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Delano

why-facts-dont-change-minds

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Technically, your perception of the world is a hallucination. Every living being perceives the world differently and creates its own “hallucination” of reality

 

https://jamesclear.com/why-facts-dont-change-minds

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Troy may be inclined to agree with most of these statements (found in the title as well as the 1st post) made but I disagree with key aspects of them.


1. Perception isn't necessarily a "hallucination".
Traditionally speaking, a "hallucination" is an image or sound that a person can perceive that no others around him can.
If most of the people in your environment can also observe it then it's not a hallucination.

2. Perception is a PERSPECTIVE.
It's a WAY OF seeing something or someone that other people can see as well.
Other's may have a DIFFERENT perception than you but they and you are still observing the same thing.

You're on the porch and you both SEE and HEAR a man bouncing a basket ball down the street.
Another person inside the house who may not be looking outside the window at the time can HEAR him but not see him.
Another person looking out the window with earplugs in their ears may SEE him bouncing the ball but don't hear it.

None of you are hallucinating because you are all observing the SAME reality but from different perspectives.


Now to the statement that "facts don't change minds".......


This statement isn't entirely correct.
It's true for SOME MINDS and for other minds it's false.

I'm not going to go into James Clear's article but I'll just focus on the statement itself.
It's been my observation that one of the major reasons information offered as "facts" don't change the minds of many people is because what is being called "facts" is often just mere INFORMATION printed up up paper and presented to them by people with an agenda and that mere INFORMATION often times not only goes against their established beliefs but also against their PERSONAL EXPERIENCES AND OBSERVATIONS.

You can present "facts" that Americans are healthier and living longer today than they were in the past all you want, but a 70 year old man who WITNESSED an era where as a child he didn't see nearly the amount of sick people he's seeing today AND he routinely saw people who claimed to be 110 and 120 years old walking up and down the old dusty roads of his home town while the oldest person in America today is said to be only 114  -will not believe these so-called "facts" because they don't agree with his personal observations.

I'm amazed at how many people insist that simply offering others data or information should be enough to just "change their minds" about life.

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9 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

I'm amazed at how many people insist that simply offering others data or information should be enough to just "change their minds" about life.

That makes one of us.

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16 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

I'm not going to go into James Clear's article but I'll just focus on the statement itself.

 

This is unfortunate for the article is interesting, supports the subject of the post quite well, but has nothing to do with Del's statement about perception being a hallucination.

 

@Delano when you posted the link to the article it gives the impression that it supports your view of perception. 

 

@Pioneer1 if actually read the article much of your argument will be addressed. Of course previous experience tells me your views will not be altered in the slightest. The following quote, taken from the article, explains why;

 

“Faced with a choice between changing one’s mind and proving there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy with the proof.”

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5 hours ago, Troy said:

This is unfortunate for the article is interesting, supports the subject of the post quite well, but has nothing to do with Del's statement about perception being a hallucination.

It was the first footnote . @Troy

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Del you left off most of the footnote:

 

But I would say most of us have a “reasonably accurate” model of the actual physical reality of the universe. For example, when you drive down the road, you do not have full access to every aspect of reality, but your perception is accurate enough that you can avoid other cars and conduct the trip safely.

 

That is a significant "but," which you deliberately left off.

 

Still it has little signifance to the thesis of the article, which is why it was relegated to the footnotes. 

 

It is interesting to see how you positioned the article.

 

@Pioneer1's argument, as a result, is founded upon a baseless connection. 

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Troy and Del

I think you know by now that I don't put the same trust in or value on the opinions and observations of Caucasians that you two do, so what he has to say or his explaination for why some people do this or that isn't even important enough for me to read.

I'm addressing the statement Del made in the title of this thread as a matter of concept regardless as to his intentions.

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56 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said:

I think you know by now that I don't put the same trust in or value on the opinions and observations of Caucasians that you two do...

 

Oh brother.

 

Pioneer, if that were true why do I reject every word that emerges from Zuckerberg's pie hole.

