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Mel Hopkins

What is African American Culture?

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On 5/8/2019 at 11:07 AM, Pioneer1 said:

Although I'm not a musician I thought the Turntable that DJs currently use was a different type of instrument than just a normal record player.

What about Break Dancing?
Lol, do you want to give a White man credit for inventing THIS 100 years before also????
 

Instead of making snit up you could use the internet. 

 

Here's a newsflash I was there and I also look things up. Since my experience is only a part. But I am not suggesting that you think critically or conceptually. 

 

 

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Image may contain: one or more people and text

 

This is just a little tile in the mosaic of African American culture. 

 

I don't agree that the African American sub culture is a matriarchy. In a typical inner-city environment, women having children out of wedlock and raising these kids with the help of an extended family is not  an example of a household headed by a female wherein the male is subordinate to her rule.  in these typical cases,  the family unit is loosely structured and its members simply do whatever works, in some cases whatever works is a single man raising his kids in the absence of a responsible mother.  In the black middle class, mothers and fathers typically share the household responsibilities and the raising their kids. In any case, an adult male member of a household routinely abandons the family rather than deferring to a matriarch. What is a more accurate description of the black family unit is that a "village" raises a child.  It also should be noted that millions of single white women raise their children under these similar circumstances.   

 

As for break dancing, Hispanics, specifically Puerto Ricans were an equal  presence in its New York city origins. And, certainly, anybody who considers themselves as being aware of everything should be familiar with the abundance  of pictures of old fashioned phonographs with turn tables. 

  s-l300.jpg

 

 

1 hour ago, Delano said:

Instead of making snit up you could use the internet. 

 

Here's a newsflash I was there and I also look things up. Since my experience is only a part. But I am not suggesting that you think critically or conceptual. 

 

@DelYour above response to pioneer's  pontificating is right on point!

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13 minutes ago, Cynique said:

I don't agree that the African American sub culture is a matriarchy. In a typical inner-city environment, women having children out of wedlock and raising these kids with the help of an extended family is not  an example of a household headed by a female wherein the male is subordinate to her rule.  in these typical cases,  the family unit is loosely structured and its members simply do whatever works, in some cases whatever works is a single man raising his kids in the absence of a responsible mother.  In the black middle class, mothers and fathers typically share the household responsibilities and the raising their kids. In any case, an adult male member of a household routinely abandons the family rather than deferring to a matriarch. What is a more accurate description of the black family unit is that a "village" raises a child.  It also should be noted that millions of single white women raise their children under these similar circumstances. 


@Cynique Thank you! Although this explanation is bittersweet, it's perfect.  

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1 hour ago, Cynique said:

As for break dancing, Hispanics, specifically Puerto Ricans were an equal  presence in its New York city origins. 

That's right because that's who lived in the South Bronx. 

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Charlie Chase and Tony Tone were Hispanic. I saw the Cold Crush Brothers and Doctor Jecklyn and Mr Hyde in the mid 80's.

Dr Jecklyn was Andre Harrel. founder of Uptown Records. And one time CEO of Motown Records. Puff was a promoter and worked at Uptown. 

 

 

Screenshot_20190510-055502.jpeg

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7 hours ago, Delano said:

Instead of making snit up you could use the internet. 

 

Here's a newsflash I was there and I also look things up. Since my experience is only a part. But I am not suggesting that you think critically or conceptually. 

 

 

 


Man, how in the world can you sit up there and lecture someone about making shit up when YOU made up lies on both Martin L. King and Malik Shabazz and accused both of them of SLEEPING WITH MEN without providing any proof whatsoever and never even recanted the statement????
 

 


Pull up a chair and let me educated you on a few things:

1. The Turntable that AfroAmerican youth invented in the 70s IS NOT the same thing as the record player Edison ALLEGEDLY (because we don't have too many witnesses confirming it) invented.
For all we know a Black man/woman probably invented that too....lol.

The Turntable is an INSTRUMENT that started off as a normal record player but was transformed into something new and different for DJing purposes and other aspects of Hiphop.

