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A Little Depressed The Past Couple Days


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58 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said:

You're cussing and shaking your fists at Amazon and other mega-corporations owned and operated by Caucasians,

 

Yes, but what you are failing to realize is that ... (pausing briefly as I get on top of my chair to yell as loudly as I can) THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH RACE!! 

 

Amazon actually adversely affects FAR MORE white people than Black people.  How many websites are there like AALBC.... Answer: None!  Is it because of racism? No, it is because the world wide web is dominated by a few companies who crush competitors big and small in ways you don't appreciate.  Great Black book websites have been killed in the crib and the barrier to entry for new ones is far too high.

 

Sure, Amazon is run and largely owned by white people. Now some of white people may actually be racist, but that is immaterial, as the motivation of these people is making more money.  Amazon does not discriminate; they will crush a Borders and B&N just as quickly as they would an AALBC -- indeed Amazon isn't even thinking about an AALBC. 

 

You are so desperate to attribute the actions of white people to racism that you'd rather believe poor white people are "actors" or willingly sacrificing themselves in the name of racism while completely ignore what another Black man is telling you about his experience in the real world.

 

The problem of the 21st century is still the color line, but that color is green.

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Troy
 

You give white supremacists too much credit. People who believe in white supremacy are either ignorant or dumb. The fact we are still discussing the concept of race and the supposed superiority of one over the other is just plain stupid.

 

Man, they are CONTROLING THE WEATHER.
....either them or "Whoever" is helping them.

 

Image result for hurricane dorian


That doesn't sound like stupidity to me.


Some people may use that same argument you're using to make the claim that SLAVERY and COLONIALISM has nothing to do with race.
They may say it was just a bunch of greedy corporatists, land owners, and nobility of Europe who conspired to confiscate land and mistreat people from around the world and race was just a "tool".

My question is, if race has nothing to do with the large corporatists of today and their aggressive bid to control as much of the planet and her resources as possible......then what percentage of this group are NON-Caucasian?

If Caucasians make up less than 20% of the world's population and race has nothing to do with it, I should find almost FAR MORE more wealthy and powerful NON-Caucasians in positions of leadership who are exploiting the masses on this planet as Caucasians.

I think you should turn it around......
Rather than saying it's all about money and racism is a tool-
You should say it's all about race and money is just a tool.

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9 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Some people may use that same argument you're using to make the claim that SLAVERY and COLONIALISM has nothing to do with race.

 

They would be correct too. Slavery does not have anything to do with race. This is what made America's version "peculiar." White people here made it a above -- even going as far as enslaving their own children born of enslaved women.

 

9 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Europe who conspired to confiscate land and mistreat people

 

Europeans mistreated each other for far longer than they mistreated Bkack people. in fact they spent more time learning from Black people than enslaving them. 

 

If course you know Bkack peolle henefited from the transatlantic skave trade too. Was there motivation race too?

 

9 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

If Caucasians make up less than 20% of the world's population and race has nothing to do with it, I should find almost FAR MORE more wealthy and powerful NON-Caucasians

 

You are looking at it wrong, because you are assuming the entire world wants to be like Jeff Bezos. This is not true today nor was it ever.

 

Further, European "dominance" is just a flash in the pan on the scale of world civilization. Consider the British Empire; how long did their rain last?  Compare that to any ancient African civilization. 

 

If you view things in perspective and within a historical context you could not continue to be so fixated on race as the sole motivator for people -- including luding so called white ones.

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Troy

White people here made it a above -- even going as far as enslaving their own children born of enslaved women.


Because you refuse to see the paramount factor that RACE plays in slavery, you're not seeing the fact that the reason they could enslave their "own" children is because they were NOT WHITE like them.....so they felt it was justified.

If it weren't about race and were instead about money, morals, ect....then they would have treated their mixed offspring as most fathers would treat their children. But the non-White status of these children prevented them from doing that in that RACE-based institution.

 

 

 

If course you know Bkack peolle henefited from the transatlantic skave trade too. Was there motivation race too?


Yes.
Racial self-hatred.

You must understand that many of the Africans who sold other Africans into slavery were adherants to Christianity and Islam. They were already influenced by the anti-African Europeans and Arabs who taught them these religions.   Kind of like what's going on in Sudan today where you have one group of Africans mistreating and enslaving another group because of racism.  One group of Africans think they are Arabs and are oppressing the Africans who aren't for racist reasons.

 

 

 

 

Further, European "dominance" is just a flash in the pan on the scale of world civilization. Consider the British Empire; how long did their rain last? Compare that to any ancient African civilization.

If you view things in perspective and within a historical context you could not continue to be so fixated on race as the sole motivator for people -- including luding so called white ones.


Troy, when you look at most of history (his-story) you're just looking at one Caucasian civilization replacing the other.

The original Black civilization of Sumer was replaced by the Babylonian Caucasian empire which was replaced by the Persian Caucasian empire which was replaced by the Greek Caucasian Empire which was replaced by the Roman Caucasian empire which was replaced by  Caucasians who converted to Christianity.

The Aryan Caucasians came down and invaded India and displaced the Black Dravidians but the British Caucasians eventually overan the Aryan Caucasians and colonized India.....lol.

The British Caucasians conquered and took land from the Native Americans and put some British people here but eventually THOSE Caucasians didn't want the British Caucasians telling them what to do anymore so they fought the British and established the United States so THEY could start telling other people what to do....lol.

Man....just one group of Caucasians fighting ANOTHER over who's gonna rule the world.

Even the so-called World Wars and "Cold War" were about which group of Caucasians were going to rule over the darker world.

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3 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

RACE plays in slavery, you're not seeing the fact that the reason they could enslave their "own" children is because they were NOT WHITE like them.....so they felt it was justified.

 

Dude many of these children where so white they could pass. It was about money. 

 

3 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

You must understand that many of the Africans who sold other Africans into slavery were adherants to Christianity and Islam.

 

Why would these regions make Africans hate themselves? Both religions stared in Africa. Besides whats does this have do with race? 

 

3 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Even the so-called World Wars and "Cold War" were about which group of Caucasians were going to rule over the darker world.

