AfroAmerican Sexuality

[Pioneer1]

 The following was a message I posted in another thread:  https://aalbc.com/tc/topic/4759-“we-must-patronize-black-owned-websites-or-lose-them”/
I didn't want to hijack the original topic of the thread so I decided to turn most of my response into a thread in and of itself and hopefully initiate discussion.





Del

Quote

This illustrates my point I made earlier. Troy has put the time in , dug into his pocket to do the research. And the only response is that sister looks fine.

 

What's wrong with giving AfroAmerican women compliments?

I thought the entire purpose of AfroAmericans networking with eachother was to strengthen our community and love eachother.
Sexuality is an EXPRESSION of Black love.

The work that Troy put in and my complimenting these women don't contradict eachother in any way, they are two different subjects.

 

 

 

 

 

A Discussion For Anyone

While I'm at it, let me say that my complimenting  them won't cause problems, but YOUR CRITICIZING my compliments will.
Let me explain..................

There is no established religion or morality in the AfroAmerican community or America itself for that matter, so to confront another man over his sexual behavior often times leads to more confusion, more conflict, and more divisions in the community.

 

I've seen arguments break out even among intelligent AfroAmericans at events simply because a SINGLE brother gave a couple of SINGLE sisters mild sexually based compliments like,
  "You ladies are sure looking good in those yellow dresses!  You're looking like dessert!"


 

 

Now look at this.....

1. Neither party (neither the man complimenting them nor the women he complimented) are married.
2. We supposedly live in a sexually free society.
3. All of them probably went to college where they were taught the Theory of Evolution and see humans as just highly evolved animals anyway.
 

...but another AfroAmerican man or woman felt they HAD A DUTY to confront the brother over the compliment as if he committed a crime.

Calling it "disrespectful".
Calling it "inappropriate"
Even talking about his mother saying  "What if one of them were YO MAMMA would you want somebody to....yada, yada, yada..."

And naturally as a man he becomes defensive and then an argument breaks out if not a fight because HIS pride is now hurt!

Why?  Because of MIS-education...that's why.

Because most AfroAmericans having been raised in this society were most likely given their morals and how to behave in public BY CAUCASIANS.
Either in school, on the job, in the offices of corporate America....it was usually a Caucasian telling them what was good, bad, appropriate to say, inappropriate to say.....but all of these morals were based on the Caucasian mind and how WHITE MEN behave and think...not Africans.

So because so many have been conditioned to behave based on CAUCASIAN morality, in their opinion...if you're not acting like a WHITE MAN.....you're not acting correctly!

So our people look at how Caucasian men act and use THEM as the standard!
Then what follows is a competition over who can act most like Caucasian men and whoever acts most like them is acting the "best" and those who DON'T act like him are often times criticized and maligned.
 

 

 

 

How do most Caucasian men behave?

Most Caucasian men generally do NOT flirt with women in public....out of fear.
They also generally do NOT believe in publicly expressing sexuality.....they prefer to express violence instead.
This is THEIR nature, but it's not ours.

We have a much stronger sexuality (both men and women) and that must be taken into consideration when examining our behavior.

Our nature as African men is to flirt with women in public and acknowledge their attractiveness and sexuality!
You find us (African males) doing this in just about EVERY nation and land you find us in despite the religion and culture governing that land. 
We do this NATURALLY and will continue to do it under natural circumstances.  Infact, schools and corporate America have to "train it out" of most Black men in order for them to fit in and get along with their Caucasian male colleagues.

This is also why  so many AfroAmerican men have a hard time fitting in with corporate America unless he's gay or has a weak sexuality.
Black men with the weakest sexuality tend to  "get along" better in Caucasian schools.
I didn't say get the best grades, I said "get along"......
Meaning they tend to have less conflict with their peers, because they don't have to worry about who these men are going to have sex with(which is the root of most of the conflicts so many brothers have with Caucasian men).

The natures of the African man and Caucasian man are different.
Not that one is better than the other.....just different...and those differences should be acknowledged and factored in when making society rules and laws.

We shouldn't expect African men to abide by rules and laws designed BY Caucasian men FOR Caucasian men.

