate a broader point.

 

And here lies the deep truth. You are trying to use one Black woman's offered experience to fit in your personal life's experiences that has caused you to be prejudice against the sum of Black women.

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17 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

A Black White Supremacist woman will go among other Black women who believe in women's rights and TURN their angry and rage from men in general to BLACK MEN in particular while at the same time slowly justify why they should submit to White male dominance and choose White male partners OVER the Black men.
They may claim "men" in general are the problem....but in reality only ONE SPECIFIC type is their focus.

 

@Pioneer1 I absolutely agree with you!!! Here, by brother, you are talking truth!!! the term 'BLACK-WHITE' woman is truth!!! and vice versa too. There are a lot of BLACK-WHITE men in the African American culture that use their traits to deceive us and put out the White Supremacist format. THANK YOU PIONEER!!! OMG! 

 

But again, you are attacking Mel as if she is this profile and I tell you that, in this, you are wrong and you are being disrespectful.

17 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Latino men and Arab men are notorious for lusting after White women and many openly prefer blonde White women over their own, yet you don't hear Latina and Arab women condemning and dissing their own men all over television, the movies, and the internet.

 

Yes, and don't leave out African men from that continent too. They also obssess over White women. But no, Pioneer, here, you are missing the major point. The Latina and ARab women don't comdemn their men, in that I do agree, but it is because they too, have a problem with their identity. They believe that they are White and define themselves as being 'White' on applications! But when it comes to Black women in Africa and here, we are most damaged by Black AFrican men who obsess over White women. In this you are so wrong. We have been enslaved due to the global effort to divide and conquer the Black man and woman... this is the very process and this is why when Black men do this, it is most oppressive. 

17 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

You shouldn't have to try THAT hard.
If what Black men did TO YOU was that bad you should immediately be able to recall it.
You should be able to recall it as easily as you recalled what that White principal did.

If you need help coming up with STORIES about how terrible Black men have treated you, perhaps you should buy a few from Mel...lol.

 

Go back and read what @Del wrote. I have no problem recalling!!! I do agree that you deserve a testimony from me and Black women on this score, and again, I have offered one and you completely brushed me off!!!--- as if you don't agree. smh.

 

You are clearly showing the very process in how Black women have been completely oppressed by Black men!!! LOL! Come on Pioneer; wake up!

 

17 hours ago, Delano said:

Yet you are judging her heart and her choices. Then you want her to bare her sole about painful experiences. This is the height of insensitivity, arrogance and callousness.

 

Please read this statement @Pioneer1

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Del

I seriously wonder whose team you are on


When it comes to disagreements on this site, no one has to "wonder" whose team YOU'RE on and will ALWAYS be on.....lol.
 

 

 

 

Mel

you"ve been unmasked as a hater of black women.

All that whining about "white supremacy" and it turns out "you" the hater here.


LOL  :rolleyes:

((shakes head))

Anyway......

So in other words, you won't tell us SOME of the terribly things you've alleged Black men did to you to justify your resentment towards them.  I imagine you're not doing this for either one of two reasons:

1. NOTHING happened to you at the hands of a Black man and you are just using this "woe is me" crap as an excuse to justify your love for White men and contempt for Black men.

or

2. Yes you did go through some issues with Black men but as bad as they were you know they were no worse than what White women have gone through with White men in their relationships; thus it doesn't justify your anti-Black man nonsense.


Either way, you've been given multiple opportunities to justify your resentment and contempt for Black men and why you felt that that particular White man was so much better....but you failed to provide them.
As far as I'm concerned any story of mistreatment at the hands of Black men you come up with after this will not be trusted.

 

 

 

 

 


Chev

It's about TIME you responded.
I was waiting on YOU to respond to my post and all of these little "gremlins" popped up making a lot of noise...lol.
But to answer your questions in detail:

No I haven't been married to a woman of ANY race.
Engaged twice...to Black women both times....but not married.
So don't let Mel trick you by throwing that "to a Black woman" part in there, lol.
And no, no children either.
For two reasons:

1. I've been called ugly on more than one occasion so that cuts down on the amount of women who would want to marry and reproduce with me......lol.

