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Pioneer1

Black men are too sexist.

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It felt good arguing in FAVOR of a position I'm actually against, so I decided to take up another one.
I'm not a feminist, but I'll attempt.....for argument's sake....to take the position of Black feminists or womanists and say that Black men are just too sexist.




When it comes to sisters wearing their hair naturally, the greatest opposition Black women face doesn't come from White men in the work place who usually know better than to make a comment.....but from Black men at home and in the community who often times don't want to date a "natural" woman and are often very blunt about making this known.

I've also noticed that the only time most Black men are willing to stay at home and help do the dishes, clean the house, and watch the children is when he's UNEMPLOYED and doesn't have much of a choice.....outside of that, most brothers grow up thinking it's the woman's job to do this instead of a shared responsibility.

Finally we have Jay-Z
.....a Black rapper (among thousands of others) has MADE A LIVING  calling women bitches and ho's and bragging about how he has sex with them and uses them and even proudly refers to himself as "pimp".
His reward for this near lifetime of misogynistic behavior is his recently being crowned raps first BILLIONAIRE.

 



Can not Black men see that many of them are (and have been since before the ending of slavery)  treating Black women with the same contempt and disrespect that they so furiously condemn Whites, Asians, and others for showing them?


Lauryn Hill once famously said:  How you gonna win if you ain't right within?

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I recently recommended a book that might help explain why Black women catch hell in the U.S.  Here the authors talk to Rock Newman about the book:

 

 

I believe we have been treated so poorly so long we carry our disfunction in our genes.

 

I'm in St. Thomas USVI as I write this and the sisters are kicking butt here -- running thangs! 

 

Mainland Americans may be a bit defective... some more than others. Any perceived sexism by men here is a function of the oppression or being the oppressor. 

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Are there a lot of stores run by Arabs and Puerto Ricans?

Currently reading a biography of James Baldwin. 

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I'm not sure if I made myself clear but I'm actually looking for OPPOSITION to my argument that accuses Black men of being sexist.
If I don't get enough counter-argument in this thread I'll do another one in SUPPORT of Donald Trump.




Troy



I'm in St. Thomas USVI as I write this and the sisters are kicking butt here -- running thangs!


Boy I'll tell ya, for a BROKE brutha you sho' do get around...lol



Mainland Americans may be a bit defective... some more than others. Any perceived sexism by men here is a function of the oppression or being the oppressor.


Perhaps, or maybe that's just an EXCUSE men use to justify and continue to practice their sexism even after they have been made aware of it.

We've heard the same excuses about crime.
-that crime in our community was a bi-product of oppression and economic deprivation,  but every individual has a CHOICE.
The soft-shoe sexism as well as the outright physical abuse that Black men have historically exhibited against Black women in the States as well as in the Carribean is not rooted in THEIR oppression so much as it's rooted in THEIR misplaced agression, substance abuse, and general miseducation about gender roles and what being a "man" means....whatever it means.

Speaking of Black women in the Virgin Islands, one thing we know is happening down there as well as in other Carribean communities like Jamaica and Barbados is that many of the Black women are suffering from the negative health effects of using bleaching cream and hair relaxers.

Why?

Because most of the men in those societies have told them in so many words that to be seen as beautiful or to even be NOTICED you must make yourself look as much like a white woman as you can even if it literally KILLS you.

 

 

 

 

Del

 

Are there a lot of stores run by Arabs and Puerto Ricans?


Speaking as a feminist.......
What difference does the ethnicity of these store owners make if they are providing much needed commodities and services to women and children that many local Black men are unwilling or unable to provide?


*That was a good question you asked Troy btw.
I would have asked him the same question myself because I heard Arabs are running a lot of businesses down in the Carribean.....but I'm not my usual self right now.
I'm a feminist...lol.

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On 6/3/2019 at 9:49 PM, Pioneer1 said:

When it comes to sisters wearing their hair naturally, the greatest opposition Black women face doesn't come from White men in the work place who usually know better than to make a comment.....but from Black men at home and in the community who often times don't want to date a "natural" woman and are often very blunt about making this known.

 

Oh yes, I have experienced this!! @Pioneer1

 

On 6/4/2019 at 2:27 PM, Troy said:

Mainland Americans may be a bit defective... some more than others. Any perceived sexism by men here is a function of the oppression or being the oppressor. 