Saying the Turntable is an invention of Edison is like saying the iphone the invention of Alexander Graham Bell......a statement of utter ignorance

 

 


2. Hiphop was INVENTED/FOUNDED/STARTED in the 70s by Anglophone AfroAmerican men named Kool Herc and Afrika Bamabata.

Many Latinos as well as Whites and other groups PARTICIPATED in it during it's early foundations but that's not the same as INVENTING it.
Black people participated in slavery, it doesn't mean the invented it.

And in all actuality Rapping itself before it was officially called that was started by the Last Poets back in the 60s.

And for your FURTHER education, technically speaking even if the Latinos you mentioned were indeed the co-founders of Hiphop that STILL means that it was founded by AFROAMERICANS because most Latinos in New York (Puerto Ricans and Dominicans) are of African descent and guess what???
Both Puerto Rico and the Dominican Republic are part of AMERICA just like Jamaica, Haiti, Mexico, ect....

Either way you slice it, Hiphop was invented/ founded by AFRO-AMERICANS like I said....lol.

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

The Turntable that AfroAmerican youth invented in the 70s IS NOT the same thing as the record player Edison ALLEGEDLY (because we don't have too many witnesses confirming it) invented.
For all we know a Black man/woman probably invented that too....lol.

The Turntable is an INSTRUMENT that started off as a normal record player but was transformed into something new and different for DJing purposes and other aspects of Hiphop.

This is history according to pioneer.   The turn table as it appears in this phonograph is no different in appearance and principle than those used to scratch out accompaniment on  hip hop and rap music using the arm of the phonograph which contained a needle that was  scratched  on a vinyl record to produce the scratching sound.  Do you have a picture of the device you are making reference to?  And the form of communication that is known as an iphone is based on the same principle as a telephone. They both transmit voices via towers  and poles and wires. the iphone is just more advanced.    

 

s-l300.jpg

 

 

 

 

2 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Both Puerto Rico and the Dominican Republic are part of AMERICA just like Jamaica, Haiti, Mexico, ect....
 

 Haiti, Jamaica and Mexico etc not ect  are not part of America.  And nobody said that white people invented rap or hip hop. That's just you trying to  create a straw man argument.

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 Cool Herc used to work in   the record shop two blocks from my home. I heard Melle Mel Lisa Lee. DJ Breakout In Valley Park in the late 70's. There were a bunch of parks that were throwing down. I was at one of them. 

Where were you? 

 

 

 

 

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8 hours ago, Cynique said:

This is history according to pioneer.   The turn table as it appears in this phonograph is no different in appearance and principle than those used to scratch out accompaniment on  hip hop and rap music using the arm of the phonograph which contained a needle that was  scratched  on a vinyl record to produce the scratching sound.  Do you have a picture of the device you are making reference to?  And the form of communication that is known as an iphone is based on the same principle as a telephone. They both transmit voices via towers  and poles and wires. the iphone is just more advanced.    

 

s-l300.jpg

 

 

 

 

 Haiti, Jamaica and Mexico etc not ect  are not part of America.  And nobody said that white people invented rap or hip hop. That's just you trying to  create a straw man argument.

 

 

Are you serious?????


Lol.....even these little kids are laughing at your foolishness!!!!!

 

 

Image result for laughing
 

 

I see Del isn't the only one who needs to be educated.
You need a geography lesson.

And I suppose according to your logic just because  things are "based on the same principles" that means they're the same.....lol.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


Del
 

Cool Herc used to work in   the record shop two blocks from my home. I heard Melle Mel Lisa Lee. DJ Breakout In Valley Park in the late 70's. There were a bunch of parks that were throwing down. I was at one of them. 

Where were you? 

 

Standing at the foot of your bed trying to wake your unconscious ass up....lol.
Obvioulsy you were sleep and not aware of what was going on back then if you want to give the credit to some Puerto Ricans instead of the Anglo speaking Herc, Grand Master Flash, and Afrika.

Listen, before you start giving us your memoir growing up in the BX......why don't you start with TELLING THE TRUTH about who really invented Hiphop since that's the current debate.

 

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

who really invented Hiphop since that's the current debate.

Noone invented it. It was created. Bam! 

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9 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

i see Del isn't the only one who needs to be educated.
You need a geography lesson.

And I suppose according to your logic just because  things are "based on the same principles" that means they're the same.....lol.