If Caucasian men don't want to flirt with women, don't feel comfortable complimenting them, or don't even want to have sex with them....that's their nature and their business.
But we shouldn't imitate them but should hold fast to OUR nature which is SEXUAL and SENSUAL.
If we try to suppress that it WILL lead to problems in the community such as what you've been seeing over the past 40 years.
 

[Troy]

@Pioneer1 it depends upon the environment.

 

At work you would not say a woman looks fat for the same reason that you would not say she looks fine.  Both statements objectify women and are inappropriate today in a work environment.

 

Now on these forums or a nightclub or bar the rules are a little different -- say what you feel.  If you say something some disagrees with you'll be called on it.  

 

2 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Our nature as African men is to flirt with women in public and acknowledge their attractiveness and sexuality!

 

I believe this is more a function of culture and power imbalance. In places when men are more powerful than women you'll see men behaving in an overtly sexual manner to women.  

 

 

 

[Pioneer1]

Troy

 

 

At work you would not say a woman looks fat for the same reason that you would not say she looks fine.  Both statements objectify women and are inappropriate today in a work environment.

 

Actually at most jobs I DID flirt and tell certain women they were attractive and looked good.
But most of those jobs were BLUE-COLLAR type jobs like factories and warehouses where it was MORE acceptable than in the corporate environment.

 

Not sure if this is taught in college but on most blue-collar jobs and jobs that are more physical often times flirting and joking around helps time go by and makes people MORE comfortable so that they can tolerate the job better.  The physical demands and often shitty conditions of blue-collar work is stressful enough, joking around and flirting eases that which is why you used to see so much of it in those type of jobs.  

When you take THAT comfort away as they've been doing for the past 30 years....it makes that type of work less tolerable which is one of the reasons there is such a high turn-over rate in many factory, truck driver, and warehouse jobs.

 

 

 

 

I believe this is more a function of culture and power imbalance. In places when men are more powerful than women you'll see men behaving in an overtly sexual manner to women.  

 

Perhaps, I can't argue otherwise.

I've been on jobs where nearly all the managers were AfroAmerican men; and I've been on jobs where nearly all the managers were Caucasian men.
Both had power trips, but here's what I noticed.......

 

1. On the jobs where most of the managers were AfroAmerican men many they openly flirted with the women and sought sexual favors from them quite openly calling them baby and staring them up and down.....trying to play "sugar daddy".

 

2. On the jobs where most of the managers were Caucasian men, most did NOT flirt with women or go around calling them baby and looking at their titties.  But they would boss people around, work them long hours, run a much tighter shift, and expect people to work much harder than what was called for.
Always looking for ways to make people work harder for less money.
They also tended to embezzle  funds and shift around money more so than AfroAmerican managers.

 

What I learned from this was that having power allowed men to abuse people and exploit them in whatever way they DESIRED.
Which means.....

-If sex was what you desired.....then you'd exploit people for sexual favors.

-If violence was your thing....then you'd bully people around and intimidate them through violence.

-If bossing people around was your desire....then you'd become a control freak and micromanage people all day long.

 

Most (I say "most" because some did)  Caucasian men didn't use their power to exploit the women working under them for sexual purposes....not for moral and ethical reasons.....but simply because they had no desire to.  They exploited people and mistreated them in other ways.

[Troy]

Sure it seems to me that people flirt more openly on blue collar jobs.  That does not mean that people like it.  They tolerate it. 

 

I'm not saying the behavior is not present in a corporate environment, but most of the employees know enough to behave professionally. Maybe because they are better educated or come from a culture where the behavior is frowned upon.

 

 

Both environments (#1 and #2) sound like horrible environments for a woman (anyone) to work in.  I have never worked a job where people behaved that way.  But I've heard other describe this. People tolerate it because they need the job, other become quite adept of navigating these situation -- even taking advantage of them. Screwing a guy just to get ahead (pun not intended).

[Pioneer1]

Troy

 

 

Your comments are based off of the assumption that NONE of the women who are being flirted with at these jobs like or enjoy the attention.
It makes the assumption that ALL of the attention they get is unwanted by them, and thus is harassment.