 

@Troy This is an interesting comment especially in lieu of the video!!! 

I loved watching the video though, it was very good! I applaud the authors. Side note; The White woman reminds me so much of Ertha KItts daughter!

At any rate, one of the most profound statements made was by the narrator of the video in how, before he went into depth about his mother, daughter and the FANCY LADIES, he mentioned his first love. He spoke about his first love being a very dark chocolate beauty and how we are today hearing stories from light skinned people and then after he made this statement, well, the conversation was mostly about WHITE, BIRACIAL OR LIGHT SKINNED SLAVES!!!

 

The authors also spoke about this too, when they mentioned a woman that somehow learned how to write and expressed the horror of the man who fathered her children putting her and her children up for sale! It was said that because of the few Slave Narratives, these stories account for the many other stories that are not told!

 

And then they spoke about Thomas Jefferson and later towards the end they spoke about Frederick Douglass in a positive aspect [of which I do NOT agree!].

 

fRederick Douglass later said that he was 'A HITTITE' and he speaks about his father, the slave master. Also, he greatly disrespected the Black wife he married and who helped him become free. He had illicit sexual relationships with White women in the house with his BLack wife in the house. And, the Black community became divided and some would not even go to his house! I read his books and was amazed at how he shifted his position and beliefs. The famous William Lloyd Garrison even became frustrated with Douglass. 

 

So, imo, the conversation about slavery was more about WHITE SLAVERY and I feel that this is a vital subject though, because it helps to bridge a gap and may better lead to the earlier experiences that the AFrican Slaves have not been able to voice. I think that the concept of WHITE SLAVERY needs to be better defined in that many of these White Slaves are descendants of Black and AFrican people and etc. and this definition has not been made clear. I feel tht many Black people have been made to believe that White Slavery has nothing to do with a connection to BLack and AFrican oppression but IMO, it does. 

 

Thomas Jefferson is indeed a perfect person to highlight this phenomenon of 'White SLavery' and the lineage of the woman Sally is a perfect description of a White Slave. Her ancestor was a Black AFrican woman enslaved by a White ship captain. By the time that Sally was born though, the AFrican 'Phenotype' had been watered down!!! And the future descendants of this Black slave woman look completely European and Caucasian today! You would never realize they stem from Black AFrica unless you researched this story. 

 

Thomas Jefferson practiced COLORISM on his slave plantation and the darker slaves lived down the mountain while the 'White Slaves' were allowed to live near to the big house and work in better 'slave jobs' and etc.

 

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On 6/4/2019 at 9:10 PM, Pioneer1 said:

Boy I'll tell ya, for a BROKE brutha you sho' do get around...lol

 

One does not aways need money ti travel. I had a gracious and generous host and one of my kids works for an airline.

 

On 6/4/2019 at 9:10 PM, Pioneer1 said:


Speaking of Black women in the Virgin Islands, one thing we know is happening down there as well as in other Carribean communities like Jamaica and Barbados is that many of the Black women are suffering from the negative health effects of using bleaching cream and hair relaxers.

 

I've been to all three places in recent years and have seen zero evidence if this. St. Thomas is about half the size of Brooklyn and I was all over the territory so im pretty confident this is not the case.

 

On 6/4/2019 at 7:42 PM, Delano said:

Are there a lot of stores run by Arabs and Puerto Ricans?

 

I don't know. But many of the businesses i visited were run/owned by a variety of people including Europeans. A gas station was pointed out to me as geing owned by a Bkack woman. I wonder how many Black women own gas stations in the U.S. 

 

On 6/8/2019 at 6:36 PM, Chevdove said:

The authors also spoke about this too, when they mentioned a woman that somehow learned how to write and expressed the horror of the man who fathered her children putting her and her children up for sale!

 

I agree. Can you imagine? These monsters knowingly sold their own children into the hell of slavery! Imagine that mother's anguish on top of the misery she had already endured.

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On 6/9/2019 at 9:59 PM, Troy said:

I agree. Can you imagine? These monsters knowingly sold their own children into the hell of slavery! Imagine that mother's anguish on top of the misery she had already endured.

 

Yes, for me, the hard part is accepting that this was the NORM! Especially for the darker skinned females and continually, this was the norm.