 

What a pathetic attempt to obliterate your ignorance.  You are really stupid enough to think that all you have to do is contradict something and that makes it wrong.  And you did this without even bothering to offer facts or information that would prove you right. Haiti is a country located on the island of Hispaniola, east of Cuba in the Greater Antilles archipelago of the Caribbean Sea and covers 27,560 square kilometers of land and 190 square kilometers of water, making it the 149th largest nation in the world with a total area of 27,750 square kilometers. Jamaica is a beautiful island paradise located in the western Caribbean or the West Indies.Kingston is the capital city of Jamaica. It has a population of 937,700, and is located on a latitude of 18 and longitude of -76.79. Kingston is also the political center of Jamaica, which is considered a Constitutional Monarchy, and home to its Ceremonial head of state. The country of Mexico is separated from the United States of America by a border. Your assertion that these distinct independent countries  with their individual cultures are part of the USA does not apply.  just like you can't wrap your brain around the idea that devices that operate on the same principle do not become  different  inventions just because new features are added. 

 

 Anybody with any sense can see that the turn table on  the original phonograph and a later model  popularly known as a record player are virtually same  and are what hip hop deejays used to scratch on.  And Del's reply to your remark about who invented hip hop wherein he informed you that it was created not invented is an example of your not being able to speak on this subject with any more authority than anyone else.  

 

Your personality disorder makes it impossible for you to acknowledge these things because your delusions of infallibility are the glue that holds your fragile self esteem together. 

 

 lp-45_black__1_1024x1024_6e7b9000-9978-49b2-a331-7a2c22c81489_large.jpg?v=1498165563  s-l300.jpg

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7 hours ago, Cynique said:

What a pathetic attempt to obliterate your ignorance.  You are really stupid enough to think that all you have to do is contradict something and that makes it wrong.  And you did this without even bothering to offer facts or information that would prove you right. Haiti is a country located on the island of Hispaniola, east of Cuba in the Greater Antilles archipelago of the Caribbean Sea and covers 27,560 square kilometers of land and 190 square kilometers of water, making it the 149th largest nation in the world with a total area of 27,750 square kilometers. Jamaica is a beautiful island paradise located in the western Caribbean or the West Indies.Kingston is the capital city of Jamaica. It has a population of 937,700, and is located on a latitude of 18 and longitude of -76.79. Kingston is also the political center of Jamaica, which is considered a Constitutional Monarchy, and home to its Ceremonial head of state. The country of Mexico is separated from the United States of America by a border. Your assertion that these distinct independent countries  with their individual cultures are part of the USA does not apply.  just like you can't wrap your brain around the idea that devices that operate on the same principle do not become  different  inventions just because new features are added. 

 

 Anybody with any sense can see that the turn table on  the original phonograph and a later model  popularly known as a record player are virtually same  and are what hip hop deejays used to scratch on.  And Del's reply to your remark about who invented hip hop wherein he informed you that it was created not invented is an example of your not being able to speak on this subject with any more authority than anyone else.  

 

Your personality disorder makes it impossible for you to acknowledge these things because your delusions of infallibility are the glue that holds your fragile self esteem together. 

 

 lp-45_black__1_1024x1024_6e7b9000-9978-49b2-a331-7a2c22c81489_large.jpg?v=1498165563  s-l300.jpg

 

 

:rolleyes:Yep....spittin' image of each other, lol.

Why....I saw a DJ using the good ole phonograph on the right just a few days ago mixing it up at the club LOL.

I wonder did Edison "invent/create" the headphones most DJs use to go with it also?????


BTW....exactly WHEN did I say those nations were part of the "USA"?????
I don't recall saying that.
I said they were part of AMERICA, not the USA.






 

Mel

Where are you???????

You've been sitting mighty quiet over there......lol.

Why don't YOU go ahead and back up your girl Cynique????

You agree with her that those nations I mentioned are NOT part of America don't you?

Right?????

Go on ahead and show your girl some support.....lol.

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@Pioneer1Do you even know what a turn table is? The round device that is a component of a phonograph and that spins  around and  is where  a grooved  disc is placed on??   The two pictured are just alike.  They are  simply packaged differently. 