And the fact that a very large percentage of women who find their husbands actually find them AT WORK.....contradicts this assumption.

[Delano]

Pioneer so you would be okay with gay men coming on you at work?

[Pioneer1]

Delano

 

 

Pioneer so you would be okay with gay men coming on you at work?

 

Good question.

 

No, because I'm not homosexual.

And if you are not homosexual, being hit on by a member of the same sex is not the same as being hit on by an unattractive member of the opposite sex.

Both may be unwanted, but one is generally regarded as more vile and intolerable than the other.
 

[Troy]

@Pioneer1 the scenarios you described are textbook sexual harassment, so yes my assumption is based upon the fact that mist women dislike this.

 

"Flirting" is not defined as "[seeking] sexual favors from them quite openly calling them baby and staring them up and down..."

 

It seems to me you don't know what flirting means.

 

I'm sure women find husbands at work but i doubt many choice someone who sexually harrassed them.

[Pioneer1]

Troy

 

 

I'm sure women find husbands at work but i doubt many choice someone who sexually harrassed them.

 

If I recall properly President Obama met Michelle at work and asked her out 3 or 4 times before she accepted.  (more times than I would.....lol).  Some would consider THAT harassment.  But they ended up married as a result.

 

Now, I didn't say sexual HARASSEMENT was ok.
It's not.

But as you pointed out there is a difference between harassment and flirting.

 

There are other factors and some legal lingo involved, but basically it's harassment when it's UNWANTED.

 

Again, your position and the position of many ASSUMES that women don't like ANY sexual attention at work and that ALL of it is inappropriate and unacceptable.

This assumption seems to de-humanize women in a way as if they are robots without mutual sexualized feelings.
 

[Troy]

Dude you are changing the argument as we go.

 

Sexual harassment is bad.

Expressing interest in someone that is reciprocated is good (though tricky in a professional work environment)

 

Also you like to use the words ANY and NEVER when your argument is weak, simply because it is difficult to prove that any situation involving humans will ALWAYS be true or NEVER to true.

[Pioneer1]

Troy

 

 

Sexual harassment is bad.

Expressing interest in someone that is reciprocated is good (though tricky in a professional work environment)

 

You'll get no arguments from ME over either one of those statements.
Where is the argument?

 

 

 

Also you like to use the words ANY and NEVER when your argument is weak, simply because it is difficult to prove that any situation involving humans will ALWAYS be true or NEVER to true.

 

Lol......
Man, what in the ever-changing WORLD are you talking about?
 

[Troy]

what I mean is that whenever you argument gets weak you start making absolute statement that are impossible to disagree with because you start using AWAYS or NEVER. For example;

 

6 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Again, your position and the position of many ASSUMES that women don't like ANY sexual attention at work and that ALL of it is inappropriate and unacceptable.

 

My position would never assume such a thing.  There are cases where a women get with abusive guys because of low self esteem and other issues.  So when you make this move by emphasizing words like ALL, NEVER, and ALWAYS it is a desperation move to preempt disagreement.

[Pioneer1]

Troy

 

 

Would it make you feel better if I tell you that your argument suggests that MOST women don't enjoy the attention they get from men who flirt with them and show them sexual attention?

Would that be a more accurate assessment?

 

You appear to have a low threshold for what is considered "harassment".
Like I said, Obama routinely badgered Michelle for a date and they were supposed to be professionals who knew the law.....lol.

 

I admit, she's got a nice body but I'm still trying to figure out what was SO irresistible about that woman that he just couldn't leave her alone.
 

[Troy]

@Pioneer1 you think all women have nice bodies. 

 

Obama does not strike me as shallow I'm sure he was attracted to her mind. 

 

 

 

[Delano]

On 8/21/2020 at 9:24 PM, Pioneer1 said:

Delano

 

 

Pioneer so you would be okay with gay men coming on you at work?

 

Good question.

 

No, because I'm not homosexual.

And if you are not homosexual, being hit on by a member of the same sex is not the same as being hit on by an unattractive member of the opposite sex.

Both may be unwanted, but one is generally regarded as more vile and intolerable than the other.
 

