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Everything Happens for a Reason


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@Mel Hopkins I'm not sure what you are missing.  There is no "reason" behind anything that happens.  There is no omnipotent deity, collective consciousness, nothing putting people into our lives, putting us in situation or otherwise orchestrating our lives.  Each and action from the formation of this planet 4.5 billion years ago, to the emergence of sentient life here, to the marriage of your parent, to your birth, and to you ultimately asking me to explain my statement again yesterday. Knowing the initial conditions the exchange we are having right now could have been determined 13.8 billion years ago when the universe, as we know it was formed.  

 

The computational power required to make these determinations would be mind-boggling complex, but mind-boggling is not impossible.

 

Does that answer your question?

 

Side Bar that does not support my argument: 
This morning I upset someone I care about, not intentionally, but sometimes the way I couch things can seem insensitive (as Del has described 😉). After speaking I went to work and asked Google to play some songs, in a manner that I never did before.  Would you believe the first song that popped up perfectly explained what I was feeling and the sentiment I was trying to express. I could not believe it!  I looked up the lyrics and the song actually did a better job. I texted the person the song's title and artist, and asked them to look it up.  They did and they got it. 

 

When I heard the song I could not hep but think I heard that song for a reason 😮 

 

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1 hour ago, Troy said:

Does that answer your question

@Troy , no it doesn’t.

 

 However it appears you’re responding based on the supposition i’m looking for the answer to be based on a deity.  

 

I am not. 

 

Natural laws may provide an explanation but if there’s such thing as free will than there’s no deity orchestrating anything. 

 

But that side bar is ABSOLUTELY intriguing! I’ve actually written about the phenomenon in which I hypthesize that frequency of music creates worlds... and it is actually how we communicate with each other and nature.  Words and talking is inadequate but it’s the intonation that we respond to. For ex. I was in the kitchen and CSpan was playing in the background... next thing I know I hear this voice and it stops me ... I run to the television like its the second coming of Jesus speaking... but actually it was U.S. Rep Hakeem Sekou Jeffries ... His voice sounded like home... and then when I researched him I realized he was “home”.. “Brooklyn in da house”!!!  I couldn’t tell you what he said - because his words didn’t reach me. It was his tone that I was following... 

 

So when a true musician writes the music he usually knows what “lyrics” to put to it that will provide full expression to communicate its meaning. 

 

@Troybtw, I always understand you when you communicate from the heart.

 

 

 

 

 

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@Troy maybe the question isn't looking for the cause. But trying to understand the significance of the effect. In which case it means that there are no randomn occurrences. 

 

I seem to be a connector or I used to be. For instance at one of my brunches I had two people who were next door neighbors but had never met.

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8 hours ago, Mel Hopkins said:

So when a true musician writes the music he usually knows what “lyrics” to put to it that will provide full expression to communicate its meaning. 

 

True, the communicative power is music is quite fascinating. Even music in a foreign language can faithfully communicate a sentiment, though this is a more personal experience and not as easily shared as a song with lyrucs you can understand. 

 

The following song is one i really enjoy.

 

Without looking up and translating the lyrics what emotions does the song conjure?

 

8 hours ago, Mel Hopkins said:

Troybtw, I always understand you when you communicate from the heart.

 

Mel I always communicate from the heart. 😉 But i think you mean i resonate more with you when i relate a personal story. Is that true?

 

People are moved by stories. Facts and figures don't mean a thing without a good story behind it.

 

If no story exists to explain something we craft a story.

 

8 hours ago, Mel Hopkins said:

However it appears you’re responding based on the supposition i’m looking for the answer to be based on a deity.  

 

Actually @Mel Hopkins I no clue what yiu question means was grasping fir straws trying to answer it after a couple of tries Im afraid i cant answer your question.

 

8 hours ago, Mel Hopkins said:

Natural laws may provide an explanation but if there’s such thing as free will than there’s no deity orchestrating anything

 

Yes, that is the idea I'm exploring. There is no free will. Free will is yet another story we tell ourselves.

 

7 hours ago, Delano said:

In which case it means that there are no randomn occurrences

 

Again this is what im saying nothing is randon there is a cause and effect to everthing. We can know the future outcomes of everthing.

 

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13 minutes ago, Troy said:

Again this is what im saying nothing is randon there is a cause and effect to everthing. We can know the future outcomes of everthing.

