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NubianFellow

Black Women Are Beautiful Naturally

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4 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

As far as Ali and the Nation of Islam.....
As I told Cynique.....I don't defend organized religions but I do look at RESULTS.
If a particular organization or institution produces POSITIVE RESULTS then I'm going to support those results.
Say what you want to about misogyny and anachronism but the FACTS are when those women stood up and when you look at most of the MGT in the Nation of Islam....the RESULTS are undeniable.
The vast majority of them tend to be beautiful, nice, gentle, and respectful......and get plenty of respect from the men not only in their mosques but from the Black communit in general and even around the world.
Women in the Nation of Islam are NOT treated like other AfroAmerican women even by non-Muslim Black men. I know a lot of men who won't even cuss or smoke around them.

 i have yet to hear what you don't agree with about the Nation of Islam! You swear by everything Elijah Muhammad and Farrakhan say.  The obvious question raised by your  "facts" is why don't you have the courage of your convictions and marry a Muslim woman or 2 or 3 of them instead of laying up with airheads who call you "Daddy"?  How can you like the results of the Nation of Islam lifestyle and not live their lifestyle? Your inconsistencies taint your credibility.  Your whole vibe is one of telling others to do as you say do, not as you do. A role model you are not.  

3 hours ago, Mel Hopkins said:

I always gravitated towards beautiful energy - I don’t care what skin or genes it’s wrapped in.  

 

1 hour ago, Delano said:

That's how I feel as well. Racism has damaged Black people by diminishing the self worth. It has also damaged White people by giving them an over inflated sense of self importance. Black people and White people live in different worlds. 

When it comes to the appeal of white men, "power is a great aphrodisiac".  Intelligence is sexy.  What's even more appealing is a powerful white man who is secure enough to be a kind person. if this type is appreciative of a black woman, this erases a multitude of sins. At some point, bitching about racism gets old.

 

4 hours ago, Mel Hopkins said:

My point is there are two americas for black people. Sandra Bland lived in one of the wealthiest neighborhoods in America.  When she left to move Texas - I believe she forgot we black women of privilege don’t get to carry it with us.  We have to feel the temperament and tone  of the environment before we speak.  

How true!

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18 minutes ago, Delano said:

Racism has damaged Black people by diminishing the self worth

@Delano 

 

And Religion

 

- I refused to allow my daughters to go black baptist or evangelical churches.  

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Guest Loren Carle

This topic hurts my heart. I am a white man, and so feel that very little I have to say in the matter will be helpful. However, here goes.

 

My personal response over the few decades of my adult life has been a decision to have my natural facial hair, and a relaxed attitude to my head hair. I don't spend any money on shaving stuff, and ask my wife to cut my beard the way she likes best once in a while. I keep my head hair in some kind of reasonable state of tidiness, without thinking too much about it. I used to have it long and in a braid, hoping for solidarity with Native American men. I'm not sure anymore that the effect of a long, thin blonde braid on a white man with a red beard was the desired one. I recognise that I probably experience a lot of privilege in making these decisions, but I hope it's one way that I can reject the privilege afforded to shaven, short-haired white men.

 

The difficulty seems to lie in black women being forced to choose their battles. Do their employers or co-workers comment on their self-presentation in ways that give them fear for their income that supports their children? This is what should not be!

 

I would like to hear from black women about this topic. If we men, of any origin, presume to tell any women how they should appear, it's just the same old sad story of men presuming to dictate how women should present themselves, expressing the same old sick power dynamic. We gotta just stop, guys, and love the women and men we love by honouring their dignity with acceptance, support, and appreciation of their own personal aesthetic—wait for it—choices.

 

What we can do is examine work on our own attitudes honestly and privately, without looking for kudos (or to get laid) for being woke: nobody owes us anything. We need then to notice how those attitudes are reflected in whom we find attractive, and whether and how we express that attraction.

 

peace

 

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2 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Now let's look at your wording...........

 

@Pioneer1 

No, let's not look at the wording.

It's like, you are attacking! 

IMO, you are missing the point here, @Mel Hopkins was married. This man married her and acknowledge her life, and this means that not only did she choose him, but he chose her!

How beautiful.

 

 

2 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

In your mind the bar or standard has been raised to the level of this White man so by default no Black man can compare.

 

 

That was her husband!!! The two of them deserve an opportunity to work this out without being attacked for issues that ALL OF US--THE WHOLE WORLD HAS TO DEAL WITH.

Pioneer, it's like you are reading into this too much. Get Off Mel!!!

 

When a past debate came up about 'a particular non-Black young woman' Ms. Ariande Grande, I don't remember you attacking her--IN THE WAY THAT SHE DRESSED-- Umh...

Did you give her a pass, even though she showed up in a predominantly Black funeral affair dressed like she was going to a bar? 

 

But you think that we, Black women should receive scrutiny from Black men who feel they have the 'masculinity' and right to 'check' Black women for wearing spandex, and blonde hiar and such.

 

 

1 hour ago, Pioneer1 said:

Too oftern AfroAmericans project or super-impose their PERSONAL situations and experiences onto society at large.

 

@Pioneer1 Isn't that what you are doing?

It is as if you are trying to make Mel's statement the blueprint for what you believe others have done. 

I feel your assessment is mis-directed.

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@Chevdove  Oh Yes!  To all of what you’ve written!  💕 🙌🏽   

 

1 hour ago, Cynique said:

When it comes to the appeal of white men, "power is a great aphrodisiac".  Intelligence is sexy.  What's even more appealing is a powerful white man who is secure enough to be a kind person. if this type is appreciative of a black woman, this erases a multitude of sins. At some point, bitching about racism gets old.

 

@Cynique Yes!!!  Confidence!!

 

You always express what I can’t find the words for because they are wrapped in my emotions. 

 

It’s so funny how a person can subconsciously desire all these things  but not know how to express it -

 

Yes, Yes, Yes!

 

I never sought a “white” man... I thought these attributes & characteristics existed in the black men I dated and held  in high esteem.  That is until they revealed themselves.  

 

I wonder how many black women, have denied themselves wonderful experiences and a life partner because they are waiting for these traits to appear in a black man.  I wonder if they too feared losing an opportunity to comment on the pathologies in the black community because their non-black partner? 

 

Confidence does allow one to be kind to others.  

 

I remember my former husband saying he didn’t look in the mirror too long  -because it invoked a false sense of security.  I never understood what he meant by that until now.  

 

Damn. 

 

Edited by Mel Hopkins
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@Pioneer1 you know I've defended the NOI on many occassions, because they have given structure and meaning to many people the formerly incarcerate for example. There would be no Malcom X without the Nation.

 

However, i dont think most people need the NOI and their restrictions. Ali sounded like a throwback because he reflected the Nation's teachings. But that makes Ali no different than many Christians who call homosexuals an abomination and believe the world is 6K years old.

 

As far as Mel's ability to speak on the subject, I see it this way:  She is not as racist as you (and I). Intellectually i know there is only one race. However I could not marry a white woman, i would not want to deal with all the famillial and cultural stress that come with that kind if relationship. Plus I'm not particularly attracted to white women; that is probably because I'm still a little racist, but that is a function of being raised in a segregated community in white racist America.