But also, for me, I feel that this sort of thing still happens today in a certain degree, but it happens in such a way that we don't really recognize it.

 

And, just like many of us may not recognize how, as these authors show, slavery affected many White people caught up in the ill affects of Colorism and Slavery too, however, it was not on the level that it affected darker skinned African-type people, but still, many of them were hurt too. 

 

I cannot equate my experiences to the account of that slave woman mentioned in the video having her own children and herself being sold by their own father and the man that fathered her children, but I know what it feels like to be abruptly ripped away from your children by this American legal system!--only to be proven 3 years later, after much damage has been done, that the courts had to acknowledge that it was wrong! ... Nevertheless, as in the past, AMerican offers no adequate restitution for this sort of Human Sacrifice.

 

This story reminds me of a movie starring one of my favorite actresses, Jane Seymoure, who played the role of Fannie Kemble, and it was about a White woman who came from Britain and married a White man who was a slave owner. Her husband later, took her young daughters from her in a divorce settlement, and she was not reunited with them until they werer both 21 years old! --DAMAGE DONE! 

 

Nevertheless, after reading more about FAnnie Kemble from an author(s) Catherine Clinton and Deirdre David, and learing how Fannie Kemble too, had racist sentiments and wrote about Black slaves; She described "Blacks slaves as stupid, lazzy, filthy, as well as finding them ugly...". * Nevertheless, the references also says that "she was in opposition to slavery and outrage at its cruelties." These 'Love-Hate' conflicts that go on amongst White people, IMO, would be part of the reason why African Americans will never understand the full impact of slavery unless we learn more about what really happened during these times from other aspects as well as from well meaning White authors.

 

14321.jpg

 

*http://www.upenn.edu/pennpress/book/14321.html

 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fanny_Kemble

 

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Guest FAS

Thomas Jefferson and Sally Hemmings' descendants don't look white. The descendant shown below (with a descendant of the white side of the family) even stated that his ancestor, Thomas Jefferson was a rapist:

 

 

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Gail said they don't look like each other -- shoot they both look like each other and Thomas Jefferson :-)

 

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Troy


I've been to all three places in recent years and have seen zero evidence if this. St. Thomas is about half the size of Brooklyn and I was all over the territory so im pretty confident this is not the case.


Ok, then I stand corrected.
I've heard this was the case all over the Caribbean but if you say you haven't seen any evidence of this in your experiences then I'll accept it until proven otherwise.


I know that Gail King is sexy as hell....lol.
If you're in the market for somebody (and she's got SOME body).....you ain't gotta fly all the way down to the Islands, just send a few emails to Gail King and get your mack on!

If she didn't mind hooking up with an ex-dope pusher like 50 Cent she SHOULDN'T mind giving a book-pusher a chance....lol.

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2 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

I've heard this was the case all over the Caribbean but if you say you haven't seen any evidence of this in your experiences then I'll accept it until proven otherwise.

 

OK, who is this and what did you do with Pioneer?

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18 hours ago, Troy said:

 

OK, who is this and what did you do with Pioneer?


He temporarily turned into a Black feminist/womanist for this thread only.

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Now if Cynique was still around you know you would never have done that.

 

You even "liking" things now. What gives?

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On 6/11/2019 at 8:01 PM, Guest FAS said:

Thomas Jefferson and Sally Hemmings' descendants don't look white. The descendant shown below (with a descendant of the white side of the family) ...

 

Thomas Jefferson and Sally Hemmings' descendants don't look white???

This is a reference of two descendants that I had read about of Thomas Jefferson and

Sally Hemings; THIS IS ESTON HEMINGS JEFFERSON who was born a slave-- 

May 21, 1808-January 3, 1856. I also read that some of these descendants were split and some chose to 'PASS FOR WHITE' and later lived as White European-Americans among White society.

Colonel_John_Wayles_Jefferson.gif

ESTON HEMINGS JEFFERSON (May 21, 1808 – January 3, 1856) was born a slave at Monticello, the youngest son of Sally Hemings,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eston_Hemings 

 

Also, here is another one; John Wayles Jefferson-- a grandson of Thomas Jefferson and Sally Hemings.