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On 7/6/2019 at 8:18 PM, Pioneer1 said:

It's been my observation that one of the major reasons information offered as "facts" don't change the minds of many people is because what is being called "facts" is often just mere INFORMATION printed up up paper and presented to them by people with an agenda and that mere INFORMATION often times not only goes against their established beliefs but also against their PERSONAL EXPERIENCES AND OBSERVATIONS.

 

I’m in agreement with you @Pioneer1 !

 

And I used to subscribe to  James Clear too - but then  I thought his perspective is no better than mine - and in fact, mine is far superior to his when the topic concerns MY life. 

 

Lately, I’ve been thinking a lot about “facts” - and insisting something subjective is a “fact” does a lot of damage to those it seeks to subjugate.  

 

Case-in-point, I was having a discussion with someone about foreclosures and homes up for auction. The person said you have to pay auction.com $100 to see the property. Well, that’s not exactly “fact”  Now it is a fact that auction dot com charges a fee BUT that’s not the whole story.  You can see the house for free - if the former homeowner , the one going through foreclosure let’s you in.  Because chances are they are still living there!  Also it’s a fact that you can buy the property at auction. You don’t even need auctiondotcom in Essex County for example, because the sheriff handles the sale. 

 But it’s also fact that you could save yourself aggravation and wait until the bank takes possession. You can buy it from them with financing and for less than you’d pay at auction. 

 

All this to say, ask yourself who do the facts benefit? Then you’ll understand why they don’t change minds. And in some cases rightfully so! 

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In this case those "facts" were lies or misrepresentations at best. Like any altruism Jeff Bezos expresses.

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Troy
 

Pioneer, if that were true why do I reject every word that emerges from Zuckerberg's pie hole.


Because you see him and his opinions as highly important enough TO consider and then reject and argue against.

If you didn't you wouldn't waste energy concerning yourself with what he has to say.
Lol....like I don't.



 

 


Mel

I’m in agreement with you

Well it's about time....lol.


 

The person said you have to pay auction.com $100 to see the property. Well, that’s not exactly "fact" Now it is a fact that auction dot com charges a fee BUT that’s not the whole story. You can see the house for free - if the former homeowner , the one going through foreclosure let’s you in.


What that person said was not a fact because as you pointed out they didn't specify the particular method in which one could view the said property which would lead one to believe that the ONLY way a person can view it is by going through "auction.com" and giving them money.
But your example is just one illustration of the point I've been making about much of the so-called "facts" and science in Western society in general.
Much of it is based on deception by OMISSION.

Instead of outright lying they often times tell half-truths and omit certain key details to mislead and misguide the public and sway their beliefs.

 


But it’s also fact that you could save yourself aggravation and wait until the bank takes possession. You can buy it from them with financing and for less than you’d pay at auction.


The problem with buying seized property from banks is that many of them have brokers who have already made deals with realtors and investors they're connected with whom they routinely give a heads up to which properties are about to be foreclosed on and so there is usually already an investor or realtor waiting lined up for that particular property before the ink finishes drying on the county's paperwork.

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@Pioneer1 lol!  I can’t believe it!  BUT on this topic - we are in agreement! And every day through the news it’s being revealed how folks and their halftruths have been cheating all these years.  Btw Harvey Weinstein’s criminal trial is in September but he fired his legal team - I guess to get another adjournment. 🤷🏽‍♀️

18 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

The problem with buying seized property from banks is that many of them have brokers who have already made deals with realtors and investors they're connected with whom they routinely give a heads up to which properties are about to be foreclosed on and so there is usually already an investor or realtor waiting lined up for that particular property before the ink finishes drying on the county's paperwork.

 

Except in Essex County (New Jersey)!  The Sheriff sells foreclosed  property.  - The courts notifies the sheriff of the status of the court cases - and the sheriff post it on the sheriff’s website. Auctions are every Tuesday.  - and unless the foreclosure case is continued anyone can bid.  But if folks aren’t already following the foreclosure in the courts - they  can see the update - online. 