 

In that regard, @Mel Hopkins and @Delanomore evolved that we are.

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Beleiefs are a function of experience, and expectations. I didn't like white people for the longest because I was bullied. In my 30's I met a lot of white European artists and people that were artsy farsty. And most of my friends were illegal. And even though i wasn't any artist I was accepted. 

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Mel

 

CONTEXT is your friend, Black man! When I was creating my "THE BEST MAN"- he ain’t had no color!!! Just good character!

I'm not illiterate, I can read and comprehend as well.
You asked for the BEST MAN and you were sent a WHITE MAN.
Therefore to you: best man = a White man.

What did I get wrong?

 

 

 

And Religion
- I refused to allow my daughters to go black baptist or evangelical churches.


As long as you praised a White man as being the BEST man and the KINDEST man and held him high above all other men infront of your children....you already exposed them to religion.
The religion of White Supremacy.
.....one of the most powerful religions on the planet.




I wonder how many black women, have denied themselves wonderful experiences and a life partner because they are waiting for these traits to appear in a black man.

I'm sure during slavery very few of them did; because they didn't have much of a choice and these "wonderful experiences" were FORCED upon them.

 

 



Chev

No, let's not look at the wording.

It's like, you are attacking!

IMO, you are missing the point here, @Mel Hopkins was married. This man married her and acknowledge her life, and this means that not only did she choose him, but he chose her!

How beautiful.

About as beautiful as Sally Hemmings being taken advantage of by Jefferson.

I'm not attacking Mel...but I AM finger pointing.
I'm pointing out the fact that her criticizms of Black men can't be trusted because of her previous relationship as well as the very words she's spoken in this thread.

She sees Black men as "less than" the ideal man...which is a White man, by her own admission.

 

 

 

That was her husband!!! The two of them deserve an opportunity to work this out without being attacked for issues that ALL OF US--THE WHOLE WORLD HAS TO DEAL WITH. 

Work "what" out?
She's not confused, and neither am I.
She knows exactly how she feels and why she feels this way and she's articulated it clearly.

First you defend Black men who are gay, then you defend Black women who call White men better than Black men.
Do you not see how both of these groups are counter-productive to the progress of Black society because their positions mean the destruction of the Black family?


 


But you think that we, Black women should receive scrutiny from Black men who feel they have the 'masculinity' and right to 'check' Black women for wearing spandex, and blonde hiar and such.

Spandex is not a problem....blonde hair is.
 

 

 

@Pioneer1 Isn't that what you are doing?

It is as if you are trying to make Mel's statement the blueprint for what you believe others have done.

To answer your first question..NO.  I'm actually taking Mel at her word and judging her by her own statements.
She SAID a White man is the best man, why are you ignoring this or defending it?

To answer your second question...YES.  I've heard some of her statements echoed by other Black women who have attempted to justify their love for White men and hatred for Black men which is why I said those who make statements like this can't be trusted.
I'm not saying this about Mel, but many of these women actually DO hate Black men so much they would join the KKK and help White men harm Black men if given the opportunity.  They just make up excuses to justify it.
They'll complain about how Black men treated them but ignore how a White men treated them 10 times worse.

 

 

 


Del

I believe Mel said that both implicitly and explicitly. That he was the best Man for her

Lol.....
Man, you have a hard time articulating and expressing YOUR OWN thoughts, now how in the world are you going to speak for Mel and what she meant?

 

 

 

 

Cynique

 

When it comes to the appeal of white men, "power is a great aphrodisiac". Intelligence is sexy. What's even more appealing is a powerful white man who is secure enough to be a kind person. if this type is appreciative of a black woman, this erases a multitude of sins

In other words, in your opinon White men are powerful and that makes them sexy.
You're not denying the love and attraction toward White men....you're just attempting to JUSTIFY it.

So as far as you're concerned all a Black woman needs to do is find one "kind enough" and "appreciative enough" for her to give herself to.....lol.



 




Troy

However, i dont think most people need the NOI and their restrictions.

I'm not sure if some or most need the NOI's restrictiveness but judging by the way so many of our people are homeless, hooked on drugs and alcohol, in prison, and living a life of crime and begging....many of them could use the strict rules of the Nation of Islam to help them improve their lives. Others don't need them.

It's about what works for the individual.

You act as if strict rules are the worse thing a person can go through.

Little children HATE the rules their parents place on them because they aren't wise enough to know how important they are.
Sometimes our people act like little children who don't want to be told what to do....but then can't figure out why they run into so much trouble when they do what they " feels like doin' ".

 

 

 

In that regard, @Mel Hopkins and @Delanomore evolved that we are.

They're not "evolved", because that means transitioning to a higher state of being.
They are just unabashed about their love for Caucasians.....which makes them no worse and certainly no better.

I don't have a problem with people finding Caucasians attractive or even having sex with them, it's FALLING IN LOVE with them and calling them THE BEST and KINDEST that I take issue with because it makes them vulnerable to being used against our people.
There have been many White people who've helped me out in many things...but I'm not going to call them or even one of them "the best" simply because I liked them or they helped me.

Look at Kanye West's behavior as a great example of what happens when a Black person allows themselves to "fall inlove" or be so emotionally taken by a White person that they lose control of themselves.


 

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4 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

n other words, in your opinon White men are powerful and that makes them sexy.
You're not denying the love and attraction toward White men....you're just attempting to JUSTIFY it.

So as far as you're concerned all a Black woman needs to do is find one "kind enough" and "appreciative enough" for her to give herself to.....lol.

"Other words", being your words which automatically voids their substance.  Not all white men are powerful or intelligent or kind, obviously. (That's your subconscious concession to white supremacy)  If I find those 3 traits in a kind, secure white man who treats me with consideration and respect, then he's easy to find appealing.  And i certainly don't have to justify what would attract me to a white man. It's my prerogative  to prefer one over a black man like you.  Fortunately, there are other black men around who are not like you who, themselves, are secure, powerful, intelligent, and kind.

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Pioneer there's a difference between specifity and generalities. 

 

I'll make this very understandable. 

Mel said man, you say men. Are white people better than black people not in my personal experience. You clearly have a different experience. You are conflating colour, wealth and Class. 

In the day time I worked in financial services  met and saw the heavy weights in the field. Saw Michael Milken on the elevator at Drexel Burnham, said hi to Reggie Lewis who was on his way to meet Michael Milken, was at a meet and greet with Max Chapman, and spoke with Ken Chenault, meet presidential candidate Michael Dukakis. Had a personal chat with Peter Lord about astrology. He is in the Family Stand and he wrote Touch for Paula Abdul. I hung with artists musicians and night people. 

 

I have experienced different circles. And like i said earlier it doesn't make me more evolved. It just means my perspective is broader. 

You clearly have a different temperament, experience and perspective. Its pointless for me to argue with Anyone who takes their world to be the entire world. 

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6 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

I'm not illiterate, I can read and comprehend as well.
You asked for the BEST MAN and you were sent a WHITE MAN.
Therefore to you: best man = a White man.

What did I get wrong?

