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Pioneer1

A Little Depressed The Past Couple Days

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19 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

But yall know good and dog-gone well most AfroAmerican men aren't like that. When Africans come to this nation most of them see the typical "nigga" hanging out smoking dope, selling dope, and acting a straight fool in the street going in and out of jail and getting in and out of trouble. Why would them or anyone else with good sense even RESPECT people like that let alone want to "unite" with them and work with them?

 

I wish I could disagree with this, but I cannot. I will qualify my position with the fact that black people succeeded in building our own cities in the 1910s and 1920s, only for white people to destroy them. Black Wall Street (Tulsa, OK) gets most of the press in this regard. Rosewood, East St. Louis, Omaha, Kirven, TX...there were probably 100 cities/neighborhoods that former slaves built from the ground up from 1870-1930, only to have them destroyed in "race riots," meaning feral, jealous white people torching and looting the cities, and killing thousands of the ancestors.

 

I think after that, ADOS collectively gave up. We're damned if we do, damned if we don't. But nothing you said is inaccurate. Its the main reason I don't watch TV and movies. I just can't stand seeing black people as willing, bojangling coons.

 

19 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

If you look at most African immigrants and their children today, they remind me of ourselves  AfroAmericans back in the 50s, 60s, and 70s  BEFORE integration

 

This is very important. I've argued with many brothers and sisters that we were FAR better off before so-called "integration." The statistics don't lie. 89% of black babies were born to their married mom and dad in the 1960s. Black business ownership (meaning businesses that creates jobs in black communities and had black patrons) peaked in 1963. There were fewer than 150,000 black people in prison/jail in 1960. Today there are over 2 million. The most chilling stat of today - 80%+ of black babies in the USA are born to a single mom.

 

Instead of improving ourselves, we pick a master (liberals or the Trumps) and try to be the best slave possible. That means alphabet-cooning for liberals and shoulder-monkey-cooning for Trump. Those who don't succeed at one of those end up in prison and drinking 40s in front of the liquor store. The remaining 20-25% (you, I, Troy, Chev, etc.) are going to be extinct by 2050. I've maintained that forever. The black man and woman in the USA will not exist in 30 years. This was the white imperial plan since 1619 and its come to fruition.

 

Troy mentioned how I'm out of the loop for not knowing what Wakada is. I don't know anything about any of these rappers today; couldn't name one song by any of them. When Nipsey Hussle (sp?) died, that's the first time I heard of him. A lot of black folks seem to respect him. I'm curious of your opinion of him? I NEVER understood the obsession with 2Pac. I mean, he's a typical nigga to me. Rappers like KRS-One, X-Clan, Chuck D/Public Enemy, Paris, etc. were who got me into rap. I mean, I'd listen to Sir Mix-A-Lot, Too Short and other stuff because I'd hear it played around the house. You also notice how disco was the last CREATIVE genre of black music...where we actually played instrument and MADE music? Today disco is clowned as some circus act. They made stop MAKING music and created "rap" where you sample other people's music and talk over it. They even steal our creativity.

 

You are absolutely right re: hood movies. Seriously, all these black filmmakers can't come up with black love stories, business stories, intelligent comedies, etc.? Hell, when I first saw Boyz in the Hood and Menace 2 Society, that shit shocked me. I'd never seen anything like that in real life. When I started trying to "talk black" after seeing those films as a kid, my dad and uncles beat my ass!

 

9 hours ago, Troy said:

Again, our media highlights the Black dysfunction that exists and they highlight white success and diminish their dysfunction.

 

This is true. But we know its coming. Bottomline is that we're still trying to impress a master, whether its liberals (probably 60% of ADOS) or Trump (probably 15% of ADOS). We've been conditioned to beg them for paychecks, for dignity, for respect, etc. We have no way to counter it. The most powerful black people in America are pushing white agendas. I'm going to be so sad when Minister Farrakhan passes away. He's the last of the true black power movement. the destruction of black America will accelerate quickly thereafter. That and the fake preachers like Creflo Dollar, Sharpton and Jakes will keep flying around in private jets preaching fear and submissiveness to poor black folks.

 

Now I'm feeling depressed!

 

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2 hours ago, Kareem said:

When Nipsey Hussle (sp?) died, that's the first time I heard of him.

 

Honestly I had not heard of him before he died myself. I imagine i must have heard his music, because i do hang out, but to this day I cannot tie his name to a single song.

 

There are apparently some conscious rappers out there but they are underground (obscure) and enjoy very little mainstream notoriety, for the reasons previously described.

 

I hope you brothers don't remain depressed. That is wasted energy. Work to change something -- anything -- for the better every little bit helps and you'll inspire others. As you've inspired me -- knowing there are others with similar attitudes who support what im doing -- who can also disagree without running away but hopefully take something away and maybe look at something differently and build upon what they have. 

 

We need warriors. The newsletter I mailed today was dedicated to the warriors who oppressor tried to erase from history. A couple of the books shared i discovered here fron y'all.

 

As you make progress and grow depression will be a distant memory.

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Kareem


This is very important. I've argued with many brothers and sisters that we were FAR better off before so-called "integration." The statistics don't lie. 89% of black babies were born to their married mom and dad in the 1960s. Black business ownership (meaning businesses that creates jobs in black communities and had black patrons) peaked in 1963. There were fewer than 150,000 black people in prison/jail in 1960. Today there are over 2 million. The most chilling stat of today - 80%+ of black babies in the USA are born to a single mom.


AfroAmericans were far more independant before integration, that's for sure.
We knew that if we wanted something or needed something done we better get off our ass and do it OURSELF because we couldn't expect for Caucasians to.

If you wanted some food, better get your ass out in the field and grow it yourself!
If you wanted a school, better get some wood and old chairs together and build it yourself!
If you wanted a better house than that shack you're living in, you better get together with some other brothers, chop down some trees and build it yourself!
Your grandma died and needs a proper burial? Better get your own funeral home because Caucasians don't want to touch a dead negro!

We were FORCED to work and do for ourselves and when Caucasians saw this they realized that we didn't need them and were independent.
If you're already independent and can pretty much do everything yourself, that was only one step away from separating and having a nation of our own!
So they had to figure out a way to get AfroAmericans BACK into a dependant mode so we wouldn't leave them.  Integration told Black folks you can sell your banks and businesses now because we'll let you work and do business in ours.

Marcus Garvey suggested that if he wasn't careful the Black man will drink the poision of White civilization and die from it's effects!




 

 

Troy mentioned how I'm out of the loop for not knowing what Wakada is.
 

If I'm not mistaken I don't believe he was refering to a rapper.
Wakanda is the fictional (?) African nation that the movie Black Panther was based around.
I'm assuming you heard about it even if you didn't see it.

 

 

 

When Nipsey Hussle (sp?) died, that's the first time I heard of him. A lot of black folks seem to respect him. I'm curious of your opinion of him? I NEVER understood the obsession with 2Pac. I mean, he's a typical nigga to me.


You took the words right out of my mouth.
Nipsey is just THIS generation's "wanna be" version of a Tupac because of all the hype Tupac got 20 years ago, this generation felt left out and needed a "down nigga" to believe in too.
As for my opinion of him.....like you I haven't heard any of his music and don't wish to.
I'm sorry that he got killed, but I wasn't very familiar with the brother.

But I am familiar with Tupac and not only was Tupac hyped up by the media to be the "leader" of AfroAmerican youth but he bares a major responsibility for so many AfroAmerican youth walking around to this very day with tatoos all over their bodies, refering to themselves as "thugs", and worshipping death and dysfunction.