 

And just what is the relevance of your referring to Jamaica and Haiti and Mexico as part of the Americas?  What does this have to do with hip-hop  and rap originating in the city of New York in the United States of America, especially since nobody said the that these genres  originated elsewhere and were created by white people.  Why make Mel do your work for you?  You can't concoct  an answer yourself, just like you couldn't truthfully verbalize  whether you ever lived around Atlanta or Chicago, and couldn't find any reference to what you imagined i said about farmers and the depression  so you  just stall. What a transparent phony you are.  LOL 

 

BTW, headphones were invented waay before hip hop and rap came on the scene. 

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17 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Why don't YOU go ahead and back up your girl Cynique????

 

@Pioneer1 between @Cynique  handling you with facts and @Del beating you with first hand experience... do you really want me to mix it up with you too? Lol!  

 

But don’t think I didn’t see you trying to use the ole “continent”  defense  to support your argument. 🙄

Edited by Mel Hopkins
typos
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After reading several polls on Twitter, this week apparently a full- body wash is part of the african American culture.  It appears washing legs is optional for those of European descent.  Further, some from the medical profession agree  that vigorous leg washing removes the oils - hence our “ashy” legs.  Also “wash cloths” appear to be an African American item.  I must research the origin.  I know first hand whenever I traveled to Peru , Italy, Brazil and I think Argentina too I packed my own wash cloths because the hotels there only provided towels.  When I went into the “black” section of Lima I was able to stock up on wash cloths there. But none in Miraflores. I could only conclude that wash cloths are used in the African Diaspora 😄

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3 hours ago, Mel Hopkins said:

Also “wash cloths” appear to be an African American item.

 

Now this was news to me until a month ago. I had a couple stay with me for a few days last month. I laid out towels, one of those hands towels, and a wash cloth. The woman (Black) told me her husband (white) does not use a wash cloth. She said "white people don't use wash cloths." I thought that statements was odd, but I just put the wash cloth away and kept it moving.

 

I've been to a number of white countries and cities and was always provided a wash cloth. I've also stayed on white homes and was always provided wash cloths.

 

White people not using wash cloths sounds like an urban legend to me. 

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41 minutes ago, Troy said:

I've been to a number of white countries and cities and was always provided a wash cloth. I've also stayed on white homes and was always provided wash cloths.


I, I, I, .... LOL   Use your search engine - I just did and bing returned washcloths are rare in Europe...

Now I've never stayed with families or hostels when traveling the five continents ... but I'd imagined they would accommodate their guests with known amenities. 

However, for 8 years. I've only stayed at 4/5 star hotels in the five countries I've mentioned(I left out Belgium). AND they didn't have washcloths nor had a word that actually translated into washcloths.  Any LEGACY CARRIER  flight attendant will tell you bring your wash cloth if you use one.  

Note: German hotels had washcloths but they also have a U.S. Military bases so maybe the brothers/sisters hipped them lol...

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11 hours ago, Mel Hopkins said:

 

@Pioneer1 between @Cynique  handling you with facts and @Del beating you with first hand experience... do you really want me to mix it up with you too? Lol!  

 

But don’t think I didn’t see you trying to use the ole “continent”  defense  to support your argument. 🙄


Wow...lol.
I'm actually a bit surprised that you consider what she said factual.
I didn't actually expect for you to side with ME against Cynique on this or anything else....lol....but as much as you've been around I thought YOU knew better and would have just said nothing; but to consider it "fact"??

Del may have been relating his first hand experience but his experiences are irrelevant to his argument because none of those he's related have proven me wrong.
His telling me about what he was doing in the 70s has no bearing on who invented/create/made/whipped up/molded together/conjured up Hiphop and the elements of it like Break Dancing, MC'ing, and the Turntable which I maintain CAME FROM AfroAmericans and so far his so-called experiences haven't proven otherwise.




 

Troy


White people not using wash cloths sounds like an urban legend to me.


It's no urban legend, it's quite true for a large group of White people.

Having worked in an extended stay residence as well as a couple fitness centers I can attest to the fact that most White people don't.
But the strange thing is most White people in the South DO while most White people from the North and West Coast as well as from Europe don't.

I'm not sure why, but this is what I've noticed.