 

You’re wrong for assuming the best man is a white man for everyone.  A white man wasn’t the best man for my mom. 

 

But  since you believe the white man is the best man - I’m going to step out of the argument you seem to be having with yourself. 

 

7 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

As long as you praised a White man as being the BEST man and the KINDEST man and held him high above all other men infront of your children....you already exposed them to religion.
The religion of White Supremacy.

 

Well, since 2/3 of my daughters are biologically his daughters... Believing their dad is supreme is awesome. I know I think my dad is/was the greatest.

 

 Don’t you think your dad is supreme too?  

 

Wow- just wow. 🙄

 

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19 hours ago, Troy said:

As far as Mel's ability to speak on the subject, I see it this way:  She is not as racist as you (and I). Intellectually i know there is only one race. However I could not marry a white woman, i would not want to deal with all the famillial and cultural stress that come with that kind if relationship. Plus I'm not particularly attracted to white women; that is probably because I'm still a little racist, but that is a function of being raised in a segregated community in white racist America.

 

In that regard, @Mel Hopkins and @Delanomore evolved that we are.

 

Maybe not evolved. More like throwbacks to egalitarian age.  

 

 It’s racism that has evolved along with patriarchy.  The two go hand and hand.  

 

So like you’ve written, I see us in shades of humanity.  Probably because I’ve rejected patriarchy, and its religious handbooks. Also I began school in Germany lived on and off a army base that was a lot like the UN. Couple that with lots of travel plus parents who raised me to believe  there’s only one race...and you get me, a humanist.

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Cynique

Fortunately, there are other black men around who are not like you who, themselves, are secure, powerful, intelligent, and kind.


Then maybe you should point them out to Mel, because she seemed to have had trouble finding one....lol.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


Delano

In the day time I worked in financial services met and saw the heavy weights in the field. Saw Michael Milken on the elevator at Drexel Burnham, said hi to Reggie Lewis who was on his way to meet Michael Milken, was at a meet and greet with Max Chapman, and spoke with Ken Chenault, meet presidential candidate Michael Dukakis. Had a personal chat with Peter Lord about astrology. He is in the Family Stand and he wrote Touch for Paula Abdul. I hung with artists musicians and night people.
 

Ohhh, you can remember all of that......but you can't remember when or where you got the rumors of Martin Luther King and Malcolm X allegedly slept with men after being challenged on it....lol.
((shakes head))


If you'd actually follow my posts and the conversation you'd realize that I too also use the term White man (singular) for the most part  in referring to her ex-husband, and White men (plural) only occasionally.
 

 

 

 

 

Mel


You’re wrong for assuming the best man is a white man for everyone. A white man wasn’t the best man for my mom.
But since you believe the white man is the best man - I’m going to step out of the argument you seem to be having with yourself.


Mel, here are YOUR WORDS IN CONTEXT regarding your White ex:

 

Quote

 

 

I imagined the BEST man to come into my life.

After dealing with my baby daddy for all those years - who by the way said and did a lot of mean things to me - during my pregnancy and some not so nice things afterwards; I created a way for the BEST man to come into my life.

And he did. And he was perfect for me. Now did I choose him because he was white? NOPE!

 


You tried to divert the focus from his race by claiming it wasn't his Whiteness that attracted you or made him the best but it was his qualities and kindness to you.  However, the fact remains that in your own words after creating a way for the BEST MAN (not just for you but period because you didn't qualify it with those words) to come into your life, out of the billions of Black, Asian, Latino, and Indian men out there....a WHITE MAN popped up!

If I'm moving to Buckhead but I'm only making $120,000 a year........
I'm going to ask a realtor to find the best home FOR ME...instead of the BEST HOME IN BUCKHEAD.
Why?
Because there's a difference between the best home and the best home for me.
The focus is on ME and MY NEEDS, not on all of the homes in Buckhead.
The BEST HOME in Buckhead might be a mansion!
But the BEST HOME FOR ME would be a bungalow or a condo given my salary.

You didn't place the focus on YOU and your needs  by calling him the best, you placed the focus on all men and who ranks the best among them and you placed A White man at the top.  Even if of the billions of men out there you place THAT White man at the top and behind him there are a million Black ones before you get to another White man...the fact remains that YOU feel that the best man is still a White man.

 

 

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I'm not trying to beat this drum too hard. I know for the most part black women are not ready to stop wearing their weaves and wigs. We haven't gotten that far yet and I know the women are strong minded so I don't want to keep this going. I'm just asking black women to consider the affect that this behavior is having on your children and any black child that is able to see you. And yes, I know the whites do it too... but their history is the opposite of ours so I am sure the thinking processes behind their actions are not similar to ours. Their kids aim to imitate white people's standard of beauty. The problem is, so do our kids. I am sure everyone is familiar with the doll test which should be a real eye opener.

 

Anyway, and I'd like to point out that this has everything to do with outer beauty and how black women visually see themselves. I know some may look down on the fact that I call black women beautiful but I make no apology for doing that, especially at a point in time when there appears to be the most well orchestrated gender war in the black community and a time when black women feel like black men do not protect them and choose white women. I have no problem telling black women they are beautiful and I go out of my way to do that when I witness the rarity of a black woman wearing her own crown and taking pride in hair that her own dna was able to grow.

 

@Guest Loren Carle

On 2/16/2019 at 2:01 PM, Guest Loren Carle said:

I recognise that I probably experience a lot of privilege in making these decisions

With respect, you don't really have a place in this conversation and I don't say that to be offensive to you. The fact is, Loren, you are a symbol of the reason why Black women feel the need to look more like white women. Yes. Your people have enforced these practices during slavery and through mental brainwashing, conditioning and further in the workplace you have made it appear that if you are Black and want to get ahead then the key to achieving that is to look and behave as though you were white. That's how supremacy works.

 

If my family had a reputation for beating up all the kids in school and forcing them to give lunch money away to the bullies, wouldn't I look pretty stupid or conniving if I took up for these kids and told everyone it was okay for them to give their money away to the bullies if they wanted to? Then tell the most wonderful stories about how other kids gave their money away to make them feel validated? Heck! I might even tell a personal story of my own. That's how I view your opinion on this matter. With all do respect, as appreciative we all are of your opinion, it doesn't deserve to hold any weight whatsoever in THIS particular discussion. I can go on for a while about why not, but that would just be a rant and too much typing.

 

On 2/16/2019 at 2:01 PM, Guest Loren Carle said:

Do their employers or co-workers comment on their self-presentation in ways that give them fear for their income that supports their children?

And what employers do you actually think would create an environment for Black women to only be comfortable wearing weaves or wigs? In any white controlled country, and many Black countries, of which most are colonized by white people (that's a topic you should participate in since you feel the need), who do you think would be deciding what is acceptable for Black women to wear in the workplace?

 

My point is that white people are actually the ones responsible for backwards behavior in the Black community. So when they try to justify flawed behavior in the Black community, that pisses me off pretty much the same as when you justify flawed white behavior or racism.

 

On 2/16/2019 at 2:01 PM, Guest Loren Carle said:

it's just the same old sad story of men presuming to dictate how women should present themselves, expressing the same old sick power dynamic.