 

So the germans were putting each other in gas chambers to rule over darker people? The Japanese were slaughtering it3her Asians to rule over africans and Americans dropped two nukes on Japan to rule over bkack people?

 

3 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

The original Black civilization of Sumer was replaced by the Babylonian Caucasian empire

 

So you are saying king Hammurabi was a white? Still black Africanscwere to first people to establish any form to civilization far longer than any white civilization.

 

Do you think America the world's most piwerful nation will reign supreme for another 1,000 years if not who will take over ... france?

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Troy



Why would these regions make Africans hate themselves? Both religions stared in Africa. Besides whats does this have do with race?


Well Christianity DEFINATELY didn't start in Africa, it started near the Caucasus mountains in and area known as TURKEY today.
As far as Islam, as an organized religion it's origins are in Arabia but I know you consider that part of Africa so there's no sense in arguing with you over that one....lol.

But the religious scriptures sub-consciously influence Africans to hate themselves and love Caucasians with scriptures that use terms like "light" and "white" for good and clean and pure and "dark" and "black" for that which is bad.

Also, the Europeans and Arabs who came to many of these African nations came with higher technology and more knowledge which made many of the Africans WANT to associate with them and imitate them in order to "improve" their status and set themselves apart from the other Africans.
You see this in Sudan today and how the Africans who call themselves "Arab" think they're better than and make war against the "non-Arab" Africans although both look the same.
Or in other African nations where the Christian Africans who are educated by Europeans and went to school in the West think they're better than the so-called "pagan" Africans who still follow their traditional religions and cultures.

It's realy self-hatred and an attempt to be more and more like the European and Arab and less like their own African selves, so to show how loyal they are they will even go as far as to enslave and help kill other Africans like they're doing in Sudan and some other parts of Africa today.

 

 

 

So the germans were putting each other in gas chambers to rule over darker people?


You are over-simplifying it by saying "germans" were doing this to eachother.
That's like pointing at Michael Brown being shot down in Ferguson and asking why were the people protesting just because "Americans" are shooting eachother down in the streets instead of acknowledging a racist Caucasian America shot down an innocent Afro American which would be more specific.

In Germany, these were a very narrow SELECT group of WASP Germans who were targetting Jews, Gypsies, and Slavic Germans who THEY claim had non-white ancestry and they were doing it for RACIAL reasons. They were doing it to get rid of what they thought was "black blood" tainting the German nation.

So yes, they were doing it to rule over darker people but in a more indirect way.



 

So you are saying king Hammurabi was a white? Still black Africanscwere to first people to establish any form to civilization far longer than any white civilization.


I'm not sure what race/color Hammurabi was.
The first civilization of Sumeria was a Black civilization before the Caucasian Akkadians came down from the mountains and established what would later be called Babylon.
Where Hammurabi fit in with this....I'm not sure.


 

 

 

Do you think America the world's most piwerful nation will reign supreme for another 1,000 years if not who will take over ... france?


I believe so, yes.
Infact, I believe the nation "America" will rule far longer than 1000 years.
....but that's all I'll say about that for now, lol.

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1 hour ago, Pioneer1 said:

Well Christianity DEFINATELY didn't start in Africa

 

Where does all the activity in the Bible actually take place?  Are you familiar with Osiris, Isis, and Horus the principles in the Egyptian create story?  Christianity borrows quite liberally from this..,

 

1 hour ago, Pioneer1 said:

Also, the Europeans and Arabs who came to many of these African nations came with higher technology

 

What technology would that be?  It would take Europeans several millennia to build anything on the scale of the Pyraminds

 

1 hour ago, Pioneer1 said:

In Germany, these were a very narrow SELECT group of WASP Germans who were targetting Jews, Gypsies, and Slavic Germans

 

 Yes, but all of these people are "white," using your language.

 

We can continue refuting each other statements @Pioneer1, but let me ask you this question.  Do you think Jeff Bezos is motivated more by money (and the power it brings) or race?

 

1 hour ago, Pioneer1 said:

I'm not sure what race/color Hammurabi was.

 

He was what you'd call Black.

 

 

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Troy


Where does all the activity in the Bible actually take place? Are you familiar with Osiris, Isis, and Horus the principles in the Egyptian create story? Christianity borrows quite liberally from this..,


Where the events of the Bible took place is irrelevant in terms of establishing where the religion of Christianity was founded. The first "republics" took place in Italy but that fact has little relevance on the events taking place in THIS Republic thousands of miles away and thousands of years afterwards called the United States.

Also, although I'm familiar with the Osiris and Isis myth....I have reason to believe that this myth did not originate in ancient Egypt.

Never the less, the fact is Christianity did NOT start in Africa regardless as to how many bits and pieces of African philosophy and mythology they may have used to make-up the religion.
It's foundations are in Europe/West Asia.

 

 

 

 

What technology would that be? It would take Europeans several millennia to build anything on the scale of the Pyraminds


They didn't need pyramids and oblisks.....all they needed to conquer much of Africa and colonize it was their guns, cannons, armored horses, ect...
That technology alone was enough to get the job done.

 

 

 

 

Yes, but all of these people are "white," using your language.


In my language they would be "Caucasian".....lol.
YOU are fond of using the term "White" which is why I use it for discussion purposes, but in reality most of the people called "White" vary in color from pale White to Tan.   Also, although the people Hitler persecuted were pretty much all of the same race (although there were some African and Asian victims), they were still percecuted for RACIST reasons because Hitler and the Nazis thought these fellow Caucasians had too much "African" ancestry in them.

Infact, it was the Caucasians of Germany and Austria who LOOKED White but were suspected of having African ancestry from long long ago like the Yiddish, the Slavic, the Gypsies, ect...... that the Nazi's were MOST worried about because you couldn't look at them and tell they had any African in them but they believed it was "hiding" in their genes and would be spread through sexual relationships.

Their ideaology was twisted, but they believed in it very strongly.





Do you think Jeff Bezos is motivated more by money (and the power it brings) or race?


I believe he's motivated more by power and money.
Just because someone is a racist, doesn't mean it's the MOST important thing in their life.