2. I've been in the lower income bracket for much of my life and and still am.
After witnessing what happened to one of my brothers, some of my cousins, and many other poor Black men in my community who had children by "accident" without being financially secure and mature enough to support them...I made the decision early in life to NOT have children until I was both married and financially stable.  Although some have been disappointed, EVERY woman I've ever been involved with has respected my decision.

But ofcourse people are free to make their own decisions as to when to get married have have children; however the years and years of community organization and social work I've done has shown me that over 60% of the problems Black people in America have can be DIRECTLY attributed to having children by "accident".....instead of properly planning for them. Having children they weren't psychologically mature enough or financially stable enough to take care of and those children grow up angry and with hate because they KNOW they weren't wanted and weren't treated properly growing up.  I said I wasn't going to contribute to that.

 

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23 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said:

I've been in the lower income bracket for much of my life and and still am.

 

WOW Thank you for your honesty! @Pioneer1 You are speaking truth, here. This is sad, but true when it comes to many African American men in this government. 

24 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said:

many other poor Black men in my community who had children by "accident" without being financially secure and mature enough to support them...I made the decision early in life to NOT have children until I was both married and financially stable.

 

Again, WOW. I can understand on a personal basis too, especially about the 'black man not being financially secure'!!! And as far as you choosing not to do this or have children for this reason, I understand completely. I also understand why you would not want to do this 'by accident' and put out Black Children and suffer watching them suffer and also... blame you!!!--and NOT be able to recognize the part of this government!!! I can relate to this on a personal note!!! And this is why, even though, I understand your stance, if all Black men chose to do what you did, we would never win as a people though. So, I also don't blame others who do still marry Black women and have children and take on this HARD PLIGHT! My husband is getting is butt kicked--LOL! But I am so glad that he had 'an accident' with me!!! LOL! And, then he chose to marry me before the birth of my son!

 

But, @Pioneer1 with your other beliefs on relationships, it's amazing that you did NOT have an accident--LOL. 

31 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said:

however the years and years of community organization and social work I've done has shown me that over 60% of the problems Black people in America have can be DIRECTLY attributed to having children by "accident".....instead of properly planning for them. 

 

@Pioneer1 Yes, I can understand this too, but as a whole, when is there ever the right time? This government is bent on keeping us as Second class citizens. 

32 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said:

I've been called ugly on more than one occasion so that cuts down on the amount of women who would want to marry and reproduce with me......lol.

 

Okay, again @Pioneer1 Thank you for your honesty!!! But then, here is what I have to say about your response. Some men and women don't form a healthy spirit, a spirit that caused them to form a positive perspective and viewpoint about themselves--as they should fit in a physical world and go from this point to seek out a relationship with a person that fits their human presence. So, if you, as a man wanted to be married to the right kind of woman, then perhaps, you would have done that, but if you hook up with Black women that are shallow and who provide you an easy excuse to keep finding faults in our character, then you may be wasting you time. You know about Denzel Washington, right. That was what he said. He said that he was passed over when he was young and called ugly but, when he became older and confident, it became the opposite. And, that is what I have noticed with my sons. Just like Denzel said, regarding Black African American men. My sons were just 'invisible' by Black girls when they were young but, they built up a lot of confidence THAT CAME FROM ME! And so, by the time they reached high school, well, things changed dramatically!

 

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29 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said:

  I imagine you're not doing this for either one of two reasons:

 

And their lies your problem @Pioneer1 you let your imagination do your thinking and you create nothing of value.  

 

I never wrote  I resented black men -you wrote that I did. 

 

Why do you want to know about my experiences with black men or any man?

 

You wouldn’t understand it anyway. 

 

Heck, you don’t even have the guts to put your skin in the game.