This comment is especially offensive to me - when you talk about power and dictating anything! It's actually funny, in it's own sick-jokish kind of way. But if I elaborated, you would probably say that I was an extremist proBlack. The truth is, no one is dictating anything to anyone. Black people are slowly starting to wake up and with waking up comes empowerment. This indeed could be the reason that police shootings of children and innocent Black people have spiraled out of control in the past decade. It's like, once white people found out that Black people were powerful enough to get a Black president elected, the police felt we weren't killing ourselves fast enough so they helped us out.

 

Could it be that white people are actually afraid of Black people waking up and beginning to think for themselves? Physically, you will not be threatened by a Black man or woman as far as your systematic power structure is concerned. However, if too many of us started to match white people in wit and intelligence, there would probably be a war waged against us (not implying that there is not already one waged) because once Black people start waking up, that's when they become the real threat. So the racist (not directed at you) would be to validate poor decisions and tell Black people it's okay to stay sleep because they're not hurting anyone, knowing good and well they are hurting someone - just not you. The behavior is hurting Black people, especially the kids who have to psychologically deal with the mind fuck that their parents do to them because they haven't yet awakened themselves!

On 2/16/2019 at 2:01 PM, Guest Loren Carle said:

What we can do is examine work on our own attitudes honestly and privately, without looking for kudos (or to get laid) for being woke: nobody owes us anything.

Actually, you couldn't be more wrong. African Americans are owed a lot! We have been stripped of our land and watched as your ancestors hung ours and fed their children to the alligators... these people were our relatives! We watch silently while you have colonized most of Africa and tried to colonize every Black nation on the planet. You told our Black queens that they were ugly and that their hair was terrible to look at. You told the men that too but we recovered more quickly. You killed our kids and pretended slavery was over when you really invented a legal system that would forever oppress us. You smiled in our faces and told us it was going to be okay while you took away everything from us. Then you complained that something was wrong us! I'm not talking about you directly. I'm talking about your ancestors and probably some relatives and friends.

 

Again, this is not a I hate white people rant. I have worked around white people and I actually live around white people and don't have that many complaints. I don't believe all white people are the enemy or out to get me. But I do believe you have no place in this discussion. Because while I can almost read the mind of a Black woman and know that when she puts on her hair hat she is begging and craving validation, you would have no way of knowing the thoughts that are going through her mind and WHY she is actually wearing a hair hat to begin with. You couldn't understand. I'm not even sure if you are capable of understanding the mental mind state of a Black person and what motivates them to make any decision they do. It's because you are wired differently. Your social reality is a completely different reality and when you try to walk in ours, you will forever be lost. You are not capable of comprehending how much damage your ancestors and your race has done and is still doing to Black people. All over the planet!

 

 

On 2/16/2019 at 2:48 PM, Mel Hopkins said:
On 2/16/2019 at 1:20 PM, Cynique said:

What's even more appealing is a powerful white man who is secure enough to be a kind person. if this type is appreciative of a black woman, this erases a multitude of sins. At some point, bitching about racism gets old.

 

@Cynique Yes!!!  Confidence!!

Wow. I didn't expect to read this. I'm now officially done with the topic about "beautiful black women."

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@Pioneer1

you can’t take my words out of context - no matter how much you write. 

 

I conjured up the best man for me - and he showed up.  And he happened to be white. But not just white - so handsome that white women hated me.  full stop.  

 

But what’s relevant today is he is great father! 

 

Now, you can whine about it all you want;  but it is what is.  It doesn’t diminish his standing.  No man, including black men I met before him ...was as kind, considerate and caring as he is. 

 

So you can write what you want - it carries no weight and doesn’t change the main point - .  

 

Ali presented himself as sexist, misogynist poster child for white supremacy in that interview. 

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1 hour ago, Pioneer1 said:

I'm going to ask a realtor to find the best home FOR ME...instead of the BEST HOME IN BUCKHEAD.

 

@Pioneer1 oh by the way, this perspective definitely illustrates you and I live in different worlds.

 

I don’t limit myself ever.   If I’m going create an opportunity- I’m going to create the BEST and then I’ll decide  if it fits.  

 

You may live within limits but that’s  not for me. 

 

You may want to reread my words.  

 

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Nubian

Wow. I didn't expect to read this.

I did.....
I KNEW how they felt and I TOLD YOU that they are inlove with White men and to notice how as much as you call them "sister" they never called you "brother"....until I pointed it out.   They see THEM as their savior and see YOU (not you personally but intelligent masculine Black men collectively) as the problem and in many cases their adversary and enemy.

But it's not malicous bro, their minds are just poisoned from growing up in a poisonous system that tries to teach them to hate themselves and hate their men and even hate their children. Even they don't know where it comes from.

Miracles can happen and they CAN possibly be changed,  but one of the best things to do is for strong intelligent Black men to RAISE A NEW GENERATION of Black boys and girls with the correct frame of mind  to break this generational.....uhh.....dilema (I won't use that other word).


 

 

 


Mel

 

I conjured up


"Conjured up"......
Interesting choice of words.


When you first described the being you "conjured up" you said:
 

Quote

 

 

 

I married 1 blond hair blue-eyed french /german white man who to this day still loves this dark-skinned kinky-hair black woman and the ground she walks on.

 

Even though we’re no longer married I considered myself lucky for choosing this strong white man as partner.

 




Now you say:
 

Quote


And he happened to be white. But not just white - so handsome that white women hated me



Seems to me you sound GRATEFUL that a "handsome" and "powerful"  White man with blonde hair and blue eyes  CAME DOWN (from being conjured up) and found a Black woman even worthy of consideration.

But just remember.....demons and devils are also conjured up.

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18 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said:

But just remember.....demons and devils are also conjured up.

 

Can’t forget! I -got tired of dealing with them—So, -I wrote the book then I conjured up THE BEST MAN!

 

 

 9781411673144.jpg

Edited by Mel Hopkins
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On 2/16/2019 at 2:48 PM, Mel Hopkins said:

I never sought a “white” man... I thought these attributes & characteristics existed in the black men I dated and held  in high esteem.  That is until they revealed themselves.  

 

I wonder how many black women, have denied themselves wonderful experiences and a life partner because they are waiting for these traits to appear in a black man.  I wonder if they too feared losing an opportunity to comment on the pathologies in the black community because their non-black partner?

So much was said right here. I'm not going to comment, just try to lift my jaw back up.

 

@Pioneer1  I won't lie. I thought you were being a little harsh, at first. Today this thread made me vomit in my mouth a little. Ever get the feeling that white supremacy has already won? After everything they did to our ancestors and still do to us. . .  them bastards seem to keep proving who is superior and who is not.

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11 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

You act as if strict rules are the worse thing a person can go through.

 

In a word, "yes." Slavery imposed strict rules, incarceration imposes strict rules, living in your momma's house imposes strict rules. Free adults abhor strict rules -- it is the opposite of freedom. 

 

I've often said I understand where @Pioneer1 is coming from, because some of what he says are postions I once held but the we disagree on so much now because my positions have changed.  Similarly with @NubianFellow he is so striden, forcefull, and skilled in expressing his opinions he is hard to ignore. But he too, on this issue, is painting with too broad a brush. 