John Wayne was a racist, but I believe he cared more about his Hollywood career than keeping the races separated.

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OK I see we are not going to on racism.

 

Even a cursory view of history tells us that people did not see race the way you do -- even just a few hundred years ago.  There were Black popes and white people went to Africa to learn. White supremacy is a relatively new concept, born of the transatlantic slave trade.  It is also a concept that will likely die with our generation people like you who will never let go of it. 

 

But if know Bezos is motivated by money not race, surely you can understand the similarly wealthy slave owners of the Antebellum South were motivated by money as well.  Racism was a tool. 

 

Sure there will also be racists, just like there are people who still believe the earth is flat, but they will be perceived as crack pots by the vast majority of people. 

 

 

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Troy

You're mixing up apples with oranges with cauliflower with zuccini....lol.
Making a lot of hopeful statements but they aren't jibing with the facts we know from history.

Racism will not "die out" as long as Caucasians exist with other races because the sociological and psychological differences between the races that are based on the GENETIC and BIOLOGICAL differences between those races will....as it has in the past....FORCE conflict between the races that fuel racism.

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  • 1 month later...
On 9/20/2019 at 8:40 AM, Chevdove said:

OUr system seems to seek out aggressive ADOS who have been severely victimized and then elevate them and give them 'a voice' and then, propagandize them globally.

 

Hey @Chevdove I know I'm late responding to all this. But this point is very real. @Pioneer1 pointed out how Nipsey Hussle is the Tupac Shakur for Millennials. Sounds about right. I never have and never will understand the obsession with Tupac by black Americans. He's just a typical thug. What has he done to uplift, educate, motivate, etc.? NOTHING. Again, I know nothing about Hustle. But I believe what Pioneer said because it makes sense.

 

On 9/20/2019 at 8:40 AM, Chevdove said:

But, as I said, it's impossible for me, for now, to stop thinking and doing... something. 

 

Let's face it - many of the gripes African and Caribbean immigrants have against have against the ADOS masses are real. Honestly I don't want to be around a lot of ADOS. We're conditioned to be EMPLOYEES (slaves), but business owners. The latter is what this country is built on. Working for someone else means they own you. Thus slavery never ended. I won't stop expressing these truths and trying to motivate our people. It's just difficult. Ya know?

 

On 9/20/2019 at 12:29 PM, Pioneer1 said:

We were making up 2 and 3 genres every decade right up until the mid-80s.

And notice how the dance styles and dress styles have lost a lot of creativity also.

 

I'm going to dig up this podcast from my uncle in 2007. It addresses these exact points. Not only have dance and dress styles lost creativity. They have devolved into demented sexual debauchery. Disco will always be my favorite genre of ADOS movement for its groovy creativity. Good news is that I help fund music classes for select black youth in Phoenix. Their parents FORCE them into the classes at age 5. The kids hate it at first (they'd rather be rappin and foolin). But they recognize the creativity and the talent/skill they are developing. We're hoping to produce and develop REAL black bands in the next five years or so when the kids are a little older. We and the parents don't want kids being exploited. Must say...they are QUITE good. Our first act has a jazzy, funky yet 2019 sound. Hard to explain. But stay tuned! :)

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Aw man @Kareem, I'd have to disagree with you on your assessment of Tupac. No one is a "typical thug." To reduce any Black man to that cliche ignores the entire history of our experience in this country. I don't think I'm anymore enamored of Tupac than you are.

 

As far as your work with the young musicians keep up the good work!

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Whatever nomenclature you choose, Tupac is/was "produced." I've asked probably 30 black folks over the last 15-20 years to name something positive, tangible and/or good Tupac has done for black people to deserve this god status he apparently has. Most just get mad and start attacking me for asking the question. True be told, I've read de-classified FBI documents that say, in so many words, that Tupac's entire family history and shtick were produced by government for manipulation and control.

 

But again, my point just echoes a good point made by @Pioneer1 - that Nipsey Hustle is to Millennials as Tupac was to Generation X. Make sense. I hear the words "legend" and "great" associated with these guys. But I hear nothing tangible. Hell, something as simple as promoting marriage and raising strong, intelligent ladies and gentlemen would be something tangible. Neither of these guys can even claim that.

 

Wish we could expand the music program further. Always about funding. We're forced to choose the most talented kids and let the rest go. We still help them buy used guitars, basses, amp, etc. But the key is respecting and compensating the instructors, who are retired funk, blues and rock-n-roll musicians. They love the program so they do it for [relatively] small compensation and huge impact. Lots of old school black musicians retired in Phoenix.

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Again, I was unfamiliar with Nipsey until he was murdered.  I believe I understand what you are saying @Kareem.  I often push back on embracing someone as a "hero" that some record executive created -- I don't recognize Jay-Z or Kanye for the these reasons.  Sure, they get to the white house and are celebrated as thought leaders, sages knowledge about the Black community.  Meanwhile true Black intellectuals are marginalized.

 

At the end of the day these guys are entertainers and we can even argue about how good they are at that. I'd take anything Curtis Mayfield created over anything Jay-Z has created.

 

I'm sure any of the retired musicians working with your students are at least as talented and certainly more entertaining than Tupac was.  Could Tupac read music and play an instrument?  Again, if writing rhymes and reciting them to music someone else wrote is the extent of Tupac's talent that is really not all that impressive in the context of the musical talent or rappers I'm aware of...

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Troy

Glad to see the site is back up and running!
What happend?



Kareem

Good for you keeping our traditions alive by teaching them to our youth.
Hell, if Americans of German ancestry can keep THEIR traditions alive teaching their young people how to dance around in shorts and suspenders....we should be keeping OUR much more creative and colorful traditions alive in our youth.

I've said for years that we should have a "hip hop" school and teach our youth how to Break Dance since it's one of that most fascinating dances we've come up with so far and has universal appeal.


Tupac.......

Many AfroAmerican youth liked and still like Tupac because they can relate to him. People like celebrities they can relate to whether or not that relationship is based on healthy or pathological characteristics.  And they also liked his boldness and "bravado".
Gangsta rappers like Tupac had a way of expressing the way many angry young Black men felt but were unable to express or act out for fear of the consequences.  Again, many of these feelings may be pathological and just plain illogical.....but they still related to them.