 

 It takes courage to be vulnerable to another person.. to allow them to get close enough to even be hurt by them.  It takes even more courage and heart to bring children in a world that’s brutal... It’s even more difficult to raise them up to be productive healthy and happy - even if they were an “accident”... yet I did just that. 

 

No, Pioneer you don’t get to live vicariously through my “stories”...

 

You don’t get to know what black men did in my relationships with them. Here’s all you need to know about them -  They are/ were brave enough to engage.   

 

Smh

 

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Mel

They are/ were brave enough to engage.
 

Either that or crazy enough not to know any better and got involved with you anyway.....lol.

 

 

 

 

Chev

This belief that you should go ahead and have children anyway because "God will make a way for them and see them through some how some way " is very pervasive though out our community. I've heard it from countless women when they were young . Unfortunately years later many of these children end up being abused, in and out of foster homes, in and out of jail, terrorize many of their communities, and even end up dead.

Further, I put QUALITY over QUANTITY.

I would rather see AfroAmericans at only 3 million but healthy (mentally as well as physically), well educated, happy, and prosperous.....than at 100 million broke, angry, criminal, confused, and otherwise dysfuctional.

 

 

One of the problems is the family structure in general.  The nuclear family for the most part doesn't work for our people.
In the ancient world the ENTIRE COMMUNITY used to help raise their children, now a days most parents (often single) are on their own to raise their children as best they can.
This is why I say in the future the nuclear family will be pushed to the side and group families where multiple men and women will raise children as a mini-village type will eventually become the norm.

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@Chevdove man! I hope you had/have a vocation in government and public affairs - because you are beautiful and have a beautiful way about you too! A lot of wars would not have been started if you were at Camp David! 😊

 

Also @Delano  dang! 

Choosing based on past experiences is actually the antithesis of creation... 

 

Damn... maybe we’ve been doing this life thing all wrong. 

 

Thank you Delano and thank you @Chevdove for quoting!!

3 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said:

Either that or crazy enough not to know any better and got involved with you anyway.....lol.

 

Welp, “No lies detected here”.  

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2 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

When it comes to disagreements on this site, no one has to "wonder" whose team YOU'RE on and will ALWAYS be on.....lol.

I advicate listening respectfully. You have shown we aren't on the same team. I am starting to wonder whether you're a poc. Person of conscience 

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9 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

This belief that you should go ahead and have children anyway because "God will make a way for them and see them through some how some way " is very pervasive though out our community.

 

@Pioneer1 Yes, I can understand why you say this and believe that, in general, many people of all races engage in sex relationships for sex gratification and the 'accidents' that occur are excused away for many 'false justifications', however, if many Black people choose not to have children, that will not solve the problem for us as a people in this world. 

 

To say that "God will make a way for them and see them through some how some way" may be what you think about, but that should not be the focus, imo. The focus should be based on nature and the fact that 'reproduction' is a human right, and therefore, Black people should not feel that they should not reproduce only because of financial reasons. We are human, we need to eat in order to live, so therefore, if some Black people see the importance to fight for the right to eat and work and live comfortably then to also fight while they have relationships and reproduce should be a part of the process. But again, if you, as an individual, have chosen to wait for financial reasons and for other responsible reasons, I think that is great.    

Hopefully, you will be a supportive uncle to your brothers children and others. 

9 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

In the ancient world the ENTIRE COMMUNITY used to help raise their children

 

Yeah, but obviously, that didn't go to well.

9 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

This is why I say in the future the nuclear family will be pushed to the side and group families where multiple men and women will raise children as a mini-village type will eventually become the norm.

 

I seriously doubt this because, it didn't work in the past. 

9 hours ago, Mel Hopkins said:

 man! I hope you had/have a vocation in government and public affairs - because you are beautiful and have a beautiful way about you too! A lot of wars would not have been started if you were at Camp David! 😊

 

@Mel Hopkins Thank you so much! You too, are beautiful! 

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Chev

Well again, I prefer QUALITY over QUANTITY.