 

 

 

 

The remaining 20-25% (you, I, Troy, Chev, etc.) are going to be extinct by 2050. I've maintained that forever. The black man and woman in the USA will not exist in 30 years. This was the white imperial plan since 1619 and it

 

The Black man and Black woman have no beginning and no ending in this world.
They've been trying to wipe out our people for thousands of years, but like Be Be's kids, instead of dying we multiply......lol.
We were MADE to be the toughest people on this planet for the purposes of surviving all of the tricks and brutality Caucasians have inflicted.  Anyone else would have BEEN gotten annihilated.....look at the Native Americans.

No brother, it's not extinction we should be worried about.
Infact, perhaps AfroAmericans NEED to "thin the herd" and get rid of the dead weight holding our community back.

Perhaps with the decent and intelligent Black people who remain, we might get our communities back to the condition they were in in the 1920s before all of the sexual confusion, crack babies, AIDS, gangsta rap, ect..., and from there....having learned from our mistakes....go in a direction we SHOULD have went.





 

 

This is true. But we know its coming. Bottomline is that we're still trying to impress a master, whether its liberals (probably 60% of ADOS) or Trump (probably 15% of ADOS). We've been conditioned to beg them for paychecks, for dignity, for respect, etc. We have no way to counter it. The most powerful black people in America are pushing white agendas. I'm going to be so sad when Minister Farrakhan passes away.


Now I'm feeling depressed!


Brother if you knew the REAL reason Trump was PUT in office for this day and time, you wouldn't be depressed....lol.
You would be saying to yourself, "Well it's about time!"

I'll leave it at that.

 

 



Troy

Yes because ADOS are greedy too.

half the country lives in, or near, poverty. Most of these people are white.


What I've seen from AfroAmericans seems to have more to do with gross ignorance and foolishness than greed.

Neely Fuller Jr. has warned us about these "White sacrifices" and how they don't care about their own lives as long as they can harm as many people of color as they can in order to support White Supremacy.

The truth is, we really don't KNOW what Caucasians are going through or how many of them ar going through it. We know what we SEE, but what if I were to tell you that many of those so-called "poor" Caucasians and drug addicts weren't even real, but ACTORS?
There are hundreds if not thousands of Caucasians on the streets of America dressed dirty and raggedy holding up signs and begging for money but THOUSANDS of dollars in the bank, good homes, and cars....they are PRETENDING to be poor and oppressed in order to trick people and DECEIVE people.

But since you don't believe in conspiracies you probably wouldn't believe this either....lol.

 

 

 

who can also disagree without running away


Lol......
Well, if you notice it's only been WOMEN who have chosen to leave and as usual it wasn't because they were threatened, harassed, or had anything sexual said to them (maybe that was the problem....lol). I've said time and time again that it's BLACK MALE LEADERSHIP that a lot of AfroAmerican women don't feel comfortable with, especially leadership they can't manipulate and side with them.
.


But no brother, I'm not depressed anymore. Thanks for the uplift!
I'm ALMOST back together now....lol...but what really got me isn't the situation that our people find themselves in in this nation. I've come to accept and understand that.
What got me was that Hurricane Dorian and how it just stood over that Black island and pounded it while waving at Florida before flying North.

Man....it's one thing when other humans are racist against you and oppress you; but when it seems as if NATURE HERSELF is against you or can be used by your enemy against you....man.
It really messes with your head.

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**THE OPINIONS EXPRESSED HERE DO NOT REPRESENT THOSE OF THE OWNER**

 

@Pioneer1 I'm surprised you'd expouse a belief in eugenics. No man is smart enough to make the devision on who needs to be dropped from the gene pool.  Nature does a pretty good job of handling that.

 

1 hour ago, Pioneer1 said:

Caucasians and drug addicts weren't even real, but ACTORS?

 

Pioneer when did the wheels comes off? All the white people i see in the gutter begging for money are actors? All the whites boys ODing and committing suicide are actors? White people shortening their life spans to haem Black people?

 

Do you believe people have been abducted by aliens or big foot?

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Troy

It's not Eugenics (which is really European genetics) but more like "Afro-genics" for the betterment of AFRICAN people and our genes.

But who got "got" wouldn't be based on IQ scores, DNA, or family lineage...but based on the malignantly self-destructive behavior of fully grown ADULTS who are for all intents and purposes "criminally insane" and pose a threat not only to themselves but to the rest of the community.

However it's just an idea that is entertained from time to time, not something I advocate.
Lol.....I mean.....do you honestly think Caucasians would allow Black people to clean up the mess they MADE of some of our people????


BTW, I erased the most aggressive and controversial parts of my statement while leaving the concept intact.


As far as so-called poor whites....
Actors can ACT like they're poor, ACT like they're on drugs, and ACT like they're dead as well.

You aren't seeing the bodies, you just hear what they're reporting on the news.

I live in a community that has a large number of Caucasians, many of them are drug addicts.
I see the Black addicts getting cuffed, frisked, thrown in jail, many of them not seen or heard from again....but I see the same Caucasian addicts on the same corners day after day year after year.

When I walk past them on the street they tend to remember who I am and many of them can hold an intelligent conversation.....but they're sleeping on the street with needles laying all around them.

Neely Fuller said the White Supremists are the smartest and most powerful people on the planet, you shouldn't put ANYTHING past them.

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You give white supremacists too much credit. People who believe in white supremacy are either ignorant or dumb. The fact we are still discussing the concept of race and the supposed superiority of one over the other is just plain stupid.

 

Now America's oligarchs, who are white, are devilishly brilliant at acquiring and retaining wealth and power. These people will engage anything from genocide to slavery -- even of their own so called race. Racism is another tool they use.

 

The white boy working in the coal mine, who is addicted to cigarettes, whose livelihood was destroyed by the BP oil spill, or who lost their home in the motgage crisis is not an actor, but is exploited and as disposable as you or I to the oligarchy.

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2 hours ago, Troy said:

People who believe in white supremacy are either ignorant or dumb.

 

LOL! Okay. Oh well. I guess I'll be okay, because I've been called ignorant and dumb and some other names too. @Troy

 

13 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

 

If I'm not mistaken I don't believe he was refering to a rapper.
Wakanda is the fictional (?) African nation that the movie Black Panther was based around.
I'm assuming you heard about it even if you didn't see it.

 

Thank you @Pioneer1 for explaining this! I've been told that the movie was good but I've not seen it yet.

I remember hearing the awards show and, I think, Spike Lee was upset over how it went.

 

13 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

You took the words right out of my mouth.
Nipsey is just THIS generation's "wanna be" version of a Tupac because of all the hype Tupac got 20 years ago, this generation felt left out and needed a "down nigga" to believe in too.

 

Well, I never heard of him too, but I believe that was engineered. So, I hope you realize the political aspect too. HIs music was rough, but amazing.

I don't believe it was his music that became important, but it was the fact that he was part-African--East African--from the Horn of Africa--from ERITREA and 

he met the president of Eritrea and well, UH, the president was speaking to him about 'economics, politics', and business deals' and this was his whole entire

theme for all of his music. --GETTING RID OF THE MIDDLE MAN-- 

He was uneducated and a high school drop out, was in a gang, and struggled to survive. Again, I never hear of him either until he died, but he was amazing, in his efforts.

He even alluded to issues though, that he may have regretted about Black-on-Black violence. 

He convince a prominent person from the other gang to work with him in stopping gang violence. 

 

 

13 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

.look at the Native Americans.

 

The Native Americans are not gone.

 

13 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

perhaps AfroAmericans NEED to "thin the herd" and get rid of the dead weight holding our community back.

 

We don't need to do that. 

13 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Brother if you knew the REAL reason Trump was PUT in office for this day and time, you wouldn't be depressed....lol.
You would be saying to yourself, "Well it's about time!"