 

In the north - everyone is crooked so they have even the playing field through the courts... now if someone is too lazy to follow proceedings they are SOL! 

 

Still, that’s just one county... 

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On 7/13/2019 at 6:11 PM, Mel Hopkins said:

I can’t believe it!  BUT on this topic - we are in agreement!

 

Whoa!

 

Harvey Weinstein, R. Kelly: it seems like to more power you get the less likely would would need to abuse your power to satisfy you sexual predilections...  I guess these guys are just sadists and use their power to increase their reach.

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Mel

I believe Harvey Weinstein and Jeffery Epstein are both RED HERRINGS.

The media is overplaying and highly publicizing their prosecution to give the impression that the justice system is blind and are going after all men accused of sexual misconduct regardless of their race. But if you follow it closely you'll notice that...unlike Cosby or OJ Simpson...very few  most famous and wealthy White men rarely serve any prison time.

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On 7/15/2019 at 9:56 PM, Pioneer1 said:

But if you follow it closely you'll notice that...unlike Cosby or OJ Simpson...very few  most famous and wealthy White men rarely serve any prison time.

 

AND they get hired (Epstein) to teach with ONLY a  high school diploma allegedly from Lafayette High School... Now I ain't mad at him...I got a great gig and I hadn't even graduated from college yet  _ BUT don't tell the rest of the world they can't ahead without going into debt to go to and graduate from college.  Just be honest and advise that withtyout cronyism  and a well-connected network, the best bet is to go to college so you CAN get into a well connected network. 
 

Dude even worked at Bear Sterns handling a lot of cash.. Most black men have to get a college degree and an MBA just to get an interview. Black women? Fugghedaboutit unless she's fly.

Yeah, this society is full of crap but patriarchy strikes again.  So, all I can do is laugh. I benefited from it too! When I was young, my body was slamming  and that opened a lot of doors. Today, my daughters are young, gifted and gorgeous.  So you've guessed it  - They are living their best lives! One of my daughters just got her first corporate Credit card account - to wine and dine clients .  (Still, I hate patriarchy.  I for one am glad it's on its way out.) 

Btw, Judge dismissed Actor Kevin Spacey's sexual assault case. Dude wouldn't testify and prosecutors didn't push it as a crime against the state; which is standard operating procedure.  smh

Edited by Mel Hopkins
typos
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5 hours ago, Mel Hopkins said:

Dude even worked at Bear Sterns handling a lot of cash.. Most black men have to get a college degree and an MBA just to get an interview. Black women? Fugghedaboutit unless she's fly.

 

Yeah this fact jumped out at me too!  It is not a surprise, because I saw this all the time.  However, the fact that he is also a degenerate, convicted felon and it did nothing to stunt his ability to amass a great deal of wealth is a bit much...

 

I mean the feds are auditing me -- even if they find be completely wrong we are talking about a few grand I'd owe.  They have all the money in the world to go after chump change, from small businesses, but the wealthy get rewarded for their crimes. Blow up a bank and you not only get bailed out, but you get a huge bonus. 

 

This 2nd Gilded Age, we are in, is a mother!

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Front Office Middle Office and Back Office is the plantation system. 

Troy Mel and myself are house Negroes. Pioneer is a field Negro. 

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Mel

You brought up Bear Sterns.
I may be mistaken but wasn't Bear Sterns the firm that Chris Gardner (the man the movie Pursuit of Happiness was based on) worked for and eventually made him a success?

Perhaps they chose people based more on raw talent than academic record.

What Epstein, Weinstein, and Spacy were accused of doing is certainly nothing new but what I believe happened is the same thing that probably happened in the college admissions scandal and why so many wealthy and famous people ended up getting caught up in that......somebody got PISSED OFF because they didn't get PAID OFF and decided to blow the whistle on them.

As soon as they "rectify" the situation the charges will likely drop or be severely reduced.
They're not going to do them like OJ, Cosby, or Kelly.