Another thing is most White women wash their hair in the shower while most Black women don't.....lol.

BTW....I started a thread with a question in it for you:

https://aalbc.com/tc/topic/5855-calling-professor-johnson-what-is-america/

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4 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Del may have been relating his first hand experience but his experiences are irrelevant to his argument because none of those he's related have proven me wrong.

No one will ever prove you wrong. 

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@Mel Hopkins I'm perfectly fine relating my personal experiences when giving my opinion. I was not trying to "prove" anything. At least three of us, including yourself, have presented anecdotes both supporting and not supporting the "white folks washcloth theory." While is may not rise to that of urban legend it is obviously not universally true, which is why I did not bother searching for it. 

 

 

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On 5/6/2019 at 9:22 PM, Pioneer1 said:

but they aren't TRULY indigenous to North Africa.

 

@Pioneer1 What!?

 

On 5/6/2019 at 9:22 PM, Pioneer1 said:

hey...like other so-called "Berber" tribes are actually a mixed group who are the descendants of the Caucasians

 

okay. Tecnically, when you say 'descendants of Caucasians'-- being the origin of Caucasians-- I say yes. But your definition of Caucasians is the problem.

On 5/7/2019 at 9:14 AM, Mel Hopkins said:

 As for the Tuareg tribes, their history reveals they are indigenous to Africa -  but this brings us back to appropriation . 

 

@Mel Hopkins Thank you!

On 5/7/2019 at 9:07 PM, Pioneer1 said:

When it becomes the dominant form of family structure in a given community (which it has in the AfroAmerican community) then it INDEED qualifies as being systemic.
The AfroAmerican community today is officially a MATRIARCHY in which the average or typical family is governed by the mother.

 

@Pioneer1 Interesting! You know, I think it is a mixture of both! I agree in what @Mel Hopkins is saying though, in that it is a matter of survival and to some extent has nothing to do with Matriarchy. 

 

However, the system you describe was started during slaver times and still is exploited today.

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16 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

I'm actually a bit surprised that you consider what she said factual.
I didn't actually expect for you to side with ME against Cynique on this or anything else....lol....but as much as you've been around I thought YOU knew better and would have just said nothing; but to consider it "fact"??

 in lecturing Mel on this, why don't you get specific and give quotes that can be attributed to me as not being factual. Below is a direct quote from me:

"Haiti is a country located on the island of Hispaniola, east of Cuba in the Greater Antilles archipelago of the Caribbean Sea and covers 27,560 square kilometers of land and 190 square kilometers of water, making it the 149th largest nation in the world with a total area of 27,750 square kilometers. Jamaica is a beautiful island paradise located in the western Caribbean or the West Indies.Kingston is the capital city of Jamaica. It has a population of 937,700, and is located on a latitude of 18 and longitude of -76.79. Kingston is also the political center of Jamaica, which is considered a Constitutional Monarchy, and home to its Ceremonial head of state. The country of Mexico is separated from the United States of America by a border. Your assertion that these distinct independent countries  with their individual cultures are part of the USA does not apply. " 

 

The only non factual thing about that quote is that you didn't say that these countries were part of the United States of America. OK.   And in the following statement  below, I did refer to them as  being "Americas" - as in the broad sense of the word as it applies to continental America. 

On 5/10/2019 at 9:16 PM, Cynique said:

And just what is the relevance of your referring to Jamaica and Haiti and Mexico as part of the Americas?  What does this have to do with hip-hop  and rap originating in the city of New York in the United States of America, especially since nobody said the that these genres  originated elsewhere and were created by white people.

And,  i still question what whether Haiti, Jamaica and Mexico are a part of greater America or not has to do with the subject being discussed, a question you continue to dodge. 

 

16 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

...telling me about what he was doing in the 70s has no bearing on who invented/create/made/whipped up/molded together/conjured up Hiphop and the elements of it like Break Dancing, MC'ing, and the Turntable which I maintain CAME FROM AfroAmericans and so far his so-called experiences haven't proven otherwise.