It's funny that Troy mentioned Curtis Mayfield.
Starting around the early to mid 70s with Superfly and the like, unlike most other communities who are rampant with crime but still believe in putting on an innocent face in public....for some reason a significant percentage of AfroAmerican society began to OPENLY embrace criminality and immorality and that percentage has continued to increase right up until today not caring how they looked to other peoples.

Before then....
The standard for whether or not you were a real "man" and down for your peoples used to be how bold you stood up to White racism and challenged the system.....but in the 70s it was replaced by how bold you were in breaking the law and engaging in a life of crime and kill another "nigga".

So just like Malik Shabazz (Malcolm X), Kwame Ture (Stokely Carmichael), and Jamil Al-Amin (H Rap Brown) were popular with the youth of their era for how bold they were in challenging the white racist system....it would logically follow that Tupac, NWA, Mike Tyson, and other famous Black figures who boldly bragged about being criminals, killing "niggaz", and just being plain immoral would be popular with the youth of their era.

And following that logic even further........
Just like King and Abernathy were clowned on for being too soft on racism, rappers like Will Smith and Hammer would be clowned by many of the youth in their era for not being "gangsta" or criminal enough!

With that said, with all of his faults do think Tupac was very charismatic and had more sense than he let on which is one of the reasons I quote him from time to time.  He had a lot of potential, but he was morally disoriented and in many ways a victim of the very system his mother spent much of HER youth fighting.

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32 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said:

it would logically follow that Tupac, NWA, Mike Tyson, and other famous Black figures who boldly bragged about being criminals,

 

Mike Tyson is different from all the others you mentioned. Tyson is arguably the best boxer of all-time during his prime. He did something measurable and did it far better, prettier and more dominate than all his contemporaries in the 1980s and early 1990s. Prison and Cus D'Amato's death ruined Mike Tyson. But Mike's accomplishments are measurable and great. "Tupac is the best rapper" is an opinion about an arbitrary position. There are no easily-accessible measurables other than record sales that distinguish music artists. Mike Tyson was the measurable-greatest at his craft for like 8 years; and arguably the greatest ever in his prime. That is admirable and cool.

 

34 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said:

Just like King and Abernathy were clowned on for being too soft on racism, rappers like Will Smith and Hammer

 

I don't think MLK and Will Smith are in the same category. Mike Tyson and Tupac are both entertainers. Troy mentioned how all these guys are ultimately just entertainers. MLK was an activist, a front-line warrior. Yes, I am on the side that he was soft at times during his tenure. But not because he wasn't acting gangsta. I felt then and now that more forceful tactics and game plans are/were necessary for black Americans to prosper and break the grip of shame. Muhammad Ali was the ultimate activist, entertainer and warrior all in one. That's why he's great.

 

That all said, I'm a big Poetic Justice and Juice fan. I also like that "Keep Ya Head Up" CD.

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@Pioneer1 The children's book content on the site went viral crippling the web server for almost two weeks. I have upgraded the hardware so the likeihood of that happening again is greatly reduced. Welcome back!

 

 

10 hours ago, Kareem said:

Muhammad Ali was the ultimate activist,

 

He was a excellent boxer, but activist humm... i dunno. The way he dogged Malcolm X and Joe Frazier... I'd be reluctant in calling him the "ultimate" activist. 

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14 hours ago, Troy said:

He was a excellent boxer, but activist humm... i dunno. The way he dogged Malcolm X and Joe Frazier... I'd be reluctant in calling him the "ultimate" activist. 

 

The full quote is representative of my views: "Muhammad Ali was the ultimate activist, entertainer and warrior all in one. That's why he's great." Yes he's the ultimate activist. He voluntarily gave up boxing riches and material title/championship belts. White society forced Ali to choose between fighting for their imperial empire in Vietnam or give up his money and belts. Ali chose the latter. That's admirably, courageous and beautiful. That's why Ali is Ali.

 

Ali may have dogged Malcolm and Frazier. These men were all on levels I've never been. All I can do is objectively look at their conflicts and take them for what they are. I respect Ali as much as I do Malcolm X. They were on the front line in an important phase of black American history. Ali and Malcolm inspired black people to be great. They had disagreements based on numerous things. That's not for me to judge. Both men had influenced me positively.

 

Frazier is just a boxer. A great fighter for sure. But he's not a transcendent figure like Ali and Malcolm. Frazier did not advocate for black people directly or indirectly. He didn't advocate sacrifice for the better good, like Ali and Malcolm. He's not on their level of greatness as men. Frazier is a great boxer though and I respect him very much for that.

 

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9 hours ago, Kareem said:

Frazier is just a boxer. A great fighter for sure. But he's not a transcendent figure like Ali and Malcolm. Frazier did not advocate for black people directly or indirectly. He didn't advocate sacrifice for the better good, like Ali

 

Man I have to disagree here. We all fall prey to the stories white media create. One minute they they tell us Ali is a traitor the next they tell us he is beloved.

 

Ali trashed Frazier mercilessly while never doing the same to white opponents. Fraizer ran a gym actively working in the community developing another generation of athletes he was ignored by the white community and as a result the larger Black communty (outside of Philadelphia). White racists in Philadelphia chose to erect a statue of the fictional Rocky Balbos over an actual heavyweight champion Joe Frazier.

 

Joe Fraizer was a great man and boxer whether the mainstream media chooses to recognize it or not.

 

Ali was in the NOI and could not join the military. His stance was more a consequence of being a follower of Elijah Muhammad than any personal conviction. Prominent members running afoul of the NOI suffered consequences.

 

When you describe Ali as the "ultimate activist" you are indeed judging. The man was complicated and i don't want to come across as diminishing his impact, but at the same time I don't want exaggerate his role as an activist and marginalize Fraizer.

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Troy

Thanks

I was concerned for a second or two...lol.