 

 



Troy

You can correct me if I'm wrong but I remember you saying in one post that you didn't pledge a Fraternity.

If you had YOU TOO would have had the connections to either escape an audit or atleast they would have eased any financial penalties incurred and give you a slap on the wrist.

The Federal and even many of the State governments up and down the Eastcoast are FULL of well connected "Black Greeks" with the power to help eachother out.

 

 

 

 

 

8 minutes ago, Delano said:

Front Office Middle Office and Back Office is the plantation system. 

Troy Mel and myself are house Negroes. Pioneer is a field Negro. 


Actually I'm more like a Maroon......and far from the plantation, lol.

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14 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said:

Actually I'm more like a Maroon......and far from the plantation, lol.

You are calling yourself a maron?

History and Etymology for maroon

Noun (1)

 

probably from French maron, marron feral, fugitive, modification of American Spanish cimarrón wild, savage

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53 minutes ago, Delano said:

You are calling yourself a maron?

History and Etymology for maroon

Noun (1)

 

probably from French maron, marron feral, fugitive, modification of American Spanish cimarrón wild, savage


If you're VISUALLY impaired, allow me to repeat my EXACT statement but with larger print:

 

Actually I'm more like a Maroon......and far from the plantation


Now if you're MENTALLY impaired, I don't think I can help you much there.

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@Pioneer1 I was once a house negro, but while the analogy is far from perfect, I too liken myself to that of a Maroon as well -- independent and reliant on others like myself.

 

The house negroes are too comfortable to join me and the field negroes are too afraid. I don't blame either group as the maroon existence is risky.

 

Man being a Black "Greek" never saved anyone from the IRS. At the end of the day these are largely social organizations. Besides I can't afford the dues -- assuming I was even accepted as a member.

 

 

 

 

 

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maroon

 noun (1)
ma·roon | \ mə-ˈrün  \

Definition ofmaroon

 (Entry 1 of 3)

1capitalized : a fugitive black slave of the West Indies and Guiana in the 17th and 18th centuriesalso : a descendant of such a slave
2: a person who is marooned

So you are either are runaway slave lost or a chestnut. But you are not a Free Man by definition. 

 

I stand corrected Bugs Bunny didn't say maron.

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2 hours ago, Delano said:

You

1 hour ago, Pioneer1 said:

If you're VISUALLY impaired, allow me to repeat my EXACT statement but with larger print:

 

Actually I'm more like a Maroon......and far from the plantation


Now if you're MENTALLY impaired, I don't think I can help you much there.

are calling yourself a maron?

History and Etymology for maroon

Noun (1)

Perhaps someone else can explain this to you. Not understanding won't impede you or anyone else. 

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57 minutes ago, Troy said:

@Delano you and bugs bunny are confusing the word moron with maroon. Bugs was being funny

You would think my posting it twice with two spellings and an explanation would make it clear that i know the difference between maron and maroon and moron. Not even the Bugs Bunny quote helped. Okay guys. 

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Del you did not use the word "moron" until just now. Your reaction to Pioneer's statement to indicated that you got the words confused.  Did I miss-read something?

 

If you say you understand the difference between the words -- something I fully expect -- I believe you. No, the bugs bunny clip did not help clarify things.

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19 hours ago, Troy said:

I mean the feds are auditing me -- even if they find be completely wrong we are talking about a few grand I'd owe.


I hope you kept such good records that they find they owe you!! #dabastids

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4 hours ago, Troy said:

Del you did not use the word "moron" until just now. Your reaction to Pioneer's statement to indicated that you got the words confused.  Did I miss-read something?

 

If you say you understand the difference between the words -- something I fully expect -- I believe you. No, the bugs bunny clip did not help clarify things.

The irony is that maroon also means brown. In Switzerland it means chestnut. So Pioneer is indeed a Brown nut. 

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Yeah I responded to the audit, but they are taking months to respond. Way to go USA!

 

4th generation New Yorker -- wow! Virtually everyone I know, in NY, my age has parents who came from someplace else.

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