You may believe simply reproducing and making more Black people to fill up this planet will be the key to our success, however if those Black people aren't raised properly with the proper frame of mind....the only thing they'll do is just bring more death and destruction not only to the Black race but to the planet.

The Native Americans were far superior to Caucasians in sheer numbers, but how well did they stand up against a cunning and better organized force who came with an AGENDA and a determination to carry it out?

When I look at not only the AfroAmerican community in the United States but also the Black communities on the continent of Africa, I see certain similarities of poor Black people who can barely take care of themselves having many children hoping "some" of them turn out ok but for the most part not carefully planning and designing their families.

Although China is far from the model or ideal nation, I believe the Chinese had the right idea to limit their births to only one per family UNTIL they were able to properly organize their nation and take care of everyone. Before they started it they were suffering from SEVERE famine and poverty problems.
I've heard they lifted that 1 child limit now that their nation is doing better economically.
Perhaps some African nations and the AfroAmerican community should take notes.....but that's just my personal opinion.





 



Cynique

 

 

It should've gone without saying that you were excluded from appreciating powerful white men who are kind because it's obvious you can't bring yourself to appreciate good character in a human being.


I don't remember Troy, Nubian, or even Delano co-signing on to loving and appreciating "powerful White men who are kind" either....lol.
Stop lying and claiming "everyone" supports this when it's only YOU TWO (you and Mel) who are sitting up hear extolling the virtues of powerful White masculinity.

In another thread you said:

 

Quote

 

I have never been someone who ran behind white folks and sucked up to them, and as an individual, my personal policy has always been to treat them whatever way they treated me, which, as it turned out, has always been with civility.
 

https://aalbc.com/tc/topic/5763-african-and-native-american-hair-type-the-comb-test/

 


Now that statement from you explains a lot.......

Given your mild, civil, and somewhat pleasant  experiences with them, I'm not suprised as to why YOU could  appreciate a "strong powerful White man who is kind" .
You obviously don't have the same concerns, angst, and apprehensiveness towards Caucasian authority that many Black men have because you haven't gone through what Black men have gone through with them.

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4 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Although China is far from the model or ideal nation, I believe the Chinese had the right idea to limit their births to only one per family 

China is a great example of social engineering that has gone wrong. It was officially ended in 2016. 

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9 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

It should've gone without saying that you were excluded from appreciating powerful white men who are kind because it's obvious you can't bring yourself to appreciate good character in a human being.


I don't remember Troy, Nubian, or even Delano co-signing on to loving and appreciating "powerful White men who are kind" either....lol.
Stop lying and claiming "everyone" supports this when it's only YOU TWO (you and Mel) who are sitting up hear extolling the virtues of powerful White masculinity.

You don't remember me saying anything about "loving" powerful kind white men either because i didn't include the word "loving"; that's your sneaky insertion.   And i don't think any of the people who you claimed didn't endorse what you said i  said, would have a problem with appreciating a human being whose power didn't prevent him from being kind,  which is what i actually said. 

 

I have never been someone who ran behind white folks and sucked up to them, and as an individual, my personal policy has always been to treat them whatever way they treated me, which, as it turned out, has always beenwith civility. 
 

https://aalbc.com/tc/topic/5763-african-and-native-american-hair-type-the-comb-test/

 


Now that statement from you explains a lot.......

Given your mild, civil, and somewhat pleasant  experiences with them, I'm not suprised as to why YOU could  appreciate a "strong powerful White man who is kind" .
You obviously don't have the same concerns, angst, and apprehensiveness towards Caucasian authority that many Black men have because you haven't gone through what Black men have gone through with them.

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

@Pioneer1  i also noted that i may be more typical than some of you think, which is why black unity tends to be elusive.  Not every black man has been beaten down by whites and black women.  Such victimization has been played up by the media and by black organizations with agendas. Millions of law abiding, gainfully employed black men who are married to black women and lucky enough to not have been caught driving while black have been able to fly under the radar and don't fit your description.  You choose to ignore those slick, smart black men who have been able to successfully navigate their way through a racist society because they are above average, something you don't give them credit for because you apparently can't identify with them.     