Not everyone shares your perspective, and you disrespect people by crossing their boundaries.

[Pioneer1]

Troy

 

 

you think all women have nice bodies.

I don't think SHE has a very nice body:

 

 

But that's MY opinion, other men may think differently.

 

Michelle however:



If her body was still this put together in her mid-50s....I could imagine how she was stacked when Barack first met her.





Del

 

Not everyone shares your perspective, and you disrespect people by crossing their boundaries.

 

Not everyone is the same height and weight as you are, and people won't like it if you walk up and slap them in the face.

 

Lol, your turn......
 

[Troy]

Is that emaciated stick figure a celebrity?

 

I "familiar" with 50ish women who are easily more physically attractive than Mrs. Obama. Michelle is average.

 

Hey going back to the photo you started the conversation with who, as sexist as it this might sound, would you pick first? I'm liking the sister in the far right 

[Delano]

15 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Del

 

Not everyone shares your perspective, and you disrespect people by crossing their boundaries.

 

Not everyone is the same height and weight as you are, and people won't like it if you walk up and slap them in the face.

 

Lol, your turn

Your response has made my point.

No further questions.

[Pioneer1]

Troy

 

 

I'm not sure who the skinny Caucasian woman is, I just pulled her picture as an example.

Hey going back to the photo you started the conversation with who, as sexist as it this might sound, would you pick first? I'm liking the sister in the far right 

That's who I'm thinking too.
She reminds me of a younger Lauryn Hill, lol.
With the one on the far left a close second.


Speaking of sexy women in their 50s, Kamala about 55 years old and ain't bad at all!




The fact that she didn't take her husband's last name is telling.
 

[Troy]

8 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

The fact that she didn't take her husband's last name is telling.

 

Not really her name is her brand.

 

I would take Michelle Obama over Kamala any day of the weak.  To put this into perspective, I find Kamala less appealing than Candice Owens.

 

 

[Pioneer1]

Troy

 

 

As far as I'm concerned BOTH of those sisters have nice bodies, but I'll go with Kamala simply because taking Michelle would be disrespectful to Barack who is another brother.....lol.
Kamala is married to a Caucasian, I don't feel so bad about taking her away from HIM because she shouldn't have gotten with him in the first place...lol.
I don't even know the dude's name.

 

 

 

 

To put this into perspective, I find Kamala less appealing than Candice Owens.

 

Damn.

Seems like a woman's POLITICS plays more of a factor into a woman's attractiveness to you than her looks or demeanor!



Now here's another one that I find VERY attractive despite disagreeing with her politics.
This is Mia Love, a Black Conservative former congresswoman who is actually from Haiti.............



She's skinny as hell, but I could gobble her UP for breakfast.....lol.  (figurative speaking ofcourse)

Are you telling me that you don't consider HER attractive?

[Troy]

Just based upon appearance. She's not the sister in yellow, but I can't judge looking at her head shot. I'm not a fan of that straight-haired wig.

[Pioneer1]

I've seen other pictures of her up close; it's not straight, it's just thinly braided.

It's a way a lot of sisters have figured out to make it LOOK like they have straight hair without the guilt that many get from actually straightening it.

As far as I'm concerned they are expressing the same "wanna be Caucasian" mentality...lol.
But hey...it still looks good.



Like I said, the girl's  got a very slim body.
But her face is pretty and like most Black Conservative women she ACTS (maybe it's just an act because she was partially raised in Brooklyn) feminine and professional which I find sexually attractive.



Being FEMININE goes a long way with me.
I'll overlook a lot of things as long as a woman act like a "lady".

Mia, Kamala, and Candace ALL have Caucasian husbands....but the feminine and professional way they carry themselves make them very attractive to me.

[Troy]

Yes she is attractive, but she also looks a lot younger than Michelle or Kamala, so it is not a fair comparison.

[Delano]

Why call it African American sexuality when it is just men commenting on what they find sexually attractive in women they haven't met?

[Pioneer1]

17 hours ago, Delano said:

Why call it African American sexuality when it is just men commenting on what they find sexually attractive in women they haven't met?

Who called it that?

[Delano]

Nevermind @Pioneer1 I have made a mistake.