 

 

 


Kareem

Both Tupac and Tyson were great at their professions.
Tupac may not have been the "best" rapper, but in my opinion he was an excellent lyricist despite the content of his lyrics.
But the point I was making with them as examples was that BOTH were morally depraved (not the right word) disoriented, constantly in and out of trouble for violent and socially disruptive behavior, and incidently both ended up in prison for allegedly rape. And despite this moral disorientation they were highly acclaimed in the AfroAmerican community and especially among many AfroAmerican males for their boldness and unapologetic expression of "urban masculinity".

My point in bringing up King and Abernathy was to draw an analogy between them and the Malcolms and Huey Newtons of that time and how their apparently "softness" made them less popular with young AfroAmerican males the same way the apparent "softeness" of Hammer and Smith made them less popular than Ice Cube or Tupac who were considered more criminal and harder.


Despite their profession.....Civil Rights Activist or Professional Entertainer....my point is that the masses of AfroAmerican males will relate more to the bolder, more masculine, "harder" figure and not the more reserved one because the bolder figures are more likely to express the suppresses frustrations of the masses.

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On 11/6/2019 at 9:04 PM, Troy said:

We all fall prey to the stories white media create.

 

I couldn't care less about white media and their narratives. I assume you're equating my position on Frazier to me accepting some white media narrative? That's fine if that's your position. I'm not going to tug-of-war that.

 

On 11/6/2019 at 9:04 PM, Troy said:

 

Ali was in the NOI and could not join the military. His stance was more a consequence of being a follower of Elijah Muhammad

 

Cassius Clay joined the NOI and became Muhammad Ali. He did so because of his convictions and beliefs. Ali WILLINGLY was stripped of his belts and participation in high-income fights because he refused to be a pawn of white imperialism. Ali was convicted of draft dodging and was not allowed to fight and earn a living for four years (1967-1971 I believe). He only avoided prison because he paid the bond while on appeal. The US Supreme Court ultimately overturned his conviction in 1971. But Ali made a living during that time by giving IMPRESSIVE, INSPIRATIONAL speeches and other stuff.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqOE2zTlg3E

 

Further, Frazier and Ali were actually closer friends than "white media" portrays. They both understood "the game." This interview shows that (the 4:45 mark is a great example).

 

https://youtu.be/mgbFj-z8eG8?t=286

 

On 11/6/2019 at 9:04 PM, Troy said:

I don't want exaggerate his role as an activist and marginalize Fraizer.

 

I never marginalized Frazier. You just assumed that. I very much respect Joe Frazier as a great boxer and great man. Muhammad Ali simply was more blunt and forward about his pro-blackness and anti-white imperialism. I respect that more.

 

On 11/8/2019 at 2:30 PM, Pioneer1 said:

my point is that the masses of AfroAmerican males will relate more to the bolder, more masculine, "harder" figure

 

I agree with that, in 2018 and back. The conversation between @Troy and I also strengthens your argument.  I mean, more black youth love Tariq Nasheed vs. Antonio Moore these days because the previous is more assertive and blunt. But I also notice a trend towards the Roland Martin/Van Jones types getting all the white press and love in 2019--thus making young black men believe being a soft, liberal effeminate is the path to $$, with dignity and pride distant third and fourth wants/needs.

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From all that I've seen Ali rejected Malcolm for renouncing the NOI

 

 

23 hours ago, Kareem said:

I never marginalized Frazier.

 

@Kareem if your following quote does not marginalize Frazier, then I don't know the definition of marginalization. You've elevated Ali WAY above Frazier. Both men were great fighters and Frazier was an asset to his community but greatly marginalized by the mainstream culture -- unlike Ali who was deified later in life.

 

On 11/6/2019 at 2:27 PM, Kareem said:

Frazier is just a boxer. A great fighter for sure. But he's not a transcendent figure like Ali and Malcolm.

 

I bet if the NOI was as strong as it was when both Ali and Malcolm were in it Ali would never have become a media darling.

 

As far a Ali and Frazier being friends I dunno, but I doubt they were BFF's.  In any case Ali talking about Frizer like a dog which I did not care for.  I also recognize that Ali recognized the Frazier was sensitive and used that against him. A tactic which backfired against Kenny Norton

 

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Troy

 

So you are saying that the masses relate more to Iron Mike than to MLK? Do you? I don't.

 

No, because I personally respect and admire intelligence and charisma OVER mere brute aggression and bravado, although I've had to use both to get things done in the community.


However, I believe the masses of young urban AfroAmerican males...definately relate more to Iron Mike than they do Martin Luther "Da" King.

I don't know of any young AfroAmericans who don't have a measure of honor for King and what he's done, even those who call him a "sell out" will readily acknowledge his intelligence and love for his people despite criticizing his methods.
But as far as who is considered more "relatable", Tyson would win.
How many people PERIOD let alone poor urban AfroAmerican men can relate to a well educated social activist and high-achiever with a doctorate (besides maybe you)?  Most will see someone like that far and above their reach to relate to.

But a Black man from the hood who grew up running from the police, fighting, and getting in trouble and despite his limited intellect and limited vocabulary doesn't hesitate to speak his mind and stand up for himself.....the masses of young AfroAmerican males definately admire those qualities and feel they can emulate and achieve them.

 

 

 

 

 


Kareem


I mean, more black youth love Tariq Nasheed vs. Antonio Moore these days because the previous is more assertive and blunt. But I also notice a trend towards the Roland Martin/Van Jones types getting all the white press and love in 2019--thus making young black men believe being a soft, liberal effeminate is the path to $$, with dignity and pride distant third and fourth wants/needs.


What you said about Tariq vs Antonio is absolutely true and on top of his assertiveness, Tariq has far more charisma which is always a plus when dealing with people. I've only listened to Antonio a few times so far and he's usually with Yvette. Maybe it's because he's a lawyer but he seems more scholarly...which I personally like.....but this also makes you less relatable to the masses of urban youth.

As far as Roland Martin and Jones........
On top of being complacent and only mildly critical of White Supremacy, a major problem with these men is that they simply have no following.