I'll leave it at that.

 

No don't leave it at that. LOL. I want to know. @Pioneer1

13 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

they are PRETENDING to be poor and oppressed in order to trick people and DECEIVE people.

 

Hilarious! Oh but no, when it comes to the bigger picture, there are a lot of people on the bottom, however, I am so swamped in my being oppressed as an ADOS, I can barely address anything else!

 

But you made me remember one night my husband 'went-off' on this White man who rolled up to him at the gas pump soliciting him for money...I was so angry and embarrassed, but he got back in the car and reminded me that man and his brother are all over the area and he said to me, "Do you see that expensive electric wheel chair he's in? Can you even get welfare? Do you see how clean his clothes were?... I've seen the brothers all over the city and it's very large city, but it's hard for me to not give.

My son cracks me up too, about both Black men and White. One time he said, he gave  a dollar's worth of change to 'a brotha' and he said, after he turned and walked away, her heard the change clinging on the ground. The man cussed him out and told him that was not enough...

Then he said, Mom look, that White guy panning by this airport will cuss you out, if you don't give him what he thinks he should have...

 

some people...

 

 

13 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Lol......
Well, if you notice it's only been WOMEN who have chosen to leave

 

Wait-a-minute! ... a plus, there are other women that pop in from time to time.

 

 

 

 

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18 hours ago, Kareem said:

Instead of improving ourselves, we pick a master (liberals or the Trumps) and try to be the best slave possible. That means alphabet-cooning for liberals and shoulder-monkey-cooning for Trump. Those who don't succeed at one of those end up in prison and drinking 40s in front of the liquor store. The remaining 20-25% (you, I, Troy, Chev, etc.) are going to be extinct by 2050. I've maintained that forever. The black man and woman in the USA will not exist in 30 years. This was the white imperial plan since 1619 and its come to fruition.

 

 

@Kareem This is so scary, but right now, I just can't stop trying, no matter what. I am still in complete shock about this homosexual-pediphilia law. I can't believe it.

They have put that law 'through us', as if we had something to do with it. I can't believe it.

 

 

18 hours ago, Kareem said:

Hell, when I first saw Boyz in the Hood and Menace 2 Society, that shit shocked me. I'd never seen anything like that in real life.

 

Yes, me too, but I soon came to realize that some of these rich and famous rappers did experience some of what was put in film and this too, is strange to me. OUr system seems to seek out aggressive ADOS who have been severely victimized and then elevate them and give them 'a voice' and then, propagandize them globally. Some of them will later, try to turn back and show a better 'face' but by this time, it seems, the White Supremacist Movement has achieved what they wanted, in that many foreign people are encouraged to believe that ALL OF US over hear are saggin LGBT etc. etc. etc. That is what it seems like to me--victim exploitation elevated to highlight low standards and then define the whole culture. I feel we are being railroaded. But, I don't feel it is over though.

 

SAGGIN---NIGGAS--- read in reverse script form please. 

 

smh.

 

18 hours ago, Kareem said:

When I started trying to "talk black" after seeing those films as a kid, my dad and uncles beat my ass!

 

Lol! I had no choice, I went to an HBCU, so I had to pick up some of my peoples' 'second lango'. It was hard though, coming from my northern "Mister Rogers Neighborhood' where I sounded like a proper European American girl. My girlfriends--- or friend girls-- gave me a really hard time. 

 

18 hours ago, Kareem said:

I'm going to be so sad when Minister Farrakhan passes away. He's the last of the true black power movement. the destruction of black America will accelerate quickly thereafter. That and the fake preachers like Creflo Dollar, Sharpton and Jakes will keep flying around in private jets preaching fear and submissiveness to poor black folks.

 

Now I'm feeling depressed!

 

Me too! This is sad. But, as I said, it's impossible for me, for now, to stop thinking and doing... something. 

 

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3 hours ago, Chevdove said:

LOL! Okay. Oh well. I guess I'll be okay, because I've been called ignorant and dumb and some other names too. @Troy

 

To be clear, I meant white supremacists are ignorant or dumb.  White supremacy is, of course, quite real.

 

It is interesting to see I was not the only one who had not heard of Nipsey Hussle until his passing.  Again, the media covers the dysfunction (his murder) but not the good he was apparently doing in the community. 

 

It is also interesting to hear from Black people who knew nothing about Blank Panther, despite the outsized media coverage -- especially by Black media.  I saw the movie and was entertained, but I took it for what it was a low brow Marvel action flick created by white boys for mass appeal.  It was visually appealing because it had so many attractive Black people.  The film was also refreshing because Black people are shown in powerful roles.

 

I've have always rejected the notion of doing the "Wakandan salute" or embracing anything in Black Panther as if if was some actual representation of Black culture or history. Doing so just reminds me of the void left in old culture because of the european transatlantic slave trade.

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Kareem


I forgot to address this part last night........

 

You also notice how disco was the last CREATIVE genre of black music...where we actually played instrument and MADE music? Today disco is clowned as some circus act. They made stop MAKING music and created "rap" where you sample other people's music and talk over it. They even steal our creativity.

 

Yes sir.
And notice how the often self-destructive "rap" which started back in the late 70s seems to be the longest music genre of AfroAmerican history and like you said nothing new has came out of the youth up until now?
We were making up 2 and 3 genres every decade right up until the mid-80s.

And notice how the dance styles and dress styles have lost a lot of creativity also.


One of the reasons a lot of AfroAmerican artists aren't using musical instruments anymore is because they took music and band out of most public schools!
Back in the 50s, 60s, 70s, and 80s......like workshop and automechanic shop.....music was also taught in the schools!
You learned how to play the flute, the drums, the piano, and trumpet, ect...FOR FREE in school and a lot of AfroAmericans were coming out of highschool with skills that allowed them to make a good living and even get rich!


But another reason they are using fewer instruments in music today is more diabolical.....


Our brother Roger Troutman introduced the voice box in the 80s but the demons in the entertainment industry had other plans.


Africans were known for thousands of years as having the best and most beautiful voices.
But if you notice today, fewer AfroAmerican artists are using their REAL voices, and many of them can't even sing or hold a note.
Their REAL voices are being replaced with that computerized robotic "voice box" sound that robs them and their audience of the spiritual VIBRATION of the human voice.

Meanwhile a lot of Caucasians who formerly couldn't even hold a note, are sounding like Whitney Houston and hitting all types of notes!

Public Enemy asked "who stole the soul"????

We know who.

And the same plot is behind taking away real musical instruments like horns, drums, and guitars and replacing them with computerized sounds.   Every instrument has it's own set of VIBRATIONS that tune into the body and soul.  If you take that away and replace it with computerized sound and robot like sound then you confuse the soul and deprive it of that TRUE VIBRATION that soothes it.

They're using computers to lay the tracks for rap, but if you notice in Country Music they are still playing the pianos and guitars.

 

 

 



Troy


You give white supremacists too much credit. People who believe in white supremacy are either ignorant or dumb. The fact we are still discussing the concept of race and the supposed superiority of one over the other is just plain stupid.


Brother I wish I didn't have to give them any credit at all, but the facts are they RUN THE WORLD.
You cannot deny this.
You're cussing and shaking your fists at Amazon and other mega-corporations owned and operated by Caucasians, yet want to deny their power and authority.




The white boy working in the coal mine, who is addicted to cigarettes, whose livelihood was destroyed by the BP oil spill, or who lost their home in the motgage crisis is not an actor, but is exploited and as disposable as you or I to the oligarchy.


The difference between them and you is that they KNOW they are sacrificing themselves for White Supremacy and racism.
They may not say it, but they know it and are willing to go along with it because they belong to the "hive" mentality.