How do you know that this is not something you are telling yourself?  

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1 hour ago, Troy said:

There is no free will. Free will is yet another story we tell ourselves.

 

@Troy, then why did you write this? Who told you to dispute the concept of “free will”

1 hour ago, Troy said:

But i think you mean i resonate more with you when i relate a personal story. Is that true?

 

@Troy not ruling it out but what resonates is a level of vulnerability - that is more heart than head. 

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1 hour ago, Troy said:

Without looking up and translating the lyrics what emotions does the song conjure?

 

@Troy   The emotion is ostracized but that’s too strong. This song feels like  fraternizing and men bonding.

 

While listening two images came to me - one was a scene from Lima where men were in a shopping district much like delancey street. They were sitting outside their retail shops chatting and more interested in their conversations to solve world affairs.. 

 

The  other image is night life in sao paulo, brazil . Where men gather together at the restaurants. No women - just men. 

 

Now I’m going to see what this song is about

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7 hours ago, Cynique said:
7 hours ago, Troy said:

...and this could have been foreseen at the instant of the big bang. 

how do you know that's not something you're telling yourself?  

 

@Cynique I guess we can go back and forth with this ad infinitum. For the 2nd time it IS something I'm telling myself. 

 

6 hours ago, Mel Hopkins said:

Troy, then why did you write this? Who told you to dispute the concept of “free will”

 

I don't know why my brain directed me to write this -- I acutally had no choice; this chain of events was set into motion at the moment the universe was created

 

Just because something like free will feels like it is true and the stories we've created seem to make sense. Does not make it true.

 

@Mel Hopkins (anybody) do you like the song. Have you ever heard it before?

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3 hours ago, Troy said:

Just because something like free will feels like it is true and the stories we've created seem to make sense. Does not make it true.

Doesn't make it false either.  You don't seem to grasp how incredible the world being created in its totality 1 second after the big bang is. The idea of there being free will is just as possible as your belief.  

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4 hours ago, Troy said:

I don't know why my brain directed me to write this -- I acutally had no choice; this chain of events was set into motion at the moment the universe was created

 

Just because something like free will feels like it is true and the stories we've created seem to make sense. Does not make it true.

 

@Troy , if the universe "was" created, this statement implies a creator.  So the creator is controlling your responses?  Did a Creator program all your responses for the duration of your operating system?   

Also what does "feel" have to do with veracity? 

Finally, if I "remember" correctly, didn't you mentioned to @Delano climate change /global warming is man-made?  How is that possible  if "everything" was set in motion when a creator designed and produce the universe?   The universe was going to heat up anyway because a creator programmed it to heat up at this time .  Humans didn't cause climate change - we couldn't have because it was already to determined we'd take the course of action that would result in it appearing that humans would cause our climate crisis.  

Have I accurately described your position? 

5 hours ago, Troy said:

do you like the song. Have you ever heard it before?


@Troy, This was my first time hearing it and I did like it.  I even found out the story behind the song. Kind of cool. 

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11 hours ago, Cynique said:

The idea of there being free will is just as possible as your belief.

 

Perhaps, but that is not the position I have taken and no one have said anything to convince me otherwise. 

 

10 hours ago, Mel Hopkins said:

@Troy , if the universe "was" created, this statement implies a creator. 

 

No, the creation of the universe does not imply a creator. If you think that is what I'm saying then forget it because I'm not saying that. 

 

10 hours ago, Mel Hopkins said:

if "everything" was set in motion when a creator designed and produce the universe?   The universe was going to heat up anyway because a creator programmed it to heat up at this time .  Humans didn't cause climate change - we couldn't have because it was already to determined we'd take the course of action that would result in it appearing that humans would cause our climate crisis.  

 

Yes humans have had an impact on climate change. That, like everything else, was set into motion almost 14 billion years ago.  

 

Just because everything that has or will happen can be known does not mean we are not active participants.

 

We are little more than robots, a series of sophiticated but completely predictable chemical reactions. We just believe we have free will. We have no more free will than a tree or a guppy. 

 

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, Troy said:

We are little more than robots, a series of sophiticated but completely predictable chemical reactions. We just believe we have free will. We have no more free will than a tree or a guppy. 

