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The Politics of Conspiracy


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Since when did Conspiracy Theory become a "right wing" thing?

For the past several years now and especially the past several months, the mainstream media has been conflating those who believe in conspiracies and those who question the "official" version of things with Trump Supporter and right-winger.
It seems as if they are trying to make both camps synonymous.


Even when it comes to the vax.
They seem to be ignoring the millions of Blk people who are suspicious of the vax and suggest that the ONLY people who are rejecting it are Trump supporters.

Minister Farrakhan and many others have warned Blk America about conspiracies for decades going back into the 60s, yet the media will ignore them and focus on a handful of MAGA hat wearing rednecks and call them the "truthers".

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I guess it depends on media you consume. There are conspiracy theorists on both the left, right, and in between. It is part of the human condition.

 

Most people don’t trust (or understand) science, as far as I can tell, as a result, we are primed for conspiracy theories. 
 

If you don’t understand science, on some level, you need conspiracies to make sense of the world.

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Nor does it help when so-called scientific experts routinely contradict themselves.

They announce that it's now safe for people to take off their masks and stop taking precautions.....then wonder why the virus is surging again.

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1 hour ago, Pioneer1 said:

Nor does it help when so-called scientific experts routinely contradict themselves.

 

Well the problem in cases like this is not science, it is the media and how people consume it.  There are wide variety of problems including the fact that media outlets often misreport science and give an equal sometimes a larger voice to people who are not well informed.  Social media has put this problem on steroids.   

 

Of course, from time to time as more information is discovered the scientific consensus will change -- as it should.  "... so-called scientific experts routinely contradict themselves..." is mistakes the process, because on the bleeding edge of any subject new information comes in all the time.

 

The Covid vaccines are safe; climate change is real, and humans are making it worse; the Earth revolves around the Sun. These things are not up for debate as far as the scientific community is concerned. Parisian politics, driven by greed and an ill-informed public, is the reason we are still debating these things.

 

In the case of Covid, a great many people have died and will continue to die unnecessarily.

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Couldn't most of these death have easily been prevented with common sense measures like reponsible behavior on the part of the citizens AND responsible guidelines on the part of government?


People can blame the public all they want for not following the rules, but when the CDC tells people to take their masks off because it's no longer necessary...in the MIDDLE of a Pandemic with a variant that is much more worse and deadly than the original virus....that seems irresponsible to me.

Perhaps it reasons like THIS, that so many people believe in conspiracies and don't trust those in authority.

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23 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

when the CDC tells people to take their masks off because it's no longer necessary..


see this is what i mean, where did you learn that the CDC had told people masks are no longer necessary? (This is question I’d like you yo answer please)  Have you visited their website or are you repeating something  from your social media feed?

 

 

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Troy


Lol, I got it from THEIR OWN website!

 

Quote


Fully vaccinated people can resume activities without wearing a mask or physically distancing, except where required by federal, state, local, tribal, or territorial laws, rules, and regulations, including local business and workplace guidance.


https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/fully-vaccinated.html 

 

 

 

The CDC has been telling vaccinated people for months now that it's ok for them to go in public without masks except where it's locally restricted.


All the while many of these maskless people are not only contracting but spreading the Delta variant around the nation.

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Yes but you are cherry picking; selectively using information that makes your point while ignoring information that runs counter to your point.  You also change your argue and setup straw men.

 

Again you @Pioneer1 wrote:

 

Nor does it help when so-called scientific experts routinely contradict themselves.
They announce that it's now safe for people to take off their masks and stop taking precautions.....then wonder why the virus is surging again.

 

There are a wide variety of instances when people should or should and should not wear masks.  Most notably are the differences between vaccinated and unvaccinated.  Many unvaccinated people can not be vaccinated -- no one is tell these folks to take off there masks. 

 

If the majority of scientists "contradict" themselves it is usually because they are in new territory and new information is coming in all the time. Contradicts ignores that fact that scientists are willing  -- indeed must change -- their position if new information comes in that say what they previously believed was inaccurate -- that is they way it works.  

 

So if some new mutation comes along that the current vaccinations offer no protection, the CDC will say put your masks back on -- That is not contradiction, right?

 

Nuance seems to be beyond your grasp, why does everything have to be binary with you?

 

cdc.jpg

 

 

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Troy

 

 

-I tell you that they are putting out CONTRADICTING and CONFLICTING information.

 

-You ask me for examples of this.

 

-I show them to you

 

-Then you accuse me of "cherry picking" the information that supports my argument instead of recognizing that if they weren't putting out CONTRADICTING information in the first place I wouldn't be able to use their own info against them.


There is nothing "nuanced" about telling vaccinated people that they are now safe and don't have to wear a mask or practice social distancing.
It's a plain clear statement.