To be clear you have White actors and White sacrifices:


White Actor

The White Actors aren't suffering, they are just PRETENDING to suffer in public to garner sympathy and trick people of color into believing that it's not racism that's creating the problems in the world but greed, climate change, sexism, drug epidemic, capitalism, ect......
Their jobs is to RE-DIRECT you and throw you off the path of the real problem and those who are causing it.

There is a large "climate change" protest going on today and this is a good example of Actors who are pretending to be outraged about something THEY are responsible for.



White Sacrifice

The White sacrifices ARE suffering, but they either don't mind or don't care. Ofcourse a few are what you call "cannon fodder" who inadvertently get hurt by the powerful racists when they are aiming at people of color. But the White sacrifices for the MOST part understand the system of White Supremacy and understand their role as peasants and serfs in it and accept their lot in life. They see themselves as sacrificing for a greater "good" or and idea much bigger than themselves.
Kind of like how a knight in medival Europe would gladly give his life in honor of the Queen.

A good example of this would be the 53% (probably more) of Caucasian women who voted for Trump ALTHOUGH he was clearly caught on tape being sexist and demeaning towards women.  They knew his character, they didn't care.....they'll gladly sacrifice themselves and their freedoms for the GREATER cause!

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58 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said:

You're cussing and shaking your fists at Amazon and other mega-corporations owned and operated by Caucasians,

 

Yes, but what you are failing to realize is that ... (pausing briefly as I get on top of my chair to yell as loudly as I can) THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH RACE!! 

 

Amazon actually adversely affects FAR MORE white people than Black people.  How many websites are there like AALBC.... Answer: None!  Is it because of racism? No, it is because the world wide web is dominated by a few companies who crush competitors big and small in ways you don't appreciate.  Great Black book websites have been killed in the crib and the barrier to entry for new ones is far too high.

 

Sure, Amazon is run and largely owned by white people. Now some of white people may actually be racist, but that is immaterial, as the motivation of these people is making more money.  Amazon does not discriminate; they will crush a Borders and B&N just as quickly as they would an AALBC -- indeed Amazon isn't even thinking about an AALBC. 

 

You are so desperate to attribute the actions of white people to racism that you'd rather believe poor white people are "actors" or willingly sacrificing themselves in the name of racism while completely ignore what another Black man is telling you about his experience in the real world.

 

The problem of the 21st century is still the color line, but that color is green.

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Troy
 

You give white supremacists too much credit. People who believe in white supremacy are either ignorant or dumb. The fact we are still discussing the concept of race and the supposed superiority of one over the other is just plain stupid.

 

Man, they are CONTROLING THE WEATHER.
....either them or "Whoever" is helping them.

 

Image result for hurricane dorian


That doesn't sound like stupidity to me.


Some people may use that same argument you're using to make the claim that SLAVERY and COLONIALISM has nothing to do with race.
They may say it was just a bunch of greedy corporatists, land owners, and nobility of Europe who conspired to confiscate land and mistreat people from around the world and race was just a "tool".

My question is, if race has nothing to do with the large corporatists of today and their aggressive bid to control as much of the planet and her resources as possible......then what percentage of this group are NON-Caucasian?

If Caucasians make up less than 20% of the world's population and race has nothing to do with it, I should find almost FAR MORE more wealthy and powerful NON-Caucasians in positions of leadership who are exploiting the masses on this planet as Caucasians.

I think you should turn it around......
Rather than saying it's all about money and racism is a tool-
You should say it's all about race and money is just a tool.

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9 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Some people may use that same argument you're using to make the claim that SLAVERY and COLONIALISM has nothing to do with race.

 

They would be correct too. Slavery does not have anything to do with race. This is what made America's version "peculiar." White people here made it a above -- even going as far as enslaving their own children born of enslaved women.

 

9 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Europe who conspired to confiscate land and mistreat people

 

Europeans mistreated each other for far longer than they mistreated Bkack people. in fact they spent more time learning from Black people than enslaving them. 

 

If course you know Bkack peolle henefited from the transatlantic skave trade too. Was there motivation race too?

 

9 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

If Caucasians make up less than 20% of the world's population and race has nothing to do with it, I should find almost FAR MORE more wealthy and powerful NON-Caucasians

 

You are looking at it wrong, because you are assuming the entire world wants to be like Jeff Bezos. This is not true today nor was it ever.

 

Further, European "dominance" is just a flash in the pan on the scale of world civilization. Consider the British Empire; how long did their rain last?  Compare that to any ancient African civilization. 

 

If you view things in perspective and within a historical context you could not continue to be so fixated on race as the sole motivator for people -- including luding so called white ones.

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Troy

White people here made it a above -- even going as far as enslaving their own children born of enslaved women.


Because you refuse to see the paramount factor that RACE plays in slavery, you're not seeing the fact that the reason they could enslave their "own" children is because they were NOT WHITE like them.....so they felt it was justified.

If it weren't about race and were instead about money, morals, ect....then they would have treated their mixed offspring as most fathers would treat their children. But the non-White status of these children prevented them from doing that in that RACE-based institution.

 

 

 

If course you know Bkack peolle henefited from the transatlantic skave trade too. Was there motivation race too?


Yes.
Racial self-hatred.

You must understand that many of the Africans who sold other Africans into slavery were adherants to Christianity and Islam. They were already influenced by the anti-African Europeans and Arabs who taught them these religions.   Kind of like what's going on in Sudan today where you have one group of Africans mistreating and enslaving another group because of racism.  One group of Africans think they are Arabs and are oppressing the Africans who aren't for racist reasons.

 

 

 

 

Further, European "dominance" is just a flash in the pan on the scale of world civilization. Consider the British Empire; how long did their rain last? Compare that to any ancient African civilization.

If you view things in perspective and within a historical context you could not continue to be so fixated on race as the sole motivator for people -- including luding so called white ones.


Troy, when you look at most of history (his-story) you're just looking at one Caucasian civilization replacing the other.

The original Black civilization of Sumer was replaced by the Babylonian Caucasian empire which was replaced by the Persian Caucasian empire which was replaced by the Greek Caucasian Empire which was replaced by the Roman Caucasian empire which was replaced by  Caucasians who converted to Christianity.

The Aryan Caucasians came down and invaded India and displaced the Black Dravidians but the British Caucasians eventually overan the Aryan Caucasians and colonized India.....lol.

The British Caucasians conquered and took land from the Native Americans and put some British people here but eventually THOSE Caucasians didn't want the British Caucasians telling them what to do anymore so they fought the British and established the United States so THEY could start telling other people what to do....lol.

Man....just one group of Caucasians fighting ANOTHER over who's gonna rule the world.

Even the so-called World Wars and "Cold War" were about which group of Caucasians were going to rule over the darker world.

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3 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

RACE plays in slavery, you're not seeing the fact that the reason they could enslave their "own" children is because they were NOT WHITE like them.....so they felt it was justified.

 

Dude many of these children where so white they could pass. It was about money. 

 

3 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

You must understand that many of the Africans who sold other Africans into slavery were adherants to Christianity and Islam.

 

Why would these regions make Africans hate themselves? Both religions stared in Africa. Besides whats does this have do with race? 

 

3 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Even the so-called World Wars and "Cold War" were about which group of Caucasians were going to rule over the darker world.

 

So the germans were putting each other in gas chambers to rule over darker people? The Japanese were slaughtering it3her Asians to rule over africans and Americans dropped two nukes on Japan to rule over bkack people?

 

3 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

The original Black civilization of Sumer was replaced by the Babylonian Caucasian empire

 

So you are saying king Hammurabi was a white? Still black Africanscwere to first people to establish any form to civilization far longer than any white civilization.