Screen_Shot_2018-06-22_at_9.42.13_AM_t75

 

So, while it would seem obvious to me that Sally Hemings descendants intermixed with BLack people and today, reflect this, as it has been written about, however, this story also shows the issues of Colorism that has caused darker skinned Black people's stories to be suppressed. ONe point that I thought I highlighted int his story was about The Black AFrican ancestor of Sally Hemings that became enslaved by the ship captain. The fact that these two White men are descendants of a Black AFrican enslaved woman is what is being suppressed, not the light skinned descendants that you posted in the video(s). Nevertheless, as I stated, we need to know those stories too, and we need to know about White Slavery, but in how it is directly connected to BLack African Slavery. The son Sally Hemings and Thomas Jefferson was BORN IN SLAVERY!!!

 

Thank you so much for posting!

 

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Guest FAS

 

"By the time that Sally was born though, the AFrican 'Phenotype' had been watered down!!! And the future descendants of this Black slave woman look completely European and Caucasian today! You would never realize they stem from Black AFrica unless you researched this story.  "

 

More of Sally Hemmings descendents TODAY:

 

 

 

 

 

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"More of Sally Hemmings descendents TODAY:"

 

TWO THUMBS UP!-- FAS.

 

I've seen the first video but the second one you posted says it all! This a balanced account of the history of Thomas Jefferson and Sally Hemmings. WOW!

You know, this subject reminds me of a time when after I had graduated from college and one day while I was driving and listening to the radio; I heard the announcer say that the 1st president, George Washington had slaves... I was completely stunned! 

 

Eventhough I graduated from an HBCU, I had never heard of that! --I was never formally taught in public school or college that after July 4, 1776, some of the founding fathers had slaves. That sounded so strange to me. LOL. But since then, I have seen talk shows and read books that featured some of the descendants of George Washington. 

 

After you posted too, I clicked and viewed some other interesting videos on this subject. Again, thank you for your post! 

 

Why did some of Sally Hemings's children identify themselves as white and others as black

 

 

 

 

Getting Word: African American Families of Monticello

 

 

 

On Reflection now, I am thinking maybe the title of this thread should not only be 'Black Men are too sexist' but instead, Some men are too sexist! 

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On 6/16/2019 at 6:39 PM, Pioneer1 said:

Those people could PASS for White because they WERE White....lol.

 

@Pioneer1 Funny! But the points brought out in this thread is, IMO, very suspicious on the part of the promotion of the tourism due to the recently renovated room of Sally Hemings!

 

From what I have seen in this thread is that some of the 'Black' descendants of Sally Hemings are being supported to put out confusion! Some of the statements offer a 'convenient suggestion' in that slavery was 'not all that bad'!--regarding Thomas Jefferson! But in reality he was awful and he supported Colorism.

 

Sally Hemings 'slave ancestor', SUSANNA was the beginning of this saga, here in AMerica. And from what I read, the name 'Hemings' acutually belong to the very slave ship captain that enslaved her. She was later given to another White slave master and so, this is a quote:

 

The biracial children of Betty Hemings by Wayles were three-quarters European in ancestry and very fair-skinned. They had a white maternal grandfather and two white paternal grandparents. ... Elizabeth “Betty” and her children, including Sally Hemings, and all their children, were legally slaves, although the fathers were the white masters and the children were majority-white in ancestry. [21]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sally_Hemings

 

So Susanna Hemings was given to a White slave master named Epps, therefore she became Susanna Epps, however, her later descendants used the name 'Hemings'.

Susanna Hemings then was given to another White slave master named Wales and so, I guess her name became Susanna Wales. Susanna had a daughter named 

Elizabeth 'Betty' and this Betty had six children by the White slave master Wales. 

Then Betty Wales became the slave of Wales daughter [Betty's technical half-sister] and Thomas Jefferson. 

Therefore her name would have been Betty Jefferson, but she kept the name Hemings.

Then Thomas Jefferson took Betty's daughter, Sally, the youngest... 

 

So it seems to me like Sally's youngest son's photograph, Eston Hemings shows, he was definitely White but it seems obvious that the presence of many other descendants that are 'Black' that this too is truth. 

 

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If I were descended from Thomas Jefferson I doubt I'd take too much pride in that fact.  I would want to know, but it would not be something I celebrated.  Just because my ancestor's rapist was a president of the united states makes no difference...

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Pioneer did you see the video GUEST FAS posted. The white guy does look very wealthy. It does not look like there was a great deal of wealth transfer through the generations

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