 

In light of the Delta surge NOW they're realizing how erroneous that decision was.

 

Even the former Surgeon General Dr. Jerome Adams said they made a mistake telling people they could remove their masks.

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4 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

I tell you that they are putting out CONTRADICTING and CONFLICTING information.

 

I explained this an you have clearly rejected the response.
 

4 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Then you accuse me of "cherry picking" the information

 

Yes, I explained this too. You took information out of context to make you point.  Didn't the pretty graph I provided, from the CDC, help you see that yes they recommend that vaccinated people can go maskless while unvaccinated people should wears masks under certain circumstances.  Will this change?  Probably?  This is not a contradiction it is a reaction to different conditions.  Like, perhaps the Delta variant.

 

Again this is new territory and things can change quickly.  This is compounded by a wide variety of conspiracies being spread, partisan politics, and irresponsible behavior of the public.  What do you expect?

 

Do you expect the CDC to issue a single mandate that never changes over time despite the conditions?

 

It is easy sit back an question the CDC's reactions with the benefit of hindsight. I'm not sure if you understand how extremely difficult a situation we are in.  From the little I've seen of the CDC -- which I did not reference until this conversation I did they have done a great job of relating information, but you want to blame them for being contradictory. I don't see it. What is contradictory is our collective reaction so the pandemic.   

 

Some states have less than 50% of their adult population vaccinated!  You really believe this is because of contradictory information being put out by the CDC? Really?!

 

4 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Even the former Surgeon General Dr. Jerome Adams said they made a mistake telling people they could remove their masks.

 

Perhaps.  Assuming this is true, again, it is far easier to point out the mistakes of others after the fact.  No one (except you perhaps) expects a perfect reaction during this time of crisis.  Mistakes will be made. hopefully they will be learned from.

 

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Troy

Those are nice talking points, many of which I agree with.
But at the end of the day...you asked me for evidence of this contradiction and I GAVE it to you from the horse's mouth.
They don't even agree with eachother over the best procedure to stay safe.  So how can the public?

If DEFENDING their contradictions is your way of ACKNOWLEDGING that they made them....then I'll take this as you agreeing with me.
 

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Troy

I plead the fifth on all those questions...lol
I think you're trying to change the topic to distract from the fact that I proved my case quite well.

Have you ever admitted I was correct after initially labeling my position wrong?

 

 

 

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Here we go. 

 

As you decline to answer my questions consider your response to Del on this issue.

 

Again I'm not trying to change the subject, I'm trying to relate to you and why it is complex.

 

As far as admitting you were correct after initially saying you was wrong.  Yes, I recall you saying, during the early stages of the pandemic, that mask wearing was needed.  I initially disagreed, but discovered that I was working on stale information and changed my position without hesitation.

 

If I reacted the way you normally do I would have bitched about information changing and run around a exclaiming that no one knows what they are taking about.  Instead I knew we were in brand new territory and learning new things along the way.

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Troy

 

 

As you decline to answer my questions consider your response to Del on this issue.

 

Man, I asked Del ONE QUESTION very early on in the conversation and he refused to answer that single question.
 

You ask me SEVERAL questions, I answer them and even cite sources with my answers and instead of you being satisfied and moving forward with the conversation....you launch an INVESTIGATION to find some other related points you can disagree with me on.
 

You all but ignore the fact that I said and PROVED with their own  material that these so-called experts are putting out conflicting and contradicting information that is confusing the public.  Instead of acknowledging this as a fact, you want to change the focus from THAT to who got vaccinated and why or why not.

 

image.jpeg.cae9788ee3fd163656cfd72b18cfe5e2.jpeg

"Yeah...but did you get 'da shot though!
That's what we all wanna know!"

 

 

That would surely be the subject YOU would stay on for another 10 pages....if I were silly enough to go down that rabbit hole with you, lol.
 

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2 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

...these so-called experts are putting out conflicting and contradicting information that...

 

Why do you keep saying this when I've explained why this happens. You make it sound like the people at the CDC are being deliberately dishonest or don't know what they are doing...  which was actually your point that I continue to disagree with.

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Troy

 


Why do you keep saying this when I've explained why this happens. 

 

Because you keep trying to EXPLAIN it before you're even willing to AKCNOWLEDGE it.


I ask you did Johnny steal the car, and instead of saying "yes" or "no" you go into a tirade about how poor Johnny is, how he came from a dysfunctional home, how he needed a car to take his mother to work, ect.....everything but acknowledge the fact that Johnny STOLE the car...lol

 

It's the same with this.


Instead of acknowledging that the information IS conflicting and contradictory you are more focused on trying to explain away the contradictions.

I don't know for sure what the intentions of the CDC or any other organization I don't belong to is.  And it's not my focus.  My focus is on their ACTIONS and how they are causing more confusion.