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23 hours ago, Delano said:

China is a great example of social engineering that has gone wrong. It was officially ended in 2016. 


Show me an African, Caribbean or otherwise majority Black nation that is doing BETTER than the "socially-engineered dysfunctional China" and I'll consider THEIR family planning and reproductive practices in comparison.

 



Cynique

You can save all that 'splainin  for someone dumb enough to believe it, lol.

Like many women who grow up in this society, you clearly like powerful White men and admire them and you're seeking to justify it.
The "kindness" part is just the icing on the cake or the cherry on top of the sundae.

And when you say "kind" what you really mean is kind to YOU.
You don't give a damn how they treat other Black people and especially Black men with their power.

Just keep in mind that some of those "lucky" Black men and women you speak are victimized BY those same powerful White men whom you appreciate.

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On 3/18/2019 at 10:24 AM, Pioneer1 said:

Like many women who grow up in this society, you clearly like powerful White men and admire them and you're seeking to justify it.
The "kindness" part is just the icing on the cake or the cherry on top of the sundae.

And when you say "kind" what you really mean is kind to YOU.
You don't give a damn how they treat other Black people and especially Black men with their power.

Just keep in mind that some of those "lucky" Black men and women you speak are victimized BY those same powerful White men whom you appreciate.

@Pioneer1 Again, you don't know what the hell you're talking about. Don't try and tell me what my feelings are about white or black men. You have neither the insight nor the knowledge to deconstruct my sentiments.  You fancy yourself some kind of a guru but as Mel so aptly implied, you are a captive of your imagination, and one of things you imagine is that you know far more than you actually do.  

 

White men have never played a significant role in my personal life. And i've rarely interacted with them outside the work place, where my relationship with them was casual.  it's not like i was daily rubbing shoulders with powerful, kind, white men who were bedazzling me.  You can't seem  to get past what you, yourself, believe, and that's that all white men are so powerful that all black women are in awe of them.  Not so.  There are just as many ordinary white men as there are black ones. Something you can't keep in mind because your brain is like a sieve.   When i worked at the post office, the black Superintendent of Mails, judiciously exerted his power over the white letter carriers.  He was a smart, dynamic fine black man of whom there are many.  i've met a few of them in my day and appreciated them to no end. There's nothing more appealing to me, than a brilliant black man - even if he isn't powerful.  And he doesn't even have to be kind, as long as he's not cruel.  So go somewhere and sit your pitiful ass down. You're full of BS and can't see past your nose.   

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On 3/19/2019 at 2:24 AM, Pioneer1 said:

Show me an African, Caribbean or otherwise majority Black nation that is doing BETTER than the "socially-engineered dysfunctional China" and I'll consider THEIR family planning and reproductive practices in comparison.

 

Clearly you haven't updated a faulty position. 

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On 3/16/2019 at 2:36 AM, Mel Hopkins said:

Also @Delano  dang! 

Choosing based on past experiences is actually the antithesis of creation

Great quote but i don't remember saying it. What was the context. 

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On 3/14/2019 at 3:50 PM, Delano said:

You also don't understand that Mel made a choice about one man based on her experiences with other men. You seem to miss the point, that she didn't indict all Black Men nor did she praise all White Men. Yet you are judging her heart and her choices.


@Delano , the action is highlighted in your quote above.  I read it the first time but it resonated when @Chevdove quoted as further insight.   

When I "created" a man perfect for me - it was so I wouldn't have the unpleasant experiences of my previous relationships. 

BUT that's not choosing,at all.  That's NOT Kuumba (divine creation)"  that's freakin' commentary!!!  

Creation would be envisage  a desired marriage based on nothing in existence...  When I reread your quote, it clarified a lot of things for me.  It reminds me of that other quote attributed to Einstein "We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."

Thank you!  
 

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