They....like Al Sharpton....are basically negroes who have a lot to say, but don't have enough power from the streets or from the masses of AfroAmericans at any level to really get things done.
If Tariq came out next week and said niccaz need to get down to Houston Texas and turn that city upside down.....it would happen.
If Minister Farrakhan said the same thing...you KNOW it would happen.
If Roland or Jones were to say something like that (I know...never) not only would their call get no response but it would probably backfire on them and people would assume they were just agents trying to provoke them into trouble.

They are what Neely Fuller Jr calls "Black spokespersons".
A slave or prisoner who can articulate their condition better than the average slave/prisoner, but still have no power to change it.

 

 

 

 

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@Troy I'm well aware of the Malcolm vs. Ali rivalry. I respect and learned a lot from both men. I'm not commenting on their rivalry. Both were equal students under Elijah Muhammad and both were inspirational, powerful global figures. Not much else to say about that. Yes, Ali was more inspirational, more charismatic and more "meter-moving" than Frazier. If you want to call that marginalization, fine. I've stated my position. No, Ali and Frazier weren't BFF's. But again, they understood that their perceived mutual animosity was part of the overall show that both men handsomely.

 

20 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Tariq has far more charisma which is always a plus when dealing with people.

 

I'm starting to question all of their genuine motives. I tried leaving an objective comment on one of Tariq's Youtube videos the other day and he deleted it. I've always like Tariq's perceived goals, but his armor is receiving lots of dents. That public between feud between he and Umar Johnson was the first warning sign. They both CHILDISHLY attacked one another on social media because each exposed the other's hustle. Now this feud with Tariq vs. Antonio and Yvette is really getting sad.

 

I don't think its much of a secret that Yvette likes women and advocates for the alphabets; and Tone advocates for voting "down ballot" for Democrats no matter what. I was already skeptical of those two because of the aforementioned. Tariq is kind of making a fool of himself right now attacking them over some lawsuit with Comcast and the billionaire black man. Between this feud and Tariq vs. Umar, Tariq is proven to be over-sensitive and self-serving in some ways. That doesn't take away from the brother's great filmmaking career. But he's definitely more Tupac than Malcolm. Just more 400 years of black divide.

 

21 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

If Minister Farrakhan said the same thing...you KNOW it would happen.

 

Agreed and with the powerless, puppet liberal negroes. I think Tariq is damaging his image big-time over the last week with this ADOS vs. FBA stuff. I know the black masses are DESPERATE for leadership so we give people a lot of leeway. But judging from comments on his Twitter and Youtube feeds, he's losing support for pettiness. But then again, the ADOS organization is also losing credibility in lieu of #ADOS our people. Its the same thing as Black Lives Matter. The previous is a true statement that bonds us all. #BlackLivesMatter is a liberal LGBT front group/organization funded by Democrats and enriching Delray and those three chicks. The ADOS organization (Tone, Yvette, etc.) are liberal Democrats too. Quite sad actually, but this is yet another chapter in black people being used for white agendas.

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6 hours ago, Kareem said:

#BlackLivesMatter is a liberal LGBT front group/organization funded by Democrats and enriching Delray and those three chicks. The ADOS organization (Tone, Yvette, etc.) are liberal Democrats too. Quite sad actually, but this is yet another chapter in black people being used for white agendas.

 

What is the agenda white are using Blacklivesmatter and yvette to promote?

 

Yes @Pioneer1 I do relate more to King than I due to Tyson. But I have things in common with Tyson, and differences with King. As fars as the Black "masses" you might be right but I don't know.

 

 

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31 minutes ago, Troy said:

What is the agenda white are using Blacklivesmatter and yvette to promote?

 

#BlackLivesMatter is a black LGBT group. The brother Darren Seals was on the front line of Ferguson before he was "mysteriously murdered." He reported straight up how all these homophile, well-funded niggas showed up in St. Louis/Ferguson, and usurped the movement.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGFLqjqe-fA

 

#BLM BlackLivesMatter the organization(s) exist for the white liberal agenda (LGBT). I don't think Yvette specifically is promoting a white agenda. I think all of them (Yvette, Tone, Tariq) are reacting to that New York Times article from a few days ago about ADOS and who gets credit for being leaders of it and founding it. I was saying this current feud is across-the-board nigga shit caused by white media. Frankly I don't know much about Yvette or Tone. I do know what they encourage black people to vote for Democrats; thus they are partisan. Partisan means white agenda to me.

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Kareem

That public between feud between he and Umar Johnson was the first warning sign. They both CHILDISHLY attacked one another on social media because each exposed the other's hustle. Now this feud with Tariq vs. Antonio and Yvette is really getting sad.


I couldn't have agreed with you more on the Tariq/Umar beef. It was not only embarassing but just down right disappointing. I was far more disappointed at those two brothers going at it than I was over the alleged Eastcoast/Westcoast feud because I expected that type of ignorance and bravado coming from rappers and street cats, but not from brothers who considered themselves "conscious" and woke.

But I believe it was either Lenon Honor or Willie D was speaking on the issue and said to let people beef and pop off because the more they do so the more they expose things about their opponents the public may not have known and probably need to and the more THEY reveal about themselves as well. I now know how sensitive to all criticizm and petty (even he admits to this) Tariq is because of his feuds with others and I also know how egotistical and sensitive to criticizm Umar is also as well how ghetto and street he can become when angered as was revealed with his brief feud with Seti.

 

 

Agreed and with the powerless, puppet liberal negroes. I think Tariq is damaging his image big-time over the last week with this ADOS vs. FBA stuff. I know the black masses are DESPERATE for leadership so we give people a lot of leeway. But judging from comments on his Twitter and Youtube feeds, he's losing support for pettiness. But then again, the ADOS organization is also losing credibility in lieu of #ADOS our people.


Nothing to say but touche.
As much as I support the brother, I can't defend Tariq's behavior in this case because his feud with Tone is totally unnecessary.
If I may offer ANY kind of defense, I would say that Tariq's criticism of #ADOS leadership is coming from a strategic point of view where he felt.....as Neely Fuller Jr teaches...that once you label yourself an organization with leaders (Tone and Yvette) you are now targeted by the establishment therefore they should remain low key.......but HE'S not following his own advise by jumping off the FBA movement, lol.