 

Do you think America the world's most piwerful nation will reign supreme for another 1,000 years if not who will take over ... france?

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Troy



Why would these regions make Africans hate themselves? Both religions stared in Africa. Besides whats does this have do with race?


Well Christianity DEFINATELY didn't start in Africa, it started near the Caucasus mountains in and area known as TURKEY today.
As far as Islam, as an organized religion it's origins are in Arabia but I know you consider that part of Africa so there's no sense in arguing with you over that one....lol.

But the religious scriptures sub-consciously influence Africans to hate themselves and love Caucasians with scriptures that use terms like "light" and "white" for good and clean and pure and "dark" and "black" for that which is bad.

Also, the Europeans and Arabs who came to many of these African nations came with higher technology and more knowledge which made many of the Africans WANT to associate with them and imitate them in order to "improve" their status and set themselves apart from the other Africans.
You see this in Sudan today and how the Africans who call themselves "Arab" think they're better than and make war against the "non-Arab" Africans although both look the same.
Or in other African nations where the Christian Africans who are educated by Europeans and went to school in the West think they're better than the so-called "pagan" Africans who still follow their traditional religions and cultures.

It's realy self-hatred and an attempt to be more and more like the European and Arab and less like their own African selves, so to show how loyal they are they will even go as far as to enslave and help kill other Africans like they're doing in Sudan and some other parts of Africa today.

 

 

 

So the germans were putting each other in gas chambers to rule over darker people?


You are over-simplifying it by saying "germans" were doing this to eachother.
That's like pointing at Michael Brown being shot down in Ferguson and asking why were the people protesting just because "Americans" are shooting eachother down in the streets instead of acknowledging a racist Caucasian America shot down an innocent Afro American which would be more specific.

In Germany, these were a very narrow SELECT group of WASP Germans who were targetting Jews, Gypsies, and Slavic Germans who THEY claim had non-white ancestry and they were doing it for RACIAL reasons. They were doing it to get rid of what they thought was "black blood" tainting the German nation.

So yes, they were doing it to rule over darker people but in a more indirect way.



 

So you are saying king Hammurabi was a white? Still black Africanscwere to first people to establish any form to civilization far longer than any white civilization.


I'm not sure what race/color Hammurabi was.
The first civilization of Sumeria was a Black civilization before the Caucasian Akkadians came down from the mountains and established what would later be called Babylon.
Where Hammurabi fit in with this....I'm not sure.


 

 

 

Do you think America the world's most piwerful nation will reign supreme for another 1,000 years if not who will take over ... france?


I believe so, yes.
Infact, I believe the nation "America" will rule far longer than 1000 years.
....but that's all I'll say about that for now, lol.

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1 hour ago, Pioneer1 said:

Well Christianity DEFINATELY didn't start in Africa

 

Where does all the activity in the Bible actually take place?  Are you familiar with Osiris, Isis, and Horus the principles in the Egyptian create story?  Christianity borrows quite liberally from this..,

 

1 hour ago, Pioneer1 said:

Also, the Europeans and Arabs who came to many of these African nations came with higher technology

 

What technology would that be?  It would take Europeans several millennia to build anything on the scale of the Pyraminds

 

1 hour ago, Pioneer1 said:

In Germany, these were a very narrow SELECT group of WASP Germans who were targetting Jews, Gypsies, and Slavic Germans

 

 Yes, but all of these people are "white," using your language.

 

We can continue refuting each other statements @Pioneer1, but let me ask you this question.  Do you think Jeff Bezos is motivated more by money (and the power it brings) or race?

 

1 hour ago, Pioneer1 said:

I'm not sure what race/color Hammurabi was.

 

He was what you'd call Black.

 

 

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Troy


Where does all the activity in the Bible actually take place? Are you familiar with Osiris, Isis, and Horus the principles in the Egyptian create story? Christianity borrows quite liberally from this..,


Where the events of the Bible took place is irrelevant in terms of establishing where the religion of Christianity was founded. The first "republics" took place in Italy but that fact has little relevance on the events taking place in THIS Republic thousands of miles away and thousands of years afterwards called the United States.

Also, although I'm familiar with the Osiris and Isis myth....I have reason to believe that this myth did not originate in ancient Egypt.

Never the less, the fact is Christianity did NOT start in Africa regardless as to how many bits and pieces of African philosophy and mythology they may have used to make-up the religion.
It's foundations are in Europe/West Asia.

 

 

 

 

What technology would that be? It would take Europeans several millennia to build anything on the scale of the Pyraminds


They didn't need pyramids and oblisks.....all they needed to conquer much of Africa and colonize it was their guns, cannons, armored horses, ect...
That technology alone was enough to get the job done.

 

 

 

 

Yes, but all of these people are "white," using your language.


In my language they would be "Caucasian".....lol.
YOU are fond of using the term "White" which is why I use it for discussion purposes, but in reality most of the people called "White" vary in color from pale White to Tan.   Also, although the people Hitler persecuted were pretty much all of the same race (although there were some African and Asian victims), they were still percecuted for RACIST reasons because Hitler and the Nazis thought these fellow Caucasians had too much "African" ancestry in them.

Infact, it was the Caucasians of Germany and Austria who LOOKED White but were suspected of having African ancestry from long long ago like the Yiddish, the Slavic, the Gypsies, ect...... that the Nazi's were MOST worried about because you couldn't look at them and tell they had any African in them but they believed it was "hiding" in their genes and would be spread through sexual relationships.

Their ideaology was twisted, but they believed in it very strongly.





Do you think Jeff Bezos is motivated more by money (and the power it brings) or race?


I believe he's motivated more by power and money.
Just because someone is a racist, doesn't mean it's the MOST important thing in their life.

John Wayne was a racist, but I believe he cared more about his Hollywood career than keeping the races separated.

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OK I see we are not going to on racism.

 

Even a cursory view of history tells us that people did not see race the way you do -- even just a few hundred years ago.  There were Black popes and white people went to Africa to learn. White supremacy is a relatively new concept, born of the transatlantic slave trade.  It is also a concept that will likely die with our generation people like you who will never let go of it. 

 

But if know Bezos is motivated by money not race, surely you can understand the similarly wealthy slave owners of the Antebellum South were motivated by money as well.  Racism was a tool. 

 

Sure there will also be racists, just like there are people who still believe the earth is flat, but they will be perceived as crack pots by the vast majority of people. 

 

 

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Troy

You're mixing up apples with oranges with cauliflower with zuccini....lol.
Making a lot of hopeful statements but they aren't jibing with the facts we know from history.

Racism will not "die out" as long as Caucasians exist with other races because the sociological and psychological differences between the races that are based on the GENETIC and BIOLOGICAL differences between those races will....as it has in the past....FORCE conflict between the races that fuel racism.

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On 9/20/2019 at 8:40 AM, Chevdove said:

OUr system seems to seek out aggressive ADOS who have been severely victimized and then elevate them and give them 'a voice' and then, propagandize them globally.

 

Hey @Chevdove I know I'm late responding to all this. But this point is very real. @Pioneer1 pointed out how Nipsey Hussle is the Tupac Shakur for Millennials. Sounds about right. I never have and never will understand the obsession with Tupac by black Americans. He's just a typical thug. What has he done to uplift, educate, motivate, etc.? NOTHING. Again, I know nothing about Hustle. But I believe what Pioneer said because it makes sense.

 

On 9/20/2019 at 8:40 AM, Chevdove said:

But, as I said, it's impossible for me, for now, to stop thinking and doing... something. 