In the above statement about Del, your "maintaining" that the turntable came from AfroAmericans has not been proven right by you.   Using your twisted logic, Charlie Parker invented the saxophone because he played Be-Bop on it, or Scott Joplin invented the piano because he played Ragtime on it.   This whole debate is much ado about nothing because everybody agreed that Rap, Hip-Hop, Break-dancing and turntable MCing were originated by people of color.  You just had to pollute the discussion with your silly rejection of white Thomas Edison being the inventor of the turntable, and your ignorance about who invented headphones. And in the end, you haven't proved yourself anymore knowledgeable on this subject than anyone else.  At least Del's input is not second hand.  Nor was mine.  I grew up in a household where, dating back to the 1940s, my brother always had phonographs and records players  equipped with turn tables.  

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@Del  I followed your advice about looking things up on the interet and this is what i found about headphones.  Of course there are those who will dispute this  and claim they orginated with hip-hoppers and rappers.

220px-Brandes_Superior_Matched_Tone_c._1
 
Brandes radio headphones, circa 1920

Headphones originated from the telephone receiver earpiece, and were the only way to listen to electrical audio signals before amplifiers were developed. The first truly successful set was developed in 1910 by Nathaniel Baldwin, who made them by hand in his kitchen and sold them to the United States Navy

 

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After pondering the argument and upon further research I now realize I was indeed wrong.

I now realize that the phonograph in it's entirety wasn't the turn table but that the "turn table" was an earlier name of the COMPONENT of the phonograph that actually spins the record.

Although I knew the turn tables DJ's use was based on this and was a highly modified form of it, I didn't know it was actually called this BEFORE the Hiphop era.

However I still believe that Break Dancing and MC'ing (as we know it in Hiphop) was born from AfroAmerican youth.

But as it "turns" out.....lol....the turn table as it is named was clearly in existence.

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On 5/14/2019 at 11:34 AM, Pioneer1 said:

Although I knew the turn tables DJ's use was based on this and was a highly modified form of it, I didn't know it was actually called this BEFORE the Hiphop era.

The turn table,  a speaker,  an "arm" that a needle is screwed  into are what comprise a phonograph or record player.  They all work together to produce sound. They were not "highly modified" in the ensuing years.  There was no need to change them.  Whatever music or sound was produced was what changed, not the equipment.  CD and tapes were the different ways of producing sounds  

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8 hours ago, Cynique said:

The turn table,  a speaker,  an "arm" that a needle is screwed  into are what comprise a phonograph or record player.  They all work together to produce sound. They were not highly modified in the ensuing years.  There was no need to change them.  Whatever music or sound was produced was what changed, not the equipment.  CD and tapes were the different ways of producing sounds  


Why THANK YOU dear!

And I will BE SURE to recommend that this bit of knowledge you're sharing with us be included in the revised edition of:

Image result for book of useless information
 

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9 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

I was indeed wrong.

 

What! I'm playing 774 (pioneer's community reputation number) straight tomorrow.

 

I did not know the Earth was the only planet not named after a God 🌍

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1 hour ago, Pioneer1 said:

And I will BE SURE to recommend that this bit of knowledge you're sharing with us be included in the revised edition of:

Thank you.  Now stfu.

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@Delano why are you are so anxious to point out when someone else is wrong.  Please tell me why what I wrote that was wrong or "kinda wrong."

 

Did you read the title of the book that Pioneer posted? Did you comprehend the statement I made in reaction to it?

 

Would you like to change you mind?

 

 

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I don't even want to change your mind. 

 

Do the letters I type look anxious. @Troy

6 hours ago, Delano said:

You guys are kind of wrong.

@Pioneer1

@Troy

 

6 hours ago, Delano said:
  8 hours ago, Troy said:

did not know the Earth was the only planet not named after a God

 

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22 hours ago, Cynique said:

Thank you.  Now stfu.


Listen, what's wrong with you?
Why you gotta act all ghetto and savage in Mel's' thread?

Now here we all are having an intelligent conversation about AfroAmerican culture and YOU had to ruin it.....lol.
Get your emotions together.

 

Anyway......

 

 


That delicious food made with cornbread is called  DRESSING instead of STUFFING is another part of AfroAmerican culture that it especially brought to my attention around the holidays.

And when I was a kid almost every Black family I knew around the entire city and even down South put GIZZARDS in their dressing.


 

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