 

I'd seen the video before and depending upon your world view it might seem like compeling proof of a little Black girl who wants deperately to be white and have long flowing hair.

 

The reality is shit is often more complex. I've raised to girls and if you take a toy from them yhat they were playing, for no apparent reason, they might get upset and if could be a stick they just found on the ground.

 

Maybe the kid was minimiking a older person whose hair was blown dry (a natural hair style that would presumably pass muster with pioneer and nubian). Maybe her parents have her in front of the TV all day and she watched one too many Pantene commercials.

 

This video proves nothing.

 

What Black women do what they with their is far more complex than being brainwashed to be like white people. 

 

The Maasai women shave their hair and the warriors (men) run around braiding there hair. How do you think American Brothers would react if Black women adopted the hair styles of our African sisters in present day Kenya/Tanzania?

 

 

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@Troy While it is true that no one can read the girls mind and we don't know what she is actually thinking, I think it's dangerous.

 

Same thing with the white doll/black doll test if we believe in those experiments. One could argue that the kids chose the dolls that they thought would please the adults, especially if the adults were white. Some of the kids could have felt it was a challenge and maybe concluded that they were supposed to choose wrong. It's still a dangerous observation and I believe the conclusion of the results are accurate. Also, I believe the overall behavior of how black people socially respond and behave in society is a direct reflection of the data supplied by these tests.

 

In the video where the girl cries when her wig is taken away, I am left with many questions. For instance, why is she wearing a weave in the first place, to even play with it? I doubt that there was an adult present who had natural hair just from the fact that she is wearing a weave that hopefully belongs to an adult. But playing devil's advocate, if her parents do wear their hair naturally, why are they letting this child wear a weave? Assuming they are natural you may also believe that they are somewhat conscious and would promote that same attitude around their daughter as well as not let her be influenced by low vibrational behavior. That's why I believe that was her mother in the video laughing.

 

Subconsciously, no matter what, she is going to equate wearing that weave with being visually beautiful, if she doesn't already. And if she duplicated the behavior from her mother, then she probably already sees it as enhancing her beauty. Would she have acted the same way if someone placed a toy cat on her head? I don't know, but I doubt it.

 

 

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4 hours ago, NubianFellow said:

Wow. I didn't expect to read this. I'm now officially done with the topic about "beautiful black women."

 

3 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

i did.....
I KNEW how they felt and I TOLD YOU that they are inlove with White men and to notice how as much as you call them "sister" they never called you "brother"....until I pointed it out.   They see THEM as their savior and see YOU (not you personally but intelligent masculine Black men collectively) as the problem and in many cases their adversary and enemy.

 

2 hours ago, NubianFellow said:

 I thought you were being a little harsh, at first. Today this thread made me vomit in my mouth a little. Ever get the feeling that white supremacy has already won? After everything they did to our ancestors and still do to us. . .  them bastards seem to keep proving who is superior and who is not.

 

These responses don't push me into the arms of white men, but they do crystallize  the reason why certain black men make me roll my eyes upward.  If i was a young woman on the market, looking for a boyfriend, I'd wouldn't set my sites on somebody who eats drinks and sleeps black fanaticism, constantly nagging and droning and pouting about how a black woman should represent what they have decided is acceptable.  Guys who can only be described as envying white men who have out-foxed black ones and now run the world. You have completely overreacted to the post from the innocuous white man, and Mel's having been married to a white guy who she found attractive on many levels.  Get over it.  Stop wallowing in your insecurities. and whining about the irrepressible racism that is not cramping your style, just your flexibility. Not to mention that you are not altogether infallible in your views and solutions. You are not visionaries, you are maladjusted malcontents, victims of your own brainwashing. Petulant because you can't mold black women to fit your specifications, never considering that you yourselves might leave something to be desired as you walk around exemplifying your own brand of European mediocrity.   Yes, racism is ubiquitous but you can't conceive of the idea that it will run its course because diversity is the wave of the future. No, you're stuck in the mire of a viscous tar pit that hampers your inability to cope with an indifferent world that ignores your grievances.  Go out and find the type of women who  meet your standards and spare the rest of black women your Afro-centric vigilance. 

 

Thank you Troy and Del for your posts representing broadminded guys.   (BTW, i said before that i don't really think little black girls today would prefer a Lady Gaga doll over a Nikki Minaj one.)  This is 2019. 

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42 minutes ago, Troy said:

The reality is shit is often more complex. I've raised to girls 

@Troy  Bravo for this response! And I know from speaking with one of your daughters you and your former wife were successful!  Your daughter is lovely.  

 

And absolutely, it is more complex than that video.  But why are we seeing a video of a baby girl  in her private moments? Why is there someone making fun of her while the world watches? Why is there a man - who sounds decidely like a black man chastising a baby girl?    We don’t know if this will leave psychological scars on a child who is experiencing life in her environment.    

 

And how is this supposed to build up the black community, again?  Smh

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1 hour ago, Mel Hopkins said:

 

And how is supposed to build up the black community, again?  Smh

@Mel Hopkins The parents allowed this video on social media. I actually didn't realize a guy was narrating the video because I didn't watch this version of it. In the original, the mother is laughing and saying, "This is how she acts when I take the weave off. Now look, When she gets it back she is happy," which led me to believe she posted this on her social media and when it went viral I suppose people made their own versions of it. But since it's showing an adorable girl and there is nothing embarrassing towards the girl, it's not offensive. It shows poor behavior on the parents part. The girl did nothing wrong. Same with the doll tests. These things show behavior which is something that black people need to analyze in the black community.

 

 

@Cynique My best friend is half white and even though he knows I hold strong views and his family are aware of my views, we get along fine. I get along well with white people and interracial relationships do not trigger me. I don't judge anyone who dates out. Life is short! I don't date out but I could care less who anyone else is attracted to - just keeping it real.  I do tend to get under people's skin sometimes but I hope that's not the case now. We are just exchanging information and viewpoints.

 

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1 hour ago, NubianFellow said:

While it is true that no one can read the girls mind and we don't know what she is actually thinking,..

 

You can stop right there because everything else is hype, spin, and speculation.

 

You and I both know what people choose to post on social media and their morivations for doing it is more about them and less about reflecting truth.

 

1 hour ago, Mel Hopkins said:

We don’t know if this will leave psychological scars on a child who is experiencing life in her environment.    

 

Exactly. People have formed negative opinions about the little girl out if thin air. She'll need to deal with the nonsense, for the video will never go away... she'll be the poster child for Black self hate, simply because some gave her a wig to play with. 

 

48 minutes ago, NubianFellow said:

I was caught off guard by the white worship...

 

Again, you're looking at it wrong. It is not white worhsip or Black self hate. Mel's husband's so called race was incidental to her. 

 

For us, it would been a showstopper, for all the reasons mentioned, but she obviously does not think the way we do about it race. Too bad everyone does not think the way she does. The world would be a better place.

 

 

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33 minutes ago, Troy said:

For us, it would been a showstopper, for all the reasons mentioned, but she obviously does not think the way we do about it race. Too bad everyone does not think the way she does. The world would be a better place.