 

Let's face it - many of the gripes African and Caribbean immigrants have against have against the ADOS masses are real. Honestly I don't want to be around a lot of ADOS. We're conditioned to be EMPLOYEES (slaves), but business owners. The latter is what this country is built on. Working for someone else means they own you. Thus slavery never ended. I won't stop expressing these truths and trying to motivate our people. It's just difficult. Ya know?

 

On 9/20/2019 at 12:29 PM, Pioneer1 said:

We were making up 2 and 3 genres every decade right up until the mid-80s.

And notice how the dance styles and dress styles have lost a lot of creativity also.

 

I'm going to dig up this podcast from my uncle in 2007. It addresses these exact points. Not only have dance and dress styles lost creativity. They have devolved into demented sexual debauchery. Disco will always be my favorite genre of ADOS movement for its groovy creativity. Good news is that I help fund music classes for select black youth in Phoenix. Their parents FORCE them into the classes at age 5. The kids hate it at first (they'd rather be rappin and foolin). But they recognize the creativity and the talent/skill they are developing. We're hoping to produce and develop REAL black bands in the next five years or so when the kids are a little older. We and the parents don't want kids being exploited. Must say...they are QUITE good. Our first act has a jazzy, funky yet 2019 sound. Hard to explain. But stay tuned! :)

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Aw man @Kareem, I'd have to disagree with you on your assessment of Tupac. No one is a "typical thug." To reduce any Black man to that cliche ignores the entire history of our experience in this country. I don't think I'm anymore enamored of Tupac than you are.

 

As far as your work with the young musicians keep up the good work!

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Whatever nomenclature you choose, Tupac is/was "produced." I've asked probably 30 black folks over the last 15-20 years to name something positive, tangible and/or good Tupac has done for black people to deserve this god status he apparently has. Most just get mad and start attacking me for asking the question. True be told, I've read de-classified FBI documents that say, in so many words, that Tupac's entire family history and shtick were produced by government for manipulation and control.

 

But again, my point just echoes a good point made by @Pioneer1 - that Nipsey Hustle is to Millennials as Tupac was to Generation X. Make sense. I hear the words "legend" and "great" associated with these guys. But I hear nothing tangible. Hell, something as simple as promoting marriage and raising strong, intelligent ladies and gentlemen would be something tangible. Neither of these guys can even claim that.

 

Wish we could expand the music program further. Always about funding. We're forced to choose the most talented kids and let the rest go. We still help them buy used guitars, basses, amp, etc. But the key is respecting and compensating the instructors, who are retired funk, blues and rock-n-roll musicians. They love the program so they do it for [relatively] small compensation and huge impact. Lots of old school black musicians retired in Phoenix.

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Again, I was unfamiliar with Nipsey until he was murdered.  I believe I understand what you are saying @Kareem.  I often push back on embracing someone as a "hero" that some record executive created -- I don't recognize Jay-Z or Kanye for the these reasons.  Sure, they get to the white house and are celebrated as thought leaders, sages knowledge about the Black community.  Meanwhile true Black intellectuals are marginalized.

 

At the end of the day these guys are entertainers and we can even argue about how good they are at that. I'd take anything Curtis Mayfield created over anything Jay-Z has created.

 

I'm sure any of the retired musicians working with your students are at least as talented and certainly more entertaining than Tupac was.  Could Tupac read music and play an instrument?  Again, if writing rhymes and reciting them to music someone else wrote is the extent of Tupac's talent that is really not all that impressive in the context of the musical talent or rappers I'm aware of...

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Troy

Glad to see the site is back up and running!
What happend?



Kareem

Good for you keeping our traditions alive by teaching them to our youth.
Hell, if Americans of German ancestry can keep THEIR traditions alive teaching their young people how to dance around in shorts and suspenders....we should be keeping OUR much more creative and colorful traditions alive in our youth.

I've said for years that we should have a "hip hop" school and teach our youth how to Break Dance since it's one of that most fascinating dances we've come up with so far and has universal appeal.


Tupac.......

Many AfroAmerican youth liked and still like Tupac because they can relate to him. People like celebrities they can relate to whether or not that relationship is based on healthy or pathological characteristics.  And they also liked his boldness and "bravado".
Gangsta rappers like Tupac had a way of expressing the way many angry young Black men felt but were unable to express or act out for fear of the consequences.  Again, many of these feelings may be pathological and just plain illogical.....but they still related to them.


It's funny that Troy mentioned Curtis Mayfield.
Starting around the early to mid 70s with Superfly and the like, unlike most other communities who are rampant with crime but still believe in putting on an innocent face in public....for some reason a significant percentage of AfroAmerican society began to OPENLY embrace criminality and immorality and that percentage has continued to increase right up until today not caring how they looked to other peoples.

Before then....
The standard for whether or not you were a real "man" and down for your peoples used to be how bold you stood up to White racism and challenged the system.....but in the 70s it was replaced by how bold you were in breaking the law and engaging in a life of crime and kill another "nigga".

So just like Malik Shabazz (Malcolm X), Kwame Ture (Stokely Carmichael), and Jamil Al-Amin (H Rap Brown) were popular with the youth of their era for how bold they were in challenging the white racist system....it would logically follow that Tupac, NWA, Mike Tyson, and other famous Black figures who boldly bragged about being criminals, killing "niggaz", and just being plain immoral would be popular with the youth of their era.

And following that logic even further........
Just like King and Abernathy were clowned on for being too soft on racism, rappers like Will Smith and Hammer would be clowned by many of the youth in their era for not being "gangsta" or criminal enough!

With that said, with all of his faults do think Tupac was very charismatic and had more sense than he let on which is one of the reasons I quote him from time to time.  He had a lot of potential, but he was morally disoriented and in many ways a victim of the very system his mother spent much of HER youth fighting.

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32 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said:

it would logically follow that Tupac, NWA, Mike Tyson, and other famous Black figures who boldly bragged about being criminals,

 

Mike Tyson is different from all the others you mentioned. Tyson is arguably the best boxer of all-time during his prime. He did something measurable and did it far better, prettier and more dominate than all his contemporaries in the 1980s and early 1990s. Prison and Cus D'Amato's death ruined Mike Tyson. But Mike's accomplishments are measurable and great. "Tupac is the best rapper" is an opinion about an arbitrary position. There are no easily-accessible measurables other than record sales that distinguish music artists. Mike Tyson was the measurable-greatest at his craft for like 8 years; and arguably the greatest ever in his prime. That is admirable and cool.

 

34 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said:

Just like King and Abernathy were clowned on for being too soft on racism, rappers like Will Smith and Hammer

 

I don't think MLK and Will Smith are in the same category. Mike Tyson and Tupac are both entertainers. Troy mentioned how all these guys are ultimately just entertainers. MLK was an activist, a front-line warrior. Yes, I am on the side that he was soft at times during his tenure. But not because he wasn't acting gangsta. I felt then and now that more forceful tactics and game plans are/were necessary for black Americans to prosper and break the grip of shame. Muhammad Ali was the ultimate activist, entertainer and warrior all in one. That's why he's great.

 

That all said, I'm a big Poetic Justice and Juice fan. I also like that "Keep Ya Head Up" CD.

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@Pioneer1 The children's book content on the site went viral crippling the web server for almost two weeks. I have upgraded the hardware so the likeihood of that happening again is greatly reduced. Welcome back!

 

 

10 hours ago, Kareem said:

Muhammad Ali was the ultimate activist,

 

He was a excellent boxer, but activist humm... i dunno. The way he dogged Malcolm X and Joe Frazier... I'd be reluctant in calling him the "ultimate" activist. 

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14 hours ago, Troy said:

He was a excellent boxer, but activist humm... i dunno. The way he dogged Malcolm X and Joe Frazier... I'd be reluctant in calling him the "ultimate" activist. 