 

 




Troy

 

What is the agenda white are using Blacklivesmatter and yvette to promote?


Institutionalizing homophilia as part of AfroAmerican culture.

I'm not sure if Yvette Carnell is actually being used by the establishment but she is an open lesbian with a Caucasian girlfriend so I don't think she's the best person to promote "traditonal" AfroAmerican values or promote ADOS culture. However BLM was established to aggressively promote homophilia in the AfroAmerican community on the street level by incorporating local activists into the movement and forcing them to agree with the "gay agenda" for funding.

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Troy

I wouldn't say "white people" in general but the White Establishment.....the wealthy influencial group of Caucasians who control much of this society.....are using multiple methods INCLUDING funding BLM to promote HOMO (not hemo which has to do with blood) philia in the AfroAmerican community and make it more acceptable to the masses.

I'm not sure if they are funding Yvette for this or even funding her at all, but they ARE funding BLM for this very reason.

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Here is a related anecdote:

 

Read the review about one of the Black Lives Matters principals, Patrisse Khan-Cullors, When They Call You a Terrorist: A Black Lives Matter Memoir. The late Kam Williams wrote the review. The author of the book, a sister I though I was cool with emailed me  vigorously trashing the review. There is a video on the page that i arranged for the author to appear in but she ghosted me which was a pretty shitty thing to do.

 

Now the review was Kam's assessment, was the review worth burning a bridge with AALBC? What did Kam do wrong mention Patrice's dysfunctional upbringing or her Homosexuality? 

 

While I don't think the oligarchy is using homosexuality to destroy the Black community, the current climate of political correctness and hypersensitivity is hurting us. 

 

I have no issue with BLM, but their prominence is a function of and largely a creation of media coverage.  Since we don't control media, we don't control who represents Black the mainstream.

 

The are important groups in NYC, for example, doing real work in the community. You will rarely learn about them on network TV. They don't have social media folks sending tweets or posting on Instgram -- they doing real work and don't need retweets.

 

"A group's prominence on social media is inversely proportional to it's relevance to our people."

 

Without twitter BLM would never have emerged. As far as it's relevance lets judge that in another decade after the twittersphere (if it still exists) has moved on to the next shiny thing.

 

 

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Troy

"Political correctess" is a tool that many racist Caucasians are now using to harass and terrorize AfroAmericans.

Originally political correctness was a code of conduct meant to protect AfroAmericans and women from racist and sexist jokes and slurs endured in the work place and society in general from White males. Now that homophiles, biophiles, and transexuals have been added to the list of "protected groups" racists Caucasians monitor the speech and behavior of AfroAmericans and seize upon any opportunity to point the finger and accuse them of political incorrectness, insensitivity, sexism, homophobia, and even reverse racism.

A good example is when Ginuwine refused to kiss a man and was called a homophobe and harassed for it:

https://www.bet.com/music/2018/01/08/ginuwine-big-brother-celebrity-trans-woman-twitter-debate.html

 

 



While I don't think the oligarchy is using homosexuality to destroy the Black community,


Ofcourse they're not trying to destroy it....because they know they can't, lol.
But they are trying to DESTABLIZE it (even further) by confusing the roles and expectations of males and females thus pitting them against eachother and lowering the birth/population rate. BLM is just one of their tools for this.

 

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Dude, what impact has BLM had on your life, or the life of anyone you know? Do you think anyone would be made gay by following them on Twitter?

 

BLM does give white corporations the ability to appear "woke," by providing  BLM a platform. The "alphabet people" as you describe them are in now.

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Troy

Dude, what impact has BLM had on your life, or the life of anyone you know?


BLM's pro-homophilia platform negatively impacts the social status of AfroAmericans in general and makes us look even more immoral and broken.

You're looking at things from a typical U.S. INDIVIDUALISTIC mentality.
You say what BLM does and what gays do have nothing to do with you and little impact on your life....which is the way it SHOULD be....but not the way it IS.

When people from other nations and cultures (nations and cultures that are far more collectivist than ours) come to the United States or watch the politics of this nation from abroad and they see AfroAmericans engaged in or associated with crime, violence, mass incarceration, and now homophile and pedophile behavior....it justifies the mistreatment in their minds.
If they see some acting that way...they assume ALL act that way.

 

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  • 5 weeks later...
On 11/3/2019 at 12:37 PM, Kareem said:

Hey @Chevdove I know I'm late responding to all this. But this point is very real. @Pioneer1 pointed out how Nipsey Hussle is the Tupac Shakur for Millennials. Sounds about right. I never have and never will understand the obsession with Tupac by black Americans. He's just a typical thug. What has he done to uplift, educate, motivate, etc.? NOTHING. Again, I know nothing about Hustle. But I believe what Pioneer said because it makes sense.

 

I do not understand the hype about Tupac, either, and I did listen to some of Nipsey's music and understand his platform, therefore, I think the two are absolutely different.

Nipsey me the leader of Eritrea, and was about to do some kind of business venture. He also began to promote STEM for young black kids and etc.

His music was intense for me, but, I understand his platform.

Nipsey was definitely political but not sure about Tupac.

 

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On 11/20/2019 at 7:09 PM, Pioneer1 said:

When people from other nations and cultures (nations and cultures that are far more collectivist than ours) come to the United States or watch the politics of this nation from abroad and they see AfroAmericans engaged in or associated with crime, violence, mass incarceration, and now homophile and pedophile behavior....it justifies the mistreatment in their minds.
If they see some acting that way...they assume ALL act that way.

 

Man this is hyperbolic.  Thinking people know better than to prejudge an entire group of people based upon the behavior of a few individuals.  Besides the most dysfunction behavior, as you define it, is engaged in by white men.  There is a white gay man who is a front running for POTUS. The catholic Church, which is run by white men, is riddled with pedophiles.

 

Surely, the people from abroad that you say are judging us can see a stark difference between President Obama and 45.  Why would they not use this as an example by which to judge Black people -- using your analogy?

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On 12/20/2019 at 3:39 AM, Chevdove said:

Nipsey me the leader of Eritrea, and was about to do some kind of business venture. He also began to promote STEM for young black kids and etc.