33 minutes ago, Troy said:

You can stop right there because everything else is hype, spin, and speculation.

 

You and I both know what people choose to post on social media and their morivations for doing it is more about them and less about reflecting truth.

@Troy I removed the video. But still believe the child is not the focus of this forum, but only behavior. Therefore, I don't feel that discussion about the topic would be insensitive in this debate. But everyone knows what video I am referring to (just like the doll test) and I believe what is happening here is self evident. We either see it or we don't. This debate is similar to me of the debate about black on violence. Everyone kills themselves so black on black violence doesn't exist. At the end of the day, black people are not required to address their flaws or inferior behavior, that is if black people even believe that they posses inferior behavior.

 

5 hours ago, NubianFellow said:

What's even more appealing is a powerful white man who is secure enough to be a kind person.

 

3 hours ago, NubianFellow said:

I never sought a “white” man... I thought these attributes & characteristics existed in the black men I dated and held  in high esteem.  That is until they revealed themselves.  

What I notice here is the high esteem in which white men are held by black women as opposed to other black men. From my viewpoint, these very ideas are what has been responsible for enabling white people to prove their superiority over them. What's more interesting is that subconsciously, we understand this because we have expressed these very sentiments of them being superior... while approving of these very sentiments... in this very discussion. lol 

 

33 minutes ago, Troy said:

Again, you're looking at it wrong. It is not white worhsip or Black self hate. Mel's husband's so called race was incidental to her.

I didn't mention Mel's husband brotha. That is insignificant to me in this discussion. I don't discuss my personal life so I won't judge or discuss anyone else'. I am only pointing out what is bought up in this discussion relevant to how black women see themselves. Since the black woman is only a reflection of the black man and we come from the same place, I believe that how the black woman sees the black man is a direct indication of how she also sees herself.

 

I don't know enough about anyone's personal life to give input unless they freely volunteer information.  Her marrying a white man is not even part of the focus. It's what was expressed about black people which is the focus.

33 minutes ago, Troy said:

For us, it would been a showstopper, for all the reasons mentioned, but she obviously does not think the way we do about it race. Too bad everyone does not think the way she does. The world would be a better place

Yes indeed it would, however, if this was one-sided I don't even want to begin imagining how that would end up. Perhaps that's another more heated topic for later.

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3 hours ago, NubianFellow said:

Since the black woman is only a reflection of the black man and we come from the same place

 

False - 

 

Women give birth to men. - men come from women.  The first rhythm a man hears is his mother’s heart beat. 

 

Therefore, if anything. a man sees his reflection in woman.  How a man treats a woman is how he feels about himself. 

 

But that is just as ridiculous as what you’ve written. Every animal including humans imitate their immediate environment. 

 

If I see my reflection in anyone, it’s my parents. It’s those two who taught me how to carry myself and relate to the world. 

 

Further, it’s not only black women and men who come from the same place, EVERY human on the planet comes from the same place; Africa.  

 

Now, if we’re speaking about which area of the huge continent we migrated/or kidnapped from and when; then matrilineally/genetically speaking  My ancestors ascended from Ethiopia - allegedly 85,000 + years ago. 

 

There are no enslaved Africans in America on my maternal side.

 

I doubt I even share a genetic code with anyone here. Let alone a “reflection”. 

 

Besides Troy, I’ve yet to meet a black man on here or on my journey who has shared or had the same experiences as I.  Delano and I share a similar metaphysical consciousness.   

 

So generally speaking it would be impossible to see my reflection in any black man. I rarely have anything in common with black men specifically, men generally.

 

I think the challenge here as Delano mentioned is speaking in generalities to individuals.  

 

We are not a single story people. 

 

But if you chose to make us ONE then it must include all modern humans who ascended out of Africa. All shades and colors.

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20 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

First you defend Black men who are gay, then you defend Black women who call White men better than Black men.

 

@Pioneer1 You are way out of line! And you are completely off point. 

 

REgarding Black men that are homosexual, that is their choice so, what business is it of mine? I thought I said this before, but if I have not; I have a male friend who seemed to me to be homosexual, although, I never troubled him to ask at the time, but I later heard that he actually was and began to dress as a female and he changed his name. This young fellow, never knew his father since he was born. His father was imprisoned and so, he was raised by his grandmother. I have also heard Black homosexuals that were molested when they were little children and these are just two situations that causes me to not be judgmental, at all!!! So yes, to answer your question, I will defend BLack homosexuals, generally speaking. But, PIoneer, how dare you equate homosexuals to Black women who, for what ever reason, choose to be in an interracial relationship! You gotta nerve! 

 

I did not defend 'Black women' who call White men better than BLack men. As I said, earlier, This man chose to marry Mel, and so, they both chose to commit to a marriage. 

I didn't get that same understanding as you, in that she 'calls White men better than Black men'. 

I understand that her past relationships with Black men were not good, and the man that she married came along and she feels that he was 'the Best Man' for her. 

I think that you are reading into her explanation too deep.

 

I can understand why Black men would jump to this conclusion that you have, but, now, you are accusing me, and I didn't even make that choice. Wow!

 

 

20 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Do you not see how both of these groups are counter-productive to the progress of Black society because their positions mean the destruction of the Black family?

 

@Pioneer1 I feel that Black Homosexuals and Black men and women that engage in inter-racial relationships are not counter-productive to the progress of BLack society as the primary focus, but I feel that it is how the government exploits and uses many ploys and these 'groups' tht you mention may or may not fall into that category depending on the individuals. ANd I feel the the destruction of the Black family began a long time ago, when White Supremacist systems were able to set up. Were these systems able to set up due to our ancestors? I say yes, but when Black people attack other Black people as a solution to the problem is so wrong.

20 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Spandex is not a problem....blonde hair is.

 

Ah!!! See, you completely ignored my defense regarding your reaction to 'Arianne Grande'! Now this is interesting.

I see your behavior as being 'White Supremacist' in this case for the initial reason and now, also in that you completely avoided addressing this subject. You only continue to berate Black women. This is amazing. So White women can be in your environment and Black men can flirt with them, but Black women are to wear clothes covering themselves from the head-to-toe, with the exception of the eyes, vis-a-vis the Muhammad Ali, reference you posted!? 

Ah!!!

 

 

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21 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

She SAID a White man is the best man, why are you ignoring this or defending it?

 

LIke I said, she was referring to her husband, . . . who chose her! That's her personal choice. But I understand that you are saying that she picked him because he was White. @Pioneer1 I feel that you are cherry picking. You are ignoring her statements in how she had bad relationships with previous men, that were Black. Now, I am going to read into this statement, because I can relate, as a BLack woman; I feel that I know where she is coming from, in that in many cases, Black men do not respect Black women, and that is putting it mildly!!! I don't understand why you are conveniently ignoring this truth!!!

 

But as for me, yes, I have found a BLack man that, though not perfect in the beginning, but adores me, is kind to me, and etc. I have had many positive relationships with Black men and so, I personally, made a hard decision that I wanted to marry a Black AFrican-typed man or else, I was simply not going to get married. But, I tell you, I see several Black women married to White and other men, and they are a match, for certain. 