 

The full quote is representative of my views: "Muhammad Ali was the ultimate activist, entertainer and warrior all in one. That's why he's great." Yes he's the ultimate activist. He voluntarily gave up boxing riches and material title/championship belts. White society forced Ali to choose between fighting for their imperial empire in Vietnam or give up his money and belts. Ali chose the latter. That's admirably, courageous and beautiful. That's why Ali is Ali.

 

Ali may have dogged Malcolm and Frazier. These men were all on levels I've never been. All I can do is objectively look at their conflicts and take them for what they are. I respect Ali as much as I do Malcolm X. They were on the front line in an important phase of black American history. Ali and Malcolm inspired black people to be great. They had disagreements based on numerous things. That's not for me to judge. Both men had influenced me positively.

 

Frazier is just a boxer. A great fighter for sure. But he's not a transcendent figure like Ali and Malcolm. Frazier did not advocate for black people directly or indirectly. He didn't advocate sacrifice for the better good, like Ali and Malcolm. He's not on their level of greatness as men. Frazier is a great boxer though and I respect him very much for that.

 

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9 hours ago, Kareem said:

Frazier is just a boxer. A great fighter for sure. But he's not a transcendent figure like Ali and Malcolm. Frazier did not advocate for black people directly or indirectly. He didn't advocate sacrifice for the better good, like Ali

 

Man I have to disagree here. We all fall prey to the stories white media create. One minute they they tell us Ali is a traitor the next they tell us he is beloved.

 

Ali trashed Frazier mercilessly while never doing the same to white opponents. Fraizer ran a gym actively working in the community developing another generation of athletes he was ignored by the white community and as a result the larger Black communty (outside of Philadelphia). White racists in Philadelphia chose to erect a statue of the fictional Rocky Balbos over an actual heavyweight champion Joe Frazier.

 

Joe Fraizer was a great man and boxer whether the mainstream media chooses to recognize it or not.

 

Ali was in the NOI and could not join the military. His stance was more a consequence of being a follower of Elijah Muhammad than any personal conviction. Prominent members running afoul of the NOI suffered consequences.

 

When you describe Ali as the "ultimate activist" you are indeed judging. The man was complicated and i don't want to come across as diminishing his impact, but at the same time I don't want exaggerate his role as an activist and marginalize Fraizer.

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Troy

Thanks

I was concerned for a second or two...lol.

 

 

 


Kareem

Both Tupac and Tyson were great at their professions.
Tupac may not have been the "best" rapper, but in my opinion he was an excellent lyricist despite the content of his lyrics.
But the point I was making with them as examples was that BOTH were morally depraved (not the right word) disoriented, constantly in and out of trouble for violent and socially disruptive behavior, and incidently both ended up in prison for allegedly rape. And despite this moral disorientation they were highly acclaimed in the AfroAmerican community and especially among many AfroAmerican males for their boldness and unapologetic expression of "urban masculinity".

My point in bringing up King and Abernathy was to draw an analogy between them and the Malcolms and Huey Newtons of that time and how their apparently "softness" made them less popular with young AfroAmerican males the same way the apparent "softeness" of Hammer and Smith made them less popular than Ice Cube or Tupac who were considered more criminal and harder.


Despite their profession.....Civil Rights Activist or Professional Entertainer....my point is that the masses of AfroAmerican males will relate more to the bolder, more masculine, "harder" figure and not the more reserved one because the bolder figures are more likely to express the suppresses frustrations of the masses.

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@Pioneer1 No problem. It was a very stressful period. 

‐----‐--------

So you are saying that the masses relate more to Iron Mike than to MLK? Do you? I don't.

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On 11/6/2019 at 9:04 PM, Troy said:

We all fall prey to the stories white media create.

 

I couldn't care less about white media and their narratives. I assume you're equating my position on Frazier to me accepting some white media narrative? That's fine if that's your position. I'm not going to tug-of-war that.

 

On 11/6/2019 at 9:04 PM, Troy said:

 

Ali was in the NOI and could not join the military. His stance was more a consequence of being a follower of Elijah Muhammad

 

Cassius Clay joined the NOI and became Muhammad Ali. He did so because of his convictions and beliefs. Ali WILLINGLY was stripped of his belts and participation in high-income fights because he refused to be a pawn of white imperialism. Ali was convicted of draft dodging and was not allowed to fight and earn a living for four years (1967-1971 I believe). He only avoided prison because he paid the bond while on appeal. The US Supreme Court ultimately overturned his conviction in 1971. But Ali made a living during that time by giving IMPRESSIVE, INSPIRATIONAL speeches and other stuff.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqOE2zTlg3E

 

Further, Frazier and Ali were actually closer friends than "white media" portrays. They both understood "the game." This interview shows that (the 4:45 mark is a great example).

 

https://youtu.be/mgbFj-z8eG8?t=286

 

On 11/6/2019 at 9:04 PM, Troy said:

I don't want exaggerate his role as an activist and marginalize Fraizer.

 

I never marginalized Frazier. You just assumed that. I very much respect Joe Frazier as a great boxer and great man. Muhammad Ali simply was more blunt and forward about his pro-blackness and anti-white imperialism. I respect that more.

 

On 11/8/2019 at 2:30 PM, Pioneer1 said:

my point is that the masses of AfroAmerican males will relate more to the bolder, more masculine, "harder" figure

 

I agree with that, in 2018 and back. The conversation between @Troy and I also strengthens your argument.  I mean, more black youth love Tariq Nasheed vs. Antonio Moore these days because the previous is more assertive and blunt. But I also notice a trend towards the Roland Martin/Van Jones types getting all the white press and love in 2019--thus making young black men believe being a soft, liberal effeminate is the path to $$, with dignity and pride distant third and fourth wants/needs.

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From all that I've seen Ali rejected Malcolm for renouncing the NOI

 

 

23 hours ago, Kareem said:

I never marginalized Frazier.

 

@Kareem if your following quote does not marginalize Frazier, then I don't know the definition of marginalization. You've elevated Ali WAY above Frazier. Both men were great fighters and Frazier was an asset to his community but greatly marginalized by the mainstream culture -- unlike Ali who was deified later in life.

 

On 11/6/2019 at 2:27 PM, Kareem said:

Frazier is just a boxer. A great fighter for sure. But he's not a transcendent figure like Ali and Malcolm.

 

I bet if the NOI was as strong as it was when both Ali and Malcolm were in it Ali would never have become a media darling.

 

As far a Ali and Frazier being friends I dunno, but I doubt they were BFF's.  In any case Ali talking about Frizer like a dog which I did not care for.  I also recognize that Ali recognized the Frazier was sensitive and used that against him. A tactic which backfired against Kenny Norton

 

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Troy

 

So you are saying that the masses relate more to Iron Mike than to MLK? Do you? I don't.

 

No, because I personally respect and admire intelligence and charisma OVER mere brute aggression and bravado, although I've had to use both to get things done in the community.


However, I believe the masses of young urban AfroAmerican males...definately relate more to Iron Mike than they do Martin Luther "Da" King.

I don't know of any young AfroAmericans who don't have a measure of honor for King and what he's done, even those who call him a "sell out" will readily acknowledge his intelligence and love for his people despite criticizing his methods.
But as far as who is considered more "relatable", Tyson would win.
How many people PERIOD let alone poor urban AfroAmerican men can relate to a well educated social activist and high-achiever with a doctorate (besides maybe you)?  Most will see someone like that far and above their reach to relate to.

But a Black man from the hood who grew up running from the police, fighting, and getting in trouble and despite his limited intellect and limited vocabulary doesn't hesitate to speak his mind and stand up for himself.....the masses of young AfroAmerican males definately admire those qualities and feel they can emulate and achieve them.