Look at this article that just came out in Reuters today:


 

 

 

As Americans navigate conflicting COVID-19 mask advice, 'everyone is confused'

 

PRINCETON, N.J./SANTA MONICA, Calif. (Reuters) - A COVID-19 surge ignited in parts of the United States by the highly contagious Delta variant and vaccine hesitancy has led to new mask mandates and deep confusion among some people about which guidance to follow.

In Los Angeles County, leaders have reinstated an indoor mask mandate, even for the fully vaccinated. Officials in Houston and New Orleans also raised coronavirus alert levels this week and told people to mask up.

In Florida, however, Governor Ron DeSantis said on Thursday children will not be required to wear masks in school there this fall, arguing that "we need our kids to breathe." Hours later, White House press secretary Jen Psaki told reporters: "If I were a parent in Florida, that would be greatly concerning to me."

 

 

"Everyone is confused about what they should be doing," said Daniel Blacksheare, a 20-year-old in Santa Monica, California, who said he was infected twice last year. "I don't understand why we have to suddenly wear a mask again."

 

 

The county sheriff in Los Angeles County said his department will not enforce the measure.

The conflicting advice from officials at city, county, state and federal levels of government comes as hospital officials in the harder-hit states with lower vaccination rates are sounding the alarm about their systems being overwhelmed.

The seven-day average of new COVID-19 cases in the United States is up 53% over the previous week, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention on Thursday. The Delta variant makes up more than 80% of the new cases across the country.

Much of the guidance falls along the same political lines as earlier in the pandemic. Leaders in heavily Republican states generally eschew masks, and Democrats insist upon them.

Schools are a particular tension point nationwide. Children under age 12 are still not eligible for coronavirus vaccines, and many parents consider masks as the best remaining defense.

Yet as some areas return to the classroom in just a few weeks, there are wide divisions over whether children should be wearing masks in schools.

The American Academy of Pediatrics this week released updated recommendations for schools that included mask wearing for everyone over the age of 2, regardless of vaccination status. President Joe Biden said on Wednesday that unvaccinated children should wear masks in schools.

But the CDC on Thursday said it is not changing its mask guidance for schools, including that masks are only required for those over age 2 who have not been vaccinated. The CDC in May relaxed its guidance so that fully vaccinated people do not need to wear masks in most public spaces.

In Princeton, New Jersey, Ximena Skovron said she finds the dust-ups over masks and what the guidance actually is to be perplexing.

"I'm vaccinated, and the rules seem to change," she said. "But it's also inconsistent. You've got two grocery stores in town: one requires masks, one doesn't."

Skovron said she does not think states should reimpose mask mandates.

"Vaccines are readily available. The ability to protect yourself is there," she said. "If you refuse, you should assume the risk instead of imposing on the rest of society."

Her 6-year-old daughter will enter first grade this fall, and Skovron said she hopes the school does not require masks, citing the extremely low rate of serious COVID-19 incidence among small children.

"It just seems like such overkill for children to wear masks," she said.

But Melissa Riccobono, 44, of Lawrenceville, New Jersey, said she is pro-mask and thinks there should be mandates when and where necessary.

"If you're choosing not to vaccinate, that's your choice, and I'm fine with that – but it's not your choice whether to wear a mask," she said.

 

(Reporting by Tim Reid in Santa Monica, California, and Joseph Ax in Princeton, New Jersey; Additional reporting by Brad Brooks in Lubbock, Texas, and Carl O'Donnell in Washington; Editing by Colleen Jenkins and Grant McCool)

 

 

As Americans navigate conflicting COVID-19 mask advice, 'everyone is confused' (msn.com)

 

 

 

 

 

 

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What does this article prove?

 

We know people are confused.  We know partisan politics has contributed to the confusion.  We know the inconsistent compliance of business with the mandates also confuse people. We know people buy into conspiracy theories and refuse vaccinations and others are simply to tired or lazy to wear a mask.

 

None of this demonstrates any inconsistency with the CDC mandates that necessarily change over time.  Any reasonable person can see this.

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Troy

 

The article not only proves my point that the people are confused, but it also proves WHY they are confused.  
They are confused because of conflicting and contradicting information coming from so-called "expert" sources.

 

 

 

We know the inconsistent compliance of business with the mandates also confuse people. We know people buy into conspiracy theories and refuse vaccinations and others are simply to tired or lazy to wear a mask.

 None of this demonstrates any inconsistency with the CDC mandates


True.
Nor does it dismiss them either.

Pointing out the fact that a tenant doesn't pay their rent on time doesn't mean the apartment building is NOT a dump that is in sore need of proper maintenance.
Both are problems that need to be addressed.
 

People being lazy and businesses not enforcing the wearing of masks doesn't let the government off the hook for opening up and taking away mask mandates too early.

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