His music was intense for me, but, I understand his platform.

 

Your post made me look into Nipsey Hussle a little more. I came across an interview with him on the Breakfast Club. He talked about the book/movie "The Spook Who Sat By The Door." He talked about having the power to mobilize a lot of black people. It was similar to that line in the Malcolm X movie when the cop said "No man should have that much power."

 

Anyway, Hussle was dead a month or two later. A good friend of mine believes that was the reason he was killed. I also saw that Hussle was in a long-term relationship with a beautiful black woman and mother of one of his children named Lauren London. Never heard of her either until a few days ago. But that alone differentiates Hussle from Tupac. I don't believe a black man can be a true leader of black people without a black woman at his side. That's why Malcolm (and Betty), Medgar (and Myrlie), and MLK (Coretta) were so influential and powerful. I've grown more skeptical of Nelson Mandela over the years. But he and Winnie were also very powerful. Who is/was a powerful, influential black couple now? The Obamas work for white liberals. Jay-Z and Beyonce are just celebrities looking out for themselves. It just doesn't exist anymore.

 

I just wonder why I never heard of Hussle until he was dead? I don't listen to hip-hop anymore as most of it since the early 1990s is garbage. But if he as doing good thing, I'd think he'd be on my radar.

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2 hours ago, Kareem said:

But if he as doing good thing, I'd think he'd be on my radar.

 

Well I guess it depends on where you get your information. I never heard of Nispey before he died either, but there are many Black people doing great things. their stories don't make mainstream media and most aren't goifing around on Twitter.

 

This is one reason the lost of black owned newspapers and magazines have been so devastating.

 

Our culture is obsessed with celebrity. It is a sickness...

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On 12/22/2019 at 9:10 PM, Kareem said:

I just wonder why I never heard of Hussle until he was dead? I don't listen to hip-hop anymore as most of it since the early 1990s is garbage. But if he as doing good thing, I'd think he'd be on my radar.

 

@Kareem Me too. I never heard of him until he was dead! But, I feel that his movement was on point.

Although he died young, I feel that his life was very complete. 

He had a hard life, a high school drop out and then he became a millionaire.

He really focused on 'cutting out the middle man' in finances and etc.

 

 

On 12/22/2019 at 9:10 PM, Kareem said:

Your post made me look into Nipsey Hussle a little more. I came across an interview with him on the Breakfast Club. He talked about the book/movie "The Spook Who Sat By The Door." He talked about having the power to mobilize a lot of black people. It was similar to that line in the Malcolm X movie when the cop said "No man should have that much power."

 

Anyway, Hussle was dead a month or two later. A good friend of mine believes that was the reason he was killed.

 

Oh yes. It would not surprise me at all. I think I heard that he was suppose to have a meeting with the LA police force about stopping gang violence the day before he was killed.

And, I hope Laura London will be comforted. Yes, that was another one of Nipsey's focus. He campainged hard, even in his music about Black relationships!

 

 

 

 

On 12/23/2019 at 12:13 AM, Troy said:

This is one reason the lost of black owned newspapers and magazines have been so devastating.

 

@Troy I agree. It has been devastating.

 

On 12/23/2019 at 12:13 AM, Troy said:

Our culture is obsessed with celebrity. It is a sickness...

 

We are flooded with so much celebrity 'this and that'!

NOw, today we also have so many Black celebrities too, and at first, say yes--it's about time, but then, this too, is

a distraction in some ways. It takes away from issues that I feel we need to address but are not.

I get so distracted myself, but nevertheless, I still try to limit myself.

 

In the very nature of this thread, if I constantly read celebrity news and get caught up into media hype, it can get down right depressing.

Instead of being 'the focus' in every day day-to-day things going on around my own surroundings, I sometimes find myself looking at someone

elses' life too long, and then lose focus my own human presence. It's sickening.

I wish there were community venues, Black people affairs, that were promoted nearby, then I would have to stop watching media 

and go and attend and be around people! 

 

 

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Troy

Man this is hyperbolic. Thinking people know better than to prejudge an entire group of people based upon the behavior of a few individuals. Besides the most dysfunction behavior, as you define it, is engaged in by white men.


This isn't hyperbole, it's a sociological fact that most people who come from COLLECTIVIST societies tend to judge groups by the INDIVIDUALS they meet.

If you don't understand this concept, how do you think the world feels about America with TRUMP as the head of it?
How did you think the world felt about America with BUSH as the head 15 years ago?

People in other countries were constantly asking what was wrong with the AMERICAN PEOPLE that they would allow such an idiot to become their leader.

AfroAmericans must shake off this extreme "individualism" they learned from Caucasians and stop being so self-centered and concerned ONLY with matters that concern us personally.
We need to seriously concern ourselves with how OTHER people think, especially when they think of us.

I used to think it was wrong to judge an entire group based on the behavior of just a few people but the older I got the more I began to understand why this is done.

When people from other nations come to America and see AfroAmerican men hanging around on the street begging for dope money, older people being disrespected in the neighborhoods, or grown men walking around with blonde hair and limp wrists acting all sissified and feminine in a flamboyant and comical manner they not only judge THOSE INDIVIDUAL AfroAmericans who are behaving in such a disgraceful manner but they also make judgements about AfroAmericans as a whole!

Wanna know why?

Because they figured if AfroAmericans as a group had any honor and pride the majority of them wouldn't ALLOW a handful to make fools of themselves in public and disgrace the majority!

An the individual is a reflection of the whole to various degrees.

Some of the shit that goes on in Black neighborhoods would NEVER go on in East Asian or Arab communities in America because these communities tend to have so much of a code among themselves that if just ONE person attempted to engage in such behavior every man who sees it would feel OBLIGATED to confront the offenders on sight!
No need to have peace rallies and meetings, every man who sees it will immediately TAKE ACTION.

Go to Korean town in Los Angeles and get on the bus and all of the young Koreans know they BETTER get up and let an elder Korean sit down first and if they don't all the other Koreans who see it will give them a mean look, say something, and then CONFRONT them over it!

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