 

 

 

 

 


Kareem


I mean, more black youth love Tariq Nasheed vs. Antonio Moore these days because the previous is more assertive and blunt. But I also notice a trend towards the Roland Martin/Van Jones types getting all the white press and love in 2019--thus making young black men believe being a soft, liberal effeminate is the path to $$, with dignity and pride distant third and fourth wants/needs.


What you said about Tariq vs Antonio is absolutely true and on top of his assertiveness, Tariq has far more charisma which is always a plus when dealing with people. I've only listened to Antonio a few times so far and he's usually with Yvette. Maybe it's because he's a lawyer but he seems more scholarly...which I personally like.....but this also makes you less relatable to the masses of urban youth.

As far as Roland Martin and Jones........
On top of being complacent and only mildly critical of White Supremacy, a major problem with these men is that they simply have no following.

They....like Al Sharpton....are basically negroes who have a lot to say, but don't have enough power from the streets or from the masses of AfroAmericans at any level to really get things done.
If Tariq came out next week and said niccaz need to get down to Houston Texas and turn that city upside down.....it would happen.
If Minister Farrakhan said the same thing...you KNOW it would happen.
If Roland or Jones were to say something like that (I know...never) not only would their call get no response but it would probably backfire on them and people would assume they were just agents trying to provoke them into trouble.

They are what Neely Fuller Jr calls "Black spokespersons".
A slave or prisoner who can articulate their condition better than the average slave/prisoner, but still have no power to change it.

 

 

 

 

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@Troy I'm well aware of the Malcolm vs. Ali rivalry. I respect and learned a lot from both men. I'm not commenting on their rivalry. Both were equal students under Elijah Muhammad and both were inspirational, powerful global figures. Not much else to say about that. Yes, Ali was more inspirational, more charismatic and more "meter-moving" than Frazier. If you want to call that marginalization, fine. I've stated my position. No, Ali and Frazier weren't BFF's. But again, they understood that their perceived mutual animosity was part of the overall show that both men handsomely.

 

20 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Tariq has far more charisma which is always a plus when dealing with people.

 

I'm starting to question all of their genuine motives. I tried leaving an objective comment on one of Tariq's Youtube videos the other day and he deleted it. I've always like Tariq's perceived goals, but his armor is receiving lots of dents. That public between feud between he and Umar Johnson was the first warning sign. They both CHILDISHLY attacked one another on social media because each exposed the other's hustle. Now this feud with Tariq vs. Antonio and Yvette is really getting sad.

 

I don't think its much of a secret that Yvette likes women and advocates for the alphabets; and Tone advocates for voting "down ballot" for Democrats no matter what. I was already skeptical of those two because of the aforementioned. Tariq is kind of making a fool of himself right now attacking them over some lawsuit with Comcast and the billionaire black man. Between this feud and Tariq vs. Umar, Tariq is proven to be over-sensitive and self-serving in some ways. That doesn't take away from the brother's great filmmaking career. But he's definitely more Tupac than Malcolm. Just more 400 years of black divide.

 

21 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

If Minister Farrakhan said the same thing...you KNOW it would happen.

 

Agreed and with the powerless, puppet liberal negroes. I think Tariq is damaging his image big-time over the last week with this ADOS vs. FBA stuff. I know the black masses are DESPERATE for leadership so we give people a lot of leeway. But judging from comments on his Twitter and Youtube feeds, he's losing support for pettiness. But then again, the ADOS organization is also losing credibility in lieu of #ADOS our people. Its the same thing as Black Lives Matter. The previous is a true statement that bonds us all. #BlackLivesMatter is a liberal LGBT front group/organization funded by Democrats and enriching Delray and those three chicks. The ADOS organization (Tone, Yvette, etc.) are liberal Democrats too. Quite sad actually, but this is yet another chapter in black people being used for white agendas.

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6 hours ago, Kareem said:

#BlackLivesMatter is a liberal LGBT front group/organization funded by Democrats and enriching Delray and those three chicks. The ADOS organization (Tone, Yvette, etc.) are liberal Democrats too. Quite sad actually, but this is yet another chapter in black people being used for white agendas.

 

What is the agenda white are using Blacklivesmatter and yvette to promote?

 

Yes @Pioneer1 I do relate more to King than I due to Tyson. But I have things in common with Tyson, and differences with King. As fars as the Black "masses" you might be right but I don't know.

 

 

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31 minutes ago, Troy said:

What is the agenda white are using Blacklivesmatter and yvette to promote?

 

#BlackLivesMatter is a black LGBT group. The brother Darren Seals was on the front line of Ferguson before he was "mysteriously murdered." He reported straight up how all these homophile, well-funded niggas showed up in St. Louis/Ferguson, and usurped the movement.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGFLqjqe-fA

 

#BLM BlackLivesMatter the organization(s) exist for the white liberal agenda (LGBT). I don't think Yvette specifically is promoting a white agenda. I think all of them (Yvette, Tone, Tariq) are reacting to that New York Times article from a few days ago about ADOS and who gets credit for being leaders of it and founding it. I was saying this current feud is across-the-board nigga shit caused by white media. Frankly I don't know much about Yvette or Tone. I do know what they encourage black people to vote for Democrats; thus they are partisan. Partisan means white agenda to me.

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Kareem

That public between feud between he and Umar Johnson was the first warning sign. They both CHILDISHLY attacked one another on social media because each exposed the other's hustle. Now this feud with Tariq vs. Antonio and Yvette is really getting sad.


I couldn't have agreed with you more on the Tariq/Umar beef. It was not only embarassing but just down right disappointing. I was far more disappointed at those two brothers going at it than I was over the alleged Eastcoast/Westcoast feud because I expected that type of ignorance and bravado coming from rappers and street cats, but not from brothers who considered themselves "conscious" and woke.

But I believe it was either Lenon Honor or Willie D was speaking on the issue and said to let people beef and pop off because the more they do so the more they expose things about their opponents the public may not have known and probably need to and the more THEY reveal about themselves as well. I now know how sensitive to all criticizm and petty (even he admits to this) Tariq is because of his feuds with others and I also know how egotistical and sensitive to criticizm Umar is also as well how ghetto and street he can become when angered as was revealed with his brief feud with Seti.

 

 

Agreed and with the powerless, puppet liberal negroes. I think Tariq is damaging his image big-time over the last week with this ADOS vs. FBA stuff. I know the black masses are DESPERATE for leadership so we give people a lot of leeway. But judging from comments on his Twitter and Youtube feeds, he's losing support for pettiness. But then again, the ADOS organization is also losing credibility in lieu of #ADOS our people.


Nothing to say but touche.
As much as I support the brother, I can't defend Tariq's behavior in this case because his feud with Tone is totally unnecessary.
If I may offer ANY kind of defense, I would say that Tariq's criticism of #ADOS leadership is coming from a strategic point of view where he felt.....as Neely Fuller Jr teaches...that once you label yourself an organization with leaders (Tone and Yvette) you are now targeted by the establishment therefore they should remain low key.......but HE'S not following his own advise by jumping off the FBA movement, lol.

 

 




Troy

 

What is the agenda white are using Blacklivesmatter and yvette to promote?


Institutionalizing homophilia as part of AfroAmerican culture.

I'm not sure if Yvette Carnell is actually being used by the establishment but she is an open lesbian with a Caucasian girlfriend so I don't think she's the best person to promote "traditonal" AfroAmerican values or promote ADOS culture. However BLM was established to aggressively promote homophilia in the AfroAmerican community on the street level by incorporating local activists into the movement and forcing them to agree with the "gay agenda" for funding.

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