21 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

I've heard some of her statements echoed by other Black women who have attempted to justify their love for White men and hatred for Black men which is why I said those who make statements like this can't be trusted.

 

@Pioneer1 Well, I have to say, that when I hear Black men justify Black women, negatively as the reason they want White women, I do NOT like it at all. But, I would never attack someone personally, who has stated that he had bad relationships, was treated badly, and etc. This too, is true, IMO. There are some Black women that behave very disrespectful to Black men. I makes me cringe.

21 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

I'm not saying this about Mel, but many of these women actually DO hate Black men so much they would join the KKK and help White men harm Black men if given the opportunity.  They just make up excuses to justify it.

 

Oh but yes you are. You are putting this label on her, IMO. 

 

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2 hours ago, Mel Hopkins said:

I think the challenge here as Delano mentioned is speaking in generalities to individuals.  

 

We are not a single story people. 

 

So true!

2 hours ago, Mel Hopkins said:

Therefore, if anything. a man sees his reflection in woman.  How a man treats a woman is how he feels about himself. 

 

On this score @Mel Hopkins I have stories of abusive nurturers, nurturers who have abused little Black boys, and took it out on their sons due to their bad experiences with Black men, and I believe this too, is a part of the problem in this world. I don't believe that Patriarchal system is only to blame for racism.

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On 2/17/2019 at 10:23 PM, NubianFellow said:

nique My best friend is half white and even though he knows I hold strong views and his family are aware of my views, we get along fine. I get along well with white people and interracial relationships do not trigger me. I don't judge anyone who dates out. Life is short! I don't date out but I could care less who anyone else is attracted to - just keeping it real.  I do tend to get under people's skin sometimes but I hope that's not the case now. We are just exchanging information and viewpoints.

It's like you are passive aggressive when it comes to white people, and it's clear that your resentment toward them is simmering just beneath the surface.  But you actually don't owe anybody an explanation or justification for this. This is your right.  The person being most harmed by your ambivalence is you because your vacillating  emotions frustrate you.  Whether you realize it or not you are a house nigga who has a love-hate relationship with your status. LOL But i adore you.  Why? Because your intelligence empowers you and i can sense that you are kind, and of course have a great affection for black woman. Some woman will be lucky to win your devotion.  And you are a welcome addition to this board. 

 

I am from another generation, and my attitude toward whites came out my experience of growing up in a small northern interracial town and attending integrated schools.  My resentment toward white folks was tempered by how me and my small group of peers never sought white approval or acceptance.  We were comfortable in our own skins and liked the lives we created for ourselves. In high school i was engulfed in a white sea of classmates, casually acquainted with typical blonde, blue-eyed or swarthy white guys, all-american honor students and sports jocks, the last astronaut to walk on the moon being one of them.  They were  never mean or disrespectful to me.  Black guys, were were not as kind.  Because they had their own issues.  And during both my high school and college days, white people would often seek us blacks out, wanting to be our friends and wanting to be taught how to dance and play bid whist and be cool.  This was during the 1950s.  Once the Civil Rights movement got underway, we were surrounded by do-gooder bleeding heart white Liberals, eager to show how unprejudiced they were, unaware of being benign racists steeped in white privilege.  They were almost amusing. We were actually the type who would blow off black face, attributing it to white stupidity, not black shame.  That's where i come from. No denying it is not the typical black experience nor one to be celebrated, but it is mine.  (One that, nonetheless, didn't not my dull capacity for hating Donald Trump and all he represents. ) I married a black man whose background was similar to mine, and later worked around white men who would laugh and joke and flirt with me. And were kind.   What can i say? As Mel has astutely noted, "we are not a single story people."  

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40 minutes ago, Cynique said:

Whether you realize it or not you are a house nigga

@Cynique I think that's an emotional driven observation, however, you have a right to your opinion. Though I'd prefer that if I am going to be called a nigga - which I detest vehemently, please call me a field nigga. lol I always thought the house person held white people to the highest regard. This is where the confusion sets in. I thought the house person is the one who would defend massah any chance they get and knew the dominate relationship that existed between them and 'massah.' I don't feel like that describes my views.
 

1 hour ago, Cynique said:

actually don't owe anybody any explanation or justification

The reason I am presenting these ideas is to engage with my people on black social media. At the end of the day, we are all content creators. There is nothing ambiguous about my beliefs, however, I do struggle sometimes trying to present my case in a way as though I don't accidentally offend anyone. That's not why I am here. Being around so many well-spoken individuals, I don't want to come off as abrasive.

 

I think we are all people at the end of the day. I don't hate anyone because that's not of my nature. I don't believe it is of my people's nature to hate - only respond to the hate that the world has shown us and keeps showing us.

 

Love ya queen and thank you.

 

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The house nigga lives in the massa's house and enjoys all the privileges which come with this, but this doesn't mean  he likes being a slave.  The field nigga is breakin his back pickin cotton or tobacco or cane, which today would be equivalete to being a street person living in the inner city/ghetto hustling.  i didn't get the idea that this is your lifestyle. You sound very middleclass but discontented. I described you as ambiguous because after you vent, you retreat and come very close to apologizing.     

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@Cynique The house person was also the least likely to oppose his "massah" or run away. That doesn't fit me. I am a hustler by nature but not in the streets. I am fortunate as a black man and live in a peaceful environment.  The apology comes from a sincere place. I understand how my people have been psychologically attacked and pit against each other. I never want to come off as an enforcer of these principles or beliefs. I never want to make a black person feel bad about being black.

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3 minutes ago, NubianFellow said:

I am fortunate as a black man...

A fortunate black man?? Egads! LOL

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Mel

Now the the BEST man you conjured up just happened to be a White man.

But I wonder what race/ethnicity was this "D-man" (demon) character of your novel?????
Haven't read it yet, but something tells me he didn't have blonde hair or blue eyes.

At the risk of you telling me it's none of my business.......
Since you say this man was so great (the "best man" according to you)  and he's still alive, I don't suppose you want to fill us in on why you're no longer with him.



 

 

 

 

Troy


In a word, "yes." Slavery imposed strict rules, incarceration imposes strict rules, living in your momma's house imposes strict rules. Free adults abhor strict rules -- it is the opposite of freedom.

Actualy it depends on the adult.
For me PERSONALLY, in many cases it's not about how strict or lax the rules are but how FAIR they are and how justly they are enforced.

On too many jobs whether there are many rules or just a few, the fact that SOME people get to break the rules and are held to a different standard while othes are victims of zero tolerance policies.

One of the reason Black people don't like a lot of rules is because many of our people are too LAZY (yes I said it....lol) to make our own rules and live by them.  They'd rather let White people make the laws of the land, policies at work, rules at work, and then complain about how unjust they are.
On many of these jobs you'll see a predominately Black workforce and a predominately White management and you wonder if racism is the reason until you realize that the Black workers aren't in management because they didn't want the responsibility that comes with it. But when they are the first to get fired or always end up getting the shittiest hours.....they want to complain.

Rules are good as long as they are just and promotes the agenda they were intended for.