 

 

3 hours ago, Troy said:

...the position I have taken and no one have said anything to convince me otherwise. 

when you take a position then that implies that there are 2 sides to a question, and in this case there is no way of knowing which one is correct or even if both can be.   

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No there there is no way can either position or even an unconceived (or unconcievable) position can be proven.

 

I though it was an interesting thought experiment. At least that is the predetermined story I tell myself in my illusion of free will 😉

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We are little more than robots, a series of sophiticated but completely predictable chemical reactions

 

Yes, we’re programmable.  Much like any computer responding to code - we receive  some basic instruction and form a habit.

 

However, it’s free will / consciousness that allows us to reprogram ourselves too.  Without free will, we’d all cling to this life until the wheels fall off . Yet, we have people who change their state of being from alive to dead, daily.  We have people who literally change their lives when they change their behavior.  For no other reason but they’ve decided.  

 

Further this will and consciousness isn’t just a human thing - but I’ll save that for another discussion. 

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 Mel looking forward to the explanation of consciousness and free will

 

@Delano 

I’m not at the level where I can explain free will or consciousness.  I’m aware of it, I experience it ; but like gravity I don’t know the mechanics. 

 

Here’s a shot:

 

I’ve mentioned this in another topic here that free will is Kuumba (Swahili). Its Bantu origin means “to create something from nothing”... the “nothing” in this case is use of “imagination” the place,  I believe, consciousness exist.  

 

Originally, the meaning of choice  was free will.  The  etymology of choice reveals it was different from decision which connotes selection.  Today, we use them interchangeably.  So of course, the original meaning “choice” which also meant “to see; perceive, to create”  is lost on many.

 

But it’s not lost on children under 5 who are able to express their consciousness. They are the best examples to watch to see  free will in action. 

 

Observing children reveals consciousness is active, and present... Some believe as we age, consciousness remains more at rest than it is present.  

 

Check out this time article that obliterates everything I’ve written. I don’t care though. “I’m “free” to create and believe what I choose”

 

http://time.com/3937351/consciousness-unconsciousness-brain/

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is that a fair interpretation of your statement. Will check the link 

 

@Delano Yes!  Choose as in free to create; divine level creation.  Like when children come up with the best tales and you say, “WTH”?  

 

Selection (decision) is to pick from what is already created or presented.  That’s not choice. 

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@Delano  actually own the Zhané album you posted but did not recall the cut you posted, maybe somethings happen for a reason 😉

 

@Mel Hopkins that was an interesting article and even though it is a few years old I don't think the thinking on the subject has changed much in that our unconscious mind is in far more control over what we do than people are generally aware or would want to admit.  In the same way that we are compelled to drop a hot pan, or don't have to think about how we have to move our muscles to form words...

 

Hmm, not only don't we have free will we are aren't even aware of how we craft the stories to justify it😉

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One of  the projects I have been working is reading the unconscious mind. 

I dont have the album yet i know the song.We clearly see yhings differently. Or in this case you cant see what was always there. You dont always know what you possess. 

@Troy

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My subconscious is my built-in computer.  When i can't remember something i know, all i have to do is feed the data i do remember about the subject into my subconscious mind, and it will process the data and the specific answer i am seeking will pop into my head in a short matter of time. Whatever problem i think about before i go to sleep at night, will be sorted out when i wake up in the morning because my subconscious mind does its thing . My subconscious mind is my alter ego, my best friend, and my spiritual guide. My unconscious mind programs and symbolizes my dreams.

 

 

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You dont always know what you possess. 

 

True.

 

 

When i can't remember something i know, all i have to do is feed the data i do remember about the subject into my subconscious mind, and it will process the data and the specific answer i am seeking will pop into my head in a short matter of time.

 

I experience this ALL THE TIME. Often when I'm struggling with a solution to a problem.  I'll tell myself to forget about it and go onto to something else, confident that my subconscious will continue working on the problem and get back to me with a solution.  I only discovered this ability in the last decade or so, as I've dealt with more changing problems working on this website.

 

Some people described this as talking to God or tapping into a collective consciousness.  My "story" is a lot simpler: it is simply the way our brain works.  You don't need to meditate or gaze into a crystal. In fact, concentrating on a problem only makes it more difficult for arrive at a optimal solution.

 

Your unconscious mind can more effectually do the work -- it has access to more and is not detracted. It can also formulate solutions more creatively.  

 

 

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