 

 

 

 

 

Nubian

I won't lie. I thought you were being a little harsh, at first. Today this thread made me vomit in my mouth a little. Ever get the feeling that white supremacy has already won? After everything they did to our ancestors and still do to us. . . them bastards seem to keep proving who is
superior and who is not.


Well, the purpose of me even coming into this thread in the first place was to EXPOSE to you who you were dealing with and their mentality.
As you know women tend to be less direct than men and they'll fight and and fuss with you over one thing when they're really angry over something else.
Black women in America often will fight and fuss with Black men over them being controling or telling them how to dress or how to fix their hair when that's not really the issue.
The issue is that too many Black men are broke and powerless and THAT'S what these women are angry about but they won't say it.
A powerful Black man with wealth can tell a Black woman anything he wants and she'll shut the hell up and do it with no argument like they often do it for White men.

BTW......POWERFUL response to Loren Carle.
I didn't even notice it until I heard mention of it in another thread and I had to come back and read it.



Cynique

 

Guys who can only be described as envying white men who have out-foxed black ones and now run the world. You have completely overreacted to the post from the innocuous white man, and Mel's having been married to a white guy who she found attractive on many levels. Get over it. Stop wallowing in your insecurities. and whining about the irrepressible racism that is not cramping your style, just your flexibility. Not to mention that you are not altogether infallible in your views and solutions. You are not visionaries, you are maladjusted malcontents, victims of your own brainwashing. Petulant because you can't mold black women to fit your specifications, never considering that you yourselves might leave something to be desired as you walk around exemplifying your own brand of European mediocrity. Yes, racism is ubiquitous but you can't conceive of the idea that it will run its course because diversity is the wave of the future. No, you're stuck in the mire of a viscous tar pit that hampers your inability to cope with an indifferent world that ignores your grievances. Go out and find the type of women who meet your standards and spare the rest of black women your Afro-centric vigilance.

Well.....
You sound rather IMPRESSED by the actions of White men.

Infact, you sound like you ADMIRE the way Caucasian men have trotted the globe colonizing other people's lands and slaughtering and enslaving millions of people of color.
Even going as far as to accuse AfroAmerican men who point it out as being "envious" of their accomplishments.


 

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Chev

 

But, PIoneer, how dare you equate homosexuals to Black women who, for what ever reason, choose to be in an interracial relationship! You gotta nerve!

Both are engaging in behavior that reduces the Black population.
 


I did not defend 'Black women' who call White men better than BLack men. As I said, earlier, This man chose to marry Mel, and so, they both chose to commit to a marriage. 

I didn't get that same understanding as you, in that she 'calls White men better than Black men'.

I understand that her past relationships with Black men were not good, and the man that she married came along and she feels that he was 'the Best Man' for her.

I think that you are reading into her explanation too deep.

I don't think you're reading her explaination AT ALL.
She clearly said that the best man period...was a White man.
That means that a White man is better than ALL Black men as far as she's concerned.

 

 

 

Ah!!! See, you completely ignored my defense regarding your reaction to 'Arianne Grande'!

What did Ariana do wrong?
What does what she wore to Aretha's funeral have to do with this conversation?

What Ariana wore MAY have been inappropriate, but even as a Caucasian women she never said that White men were better than Black men.

 

 


in that in many cases, Black men do not respect Black women, and that is putting it mildly

Was that White principle in your school who tried to shut Black girls down and force them to wear their hair a certain way showing you respect?
What Black man showed you MORE disrespect than he did?
What has a Black man done to YOU that was more controling and disrespectful than that?


 

LIke I said, she was referring to her husband, . . . who chose her!

He didn't simply choose her, she made the first move and  "conjured" up this blonde haired blue eyed man of her dreams whom she has declared to be the "best" of all men, not just for her....but period.
And he just "happens" to be a White man, lol.

 

Image result for jesus



You keep justifying why a Black woman should worship White men by making excuses for it instead of condemning it all together.

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1 hour ago, Pioneer1 said:

You keep justifying why a Black woman should worship White men by making excuses for it instead of condemning it all together.

 

@Pioneer1 That is crazy!!! You are too judgmental. I can't believe that you would CONDEMN all Black women for committing to a White man altogether, as their husbands. WOW. Well, let me ask you this then; Do you CONDEMN ALL BLACK MEN for worshiping White women altogether? And, Do you condemn all Black men who marry White women altogether?

 

I do have a problem with Black women worshiping white men, but there is a difference to Black women who marry White men.

 

You freak me out when you posted that pic of the Anti-Christ [ie White Jesus], lol, but I will try to get around that image, because I understand more than you give me credit, about this issue of White Supremacy-- in its origins. 

 

At any rate, of whom do you target for blame as a result of this 'image' of White Jesus or, Black women who worship White men? Shouldn't you put the blame, initially on Black men and in how they threw down Black women? 

 

How can I condemn Black women for their choices in this regard, in 'worshiping White men' and not condemn BLack men altogether for the cause of it due to them 'worshiping White women'? ... and this brings me to your reaction to Arianne Grande!!!

  

1 hour ago, Pioneer1 said:

What did Ariana do wrong?
What does what she wore to Aretha's funeral have to do with this conversation?
What Ariana wore MAY have been inappropriate, but even as a Caucasian women she never said that White men were better than Black men.

 

@Pioneer1 I see, you are again avoiding the main question I posed, and that was NOT about her choice to wear a mini skirt to a funeral, but YOUR REACTION to the Black pastors response to her presence and the media zeroing in on this issue. LOL. You've avoided the whole issue, here.... and this is revealing of you Pioneer.

'MAY have been inapproprate, ...' 

 

Okay, to a Black Church!? WOW! But, Black men have so much to say about Black women and how they dress and style their hair, all the while, they almost 'ignore' the presence of White women in a BLACK COMMUNITY, dressing any way they choose... fast forward.... to Black men obssessing over White women... right in the presence of a Black funeral.... and you PIoneer cannot see your hypocrisy? That is the ultimate of White Supremacy that Black men express. This is exactly what happened in ancient times over, and over, and over again... 

 

White or Asiatic-type women or etc. came into ancient Black civilizations and  were elevated over Black women by these Black kings. 

Black men oppress Black women and hold them to a ridiculous standard, all the while, they embrace foreign women who are free to express themselves within the Black community as they please!!!

 

In ancient times, White and foreign women wore wigs extensively, and did thin in Black civilizations. So, if Black men want to scrutinize Black women, they have to also do the same to others, if they want to be taken seriously imo.

 

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2 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Was that White principle in your school who tried to shut Black girls down and force them to wear their hair a certain way showing you respect?
What Black man showed you MORE disrespect than he did?
What has a Black man done to YOU that was more controling and disrespectful than that?

 

@Pioneer1OMG!!! Do you really want me to respond to that!? LOL! HOLD ON!!! LOL!

I will take a breather here, and try to calm down, and then I will see which one of the MANY stories I choose to respond to you on this score!

Thank you, though, for being fair enough to pose this question. This makes me understand that maybe, Black men do not recognize certain viewpoints about 

gender oppression and within our 'race' altogether, and vice versa. I think communication is important.... I'll be back later... to respond to this one.

 

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